Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Eric Muehleisen]

There is a week long Playstation Vue trial you can do. They will charge you
full package price after the trial has ended. Make sure you stay on top of
that.

Playstation Vue service works as expected.The content looks good but is
laggy. Was too complicated for the wife, so we will wait another year until
these services mature.

On Sun, Oct 16, 2016 at 7:20 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> I am considering trying Sony on the Roku.  I already have Sling TV and
> have tried several others.
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 16, 2016 4:39 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
> I have my Roku attached to a switch that uses an NS2M to connect to our
> house WAP. Works fine.
>
> So maybe they have a crappy WiFi interface?
>
>
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
>
> On 10/16/2016 2:37 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>
> Roku on wireless is questionable, mine is wired,
>
> On Oct 16, 2016 4:07 PM, "Paul Stewart" <p...@paulstewart.org> wrote:
>
>> See that’s kinda funny for me… I have several Roku boxes and my
>> experience with all of them has been garbage….
>>
>> Netflix is probably the most dependable app but even with it I’ve had
>> some weird things go on … Plex I have issues with every so often (audio out
>> of sync for example).  When I try the same “programming” on Apple TV or PS4
>> I have zero issues.  It got to the point where I just packed them all up
>> into a box and threw them into a storage bin … only recently did I pull out
>> a Roku 2 and Roku 3 to test an app from a competitor offering IPTV via Roku
>> - it sucked badly too and other people trialling the service were having
>> issues too …
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 16, 2016, at 12:20 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Roku is just an amazing nail on the head device. I still run the old xd
>> it still updates, the apps still update, it's got the supported dev
>> channels. That's probably one of the most elegantly perfect pieces of
>> electronic in my home
>>
>> On Oct 16, 2016 10:49 AM, "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The problem with whatever app is on the TV (or if there is an app), is
>>> that if the TV is more than 1 year old, it will never be updated again.
>>>
>>> The Netflix app on our (now) 5 year old LG is a poor example of how
>>> Netflix should actually work (or any of the online streaming services for
>>> that matter). I didn't realize how poor until we installed a ROKU 2, and
>>> found out what a reasonably modern implementation looked like.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/15/2016 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>
>>> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the
>>> procedure to update the app on the smart TV?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of
>>> the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Paul Stewart]

I’m wondering why I didn’t think of that before :)  Thanks!


> On Oct 16, 2016, at 7:07 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
>  wrote:
> 
> Makes a huge difference
> 
> 
> On Oct 16, 2016 5:52 PM, "Paul Stewart"  > wrote:
> Hmm… now that’s interesting … let me try wired sometime just for fun ….
> 
> 
>> On Oct 16, 2016, at 6:39 PM, Bill Prince > > wrote:
>> 
>> I have my Roku attached to a switch that uses an NS2M to connect to our 
>> house WAP. Works fine.
>> 
>> So maybe they have a crappy WiFi interface?
>> 
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/16/2016 2:37 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>>> Roku on wireless is questionable, mine is wired,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Oct 16, 2016 4:07 PM, "Paul Stewart" >> > wrote:
>>> See that’s kinda funny for me… I have several Roku boxes and my experience 
>>> with all of them has been garbage….
>>> 
>>> Netflix is probably the most dependable app but even with it I’ve had some 
>>> weird things go on … Plex I have issues with every so often (audio out of 
>>> sync for example).  When I try the same “programming” on Apple TV or PS4 I 
>>> have zero issues.  It got to the point where I just packed them all up into 
>>> a box and threw them into a storage bin … only recently did I pull out a 
>>> Roku 2 and Roku 3 to test an app from a competitor offering IPTV via Roku - 
>>> it sucked badly too and other people trialling the service were having 
>>> issues too … 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Oct 16, 2016, at 12:20 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
 > wrote:
 
 Roku is just an amazing nail on the head device. I still run the old xd it 
 still updates, the apps still update, it's got the supported dev channels. 
 That's probably one of the most elegantly perfect pieces of electronic in 
 my home
 
 
 On Oct 16, 2016 10:49 AM, "Bill Prince" > wrote:
 The problem with whatever app is on the TV (or if there is an app), is 
 that if the TV is more than 1 year old, it will never be updated again.
 
 The Netflix app on our (now) 5 year old LG is a poor example of how 
 Netflix should actually work (or any of the online streaming services for 
 that matter). I didn't realize how poor until we installed a ROKU 2, and 
 found out what a reasonably modern implementation looked like.
 
 
 bp
 
 
 On 10/15/2016 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the 
> procedure to update the app on the smart TV?
> 
>  
> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of 
> the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
> 
 
>>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Chuck McCown]

I am considering trying Sony on the Roku.  I already have Sling TV and have 
tried several others.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 4:39 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

I have my Roku attached to a switch that uses an NS2M to connect to our house 
WAP. Works fine.

So maybe they have a crappy WiFi interface?



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/16/2016 2:37 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

  Roku on wireless is questionable, mine is wired,


  On Oct 16, 2016 4:07 PM, "Paul Stewart" <p...@paulstewart.org> wrote:

See that’s kinda funny for me… I have several Roku boxes and my experience 
with all of them has been garbage…. 

Netflix is probably the most dependable app but even with it I’ve had some 
weird things go on … Plex I have issues with every so often (audio out of sync 
for example).  When I try the same “programming” on Apple TV or PS4 I have zero 
issues.  It got to the point where I just packed them all up into a box and 
threw them into a storage bin … only recently did I pull out a Roku 2 and Roku 
3 to test an app from a competitor offering IPTV via Roku - it sucked badly too 
and other people trialling the service were having issues too … 


  On Oct 16, 2016, at 12:20 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
<thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

  Roku is just an amazing nail on the head device. I still run the old xd 
it still updates, the apps still update, it's got the supported dev channels. 
That's probably one of the most elegantly perfect pieces of electronic in my 
home


  On Oct 16, 2016 10:49 AM, "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:

The problem with whatever app is on the TV (or if there is an app), is 
that if the TV is more than 1 year old, it will never be updated again.

The Netflix app on our (now) 5 year old LG is a poor example of how 
Netflix should actually work (or any of the online streaming services for that 
matter). I didn't realize how poor until we installed a ROKU 2, and found out 
what a reasonably modern implementation looked like.



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/15/2016 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the 
procedure to update the app on the smart TV?



  Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot 
of the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Makes a huge difference

On Oct 16, 2016 5:52 PM, "Paul Stewart"  wrote:

> Hmm… now that’s interesting … let me try wired sometime just for fun ….
>
>
> On Oct 16, 2016, at 6:39 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> I have my Roku attached to a switch that uses an NS2M to connect to our
> house WAP. Works fine.
>
> So maybe they have a crappy WiFi interface?
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 10/16/2016 2:37 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>
> Roku on wireless is questionable, mine is wired,
>
> On Oct 16, 2016 4:07 PM, "Paul Stewart"  wrote:
>
>> See that’s kinda funny for me… I have several Roku boxes and my
>> experience with all of them has been garbage….
>>
>> Netflix is probably the most dependable app but even with it I’ve had
>> some weird things go on … Plex I have issues with every so often (audio out
>> of sync for example).  When I try the same “programming” on Apple TV or PS4
>> I have zero issues.  It got to the point where I just packed them all up
>> into a box and threw them into a storage bin … only recently did I pull out
>> a Roku 2 and Roku 3 to test an app from a competitor offering IPTV via Roku
>> - it sucked badly too and other people trialling the service were having
>> issues too …
>>
>>
>> On Oct 16, 2016, at 12:20 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Roku is just an amazing nail on the head device. I still run the old xd
>> it still updates, the apps still update, it's got the supported dev
>> channels. That's probably one of the most elegantly perfect pieces of
>> electronic in my home
>>
>> On Oct 16, 2016 10:49 AM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:
>>
>>> The problem with whatever app is on the TV (or if there is an app), is
>>> that if the TV is more than 1 year old, it will never be updated again.
>>>
>>> The Netflix app on our (now) 5 year old LG is a poor example of how
>>> Netflix should actually work (or any of the online streaming services for
>>> that matter). I didn't realize how poor until we installed a ROKU 2, and
>>> found out what a reasonably modern implementation looked like.
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/15/2016 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>
>>> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the
>>> procedure to update the app on the smart TV?
>>>
>>>
>>> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of
>>> the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Paul Stewart]

Hmm… now that’s interesting … let me try wired sometime just for fun ….


> On Oct 16, 2016, at 6:39 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> I have my Roku attached to a switch that uses an NS2M to connect to our house 
> WAP. Works fine.
> 
> So maybe they have a crappy WiFi interface?
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
> On 10/16/2016 2:37 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>> Roku on wireless is questionable, mine is wired,
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 16, 2016 4:07 PM, "Paul Stewart" > > wrote:
>> See that’s kinda funny for me… I have several Roku boxes and my experience 
>> with all of them has been garbage….
>> 
>> Netflix is probably the most dependable app but even with it I’ve had some 
>> weird things go on … Plex I have issues with every so often (audio out of 
>> sync for example).  When I try the same “programming” on Apple TV or PS4 I 
>> have zero issues.  It got to the point where I just packed them all up into 
>> a box and threw them into a storage bin … only recently did I pull out a 
>> Roku 2 and Roku 3 to test an app from a competitor offering IPTV via Roku - 
>> it sucked badly too and other people trialling the service were having 
>> issues too … 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 16, 2016, at 12:20 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
>>> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Roku is just an amazing nail on the head device. I still run the old xd it 
>>> still updates, the apps still update, it's got the supported dev channels. 
>>> That's probably one of the most elegantly perfect pieces of electronic in 
>>> my home
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Oct 16, 2016 10:49 AM, "Bill Prince" >> > wrote:
>>> The problem with whatever app is on the TV (or if there is an app), is that 
>>> if the TV is more than 1 year old, it will never be updated again.
>>> 
>>> The Netflix app on our (now) 5 year old LG is a poor example of how Netflix 
>>> should actually work (or any of the online streaming services for that 
>>> matter). I didn't realize how poor until we installed a ROKU 2, and found 
>>> out what a reasonably modern implementation looked like.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> bp
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 10/15/2016 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
 In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the 
 procedure to update the app on the smart TV?
 
  
 Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of the 
 early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
 
>>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Paul Stewart]

Yeah I’m unique as I’m told often haha ;)

For content like Netflix, it’s all on-net via cache clusters … Plex is local 
via wifi (and it’s not wifi - I tested it thoroughly to make sure) …. the other 
app (IPTV from competitor) they say they have very few issues but in their 
customer forums it seems like a different story …. 

Maybe I need to factory default them or something - they are running latest 
software etc but maybe something over time is causing the issues … have no idea

Cheers,
Paul


> On Oct 16, 2016, at 5:34 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:
> 
> How close are you, network wise, to the various CDNs that these would use?
> 
> You are literally the first person I have talked to that had problems with a 
> roku.
> 
> 
> On Oct 16, 2016 4:07 PM, "Paul Stewart"  > wrote:
> See that’s kinda funny for me… I have several Roku boxes and my experience 
> with all of them has been garbage….
> 
> Netflix is probably the most dependable app but even with it I’ve had some 
> weird things go on … Plex I have issues with every so often (audio out of 
> sync for example).  When I try the same “programming” on Apple TV or PS4 I 
> have zero issues.  It got to the point where I just packed them all up into a 
> box and threw them into a storage bin … only recently did I pull out a Roku 2 
> and Roku 3 to test an app from a competitor offering IPTV via Roku - it 
> sucked badly too and other people trialling the service were having issues 
> too … 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 16, 2016, at 12:20 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
>> > wrote:
>> 
>> Roku is just an amazing nail on the head device. I still run the old xd it 
>> still updates, the apps still update, it's got the supported dev channels. 
>> That's probably one of the most elegantly perfect pieces of electronic in my 
>> home
>> 
>> 
>> On Oct 16, 2016 10:49 AM, "Bill Prince" > > wrote:
>> The problem with whatever app is on the TV (or if there is an app), is that 
>> if the TV is more than 1 year old, it will never be updated again.
>> 
>> The Netflix app on our (now) 5 year old LG is a poor example of how Netflix 
>> should actually work (or any of the online streaming services for that 
>> matter). I didn't realize how poor until we installed a ROKU 2, and found 
>> out what a reasonably modern implementation looked like.
>> 
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>> 
>> On 10/15/2016 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the procedure 
>>> to update the app on the smart TV?
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of the 
>>> early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
>>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Bill Prince]

I have my Roku attached to a switch that uses an NS2M to connect to our 
house WAP. Works fine.


So maybe they have a crappy WiFi interface?


bp


On 10/16/2016 2:37 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:


Roku on wireless is questionable, mine is wired,


On Oct 16, 2016 4:07 PM, "Paul Stewart" > wrote:


See that’s kinda funny for me… I have several Roku boxes and my
experience with all of them has been garbage….

Netflix is probably the most dependable app but even with it I’ve
had some weird things go on … Plex I have issues with every so
often (audio out of sync for example).  When I try the same
“programming” on Apple TV or PS4 I have zero issues.  It got to
the point where I just packed them all up into a box and threw
them into a storage bin … only recently did I pull out a Roku 2
and Roku 3 to test an app from a competitor offering IPTV via Roku
- it sucked badly too and other people trialling the service were
having issues too …



On Oct 16, 2016, at 12:20 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm
> wrote:

Roku is just an amazing nail on the head device. I still run the
old xd it still updates, the apps still update, it's got the
supported dev channels. That's probably one of the most elegantly
perfect pieces of electronic in my home


On Oct 16, 2016 10:49 AM, "Bill Prince" > wrote:

The problem with whatever app is on the TV (or if there is an
app), is that if the TV is more than 1 year old, it will
never be updated again.

The Netflix app on our (now) 5 year old LG is a poor example
of how Netflix should actually work (or any of the online
streaming services for that matter). I didn't realize how
poor until we installed a ROKU 2, and found out what a
reasonably modern implementation looked like.


bp


On 10/15/2016 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


In your experience, does it help if the customer goes
through the procedure to update the app on the smart TV?

Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I
know a lot of the early ones also didn’t seem to play well
with certain WiFi routers.

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Mike Hammett]

If it's on the network he works for, it's substantial. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 4:34:17 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 


How close are you, network wise, to the various CDNs that these would use? 
You are literally the first person I have talked to that had problems with a 
roku. 


On Oct 16, 2016 4:07 PM, "Paul Stewart" < p...@paulstewart.org > wrote: 



See that’s kinda funny for me… I have several Roku boxes and my experience with 
all of them has been garbage…. 


Netflix is probably the most dependable app but even with it I’ve had some 
weird things go on … Plex I have issues with every so often (audio out of sync 
for example). When I try the same “programming” on Apple TV or PS4 I have zero 
issues. It got to the point where I just packed them all up into a box and 
threw them into a storage bin … only recently did I pull out a Roku 2 and Roku 
3 to test an app from a competitor offering IPTV via Roku - it sucked badly too 
and other people trialling the service were having issues too … 







On Oct 16, 2016, at 12:20 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com 
> wrote: 


Roku is just an amazing nail on the head device. I still run the old xd it 
still updates, the apps still update, it's got the supported dev channels. 
That's probably one of the most elegantly perfect pieces of electronic in my 
home 


On Oct 16, 2016 10:49 AM, "Bill Prince" < part15...@gmail.com > wrote: 




The problem with whatever app is on the TV (or if there is an app), is that if 
the TV is more than 1 year old, it will never be updated again. 
The Netflix app on our (now) 5 year old LG is a poor example of how Netflix 
should actually work (or any of the online streaming services for that matter). 
I didn't realize how poor until we installed a ROKU 2, and found out what a 
reasonably modern implementation looked like. 

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> 
On 10/15/2016 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote: 



In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the procedure to 
update the app on the smart TV? 

Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung. I know a lot of the early 
ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers. 

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Roku on wireless is questionable, mine is wired,

On Oct 16, 2016 4:07 PM, "Paul Stewart"  wrote:

> See that’s kinda funny for me… I have several Roku boxes and my experience
> with all of them has been garbage….
>
> Netflix is probably the most dependable app but even with it I’ve had some
> weird things go on … Plex I have issues with every so often (audio out of
> sync for example).  When I try the same “programming” on Apple TV or PS4 I
> have zero issues.  It got to the point where I just packed them all up into
> a box and threw them into a storage bin … only recently did I pull out a
> Roku 2 and Roku 3 to test an app from a competitor offering IPTV via Roku -
> it sucked badly too and other people trialling the service were having
> issues too …
>
>
> On Oct 16, 2016, at 12:20 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Roku is just an amazing nail on the head device. I still run the old xd it
> still updates, the apps still update, it's got the supported dev channels.
> That's probably one of the most elegantly perfect pieces of electronic in
> my home
>
> On Oct 16, 2016 10:49 AM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:
>
>> The problem with whatever app is on the TV (or if there is an app), is
>> that if the TV is more than 1 year old, it will never be updated again.
>>
>> The Netflix app on our (now) 5 year old LG is a poor example of how
>> Netflix should actually work (or any of the online streaming services for
>> that matter). I didn't realize how poor until we installed a ROKU 2, and
>> found out what a reasonably modern implementation looked like.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 10/15/2016 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the
>> procedure to update the app on the smart TV?
>>
>>
>>
>> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of
>> the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Josh Reynolds]

How close are you, network wise, to the various CDNs that these would use?

You are literally the first person I have talked to that had problems with
a roku.

On Oct 16, 2016 4:07 PM, "Paul Stewart"  wrote:

> See that’s kinda funny for me… I have several Roku boxes and my experience
> with all of them has been garbage….
>
> Netflix is probably the most dependable app but even with it I’ve had some
> weird things go on … Plex I have issues with every so often (audio out of
> sync for example).  When I try the same “programming” on Apple TV or PS4 I
> have zero issues.  It got to the point where I just packed them all up into
> a box and threw them into a storage bin … only recently did I pull out a
> Roku 2 and Roku 3 to test an app from a competitor offering IPTV via Roku -
> it sucked badly too and other people trialling the service were having
> issues too …
>
>
> On Oct 16, 2016, at 12:20 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Roku is just an amazing nail on the head device. I still run the old xd it
> still updates, the apps still update, it's got the supported dev channels.
> That's probably one of the most elegantly perfect pieces of electronic in
> my home
>
> On Oct 16, 2016 10:49 AM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:
>
>> The problem with whatever app is on the TV (or if there is an app), is
>> that if the TV is more than 1 year old, it will never be updated again.
>>
>> The Netflix app on our (now) 5 year old LG is a poor example of how
>> Netflix should actually work (or any of the online streaming services for
>> that matter). I didn't realize how poor until we installed a ROKU 2, and
>> found out what a reasonably modern implementation looked like.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 10/15/2016 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the
>> procedure to update the app on the smart TV?
>>
>>
>>
>> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of
>> the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Paul Stewart]

See that’s kinda funny for me… I have several Roku boxes and my experience with 
all of them has been garbage….

Netflix is probably the most dependable app but even with it I’ve had some 
weird things go on … Plex I have issues with every so often (audio out of sync 
for example).  When I try the same “programming” on Apple TV or PS4 I have zero 
issues.  It got to the point where I just packed them all up into a box and 
threw them into a storage bin … only recently did I pull out a Roku 2 and Roku 
3 to test an app from a competitor offering IPTV via Roku - it sucked badly too 
and other people trialling the service were having issues too … 


> On Oct 16, 2016, at 12:20 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
>  wrote:
> 
> Roku is just an amazing nail on the head device. I still run the old xd it 
> still updates, the apps still update, it's got the supported dev channels. 
> That's probably one of the most elegantly perfect pieces of electronic in my 
> home
> 
> 
> On Oct 16, 2016 10:49 AM, "Bill Prince"  > wrote:
> The problem with whatever app is on the TV (or if there is an app), is that 
> if the TV is more than 1 year old, it will never be updated again.
> 
> The Netflix app on our (now) 5 year old LG is a poor example of how Netflix 
> should actually work (or any of the online streaming services for that 
> matter). I didn't realize how poor until we installed a ROKU 2, and found out 
> what a reasonably modern implementation looked like.
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
> On 10/15/2016 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the procedure 
>> to update the app on the smart TV?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of the 
>> early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
>> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Bill Prince]

It was animated on my end.


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/15/2016 5:24 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Why didn’t the animated GIF come through as animated?  Is it because I 
sent it embedded rather than attached?  But I’ve done that with 
animated emoticons before and it worked.  Is it because I’m using 
Outlook now?


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 7:16 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

LOL

On Oct 15, 2016 6:51 PM, "Robert Andrews" <i...@avantwireless.com 
<mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:


As the original webmaster at netscape, thanks for the memories

On 10/15/2016 10:55 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Yep, here’s your video:

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:48 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”.
Talk about a
confusing moment...

*From:*CBB - Jay Fuller

*Sent:*Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> <mailto:af@afmug.com
    <mailto:af@afmug.com>>

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update. It is an
earlier
Netflix interface but I actually like it better than the modern
interface.

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>>
To: <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> <mailto:af@afmug.com
<mailto:af@afmug.com>>>
Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM

In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the
procedure to update the app on the smart TV?

Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung. I know a
lot of
the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi
routers.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Joe Novak
*Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> <mailto:af@afmug.com
<mailto:af@afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the
netflix 'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The
Roku's and
streaming boxes usually have perfect support for it. Hulu
seems to do
good too. Direct TV has shit poor bandwidth management, and
poor peering
as far as we could tell.

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com>
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>> wrote:

The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify
the video is
actually stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying
it took a
long time to buffer but was fine once the picture
appeared.  That’s
what got me to thinking the latest complaint was
impatience with how
long it took before the video started playing, not
problems while it
was playing.  The next challenge is to find out what streaming
service he is using, people tend to call them all
“Netflix”.  But I
rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because
Netflix can
switch stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix
and it is
stopping and starting, in my experience it’s usually
something other
than just slow Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out, or
packet loss, or
a Windows 10 download overloading the connection.

We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in
front of
their “smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what
streaming
service, but there is only one answer if it doesn’t work
like old
fashioned TV – your Internet is too slow.  I had a
customer call
because she couldn’t watch an online class on her computer
which was
telling her “you  are  not connected to a network”, and
there was an
airplane symbol in the lower right.  Tech support for the
online
college told her that meant her Internet

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Ken Hohhof]

This article says you can steam Vue on a Roku or Fire TV, but it says the Roku 
app is inferior.  If you read the linked article, the author is complaining 
about the user interface, not the video quality, saying Sony used a standard 
Roku template rather than writing the app from scratch.

 

http://www.techhive.com/article/3047812/streaming-services/playstation-vue-faq-everything-to-know-about-sony-s-cable-tv-alternative.html

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 3:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

So far Sony PS Vue or whatever it is called is the only OTC that has Discovery 
and related channels.  

 

From: Josh Reynolds 

Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 2:17 PM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

Roku and FireTV are the best, by far. Roku has more channels, firetv has more 
app capability (android).

AppleTV streams like shit compared to those two.

 

On Oct 16, 2016 11:20 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com 
<mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Roku is just an amazing nail on the head device. I still run the old xd it 
still updates, the apps still update, it's got the supported dev channels. 
That's probably one of the most elegantly perfect pieces of electronic in my 
home

 

On Oct 16, 2016 10:49 AM, "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com 
<mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote:

The problem with whatever app is on the TV (or if there is an app), is that if 
the TV is more than 1 year old, it will never be updated again.

The Netflix app on our (now) 5 year old LG is a poor example of how Netflix 
should actually work (or any of the online streaming services for that matter). 
I didn't realize how poor until we installed a ROKU 2, and found out what a 
reasonably modern implementation looked like.

 

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
 

On 10/15/2016 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the procedure to 
update the app on the smart TV?

 

Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of the 
early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.

 

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Yeah, Sony and their record of data protection. Not a chance in hell I'll
tie anything about me with anything of theirs

On Oct 16, 2016 3:32 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> So far Sony PS Vue or whatever it is called is the only OTC that has
> Discovery and related channels.
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 16, 2016 2:17 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
> Roku and FireTV are the best, by far. Roku has more channels, firetv has
> more app capability (android).
>
> AppleTV streams like shit compared to those two.
>
> On Oct 16, 2016 11:20 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Roku is just an amazing nail on the head device. I still run the old xd
>> it still updates, the apps still update, it's got the supported dev
>> channels. That's probably one of the most elegantly perfect pieces of
>> electronic in my home
>>
>> On Oct 16, 2016 10:49 AM, "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The problem with whatever app is on the TV (or if there is an app), is
>>> that if the TV is more than 1 year old, it will never be updated again.
>>>
>>> The Netflix app on our (now) 5 year old LG is a poor example of how
>>> Netflix should actually work (or any of the online streaming services for
>>> that matter). I didn't realize how poor until we installed a ROKU 2, and
>>> found out what a reasonably modern implementation looked like.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/15/2016 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>
>>> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the
>>> procedure to update the app on the smart TV?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of
>>> the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
>>>
>>>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Josh Reynolds]

There's an android discovery app.

On Oct 16, 2016 3:32 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> So far Sony PS Vue or whatever it is called is the only OTC that has
> Discovery and related channels.
>
> *From:* Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 16, 2016 2:17 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
> Roku and FireTV are the best, by far. Roku has more channels, firetv has
> more app capability (android).
>
> AppleTV streams like shit compared to those two.
>
> On Oct 16, 2016 11:20 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Roku is just an amazing nail on the head device. I still run the old xd
>> it still updates, the apps still update, it's got the supported dev
>> channels. That's probably one of the most elegantly perfect pieces of
>> electronic in my home
>>
>> On Oct 16, 2016 10:49 AM, "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The problem with whatever app is on the TV (or if there is an app), is
>>> that if the TV is more than 1 year old, it will never be updated again.
>>>
>>> The Netflix app on our (now) 5 year old LG is a poor example of how
>>> Netflix should actually work (or any of the online streaming services for
>>> that matter). I didn't realize how poor until we installed a ROKU 2, and
>>> found out what a reasonably modern implementation looked like.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/15/2016 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>
>>> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the
>>> procedure to update the app on the smart TV?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of
>>> the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
>>>
>>>
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[chuck]

So far Sony PS Vue or whatever it is called is the only OTC that has Discovery 
and related channels.  

From: Josh Reynolds 
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 2:17 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

Roku and FireTV are the best, by far. Roku has more channels, firetv has more 
app capability (android).

AppleTV streams like shit compared to those two.


On Oct 16, 2016 11:20 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

  Roku is just an amazing nail on the head device. I still run the old xd it 
still updates, the apps still update, it's got the supported dev channels. 
That's probably one of the most elegantly perfect pieces of electronic in my 
home


  On Oct 16, 2016 10:49 AM, "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> wrote:

The problem with whatever app is on the TV (or if there is an app), is that 
if the TV is more than 1 year old, it will never be updated again.

The Netflix app on our (now) 5 year old LG is a poor example of how Netflix 
should actually work (or any of the online streaming services for that matter). 
I didn't realize how poor until we installed a ROKU 2, and found out what a 
reasonably modern implementation looked like.



bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 10/15/2016 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the 
procedure to update the app on the smart TV?



  Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of 
the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Josh Reynolds]

Roku and FireTV are the best, by far. Roku has more channels, firetv has
more app capability (android).

AppleTV streams like shit compared to those two.

On Oct 16, 2016 11:20 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
wrote:

> Roku is just an amazing nail on the head device. I still run the old xd it
> still updates, the apps still update, it's got the supported dev channels.
> That's probably one of the most elegantly perfect pieces of electronic in
> my home
>
> On Oct 16, 2016 10:49 AM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:
>
>> The problem with whatever app is on the TV (or if there is an app), is
>> that if the TV is more than 1 year old, it will never be updated again.
>>
>> The Netflix app on our (now) 5 year old LG is a poor example of how
>> Netflix should actually work (or any of the online streaming services for
>> that matter). I didn't realize how poor until we installed a ROKU 2, and
>> found out what a reasonably modern implementation looked like.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 10/15/2016 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the
>> procedure to update the app on the smart TV?
>>
>>
>>
>> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of
>> the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
>>
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Mike Hammett]

AFAIK. It is Level 3 now and I seem to recall it being Level 3 then too. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Joe Novak" <jno...@lrcomm.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2016 11:47:50 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 


Have they been using them since they started the streaming product? 


On Oct 16, 2016 11:44 AM, "Mike Hammett" < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




DirecTV's CDN is Level 3. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Joe Novak" < jno...@lrcomm.com > 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59:14 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 


In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix 
'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming boxes 
usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good too. Direct TV has 
shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far as we could tell. 


On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 





The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is actually 
stopping and starting. Previously he was saying it took a long time to buffer 
but was fine once the picture appeared. That’s what got me to thinking the 
latest complaint was impatience with how long it took before the video started 
playing, not problems while it was playing. The next challenge is to find out 
what streaming service he is using, people tend to call them all “Netflix”. But 
I rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because Netflix can switch 
stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix and it is stopping and 
starting, in my experience it’s usually something other than just slow 
Internet. Like WiFi dropping out, or packet loss, or a Windows 10 download 
overloading the connection. 

We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of their 
“smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming service, but there 
is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old fashioned TV – your Internet is 
too slow. I had a customer call because she couldn’t watch an online class on 
her computer which was telling her “you are not connected to a network”, and 
there was an airplane symbol in the lower right. Tech support for the online 
college told her that meant her Internet was too slow. I was tempted to tell 
her the airplane symbol actually meant her Internet was really fast (it’s 
flying), otherwise it would show a car or a turtle. 




From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 




I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering. 






From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 8:34 PM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 



But that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m wondering if when a customer talks 
about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for the video to start 
playing. 

And maybe I’m confused because I assume everyone is using Netflix. And I’m 
pretty sure Netflix starts the stream at a low quality so it starts quickly, 
and then ramps up the quality as the buffer fills, since their technology 
allows changing the stream quality on the fly. Other services like maybe Hulu 
and Amazon Prime may behave differently. 

Also with my default assumption that people are using Netflix, I don’t expect 
rebuffering because it’s been years since Netflix needed to stop and rebuffer 
at a lower stream rate, I think they do that pretty seamlessly now. 


From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard 
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 9:09 PM 
To: af < af@afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 



Well, people certainly want connections that support multiple streams. Paying 
for it, I'm not so sure about... at least around these parts. 



On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke < eric.kuh...@gmail.com > wrote: 




Have you ever seen a 1080p youtube video load on a 1GbE active-E FTTH ISP that 
has direct peering with Google from a router 2.5ms upstream? It's a beautiful 
thing. 
People will absolutely pay for connections that support multiple streams, take 
a typical family of 4 or 5 people with kids that want to watch videos on 
tablets simultaneously... 





On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




When people say their video is “buffering”, I assume they mean re-buffering, 
where the video stops and starts. 

I’m starting to wonder if some people are referring to the delay before the 
video starts playing. Is this a thing? And do people pay for faster Internet 
just to make the video start faster, like cut 15-20 seconds down to 5 or 10 
seconds? 

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Mike Hammett]

Better antenna technology. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Nate Burke" <n...@blastcomm.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 4:26:47 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 

I think customers for the most part still associate 'big' and 'heavy' with 
Quality. I was just a customers house this week where he took out a 951 I was 
providing (for free) to put in a giant linksys $300 router. But now he says his 
wifi works down the street and around the corner. I find that hard to believe, 
but it's physically much bigger than the 951, so it must be much better... 
Maybe we should start going back to like 8 pound power bricks the size of a 
desktop computer. Then our internet would be better than comcast. 




On 10/15/2016 3:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: 




Pretty much the same here. Lease a managed router from us for $5/month, or if 
you buy one at the store head for the $70 to $100 price range. Less they 
probably cut corners, more and you’re probably wasting money. 

Our leased routers are Mikrotik 951G, we just got some hAP AC in to consider as 
a dual band AC solution. We like the ability to manage the Mikrotik routers but 
they don’t really give us a solution for customers who want a fancy router, or 
to take management to the next level (application level QoS, customer 
dashboard). The answer for that is probably Calix, but our customer base mostly 
shops at WalMart and Dollar General, I’m not sure we have enough demand for a 
Calix class router. There are a few who would want something like that, but 
it’s probably well under 5%, unless we subsidize them. 

I only push the leased routers so hard, actually I think it’s a better deal for 
the customer than for us, if they want to buy a router and hope it lasts 5 
years they are welcome to. Unfortunately this means the people taking the 
leased router may be the people who just don’t have the money to buy a router 
we’ll be shutting them off for nonpayment in a couple months and trying to get 
our router back. 



From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Joe Novak 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:31 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 


What are you recommending on routers now Ken? 



Our spiel usually includes netgear and spend no more then 100$. Especially for 
the people on the 3mbit and 5mbit plans. We've been doing good at converting 
these people that don't want to mess with it to our rental router. (Zyxel 
2.4ghz) for 5/month. 



On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




I’m still waiting to run into a customer with a media library to justify the 
$400 WiFi router some kid in the store sold them so they could have 
multigigabit WiFi in their house. Cuz if your only source of content is your 25 
Mbps Internet connection, I’m missing why you need that AC5300 router. And 
honestly, if I had a media center with locally stored content streaming 4K 
video around the house, I’d figure a way to run a cable to the big screens. Why 
spend all that money and then cheap out by using WiFi, especially since that 60 
inch TV isn’t exactly portable unless it’s on wheels. 


From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Joe Novak 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:09 PM 



To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 




It makes me sad that Kodi got associated with all of the nonsense. It's a 
beautiful media center front end. I actually just got a 'NexBox' in that runs 
android, outputs 4K, which I can't do with my current media center setup. I've 
been excited to play around with it. 







On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




And the people with the Kodi boxes, usually the people who barely know how to 
use a computer, are they answering ads in the back of magazines or something? 
They seem to expect something like the analog TV converter boxes, you plug it 
in and get free live TV. Must be legal because I bought a box. And for tech 
support, call your ISP. 


From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:54 PM 



To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 



Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating right now. I won't 
offer any support for any issue unless it's a vanilla stick. These things are 
blatantly illegal like the black box descramblers for satellite days. 
People are dropping malicious operating systems in the middle of their trusted 
network left and right for "free" tv. God only knows what iot bot net activity 
is also causing their xhamster buffering 



On Oct 15, 2016 12:48 PM, "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a 
confusin

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Mike Hammett]

The same reason TV sticks suck is why the 951 sucks. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Nate Burke" <n...@blastcomm.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 4:26:47 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 

I think customers for the most part still associate 'big' and 'heavy' with 
Quality. I was just a customers house this week where he took out a 951 I was 
providing (for free) to put in a giant linksys $300 router. But now he says his 
wifi works down the street and around the corner. I find that hard to believe, 
but it's physically much bigger than the 951, so it must be much better... 
Maybe we should start going back to like 8 pound power bricks the size of a 
desktop computer. Then our internet would be better than comcast. 




On 10/15/2016 3:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: 




Pretty much the same here. Lease a managed router from us for $5/month, or if 
you buy one at the store head for the $70 to $100 price range. Less they 
probably cut corners, more and you’re probably wasting money. 

Our leased routers are Mikrotik 951G, we just got some hAP AC in to consider as 
a dual band AC solution. We like the ability to manage the Mikrotik routers but 
they don’t really give us a solution for customers who want a fancy router, or 
to take management to the next level (application level QoS, customer 
dashboard). The answer for that is probably Calix, but our customer base mostly 
shops at WalMart and Dollar General, I’m not sure we have enough demand for a 
Calix class router. There are a few who would want something like that, but 
it’s probably well under 5%, unless we subsidize them. 

I only push the leased routers so hard, actually I think it’s a better deal for 
the customer than for us, if they want to buy a router and hope it lasts 5 
years they are welcome to. Unfortunately this means the people taking the 
leased router may be the people who just don’t have the money to buy a router 
we’ll be shutting them off for nonpayment in a couple months and trying to get 
our router back. 



From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Joe Novak 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:31 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 


What are you recommending on routers now Ken? 



Our spiel usually includes netgear and spend no more then 100$. Especially for 
the people on the 3mbit and 5mbit plans. We've been doing good at converting 
these people that don't want to mess with it to our rental router. (Zyxel 
2.4ghz) for 5/month. 



On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




I’m still waiting to run into a customer with a media library to justify the 
$400 WiFi router some kid in the store sold them so they could have 
multigigabit WiFi in their house. Cuz if your only source of content is your 25 
Mbps Internet connection, I’m missing why you need that AC5300 router. And 
honestly, if I had a media center with locally stored content streaming 4K 
video around the house, I’d figure a way to run a cable to the big screens. Why 
spend all that money and then cheap out by using WiFi, especially since that 60 
inch TV isn’t exactly portable unless it’s on wheels. 


From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Joe Novak 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:09 PM 



To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 




It makes me sad that Kodi got associated with all of the nonsense. It's a 
beautiful media center front end. I actually just got a 'NexBox' in that runs 
android, outputs 4K, which I can't do with my current media center setup. I've 
been excited to play around with it. 







On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




And the people with the Kodi boxes, usually the people who barely know how to 
use a computer, are they answering ads in the back of magazines or something? 
They seem to expect something like the analog TV converter boxes, you plug it 
in and get free live TV. Must be legal because I bought a box. And for tech 
support, call your ISP. 


From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:54 PM 



To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 



Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating right now. I won't 
offer any support for any issue unless it's a vanilla stick. These things are 
blatantly illegal like the black box descramblers for satellite days. 
People are dropping malicious operating systems in the middle of their trusted 
network left and right for "free" tv. God only knows what iot bot net activity 
is also causing their xhamster buffering 



On Oct 15, 2016 12:48 PM, "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netsca

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Mike Hammett]

Mikrotik's inside wireless has a lot of advantages, but RF performance is not 
one of them. Those beastly Best Buy flagships will most likely perform better. 
It isn't because they're faster, but because they have more advanced antennas 
that pull poor signals out of the garbage. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 4:53:36 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 



It depends what you are comparing to. I’ve run into customers with the new 
Belkin designed Linksys AC1750 routers that couldn’t reach 2 rooms away and 
replaced it with a 951G and it beat the pants off the Belksys. 

One other factor is my customers are rural and often cannot see a single other 
SSID, but need range. So giving them a single band 2.4 GHz router often solves 
problems. iPhones seem to think one bar at 5 GHz is better than five bars at 
2.4 GHz. And we all know you get better range in a 20 MHz channel than an 80 
MHz channel, but router manufacturers don’t seem to know that. 

I will say the hAP AC is probably not very competitive at its price point. 


From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Joe Novak 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 4:36 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 


Honestly I find the wireless performance underwhelming on the Mikrotik devices 
with integrated antennas. 



On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Nate Burke < n...@blastcomm.com > wrote: 



I think customers for the most part still associate 'big' and 'heavy' with 
Quality. I was just a customers house this week where he took out a 951 I was 
providing (for free) to put in a giant linksys $300 router. But now he says his 
wifi works down the street and around the corner. I find that hard to believe, 
but it's physically much bigger than the 951, so it must be much better... 
Maybe we should start going back to like 8 pound power bricks the size of a 
desktop computer. Then our internet would be better than comcast. 




On 10/15/2016 3:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote: 



Pretty much the same here. Lease a managed router from us for $5/month, or if 
you buy one at the store head for the $70 to $100 price range. Less they 
probably cut corners, more and you’re probably wasting money. 

Our leased routers are Mikrotik 951G, we just got some hAP AC in to consider as 
a dual band AC solution. We like the ability to manage the Mikrotik routers but 
they don’t really give us a solution for customers who want a fancy router, or 
to take management to the next level (application level QoS, customer 
dashboard). The answer for that is probably Calix, but our customer base mostly 
shops at WalMart and Dollar General, I’m not sure we have enough demand for a 
Calix class router. There are a few who would want something like that, but 
it’s probably well under 5%, unless we subsidize them. 

I only push the leased routers so hard, actually I think it’s a better deal for 
the customer than for us, if they want to buy a router and hope it lasts 5 
years they are welcome to. Unfortunately this means the people taking the 
leased router may be the people who just don’t have the money to buy a router 
we’ll be shutting them off for nonpayment in a couple months and trying to get 
our router back. 



From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Joe Novak 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:31 PM 



To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 




What are you recommending on routers now Ken? 



Our spiel usually includes netgear and spend no more then 100$. Especially for 
the people on the 3mbit and 5mbit plans. We've been doing good at converting 
these people that don't want to mess with it to our rental router. (Zyxel 
2.4ghz) for 5/month. 



On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




I’m still waiting to run into a customer with a media library to justify the 
$400 WiFi router some kid in the store sold them so they could have 
multigigabit WiFi in their house. Cuz if your only source of content is your 25 
Mbps Internet connection, I’m missing why you need that AC5300 router. And 
honestly, if I had a media center with locally stored content streaming 4K 
video around the house, I’d figure a way to run a cable to the big screens. Why 
spend all that money and then cheap out by using WiFi, especially since that 60 
inch TV isn’t exactly portable unless it’s on wheels. 


From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Joe Novak 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:09 PM 



To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 




It makes me sad that Kodi got associated with all of the nonsense. It's a 
beautiful media center front end. I actually just got a 'NexBox' in that runs 
android, outputs 4K, which I can't do w

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Mike Hammett]

The only things that should be wireless are mobile or portable things (phones, 
tablets, laptops). Everything else should be wired. 


Friends don't let friends run multi-mode. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:28:43 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 


Running cable takes work and people are lazy. 
(I have a bunch of OM4 I need to run and 2 boxes of cat6 sitting there, so I 
can't really say crap!) 


On Oct 15, 2016 1:23 PM, "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 





I’m still waiting to run into a customer with a media library to justify the 
$400 WiFi router some kid in the store sold them so they could have 
multigigabit WiFi in their house. Cuz if your only source of content is your 25 
Mbps Internet connection, I’m missing why you need that AC5300 router. And 
honestly, if I had a media center with locally stored content streaming 4K 
video around the house, I’d figure a way to run a cable to the big screens. Why 
spend all that money and then cheap out by using WiFi, especially since that 60 
inch TV isn’t exactly portable unless it’s on wheels. 


From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Joe Novak 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:09 PM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 


It makes me sad that Kodi got associated with all of the nonsense. It's a 
beautiful media center front end. I actually just got a 'NexBox' in that runs 
android, outputs 4K, which I can't do with my current media center setup. I've 
been excited to play around with it. 







On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




And the people with the Kodi boxes, usually the people who barely know how to 
use a computer, are they answering ads in the back of magazines or something? 
They seem to expect something like the analog TV converter boxes, you plug it 
in and get free live TV. Must be legal because I bought a box. And for tech 
support, call your ISP. 


From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:54 PM 



To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 



Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating right now. I won't 
offer any support for any issue unless it's a vanilla stick. These things are 
blatantly illegal like the black box descramblers for satellite days. 
People are dropping malicious operating systems in the middle of their trusted 
network left and right for "free" tv. God only knows what iot bot net activity 
is also causing their xhamster buffering 



On Oct 15, 2016 12:48 PM, "Chuck McCown" < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a 
confusing moment... 






From: CBB - Jay Fuller 

Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 







I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update. It is an earlier Netflix 
interface but I actually like it better than the modern interface. 



Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone 



- Reply message - 
From: "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > 
To: < af@afmug.com > 
Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering" 
Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM 



In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the procedure to 
update the app on the smart TV? 

Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung. I know a lot of the early 
ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers. 



From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Joe Novak 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 


In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix 
'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming boxes 
usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good too. Direct TV has 
shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far as we could tell. 



On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is actually 
stopping and starting. Previously he was saying it took a long time to buffer 
but was fine once the picture appeared. That’s what got me to thinking the 
latest complaint was impatience with how long it took before the video started 
playing, not problems while it was playing. The next challenge is to find out 
what streaming service he is using, people tend to call them all “Netflix”. But 
I rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because Netflix can switch 
stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix and it is stopping

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Joe Novak]

Have they been using them since they started the streaming product?

On Oct 16, 2016 11:44 AM, "Mike Hammett" <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

> DirecTV's CDN is Level 3.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> --------------
> *From: *"Joe Novak" <jno...@lrcomm.com>
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59:14 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
> In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix
> 'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming
> boxes usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good
> too. Direct TV has shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far
> as we could tell.
>
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
>> The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is
>> actually stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a long
>> time to buffer but was fine once the picture appeared.  That’s what got me
>> to thinking the latest complaint was impatience with how long it took
>> before the video started playing, not problems while it was playing.  The
>> next challenge is to find out what streaming service he is using, people
>> tend to call them all “Netflix”.  But I rarely hear about Netflix stopping
>> to buffer because Netflix can switch stream rates on the fly, if it’s
>> actually Netflix and it is stopping and starting, in my experience it’s
>> usually something other than just slow Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out,
>> or packet loss, or a Windows 10 download overloading the connection.
>>
>>
>>
>> We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of their
>> “smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming service, but
>> there is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old fashioned TV – your
>> Internet is too slow.  I had a customer call because she couldn’t watch an
>> online class on her computer which was telling her “you  are  not connected
>> to a network”, and there was an airplane symbol in the lower right.  Tech
>> support for the online college told her that meant her Internet was too
>> slow.  I was tempted to tell her the airplane symbol actually meant her
>> Internet was really fast (it’s flying), otherwise it would show a car or a
>> turtle.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>>
>>
>>
>> I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, October 14, 2016 8:34 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>>
>>
>>
>> But that’s not what I’m talking about.  I’m wondering if when a customer
>> talks about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for the video to
>> start playing.
>>
>>
>>
>> And maybe I’m confused because I assume everyone is using Netflix.  And
>> I’m pretty sure Netflix starts the stream at a low quality so it starts
>> quickly, and then ramps up the quality as the buffer fills, since their
>> technology allows changing the stream quality on the fly.  Other services
>> like maybe Hulu and Amazon Prime may behave differently.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also with my default assumption that people are using Netflix, I don’t
>> expect rebuffering because it’s been years since Netflix needed to stop and
>> rebuffer at a lower stream rate, I think they do that pretty seamlessly now.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
>> Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
>> *Sent:* Friday, October 14, 2016 9:09 PM
>> *To

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Mike Hammett]

DirecTV's CDN is Level 3. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Joe Novak" <jno...@lrcomm.com> 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59:14 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 


In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix 
'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming boxes 
usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good too. Direct TV has 
shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far as we could tell. 


On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 





The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is actually 
stopping and starting. Previously he was saying it took a long time to buffer 
but was fine once the picture appeared. That’s what got me to thinking the 
latest complaint was impatience with how long it took before the video started 
playing, not problems while it was playing. The next challenge is to find out 
what streaming service he is using, people tend to call them all “Netflix”. But 
I rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because Netflix can switch 
stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix and it is stopping and 
starting, in my experience it’s usually something other than just slow 
Internet. Like WiFi dropping out, or packet loss, or a Windows 10 download 
overloading the connection. 

We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of their 
“smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming service, but there 
is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old fashioned TV – your Internet is 
too slow. I had a customer call because she couldn’t watch an online class on 
her computer which was telling her “you are not connected to a network”, and 
there was an airplane symbol in the lower right. Tech support for the online 
college told her that meant her Internet was too slow. I was tempted to tell 
her the airplane symbol actually meant her Internet was really fast (it’s 
flying), otherwise it would show a car or a turtle. 




From: Af [mailto: af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM 
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 




I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering. 






From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 8:34 PM 

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 



But that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m wondering if when a customer talks 
about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for the video to start 
playing. 

And maybe I’m confused because I assume everyone is using Netflix. And I’m 
pretty sure Netflix starts the stream at a low quality so it starts quickly, 
and then ramps up the quality as the buffer fills, since their technology 
allows changing the stream quality on the fly. Other services like maybe Hulu 
and Amazon Prime may behave differently. 

Also with my default assumption that people are using Netflix, I don’t expect 
rebuffering because it’s been years since Netflix needed to stop and rebuffer 
at a lower stream rate, I think they do that pretty seamlessly now. 


From: Af [ mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com ] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard 
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 9:09 PM 
To: af < af@afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" 



Well, people certainly want connections that support multiple streams. Paying 
for it, I'm not so sure about... at least around these parts. 



On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke < eric.kuh...@gmail.com > wrote: 




Have you ever seen a 1080p youtube video load on a 1GbE active-E FTTH ISP that 
has direct peering with Google from a router 2.5ms upstream? It's a beautiful 
thing. 
People will absolutely pay for connections that support multiple streams, take 
a typical family of 4 or 5 people with kids that want to watch videos on 
tablets simultaneously... 





On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 




When people say their video is “buffering”, I assume they mean re-buffering, 
where the video stops and starts. 

I’m starting to wonder if some people are referring to the delay before the 
video starts playing. Is this a thing? And do people pay for faster Internet 
just to make the video start faster, like cut 15-20 seconds down to 5 or 10 
seconds? 

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Roku is just an amazing nail on the head device. I still run the old xd it
still updates, the apps still update, it's got the supported dev channels.
That's probably one of the most elegantly perfect pieces of electronic in
my home

On Oct 16, 2016 10:49 AM, "Bill Prince"  wrote:

> The problem with whatever app is on the TV (or if there is an app), is
> that if the TV is more than 1 year old, it will never be updated again.
>
> The Netflix app on our (now) 5 year old LG is a poor example of how
> Netflix should actually work (or any of the online streaming services for
> that matter). I didn't realize how poor until we installed a ROKU 2, and
> found out what a reasonably modern implementation looked like.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 10/15/2016 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the
> procedure to update the app on the smart TV?
>
>
>
> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of the
> early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Bill Prince]

The problem with whatever app is on the TV (or if there is an app), is 
that if the TV is more than 1 year old, it will never be updated again.


The Netflix app on our (now) 5 year old LG is a poor example of how 
Netflix should actually work (or any of the online streaming services 
for that matter). I didn't realize how poor until we installed a ROKU 2, 
and found out what a reasonably modern implementation looked like.



bp


On 10/15/2016 10:10 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the 
procedure to update the app on the smart TV?


Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of 
the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Paul Stewart]

None of my house is wired … everything is finished and when/if someday I get 
around to ripping out walls/ceilings for some reason I’ll start running 
conduit.  The only place that is wired is one section of the lower basement …  

Having reliable and reasonably fast wireless is pretty important to me - and 
once I bought a RT-AC87U Dual-band 4x4 AC2400 I finally got that.I’ve had a 
lot of different consumer grade routers and switches in my home and finally am 
happy now.  This is the first wireless router I’ve had that covers my entire 
house without those stupid repeaters or other issues… I did some IPERF testing 
on it a while back and could get an *honest* 300-400Mb/s bidirectional most of 
the time - more than what I need.

Almost every device in my house is wireless and few devices even have option 
for wired except for gaming consoles, desktop computers … I run a large media 
centre system on Plex with about 80TB of content stored on NAS.  That part is 
wired of course too but the devices that are being fed out to are all wireless 
and work well with no issues …



> On Oct 15, 2016, at 6:11 PM, Josh Reynolds <j...@kyneticwifi.com> wrote:
> My networking lab in the basement is wired :P
> 
> 
> On Oct 15, 2016 4:49 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" <par...@cyberbroadband.net 
> <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:
> 
> My house is cat5 wired :)
> 
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
> 
> - Reply message -
> From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com <mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>>
> To: <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>>
> Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 1:28 PM
> 
> Running cable takes work and people are lazy.
> 
> (I have a bunch of OM4 I need to run and 2 boxes of cat6 sitting there, so I 
> can't really say crap!)
> 
> 
> On Oct 15, 2016 1:23 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com 
> <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
> I’m still waiting to run into a customer with a media library to justify the 
> $400 WiFi router some kid in the store sold them so they could have 
> multigigabit WiFi in their house.  Cuz if your only source of content is your 
> 25 Mbps Internet connection, I’m missing why you need that AC5300 router.  
> And honestly, if I had a media center with locally stored content streaming 
> 4K video around the house, I’d figure a way to run a cable to the big 
> screens.  Why spend all that money and then cheap out by using WiFi, 
> especially since that 60 inch TV isn’t exactly portable unless it’s on wheels.
> 
>  
> 
>   <>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On 
> Behalf Of Joe Novak
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:09 PM
> To: a...@afmug..com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> 
>  
> 
> It makes me sad that Kodi got associated with all of the nonsense. It's a 
> beautiful media center front end. I actually just got a 'NexBox' in that runs 
> android, outputs 4K, which I can't do with my current media center setup. 
> I've been excited to play around with it. 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com 
> <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
> 
> And the people with the Kodi boxes, usually the people who barely know how to 
> use a computer, are they answering ads in the back of magazines or something? 
>  They seem to expect something like the analog TV converter boxes, you plug 
> it in and get free live TV.  Must be legal because I bought a box.  And for 
> tech support, call your ISP.
> 
>  
> 
>   <>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On 
> Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:54 PM
> 
> 
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> 
>  
> 
> Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating right now. I won't 
> offer any support for any issue unless it's a vanilla stick. These things are 
> blatantly illegal like the black box descramblers for satellite days.
> 
> People are dropping malicious operating systems in the middle of their 
> trusted network left and right for "free" tv. God only knows what iot bot net 
> activity is also causing their xhamster buffering
> 
>  
> 
> On Oct 15, 2016 12:48 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com 
> <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
> 
> I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a 
> confusing moment...
> 
>  
> 
> From: CBB - Jay Fuller
> 
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM
&g

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Paul Stewart]

Yeah so true…

Now anytime someone says they have an “Android box” people think of pirated TV 
using Kodi ….

> On Oct 15, 2016, at 2:09 PM, Joe Novak <jno...@lrcomm.com> wrote:
> 
> It makes me sad that Kodi got associated with all of the nonsense. It's a 
> beautiful media center front end. I actually just got a 'NexBox' in that runs 
> android, outputs 4K, which I can't do with my current media center setup. 
> I've been excited to play around with it. 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com 
> <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
> And the people with the Kodi boxes, usually the people who barely know how to 
> use a computer, are they answering ads in the back of magazines or something? 
>  They seem to expect something like the analog TV converter boxes, you plug 
> it in and get free live TV.  Must be legal because I bought a box.  And for 
> tech support, call your ISP.
> 
>  
> 
>   <>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On 
> Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:54 PM
> 
> 
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> 
>  
> 
> Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating right now. I won't 
> offer any support for any issue unless it's a vanilla stick. These things are 
> blatantly illegal like the black box descramblers for satellite days.
> 
> People are dropping malicious operating systems in the middle of their 
> trusted network left and right for "free" tv. God only knows what iot bot net 
> activity is also causing their xhamster buffering
> 
>  
> 
> On Oct 15, 2016 12:48 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com 
> <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
> 
> I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a 
> confusing moment...
> 
>  
> 
> From: CBB - Jay Fuller
> 
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM
> 
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is an earlier Netflix 
> interface but I actually like it better than the modern interface.
> 
>  
> 
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
> 
>  
> 
> - Reply message -
> From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>
> To: <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>>
> Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM
> 
>  
> 
> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the procedure 
> to update the app on the smart TV?
> 
>  
> 
> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of the 
> early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  <> 
> 
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On 
> Behalf Of Joe Novak
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> 
>  
> 
> In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix 
> 'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming 
> boxes usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good too. Direct 
> TV has shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far as we could 
> tell.
> 
>  
> 
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com 
> <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
> 
> The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is actually 
> stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a long time to 
> buffer but was fine once the picture appeared.  That’s what got me to 
> thinking the latest complaint was impatience with how long it took before the 
> video started playing, not problems while it was playing.  The next challenge 
> is to find out what streaming service he is using, people tend to call them 
> all “Netflix”.  But I rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because 
> Netflix can switch stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix and it 
> is stopping and starting, in my experience it’s usually something other than 
> just slow Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out, or packet loss, or a Windows 10 
> download overloading the connection.
> 
>  
> 
> We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of their 
> “smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming service, but 
> there is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old f

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Paul Stewart]

Yeah we see an absolute tonne of android based boxes here in Canada for “free” 
TV as well … Kijiji ads all over the place promoting them and stuff … basically 
Kodi boxes with some “grey plugins” - not really anything new technically, but 
now better packaged than ever … 


> On Oct 15, 2016, at 1:53 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
> <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating right now. I won't 
> offer any support for any issue unless it's a vanilla stick. These things are 
> blatantly illegal like the black box descramblers for satellite days.
> 
> People are dropping malicious operating systems in the middle of their 
> trusted network left and right for "free" tv. God only knows what iot bot net 
> activity is also causing their xhamster buffering
> 
> 
> On Oct 15, 2016 12:48 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com 
> <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
> I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a 
> confusing moment...
>  
> From: CBB - Jay Fuller <>
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM
> To: af@afmug.com <>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>  
>  
> I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is an earlier Netflix 
> interface but I actually like it better than the modern interface.
>  
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>  
> - Reply message -
> From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>
> To: <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>>
> Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM
>  
> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the procedure 
> to update the app on the smart TV?
> 
>  
> 
> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of the 
> early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  <> 
> 
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] On 
> Behalf Of Joe Novak
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> 
>  
> 
> In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix 
> 'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming 
> boxes usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good too. Direct 
> TV has shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far as we could 
> tell.
> 
>  
> 
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com <>> wrote:
> 
> The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is actually 
> stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a long time to 
> buffer but was fine once the picture appeared.  That’s what got me to 
> thinking the latest complaint was impatience with how long it took before the 
> video started playing, not problems while it was playing.  The next challenge 
> is to find out what streaming service he is using, people tend to call them 
> all “Netflix”.  But I rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because 
> Netflix can switch stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix and it 
> is stopping and starting, in my experience it’s usually something other than 
> just slow Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out, or packet loss, or a Windows 10 
> download overloading the connection.
> 
>  
> 
> We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of their 
> “smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming service, but 
> there is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old fashioned TV – your 
> Internet is too slow.  I had a customer call because she couldn’t watch an 
> online class on her computer which was telling her “you  are  not connected 
> to a network”, and there was an airplane symbol in the lower right.  Tech 
> support for the online college told her that meant her Internet was too slow. 
>  I was tempted to tell her the airplane symbol actually meant her Internet 
> was really fast (it’s flying), otherwise it would show a car or a turtle.
> 
>  
> 
>   <>
> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <>] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
> Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM
> To: af@afmug.com <>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> 
>  
> 
> I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering. 
> 
>  
> 
> From: Ken Hohhof
> 
> Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 8:34 PM
> 
> To: af@afmug.com <>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> 
>  
> 
> But that’s not what I’m 

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Robert]

Worked fine in Thunderbird...

On 10/15/16 6:14 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:

For me too.  I use an email client.  One of my kids think I am a
dinosaur for doing so.

*From:* Jason McKemie
*Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 6:29 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

Showed up as animated here.

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 7:24 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

Why didn’t the animated GIF come through as animated?  Is it because
I sent it embedded rather than attached?  But I’ve done that with
animated emoticons before and it worked.  Is it because I’m using
Outlook now?





*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
*Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 7:16 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"



LOL



On Oct 15, 2016 6:51 PM, "Robert Andrews" <i...@avantwireless.com>
wrote:

As the original webmaster at netscape, thanks for the memories

On 10/15/2016 10:55 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Yep, here’s your video:

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck
McCown
*Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:48 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”.
Talk about a
confusing moment...

*From:*CBB - Jay Fuller

*Sent:*Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is
an earlier
Netflix interface but I actually like it better than the modern
interface.

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>
To: <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM

In your experience, does it help if the customer goes
through the
procedure to update the app on the smart TV?

Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I
know a lot of
the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain
WiFi routers.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Joe Novak
*Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones
- the
netflix 'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The
Roku's and
streaming boxes usually have perfect support for it. Hulu
seems to do
good too. Direct TV has shit poor bandwidth management, and
poor peering
as far as we could tell.

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com

<mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify
the video is
actually stopping and starting.  Previously he was
saying it took a
long time to buffer but was fine once the picture
appeared.  That’s
what got me to thinking the latest complaint was
impatience with how
long it took before the video started playing, not
problems while it
was playing.  The next challenge is to find out what
streaming
service he is using, people tend to call them all
“Netflix”.  But I
rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because
Netflix can
switch stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix
and it is
stopping and starting, in my experience it’s usually
something other
than just slow Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out, or
packet loss, or
a Windows 10 download overloading the connection.

We have transitioned to the point where people sit down
in front of
their “smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what
streaming
service, but there is only one answer if it doesn’t work
like old
fashioned TV – your Internet is too slow.  I had a
customer call
because she couldn’t watch an online class on her
compute

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Chuck McCown]

For me too.  I use an email client.  One of my kids think I am a dinosaur for 
doing so.  

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 6:29 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

Showed up as animated here.

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 7:24 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

  Why didn’t the animated GIF come through as animated?  Is it because I sent 
it embedded rather than attached?  But I’ve done that with animated emoticons 
before and it worked.  Is it because I’m using Outlook now?





  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
  Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 7:16 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"



  LOL



  On Oct 15, 2016 6:51 PM, "Robert Andrews" <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:

As the original webmaster at netscape, thanks for the memories

On 10/15/2016 10:55 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  Yep, here’s your video:

  *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
  *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:48 PM
      *To:* af@afmug.com
  *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

  I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a
  confusing moment...

  *From:*CBB - Jay Fuller

  *Sent:*Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM

  *To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

  *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

  I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is an earlier
  Netflix interface but I actually like it better than the modern
  interface.

  Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

  - Reply message -
  From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>
  To: <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>>
  Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
  Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM

  In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the
  procedure to update the app on the smart TV?

  Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of
  the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.

  *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Joe Novak
      *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
  *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
  *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

  In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the
  netflix 'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and
  streaming boxes usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do
  good too. Direct TV has shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering
  as far as we could tell.

  On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com


  <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

  The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is
  actually stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a
  long time to buffer but was fine once the picture appeared.  That’s
  what got me to thinking the latest complaint was impatience with how
  long it took before the video started playing, not problems while it
  was playing.  The next challenge is to find out what streaming
  service he is using, people tend to call them all “Netflix”.  But I
  rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because Netflix can
  switch stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix and it is
  stopping and starting, in my experience it’s usually something other
  than just slow Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out, or packet loss, or
  a Windows 10 download overloading the connection.

  We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of
  their “smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming
  service, but there is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old
  fashioned TV – your Internet is too slow.  I had a customer call
  because she couldn’t watch an online class on her computer which was
  telling her “you  are  not connected to a network”, and there was an
  airplane symbol in the lower right.  Tech support for the online
  college told her that meant her Internet was too slow.  I was
  tempted to tell her the airplane symbol actually meant her Internet
  was really fast (it’s flying), otherwise it would show a car or a
  turtle.


  *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
  *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM
  *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
  *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

  I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering.

      *From:*Ken Hohhof

  *Sent:*Friday, October 14, 2

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Jason McKemie]

Showed up as animated here.

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 7:24 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

> Why didn’t the animated GIF come through as animated?  Is it because I
> sent it embedded rather than attached?  But I’ve done that with animated
> emoticons before and it worked.  Is it because I’m using Outlook now?
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 7:16 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
> LOL
>
>
>
> On Oct 15, 2016 6:51 PM, "Robert Andrews" <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:
>
> As the original webmaster at netscape, thanks for the memories
>
> On 10/15/2016 10:55 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Yep, here’s your video:
>
> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:48 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
> I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a
> confusing moment...
>
> *From:*CBB - Jay Fuller
>
> *Sent:*Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM
>
> *To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>
> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
> I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is an earlier
> Netflix interface but I actually like it better than the modern
> interface.
>
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>
> To: <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>>
> Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM
>
> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the
> procedure to update the app on the smart TV?
>
> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of
> the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
>
> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Joe Novak
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
> In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the
> netflix 'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and
> streaming boxes usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do
> good too. Direct TV has shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering
> as far as we could tell.
>
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com
> <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
>
> The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is
> actually stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a
> long time to buffer but was fine once the picture appeared.  That’s
> what got me to thinking the latest complaint was impatience with how
> long it took before the video started playing, not problems while it
> was playing.  The next challenge is to find out what streaming
> service he is using, people tend to call them all “Netflix”.  But I
> rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because Netflix can
> switch stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix and it is
> stopping and starting, in my experience it’s usually something other
> than just slow Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out, or packet loss, or
> a Windows 10 download overloading the connection.
>
> We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of
> their “smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming
> service, but there is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old
> fashioned TV – your Internet is too slow.  I had a customer call
> because she couldn’t watch an online class on her computer which was
> telling her “you  are  not connected to a network”, and there was an
> airplane symbol in the lower right.  Tech support for the online
>     college told her that meant her Internet was too slow.  I was
> tempted to tell her the airplane symbol actually meant her Internet
> was really fast (it’s flying), otherwise it would show a car or a
> turtle.
>
>     *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
> I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering.
>
> *From:*Ken Hohhof
>
> *Sent:*Friday, October 14, 2016 8:34 PM
>
> *To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>
> *Subjec

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Josh Reynolds]

LOL

On Oct 15, 2016 6:51 PM, "Robert Andrews" <i...@avantwireless.com> wrote:

> As the original webmaster at netscape, thanks for the memories
>
> On 10/15/2016 10:55 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
>> Yep, here’s your video:
>>
>> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:48 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>>
>> I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a
>> confusing moment...
>>
>> *From:*CBB - Jay Fuller
>>
>> *Sent:*Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM
>>
>> *To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>>
>> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>>
>> I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is an earlier
>> Netflix interface but I actually like it better than the modern
>> interface.
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>>
>> - Reply message -
>> From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>
>> To: <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>>
>> Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>> Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM
>>
>> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the
>> procedure to update the app on the smart TV?
>>
>> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of
>> the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
>>
>> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Joe Novak
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>>
>> In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the
>> netflix 'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and
>> streaming boxes usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do
>> good too. Direct TV has shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering
>> as far as we could tell.
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com
>> <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
>>
>> The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is
>> actually stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a
>> long time to buffer but was fine once the picture appeared.  That’s
>> what got me to thinking the latest complaint was impatience with how
>> long it took before the video started playing, not problems while it
>> was playing.  The next challenge is to find out what streaming
>> service he is using, people tend to call them all “Netflix”.  But I
>> rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because Netflix can
>> switch stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix and it is
>> stopping and starting, in my experience it’s usually something other
>> than just slow Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out, or packet loss, or
>> a Windows 10 download overloading the connection.
>>
>> We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of
>> their “smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming
>> service, but there is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old
>> fashioned TV – your Internet is too slow.  I had a customer call
>> because she couldn’t watch an online class on her computer which was
>> telling her “you  are  not connected to a network”, and there was an
>> airplane symbol in the lower right.  Tech support for the online
>> college told her that meant her Internet was too slow.  I was
>> tempted to tell her the airplane symbol actually meant her Internet
>> was really fast (it’s flying), otherwise it would show a car or a
>> turtle.
>>
>> *From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>>
>> I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering.
>>
>> *From:*Ken Hohhof
>>
>> *Sent:*Friday, October 14, 2016 8:34 PM
>>
>> *To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
>>
>> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>>
>> But that’s not what I’m talking about.  I’m wondering if when a
>> customer talks about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for
>> the video to start playing.
>>

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Robert Andrews]

As the original webmaster at netscape, thanks for the memories

On 10/15/2016 10:55 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Yep, here’s your video:

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:48 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a
confusing moment...

*From:*CBB - Jay Fuller

*Sent:*Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM

*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is an earlier
Netflix interface but I actually like it better than the modern
interface.

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>
To: <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>>
Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM

In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the
procedure to update the app on the smart TV?

Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of
the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Joe Novak
*Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the
netflix 'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and
streaming boxes usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do
good too. Direct TV has shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering
as far as we could tell.

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is
actually stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a
long time to buffer but was fine once the picture appeared.  That’s
what got me to thinking the latest complaint was impatience with how
long it took before the video started playing, not problems while it
was playing.  The next challenge is to find out what streaming
service he is using, people tend to call them all “Netflix”.  But I
rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because Netflix can
switch stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix and it is
stopping and starting, in my experience it’s usually something other
than just slow Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out, or packet loss, or
a Windows 10 download overloading the connection.

We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of
their “smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming
service, but there is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old
fashioned TV – your Internet is too slow.  I had a customer call
because she couldn’t watch an online class on her computer which was
telling her “you  are  not connected to a network”, and there was an
airplane symbol in the lower right.  Tech support for the online
college told her that meant her Internet was too slow.  I was
tempted to tell her the airplane symbol actually meant her Internet
was really fast (it’s flying), otherwise it would show a car or a
turtle.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering.

*From:*Ken Hohhof

    *Sent:*Friday, October 14, 2016 8:34 PM

*To:*af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

But that’s not what I’m talking about.  I’m wondering if when a
customer talks about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for
the video to start playing.

And maybe I’m confused because I assume everyone is using Netflix.
And I’m pretty sure Netflix starts the stream at a low quality so it
starts quickly, and then ramps up the quality as the buffer fills,
since their technology allows changing the stream quality on the
fly.  Other services like maybe Hulu and Amazon Prime may behave
differently.

Also with my default assumption that people are using Netflix, I
don’t expect rebuffering because it’s been years since Netflix
needed to stop and rebuffer at a lower stream rate, I think they do
that pretty seamlessly now.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
    *Sent:* Friday, October 14, 2016 9:09 PM
*To:* af <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

Well, people certainly want connections that support multiple
streams. Paying for it,

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Josh Reynolds]

My networking lab in the basement is wired :P

On Oct 15, 2016 4:49 PM, "CBB - Jay Fuller" <par...@cyberbroadband.net>
wrote:

>
> My house is cat5 wired :)
>
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
> To: <af@afmug.com>
> Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 1:28 PM
>
> Running cable takes work and people are lazy.
>
> (I have a bunch of OM4 I need to run and 2 boxes of cat6 sitting there, so
> I can't really say crap!)
>
> On Oct 15, 2016 1:23 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
>> I’m still waiting to run into a customer with a media library to justify
>> the $400 WiFi router some kid in the store sold them so they could have
>> multigigabit WiFi in their house.  Cuz if your only source of content is
>> your 25 Mbps Internet connection, I’m missing why you need that AC5300
>> router.  And honestly, if I had a media center with locally stored content
>> streaming 4K video around the house, I’d figure a way to run a cable to the
>> big screens.  Why spend all that money and then cheap out by using WiFi,
>> especially since that 60 inch TV isn’t exactly portable unless it’s on
>> wheels.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Joe Novak
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:09 PM
>> *To:* a...@afmug..com <af@afmug.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>>
>>
>>
>> It makes me sad that Kodi got associated with all of the nonsense. It's a
>> beautiful media center front end. I actually just got a 'NexBox' in that
>> runs android, outputs 4K, which I can't do with my current media center
>> setup. I've been excited to play around with it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>>
>> And the people with the Kodi boxes, usually the people who barely know
>> how to use a computer, are they answering ads in the back of magazines or
>> something?  They seem to expect something like the analog TV converter
>> boxes, you plug it in and get free live TV.  Must be legal because I bought
>> a box.  And for tech support, call your ISP.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *That One Guy
>> /sarcasm
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:54 PM
>>
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>>
>>
>>
>> Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating right now. I
>> won't offer any support for any issue unless it's a vanilla stick. These
>> things are blatantly illegal like the black box descramblers for satellite
>> days.
>>
>> People are dropping malicious operating systems in the middle of their
>> trusted network left and right for "free" tv. God only knows what iot bot
>> net activity is also causing their xhamster buffering
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 15, 2016 12:48 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>> I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a
>> confusing moment...
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
>>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is an earlier
>> Netflix interface but I actually like it better than the modern
>> interface.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>>
>>
>>
>> - Reply message -
>> From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
>> To: <af@afmug.com>
>> Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>> Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM
>>
>>
>>
>> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the
>> procedure to update the app on the smart TV?
>>
>>
>>
>> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of
>> the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Joe Novak
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>>
>>

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Ken Hohhof]

It depends what you are comparing to.  I’ve run into customers with the new 
Belkin designed Linksys AC1750 routers that couldn’t reach 2 rooms away and 
replaced it with a 951G and it beat the pants off the Belksys.

 

One other factor is my customers are rural and often cannot see a single other 
SSID, but need range.  So giving them a single band 2.4 GHz router often solves 
problems.  iPhones seem to think one bar at 5 GHz is better than five bars at 
2.4 GHz.  And we all know you get better range in a 20 MHz channel than an 80 
MHz channel, but router manufacturers don’t seem to know that.

 

I will say the hAP AC is probably not very competitive at its price point.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Joe Novak
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 4:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

Honestly I find the wireless performance underwhelming on the Mikrotik devices 
with integrated antennas.

 

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Nate Burke <n...@blastcomm.com 
<mailto:n...@blastcomm.com> > wrote:

I think customers for the most part still associate 'big' and 'heavy' with 
Quality.  I was just a customers house this week where he took out a 951 I was 
providing (for free) to put in a giant linksys $300 router.  But now he says 
his wifi works down the street and around the corner.  I find that hard to 
believe, but it's physically much bigger than the 951, so it  must be much 
better...   Maybe we should start going back to like 8 pound power bricks the 
size of a desktop computer.  Then our internet would be better than comcast.  




On 10/15/2016 3:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Pretty much the same here.  Lease a managed router from us for $5/month, or if 
you buy one at the store head for the $70 to $100 price range.  Less they 
probably cut corners, more and you’re probably wasting money.

 

Our leased routers are Mikrotik 951G, we just got some hAP AC in to consider as 
a dual band AC solution.  We like the ability to manage the Mikrotik routers 
but they don’t really give us a solution for customers who want a fancy router, 
or to take management to the next level (application level QoS, customer 
dashboard).  The answer for that is probably Calix, but our customer base 
mostly shops at WalMart and Dollar General, I’m not sure we have enough demand 
for a Calix class router.  There are a few who would want something like that, 
but it’s probably well under 5%, unless we subsidize them.

 

I only push the leased routers so hard, actually I think it’s a better deal for 
the customer than for us, if they want to buy a router and hope it lasts 5 
years they are welcome to.  Unfortunately this means the people taking the 
leased router may be the people who just don’t have the money to buy a router 
we’ll be shutting them off for nonpayment in a couple months and trying to get 
our router back.

 

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Joe Novak
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:31 PM


To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

What are you recommending on routers now Ken?

 

Our spiel usually includes netgear and spend no more then 100$. Especially for 
the people on the 3mbit and 5mbit plans. We've been doing good at converting 
these people that don't want to mess with it to our rental router. (Zyxel 
2.4ghz) for 5/month. 

 

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com 
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

I’m still waiting to run into a customer with a media library to justify the 
$400 WiFi router some kid in the store sold them so they could have 
multigigabit WiFi in their house.  Cuz if your only source of content is your 
25 Mbps Internet connection, I’m missing why you need that AC5300 router.  And 
honestly, if I had a media center with locally stored content streaming 4K 
video around the house, I’d figure a way to run a cable to the big screens.  
Why spend all that money and then cheap out by using WiFi, especially since 
that 60 inch TV isn’t exactly portable unless it’s on wheels.

 

 

From: Af [mailto: <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Joe Novak
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:09 PM


To:  <mailto:af@afmug.com> af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

It makes me sad that Kodi got associated with all of the nonsense. It's a 
beautiful media center front end. I actually just got a 'NexBox' in that runs 
android, outputs 4K, which I can't do with my current media center setup. I've 
been excited to play around with it. 

 

 

 

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof < <mailto:af...@kwisp.com> 
af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

And the people with the Kodi boxes, usually the people who barely know how to 
use a computer, are they answering ads in the back of magazines or something?  
They seem to expect something like the analog TV converte

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

My house is cat5 wired :)

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
To: <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 1:28 PM

Running cable takes work and people are lazy.
(I have a bunch of OM4 I need to run and 2 boxes of cat6 sitting there, so I 
can't really say crap!)

On Oct 15, 2016 1:23 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:I’m still waiting 
to run into a customer with a media library to justify the $400 WiFi router 
some kid in the store sold them so they could have multigigabit WiFi in their 
house.  Cuz if your only source of content is your 25 Mbps Internet connection, 
I’m missing why you need that AC5300 router.  And honestly, if I had a media 
center with locally stored content streaming 4K video around the house, I’d 
figure a way to run a cable to the big screens.  Why spend all that money and 
then cheap out by using WiFi, especially since that 60 inch TV isn’t exactly 
portable unless it’s on wheels.  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On 
Behalf Of Joe Novak
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:09 PM
To: a...@afmug..com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" It makes me sad that Kodi got associated with 
all of the nonsense. It's a beautiful media center front end. I actually just 
got a 'NexBox' in that runs android, outputs 4K, which I can't do with my 
current media center setup. I've been excited to play around with it.  
 
 On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:And the 
people with the Kodi boxes, usually the people who barely know how to use a 
computer, are they answering ads in the back of magazines or something?  They 
seem to expect something like the analog TV converter boxes, you plug it in and 
get free live TV.  Must be legal because I bought a box.  And for tech support, 
call your ISP.  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of That One 
Guy /sarcasm
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
 Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating right now. I won't 
offer any support for any issue unless it's a vanilla stick. These things are 
blatantly illegal like the black box descramblers for satellite days. People 
are dropping malicious operating systems in the middle of their trusted network 
left and right for "free" tv. God only knows what iot bot net activity is also 
causing their xhamster buffering On Oct 15, 2016 12:48 PM, "Chuck McCown" 
<ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received 
“Netscape”. Talk about a confusing moment...
 
From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 
 
I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is an earlier Netflix 
interface but I actually like it better than the modern interface.
 
Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
 
- Reply message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
To: <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM
 
In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the procedure to 
update the app on the smart TV? Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be 
Samsung.  I know a lot of the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with 
certain WiFi routers.   From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Joe 
Novak
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of 
the new ones - the netflix 'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The 
Roku's and streaming boxes usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to 
do good too. Direct TV has shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as 
far as we could tell. 
 On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:The most 
recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is actually stopping 
and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a long time to buffer but was 
fine once the picture appeared.  That’s what got me to thinking the latest 
complaint was impatience with how long it took before the video started 
playing, not problems while it was playing.  The next challenge is to find out 
what streaming service he is using, people tend to call them all “Netflix”.  
But I rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because Netflix can switch 
stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix and it is stopping and 
starting, in my experience it’s usually something other than just slow 
Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out, or packet loss, or a Windows 10 download 
overloading the connection. We have transitioned to the point where people sit 
down in front of their “smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what 
streaming s

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

The homegamers don't get that

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
To: <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 1:23 PM

I’m still waiting to run into a customer with a media library to justify the 
$400 WiFi router some kid in the store sold them so they could have 
multigigabit WiFi in their house.  Cuz if your only source of content is your 
25 Mbps Internet connection, I’m missing why you need that AC5300 router.  And 
honestly, if I had a media center with locally stored content streaming 4K 
video around the house, I’d figure a way to run a cable to the big screens.  
Why spend all that money and then cheap out by using WiFi, especially since 
that 60 inch TV isn’t exactly portable unless it’s on wheels.  From: Af 
[mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Joe Novak
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:09 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" It makes me sad that Kodi got associated with 
all of the nonsense. It's a beautiful media center front end. I actually just 
got a 'NexBox' in that runs android, outputs 4K, which I can't do with my 
current media center setup. I've been excited to play around with it.  

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:And the 
people with the Kodi boxes, usually the people who barely know how to use a 
computer, are they answering ads in the back of magazines or something?  They 
seem to expect something like the analog TV converter boxes, you plug it in and 
get free live TV.  Must be legal because I bought a box.  And for tech support, 
call your ISP.  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of That One 
Guy /sarcasm
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating right now. I won't 
offer any support for any issue unless it's a vanilla stick. These things are 
blatantly illegal like the black box descramblers for satellite days. People 
are dropping malicious operating systems in the middle of their trusted network 
left and right for "free" tv. God only knows what iot bot net activity is also 
causing their xhamster buffering On Oct 15, 2016 12:48 PM, "Chuck McCown" 
<ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received 
“Netscape”. Talk about a confusing moment...

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"



I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is an earlier Netflix 
interface but I actually like it better than the modern interface.

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
To: <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM

In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the procedure to 
update the app on the smart TV? Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be 
Samsung.  I know a lot of the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with 
certain WiFi routers.   From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Joe 
Novak
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of 
the new ones - the netflix 'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The 
Roku's and streaming boxes usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to 
do good too. Direct TV has shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as 
far as we could tell. 
On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:The most 
recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is actually stopping 
and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a long time to buffer but was 
fine once the picture appeared.  That’s what got me to thinking the latest 
complaint was impatience with how long it took before the video started 
playing, not problems while it was playing.  The next challenge is to find out 
what streaming service he is using, people tend to call them all “Netflix”.  
But I rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because Netflix can switch 
stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix and it is stopping and 
starting, in my experience it’s usually something other than just slow 
Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out, or packet loss, or a Windows 10 download 
overloading the connection. We have transitioned to the point where people sit 
down in front of their “smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what 
streaming service, but there is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old 
fashioned TV – your Internet is too slow.  I had a customer call because she 
couldn’t watch an online class on her computer which was telling her “you  are  
not connected to a netwo

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Joe Novak]

Honestly I find the wireless performance underwhelming on the Mikrotik
devices with integrated antennas.

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Nate Burke <n...@blastcomm.com> wrote:

> I think customers for the most part still associate 'big' and 'heavy' with
> Quality.  I was just a customers house this week where he took out a 951 I
> was providing (for free) to put in a giant linksys $300 router.  But now he
> says his wifi works down the street and around the corner.  I find that
> hard to believe, but it's physically much bigger than the 951, so it  must
> be much better...   Maybe we should start going back to like 8 pound power
> bricks the size of a desktop computer.  Then our internet would be better
> than comcast.
>
>
>
> On 10/15/2016 3:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Pretty much the same here.  Lease a managed router from us for $5/month,
> or if you buy one at the store head for the $70 to $100 price range.  Less
> they probably cut corners, more and you’re probably wasting money.
>
>
>
> Our leased routers are Mikrotik 951G, we just got some hAP AC in to
> consider as a dual band AC solution.  We like the ability to manage the
> Mikrotik routers but they don’t really give us a solution for customers who
> want a fancy router, or to take management to the next level (application
> level QoS, customer dashboard).  The answer for that is probably Calix, but
> our customer base mostly shops at WalMart and Dollar General, I’m not sure
> we have enough demand for a Calix class router.  There are a few who would
> want something like that, but it’s probably well under 5%, unless we
> subsidize them.
>
>
>
> I only push the leased routers so hard, actually I think it’s a better
> deal for the customer than for us, if they want to buy a router and hope it
> lasts 5 years they are welcome to.  Unfortunately this means the people
> taking the leased router may be the people who just don’t have the money to
> buy a router we’ll be shutting them off for nonpayment in a couple months
> and trying to get our router back.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *Joe Novak
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:31 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
> What are you recommending on routers now Ken?
>
>
>
> Our spiel usually includes netgear and spend no more then 100$. Especially
> for the people on the 3mbit and 5mbit plans. We've been doing good at
> converting these people that don't want to mess with it to our rental
> router. (Zyxel 2.4ghz) for 5/month.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
> I’m still waiting to run into a customer with a media library to justify
> the $400 WiFi router some kid in the store sold them so they could have
> multigigabit WiFi in their house.  Cuz if your only source of content is
> your 25 Mbps Internet connection, I’m missing why you need that AC5300
> router.  And honestly, if I had a media center with locally stored content
> streaming 4K video around the house, I’d figure a way to run a cable to the
> big screens.  Why spend all that money and then cheap out by using WiFi,
> especially since that 60 inch TV isn’t exactly portable unless it’s on
> wheels.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Joe Novak
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:09 PM
>
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
> It makes me sad that Kodi got associated with all of the nonsense. It's a
> beautiful media center front end. I actually just got a 'NexBox' in that
> runs android, outputs 4K, which I can't do with my current media center
> setup. I've been excited to play around with it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
> And the people with the Kodi boxes, usually the people who barely know how
> to use a computer, are they answering ads in the back of magazines or
> something?  They seem to expect something like the analog TV converter
> boxes, you plug it in and get free live TV.  Must be legal because I bought
> a box.  And for tech support, call your ISP.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *That One Guy
> /sarcasm
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:54 PM
>
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
> Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating right now. I
> won't offer any support for any issue unless it's a vanilla stick. These
> things are blatantly illegal l

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Nate Burke]

I think customers for the most part still associate 'big' and 'heavy' 
with Quality.  I was just a customers house this week where he took out 
a 951 I was providing (for free) to put in a giant linksys $300 router.  
But now he says his wifi works down the street and around the corner.  I 
find that hard to believe, but it's physically much bigger than the 951, 
so it  must be much better... Maybe we should start going back to like 8 
pound power bricks the size of a desktop computer.  Then our internet 
would be better than comcast.




On 10/15/2016 3:11 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Pretty much the same here.  Lease a managed router from us for 
$5/month, or if you buy one at the store head for the $70 to $100 
price range.  Less they probably cut corners, more and you’re probably 
wasting money.


Our leased routers are Mikrotik 951G, we just got some hAP AC in to 
consider as a dual band AC solution.  We like the ability to manage 
the Mikrotik routers but they don’t really give us a solution for 
customers who want a fancy router, or to take management to the next 
level (application level QoS, customer dashboard).  The answer for 
that is probably Calix, but our customer base mostly shops at WalMart 
and Dollar General, I’m not sure we have enough demand for a Calix 
class router.  There are a few who would want something like that, but 
it’s probably well under 5%, unless we subsidize them.


I only push the leased routers so hard, actually I think it’s a better 
deal for the customer than for us, if they want to buy a router and 
hope it lasts 5 years they are welcome to. Unfortunately this means 
the people taking the leased router may be the people who just don’t 
have the money to buy a router we’ll be shutting them off for 
nonpayment in a couple months and trying to get our router back.


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Joe Novak
*Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:31 PM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

What are you recommending on routers now Ken?

Our spiel usually includes netgear and spend no more then 100$. 
Especially for the people on the 3mbit and 5mbit plans. We've been 
doing good at converting these people that don't want to mess with it 
to our rental router. (Zyxel 2.4ghz) for 5/month.


On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com 
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:


I’m still waiting to run into a customer with a media library to
justify the $400 WiFi router some kid in the store sold them so
they could have multigigabit WiFi in their house.  Cuz if your
only source of content is your 25 Mbps Internet connection, I’m
missing why you need that AC5300 router.  And honestly, if I had a
media center with locally stored content streaming 4K video around
the house, I’d figure a way to run a cable to the big screens. 
Why spend all that money and then cheap out by using WiFi,

especially since that 60 inch TV isn’t exactly portable unless
it’s on wheels.

*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *Joe Novak
*Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:09 PM


*To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
    *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

It makes me sad that Kodi got associated with all of the nonsense.
It's a beautiful media center front end. I actually just got a
'NexBox' in that runs android, outputs 4K, which I can't do with
my current media center setup. I've been excited to play around
with it.

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

And the people with the Kodi boxes, usually the people who
barely know how to use a computer, are they answering ads in
the back of magazines or something?  They seem to expect
something like the analog TV converter boxes, you plug it in
and get free live TV.  Must be legal because I bought a box. 
And for tech support, call your ISP.


*From:*Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com
<mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf Of *That One Guy
/sarcasm
*Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:54 PM


    *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating
right now. I won't offer any support for any issue unless it's
a vanilla stick. These things are blatantly illegal like the
black box descramblers for satellite days.

People are dropping malicious operating systems in the middle
of their trusted network left and right for "free" tv. God
only knows what iot bot net activity is also causing their
xhamster buffering

On Oct 15, 2016 12:48 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Ken Hohhof]

Pretty much the same here.  Lease a managed router from us for $5/month, or if 
you buy one at the store head for the $70 to $100 price range.  Less they 
probably cut corners, more and you’re probably wasting money.

 

Our leased routers are Mikrotik 951G, we just got some hAP AC in to consider as 
a dual band AC solution.  We like the ability to manage the Mikrotik routers 
but they don’t really give us a solution for customers who want a fancy router, 
or to take management to the next level (application level QoS, customer 
dashboard).  The answer for that is probably Calix, but our customer base 
mostly shops at WalMart and Dollar General, I’m not sure we have enough demand 
for a Calix class router.  There are a few who would want something like that, 
but it’s probably well under 5%, unless we subsidize them.

 

I only push the leased routers so hard, actually I think it’s a better deal for 
the customer than for us, if they want to buy a router and hope it lasts 5 
years they are welcome to.  Unfortunately this means the people taking the 
leased router may be the people who just don’t have the money to buy a router 
we’ll be shutting them off for nonpayment in a couple months and trying to get 
our router back.

 

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Joe Novak
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:31 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

What are you recommending on routers now Ken?

 

Our spiel usually includes netgear and spend no more then 100$. Especially for 
the people on the 3mbit and 5mbit plans. We've been doing good at converting 
these people that don't want to mess with it to our rental router. (Zyxel 
2.4ghz) for 5/month. 

 

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com 
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

I’m still waiting to run into a customer with a media library to justify the 
$400 WiFi router some kid in the store sold them so they could have 
multigigabit WiFi in their house.  Cuz if your only source of content is your 
25 Mbps Internet connection, I’m missing why you need that AC5300 router.  And 
honestly, if I had a media center with locally stored content streaming 4K 
video around the house, I’d figure a way to run a cable to the big screens.  
Why spend all that money and then cheap out by using WiFi, especially since 
that 60 inch TV isn’t exactly portable unless it’s on wheels.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> ] On Behalf 
Of Joe Novak
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:09 PM


To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

It makes me sad that Kodi got associated with all of the nonsense. It's a 
beautiful media center front end. I actually just got a 'NexBox' in that runs 
android, outputs 4K, which I can't do with my current media center setup. I've 
been excited to play around with it. 

 

 

 

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com 
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

And the people with the Kodi boxes, usually the people who barely know how to 
use a computer, are they answering ads in the back of magazines or something?  
They seem to expect something like the analog TV converter boxes, you plug it 
in and get free live TV.  Must be legal because I bought a box.  And for tech 
support, call your ISP.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> ] On Behalf 
Of That One Guy /sarcasm
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:54 PM


To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating right now. I won't 
offer any support for any issue unless it's a vanilla stick. These things are 
blatantly illegal like the black box descramblers for satellite days. 

People are dropping malicious operating systems in the middle of their trusted 
network left and right for "free" tv. God only knows what iot bot net activity 
is also causing their xhamster buffering

 

On Oct 15, 2016 12:48 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com 
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a 
confusing moment...

 

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 

Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

 

I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is an earlier Netflix 
interface but I actually like it better than the modern interface.

 

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

 

- Reply message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com> >
To: <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >
Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM

 

In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through 

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Joe Novak]

What are you recommending on routers now Ken?

Our spiel usually includes netgear and spend no more then 100$. Especially
for the people on the 3mbit and 5mbit plans. We've been doing good at
converting these people that don't want to mess with it to our rental
router. (Zyxel 2.4ghz) for 5/month.

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:23 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

> I’m still waiting to run into a customer with a media library to justify
> the $400 WiFi router some kid in the store sold them so they could have
> multigigabit WiFi in their house.  Cuz if your only source of content is
> your 25 Mbps Internet connection, I’m missing why you need that AC5300
> router.  And honestly, if I had a media center with locally stored content
> streaming 4K video around the house, I’d figure a way to run a cable to the
> big screens.  Why spend all that money and then cheap out by using WiFi,
> especially since that 60 inch TV isn’t exactly portable unless it’s on
> wheels.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Joe Novak
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:09 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
> It makes me sad that Kodi got associated with all of the nonsense. It's a
> beautiful media center front end. I actually just got a 'NexBox' in that
> runs android, outputs 4K, which I can't do with my current media center
> setup. I've been excited to play around with it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
> And the people with the Kodi boxes, usually the people who barely know how
> to use a computer, are they answering ads in the back of magazines or
> something?  They seem to expect something like the analog TV converter
> boxes, you plug it in and get free live TV.  Must be legal because I bought
> a box.  And for tech support, call your ISP.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *That One Guy
> /sarcasm
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:54 PM
>
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
> Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating right now. I
> won't offer any support for any issue unless it's a vanilla stick. These
> things are blatantly illegal like the black box descramblers for satellite
> days.
>
> People are dropping malicious operating systems in the middle of their
> trusted network left and right for "free" tv. God only knows what iot bot
> net activity is also causing their xhamster buffering
>
>
>
> On Oct 15, 2016 12:48 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
> I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a
> confusing moment...
>
>
>
> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
>
>
> I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is an earlier
> Netflix interface but I actually like it better than the modern
> interface.
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>
>
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
> To: <af@afmug.com>
> Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM
>
>
>
> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the
> procedure to update the app on the smart TV?
>
>
>
> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of the
> early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Joe Novak
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
> In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix
> 'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming
> boxes usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good too.
> Direct TV has shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far as we
> could tell.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
> The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is
> actually stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a long
> time to buffer but was fine once the picture appeared.  That’s what got me
> to thinking the latest complaint was impatience with how long it took
> before the video started playing, not problems while it was playing.  The
> next challen

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Josh Reynolds]

Running cable takes work and people are lazy.

(I have a bunch of OM4 I need to run and 2 boxes of cat6 sitting there, so
I can't really say crap!)

On Oct 15, 2016 1:23 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

> I’m still waiting to run into a customer with a media library to justify
> the $400 WiFi router some kid in the store sold them so they could have
> multigigabit WiFi in their house.  Cuz if your only source of content is
> your 25 Mbps Internet connection, I’m missing why you need that AC5300
> router.  And honestly, if I had a media center with locally stored content
> streaming 4K video around the house, I’d figure a way to run a cable to the
> big screens.  Why spend all that money and then cheap out by using WiFi,
> especially since that 60 inch TV isn’t exactly portable unless it’s on
> wheels.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Joe Novak
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:09 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
> It makes me sad that Kodi got associated with all of the nonsense. It's a
> beautiful media center front end. I actually just got a 'NexBox' in that
> runs android, outputs 4K, which I can't do with my current media center
> setup. I've been excited to play around with it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
> And the people with the Kodi boxes, usually the people who barely know how
> to use a computer, are they answering ads in the back of magazines or
> something?  They seem to expect something like the analog TV converter
> boxes, you plug it in and get free live TV.  Must be legal because I bought
> a box.  And for tech support, call your ISP.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *That One Guy
> /sarcasm
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:54 PM
>
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
> Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating right now. I
> won't offer any support for any issue unless it's a vanilla stick. These
> things are blatantly illegal like the black box descramblers for satellite
> days.
>
> People are dropping malicious operating systems in the middle of their
> trusted network left and right for "free" tv. God only knows what iot bot
> net activity is also causing their xhamster buffering
>
>
>
> On Oct 15, 2016 12:48 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
> I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a
> confusing moment...
>
>
>
> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
>
>
> I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is an earlier
> Netflix interface but I actually like it better than the modern
> interface.
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>
>
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
> To: <af@afmug.com>
> Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM
>
>
>
> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the
> procedure to update the app on the smart TV?
>
>
>
> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of the
> early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Joe Novak
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
> In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix
> 'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming
> boxes usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good too.
> Direct TV has shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far as we
> could tell.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
> The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is
> actually stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a long
> time to buffer but was fine once the picture appeared.  That’s what got me
> to thinking the latest complaint was impatience with how long it took
> before the video started playing, not problems while it was playing.  The
> next challenge is to find out what streaming service he is using, people
> tend to call them all “Netflix”.  But I rarely hear about Netflix stopping
> to b

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Ken Hohhof]

I’m still waiting to run into a customer with a media library to justify the 
$400 WiFi router some kid in the store sold them so they could have 
multigigabit WiFi in their house.  Cuz if your only source of content is your 
25 Mbps Internet connection, I’m missing why you need that AC5300 router.  And 
honestly, if I had a media center with locally stored content streaming 4K 
video around the house, I’d figure a way to run a cable to the big screens.  
Why spend all that money and then cheap out by using WiFi, especially since 
that 60 inch TV isn’t exactly portable unless it’s on wheels.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Joe Novak
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 1:09 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

It makes me sad that Kodi got associated with all of the nonsense. It's a 
beautiful media center front end. I actually just got a 'NexBox' in that runs 
android, outputs 4K, which I can't do with my current media center setup. I've 
been excited to play around with it. 

 

 

 

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com 
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

And the people with the Kodi boxes, usually the people who barely know how to 
use a computer, are they answering ads in the back of magazines or something?  
They seem to expect something like the analog TV converter boxes, you plug it 
in and get free live TV.  Must be legal because I bought a box.  And for tech 
support, call your ISP.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> ] On Behalf 
Of That One Guy /sarcasm
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:54 PM


To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating right now. I won't 
offer any support for any issue unless it's a vanilla stick. These things are 
blatantly illegal like the black box descramblers for satellite days. 

People are dropping malicious operating systems in the middle of their trusted 
network left and right for "free" tv. God only knows what iot bot net activity 
is also causing their xhamster buffering

 

On Oct 15, 2016 12:48 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com 
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a 
confusing moment...

 

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 

Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

 

I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is an earlier Netflix 
interface but I actually like it better than the modern interface.

 

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

 

- Reply message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com> >
To: <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >
Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM

 

In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the procedure to 
update the app on the smart TV?

 

Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of the 
early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.

 

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> ] On Behalf 
Of Joe Novak
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix 
'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming boxes 
usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good too. Direct TV has 
shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far as we could tell. 

 

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com 
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is actually 
stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a long time to buffer 
but was fine once the picture appeared.  That’s what got me to thinking the 
latest complaint was impatience with how long it took before the video started 
playing, not problems while it was playing.  The next challenge is to find out 
what streaming service he is using, people tend to call them all “Netflix”.  
But I rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because Netflix can switch 
stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix and it is stopping and 
starting, in my experience it’s usually something other than just slow 
Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out, or packet loss, or a Windows 10 download 
overloading the connection.

 

We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of their 
“smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming service, but there 
is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old fashioned TV – 

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Josh Reynolds]

... What?

I have a few fireTVs (box, not the sticks - well I have 1 stick but its for
travel). They're not rooted, but I sideload Kodi on to them and then
connect them to my media server / storage array.

Love them.

On Oct 15, 2016 12:53 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating right now. I
> won't offer any support for any issue unless it's a vanilla stick. These
> things are blatantly illegal like the black box descramblers for satellite
> days.
>
> People are dropping malicious operating systems in the middle of their
> trusted network left and right for "free" tv. God only knows what iot bot
> net activity is also causing their xhamster buffering
>
> On Oct 15, 2016 12:48 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
>> I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a
>> confusing moment...
>>
>> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>>
>>
>> I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is an earlier
>> Netflix interface but I actually like it better than the modern
>> interface.
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>>
>> - Reply message -
>> From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
>> To: <af@afmug.com>
>> Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>> Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM
>>
>>
>> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the
>> procedure to update the app on the smart TV?
>>
>>
>>
>> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of
>> the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Joe Novak
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>>
>>
>>
>> In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix
>> 'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming
>> boxes usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good too.
>> Direct TV has shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far as we
>> could tell.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>>
>> The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is
>> actually stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a long
>> time to buffer but was fine once the picture appeared.  That’s what got me
>> to thinking the latest complaint was impatience with how long it took
>> before the video started playing, not problems while it was playing.  The
>> next challenge is to find out what streaming service he is using, people
>> tend to call them all “Netflix”.  But I rarely hear about Netflix stopping
>> to buffer because Netflix can switch stream rates on the fly, if it’s
>> actually Netflix and it is stopping and starting, in my experience it’s
>> usually something other than just slow Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out,
>> or packet loss, or a Windows 10 download overloading the connection.
>>
>>
>>
>> We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of their
>> “smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming service, but
>> there is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old fashioned TV – your
>> Internet is too slow.  I had a customer call because she couldn’t watch an
>> online class on her computer which was telling her “you  are  not connected
>> to a network”, and there was an airplane symbol in the lower right.  Tech
>> support for the online college told her that meant her Internet was too
>> slow.  I was tempted to tell her the airplane symbol actually meant her
>> Internet was really fast (it’s flying), otherwise it would show a car or a
>> turtle.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>>
>>
>>
>> I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, October 14, 2016 8:34 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: 

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Joe Novak]

It makes me sad that Kodi got associated with all of the nonsense. It's a
beautiful media center front end. I actually just got a 'NexBox' in that
runs android, outputs 4K, which I can't do with my current media center
setup. I've been excited to play around with it.



On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

> And the people with the Kodi boxes, usually the people who barely know how
> to use a computer, are they answering ads in the back of magazines or
> something?  They seem to expect something like the analog TV converter
> boxes, you plug it in and get free live TV.  Must be legal because I bought
> a box.  And for tech support, call your ISP.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *That One Guy
> /sarcasm
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:54 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
> Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating right now. I
> won't offer any support for any issue unless it's a vanilla stick. These
> things are blatantly illegal like the black box descramblers for satellite
> days.
>
> People are dropping malicious operating systems in the middle of their
> trusted network left and right for "free" tv. God only knows what iot bot
> net activity is also causing their xhamster buffering
>
>
>
> On Oct 15, 2016 12:48 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
> I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a
> confusing moment...
>
>
>
> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
>
>
> I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is an earlier
> Netflix interface but I actually like it better than the modern
> interface.
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>
>
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
> To: <af@afmug.com>
> Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM
>
>
>
> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the
> procedure to update the app on the smart TV?
>
>
>
> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of the
> early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Joe Novak
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
> In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix
> 'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming
> boxes usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good too.
> Direct TV has shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far as we
> could tell.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
> The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is
> actually stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a long
> time to buffer but was fine once the picture appeared.  That’s what got me
> to thinking the latest complaint was impatience with how long it took
> before the video started playing, not problems while it was playing.  The
> next challenge is to find out what streaming service he is using, people
> tend to call them all “Netflix”.  But I rarely hear about Netflix stopping
> to buffer because Netflix can switch stream rates on the fly, if it’s
> actually Netflix and it is stopping and starting, in my experience it’s
> usually something other than just slow Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out,
> or packet loss, or a Windows 10 download overloading the connection.
>
>
>
> We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of their
> “smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming service, but
> there is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old fashioned TV – your
> Internet is too slow.  I had a customer call because she couldn’t watch an
> online class on her computer which was telling her “you  are  not connected
> to a network”, and there was an airplane symbol in the lower right.  Tech
> support for the online college told her that meant her Internet was too
> slow.  I was tempted to tell her the airplane symbol actually meant her
> Internet was really fast (it’s flying), otherwise it would show a car or a
> turtle.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *Chu

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Ken Hohhof]

And the people with the Kodi boxes, usually the people who barely know how to 
use a computer, are they answering ads in the back of magazines or something?  
They seem to expect something like the analog TV converter boxes, you plug it 
in and get free live TV.  Must be legal because I bought a box.  And for tech 
support, call your ISP.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:54 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating right now. I won't 
offer any support for any issue unless it's a vanilla stick. These things are 
blatantly illegal like the black box descramblers for satellite days. 

People are dropping malicious operating systems in the middle of their trusted 
network left and right for "free" tv. God only knows what iot bot net activity 
is also causing their xhamster buffering

 

On Oct 15, 2016 12:48 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com 
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a 
confusing moment...

 

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 

Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

 

I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is an earlier Netflix 
interface but I actually like it better than the modern interface.

 

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

 

- Reply message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com> >
To: <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >
Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM

 

In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the procedure to 
update the app on the smart TV?

 

Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of the 
early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.

 

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> ] On Behalf 
Of Joe Novak
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix 
'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming boxes 
usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good too. Direct TV has 
shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far as we could tell. 

 

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com 
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is actually 
stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a long time to buffer 
but was fine once the picture appeared.  That’s what got me to thinking the 
latest complaint was impatience with how long it took before the video started 
playing, not problems while it was playing.  The next challenge is to find out 
what streaming service he is using, people tend to call them all “Netflix”.  
But I rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because Netflix can switch 
stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix and it is stopping and 
starting, in my experience it’s usually something other than just slow 
Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out, or packet loss, or a Windows 10 download 
overloading the connection.

 

We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of their 
“smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming service, but there 
is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old fashioned TV – your Internet is 
too slow.  I had a customer call because she couldn’t watch an online class on 
her computer which was telling her “you  are  not connected to a network”, and 
there was an airplane symbol in the lower right.  Tech support for the online 
college told her that meant her Internet was too slow.  I was tempted to tell 
her the airplane symbol actually meant her Internet was really fast (it’s 
flying), otherwise it would show a car or a turtle.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering.  

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 8:34 PM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

But that’s not what I’m talking about.  I’m wondering if when a customer talks 
about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for the video to start 
playing.

 

And maybe I’m confused because I assume everyone is using Netflix.  And I’m 
pretty sure Netflix starts the stream at a low quality so it starts quickly, 
and then ramps up the quality as the

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Chuck McCown]

I was visualizing a smart TV with a Netscape interface.

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:51 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

After he updated Netscape he got Firefox which evolved to Chrome.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Oct 15, 2016 1:48 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a 
confusing moment...

  From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
  Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"


  I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is an earlier Netflix 
interface but I actually like it better than the modern interface.

  Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

  - Reply message -
  From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
  To: <af@afmug.com>
  Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
  Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM

  In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the procedure 
to update the app on the smart TV?



  Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of the 
early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.







  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Joe Novak
  Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"



  In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix 
'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming boxes 
usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good too. Direct TV has 
shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far as we could tell. 



  On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is 
actually stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a long time 
to buffer but was fine once the picture appeared.  That’s what got me to 
thinking the latest complaint was impatience with how long it took before the 
video started playing, not problems while it was playing.  The next challenge 
is to find out what streaming service he is using, people tend to call them all 
“Netflix”.  But I rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because Netflix 
can switch stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix and it is stopping 
and starting, in my experience it’s usually something other than just slow 
Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out, or packet loss, or a Windows 10 download 
overloading the connection.



We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of their 
“smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming service, but there 
is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old fashioned TV – your Internet is 
too slow.  I had a customer call because she couldn’t watch an online class on 
her computer which was telling her “you  are  not connected to a network”, and 
there was an airplane symbol in the lower right.  Tech support for the online 
college told her that meant her Internet was too slow.  I was tempted to tell 
her the airplane symbol actually meant her Internet was really fast (it’s 
flying), otherwise it would show a car or a turtle.





From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
    Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"



I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering.  



From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 8:34 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"



But that’s not what I’m talking about.  I’m wondering if when a customer 
talks about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for the video to start 
playing.



And maybe I’m confused because I assume everyone is using Netflix.  And I’m 
pretty sure Netflix starts the stream at a low quality so it starts quickly, 
and then ramps up the quality as the buffer fills, since their technology 
allows changing the stream quality on the fly.  Other services like maybe Hulu 
and Amazon Prime may behave differently.



Also with my default assumption that people are using Netflix, I don’t 
expect rebuffering because it’s been years since Netflix needed to stop and 
rebuffer at a lower stream rate, I think they do that pretty seamlessly now.





From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 9:09 PM
To: af <af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"



Well, people certainly want connections that support multiple streams. 
Paying for it, I'm not so sure about... at least around these parts.



On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> wrote:

  Have you ever

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Don't forget these rooted amazon firesticks are dominating right now. I
won't offer any support for any issue unless it's a vanilla stick. These
things are blatantly illegal like the black box descramblers for satellite
days.

People are dropping malicious operating systems in the middle of their
trusted network left and right for "free" tv. God only knows what iot bot
net activity is also causing their xhamster buffering

On Oct 15, 2016 12:48 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a
> confusing moment...
>
> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
> I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is an earlier
> Netflix interface but I actually like it better than the modern
> interface.
>
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
> To: <af@afmug.com>
> Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM
>
>
> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the
> procedure to update the app on the smart TV?
>
>
>
> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of the
> early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Joe Novak
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
> In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix
> 'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming
> boxes usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good too.
> Direct TV has shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far as we
> could tell.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
> The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is
> actually stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a long
> time to buffer but was fine once the picture appeared.  That’s what got me
> to thinking the latest complaint was impatience with how long it took
> before the video started playing, not problems while it was playing.  The
> next challenge is to find out what streaming service he is using, people
> tend to call them all “Netflix”.  But I rarely hear about Netflix stopping
> to buffer because Netflix can switch stream rates on the fly, if it’s
> actually Netflix and it is stopping and starting, in my experience it’s
> usually something other than just slow Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out,
> or packet loss, or a Windows 10 download overloading the connection.
>
>
>
> We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of their
> “smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming service, but
> there is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old fashioned TV – your
> Internet is too slow.  I had a customer call because she couldn’t watch an
> online class on her computer which was telling her “you  are  not connected
> to a network”, and there was an airplane symbol in the lower right.  Tech
> support for the online college told her that meant her Internet was too
> slow.  I was tempted to tell her the airplane symbol actually meant her
> Internet was really fast (it’s flying), otherwise it would show a car or a
> turtle.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
> I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering.
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>
> *Sent:* Friday, October 14, 2016 8:34 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
> But that’s not what I’m talking about.  I’m wondering if when a customer
> talks about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for the video to
> start playing.
>
>
>
> And maybe I’m confused because I assume everyone is using Netflix.  And
> I’m pretty sure Netflix starts the stream at a low quality so it starts
> quickly, and then ramps up the quality as the buffer fills, since their
> technology allows changing the stream quality on the fly.  Other services
> like maybe Hulu and Amazon Prime may behave differently.
>
>
>
> Also with my default assumption that people are using Netflix, I don’t
> expect rebuffering because it’s been years since Netflix needed to stop

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Josh Luthman]

After he updated Netscape he got Firefox which evolved to Chrome.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Oct 15, 2016 1:48 PM, "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a
> confusing moment...
>
> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
> I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is an earlier
> Netflix interface but I actually like it better than the modern
> interface.
>
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
> To: <af@afmug.com>
> Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
> Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM
>
>
> In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the
> procedure to update the app on the smart TV?
>
>
>
> Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of the
> early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Joe Novak
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
> In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix
> 'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming
> boxes usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good too.
> Direct TV has shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far as we
> could tell.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
> The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is
> actually stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a long
> time to buffer but was fine once the picture appeared.  That’s what got me
> to thinking the latest complaint was impatience with how long it took
> before the video started playing, not problems while it was playing.  The
> next challenge is to find out what streaming service he is using, people
> tend to call them all “Netflix”.  But I rarely hear about Netflix stopping
> to buffer because Netflix can switch stream rates on the fly, if it’s
> actually Netflix and it is stopping and starting, in my experience it’s
> usually something other than just slow Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out,
> or packet loss, or a Windows 10 download overloading the connection.
>
>
>
> We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of their
> “smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming service, but
> there is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old fashioned TV – your
> Internet is too slow.  I had a customer call because she couldn’t watch an
> online class on her computer which was telling her “you  are  not connected
> to a network”, and there was an airplane symbol in the lower right.  Tech
> support for the online college told her that meant her Internet was too
> slow.  I was tempted to tell her the airplane symbol actually meant her
> Internet was really fast (it’s flying), otherwise it would show a car or a
> turtle.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
> I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering.
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>
> *Sent:* Friday, October 14, 2016 8:34 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
> But that’s not what I’m talking about.  I’m wondering if when a customer
> talks about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for the video to
> start playing.
>
>
>
> And maybe I’m confused because I assume everyone is using Netflix.  And
> I’m pretty sure Netflix starts the stream at a low quality so it starts
> quickly, and then ramps up the quality as the buffer fills, since their
> technology allows changing the stream quality on the fly.  Other services
> like maybe Hulu and Amazon Prime may behave differently.
>
>
>
> Also with my default assumption that people are using Netflix, I don’t
> expect rebuffering because it’s been years since Netflix needed to stop and
> rebuffer at a lower stream rate, I think they do that pretty seamlessly now.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Friday, October 14, 2016 9:09 PM
> *To:* af <af@afmug.com>
> *Su

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Chuck McCown]

I read the word “Netflix” and my brain received “Netscape”. Talk about a 
confusing moment...

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:33 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"


I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is an earlier Netflix 
interface but I actually like it better than the modern interface.

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
To: <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM

In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the procedure to 
update the app on the smart TV?

 

Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of the 
early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.

 

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Joe Novak
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix 
'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming boxes 
usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good too. Direct TV has 
shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far as we could tell. 

 

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

  The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is actually 
stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a long time to buffer 
but was fine once the picture appeared.  That’s what got me to thinking the 
latest complaint was impatience with how long it took before the video started 
playing, not problems while it was playing.  The next challenge is to find out 
what streaming service he is using, people tend to call them all “Netflix”.  
But I rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because Netflix can switch 
stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix and it is stopping and 
starting, in my experience it’s usually something other than just slow 
Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out, or packet loss, or a Windows 10 download 
overloading the connection.

   

  We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of their 
“smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming service, but there 
is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old fashioned TV – your Internet is 
too slow.  I had a customer call because she couldn’t watch an online class on 
her computer which was telling her “you  are  not connected to a network”, and 
there was an airplane symbol in the lower right.  Tech support for the online 
college told her that meant her Internet was too slow.  I was tempted to tell 
her the airplane symbol actually meant her Internet was really fast (it’s 
flying), otherwise it would show a car or a turtle.

   

   

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

   

  I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering.  

   

  From: Ken Hohhof 

  Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 8:34 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

   

  But that’s not what I’m talking about.  I’m wondering if when a customer 
talks about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for the video to start 
playing.

   

  And maybe I’m confused because I assume everyone is using Netflix.  And I’m 
pretty sure Netflix starts the stream at a low quality so it starts quickly, 
and then ramps up the quality as the buffer fills, since their technology 
allows changing the stream quality on the fly.  Other services like maybe Hulu 
and Amazon Prime may behave differently.

   

  Also with my default assumption that people are using Netflix, I don’t expect 
rebuffering because it’s been years since Netflix needed to stop and rebuffer 
at a lower stream rate, I think they do that pretty seamlessly now.

   

   

  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
  Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 9:09 PM
  To: af <af@afmug.com>
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

   

  Well, people certainly want connections that support multiple streams. Paying 
for it, I'm not so sure about... at least around these parts.

   

  On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Have you ever seen a 1080p youtube video load on a 1GbE active-E FTTH ISP 
that has direct peering with Google from a router 2.5ms upstream?  It's a 
beautiful thing.

People will absolutely pay for connections that support multiple streams, 
take a typical family of 4 or 5 people with kids that want to watch videos on 
tablets simultaneously...

 

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

  When people say their video is “bu

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Ken Hohhof]

Do you have strings attached to the vertical hold knob so you can stop the 
picture from rolling without getting up from the couch?

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 12:33 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

 

I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is an earlier Netflix 
interface but I actually like it better than the modern interface.

 

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

 

- Reply message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com> >
To: <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >
Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM

 

In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the procedure to 
update the app on the smart TV?

 

Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of the 
early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.

 

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Joe Novak
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix 
'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming boxes 
usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good too. Direct TV has 
shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far as we could tell. 

 

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com 
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is actually 
stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a long time to buffer 
but was fine once the picture appeared.  That’s what got me to thinking the 
latest complaint was impatience with how long it took before the video started 
playing, not problems while it was playing.  The next challenge is to find out 
what streaming service he is using, people tend to call them all “Netflix”.  
But I rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because Netflix can switch 
stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix and it is stopping and 
starting, in my experience it’s usually something other than just slow 
Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out, or packet loss, or a Windows 10 download 
overloading the connection.

 

We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of their 
“smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming service, but there 
is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old fashioned TV – your Internet is 
too slow.  I had a customer call because she couldn’t watch an online class on 
her computer which was telling her “you  are  not connected to a network”, and 
there was an airplane symbol in the lower right.  Tech support for the online 
college told her that meant her Internet was too slow.  I was tempted to tell 
her the airplane symbol actually meant her Internet was really fast (it’s 
flying), otherwise it would show a car or a turtle.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> ] On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering.  

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 8:34 PM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

But that’s not what I’m talking about.  I’m wondering if when a customer talks 
about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for the video to start 
playing.

 

And maybe I’m confused because I assume everyone is using Netflix.  And I’m 
pretty sure Netflix starts the stream at a low quality so it starts quickly, 
and then ramps up the quality as the buffer fills, since their technology 
allows changing the stream quality on the fly.  Other services like maybe Hulu 
and Amazon Prime may behave differently.

 

Also with my default assumption that people are using Netflix, I don’t expect 
rebuffering because it’s been years since Netflix needed to stop and rebuffer 
at a lower stream rate, I think they do that pretty seamlessly now.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 9:09 PM
To: af <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

Well, people certainly want connections that support multiple streams. Paying 
for it, I'm not so sure about... at least around these parts.

 

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com 
<mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Have you ever seen a 1080p youtube video load on a 1GbE active-E FTTH ISP that 
has direct peering with Google from a router 2.5ms upstream?  It's a beautiful 
thi

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

I have a smart tv that works fine but won't update.  It is an earlier Netflix 
interface but I actually like it better than the modern interface.

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com>
To: <af@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] "buffering"
Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM

In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the procedure to 
update the app on the smart TV? Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be 
Samsung.  I know a lot of the early ones also didn’t seem to play well with 
certain WiFi routers.   From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Joe 
Novak
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of 
the new ones - the netflix 'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The 
Roku's and streaming boxes usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to 
do good too. Direct TV has shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as 
far as we could tell. 
On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:The most 
recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is actually stopping 
and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a long time to buffer but was 
fine once the picture appeared.  That’s what got me to thinking the latest 
complaint was impatience with how long it took before the video started 
playing, not problems while it was playing.  The next challenge is to find out 
what streaming service he is using, people tend to call them all “Netflix”.  
But I rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because Netflix can switch 
stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix and it is stopping and 
starting, in my experience it’s usually something other than just slow 
Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out, or packet loss, or a Windows 10 download 
overloading the connection. We have transitioned to the point where people sit 
down in front of their “smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what 
streaming service, but there is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old 
fashioned TV – your Internet is too slow.  I had a customer call because she 
couldn’t watch an online class on her computer which was telling her “you  are  
not connected to a network”, and there was an airplane symbol in the lower 
right.  Tech support for the online college told her that meant her Internet 
was too slow.  I was tempted to tell her the airplane symbol actually meant her 
Internet was really fast (it’s flying), otherwise it would show a car or a 
turtle.  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 8:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"


But that’s not what I’m talking about.  I’m wondering if when a customer talks 
about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for the video to start 
playing. And maybe I’m confused because I assume everyone is using Netflix.  
And I’m pretty sure Netflix starts the stream at a low quality so it starts 
quickly, and then ramps up the quality as the buffer fills, since their 
technology allows changing the stream quality on the fly.  Other services like 
maybe Hulu and Amazon Prime may behave differently. Also with my default 
assumption that people are using Netflix, I don’t expect rebuffering because 
it’s been years since Netflix needed to stop and rebuffer at a lower stream 
rate, I think they do that pretty seamlessly now.  From: Af 
[mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 9:09 PM
To: af <af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering" Well, people certainly want connections that 
support multiple streams. Paying for it, I'm not so sure about... at least 
around these parts.
On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> wrote:Have 
you ever seen a 1080p youtube video load on a 1GbE active-E FTTH ISP that has 
direct peering with Google from a router 2.5ms upstream?  It's a beautiful 
thing.
People will absolutely pay for connections that support multiple streams, take 
a typical family of 4 or 5 people with kids that want to watch videos on 
tablets simultaneously...
On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:When people 
say their video is “buffering”, I assume they mean re-buffering, where the 
video stops and starts. I’m starting to  wonder if some people are referring to 
the delay before the video starts playing.  Is this a thing?  And do people pay 
for faster Internet just to make the video start faster, like cut 15-20 seconds 
down to 5 or 10 seconds?

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Joe Novak]

Samsung is auto updating. So if you connect to the store to use the app it
updates automatically for the most part. I believe it is a hardware
limitation more then it's a app implementation. You may see poor results on
the TV sets older then 2014. They changed a lot of how the apps are allowed
to interact with the hardware since then... but I don't believe it was
possible to bring that to the older sets.

I do know some people with the problem TV sets moved to a roku like device
it worked much better overall.

It's not the rule but perhaps something to keep in mind.

I don't believe the older sets buffered anything at all. It was live or
nothing... it was a goofy implementation for apps. I believe it was running
a webapp engine on a weak processor with little to no local storage
available.

On Oct 15, 2016 12:10 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the procedure
to update the app on the smart TV?



Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of the
early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.







*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Joe Novak
*Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM

*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"



In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix
'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming
boxes usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good
too. Direct TV has shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far
as we could tell.



On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is
actually stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a long
time to buffer but was fine once the picture appeared.  That’s what got me
to thinking the latest complaint was impatience with how long it took
before the video started playing, not problems while it was playing.  The
next challenge is to find out what streaming service he is using, people
tend to call them all “Netflix”.  But I rarely hear about Netflix stopping
to buffer because Netflix can switch stream rates on the fly, if it’s
actually Netflix and it is stopping and starting, in my experience it’s
usually something other than just slow Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out,
or packet loss, or a Windows 10 download overloading the connection.



We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of their
“smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming service, but
there is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old fashioned TV – your
Internet is too slow.  I had a customer call because she couldn’t watch an
online class on her computer which was telling her “you  are  not connected
to a network”, and there was an airplane symbol in the lower right.  Tech
support for the online college told her that meant her Internet was too
slow.  I was tempted to tell her the airplane symbol actually meant her
Internet was really fast (it’s flying), otherwise it would show a car or a
turtle.





*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
*Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM
*To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"



I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering.



*From:* Ken Hohhof

*Sent:* Friday, October 14, 2016 8:34 PM

*To:* af@afmug.com

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"



But that’s not what I’m talking about.  I’m wondering if when a customer
talks about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for the video to
start playing.



And maybe I’m confused because I assume everyone is using Netflix.  And I’m
pretty sure Netflix starts the stream at a low quality so it starts
quickly, and then ramps up the quality as the buffer fills, since their
technology allows changing the stream quality on the fly.  Other services
like maybe Hulu and Amazon Prime may behave differently.



Also with my default assumption that people are using Netflix, I don’t
expect rebuffering because it’s been years since Netflix needed to stop and
rebuffer at a lower stream rate, I think they do that pretty seamlessly now.





*From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On Behalf
Of *Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Friday, October 14, 2016 9:09 PM
*To:* af <af@afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"



Well, people certainly want connections that support multiple streams.
Paying for it, I'm not so sure about... at least around these parts.



On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Have you ever seen a 1080p youtube video load on a 1GbE active-E FTTH ISP
that has direct peering with Google from a router 2.5ms upstream?  It's a
beautiful thing.

People will absolutely pay for connections that support multiple streams,
take 

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Ken Hohhof]

In your experience, does it help if the customer goes through the procedure to 
update the app on the smart TV?

 

Most of the smart TVs we run into seem to be Samsung.  I know a lot of the 
early ones also didn’t seem to play well with certain WiFi routers.

 

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Joe Novak
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 11:59 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix 
'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming boxes 
usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good too. Direct TV has 
shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far as we could tell. 

 

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com 
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is actually 
stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a long time to buffer 
but was fine once the picture appeared.  That’s what got me to thinking the 
latest complaint was impatience with how long it took before the video started 
playing, not problems while it was playing.  The next challenge is to find out 
what streaming service he is using, people tend to call them all “Netflix”.  
But I rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because Netflix can switch 
stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix and it is stopping and 
starting, in my experience it’s usually something other than just slow 
Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out, or packet loss, or a Windows 10 download 
overloading the connection.

 

We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of their 
“smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming service, but there 
is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old fashioned TV – your Internet is 
too slow.  I had a customer call because she couldn’t watch an online class on 
her computer which was telling her “you  are  not connected to a network”, and 
there was an airplane symbol in the lower right.  Tech support for the online 
college told her that meant her Internet was too slow.  I was tempted to tell 
her the airplane symbol actually meant her Internet was really fast (it’s 
flying), otherwise it would show a car or a turtle.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> ] On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering.  

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 8:34 PM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

But that’s not what I’m talking about.  I’m wondering if when a customer talks 
about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for the video to start 
playing.

 

And maybe I’m confused because I assume everyone is using Netflix.  And I’m 
pretty sure Netflix starts the stream at a low quality so it starts quickly, 
and then ramps up the quality as the buffer fills, since their technology 
allows changing the stream quality on the fly.  Other services like maybe Hulu 
and Amazon Prime may behave differently.

 

Also with my default assumption that people are using Netflix, I don’t expect 
rebuffering because it’s been years since Netflix needed to stop and rebuffer 
at a lower stream rate, I think they do that pretty seamlessly now.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 9:09 PM
To: af <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

Well, people certainly want connections that support multiple streams. Paying 
for it, I'm not so sure about... at least around these parts.

 

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com 
<mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Have you ever seen a 1080p youtube video load on a 1GbE active-E FTTH ISP that 
has direct peering with Google from a router 2.5ms upstream?  It's a beautiful 
thing.

People will absolutely pay for connections that support multiple streams, take 
a typical family of 4 or 5 people with kids that want to watch videos on 
tablets simultaneously...

 

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com 
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

When people say their video is “buffering”, I assume they mean re-buffering, 
where the video stops and starts.

 

I’m starting to  wonder if some people are referring to the delay before the 
video starts playing.  Is this a thing?  And do people pay for faster Internet 
just to make the video start faster, like cut 15-20 seconds down to 5 or 10 
seconds?

 

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Joe Novak]

In a lot of the early smart TVs - even some of the new ones - the netflix
'smart' modulation did not work well if at all. The Roku's and streaming
boxes usually have perfect support for it. Hulu seems to do good
too. Direct TV has shit poor bandwidth management, and poor peering as far
as we could tell.

On Sat, Oct 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

> The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is
> actually stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a long
> time to buffer but was fine once the picture appeared.  That’s what got me
> to thinking the latest complaint was impatience with how long it took
> before the video started playing, not problems while it was playing.  The
> next challenge is to find out what streaming service he is using, people
> tend to call them all “Netflix”.  But I rarely hear about Netflix stopping
> to buffer because Netflix can switch stream rates on the fly, if it’s
> actually Netflix and it is stopping and starting, in my experience it’s
> usually something other than just slow Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out,
> or packet loss, or a Windows 10 download overloading the connection.
>
>
>
> We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of their
> “smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming service, but
> there is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old fashioned TV – your
> Internet is too slow.  I had a customer call because she couldn’t watch an
> online class on her computer which was telling her “you  are  not connected
> to a network”, and there was an airplane symbol in the lower right.  Tech
> support for the online college told her that meant her Internet was too
> slow.  I was tempted to tell her the airplane symbol actually meant her
> Internet was really fast (it’s flying), otherwise it would show a car or a
> turtle.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
> I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering.
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>
> *Sent:* Friday, October 14, 2016 8:34 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
> But that’s not what I’m talking about.  I’m wondering if when a customer
> talks about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for the video to
> start playing.
>
>
>
> And maybe I’m confused because I assume everyone is using Netflix.  And
> I’m pretty sure Netflix starts the stream at a low quality so it starts
> quickly, and then ramps up the quality as the buffer fills, since their
> technology allows changing the stream quality on the fly.  Other services
> like maybe Hulu and Amazon Prime may behave differently.
>
>
>
> Also with my default assumption that people are using Netflix, I don’t
> expect rebuffering because it’s been years since Netflix needed to stop and
> rebuffer at a lower stream rate, I think they do that pretty seamlessly now.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <af-boun...@afmug.com>] *On
> Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Friday, October 14, 2016 9:09 PM
> *To:* af <af@afmug.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
> Well, people certainly want connections that support multiple streams.
> Paying for it, I'm not so sure about... at least around these parts.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Have you ever seen a 1080p youtube video load on a 1GbE active-E FTTH ISP
> that has direct peering with Google from a router 2.5ms upstream?  It's a
> beautiful thing.
>
> People will absolutely pay for connections that support multiple streams,
> take a typical family of 4 or 5 people with kids that want to watch videos
> on tablets simultaneously...
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
> When people say their video is “buffering”, I assume they mean
> re-buffering, where the video stops and starts.
>
>
>
> I’m starting to  wonder if some people are referring to the delay before
> the video starts playing.  Is this a thing?  And do people pay for faster
> Internet just to make the video start faster, like cut 15-20 seconds down
> to 5 or 10 seconds?
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Ken Hohhof]

The most recent customer I think I’ve gotten to clarify the video is actually 
stopping and starting.  Previously he was saying it took a long time to buffer 
but was fine once the picture appeared.  That’s what got me to thinking the 
latest complaint was impatience with how long it took before the video started 
playing, not problems while it was playing.  The next challenge is to find out 
what streaming service he is using, people tend to call them all “Netflix”.  
But I rarely hear about Netflix stopping to buffer because Netflix can switch 
stream rates on the fly, if it’s actually Netflix and it is stopping and 
starting, in my experience it’s usually something other than just slow 
Internet.  Like WiFi dropping out, or packet loss, or a Windows 10 download 
overloading the connection.

 

We have transitioned to the point where people sit down in front of their 
“smart TV” and expect to watch TV, who knows what streaming service, but there 
is only one answer if it doesn’t work like old fashioned TV – your Internet is 
too slow.  I had a customer call because she couldn’t watch an online class on 
her computer which was telling her “you  are  not connected to a network”, and 
there was an airplane symbol in the lower right.  Tech support for the online 
college told her that meant her Internet was too slow.  I was tempted to tell 
her the airplane symbol actually meant her Internet was really fast (it’s 
flying), otherwise it would show a car or a turtle.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, October 15, 2016 10:29 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering.  

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 8:34 PM

To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

But that’s not what I’m talking about.  I’m wondering if when a customer talks 
about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for the video to start 
playing.

 

And maybe I’m confused because I assume everyone is using Netflix.  And I’m 
pretty sure Netflix starts the stream at a low quality so it starts quickly, 
and then ramps up the quality as the buffer fills, since their technology 
allows changing the stream quality on the fly.  Other services like maybe Hulu 
and Amazon Prime may behave differently.

 

Also with my default assumption that people are using Netflix, I don’t expect 
rebuffering because it’s been years since Netflix needed to stop and rebuffer 
at a lower stream rate, I think they do that pretty seamlessly now.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 9:09 PM
To: af <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

Well, people certainly want connections that support multiple streams. Paying 
for it, I'm not so sure about... at least around these parts.

 

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com 
<mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Have you ever seen a 1080p youtube video load on a 1GbE active-E FTTH ISP that 
has direct peering with Google from a router 2.5ms upstream?  It's a beautiful 
thing.

People will absolutely pay for connections that support multiple streams, take 
a typical family of 4 or 5 people with kids that want to watch videos on 
tablets simultaneously...

 

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com 
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

When people say their video is “buffering”, I assume they mean re-buffering, 
where the video stops and starts.

 

I’m starting to  wonder if some people are referring to the delay before the 
video starts playing.  Is this a thing?  And do people pay for faster Internet 
just to make the video start faster, like cut 15-20 seconds down to 5 or 10 
seconds?

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Chuck McCown]

I presume the circle thing is spinning when people say buffering.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 8:34 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

But that’s not what I’m talking about.  I’m wondering if when a customer talks 
about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for the video to start 
playing.

 

And maybe I’m confused because I assume everyone is using Netflix.  And I’m 
pretty sure Netflix starts the stream at a low quality so it starts quickly, 
and then ramps up the quality as the buffer fills, since their technology 
allows changing the stream quality on the fly.  Other services like maybe Hulu 
and Amazon Prime may behave differently.

 

Also with my default assumption that people are using Netflix, I don’t expect 
rebuffering because it’s been years since Netflix needed to stop and rebuffer 
at a lower stream rate, I think they do that pretty seamlessly now.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 9:09 PM
To: af <af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

Well, people certainly want connections that support multiple streams. Paying 
for it, I'm not so sure about... at least around these parts.

 

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com> wrote:

  Have you ever seen a 1080p youtube video load on a 1GbE active-E FTTH ISP 
that has direct peering with Google from a router 2.5ms upstream?  It's a 
beautiful thing.

  People will absolutely pay for connections that support multiple streams, 
take a typical family of 4 or 5 people with kids that want to watch videos on 
tablets simultaneously...

   

  On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

When people say their video is “buffering”, I assume they mean 
re-buffering, where the video stops and starts.

 

I’m starting to  wonder if some people are referring to the delay before 
the video starts playing.  Is this a thing?  And do people pay for faster 
Internet just to make the video start faster, like cut 15-20 seconds down to 5 
or 10 seconds?

   

 

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Bill Prince]

I think it's both, and if you need to know, I guess you need to ask.


bp


On 10/14/2016 6:49 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


When people say their video is �buffering�, I assume they mean 
re-buffering, where the video stops and starts.


I�m starting to  wonder if some people are referring to the delay 
before the video starts playing.  Is this a thing?  And do people pay 
for faster Internet just to make the video start faster, like cut 
15-20 seconds down to 5 or 10 seconds?

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Paul Stewart]

I “only” have 35Meg down x 11 Meg up at my home (VDSL + 10 meg 320 wireless) …. 
less than 10 miles away the city nearby has 1G service available to every home 
(about 100k people) … I don’t know the actual “uptake” on the 1G service but 
have heard it’s significant … 1G unlimited service (1G down x 100 Meg up) @ 
$149/month

I would pay the $149/month without hesitation personally .. 


> On Oct 14, 2016, at 10:08 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
> 
> Well, people certainly want connections that support multiple streams. Paying 
> for it, I'm not so sure about... at least around these parts.
> 
> 
> On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke  > wrote:
> Have you ever seen a 1080p youtube video load on a 1GbE active-E FTTH ISP 
> that has direct peering with Google from a router 2.5ms upstream?  It's a 
> beautiful thing.
> 
> People will absolutely pay for connections that support multiple streams, 
> take a typical family of 4 or 5 people with kids that want to watch videos on 
> tablets simultaneously...
> 
> On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Ken Hohhof  > wrote:
> When people say their video is “buffering”, I assume they mean re-buffering, 
> where the video stops and starts.
> 
>  
> 
> I’m starting to  wonder if some people are referring to the delay before the 
> video starts playing.  Is this a thing?  And do people pay for faster 
> Internet just to make the video start faster, like cut 15-20 seconds down to 
> 5 or 10 seconds?
> 
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Yes

On Oct 14, 2016 10:47 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

> Is that sarcasm or serious?
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *That One Guy
> /sarcasm
> *Sent:* Friday, October 14, 2016 10:18 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
> Because you porn and xnxx say buffering when they pause to buffer
>
>
>
> On Oct 14, 2016 9:34 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
> But that’s not what I’m talking about.  I’m wondering if when a customer
> talks about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for the video to
> start playing.
>
>
>
> And maybe I’m confused because I assume everyone is using Netflix.  And
> I’m pretty sure Netflix starts the stream at a low quality so it starts
> quickly, and then ramps up the quality as the buffer fills, since their
> technology allows changing the stream quality on the fly.  Other services
> like maybe Hulu and Amazon Prime may behave differently.
>
>
>
> Also with my default assumption that people are using Netflix, I don’t
> expect rebuffering because it’s been years since Netflix needed to stop and
> rebuffer at a lower stream rate, I think they do that pretty seamlessly now.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Friday, October 14, 2016 9:09 PM
> *To:* af <af@afmug.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
> Well, people certainly want connections that support multiple streams.
> Paying for it, I'm not so sure about... at least around these parts.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Have you ever seen a 1080p youtube video load on a 1GbE active-E FTTH ISP
> that has direct peering with Google from a router 2.5ms upstream?  It's a
> beautiful thing.
>
> People will absolutely pay for connections that support multiple streams,
> take a typical family of 4 or 5 people with kids that want to watch videos
> on tablets simultaneously...
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
> When people say their video is “buffering”, I assume they mean
> re-buffering, where the video stops and starts.
>
>
>
> I’m starting to  wonder if some people are referring to the delay before
> the video starts playing.  Is this a thing?  And do people pay for faster
> Internet just to make the video start faster, like cut 15-20 seconds down
> to 5 or 10 seconds?
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Ken Hohhof]

Is that sarcasm or serious?

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 10:18 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

Because you porn and xnxx say buffering when they pause to buffer

 

On Oct 14, 2016 9:34 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com <mailto:af...@kwisp.com> 
> wrote:

But that’s not what I’m talking about.  I’m wondering if when a customer talks 
about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for the video to start 
playing.

 

And maybe I’m confused because I assume everyone is using Netflix.  And I’m 
pretty sure Netflix starts the stream at a low quality so it starts quickly, 
and then ramps up the quality as the buffer fills, since their technology 
allows changing the stream quality on the fly.  Other services like maybe Hulu 
and Amazon Prime may behave differently.

 

Also with my default assumption that people are using Netflix, I don’t expect 
rebuffering because it’s been years since Netflix needed to stop and rebuffer 
at a lower stream rate, I think they do that pretty seamlessly now.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com> ] On Behalf 
Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 9:09 PM
To: af <af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

Well, people certainly want connections that support multiple streams. Paying 
for it, I'm not so sure about... at least around these parts.

 

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com 
<mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Have you ever seen a 1080p youtube video load on a 1GbE active-E FTTH ISP that 
has direct peering with Google from a router 2.5ms upstream?  It's a beautiful 
thing.

People will absolutely pay for connections that support multiple streams, take 
a typical family of 4 or 5 people with kids that want to watch videos on 
tablets simultaneously...

 

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com 
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

When people say their video is “buffering”, I assume they mean re-buffering, 
where the video stops and starts.

 

I’m starting to  wonder if some people are referring to the delay before the 
video starts playing.  Is this a thing?  And do people pay for faster Internet 
just to make the video start faster, like cut 15-20 seconds down to 5 or 10 
seconds?

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Because you porn and xnxx say buffering when they pause to buffer

On Oct 14, 2016 9:34 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

> But that’s not what I’m talking about.  I’m wondering if when a customer
> talks about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for the video to
> start playing.
>
>
>
> And maybe I’m confused because I assume everyone is using Netflix.  And
> I’m pretty sure Netflix starts the stream at a low quality so it starts
> quickly, and then ramps up the quality as the buffer fills, since their
> technology allows changing the stream quality on the fly.  Other services
> like maybe Hulu and Amazon Prime may behave differently.
>
>
>
> Also with my default assumption that people are using Netflix, I don’t
> expect rebuffering because it’s been years since Netflix needed to stop and
> rebuffer at a lower stream rate, I think they do that pretty seamlessly now.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
> *Sent:* Friday, October 14, 2016 9:09 PM
> *To:* af <af@afmug.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"
>
>
>
> Well, people certainly want connections that support multiple streams.
> Paying for it, I'm not so sure about... at least around these parts.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Have you ever seen a 1080p youtube video load on a 1GbE active-E FTTH ISP
> that has direct peering with Google from a router 2.5ms upstream?  It's a
> beautiful thing.
>
> People will absolutely pay for connections that support multiple streams,
> take a typical family of 4 or 5 people with kids that want to watch videos
> on tablets simultaneously...
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
> When people say their video is “buffering”, I assume they mean
> re-buffering, where the video stops and starts.
>
>
>
> I’m starting to  wonder if some people are referring to the delay before
> the video starts playing.  Is this a thing?  And do people pay for faster
> Internet just to make the video start faster, like cut 15-20 seconds down
> to 5 or 10 seconds?
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Ken Hohhof]

But that’s not what I’m talking about.  I’m wondering if when a customer talks 
about “buffering”, he really means having to wait for the video to start 
playing.

 

And maybe I’m confused because I assume everyone is using Netflix.  And I’m 
pretty sure Netflix starts the stream at a low quality so it starts quickly, 
and then ramps up the quality as the buffer fills, since their technology 
allows changing the stream quality on the fly.  Other services like maybe Hulu 
and Amazon Prime may behave differently.

 

Also with my default assumption that people are using Netflix, I don’t expect 
rebuffering because it’s been years since Netflix needed to stop and rebuffer 
at a lower stream rate, I think they do that pretty seamlessly now.

 

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2016 9:09 PM
To: af <af@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

 

Well, people certainly want connections that support multiple streams. Paying 
for it, I'm not so sure about... at least around these parts.

 

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke <eric.kuh...@gmail.com 
<mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Have you ever seen a 1080p youtube video load on a 1GbE active-E FTTH ISP that 
has direct peering with Google from a router 2.5ms upstream?  It's a beautiful 
thing.

People will absolutely pay for connections that support multiple streams, take 
a typical family of 4 or 5 people with kids that want to watch videos on 
tablets simultaneously...

 

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com 
<mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

When people say their video is “buffering”, I assume they mean re-buffering, 
where the video stops and starts.

 

I’m starting to  wonder if some people are referring to the delay before the 
video starts playing.  Is this a thing?  And do people pay for faster Internet 
just to make the video start faster, like cut 15-20 seconds down to 5 or 10 
seconds?

 

 

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Mathew Howard]

Well, people certainly want connections that support multiple streams.
Paying for it, I'm not so sure about... at least around these parts.


On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> Have you ever seen a 1080p youtube video load on a 1GbE active-E FTTH ISP
> that has direct peering with Google from a router 2.5ms upstream?  It's a
> beautiful thing.
>
> People will absolutely pay for connections that support multiple streams,
> take a typical family of 4 or 5 people with kids that want to watch videos
> on tablets simultaneously...
>
> On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> When people say their video is “buffering”, I assume they mean
>> re-buffering, where the video stops and starts.
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m starting to  wonder if some people are referring to the delay before
>> the video starts playing.  Is this a thing?  And do people pay for faster
>> Internet just to make the video start faster, like cut 15-20 seconds down
>> to 5 or 10 seconds?
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] "buffering"

[Eric Kuhnke]

Have you ever seen a 1080p youtube video load on a 1GbE active-E FTTH ISP
that has direct peering with Google from a router 2.5ms upstream?  It's a
beautiful thing.

People will absolutely pay for connections that support multiple streams,
take a typical family of 4 or 5 people with kids that want to watch videos
on tablets simultaneously...

On Fri, Oct 14, 2016 at 6:49 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> When people say their video is “buffering”, I assume they mean
> re-buffering, where the video stops and starts.
>
>
>
> I’m starting to  wonder if some people are referring to the delay before
> the video starts playing.  Is this a thing?  And do people pay for faster
> Internet just to make the video start faster, like cut 15-20 seconds down
> to 5 or 10 seconds?
>