Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-18 Thread Martin Strbacka
t;>>>> the ONUs, Multicast IPTV support was another big one for us. Also 
>>>>> struggled
>>>>> with getting the UNMS installed and working properly, and ubnt has a
>>>>> horrible track record for maintaining their management tools so it was
>>>>> worrysome to rely on a beta version of their new management platform.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Jason McKemie <
>>>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
>>>>>>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range 
>>>>>>> parameter
>>>>>>> that needs to be set.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT
>>>>>>> is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and 
>>>>>>> -28
>>>>>>> rx sens.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's also a compelling point.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's not a simple question for sure.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger
>>>>>>>> company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think 
>>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>>> what THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably
>>>>>>>> have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear 
>>>>>>>> that in
>>>>>>>> mind too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>>>>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>>>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in
>>>>>>>> cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and
>>>>>>>> outdoor cabinets.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per
>>>>>>>> customer.
>>>>>>>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing
>>>>>>>> myself to do PON.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
>>>>>>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chuck,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *-- Best regards,Mark*
>>>>>>>> mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *From:* 

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-16 Thread Chris Fabien
Check eBay, alibaba etc.

On Feb 15, 2018 11:32 PM, "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net> wrote:

> Thanks, and yes, it would be grey market since I'm not willing to pay
> nearly double for the supported version.  Point taken on the Ubiquiti
> support though, I just figured crap support is better than no support.
>
> Going back to the distributed tap design, how does an OTDR behave with
> this kind of setup?  Do you need some special software or do you just have
> to read it differently?
>
> Where are you sourcing your FBT splitters?
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:03 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Without support, yes if you are buying it grey market. But have you ever
>> dealt with ubnt support? Last time I tried they were about useless.
>>
>> Smartolt.com provides a subscription based web gui for the zte OLT. It's
>> a nice system, if you are okay trusting that functionality to some guy in
>> Romania. The CLI is pretty clunky but you can do it that way too.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 15, 2018 10:07 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mckemie@veloxinetbroadband.
>> com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the information.  Others were saying the ZTE units are
>>> basically without any support, so I thought that might be a potential
>>> benefit to the Ubiquiti gear.  What do you use to manage the ZTE gear?  Is
>>> it just CLI?
>>>
>>> -Jason
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:37 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The main reason we were initially drawn to ubnt was the outdoor POE
>>>> powered ONU. This would let us re-use a lot of wireless installs with cat5
>>>> runs, and it is also how we had previously been doing our activeE FTTH,
>>>> with a media converter in the NID. Ubnt initially released a spec saying
>>>> the Nano would be rated for -40C. After resting they revised this to
>>>> -10C... this told me they didn't design properly and were just hoping it
>>>> would work using commercial rated parts, like most of their radios do. Not
>>>> confidence building.
>>>>
>>>> So, if the ONU has to be indoor anyway, the comporable ZTE ONU is less
>>>> than half the cost of the ubnt. The OLT is also much cheaper if you fully
>>>> load the OLT. The ZTE is also a mature product with features like VOIP in
>>>> the ONUs, Multicast IPTV support was another big one for us. Also struggled
>>>> with getting the UNMS installed and working properly, and ubnt has a
>>>> horrible track record for maintaining their management tools so it was
>>>> worrysome to rely on a beta version of their new management platform.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Jason McKemie <
>>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
>>>>>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
>>>>>> that needs to be set.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT
>>>>>> is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and 
>>>>>> -28
>>>>>> rx sens.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's also a compelling point.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not a simple question for sure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger
>>>>>>> company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think 
>>>>>>> about
>>>>>>> what THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably
>>>>>>> have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. 

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Jason McKemie
Thanks, and yes, it would be grey market since I'm not willing to pay
nearly double for the supported version.  Point taken on the Ubiquiti
support though, I just figured crap support is better than no support.

Going back to the distributed tap design, how does an OTDR behave with this
kind of setup?  Do you need some special software or do you just have to
read it differently?

Where are you sourcing your FBT splitters?


On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:03 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:

> Without support, yes if you are buying it grey market. But have you ever
> dealt with ubnt support? Last time I tried they were about useless.
>
> Smartolt.com provides a subscription based web gui for the zte OLT. It's a
> nice system, if you are okay trusting that functionality to some guy in
> Romania. The CLI is pretty clunky but you can do it that way too.
>
>
>
> On Feb 15, 2018 10:07 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mckemie@veloxinetbroadband.
> com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the information.  Others were saying the ZTE units are
>> basically without any support, so I thought that might be a potential
>> benefit to the Ubiquiti gear.  What do you use to manage the ZTE gear?  Is
>> it just CLI?
>>
>> -Jason
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:37 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The main reason we were initially drawn to ubnt was the outdoor POE
>>> powered ONU. This would let us re-use a lot of wireless installs with cat5
>>> runs, and it is also how we had previously been doing our activeE FTTH,
>>> with a media converter in the NID. Ubnt initially released a spec saying
>>> the Nano would be rated for -40C. After resting they revised this to
>>> -10C... this told me they didn't design properly and were just hoping it
>>> would work using commercial rated parts, like most of their radios do. Not
>>> confidence building.
>>>
>>> So, if the ONU has to be indoor anyway, the comporable ZTE ONU is less
>>> than half the cost of the ubnt. The OLT is also much cheaper if you fully
>>> load the OLT. The ZTE is also a mature product with features like VOIP in
>>> the ONUs, Multicast IPTV support was another big one for us. Also struggled
>>> with getting the UNMS installed and working properly, and ubnt has a
>>> horrible track record for maintaining their management tools so it was
>>> worrysome to rely on a beta version of their new management platform.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Jason McKemie <
>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti?
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
>>>>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
>>>>> that needs to be set.
>>>>>
>>>>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
>>>>> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 
>>>>> rx
>>>>> sens.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>>>>>
>>>>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> That's also a compelling point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not a simple question for sure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
>>>>>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
>>>>>> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably
>>>>>> have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that 
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> mind too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON w

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Adam Moffett

I'm definitely going to look hard at the distributed tap design.

Another thing that turned me off from PON was Alphion telling me that 
interop between different PON vendors was not guaranteed.  
Realistically, how much trouble have you had cross vendor?  If I use ZTE 
today and decide UBNT is better later, does that mean a forklift?




-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/15/2018 4:33:52 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

We just ring cut the cable at the handholes.  Later when a drop comes 
in to that handhole we just open the case and splice the drop to a 
strand.  But this is a home run strand back to the cross box where the 
splitters are located.


While I like 12 count prices, the cost of construction is such that 
strand count is one of the more minor expenses.  At least of you are 
having to drill and if  you use duct.


If you can plow everything direct burial, that is a different bucket of 
cats.


From:Chris Fabien
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 11:41 AM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Mark, In our area, limited new house construction. So, we design our 
plant to serve existing houses. You of course have the option of 
putting in all the taps you might need now, rather than cutting them in 
later. We usually end up with at least one drop coming back to maybe 
80% of the handholes. I have not yet, one year in using this method, 
had to cut service to install a new tap. If you are good at splicing it 
"should" be only a couple minutes of downtime. I'm never claiming it's 
the right choice for everyone, or right choice for everywhere in your 
network. I just know it lets me go many miles and a 200-300 homes 
served on a 12 count mainline that costs me <20 cents a foot. I think 
that's pretty awesome, and it's almost never even discussed as an 
option by most FTTH people.


On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies 
<m...@mailmt.com> wrote:

Chris,

It all depends on scale.  Not saying taps won't work, just saying I 
could never figure out a good way of scaling them beyond maybe 12-16 
customers.  Always was afraid to deal with having to take everyone 
south of the new tap offline.  In the scheme I just posted, everything 
flows south.  Taps would be great in a static environment where you 
can install them once and not worry about new customers.  The area I 
designed for was only 30% built out.  Also, this is the exception to 
the rule.  I would NEVER advise people to build their whole network 
like this.


--
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--


Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:53:12 PM, you wrote:


Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use 
mainly HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely 
to see heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so 
its not perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 
for  a polymer concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year.


This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping 
architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc 
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc>  I wish I had seen this 
video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested 
the idea by another fiber upstart guy.


Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 
12-count main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. 
Certainly a viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, 
especially when at some handholes you are splicing drops to go north 
and at some you are splicing to go south and what not. I think the 
tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our area, certainly 
has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have the 
loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can 
tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are 
built and what not.


Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty 
much the same.


Chris


On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a 
large expense.
I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my 
idea already exists I would rather just buy them.


From: Chris Fabien
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max 
difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range 
parameter that needs to be set.


We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is 
about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and 
-28 rx sens.


I've been very impressed with the optical performance.

We did test the ub

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Jon Langeler
The pricing for a ZTE OLT from Baltic is $4-5k. Is that about right?

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Feb 15, 2018, at 11:03 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
> 
> Without support, yes if you are buying it grey market. But have you ever 
> dealt with ubnt support? Last time I tried they were about useless. 
> 
> Smartolt.com provides a subscription based web gui for the zte OLT. It's a 
> nice system, if you are okay trusting that functionality to some guy in 
> Romania. The CLI is pretty clunky but you can do it that way too. 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 15, 2018 10:07 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> 
>> wrote:
>> Thanks for the information.  Others were saying the ZTE units are basically 
>> without any support, so I thought that might be a potential benefit to the 
>> Ubiquiti gear.  What do you use to manage the ZTE gear?  Is it just CLI?
>> 
>> -Jason
>> 
>>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:37 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>>> The main reason we were initially drawn to ubnt was the outdoor POE powered 
>>> ONU. This would let us re-use a lot of wireless installs with cat5 runs, 
>>> and it is also how we had previously been doing our activeE FTTH, with a 
>>> media converter in the NID. Ubnt initially released a spec saying the Nano 
>>> would be rated for -40C. After resting they revised this to -10C... this 
>>> told me they didn't design properly and were just hoping it would work 
>>> using commercial rated parts, like most of their radios do. Not confidence 
>>> building. 
>>> 
>>> So, if the ONU has to be indoor anyway, the comporable ZTE ONU is less than 
>>> half the cost of the ubnt. The OLT is also much cheaper if you fully load 
>>> the OLT. The ZTE is also a mature product with features like VOIP in the 
>>> ONUs, Multicast IPTV support was another big one for us. Also struggled 
>>> with getting the UNMS installed and working properly, and ubnt has a 
>>> horrible track record for maintaining their management tools so it was 
>>> worrysome to rely on a beta version of their new management platform. 
>>> 
>>>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Jason McKemie 
>>>> <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>> What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti?
>>>> 
>>>>> On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max 
>>>>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter 
>>>>> that needs to be set. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is 
>>>>> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 
>>>>> rx sens. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>>>>> 
>>>>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> That's also a compelling point.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It's not a simple question for sure.  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company 
>>>>>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what 
>>>>>> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a 
>>>>>> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind 
>>>>>> too.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe 
>>>>>>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and 
>>>>>>> outdoor cabinets. 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. 
>>>>>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Chris Fabien
Without support, yes if you are buying it grey market. But have you ever
dealt with ubnt support? Last time I tried they were about useless.

Smartolt.com provides a subscription based web gui for the zte OLT. It's a
nice system, if you are okay trusting that functionality to some guy in
Romania. The CLI is pretty clunky but you can do it that way too.



On Feb 15, 2018 10:07 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
wrote:

> Thanks for the information.  Others were saying the ZTE units are
> basically without any support, so I thought that might be a potential
> benefit to the Ubiquiti gear.  What do you use to manage the ZTE gear?  Is
> it just CLI?
>
> -Jason
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:37 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>
>> The main reason we were initially drawn to ubnt was the outdoor POE
>> powered ONU. This would let us re-use a lot of wireless installs with cat5
>> runs, and it is also how we had previously been doing our activeE FTTH,
>> with a media converter in the NID. Ubnt initially released a spec saying
>> the Nano would be rated for -40C. After resting they revised this to
>> -10C... this told me they didn't design properly and were just hoping it
>> would work using commercial rated parts, like most of their radios do. Not
>> confidence building.
>>
>> So, if the ONU has to be indoor anyway, the comporable ZTE ONU is less
>> than half the cost of the ubnt. The OLT is also much cheaper if you fully
>> load the OLT. The ZTE is also a mature product with features like VOIP in
>> the ONUs, Multicast IPTV support was another big one for us. Also struggled
>> with getting the UNMS installed and working properly, and ubnt has a
>> horrible track record for maintaining their management tools so it was
>> worrysome to rely on a beta version of their new management platform.
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Jason McKemie <
>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>>> What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti?
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
>>>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
>>>> that needs to be set.
>>>>
>>>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
>>>> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
>>>> sens.
>>>>
>>>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>>>>
>>>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That's also a compelling point.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not a simple question for sure.
>>>>>
>>>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
>>>>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
>>>>> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>>>>>
>>>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have
>>>>> a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
>>>>> too.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>>>
>>>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe
>>>>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor
>>>>> cabinets.
>>>>>
>>>>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per
>>>>> customer.
>>>>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing
>>>>> myself to do PON.
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
>>>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>>>
>>>>> Chuck,
>>>>>
>>>>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *-- Best rega

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Jason McKemie
Thanks for the information.  Others were saying the ZTE units are basically
without any support, so I thought that might be a potential benefit to the
Ubiquiti gear.  What do you use to manage the ZTE gear?  Is it just CLI?

-Jason

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:37 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:

> The main reason we were initially drawn to ubnt was the outdoor POE
> powered ONU. This would let us re-use a lot of wireless installs with cat5
> runs, and it is also how we had previously been doing our activeE FTTH,
> with a media converter in the NID. Ubnt initially released a spec saying
> the Nano would be rated for -40C. After resting they revised this to
> -10C... this told me they didn't design properly and were just hoping it
> would work using commercial rated parts, like most of their radios do. Not
> confidence building.
>
> So, if the ONU has to be indoor anyway, the comporable ZTE ONU is less
> than half the cost of the ubnt. The OLT is also much cheaper if you fully
> load the OLT. The ZTE is also a mature product with features like VOIP in
> the ONUs, Multicast IPTV support was another big one for us. Also struggled
> with getting the UNMS installed and working properly, and ubnt has a
> horrible track record for maintaining their management tools so it was
> worrysome to rely on a beta version of their new management platform.
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Jason McKemie <
> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti?
>>
>> On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
>>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
>>> that needs to be set.
>>>
>>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
>>> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
>>> sens.
>>>
>>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>>>
>>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>>>
>>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's also a compelling point.
>>>>
>>>> It's not a simple question for sure.
>>>>
>>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
>>>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
>>>> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>>>>
>>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have
>>>> a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
>>>> too.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>>
>>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe
>>>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor
>>>> cabinets.
>>>>
>>>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per
>>>> customer.
>>>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself
>>>> to do PON.
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
>>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>>
>>>> Chuck,
>>>>
>>>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *-- Best regards,Mark*
>>>> mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:*
>>>>
>>>> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
>>>> *To:* Adam Moffett
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>>
>>>> Adam,
>>>>
>>>> There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
>>&

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Chris Fabien
The main reason we were initially drawn to ubnt was the outdoor POE powered
ONU. This would let us re-use a lot of wireless installs with cat5 runs,
and it is also how we had previously been doing our activeE FTTH, with a
media converter in the NID. Ubnt initially released a spec saying the Nano
would be rated for -40C. After resting they revised this to -10C... this
told me they didn't design properly and were just hoping it would work
using commercial rated parts, like most of their radios do. Not confidence
building.

So, if the ONU has to be indoor anyway, the comporable ZTE ONU is less than
half the cost of the ubnt. The OLT is also much cheaper if you fully load
the OLT. The ZTE is also a mature product with features like VOIP in the
ONUs, Multicast IPTV support was another big one for us. Also struggled
with getting the UNMS installed and working properly, and ubnt has a
horrible track record for maintaining their management tools so it was
worrysome to rely on a beta version of their new management platform.

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Jason McKemie <
j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

> What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti?
>
> On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>
>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
>> that needs to be set.
>>
>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
>> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
>> sens.
>>
>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>>
>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> That's also a compelling point.
>>>
>>> It's not a simple question for sure.
>>>
>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
>>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
>>> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>>>
>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a
>>> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
>>> too.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe
>>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor
>>> cabinets.
>>>
>>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.
>>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself
>>> to do PON.
>>>
>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Chuck,
>>>
>>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>>
>>>
>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:*
>>>
>>> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?
>>>
>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
>>> *To:* Adam Moffett
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Adam,
>>>
>>> There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
>>> when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
>>> exceed 20Km."
>>>
>>> The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long
>>> stretches of roads between neighborhoods.
>>>
>>> We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into
>>> the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144
>>> count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles
>>> depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter
>>> to ribbons 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light
>>> budget.
>>>
>>> We build to the lots passed, so 

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Jason McKemie
What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti?

On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:

> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
> that needs to be set.
>
> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
> sens.
>
> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>
> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>
> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That's also a compelling point.
>>
>> It's not a simple question for sure.
>>
>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
>> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>>
>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a
>> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
>> too.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe
>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor
>> cabinets.
>>
>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.
>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself
>> to do PON.
>>
>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.
>>
>>
>>
>> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>
>>
>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:*
>>
>> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?
>>
>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
>> *To:* Adam Moffett
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Adam,
>>
>> There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
>> when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
>> exceed 20Km."
>>
>> The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long
>> stretches of roads between neighborhoods.
>>
>> We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the
>> last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 count
>> cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending on
>> density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons
>> 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.
>>
>> We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage
>> per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>
>>
>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:*
>>
>> Maybe I need to review the math.
>>
>> I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I didn't
>> compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber
>> back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com>
>> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
>> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>>
>> Adam,
>>
>> How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split.
>> Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?
>>
>>
>>
>> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>
>>
>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *--Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:*

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Chuck McCown
We just ring cut the cable at the handholes.  Later when a drop comes in to 
that handhole we just open the case and splice the drop to a strand.  But this 
is a home run strand back to the cross box where the splitters are located.  

While I like 12 count prices, the cost of construction is such that strand 
count is one of the more minor expenses.  At least of you are having to drill 
and if  you use duct.

If you can plow everything direct burial, that is a different bucket of cats.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 11:41 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Mark, In our area, limited new house construction. So, we design our plant to 
serve existing houses. You of course have the option of putting in all the taps 
you might need now, rather than cutting them in later. We usually end up with 
at least one drop coming back to maybe 80% of the handholes. I have not yet, 
one year in using this method, had to cut service to install a new tap. If you 
are good at splicing it "should" be only a couple minutes of downtime. I'm 
never claiming it's the right choice for everyone, or right choice for 
everywhere in your network. I just know it lets me go many miles and a 200-300 
homes served on a 12 count mainline that costs me <20 cents a foot. I think 
that's pretty awesome, and it's almost never even discussed as an option by 
most FTTH people. 

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies <m...@mailmt.com> 
wrote:

  Chris,

  It all depends on scale.  Not saying taps won't work, just saying I could 
never figure out a good way of scaling them beyond maybe 12-16 customers.  
Always was afraid to deal with having to take everyone south of the new tap 
offline.  In the scheme I just posted, everything flows south.  Taps would be 
great in a static environment where you can install them once and not worry 
about new customers.  The area I designed for was only 30% built out.  Also, 
this is the exception to the rule.  I would NEVER advise people to build their 
whole network like this.  

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.MyakkaTech.com

  -- 


  Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:53:12 PM, you wrote:



   Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use 
mainly HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see 
heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect 
(but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer concrete, 
worth having to replace one or two a year.  

This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping 
architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I wish I 
had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were 
suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy. 

Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 
12-count main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly 
a viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some 
handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go 
south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us 
in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have 
to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you 
can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and 
what not. 

Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty 
much the same. 

Chris


On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

 What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes 
are a large expense.
  I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to 
my idea already exists I would rather just buy them.  

  From: Chris Fabien
  Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
          Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max 
difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that 
needs to be set.  

  We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The 
OLT is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 
rx sens. 

  I've been very impressed with the optical performance.

  We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE

  On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

   That's also a compelling point.

It's not a simple question for sure.  

The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a 
larger company wanted to purchase ou

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread chuck
12” Depth: 
15” Depth: 
18” Depth: 

So you get the middle size for $82.  
Seems a bit tight to me, if you have a 144 strand splice in a 21 inch splice 
case and 50 feet of slack.  
I wonder what the 18” will cost.  I may try this and the round one.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 1:52 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

We get 17x30x15. Tyco B size will fit but it's tight. A is no prob.

On Feb 15, 2018 2:33 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  A splice case and slack will fit OK?
  Which size do you get for the $82?

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:04 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/WA-Carson_1730.pdf 

  Cheked our last order, $82 with the lid bolts. Milennium is our local 
supplier that stocks them. 

  On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:14 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Could you give me a source for your handholes?
I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel lids. 
 But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly 
HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see heavy 
traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect (but 
the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer concrete, worth 
having to replace one or two a year.   

This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture 
very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I wish I had seen this 
video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested the idea 
by another fiber upstart guy. 

Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count 
main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a viable 
approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some handholes 
you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go south and 
what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our 
area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have 
the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can 
tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and 
what not. 

Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much 
the same. 

Chris


On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a 
large expense.
  I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea 
already exists I would rather just buy them.  

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max 
difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that 
needs to be set.  

  We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is 
about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx 
sens. 

  I've been very impressed with the optical performance.

  We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE

  On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

That's also a compelling point.

It's not a simple question for sure.  

The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company 
wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY 
will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON. 

Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have 
a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind too.


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
    Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in 
cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor 
cabinets.  

  When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per 
customer.  
  For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing 
myself to do PON.  

  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
      To: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Chuck,

  PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Mark  

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Chris Fabien
We get 17x30x15. Tyco B size will fit but it's tight. A is no prob.

On Feb 15, 2018 2:33 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> A splice case and slack will fit OK?
> Which size do you get for the $82?
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:04 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/
> 05/WA-Carson_1730.pdf
>
> Cheked our last order, $82 with the lid bolts. Milennium is our local
> supplier that stocks them.
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:14 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
>> Could you give me a source for your handholes?
>> I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel
>> lids.  But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone.
>>
>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly
>> HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see
>> heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not
>> perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer
>> concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year.
>>
>> This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping
>> architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I
>> wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when
>> we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy.
>>
>> Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count
>> main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a
>> viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some
>> handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing
>> to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very
>> well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with
>> it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave
>> some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or
>> there as houses are built and what not.
>>
>> Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much
>> the same.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>>> What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a
>>> large expense.
>>> I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my
>>> idea already exists I would rather just buy them.
>>>
>>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
>>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
>>> that needs to be set.
>>>
>>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
>>> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
>>> sens.
>>>
>>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>>>
>>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>>>
>>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's also a compelling point.
>>>>
>>>> It's not a simple question for sure.
>>>>
>>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
>>>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
>>>> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>>>>
>>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have
>>>> a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
>>>> too.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe
>>>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor
>>>> cabinets.
>>>>
>>>> Wh

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread chuck
Nice thing about HDPE is that you can brand your name into the lids with an 
electric branding iron.  

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

I've been using these: 

https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/WA-Carson_2200.pdf


About $70 with extension.  I prefer the round handholes - probably a bit 
stronger from a crushing standpoint as well, since the lid is much smaller.

-Jason

 Virus-free. www.avast.com  


On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:33 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  A splice case and slack will fit OK?
  Which size do you get for the $82?

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:04 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/WA-Carson_1730.pdf 

  Cheked our last order, $82 with the lid bolts. Milennium is our local 
supplier that stocks them. 

  On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:14 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Could you give me a source for your handholes?
I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel lids. 
 But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly 
HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see heavy 
traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect (but 
the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer concrete, worth 
having to replace one or two a year.   

This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture 
very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I wish I had seen this 
video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested the idea 
by another fiber upstart guy. 

Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count 
main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a viable 
approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some handholes 
you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go south and 
what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our 
area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have 
the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can 
tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and 
what not. 

Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much 
the same. 

Chris


On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a 
large expense.
  I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea 
already exists I would rather just buy them.  

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max 
difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that 
needs to be set.  

  We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is 
about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx 
sens. 

  I've been very impressed with the optical performance.

  We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE

  On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

That's also a compelling point.

It's not a simple question for sure.  

The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company 
wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY 
will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON. 

Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have 
a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind too.


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
    Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in 
cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor 
cabinets.  

  When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per 
customer.  
  For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing 
myself to do PON.  

  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
      To: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Chuck,

  PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion spl

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread chuck
So, with extension they are 24” deep?
If you put a coil at the bottom and lean the splice case in at a slant it ought 
to work just fine.  
What size of splice cases have you put in these?

From: Jason McKemie 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

I've been using these: 

https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/WA-Carson_2200.pdf


About $70 with extension.  I prefer the round handholes - probably a bit 
stronger from a crushing standpoint as well, since the lid is much smaller.

-Jason

 Virus-free. www.avast.com  


On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:33 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  A splice case and slack will fit OK?
  Which size do you get for the $82?

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:04 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/WA-Carson_1730.pdf 

  Cheked our last order, $82 with the lid bolts. Milennium is our local 
supplier that stocks them. 

  On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:14 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Could you give me a source for your handholes?
I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel lids. 
 But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly 
HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see heavy 
traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect (but 
the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer concrete, worth 
having to replace one or two a year.   

This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture 
very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I wish I had seen this 
video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested the idea 
by another fiber upstart guy. 

Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count 
main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a viable 
approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some handholes 
you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go south and 
what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our 
area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have 
the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can 
tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and 
what not. 

Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much 
the same. 

Chris


On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a 
large expense.
  I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea 
already exists I would rather just buy them.  

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max 
difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that 
needs to be set.  

  We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is 
about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx 
sens. 

  I've been very impressed with the optical performance.

  We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE

  On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

That's also a compelling point.

It's not a simple question for sure.  

The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company 
wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY 
will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON. 

Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have 
a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind too.


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
    Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in 
cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor 
cabinets.  

  When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per 
customer.  
  For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing 
myself to do PON.  

  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
      To: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoo

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Jason McKemie
I've been using these:

https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/WA-Carson_2200.pdf

About $70 with extension.  I prefer the round handholes - probably a bit
stronger from a crushing standpoint as well, since the lid is much smaller.

-Jason

<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=icon>
Virus-free.
www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=link>
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:33 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> A splice case and slack will fit OK?
> Which size do you get for the $82?
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:04 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/
> 05/WA-Carson_1730.pdf
>
> Cheked our last order, $82 with the lid bolts. Milennium is our local
> supplier that stocks them.
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:14 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
>> Could you give me a source for your handholes?
>> I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel
>> lids.  But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone.
>>
>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>> *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly
>> HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see
>> heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not
>> perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer
>> concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year.
>>
>> This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping
>> architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I
>> wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when
>> we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy.
>>
>> Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count
>> main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a
>> viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some
>> handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing
>> to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very
>> well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with
>> it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave
>> some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or
>> there as houses are built and what not.
>>
>> Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much
>> the same.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>>> What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a
>>> large expense.
>>> I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my
>>> idea already exists I would rather just buy them.
>>>
>>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
>>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
>>> that needs to be set.
>>>
>>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
>>> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
>>> sens.
>>>
>>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>>>
>>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>>>
>>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That's also a compelling point.
>>>>
>>>> It's not a simple question for sure.
>>>>
>>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
>>>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
>>>> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>>>>
>>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have
>>>> a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
>>>> too.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Or

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread chuck
A splice case and slack will fit OK?
Which size do you get for the $82?

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:04 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/WA-Carson_1730.pdf 

Cheked our last order, $82 with the lid bolts. Milennium is our local supplier 
that stocks them. 

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:14 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  Could you give me a source for your handholes?
  I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel lids.  
But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone.  

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly 
HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see heavy 
traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect (but 
the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer concrete, worth 
having to replace one or two a year.   

  This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture 
very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I wish I had seen this 
video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested the idea 
by another fiber upstart guy. 

  Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count main 
and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a viable 
approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some handholes 
you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go south and 
what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our 
area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have 
the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can 
tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and 
what not. 

  Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much the 
same. 

  Chris


  On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a large 
expense.
I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea 
already exists I would rather just buy them.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max 
difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that 
needs to be set.  

We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is 
about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx 
sens. 

I've been very impressed with the optical performance.

We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE

On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

  That's also a compelling point.

  It's not a simple question for sure.  

  The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company 
wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY 
will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON. 

  Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a 
bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind too.


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe 
electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor 
cabinets.  

When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. 
 
For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself 
to do PON.  

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
    To: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:


 Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?

  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
          To: Adam Moffett
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Adam,

  There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The 
requirement
  when deploying ONTs are the maximum 

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Chris Fabien
https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/WA-Carson_1730.pdf

Cheked our last order, $82 with the lid bolts. Milennium is our local
supplier that stocks them.

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:14 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> Could you give me a source for your handholes?
> I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel
> lids.  But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone.
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly
> HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see
> heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not
> perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer
> concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year.
>
> This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping
> architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I
> wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when
> we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy.
>
> Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count
> main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a
> viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some
> handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing
> to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very
> well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with
> it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave
> some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or
> there as houses are built and what not.
>
> Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much
> the same.
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
>> What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a
>> large expense.
>> I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea
>> already exists I would rather just buy them.
>>
>> *From:* Chris Fabien
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
>> that needs to be set.
>>
>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
>> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
>> sens.
>>
>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>>
>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> That's also a compelling point.
>>>
>>> It's not a simple question for sure.
>>>
>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
>>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
>>> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>>>
>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a
>>> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
>>> too.
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>>
>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe
>>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor
>>> cabinets.
>>>
>>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.
>>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself
>>> to do PON.
>>>
>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Chuck,
>>>
>>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>>
>>>
>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>&

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Mark - Myakka Technologies
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Chris,

Once again not saying it is right or wrong.  All depends on your requirements.  Just wanted to throw out another design option for people to look at.  One of the nice things about GPON is the way one can get very creative with the splits.  I have looked at the tap option before, actually have a few weighted 1x2 splitters here in the office.  In my case every time I think about using them, I usually end up using a different design.

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Thursday, February 15, 2018, 1:41:18 PM, you wrote:





Mark, In our area, limited new house construction. So, we design our plant to serve existing houses. You of course have the option of putting in all the taps you might need now, rather than cutting them in later. We usually end up with at least one drop coming back to maybe 80% of the handholes. I have not yet, one year in using this method, had to cut service to install a new tap. If you are good at splicing it "should" be only a couple minutes of downtime. I'm never claiming it's the right choice for everyone, or right choice for everywhere in your network. I just know it lets me go many miles and a 200-300 homes served on a 12 count mainline that costs me <20 cents a foot. I think that's pretty awesome, and it's almost never even discussed as an option by most FTTH people. 

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies <m...@mailmt.com> wrote:




Chris,

It all depends on scale.  Not saying taps won't work, just saying I could never figure out a good way of scaling them beyond maybe 12-16 customers.  Always was afraid to deal with having to take everyone south of the new tap offline.  In the scheme I just posted, everything flows south.  Taps would be great in a static environment where you can install them once and not worry about new customers.  The area I designed for was only 30% built out.  Also, this is the exception to the rule.  I would NEVER advise people to build their whole network like this.  

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--


Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:53:12 PM, you wrote:





Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year.  

This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy. 

Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and what not. 

Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much the same. 

Chris


On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:




What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a large expense.
I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea already exists I would rather just buy them.  

From: Chris Fabien
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that needs to be set.  

We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx sens. 

I've been very impressed with the optical performance.

We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE

On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:




That's also a compelling point.

It's not a simple question for sure.  

The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON. 

Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind too.



Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Chris Fabien
Mark, In our area, limited new house construction. So, we design our plant
to serve existing houses. You of course have the option of putting in all
the taps you might need now, rather than cutting them in later. We usually
end up with at least one drop coming back to maybe 80% of the handholes. I
have not yet, one year in using this method, had to cut service to install
a new tap. If you are good at splicing it "should" be only a couple minutes
of downtime. I'm never claiming it's the right choice for everyone, or
right choice for everywhere in your network. I just know it lets me go many
miles and a 200-300 homes served on a 12 count mainline that costs me <20
cents a foot. I think that's pretty awesome, and it's almost never even
discussed as an option by most FTTH people.

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies <m...@mailmt.com
> wrote:

> Chris,
>
> It all depends on scale.  Not saying taps won't work, just saying I could
> never figure out a good way of scaling them beyond maybe 12-16 customers.
> Always was afraid to deal with having to take everyone south of the new tap
> offline.  In the scheme I just posted, everything flows south.  Taps would
> be great in a static environment where you can install them once and not
> worry about new customers.  The area I designed for was only 30% built
> out.  Also, this is the exception to the rule.  I would NEVER advise people
> to build their whole network like this.
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards, Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
> <m...@mailmt.com>
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *-- Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:53:12 PM, you wrote: *
>
> Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly
> HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see
> heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not
> perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer
> concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year.
>
> This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping
> architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I
> wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when
> we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy.
>
> Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count
> main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a
> viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some
> handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing
> to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very
> well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with
> it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave
> some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or
> there as houses are built and what not.
>
> Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much
> the same.
>
> Chris
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
> What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a
> large expense.
> I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea
> already exists I would rather just buy them.
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
> that needs to be set.
>
> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
> sens.
>
> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>
> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>
> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> That's also a compelling point.
>
> It's not a simple question for sure.
>
> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>
> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a
> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
> too.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
>
> When doing full throttle C

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Seth Mattinen

On 2/15/18 10:11 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
And the customer that lost $50K in day trading can’t pay their bill 
because of that...



Of course more often than not the people that "lose money" if their 
internet goes down are always the people that pick the cheapest service 
level.


Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread chuck
Could you give me a source for your handholes?
I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel lids.  
But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly HDPE 
handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see heavy 
traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect (but 
the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer concrete, worth 
having to replace one or two a year.   

This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture 
very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I wish I had seen this 
video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested the idea 
by another fiber upstart guy. 

Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count main 
and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a viable 
approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some handholes 
you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go south and 
what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our 
area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have 
the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can 
tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and 
what not. 

Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much the 
same. 

Chris


On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

  What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a large 
expense.
  I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea 
already exists I would rather just buy them.  

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max difference 
of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that needs to be 
set.  

  We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is about 
+5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx sens. 

  I've been very impressed with the optical performance.

  We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE

  On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

That's also a compelling point.

It's not a simple question for sure.  

The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company 
wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY 
will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON. 

Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a 
bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind too.


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
    Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe 
electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor 
cabinets.  

  When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.  
  For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself 
to do PON.  

  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
      To: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Chuck,

  PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.MyakkaTech.com

  --

  Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:


   Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
        To: Adam Moffett
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Adam,

There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The 
requirement
when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
exceed 20Km."

The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long 
stretches of roads between neighborhoods.

We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that 
into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 
count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending 
on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 
10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread chuck
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTAnd the customer that lost $50K in day trading can’t 
pay their bill because of that...

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:50 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,


Fiber A & B are fibers on the main line.  Splice Fiber A to 1x4 splitter to 
Drop(1-4).  Take Fiber B from main line and splice to drop Fiber 9.  Splice 
Drop 1 to 1x4 splitter to Drop(5-8).  At this point Drop fibers 5-8 are hot for 
customers.  Proceed down the road till you pass 8 lots being each of those 
fibers can be split another 2 times.  After 8 lots, splice Drop 2 to another 
1x4 splitter and reuse Drop (5-8).  Go another 8 lots. Rinse and repeat using 
Drops 3 & 4.  That gives you 32 splits.  Repeat the whole process again using 
fiber 9 and reusing 1-8 as before for another 32 lots.  Using 12 fiber drop 
also allows us to use cheap coyote splice cases.  The 1x4 splitters are all 
spliced in during construction.  The 1x2 are only spliced in when putting a 
customer online.  So, if a second customer come in later we don't have to 
disturb the first customer.   Based on this scheme I expect an even amount of 
customers in each handhole.  However, if for some reason I had an odd number 
and needed that extra drop up or down the road, I would just splice it in to 
10-12 on the drop as transport between handholes.  Remember I can always reuse 
10-12 as transport again if needed down the road.

This seems a bit more complicated than the taps at first.  But there are a 
couple benefits.  First, I know my loss exactly everywhere.  It won't change as 
customers are added.  Second, when customers are added, there should be no 
interruption of service to existing customers.  I could never figure out how to 
do that with the taps.  Lets say you have a road running north/south with 10 
customers that you have used taps on.  Light comes in from the north and you 
have customers 1-10 heading south.  Now lets say someone builds a house between 
customer 1 and 2.  You now have to figure out what weight of a tap you can put 
in and how it will effect the downstream guys.  Also, while you are splicing in 
the new customer, existing customers 2-10 are kicked off line.  Murphy's law 
states as soon as you cut that fiber to put the tap in, A: The splicer battery 
will die or B: a downstream customer will loss $50k in day trading.  

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:02:30 PM, you wrote:


 I know I would be interested in seeing a simple line drawing schematic of 
this example.

  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
  Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:22 AM
  To: Chris Fabien
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Chris,

  You can do very creative things with splitters.  I just finished 
designing service to 64 lots down a 4.5 mile dirt road.  We didn't want to 
spend a bunch of money being there are only about 20 built house right now, but 
we wanted to make sure we were able to get everyone as they build in the 
future.  Using a combination of 1x4 and 1x2 splitters, we were able to design 
this on a 12 fiber drop cable. 

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.MyakkaTech.com

  --

  Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:26:46 AM, you wrote:


   You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First 
few handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about 
12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are 
starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of  course. Just set up a 
spreadsheet and play with it. 

On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

 There's insertion loss at each splitter too.  How may of the 
10/90 splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light?

  Class B or class C optics?


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM
          Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


   Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural 
where you have long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses 
per mile too. 

The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) 
those can be made in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the 
fibers meet. They are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass 
typical GPON wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 
10G PON techs.

Then the output of that FBT can go right to a d

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Mark - Myakka Technologies
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Chris,

It all depends on scale.  Not saying taps won't work, just saying I could never figure out a good way of scaling them beyond maybe 12-16 customers.  Always was afraid to deal with having to take everyone south of the new tap offline.  In the scheme I just posted, everything flows south.  Taps would be great in a static environment where you can install them once and not worry about new customers.  The area I designed for was only 30% built out.  Also, this is the exception to the rule.  I would NEVER advise people to build their whole network like this.  

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:53:12 PM, you wrote:






Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year.  

This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy. 

Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and what not. 

Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much the same. 

Chris


On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:




What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a large expense.
I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea already exists I would rather just buy them.  
 
From: Chris Fabien
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
 
Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that needs to be set.  
 
We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx sens. 
 
I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
 
We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
 
On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:




That's also a compelling point.
 
It's not a simple question for sure.  
 
The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON. 
 
Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind too.
 
 
-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
 




When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets.  
 
When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.  
For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON.  
 
From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
 
Chuck,

PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:





Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
To: Adam Moffett
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Adam,

There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
exceed 20Km."

The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods.

We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 wil

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Jason McKemie
Thanks for the information Mark, might have to sketch this out to fully
wrap my head around it though :)

On Thursday, February 15, 2018, Mark - Myakka Technologies <m...@mailmt.com>
wrote:

> Chuck,
>
>
> Fiber A & B are fibers on the main line.  Splice Fiber A to 1x4 splitter
> to Drop(1-4).  Take Fiber B from main line and splice to drop Fiber 9.
> Splice Drop 1 to 1x4 splitter to Drop(5-8).  At this point Drop fibers 5-8
> are hot for customers.  Proceed down the road till you pass 8 lots being
> each of those fibers can be split another 2 times.  After 8 lots, splice
> Drop 2 to another 1x4 splitter and reuse Drop (5-8).  Go another 8 lots.
> Rinse and repeat using Drops 3 & 4.  That gives you 32 splits.  Repeat the
> whole process again using fiber 9 and reusing 1-8 as before for another 32
> lots.  Using 12 fiber drop also allows us to use cheap coyote splice
> cases.  The 1x4 splitters are all spliced in during construction.  The 1x2
> are only spliced in when putting a customer online.  So, if a second
> customer come in later we don't have to disturb the first customer.   Based
> on this scheme I expect an even amount of customers in each handhole.
> However, if for some reason I had an odd number and needed that extra drop
> up or down the road, I would just splice it in to 10-12 on the drop as
> transport between handholes.  Remember I can always reuse 10-12 as
> transport again if needed down the road.
>
> This seems a bit more complicated than the taps at first.  But there are a
> couple benefits.  First, I know my loss exactly everywhere.  It won't
> change as customers are added.  Second, when customers are added, there
> should be no interruption of service to existing customers.  I could never
> figure out how to do that with the taps.  Lets say you have a road running
> north/south with 10 customers that you have used taps on.  Light comes in
> from the north and you have customers 1-10 heading south.  Now lets say
> someone builds a house between customer 1 and 2.  You now have to figure
> out what weight of a tap you can put in and how it will effect the
> downstream guys.  Also, while you are splicing in the new customer,
> existing customers 2-10 are kicked off line.  Murphy's law states as soon
> as you cut that fiber to put the tap in, A: The splicer battery will die or
> B: a downstream customer will loss $50k in day trading.
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards, Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
> <m...@mailmt.com>
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *-- Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:02:30 PM, you wrote: *
>
> I know I would be interested in seeing a simple line drawing schematic of
> this example.
>
> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:22 AM
> *To:* Chris Fabien
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Chris,
>
> You can do very creative things with splitters.  I just finished designing
> service to 64 lots down a 4.5 mile dirt road.  We didn't want to spend a
> bunch of money being there are only about 20 built house right now, but we
> wanted to make sure we were able to get everyone as they build in the
> future.  Using a combination of 1x4 and 1x2 splitters, we were able to
> design this on a 12 fiber drop cable.
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards, Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *-- Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:26:46 AM, you wrote: *
>
> You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few
> handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about
> 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are
> starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of  course. Just set up
> a spreadsheet and play with it.
>
> On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> There's insertion loss at each splitter too.  How may of the 10/90
> splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light?
>
> Class B or class C optics?
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
>
> Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have
> long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile
> too.
>
> The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in
> any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are
> common offered in "windowed" version that on

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Chris Fabien
Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly
HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see
heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not
perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for  a polymer
concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year.

This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture
very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc  I wish I had seen
this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested
the idea by another fiber upstart guy.

Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count
main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a
viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some
handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing
to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very
well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with
it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave
some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or
there as houses are built and what not.

Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much
the same.

Chris


On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a
> large expense.
> I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea
> already exists I would rather just buy them.
>
> *From:* Chris Fabien
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
> that needs to be set.
>
> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
> sens.
>
> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
>
> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
>
> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That's also a compelling point.
>>
>> It's not a simple question for sure.
>>
>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
>> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>>
>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a
>> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
>> too.
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>>
>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe
>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor
>> cabinets.
>>
>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.
>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself
>> to do PON.
>>
>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.
>>
>>
>>
>> *-- Best regards,Mark        *mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>
>>
>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:*
>>
>> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?
>>
>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
>> *To:* Adam Moffett
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Adam,
>>
>> There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
>> when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
>> exceed 20Km."
>>
>> The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long
>> stretches of roads between neighborhoods.
>>
>> We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the
>> last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 count
>> cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending on
>> density or distance, we will splice in a

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Mark - Myakka Technologies
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Chuck,


Fiber A & B are fibers on the main line.  Splice Fiber A to 1x4 splitter to Drop(1-4).  Take Fiber B from main line and splice to drop Fiber 9.  Splice Drop 1 to 1x4 splitter to Drop(5-8).  At this point Drop fibers 5-8 are hot for customers.  Proceed down the road till you pass 8 lots being each of those fibers can be split another 2 times.  After 8 lots, splice Drop 2 to another 1x4 splitter and reuse Drop (5-8).  Go another 8 lots. Rinse and repeat using Drops 3 & 4.  That gives you 32 splits.  Repeat the whole process again using fiber 9 and reusing 1-8 as before for another 32 lots.  Using 12 fiber drop also allows us to use cheap coyote splice cases.  The 1x4 splitters are all spliced in during construction.  The 1x2 are only spliced in when putting a customer online.  So, if a second customer come in later we don't have to disturb the first customer.   Based on this scheme I expect an even amount of customers in each handhole.  However, if for some reason I had an odd number and needed that extra drop up or down the road, I would just splice it in to 10-12 on the drop as transport between handholes.  Remember I can always reuse 10-12 as transport again if needed down the road.

This seems a bit more complicated than the taps at first.  But there are a couple benefits.  First, I know my loss exactly everywhere.  It won't change as customers are added.  Second, when customers are added, there should be no interruption of service to existing customers.  I could never figure out how to do that with the taps.  Lets say you have a road running north/south with 10 customers that you have used taps on.  Light comes in from the north and you have customers 1-10 heading south.  Now lets say someone builds a house between customer 1 and 2.  You now have to figure out what weight of a tap you can put in and how it will effect the downstream guys.  Also, while you are splicing in the new customer, existing customers 2-10 are kicked off line.  Murphy's law states as soon as you cut that fiber to put the tap in, A: The splicer battery will die or B: a downstream customer will loss $50k in day trading.  

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:02:30 PM, you wrote:





I know I would be interested in seeing a simple line drawing schematic of this example.
 
From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:22 AM
To: Chris Fabien
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
 
Chris,

You can do very creative things with splitters.  I just finished designing service to 64 lots down a 4.5 mile dirt road.  We didn't want to spend a bunch of money being there are only about 20 built house right now, but we wanted to make sure we were able to get everyone as they build in the future.  Using a combination of 1x4 and 1x2 splitters, we were able to design this on a 12 fiber drop cable. 

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:26:46 AM, you wrote:





You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of  course. Just set up a spreadsheet and play with it. 

On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:




There's insertion loss at each splitter too.  How may of the 10/90 splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light?

Class B or class C optics?


-- Original Message --
From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT





Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile too. 

The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON techs.

Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal" PLC splitter to serve multiple drops. 

We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the cabinet. 

On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:




Yup that's a thing.  That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10.  

I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't remember the name o

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread chuck
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTI know I would be interested in seeing a simple line 
drawing schematic of this example.

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:22 AM
To: Chris Fabien 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chris,

You can do very creative things with splitters.  I just finished designing 
service to 64 lots down a 4.5 mile dirt road.  We didn't want to spend a bunch 
of money being there are only about 20 built house right now, but we wanted to 
make sure we were able to get everyone as they build in the future.  Using a 
combination of 1x4 and 1x2 splitters, we were able to design this on a 12 fiber 
drop cable. 

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:26:46 AM, you wrote:


 You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few 
handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about 12-15 
handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are starting 
further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of  course. Just set up a 
spreadsheet and play with it. 

  On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

   There's insertion loss at each splitter too.  How may of the 10/90 
splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light?

Class B or class C optics?


-- Original Message --
From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM
        Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


 Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where 
you have long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per 
mile too. 

  The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those 
can be made in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers 
meet. They are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON 
wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON techs.

  Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a 
second "normal" PLC splitter to serve multiple drops. 

  We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or 
so handhole with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from 
the cabinet. 

  On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

   Yup that's a thing.  That was actually my plan "A", 
except where he's got 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10.  

I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other 
type which I can't remember the name of can be uneven.  
In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's 
called a "coupler", and the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating 
sleeve".


-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
        To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


 Interesting, so you have splitters that divide 
light unevenly? Or am I misunderstanding you? 

  On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared 
the ZTE GPON stuff with Ubiquiti's offering...

  On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien 
<ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:

 We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN 
PLC to fees drops at that splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 
10% into the 1x4 and 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. 
Troubleshooting can be tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything. 
 The benefit is I can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 
12ct mainline and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going.

On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

 Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at 
each drop? I've been considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any 
problem(s) arise, seems like a nightmare.


On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien 
<ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:

 With some very appreciated help from Gerard 
myself and another Michigan ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards 
description is accurate. The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the 
F660 ONU we went with, if you require a custom

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Jason McKemie
Mark -

You're just using standard splitters?

On Thursday, February 15, 2018, Mark - Myakka Technologies <m...@mailmt.com>
wrote:

> Chris,
>
> You can do very creative things with splitters.  I just finished designing
> service to 64 lots down a 4.5 mile dirt road.  We didn't want to spend a
> bunch of money being there are only about 20 built house right now, but we
> wanted to make sure we were able to get everyone as they build in the
> future.  Using a combination of 1x4 and 1x2 splitters, we were able to
> design this on a 12 fiber drop cable.
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards, Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
> <m...@mailmt.com>
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *-- Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:26:46 AM, you wrote: *
>
> You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few
> handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about
> 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are
> starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of  course. Just set up
> a spreadsheet and play with it.
>
> On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> There's insertion loss at each splitter too.  How may of the 10/90
> splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light?
>
> Class B or class C optics?
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
>
> Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have
> long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile
> too.
>
> The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in
> any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are
> common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON
> wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON
> techs.
>
> Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal"
> PLC splitter to serve multiple drops.
>
> We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole
> with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the
> cabinet.
>
> On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yup that's a thing.  That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got
> 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10.
>
> I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't
> remember the name of can be uneven.
> In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and
> the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve".
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
> Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
>
> Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I
> misunderstanding you?
>
> On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with
> Ubiquiti's offering...
>
> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>
> We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that
> splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and
> 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be
> tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything.  The benefit is I
> can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline
> and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going.
>
> On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
> wrote:
>
> Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been
> considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise,
> seems like a nightmare.
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>
> With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan
> ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate.
> The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went
> with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router
> that solves the problem.
>
> Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway
> when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC
> wifi

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Mark - Myakka Technologies
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Chris,

You can do very creative things with splitters.  I just finished designing service to 64 lots down a 4.5 mile dirt road.  We didn't want to spend a bunch of money being there are only about 20 built house right now, but we wanted to make sure we were able to get everyone as they build in the future.  Using a combination of 1x4 and 1x2 splitters, we were able to design this on a 12 fiber drop cable. 

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:26:46 AM, you wrote:






You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of  course. Just set up a spreadsheet and play with it. 

On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:




There's insertion loss at each splitter too.  How may of the 10/90 splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light?

Class B or class C optics?


-- Original Message --
From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT





Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile too. 

The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON techs.

Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal" PLC splitter to serve multiple drops. 

We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the cabinet. 

On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:




Yup that's a thing.  That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10.  

I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't remember the name of can be uneven.  
In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve".


-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT





Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I misunderstanding you? 

On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with Ubiquiti's offering...

On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:




We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything.  The benefit is I can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going.

On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:




Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise, seems like a nightmare.


On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:




With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate. The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router that solves the problem.

Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC wifi and voip.

We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a lot of money on strand count in our low density rural areas.



On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote:




Chuck,

Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of several other operators using the same setup now too. 

It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality made unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried. 

You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to t

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread chuck
Just like tap loss on CATV if you have ever done one of those.  Taps closer to 
the amp have less insertion loss than taps further down the road.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 5:26 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few 
handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about 12-15 
handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are starting 
further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of  course. Just set up a 
spreadsheet and play with it. 

On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

  There's insertion loss at each splitter too.  How may of the 10/90 splitters 
can you put inline before you get too low on light?

  Class B or class C optics?


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have 
long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile too.  

The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in 
any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are 
common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON wavelengths, 
but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON techs.

Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal" 
PLC splitter to serve multiple drops. 

We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole 
with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the cabinet. 

On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

  Yup that's a thing.  That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got 
30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10.  

  I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't 
remember the name of can be uneven.  
  In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and 
the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve".


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
  To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
  Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I 
misunderstanding you?  

On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff 
with Ubiquiti's offering...

On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:

  We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at 
that splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and 
90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be tricky, 
we test light as we splice to verify everything.  The benefit is I can pass 2 
miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline and still have 
11 unused strands at the end to keep going.


  On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:

Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been 
considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise, seems 
like a nightmare. 


On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> 
wrote:

  With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another 
Michigan ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is 
accurate. The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we 
went with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router 
that solves the problem. 

  Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res 
gateway when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC 
wifi and voip.

  We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved 
us a lot of money on strand count in our low density rural areas.



  On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> 
wrote:

Chuck, 

Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of 
several other operators using the same setup now too. 

It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and 
quality made unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried. 


You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about 
$1500 shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to 
this Huawei version. 
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original-Huawei-MA560

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread chuck
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTIn the olden days, 20km restriction was related to 
timing delay.  

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:23 PM
To: Chris Fabien 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chris,

I think the 60km max reach and 20km ONU restriction is part of the GPON 
standard and all manufacturers should have it.

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 11:01:24 PM, you wrote:


 Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max 
difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that 
needs to be set. 

  We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is 
about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx 
sens. 

  I've been very impressed with the optical performance.

  We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE

  On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

   That's also a compelling point.

It's not a simple question for sure.  

The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger 
company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what 
THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON. 

Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably 
have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind 
too.


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
        Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


 When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 
invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber 
and outdoor cabinets.  

  When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per 
customer.  
  For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time 
convincing myself to do PON.  

  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
  To: Chuck McCown
          Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Chuck,

  PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.MyakkaTech.com

  --

  Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:


   Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross 
connect boxes?

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
To: Adam Moffett
                Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Adam,

There are some ranging things you have to consider.  
"The requirement
when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between 
two ONTs cannot
exceed 20Km."

The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we 
travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods.

We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will 
splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were 
using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles 
depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to 
ribbons 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.  

We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to 
optimize max usage per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on 
our ports.





-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:


 Maybe I need to review the math.

  I was figuring on several small splitters along 
the route.  I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I 
brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus 
ethernet.


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" 
<m...@mailmt.com>
  To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
          Sent: 2/12/2018 11:3

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread chuck
What are you using for handholes?  Full traffic rated handholes are a large 
expense.
I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea 
already exists I would rather just buy them.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max difference of 
20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that needs to be 
set.  

We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is about 
+5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx sens. 

I've been very impressed with the optical performance.

We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE

On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

  That's also a compelling point.

  It's not a simple question for sure.  

  The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted 
to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY will 
prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON. 

  Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a bias 
towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind too.


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe 
electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor 
cabinets.  

When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.  
For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to 
do PON.  

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
    To: Chuck McCown 
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:


 Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?

  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
  To: Adam Moffett
      Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Adam,

  There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
  when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
  exceed 20Km."

  The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long 
stretches of roads between neighborhoods.

  We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into 
the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 count 
cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending on 
density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12.  
We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.  

  We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max 
usage per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.





  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.MyakkaTech.com

  --

  Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:


   Maybe I need to review the math.

I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I 
didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every 
fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.


-- Original Message --
From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com>
To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
        Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


 Adam,

  How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on 
a 1x32 split.  Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.MyakkaTech.com

  --

  Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:


   I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per 
mile).  As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that 
if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 
times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road.  A

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Chris Fabien
They have a couple different options to achieve this, but they are much
more expensive than just putting the bare splitters in whatever splice
tray/closure they prefer.

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com> wrote:

> I think it's Commscope (TE) that also has a solution that is for FBT with
> their MST/DLX options.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:26 AM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>
>> You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few
>> handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about
>> 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are
>> starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of  course. Just set up
>> a spreadsheet and play with it.
>>
>> On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> There's insertion loss at each splitter too.  How may of the 10/90
>>> splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light?
>>>
>>> Class B or class C optics?
>>>
>>>
>>> ------ Original Message --
>>> From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have
>>> long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile
>>> too.
>>>
>>> The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made
>>> in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They
>>> are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON
>>> wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON
>>> techs.
>>>
>>> Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second
>>> "normal" PLC splitter to serve multiple drops.
>>>
>>> We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so
>>> handhole with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from
>>> the cabinet.
>>>
>>> On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yup that's a thing.  That was actually my plan "A", except where he's
>>>> got 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10.
>>>>
>>>> I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't
>>>> remember the name of can be uneven.
>>>> In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler",
>>>> and the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- Original Message --
>>>> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>>>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>>>> Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>>
>>>> Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I
>>>> misunderstanding you?
>>>>
>>>> On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff
>>>> with Ubiquiti's offering...
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at
>>>>> that splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4
>>>>> and 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can 
>>>>> be
>>>>> tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything.  The benefit is I
>>>>> can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline
>>>>> and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <
>>>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been
>>>>> considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise,
>>>>> seems like a nightmare.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>&

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Jon Langeler
How much margin above sensitivity should be targeted?

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Feb 14, 2018, at 11:01 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
> 
> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max difference 
> of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that needs to 
> be set. 
> 
> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is about 
> +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx sens. 
> 
> I've been very impressed with the optical performance.
> 
> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE
> 
>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> That's also a compelling point.
>> 
>> It's not a simple question for sure.  
>> 
>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted 
>> to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY will 
>> prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON. 
>> 
>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a 
>> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind too.
>> 
>> 
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>> 
>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe 
>>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor 
>>> cabinets.  
>>>  
>>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. 
>>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to 
>>> do PON. 
>>>  
>>> From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
>>> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
>>> To: Chuck McCown
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>  
>>> Chuck,
>>> 
>>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Best regards,
>>> Mark            mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>> 
>>> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
>>> www.MyakkaTech.com
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?
>>> 
>>> From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
>>> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
>>> To: Adam Moffett
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>> 
>>> Adam,
>>> 
>>> There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
>>> when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
>>> exceed 20Km."
>>> 
>>> The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long 
>>> stretches of roads between neighborhoods.
>>> 
>>> We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the 
>>> last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 count 
>>> cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending on 
>>> density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 
>>> 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.  
>>> 
>>> We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per 
>>> port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Best regards,
>>> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>> 
>>> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
>>> www.MyakkaTech.com
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Maybe I need to review the math.
>>> 
>>> I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I didn't 
>>> compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber 
>>> back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com>
>>> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Adam,
>>> 
>>> How far are yo

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Chuck Hogg
I think it's Commscope (TE) that also has a solution that is for FBT with
their MST/DLX options.

Regards,
Chuck

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:26 AM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:

> You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few
> handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about
> 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are
> starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of  course. Just set up
> a spreadsheet and play with it.
>
> On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> There's insertion loss at each splitter too.  How may of the 10/90
>> splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light?
>>
>> Class B or class C optics?
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have
>> long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile
>> too.
>>
>> The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made
>> in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They
>> are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON
>> wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON
>> techs.
>>
>> Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second
>> "normal" PLC splitter to serve multiple drops.
>>
>> We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole
>> with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the
>> cabinet.
>>
>> On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Yup that's a thing.  That was actually my plan "A", except where he's
>>> got 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10.
>>>
>>> I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't
>>> remember the name of can be uneven.
>>> In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler",
>>> and the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve".
>>>
>>>
>>> -- Original Message --
>>> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>>> Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I
>>> misunderstanding you?
>>>
>>> On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with
>>> Ubiquiti's offering...
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that
>>>> splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and
>>>> 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be
>>>> tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything.  The benefit is I
>>>> can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline
>>>> and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going.
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mckemie@veloxinetbroadband.
>>>> com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been
>>>> considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise,
>>>> seems like a nightmare.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another
>>>>> Michigan ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is
>>>>> accurate. The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU
>>>>> we went with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a 
>>>>> different
>>>>> router that solves the problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway
>>>>> when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC
>>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Chris Fabien
You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few
handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about
12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are
starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of  course. Just set up
a spreadsheet and play with it.

On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> There's insertion loss at each splitter too.  How may of the 10/90
> splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light?
>
> Class B or class C optics?
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have
> long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile
> too.
>
> The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in
> any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are
> common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON
> wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON
> techs.
>
> Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal"
> PLC splitter to serve multiple drops.
>
> We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole
> with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the
> cabinet.
>
> On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yup that's a thing.  That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got
>> 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10.
>>
>> I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't
>> remember the name of can be uneven.
>> In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and
>> the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve".
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>> Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I
>> misunderstanding you?
>>
>> On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with
>> Ubiquiti's offering...
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that
>>> splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and
>>> 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be
>>> tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything.  The benefit is I
>>> can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline
>>> and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going.
>>>
>>> On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mckemie@veloxinetbroadband.
>>> com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been
>>> considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise,
>>> seems like a nightmare.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan
>>>> ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate.
>>>> The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went
>>>> with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router
>>>> that solves the problem.
>>>>
>>>> Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway
>>>> when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC
>>>> wifi and voip.
>>>>
>>>> We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a
>>>> lot of money on strand count in our low density rural areas.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Chuck,
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of
>>>>> several other operators using the same setup now too.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-15 Thread Adam Moffett
There's insertion loss at each splitter too.  How may of the 10/90 
splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light?


Class B or class C optics?


-- Original Message --
From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have 
long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile 
too.


The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made 
in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. 
They are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical 
GPON wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 
10G PON techs.


Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second 
"normal" PLC splitter to serve multiple drops.


We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so 
handhole with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles 
from the cabinet.


On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
Yup that's a thing.  That was actually my plan "A", except where he's 
got 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10.


I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I 
can't remember the name of can be uneven.
In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", 
and the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve".



-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com 
<mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>>

To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am 
I misunderstanding you?


On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff 
with Ubiquiti's offering...


On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> 
wrote:
We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at 
that splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into 
the 1x4 and 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. 
Troubleshooting can be tricky, we test light as we splice to verify 
everything.  The benefit is I can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses 
using one strand on a 12ct mainline and still have 11 unused strands 
at the end to keep going.


On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com 
<mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>> wrote:
Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been 
considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) 
arise, seems like a nightmare.



On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> 
wrote:
With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another 
Michigan ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards 
description is accurate. The only issue we have found is some 
Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went with, if you require a customer 
owned router or provide a different router that solves the 
problem.


Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res 
gateway when they are available in a couple months. All in one 
unit with 4x4 AC wifi and voip.


We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved 
us a lot of money on strand count in our low density rural areas.




On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> 
wrote:

Chuck,

Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of 
several other operators using the same setup now too.


It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and 
quality made unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried.


You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 
shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very 
similar to this Huawei version. 
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_60442562681.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx 
<https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_60442562681.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx>


Gerard

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> 
wrote:

That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing.

You are using this now?

From:Gerard Dupont
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support.

ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 
http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html 
<http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-with-one-ethern

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-14 Thread Jon Langeler
Nice planning. How are you calculating your ratios and such? FS supplying the 
splitter?

Jon Langeler
Michwave Technologies, Inc.


> On Feb 14, 2018, at 10:50 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have long 
> linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile too. 
> 
> The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in 
> any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are 
> common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON wavelengths, 
> but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON techs.
> 
> Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal" 
> PLC splitter to serve multiple drops. 
> 
> We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole 
> with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the cabinet. 
> 
>> On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yup that's a thing.  That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got 
>> 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10.  
>> 
>> I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't 
>> remember the name of can be uneven.  
>> In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and 
>> the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve".
>> 
>> 
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
>> Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>> 
>>> Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I 
>>> misunderstanding you? 
>>> 
>>> On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with 
>>> Ubiquiti's offering...
>>> 
>>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>>>> We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that 
>>>> splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and 
>>>> 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be 
>>>> tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything.  The benefit is I 
>>>> can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline 
>>>> and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going.
>>>> 
>>>> On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" 
>>>> <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote:
>>>> Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been 
>>>> considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise, 
>>>> seems like a nightmare.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>>>>> With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan 
>>>>> ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate. 
>>>>> The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went 
>>>>> with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different 
>>>>> router that solves the problem.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway 
>>>>> when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC 
>>>>> wifi and voip.
>>>>> 
>>>>> We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a lot 
>>>>> of money on strand count in our low density rural areas.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Chuck,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of several 
>>>>>> other operators using the same setup now too. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality 
>>>>>> made unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 
>>>>>> shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-14 Thread Mark - Myakka Technologies
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Chris,

I think the 60km max reach and 20km ONU restriction is part of the GPON standard and all manufacturers should have it.

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 11:01:24 PM, you wrote:






Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that needs to be set. 

We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx sens. 

I've been very impressed with the optical performance.

We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE

On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:




That's also a compelling point.

It's not a simple question for sure.  

The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON. 

Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind too.


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT





When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets.  
 
When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.  
For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON.  
 
From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
 
Chuck,

PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:





Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
To: Adam Moffett
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Adam,

There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
exceed 20Km."

The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods.

We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.  

We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.





-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:





Maybe I need to review the math.

I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.


-- Original Message --
From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com>
To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT





Adam,

How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split.  Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:





I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road.  At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch.

Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me.

I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to.

We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited.

-Adam


-- Original Message -

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-14 Thread Chris Fabien
Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max
difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter
that needs to be set.

We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is
about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx
sens.

I've been very impressed with the optical performance.

We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE

On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> That's also a compelling point.
>
> It's not a simple question for sure.
>
> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company
> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what
> THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.
>
> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a
> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind
> too.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe
> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor
> cabinets.
>
> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.
> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to
> do PON.
>
> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
> *To:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Chuck,
>
> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:*
>
> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?
>
> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
> *To:* Adam Moffett
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Adam,
>
> There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
> when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
> exceed 20Km."
>
> The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long
> stretches of roads between neighborhoods.
>
> We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the
> last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 count
> cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending on
> density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons
> 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.
>
> We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage
> per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:*
>
> Maybe I need to review the math.
>
> I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I didn't
> compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber
> back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com>
> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
>
> Adam,
>
> How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split.
> Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *--Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:*
>
> I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm looking
> at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line
> down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then
> I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road.  At 5 or so houses
> per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch.
>
> Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers just aren't
> seeming to work out for me.
>
> I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON
> some day if I want to.
>
> We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the pas

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-14 Thread Chris Fabien
Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have
long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile
too.

The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in
any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are
common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON
wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON
techs.

Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal"
PLC splitter to serve multiple drops.

We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole
with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the
cabinet.

On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yup that's a thing.  That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got
> 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10.
>
> I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't
> remember the name of can be uneven.
> In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and
> the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve".
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
> Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I
> misunderstanding you?
>
> On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with
> Ubiquiti's offering...
>
> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>
>> We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that
>> splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and
>> 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be
>> tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything.  The benefit is I
>> can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline
>> and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going.
>>
>> On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mckemie@veloxinetbroadband.
>> com> wrote:
>>
>> Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been
>> considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise,
>> seems like a nightmare.
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>>
>>> With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan
>>> ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate.
>>> The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went
>>> with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router
>>> that solves the problem.
>>>
>>> Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway
>>> when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC
>>> wifi and voip.
>>>
>>> We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a
>>> lot of money on strand count in our low density rural areas.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Chuck,
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of
>>>> several other operators using the same setup now too.
>>>>
>>>> It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality
>>>> made unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried.
>>>>
>>>> You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500
>>>> shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to
>>>> this Huawei version. https://www.alibaba.com/produc
>>>> t-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_604425626
>>>> 81.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx
>>>>
>>>> Gerard
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing.
>>>>>
>>>>> You are using this now?
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Gerard Dupont
>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM
>>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>>>
>>&

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-14 Thread Adam Moffett
Yup that's a thing.  That was actually my plan "A", except where he's 
got 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10.


I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't 
remember the name of can be uneven.
In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", 
and the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve".



-- Original Message --
From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I 
misunderstanding you?


On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff 
with Ubiquiti's offering...


On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> 
wrote:
We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at 
that splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 
1x4 and 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. 
Troubleshooting can be tricky, we test light as we splice to verify 
everything.  The benefit is I can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses 
using one strand on a 12ct mainline and still have 11 unused strands 
at the end to keep going.


On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com 
<mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>> wrote:
Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been 
considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) 
arise, seems like a nightmare.



On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> 
wrote:
With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another 
Michigan ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards 
description is accurate. The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi 
bugs in the F660 ONU we went with, if you require a customer owned 
router or provide a different router that solves the problem.


Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res 
gateway when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit 
with 4x4 AC wifi and voip.


We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us 
a lot of money on strand count in our low density rural areas.




On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> 
wrote:

Chuck,

Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of 
several other operators using the same setup now too.


It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and 
quality made unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried.


You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 
shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very 
similar to this Huawei version. 
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_60442562681.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx 
<https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_60442562681.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx>


Gerard

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> 
wrote:

That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing.

You are using this now?

From:Gerard Dupont
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support.

ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 
http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html 
<http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html>
ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 
http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-original-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port-wifienglish-interface_p1206.html 
<http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-original-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port-wifienglish-interface_p1206.html>
Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 
http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391 
<http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391>
30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS 
https://www.fs.com/products/20745.html 
<https://www.fs.com/products/20745.html>

20M $7.66
10M $5.66
Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link)

ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200 
$2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization..
Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024 
customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util.


32 port rackmount splitter. $84 
https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html 
<https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html>
32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 
https://www.fs.com/products/11528.html 
<https://www.fs.com/products/11528.html>

8 port bare splitter for splice case $5

None of that includes 

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-14 Thread Jason McKemie
Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I
misunderstanding you?

On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with
Ubiquiti's offering...

On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:

> We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that
> splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and
> 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be
> tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything.  The benefit is I
> can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline
> and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going.
>
> On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
> wrote:
>
> Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been
> considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise,
> seems like a nightmare.
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:
>
>> With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan
>> ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate.
>> The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went
>> with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router
>> that solves the problem.
>>
>> Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway
>> when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC
>> wifi and voip.
>>
>> We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a lot
>> of money on strand count in our low density rural areas.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Chuck,
>>>
>>> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of
>>> several other operators using the same setup now too.
>>>
>>> It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality
>>> made unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried.
>>>
>>> You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500
>>> shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to
>>> this Huawei version. https://www.alibaba.com/produc
>>> t-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_604425626
>>> 81.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx
>>>
>>> Gerard
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing.
>>>>
>>>> You are using this now?
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Gerard Dupont
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM
>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>>
>>>> Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support.
>>>>
>>>> ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon
>>>> -terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-
>>>> with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html
>>>> ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-o
>>>> riginal-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port
>>>> -wifienglish-interface_p1206.html
>>>> Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connec
>>>> tor_0391
>>>> 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS
>>>> https://www.fs.com/products/20745.html
>>>> 20M $7.66
>>>> 10M $5.66
>>>> Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link)
>>>>
>>>> ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200
>>>> $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization..
>>>> Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024
>>>> customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util.
>>>>
>>>> 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html
>>>> 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14
>>>> https://www.fs.com/products/11528.html
>>>> 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5
>>>>
>>>> None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a
>>>> few hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees.
>>>>
>>>> Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per
>>>> customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC 

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-13 Thread Chris Fabien
We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that
splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and
90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be
tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything.  The benefit is I
can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline
and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going.

On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
wrote:

Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been
considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise,
seems like a nightmare.


On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:

> With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan
> ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate.
> The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went
> with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router
> that solves the problem.
>
> Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway
> when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC
> wifi and voip.
>
> We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a lot
> of money on strand count in our low density rural areas.
>
>
>
> On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote:
>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of
>> several other operators using the same setup now too.
>>
>> It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality made
>> unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried.
>>
>> You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500
>> shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to
>> this Huawei version. https://www.alibaba.com/produc
>> t-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_604425626
>> 81.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx
>>
>> Gerard
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>>> That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing.
>>>
>>> You are using this now?
>>>
>>> *From:* Gerard Dupont
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support.
>>>
>>> ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon
>>> -terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-
>>> with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html
>>> ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-o
>>> riginal-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port
>>> -wifienglish-interface_p1206.html
>>> Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391
>>> 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/20
>>> 745.html
>>> 20M $7.66
>>> 10M $5.66
>>> Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link)
>>>
>>> ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200
>>> $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization..
>>> Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024
>>> customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util.
>>>
>>> 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html
>>> 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/11
>>> 528.html
>>> 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5
>>>
>>> None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few
>>> hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees.
>>>
>>> Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per
>>> customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS
>>> + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per
>>> port.
>>>
>>> You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU
>>> management/monitoring (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount)
>>>
>>> I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always
>>> overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to
>>> upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to
>>> combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-13 Thread Jason McKemie
Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been
considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise,
seems like a nightmare.

On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote:

> With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan
> ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate.
> The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went
> with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router
> that solves the problem.
>
> Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway
> when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC
> wifi and voip.
>
> We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a lot
> of money on strand count in our low density rural areas.
>
>
>
> On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote:
>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of
>> several other operators using the same setup now too.
>>
>> It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality made
>> unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried.
>>
>> You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500
>> shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to
>> this Huawei version. https://www.alibaba.com/produc
>> t-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_604425626
>> 81.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx
>>
>> Gerard
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>>> That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing.
>>>
>>> You are using this now?
>>>
>>> *From:* Gerard Dupont
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support.
>>>
>>> ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon
>>> -terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-
>>> with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html
>>> ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-o
>>> riginal-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port
>>> -wifienglish-interface_p1206.html
>>> Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391
>>> 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/20
>>> 745.html
>>> 20M $7.66
>>> 10M $5.66
>>> Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link)
>>>
>>> ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200
>>> $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization..
>>> Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024
>>> customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util.
>>>
>>> 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html
>>> 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/11
>>> 528.html
>>> 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5
>>>
>>> None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few
>>> hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees.
>>>
>>> Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per
>>> customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS
>>> + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per
>>> port.
>>>
>>> You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU
>>> management/monitoring (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount)
>>>
>>> I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always
>>> overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to
>>> upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to
>>> combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different
>>> wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's.
>>>
>>> Gerard
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ONT Housing (Clam Shell)  $   29.00
>>>> ONT  $ 215.00
>>>> Unicam  $   15.00
>>>> Cyber Power  $   81.00
>>>> Cyber Install  $ 110.00
>>>> House Sub Total * $ 450.00

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-13 Thread Chris Fabien
With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan ISP
have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate. The
only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went with,
if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router that
solves the problem.

Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway when
they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC wifi and
voip.

We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a lot
of money on strand count in our low density rural areas.



On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote:

> Chuck,
>
> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of
> several other operators using the same setup now too.
>
> It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality made
> unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried.
>
> You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 shipped.
> I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to this Huawei
> version. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original-Huawei-
> MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_60442562681.html?spm=a2700.
> 7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx
>
> Gerard
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
>> That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing.
>>
>> You are using this now?
>>
>> *From:* Gerard Dupont
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support.
>>
>> ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon
>> -terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-
>> with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html
>> ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-o
>> riginal-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port
>> -wifienglish-interface_p1206.html
>> Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391
>> 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/20
>> 745.html
>> 20M $7.66
>> 10M $5.66
>> Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link)
>>
>> ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200
>> $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization..
>> Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024
>> customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util.
>>
>> 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html
>> 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/11
>> 528.html
>> 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5
>>
>> None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few
>> hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees.
>>
>> Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per
>> customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS
>> + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per
>> port.
>>
>> You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU management/monitoring
>> (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount)
>>
>> I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always
>> overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to
>> upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to
>> combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different
>> wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's.
>>
>> Gerard
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>>> ONT Housing (Clam Shell)  $   29.00
>>> ONT  $ 215.00
>>> Unicam  $   15.00
>>> Cyber Power  $       81.00
>>> Cyber Install  $ 110.00
>>> House Sub Total * $ 450.00 *
>>>
>>> OLT $11K/8/32  $   42.97
>>> OIM $845/32  $   38.27
>>> Splitter $900/32  $   39.43
>>> DLC per Sub Subtotal * $ 120.67 *
>>>
>>>
>>> Electronics/Sub Total Expense * $ 570.67 *
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM
>>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> Chuck,
>>>
>>> Dug up some of my costs on the GPON.  One port with a C+ class laser

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Mark - Myakka Technologies
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Gerard,

Not going to argue about that.  But there were several factors on our zhone equipment decision.  The main factor was when we started several years ago, those super cheap options didn't exist.  Not to mention we didn't have time to experiment.  A secondary factor was their location.  The have a manufacturing plant about an hour away from us.  To be 100% honest, we didn't know what the hell we were getting ourselves into when we started.  The security blanket of having zhone engineers that close to us to help us with any issues was very appealing.  We never have had to have an engineer come by, but I have used the phone support many of times.  Sometimes it was their issue, other mine.  But either way it was usually fixed within a day.  I'm to the point now, I just want crap to work.  If it doesn't work I want some guidance on how to make it work.  I'm getting lazy in my old age.  If I was 15 years younger and just starting out, I think I would give the ZTE stuff a try.  But we are all in on zhone, it works very well and I get the support I need to make me less grumpy over time.

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 6:22:35 PM, you wrote:





Mark,

I'm willing to bet that ZTE or Huawei has more installed units than Zhone does by several orders of magnitude. Plus with the prices so cheap you can afford to have spares of everything.

Chuck,

I didn't see your detailed numbers for the AE deployment. What equipment are you using for that? Don't forget about space/power/cooling requirements for AE.

This C320 shelf only sips about 100 watts with 7-8 olt ports enabled.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 6:08 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:




It is $65 vs my $100 for AE.  
 
So I have to spend $35 more. But I get AE.
And AE is much simpler.  
Arguably better too.  
 
There is so much cost in construction saving $35/customer is getting into that region of diminishing returns.  
 
Perhaps in a year I may change my mind.  
 
From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 3:58 PM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
 
Chuck,

But do you really need to get the cost down that low?  I will admit and most people on this list that know me will agree, I'm a cheap SOB.  But, there is a point where it is worth paying a bit more up front in order to sleep better at night.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 4:51:32 PM, you wrote:





That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing.  

You are using this now?

From: Gerard Dupont
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support.

ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html
ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-original-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port-wifienglish-interface_p1206.html
Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391
30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/20745.html
20M $7.66
10M $5.66
Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link)

ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200 $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization..
Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024 customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util.

32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html
32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/11528.html
8 port bare splitter for splice case $5

None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees.

Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per port.

You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU management/monitoring (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount)

I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's.

Gerard


On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:






ONT Housing (Clam Shell)

$           29.00 


ONT

$         215.00 


Unicam

$           15.00 


Cyber Power

$           81.00 


C

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Gerard Dupont
Mark,

I'm willing to bet that ZTE or Huawei has more installed units than Zhone
does by several orders of magnitude. Plus with the prices so cheap you can
afford to have spares of everything.

Chuck,

I didn't see your detailed numbers for the AE deployment. What equipment
are you using for that? Don't forget about space/power/cooling requirements
for AE.

This C320 shelf only sips about 100 watts with 7-8 olt ports enabled.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 6:08 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> It is $65 vs my $100 for AE.
>
> So I have to spend $35 more. But I get AE.
> And AE is much simpler.
> Arguably better too.
>
> There is so much cost in construction saving $35/customer is getting into
> that region of diminishing returns.
>
> Perhaps in a year I may change my mind.
>
> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 3:58 PM
> *To:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Chuck,
>
> But do you really need to get the cost down that low?  I will admit and
> most people on this list that know me will agree, I'm a cheap SOB.  But,
> there is a point where it is worth paying a bit more up front in order to
> sleep better at night.
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 4:51:32 PM, you wrote:*
>
> That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing.
>
> You are using this now?
>
> *From:* Gerard Dupont
> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support.
>
> ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-
> gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-
> gpon-onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html
> ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-
> original-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-
> port-wifienglish-interface_p1206.html
> Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391
> 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/
> 20745.html
> 20M $7.66
> 10M $5.66
> Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link)
>
> ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200
> $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization..
> Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024
> customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util.
>
> 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html
> 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/
> 11528.html
> 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5
>
> None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few
> hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees.
>
> Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per
> customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS
> + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per
> port.
>
> You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU management/monitoring
> (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount)
>
> I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always
> overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to
> upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to
> combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different
> wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's.
>
> Gerard
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
> ONT Housing (Clam Shell)
> $   29.00
> ONT
> $ 215.00
> Unicam
> $   15.00
> Cyber Power
> $   81.00
> Cyber Install
> $ 110.00
> House Sub Total
> *$ 450.00 *
> OLT $11K/8/32
> $       42.97
> OIM $845/32
> $   38.27
> Splitter $900/32
> $   39.43
> DLC per Sub Subtotal
> *$ 120.67 *
> Electronics/Sub Total Expense
> *$ 570.67 *
>
>
> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM
> *To:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Chuck,
>
> Dug up some of my costs on the GPON.  One port with a C+ class laser and a
> 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000.
>
>
> So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per
> user.  Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for
> electronics.  As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better.  But,
> we are o

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Chuck McCown
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTIt is $65 vs my $100 for AE.  

So I have to spend $35 more. But I get AE.
And AE is much simpler.  
Arguably better too.  

There is so much cost in construction saving $35/customer is getting into that 
region of diminishing returns.  

Perhaps in a year I may change my mind.  

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 3:58 PM
To: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

But do you really need to get the cost down that low?  I will admit and most 
people on this list that know me will agree, I'm a cheap SOB.  But, there is a 
point where it is worth paying a bit more up front in order to sleep better at 
night.

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 4:51:32 PM, you wrote:


 That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing.  

  You are using this now?

  From: Gerard Dupont
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support.

  ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 
http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html
  ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 
http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-original-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port-wifienglish-interface_p1206.html
  Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391
  30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS 
https://www.fs.com/products/20745.html
  20M $7.66
  10M $5.66
  Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link)

  ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200 
$2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization..
  Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024 
customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util.

  32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html
  32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 
https://www.fs.com/products/11528.html
  8 port bare splitter for splice case $5

  None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few 
hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees.

  Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per 
customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS + 
$10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per port.

  You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU management/monitoring 
(tell Adrian I sent you for a discount)

  I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always 
overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to 
upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to combine 
both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different wavelengths they 
will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's.

  Gerard


  On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

   ONT Housing (Clam Shell) $   29.00  
  ONT $ 215.00  
  Unicam $   15.00  
  Cyber Power $   81.00  
  Cyber Install $ 110.00  
  House Sub Total $ 450.00  
  
  OLT $11K/8/32 $   42.97  
  OIM $845/32 $   38.27  
  Splitter $900/32 $   39.43  
  DLC per Sub Subtotal $ 120.67  
  
  
  Electronics/Sub Total Expense $ 570.67  


From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

Dug up some of my costs on the GPON.  One port with a C+ class 
laser and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000.


So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about 
$62 per user.  Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for 
electronics.  As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better.  But, we 
are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI.  Remember we are 
debating fiber.  I have ONT's out there over 72 months old.  I'm sure Chuck has 
some at least 2 or 3 years older than that.  I don't plan on any type of major 
upgrade for several years.

But I must stress there is no right answer.  AE vs GPON.  You need 
to make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision.  Not 
to mention, you can run both.  We are setup to do AE,  We currently have 2 
customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side.

-- 
Best r

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Gerard Dupont
Chuck,

Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of
several other operators using the same setup now too.

It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality made
unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried.

You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 shipped.
I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to this Huawei
version. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original-
Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_60442562681.html?spm=
a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx

Gerard

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing.
>
> You are using this now?
>
> *From:* Gerard Dupont
> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support.
>
> ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon
> -terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-
> onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html
> ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-o
> riginal-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port
> -wifienglish-interface_p1206.html
> Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391
> 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/
> 20745.html
> 20M $7.66
> 10M $5.66
> Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link)
>
> ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200
> $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization..
> Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024
> customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util.
>
> 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html
> 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/
> 11528.html
> 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5
>
> None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few
> hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees.
>
> Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per
> customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS
> + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per
> port.
>
> You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU management/monitoring
> (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount)
>
> I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always
> overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to
> upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to
> combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different
> wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's.
>
> Gerard
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
>> ONT Housing (Clam Shell)  $   29.00
>> ONT  $ 215.00
>> Unicam  $   15.00
>> Cyber Power  $   81.00
>> Cyber Install  $ 110.00
>> House Sub Total * $ 450.00 *
>>
>> OLT $11K/8/32  $   42.97
>> OIM $845/32  $   38.27
>> Splitter $900/32  $   39.43
>> DLC per Sub Subtotal * $ 120.67 *
>>
>>
>> Electronics/Sub Total Expense * $ 570.67 *
>>
>>
>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM
>> *To:* Chuck McCown
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> Chuck,
>>
>> Dug up some of my costs on the GPON.  One port with a C+ class laser and
>> a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000.
>>
>>
>> So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per
>> user.  Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for
>> electronics.  As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better.  But,
>> we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI.  Remember we
>> are debating fiber.  I have ONT's out there over 72 months old.  I'm sure
>> Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that.  I don't plan on any
>> type of major upgrade for several years.
>>
>> But I must stress there is no right answer.  AE vs GPON.  You need to
>> make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision.  Not
>> to mention, you can run both.  We are setup to do AE,  We currently have 2
>> customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side.
>>
>>
>>
>> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>>
>>
>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Mark - Myakka Technologies
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Chuck,

But do you really need to get the cost down that low?  I will admit and most people on this list that know me will agree, I'm a cheap SOB.  But, there is a point where it is worth paying a bit more up front in order to sleep better at night.

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 4:51:32 PM, you wrote:





That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing.  
 
You are using this now?
 
From: Gerard Dupont
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
 
Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support.
 
ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html
ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-original-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port-wifienglish-interface_p1206.html
Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391
30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/20745.html
20M $7.66
10M $5.66
Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link)
 
ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200 $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization..
Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024 customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util.
 
32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html
32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/11528.html
8 port bare splitter for splice case $5
 
None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees.
 
Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per port.
 
You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU management/monitoring (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount)
 
I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's.
 
Gerard
 
 
On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:






ONT Housing (Clam Shell)

 $           29.00 


ONT

 $         215.00 


Unicam

 $           15.00 


Cyber Power

 $           81.00 


Cyber Install

 $         110.00 


House Sub Total

 $         450.00 


 

 


OLT $11K/8/32

 $           42.97 


OIM $845/32

 $           38.27 


Splitter $900/32

 $           39.43 


DLC per Sub Subtotal

 $         120.67 


 

 


 

 


Electronics/Sub Total Expense

 $         570.67 


 
 
From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
 
Chuck,

Dug up some of my costs on the GPON.  One port with a C+ class laser and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000.


So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per user.  Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for electronics.  As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better.  But, we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI.  Remember we are debating fiber.  I have ONT's out there over 72 months old.  I'm sure Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that.  I don't plan on any type of major upgrade for several years.

But I must stress there is no right answer.  AE vs GPON.  You need to make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision.  Not to mention, you can run both.  We are setup to do AE,  We currently have 2 customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote:





When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets.  

When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.  
For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON.  

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:





Are you

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Chuck McCown
That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing.  

You are using this now?

From: Gerard Dupont 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support.


ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 
http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html
ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 
http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-original-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port-wifienglish-interface_p1206.html

Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391
30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/20745.html
20M $7.66
10M $5.66
Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link)

ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200 $2200/16/32=$4.30/per 
customer at 100% utilization..

Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024 customers 
potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util.

32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html
32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/11528.html
8 port bare splitter for splice case $5

None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few 
hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees.

Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per customer. 
+ $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS + $10 for 30M 
pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per port.

You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU management/monitoring (tell 
Adrian I sent you for a discount)

I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always overlay 
10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to upgrade. Just 
add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to combine both OLT ports 
into the single fiber. Since they use different wavelengths they will coexist 
over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's.

Gerard


On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

ONT Housing (Clam Shell)  $   29.00  
ONT  $ 215.00  
Unicam  $   15.00  
Cyber Power  $   81.00  
Cyber Install  $ 110.00  
House Sub Total  $ 450.00  

OLT $11K/8/32  $   42.97  
OIM $845/32  $   38.27  
Splitter $900/32  $   39.43  
DLC per Sub Subtotal  $ 120.67  


Electronics/Sub Total Expense  $ 570.67  



  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM
  To: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Chuck,

  Dug up some of my costs on the GPON.  One port with a C+ class laser and a 
1x32 splitter cost me about $1000.


  So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per 
user.  Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for electronics. 
 As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better.  But, we are only 
talking a different in a few months on the ROI.  Remember we are debating 
fiber.  I have ONT's out there over 72 months old.  I'm sure Chuck has some at 
least 2 or 3 years older than that.  I don't plan on any type of major upgrade 
for several years.

  But I must stress there is no right answer.  AE vs GPON.  You need to make 
sure you fully understand both options before making a decision.  Not to 
mention, you can run both.  We are setup to do AE,  We currently have 2 
customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side.

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.MyakkaTech.com

  --

  Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote:


   When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe 
electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor 
cabinets.  

When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. 
 
For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself 
to do PON.  

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:


 Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?

  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
  To: Adam Moffett
  Subje

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Gerard Dupont
Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support.

ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-
gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-
gpon-onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html
ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-
original-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-
port-wifienglish-interface_p1206.html
Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391
30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/
products/20745.html
20M $7.66
10M $5.66
Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link)

ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200
$2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization..
Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024 customers
potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util.

32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html
32 port bare splitter for splice case $14
https://www.fs.com/products/11528.html
8 port bare splitter for splice case $5

None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few
hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees.

Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per
customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS
+ $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per
port.

You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU management/monitoring
(tell Adrian I sent you for a discount)

I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always overlay
10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to upgrade.
Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to combine both
OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different wavelengths they
will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's.

Gerard


On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> ONT Housing (Clam Shell)  $   29.00
> ONT  $ 215.00
> Unicam  $   15.00
> Cyber Power  $   81.00
> Cyber Install  $ 110.00
> House Sub Total * $ 450.00 *
>
> OLT $11K/8/32  $   42.97
> OIM $845/32  $   38.27
> Splitter $900/32  $   39.43
> DLC per Sub Subtotal * $ 120.67 *
>
>
> Electronics/Sub Total Expense * $ 570.67 *
>
>
> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM
> *To:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Chuck,
>
> Dug up some of my costs on the GPON.  One port with a C+ class laser and a
> 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000.
>
>
> So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per
> user.  Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for
> electronics.  As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better.  But,
> we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI.  Remember we
> are debating fiber.  I have ONT's out there over 72 months old.  I'm sure
> Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that.  I don't plan on any
> type of major upgrade for several years.
>
> But I must stress there is no right answer.  AE vs GPON.  You need to make
> sure you fully understand both options before making a decision.  Not to
> mention, you can run both.  We are setup to do AE,  We currently have 2
> customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side.
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote:*
>
> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe
> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor
> cabinets.
>
> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.
> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to
> do PON.
>
> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
> *To:* Chuck McCown
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Chuck,
>
> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:*
>
> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?
>
> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies
> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
> *To:* Adam Moffett
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> Adam,
>
> There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
> wh

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Chuck McCown
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTAnd regulatory requirement.  Actually the FCC is 
relaxing the 8 hours battery backup requirement.  We may be able to charge the 
customer for UPS capability at some point.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 1:02 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

ah I see.  For telephone reliability?


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/12/2018 3:00:39 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Nope.  It is a requirement for regulated areas, not so for unregulated areas. 
 

  From: Adam Moffett 
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:53 PM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  There's a UPS included in the parts list for PON setup.  Not included on AE?


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: 2/12/2018 2:50:00 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

$100/house for AE

You pay for the splitters that fit the cabinet and cross box.  Some cost 
more than others depending on the sheet metal.  

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:44 PM
    To: Chuck McCown 
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

What would you house total be for AE?  Also $900 for 1x32 splitter, you 
need to find a better vendor.  The bare end PLC's are $14 the fancy 
connectorized ones are $40 at fs.com.  $11K for a 8 port card and $845 for a 
Laser, that's why we didn't/couldn't go with calix.
That $120.67 should be about $40-$50.

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 2:32:03 PM, you wrote:


 ONT Housing (Clam Shell) $   29.00  
ONT $ 215.00  
Unicam $   15.00  
Cyber Power $   81.00  
Cyber Install $ 110.00  
House Sub Total $ 450.00  

OLT $11K/8/32 $   42.97  
OIM $845/32 $   38.27  
Splitter $900/32 $   39.43  
DLC per Sub Subtotal $ 120.67  


Electronics/Sub Total Expense $ 570.67  


  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM
  To: Chuck McCown
      Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Chuck,

  Dug up some of my costs on the GPON.  One port with a C+ class laser 
and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000.


  So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 
per user.  Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for 
electronics.  As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better.  But, we 
are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI.  Remember we are 
debating fiber.  I have ONT's out there over 72 months old.  I'm sure Chuck has 
some at least 2 or 3 years older than that.  I don't plan on any type of major 
upgrade for several years.

  But I must stress there is no right answer.  AE vs GPON.  You need to 
make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision.  Not to 
mention, you can run both.  We are setup to do AE,  We currently have 2 
customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side.

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.MyakkaTech.com

  --

  Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote:


   When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested 
in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and 
outdoor cabinets.  

When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per 
customer.  
For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time 
convincing myself to do PON.  

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
To: Chuck McCown
            Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:


 Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross 
connect boxes?

  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
  To: Adam Moffe

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Adam Moffett

ah I see.  For telephone reliability?


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/12/2018 3:00:39 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Nope.  It is a requirement for regulated areas, not so for unregulated 
areas.


From:Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:53 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

There's a UPS included in the parts list for PON setup.  Not included 
on AE?



-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/12/2018 2:50:00 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


$100/house for AE

You pay for the splitters that fit the cabinet and cross box.  Some 
cost more than others depending on the sheet metal.


From:Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:44 PM
To:Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

What would you house total be for AE?  Also $900 for 1x32 splitter, 
you need to find a better vendor.  The bare end PLC's are $14 the 
fancy connectorized ones are $40 at fs.com.  $11K for a 8 port card 
and $845 for a Laser, that's why we didn't/couldn't go with calix.

That $120.67 should be about $40-$50.

--
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 2:32:03 PM, you wrote:


ONT Housing (Clam Shell)
$   29.00
ONT
$ 215.00
Unicam
$   15.00
Cyber Power
$   81.00
Cyber Install
$ 110.00
House Sub Total
$ 450.00
OLT $11K/8/32
$   42.97
OIM $845/32
$   38.27
Splitter $900/32
$   39.43
DLC per Sub Subtotal
$ 120.67
Electronics/Sub Total Expense
$ 570.67


From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

Dug up some of my costs on the GPON.  One port with a C+ class laser 
and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000.



So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 
per user.  Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for 
electronics.  As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better.  
But, we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI.  
Remember we are debating fiber.  I have ONT's out there over 72 months 
old.  I'm sure Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that.  
I don't plan on any type of major upgrade for several years.


But I must stress there is no right answer.  AE vs GPON.  You need to 
make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision.  
Not to mention, you can run both.  We are setup to do AE,  We 
currently have 2 customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 
on the GPON side.


--
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote:


When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe 
electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and 
outdoor cabinets.


When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per 
customer.
For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing 
myself to do PON.


From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

--
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:


Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
To: Adam Moffett
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Adam,

There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
exceed 20Km."

The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long 
stretches of roads between neighborhoods.


We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into 
the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 
144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few 
miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 
splitter to ribbons 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out 
of light budget.


We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max 
usage per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our 
ports.






--
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:


Maybe I need to review the math.

I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I didn't 
compare to a 1x32 in 

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Chuck McCown
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTNope.  It is a requirement for regulated areas, not 
so for unregulated areas.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:53 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

There's a UPS included in the parts list for PON setup.  Not included on AE?


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/12/2018 2:50:00 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  $100/house for AE

  You pay for the splitters that fit the cabinet and cross box.  Some cost more 
than others depending on the sheet metal.  

  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:44 PM
  To: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Chuck,

  What would you house total be for AE?  Also $900 for 1x32 splitter, you need 
to find a better vendor.  The bare end PLC's are $14 the fancy connectorized 
ones are $40 at fs.com.  $11K for a 8 port card and $845 for a Laser, that's 
why we didn't/couldn't go with calix.
  That $120.67 should be about $40-$50.

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.MyakkaTech.com

  --

  Monday, February 12, 2018, 2:32:03 PM, you wrote:


   ONT Housing (Clam Shell) $   29.00  
  ONT $ 215.00  
  Unicam $   15.00  
  Cyber Power $   81.00  
  Cyber Install $ 110.00  
  House Sub Total $ 450.00  
  
  OLT $11K/8/32 $   42.97  
  OIM $845/32 $   38.27  
  Splitter $900/32 $   39.43  
  DLC per Sub Subtotal $ 120.67  
  
  
  Electronics/Sub Total Expense $ 570.67  


From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM
To: Chuck McCown
        Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

Dug up some of my costs on the GPON.  One port with a C+ class laser 
and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000.


So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 
per user.  Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for 
electronics.  As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better.  But, we 
are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI.  Remember we are 
debating fiber.  I have ONT's out there over 72 months old.  I'm sure Chuck has 
some at least 2 or 3 years older than that.  I don't plan on any type of major 
upgrade for several years.

But I must stress there is no right answer.  AE vs GPON.  You need to 
make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision.  Not to 
mention, you can run both.  We are setup to do AE,  We currently have 2 
customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side.

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote:


 When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in 
cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor 
cabinets.  

  When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per 
customer.  
  For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing 
myself to do PON.  

  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
  To: Chuck McCown
          Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Chuck,

  PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.MyakkaTech.com

  --

  Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:


   Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect 
boxes?

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
To: Adam Moffett
        Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Adam,

There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The 
requirement
when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two 
ONTs cannot
exceed 20Km."

The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel 
down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods.

We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice 
that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 
144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be splice

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Adam Moffett
There's a UPS included in the parts list for PON setup.  Not included on 
AE?



-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/12/2018 2:50:00 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


$100/house for AE

You pay for the splitters that fit the cabinet and cross box.  Some 
cost more than others depending on the sheet metal.


From:Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:44 PM
To:Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

What would you house total be for AE?  Also $900 for 1x32 splitter, you 
need to find a better vendor.  The bare end PLC's are $14 the fancy 
connectorized ones are $40 at fs.com.  $11K for a 8 port card and $845 
for a Laser, that's why we didn't/couldn't go with calix.

That $120.67 should be about $40-$50.

--
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 2:32:03 PM, you wrote:


ONT Housing (Clam Shell)
$   29.00
ONT
$ 215.00
Unicam
$   15.00
Cyber Power
$   81.00
Cyber Install
$ 110.00
House Sub Total
$ 450.00
OLT $11K/8/32
$   42.97
OIM $845/32
$   38.27
Splitter $900/32
$   39.43
DLC per Sub Subtotal
$ 120.67
Electronics/Sub Total Expense
$ 570.67


From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

Dug up some of my costs on the GPON.  One port with a C+ class laser 
and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000.



So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 
per user.  Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for 
electronics.  As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better.  
But, we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI.  
Remember we are debating fiber.  I have ONT's out there over 72 months 
old.  I'm sure Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that.  I 
don't plan on any type of major upgrade for several years.


But I must stress there is no right answer.  AE vs GPON.  You need to 
make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision.  
Not to mention, you can run both.  We are setup to do AE,  We currently 
have 2 customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON 
side.


--
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote:


When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe 
electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and 
outdoor cabinets.


When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.
For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself 
to do PON.


From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

--
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:


Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
To: Adam Moffett
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Adam,

There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
exceed 20Km."

The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long 
stretches of roads between neighborhoods.


We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into 
the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 
count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles 
depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 
splitter to ribbons 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of 
light budget.


We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage 
per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.






--
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:


Maybe I need to review the math.

I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I didn't 
compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every 
fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.



-- Original Message --
From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com>
To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Adam,

How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on 

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Chuck McCown
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT$100/house for AE

You pay for the splitters that fit the cabinet and cross box.  Some cost more 
than others depending on the sheet metal.  

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:44 PM
To: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

What would you house total be for AE?  Also $900 for 1x32 splitter, you need to 
find a better vendor.  The bare end PLC's are $14 the fancy connectorized ones 
are $40 at fs.com.  $11K for a 8 port card and $845 for a Laser, that's why we 
didn't/couldn't go with calix.
That $120.67 should be about $40-$50.

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 2:32:03 PM, you wrote:


 ONT Housing (Clam Shell) $   29.00  
ONT $ 215.00  
Unicam $   15.00  
Cyber Power $   81.00  
Cyber Install $ 110.00  
House Sub Total $ 450.00  

OLT $11K/8/32 $   42.97  
OIM $845/32 $   38.27  
Splitter $900/32 $   39.43  
DLC per Sub Subtotal $ 120.67  


Electronics/Sub Total Expense $ 570.67  


  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM
  To: Chuck McCown
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Chuck,

  Dug up some of my costs on the GPON.  One port with a C+ class laser and 
a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000.


  So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per 
user.  Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for electronics. 
 As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better.  But, we are only 
talking a different in a few months on the ROI.  Remember we are debating 
fiber.  I have ONT's out there over 72 months old.  I'm sure Chuck has some at 
least 2 or 3 years older than that.  I don't plan on any type of major upgrade 
for several years.

  But I must stress there is no right answer.  AE vs GPON.  You need to 
make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision.  Not to 
mention, you can run both.  We are setup to do AE,  We currently have 2 
customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side.

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.MyakkaTech.com

  --

  Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote:


   When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in 
cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor 
cabinets.  

When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per 
customer.  
For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing 
myself to do PON.  

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:


 Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect 
boxes?

  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
  To: Adam Moffett
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Adam,

  There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The 
requirement
  when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs 
cannot
  exceed 20Km."

  The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel 
down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods.

  We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice 
that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 
144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles 
depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to 
ribbons 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.  

  We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize 
max usage per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.





  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.Myak

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Mark - Myakka Technologies
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Chuck,

What would you house total be for AE?  Also $900 for 1x32 splitter, you need to find a better vendor.  The bare end PLC's are $14 the fancy connectorized ones are $40 at fs.com.  $11K for a 8 port card and $845 for a Laser, that's why we didn't/couldn't go with calix.
That $120.67 should be about $40-$50.

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 2:32:03 PM, you wrote:







ONT Housing (Clam Shell)

 $           29.00 


ONT

 $         215.00 


Unicam

 $           15.00 


Cyber Power

 $           81.00 


Cyber Install

 $         110.00 


House Sub Total

 $         450.00 


 

 


OLT $11K/8/32

 $           42.97 


OIM $845/32

 $           38.27 


Splitter $900/32

 $           39.43 


DLC per Sub Subtotal

 $         120.67 


 

 


 

 


Electronics/Sub Total Expense

 $         570.67 


 
 
From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
 
Chuck,

Dug up some of my costs on the GPON.  One port with a C+ class laser and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000.


So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per user.  Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for electronics.  As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better.  But, we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI.  Remember we are debating fiber.  I have ONT's out there over 72 months old.  I'm sure Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that.  I don't plan on any type of major upgrade for several years.

But I must stress there is no right answer.  AE vs GPON.  You need to make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision.  Not to mention, you can run both.  We are setup to do AE,  We currently have 2 customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote:





When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets.  

When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.  
For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON.  

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:





Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
To: Adam Moffett
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Adam,

There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
exceed 20Km."

The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods.

We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.  

We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.





-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:





Maybe I need to review the math.

I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.


-- Original Message --
From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com>
To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT





Adam,

How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split.  Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:





I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down th

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread fiberrun
It's trivial to convert a homerun active Ethernet network into a PON network. 

Not so the other way. 

Jared
 
 

Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 
From: "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

That's also a compelling point.
 
It's not a simple question for sure.  
 
The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted to 
purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY will prefer. 
 They'll probably prefer PON. 
 
Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a bias 
towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind too.
 
 
-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com[mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com]>
To: af@afmug.com[mailto:af@afmug.com]
Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
 

When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe 
electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor 
cabinets. 
 
When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. 
For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do 
PON. 

 

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
 
Chuck,

PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

--
Best regards,
Mark    mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com[http://www.MyakkaTech.com]

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:
 
 Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
To: Adam Moffett
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Adam,

There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
exceed 20Km."

The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches 
of roads between neighborhoods.

We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 
3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, 
ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending on density or 
distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12.  We just 
keep doing this until we run out of light budget. 

We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per 
port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.





--
Best regards,
Mark    mailto:m...@mailmt.com[mailto:m...@mailmt.com]

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com[http://www.MyakkaTech.com]

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:
 
 Maybe I need to review the math.

I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I didn't compare to 
a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the 
cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.


-- Original Message --
From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com[mailto:m...@mailmt.com]>
To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com[mailto:af@afmug.com]>
Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
 
 Adam,

How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split.  Are 
you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?

--
Best regards,
Mark    mailto:m...@mailmt.com[mailto:m...@mailmt.com]

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com[http://www.MyakkaTech.com]

--

Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:
 
 I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm looking at 
hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the 
road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting 
too low on db to keep going down the road.  At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 
port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch.

Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers just aren't seeming 
to work out for me.

I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some 
day if I want to.

We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of 
growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 
100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never" have to do that as far as I 
can imagine, but my imagination could be limited.

-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com[mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com]>
To: af@afmug.com[mailto:af@afmug.com]
Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
 
 A few reasons...

Port cost is still fairly high.

More splicing.

More fiber required.

Larger chassis required.

More power required.

More battery backup require

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Chuck McCown
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTONT Housing (Clam Shell)  $   29.00  
  ONT  $ 215.00  
  Unicam  $   15.00  
  Cyber Power  $   81.00  
  Cyber Install  $ 110.00  
  House Sub Total  $ 450.00  
  
  OLT $11K/8/32  $   42.97  
  OIM $845/32  $   38.27  
  Splitter $900/32  $   39.43  
  DLC per Sub Subtotal  $ 120.67  
  
  
  Electronics/Sub Total Expense  $ 570.67  



From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM
To: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

Dug up some of my costs on the GPON.  One port with a C+ class laser and a 1x32 
splitter cost me about $1000.


So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per user. 
 Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for electronics.  As I 
increase my utilization, the numbers get better.  But, we are only talking a 
different in a few months on the ROI.  Remember we are debating fiber.  I have 
ONT's out there over 72 months old.  I'm sure Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 
years older than that.  I don't plan on any type of major upgrade for several 
years.

But I must stress there is no right answer.  AE vs GPON.  You need to make sure 
you fully understand both options before making a decision.  Not to mention, 
you can run both.  We are setup to do AE,  We currently have 2 customers on the 
AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side.

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote:


 When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe 
electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor 
cabinets.  

  When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.  
  For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself 
to do PON.  

  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
  To: Chuck McCown
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Chuck,

  PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.MyakkaTech.com

  --

  Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:


   Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
To: Adam Moffett
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Adam,

There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The 
requirement
when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
exceed 20Km."

The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long 
stretches of roads between neighborhoods.

We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that 
into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 
count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending 
on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 
10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.  

We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max 
usage per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.





-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:


 Maybe I need to review the math.

  I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I 
didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every 
fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com>
  To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
  Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
          Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


   Adam,

How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles 
on a 1x32 split.  Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

S

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Mark - Myakka Technologies
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Chuck,

Dug up some of my costs on the GPON.  One port with a C+ class laser and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000.


So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per user.  Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for electronics.  As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better.  But, we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI.  Remember we are debating fiber.  I have ONT's out there over 72 months old.  I'm sure Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that.  I don't plan on any type of major upgrade for several years.

But I must stress there is no right answer.  AE vs GPON.  You need to make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision.  Not to mention, you can run both.  We are setup to do AE,  We currently have 2 customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side.

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote:





When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets.  
 
When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.  
For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON.  
 
From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
To: Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
 
Chuck,

PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:





Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
To: Adam Moffett
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Adam,

There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
exceed 20Km."

The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods.

We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.  

We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.





-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:





Maybe I need to review the math.

I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.


-- Original Message --
From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com>
To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT





Adam,

How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split.  Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:





I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road.  At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch.

Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me.

I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to.

We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited.

-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT





A few reasons...

Port cost is still fairly high.

More splicing.

More fiber required.

Larger chassis required.

More power required.

More battery backup required.

Consumers not even 

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Mark - Myakka Technologies
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Adam,


https://www.fs.com/products/11528.html

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:37:09 PM, you wrote:






Can you get a splitter with just bare pigtails?


-- Original Message --
From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com>
To: "Chuck McCown" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/12/2018 1:09:50 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT





Chuck,

PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:





Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
To: Adam Moffett
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Adam,

There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
exceed 20Km."

The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods.

We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.  

We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.





-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:





Maybe I need to review the math.

I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.


-- Original Message --
From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com>
To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT





Adam,

How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split.  Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:





I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road.  At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch.

Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me.

I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to.

We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited.

-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT





A few reasons...

Port cost is still fairly high.

More splicing.

More fiber required.

Larger chassis required.

More power required.

More battery backup required.

Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity in most places.

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:




So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days?

From: Chuck Hogg
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with Zhone is different.

Regards,
Chuck

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:




I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN...  or maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember which.  ;-)



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP




From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not goin

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Adam Moffett

Can you get a splitter with just bare pigtails?


-- Original Message --
From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com>
To: "Chuck McCown" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/12/2018 1:09:50 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Chuck,

PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

--
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:


Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
To: Adam Moffett
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Adam,

There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
exceed 20Km."

The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long 
stretches of roads between neighborhoods.


We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into 
the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 
count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles 
depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 
splitter to ribbons 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of 
light budget.


We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage 
per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.






--
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:


Maybe I need to review the math.

I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I didn't 
compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every 
fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.



-- Original Message --
From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com>
To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Adam,

How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. 
 Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?


--
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:


I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm 
looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I 
run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 
5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the 
road.  At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 
1U switch.


Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers just aren't 
seeming to work out for me.


I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to 
PON some day if I want to.


We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 
years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". 
In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never" have 
to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be 
limited.


-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


A few reasons...

Port cost is still fairly high.

More splicing.

More fiber required.

Larger chassis required.

More power required.

More battery backup required.

Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON 
capacity in most places.


On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days?

From: Chuck Hogg
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with 
Zhone is different.


Regards,
Chuck

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN...  or maybe it was DASAN 
that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't 
remember which.  ;-)




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>

Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>

The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>





From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be 
anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other 
suggestions?


I f

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Chuck McCown
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTI do Calix GPON with mostly other people’s money and 
if the USF is supporting it.

If I have my own skin in the game, I think AE is the way to go.  

When selling if the fiber is good and the customers are a revenue stream, I 
hope that is enough.


From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:23 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

That's also a compelling point.

It's not a simple question for sure.  

The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted to 
purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY will prefer. 
 They'll probably prefer PON. 

Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a bias 
towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind too.


-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe 
electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and outdoor 
cabinets.  

  When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.  
  For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do 
PON.  

  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
  To: Chuck McCown 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Chuck,

  PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.MyakkaTech.com

  --

  Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:


   Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
To: Adam Moffett
        Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Adam,

There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
exceed 20Km."

The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long 
stretches of roads between neighborhoods.

We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into 
the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 count 
cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending on 
density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12.  
We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.  

We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage 
per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.





-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:


 Maybe I need to review the math.

  I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I 
didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every 
fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com>
  To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
          Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


   Adam,

How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 
1x32 split.  Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:


 I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per 
mile).  As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that 
if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 
times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road.  At 5 or 
so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch.

  Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The 
numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me.

  I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I 
can still switch to PON some day if I want to.

  We would never max out the PON port, but looking back 
on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say 
"never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never"

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Adam Moffett

That's also a compelling point.

It's not a simple question for sure.

The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company 
wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what 
THEY will prefer.  They'll probably prefer PON.


Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a 
bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.  I try to bear that in mind 
too.



-- Original Message --
From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe 
electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but fiber and 
outdoor cabinets.


When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.
For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself 
to do PON.


From:Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
To:Chuck McCown
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

--
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:


Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
To: Adam Moffett
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Adam,

There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
exceed 20Km."

The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long 
stretches of roads between neighborhoods.


We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into 
the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 
count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles 
depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 
splitter to ribbons 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of 
light budget.


We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage 
per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.






--
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:


Maybe I need to review the math.

I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I didn't 
compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every 
fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.



-- Original Message --
From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com>
To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Adam,

How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. 
 Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?


--
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:


I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm 
looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I 
run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 
5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the 
road.  At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 
1U switch.


Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers just aren't 
seeming to work out for me.


I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to 
PON some day if I want to.


We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 
years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". 
In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never" have 
to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be 
limited.


-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


A few reasons...

Port cost is still fairly high.

More splicing.

More fiber required.

Larger chassis required.

More power required.

More battery backup required.

Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON 
capacity in most places.


On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days?

From: Chuck Hogg
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with 
Zhone is different.


Regards,
Chuck

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Chuck McCown
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTWhen doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about 
$570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc.  Everything but 
fiber and outdoor cabinets.  

When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer.  
For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do 
PON.  

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM
To: Chuck McCown 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Chuck,

PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:


 Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?

  From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
  Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
  To: Adam Moffett
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Adam,

  There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
  when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
  exceed 20Km."

  The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long 
stretches of roads between neighborhoods.

  We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the 
last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 count 
cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending on 
density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12.  
We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.  

  We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage 
per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.





  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.MyakkaTech.com

  --

  Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:


   Maybe I need to review the math.

I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I 
didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every 
fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.


-- Original Message --
From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com>
To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
        Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


 Adam,

  How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 
1x32 split.  Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.MyakkaTech.com

  --

  Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:


   I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). 
 As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I 
run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times 
and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road.  At 5 or so 
houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch.

Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The 
numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me.

I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can 
still switch to PON some day if I want to.

We would never max out the PON port, but looking back 
on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say 
"never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never" have 
to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited.

-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
            Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


 A few reasons...

  Port cost is still fairly high.

  More splicing.

  More fiber required.

  Larger chassis required.

  More power required.

  More battery backup required.

  Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 
generations back of PON capacity in most places.

  On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown 
<ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

 So, why do PON and not active 

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Mark - Myakka Technologies
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Chuck,

Don't forget about Claas C+ lasers

In terms of OLT Module, the sending power of Class B+ is 1.5~5dBm, and its receiver sensitivity is -28dBm while the sending power of Class C+ is 3~7dBm and receiver sensitivity -32dBm.

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:08:13 PM, you wrote:






As I recall, originally the GPON spec had a 12.5 mile limit due to timing, not due to signal strength.
If you launch at -0 dBm and need –24 dBm that is a 24 dB margin.
 
32:1 splitters have 16 dB loss.  That leaves you with 8 dB for cable, connector and splice loss.
.5 dB per km for 1310, that gives you 16 kM or 10 miles.  I may be off on a few numbers here, but as I recall it worked out to take 32 out the full 12.5 miles without running out of light irrespective of where you placed the splitters.  
 
From: Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:38 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
 
Maybe I need to review the math.
 
I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.
 
 
-- Original Message --
From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com>
To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
 




Adam,

How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split.  Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:





I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road.  At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch.

Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me.

I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to.

We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited.

-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT





A few reasons...

Port cost is still fairly high.

More splicing.

More fiber required.

Larger chassis required.

More power required.

More battery backup required.

Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity in most places.

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:




So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days?

From: Chuck Hogg
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with Zhone is different.

Regards,
Chuck

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:




I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN...  or maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember which.  ;-)



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP




From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? 

I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID="">

It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them:
http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf

-Jason





















Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Mark - Myakka Technologies
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Chuck,

PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing.

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:





Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes?
 
From: Mark - Myakka Technologies
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
To: Adam Moffett
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
 
Adam,

There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
exceed 20Km."

The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods.

We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.  

We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.





-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:





Maybe I need to review the math.

I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.


-- Original Message --
From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com>
To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT





Adam,

How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split.  Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:





I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road.  At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch.

Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me.

I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to.

We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited.

-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT





A few reasons...

Port cost is still fairly high.

More splicing.

More fiber required.

Larger chassis required.

More power required.

More battery backup required.

Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity in most places.

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:




So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days?

From: Chuck Hogg
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with Zhone is different.

Regards,
Chuck

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:




I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN...  or maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember which.  ;-)



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP




From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? 

I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID="">

It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them:
http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf

-Jason
























Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Adam Moffett

I seeenlightening.



-- Original Message --
From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com>
To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/12/2018 11:55:03 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Adam,

There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
exceed 20Km."

The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long 
stretches of roads between neighborhoods.


We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into 
the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 
count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles 
depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 
splitter to ribbons 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of 
light budget.


We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage 
per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.






--
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:


Maybe I need to review the math.

I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I didn't 
compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every 
fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.



-- Original Message --
From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com>
To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Adam,

How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. 
 Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?


--
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:


I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm 
looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I 
run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 
5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the 
road.  At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 
1U switch.


Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers just aren't 
seeming to work out for me.


I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to 
PON some day if I want to.


We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 
years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". 
In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never" have 
to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be 
limited.


-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


A few reasons...

Port cost is still fairly high.

More splicing.

More fiber required.

Larger chassis required.

More power required.

More battery backup required.

Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON 
capacity in most places.


On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days?

From: Chuck Hogg
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with 
Zhone is different.


Regards,
Chuck

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN...  or maybe it was DASAN 
that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't 
remember which.  ;-)




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>

Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>

The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>





From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be 
anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other 
suggestions?


I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116

It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them:
http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf

-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Chuck McCown
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTAre you using splitters in splice cases or in cross 
connect boxes?

From: Mark - Myakka Technologies 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM
To: Adam Moffett 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Adam,

There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
exceed 20Km."

The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches 
of roads between neighborhoods.

We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 
3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, 
ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending on density or 
distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12.  We just 
keep doing this until we run out of light budget.  

We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per 
port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.





-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:


 Maybe I need to review the math.

  I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I didn't 
compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber 
back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com>
  To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
  Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


   Adam,

How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 
split.  Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?

-- 
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:


 I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As 
I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run 
the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and 
then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road.  At 5 or so houses 
per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch.

  Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers 
just aren't seeming to work out for me.

  I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still 
switch to PON some day if I want to.

  We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the 
past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". 
In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never" have to do 
that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited.

  -Adam


  -- Original Message --
  From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
          Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


   A few reasons...

Port cost is still fairly high.

More splicing.

More fiber required.

Larger chassis required.

More power required.

More battery backup required.

Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations 
back of PON capacity in most places.

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown 
<ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

 So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap 
optics days?

  From: Chuck Hogg
  Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM
                      To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  We are walking away from them and Alphion...I 
think Mark's product with Zhone is different.

  Regards,
  Chuck

  On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett 
<af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

 I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from 
DASAN...  or maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far 
away form. I don't remember which.  ;-)



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

  

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Chuck McCown
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTAs I recall, originally the GPON spec had a 12.5 
mile limit due to timing, not due to signal strength.
If you launch at -0 dBm and need –24 dBm that is a 24 dB margin.

32:1 splitters have 16 dB loss.  That leaves you with 8 dB for cable, connector 
and splice loss.
.5 dB per km for 1310, that gives you 16 kM or 10 miles.  I may be off on a few 
numbers here, but as I recall it worked out to take 32 out the full 12.5 miles 
without running out of light irrespective of where you placed the splitters.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:38 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

Maybe I need to review the math.

I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I didn't compare to 
a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the 
cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.


-- Original Message --
From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com>
To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  Adam,

  How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split.  Are 
you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?

  -- 
  Best regards,
  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

  Myakka Technologies, Inc.
  www.MyakkaTech.com

  --

  Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:


   I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm looking 
at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down 
the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm 
getting too low on db to keep going down the road.  At 5 or so houses per port, 
a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch.

Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers just aren't 
seeming to work out for me.

I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to 
PON some day if I want to.

We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 
years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I 
can put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never" have to do that as 
far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited.

-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
        Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


 A few reasons...

  Port cost is still fairly high.

  More splicing.

  More fiber required.

  Larger chassis required.

  More power required.

  More battery backup required.

  Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON 
capacity in most places.

  On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> 
wrote:

   So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics 
days?

From: Chuck Hogg
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM
                To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's 
product with Zhone is different.

Regards,
Chuck

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett 
<af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

 I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN...  or 
maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I 
don't remember which.  ;-)



  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP





--
  From: "Jason McKemie" 
<j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM
  Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

  In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not 
going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other 
suggestions? 

  I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
  http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116

  It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at 
least heard of them:
  
http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf

  -Jason
 
   
 
   


Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Mark - Myakka Technologies
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Adam,

There are some ranging things you have to consider.  "The requirement
when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot
exceed 20Km."

The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods.

We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber.  Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into.  After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12.  We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget.  

We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port.  Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports.





-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:






Maybe I need to review the math.

I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.


-- Original Message --
From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com>
To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT





Adam,

How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split.  Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:





I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road.  At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch.

Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me.

I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to.

We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited.

-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT





A few reasons...

Port cost is still fairly high.

More splicing.

More fiber required.

Larger chassis required.

More power required.

More battery backup required.

Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity in most places.

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:




So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days?

From: Chuck Hogg
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with Zhone is different.

Regards,
Chuck

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:




I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN...  or maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember which.  ;-)



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP




From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? 

I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID="">

It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them:
http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf

-Jason





















Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Adam Moffett

Maybe I need to review the math.

I was figuring on several small splitters along the route.  I didn't 
compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every 
fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet.



-- Original Message --
From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com>
To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Adam,

How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. 
 Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?


--
Best regards,
Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:


I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm 
looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I 
run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 
5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the 
road.  At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 
1U switch.


Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers just aren't 
seeming to work out for me.


I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to 
PON some day if I want to.


We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 
years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". 
In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never" have 
to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be 
limited.


-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


A few reasons...

Port cost is still fairly high.

More splicing.

More fiber required.

Larger chassis required.

More power required.

More battery backup required.

Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON 
capacity in most places.


On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days?

From: Chuck Hogg
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with 
Zhone is different.


Regards,
Chuck

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN...  or maybe it was DASAN 
that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't 
remember which.  ;-)




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>

Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>

The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>





From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be 
anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other 
suggestions?


I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116

It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them:
http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf

-Jason

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Mark - Myakka Technologies
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Adam,

How far are you going?  We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split.  Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters?

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:






I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road.  At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch.

Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me.

I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to.

We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited.

-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT





A few reasons...

Port cost is still fairly high.

More splicing.

More fiber required.

Larger chassis required.

More power required.

More battery backup required.

Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity in most places.

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:




So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days?
 
From: Chuck Hogg
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
 
We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with Zhone is different.
 
Regards,
Chuck
 
On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:




I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN...  or maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember which.  ;-)



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP




From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? 
 
I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID="">
 
It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them:
http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf
 
-Jason
 


 












Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-12 Thread Adam Moffett
Very true.  It would make no sense at all with private funding.  ROI in 
25+ years, and nobody would invest in that when better returns are 
available.  We're getting a grant from NY State.



-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/11/2018 11:59:17 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

If you're looking to do a few houses per mile, it's very likely that 
fiber doesn't make sense at all.


On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 9:24 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> 
wrote:
I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm 
looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I 
run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 
5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the 
road.  At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than 
a 1U switch.


Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers just aren't 
seeming to work out for me.


I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to 
PON some day if I want to.


We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 
years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". 
In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never" have 
to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be 
limited.


-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


A few reasons...

Port cost is still fairly high.

More splicing.

More fiber required.

Larger chassis required.

More power required.

More battery backup required.

Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON 
capacity in most places.


On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> 
wrote:

So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days?

From:Chuck Hogg
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product 
with Zhone is different.


Regards,
Chuck

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> 
wrote:
I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN...  or maybe it was 
DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I 
don't remember which.  ;-)




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>

Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>

The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be 
anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other 
suggestions?


I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 
<http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116>


It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of 
them:
http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf 
<http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf>


-Jason







Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-11 Thread Josh Reynolds
If you're looking to do a few houses per mile, it's very likely that fiber
doesn't make sense at all.

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 9:24 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm looking
> at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line
> down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then
> I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road.  At 5 or so houses
> per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch.
>
> Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers just aren't
> seeming to work out for me.
>
> I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON
> some day if I want to.
>
> We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years
> of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can
> put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never" have to do that as
> far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited.
>
> -Adam
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
> To: af@afmug.com
> Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> A few reasons...
>
> Port cost is still fairly high.
>
> More splicing.
>
> More fiber required.
>
> Larger chassis required.
>
> More power required.
>
> More battery backup required.
>
> Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity
> in most places.
>
> On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>
>> So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days?
>>
>> *From:* Chuck Hogg
>> *Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with
>> Zhone is different.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Chuck
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN...  or maybe it was DASAN
>>> that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember
>>> which.  ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM
>>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>>
>>> In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be
>>> anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions?
>>>
>>> I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
>>> http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116
>>>
>>> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them:
>>> http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf
>>>
>>> -Jason
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>


Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-11 Thread George Skorup
+1hunnit. AE for very low density makes sense. The same argument can be 
made for wireless. If you have one house on a 1 mile road, does it even 
make sense to do fiber for that one customer? And then multiply that by 
something like 5 or even 10 miles. Bring fiber to a customer and shoot a 
PTP to the house at the end of the road? Or give the customer the option 
to pay for their extra long drop?


PON makes sense when you want all (or most) of the PON features for 
things like single pane of glass monitoring and such. OTOH, there's no 
reason you can't do AE on something like a Calix shelf and get most of 
that stuff.


On 2/11/2018 9:24 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm 
looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I 
run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 
5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the 
road.  At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than 
a 1U switch.


Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers just aren't 
seeming to work out for me.


I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to 
PON some day if I want to.


We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 
years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". 
In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never" have 
to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited.


-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com <mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>>
To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com>
Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


A few reasons...

Port cost is still fairly high.

More splicing.

More fiber required.

Larger chassis required.

More power required.

More battery backup required.

Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON 
capacity in most places.


On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com 
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:


So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days?
*From:* Chuck Hogg
*Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM
    *To:* af@afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's
product with Zhone is different.
Regards,
Chuck
On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net>
wrote:

I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN...  or maybe it
was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away
form. I don't remember which.  ;-)



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>

<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

*From: *"Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
*To: *af@afmug.com
*Sent: *Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to
be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any
other suggestions?
I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116
<http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116>
It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard
of them:
http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf
<http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf>
-Jason






Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-11 Thread Adam Moffett
I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile).  As I'm looking 
at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the 
line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times 
and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road.  At 5 or 
so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch.


Your stated reasons for PON are all correct.  The numbers just aren't 
seeming to work out for me.


I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to 
PON some day if I want to.


We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 
years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In 
AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to.  I'll "never" have to 
do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited.


-Adam


-- Original Message --
From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


A few reasons...

Port cost is still fairly high.

More splicing.

More fiber required.

Larger chassis required.

More power required.

More battery backup required.

Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON 
capacity in most places.


On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days?

From:Chuck Hogg
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM
To:af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product 
with Zhone is different.


Regards,
Chuck

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> 
wrote:
I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN...  or maybe it was 
DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I 
don't remember which.  ;-)




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> 
<https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> 
<https://twitter.com/ICSIL>

Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> 
<https://twitter.com/mdwestix>

The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>

From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be 
anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other 
suggestions?


I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 
<http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116>


It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them:
http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf 
<http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf>


-Jason





Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-11 Thread Josh Reynolds
A few reasons...

Port cost is still fairly high.

More splicing.

More fiber required.

Larger chassis required.

More power required.

More battery backup required.

Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity
in most places.

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

> So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days?
>
> *From:* Chuck Hogg
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with
> Zhone is different.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
>> I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN...  or maybe it was DASAN
>> that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember
>> which.  ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>>
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> --
>> *From: *"Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM
>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere
>> near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions?
>>
>> I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
>> http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116
>>
>> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them:
>> http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf
>>
>> -Jason
>>
>>
>
>


Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-11 Thread Chuck McCown
So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days?

From: Chuck Hogg 
Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with Zhone 
is different.

Regards,
Chuck

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote:

  I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN...  or maybe it was DASAN that 
rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember which.  
;-)




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>
  To: af@afmug.com
  Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM
  Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


  In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere 
near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? 

  I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
  http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116


  It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them:
  http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf


  -Jason



Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-11 Thread Josh Reynolds
Why are you walking away from Alphion? I'm curious because we had our own
issues.

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:10 PM, Chuck Hogg  wrote:

> We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with
> Zhone is different.
>
> Regards,
> Chuck
>
> On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN...  or maybe it was DASAN
>> that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember
>> which.  ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Jason McKemie" 
>> *To: *af@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM
>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>>
>> In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere
>> near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions?
>>
>> I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
>> http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116
>>
>> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them:
>> http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf
>>
>> -Jason
>>
>>
>


Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-11 Thread Chuck Hogg
We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with
Zhone is different.

Regards,
Chuck

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN...  or maybe it was DASAN
> that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember
> which.  ;-)
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Jason McKemie" 
> *To: *af@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
>
> In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere
> near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions?
>
> I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
> http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116
>
> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them:
> http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf
>
> -Jason
>
>


Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-11 Thread Mike Hammett
They may be the same company, but surely they haven't merged the lines already. 
Of course there's always legacy stuff too. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> 
To: "Jason McKemie" <af@afmug.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 10:16:36 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT 

Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Jason, 

Dasan and Zhone are the same. There was a merger/take over last year. If you 
are just looking for outdoor ONT's, the 42xx GPON is what you want. Comes in 
many different flavors. 
http://dasanzhone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/GPON-Outdoor-ONT-Products-1.pdf
 

-- 
Best regards, 
Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com 

Myakka Technologies, Inc. 
www.MyakkaTech.com 

-- 

Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 9:45:24 PM, you wrote: 


It looked like it has options for coax/fiber hybrid, but their use-case 
diagram shows a straight fiber setup as well. I do not have any coax either. 
One of my providers distributes Zhone, not sure if that means they have Dasan 
as well... 

Thanks again. 

On Tuesday, February 6, 2018, Mark - Myakka Technologies < m...@mailmt.com > 
wrote: 

Jason, 

No, we use the 42xx outdoor and the 24xx indoor GPON units. That looks like a 
fiber/coax hybird. We are strictly 100% fiber. I will have to check with our 
purchasing guy to see where we are currently getting our units from. 

-- 
Best regards, 
Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com 

Myakka Technologies, Inc. 
www.MyakkaTech.com 

-- 

Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 6:48:29 PM, you wrote: 


Mark - 

Do you have any experience with the outdoor OLT I linked to? Who are you buying 
from? 

Thanks. 


On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 4:50 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies < m...@mailmt.com > 
wrote: 

Jason, 

We have about 2500 of the DASAN/Zhone onts deployed. A mix of indoor and 
outdoor. Been using them for at least 6 years. Let me know if you have any 
questions. 

-- 
Best regards, 
Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com 

Myakka Technologies, Inc. 
www.MyakkaTech.com 

-- 


Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 5:35:54 PM, you wrote: 


In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be 
anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? 

I found these guys, but have never heard of them: 
http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 

It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: 
http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf 

-Jason 


Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-11 Thread Mike Hammett
I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was DASAN that 
rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember which. 
;-) 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Jason McKemie"  
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT 


In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near 
within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? 


I found these guys, but have never heard of them: 
http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 



It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: 
http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf 



-Jason 


Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-06 Thread Mark - Myakka Technologies
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Jason,

Dasan and Zhone are the same.  There was a merger/take over last year.  If you are just looking for outdoor ONT's, the 42xx GPON is what you want.  Comes in many different flavors.
http://dasanzhone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/GPON-Outdoor-ONT-Products-1.pdf

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 9:45:24 PM, you wrote:





It looked like it has options for coax/fiber hybrid, but their use-case diagram shows a straight fiber setup as well. I do not have any coax either. One of my providers distributes Zhone, not sure if that means they have Dasan as well...

Thanks again.

On Tuesday, February 6, 2018, Mark - Myakka Technologies <m...@mailmt.com> wrote:




Jason,

No, we use the 42xx outdoor and the 24xx indoor GPON units.  That looks like a fiber/coax hybird.  We are strictly 100% fiber.  I will have to check with our purchasing guy to see where we are currently getting our units from.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 6:48:29 PM, you wrote:





Mark -

Do you have any experience with the outdoor OLT I linked to?  Who are you buying from?

Thanks.


On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 4:50 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies <m...@mailmt.com> wrote:




Jason,

We have about 2500 of the DASAN/Zhone onts deployed.  A mix of indoor and outdoor.  Been using them for at least 6 years.  Let me know if you have any questions.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--


Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 5:35:54 PM, you wrote:





In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions?

I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID="">

It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them:
http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf

-Jason


















Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-06 Thread Jason McKemie
It looked like it has options for coax/fiber hybrid, but their use-case
diagram shows a straight fiber setup as well. I do not have any coax
either. One of my providers distributes Zhone, not sure if that means they
have Dasan as well...

Thanks again.

On Tuesday, February 6, 2018, Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> Jason,
>
> No, we use the 42xx outdoor and the 24xx indoor GPON units.  That looks
> like a fiber/coax hybird.  We are strictly 100% fiber.  I will have to
> check with our purchasing guy to see where we are currently getting our
> units from.
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards, Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
> 
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *-- Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 6:48:29 PM, you wrote: *
>
> Mark -
>
> Do you have any experience with the outdoor OLT I linked to?  Who are you
> buying from?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 4:50 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies <
> m...@mailmt.com> wrote:
>
> Jason,
>
> We have about 2500 of the DASAN/Zhone onts deployed.  A mix of indoor and
> outdoor.  Been using them for at least 6 years.  Let me know if you have
> any questions.
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards, Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
> 
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *-- Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 5:35:54 PM, you wrote: *
>
> In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere
> near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions?
>
> I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
> http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116
>
> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them:
> http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf
>
> -Jason
>


Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-06 Thread Mark - Myakka Technologies
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Jason,

No, we use the 42xx outdoor and the 24xx indoor GPON units.  That looks like a fiber/coax hybird.  We are strictly 100% fiber.  I will have to check with our purchasing guy to see where we are currently getting our units from.

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 6:48:29 PM, you wrote:





Mark -

Do you have any experience with the outdoor OLT I linked to?  Who are you buying from?

Thanks.


On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 4:50 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies <m...@mailmt.com> wrote:




Jason,

We have about 2500 of the DASAN/Zhone onts deployed.  A mix of indoor and outdoor.  Been using them for at least 6 years.  Let me know if you have any questions.

-- 
Best regards,
Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--


Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 5:35:54 PM, you wrote:





In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions?

I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID="">

It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them:
http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf

-Jason












Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-06 Thread Jason McKemie
Mark -

Do you have any experience with the outdoor OLT I linked to?  Who are you
buying from?

Thanks.


On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 4:50 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies 
wrote:

> Jason,
>
> We have about 2500 of the DASAN/Zhone onts deployed.  A mix of indoor and
> outdoor.  Been using them for at least 6 years.  Let me know if you have
> any questions.
>
>
>
> *-- Best regards, Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com
> 
>
>
> *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *-- Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 5:35:54 PM, you wrote: *
>
> In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere
> near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions?
>
> I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
> http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116
>
> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them:
> http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf
>
> -Jason
>


Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT

2018-02-06 Thread Mark - Myakka Technologies
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT


Jason,

We have about 2500 of the DASAN/Zhone onts deployed.  A mix of indoor and outdoor.  Been using them for at least 6 years.  Let me know if you have any questions.

-- 
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.MyakkaTech.com

--

Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 5:35:54 PM, you wrote:





In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions?

I found these guys, but have never heard of them:
http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID="">

It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them:
http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf

-Jason