Re: Re: RE: [agi] Natural versus formal AI interface languages

2006-11-08 Thread Ben Goertzel
Eric wrote: The challenge is to find a methodology for producing fast enough and frugal enough code, where that methodology is practicable. For example, as a rough upper bound, it would be practicable if it required 10,000 programmer years and 1,000,000 PC-years (i.e a $3Bn budget). (Why should

Re: Re: RE: [agi] Natural versus formal AI interface languages

2006-11-08 Thread Matt Mahoney
Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am afraid that it may not be possible to find an initial project that is both * small * clearly a meaningfully large step along the path to AGI * of significant practical benefit I'm afraid you're right. It is especially difficult because there is a long

Re: Re: Re: Re: [agi] Natural versus formal AI interface languages

2006-11-06 Thread James Ratcliff
Ben, I think it would be beneficial, at least to me, to see a list of tasks. Not as a "defining" measure in any way. But as a list of work items that a general AGI should be able to complete effectively. I started on a list, and pulled some information off the net before, but never completed one.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [agi] Natural versus formal AI interface languages

2006-11-06 Thread Ben Goertzel
Hi, On 11/6/06, James Ratcliff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ben, I think it would be beneficial, at least to me, to see a list of tasks. Not as a defining measure in any way. But as a list of work items that a general AGI should be able to complete effectively. I agree, and I think that this

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [agi] Natural versus formal AI interface languages

2006-11-06 Thread James Ratcliff
Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi,On 11/6/06, James Ratcliff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Ben, I think it would be beneficial, at least to me, to see a list of tasks. Not as a "defining" measure in any way. But as a list of work items that a general AGI should be able to complete

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: [agi] Natural versus formal AI interface languages

2006-11-06 Thread Ben Goertzel
How much of the Novamente system is meant to be autonomous, and how much will be responding only from external stymulus such as a question or a task given externally. Is it intended after awhile to run on its own where it would be up 24 hours a day, exploring potentially some by itself, or more

Re: Re: Re: [agi] Natural versus formal AI interface languages

2006-11-04 Thread Ben Goertzel
On 11/4/06, Russell Wallace [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 11/4/06, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I of course don't think that SHRDLU vs. AGISim is a fair comparison. Agreed. SHRDLU didn't even try to solve the real problems - for the simple and sufficient reason that it was impossible to

Re: Re: Re: [agi] Natural versus formal AI interface languages

2006-11-03 Thread Ben Goertzel
Another reason for measurements is that it makes your goals concrete. How do you define general intelligence? Turing gave us a well defined goal, but there are some shortcomings. The Turing test is subjective, time consuming, isn't appropriate for robotics, and really isn't a good goal if it

Re: Re: Re: Re: [agi] Natural versus formal AI interface languages

2006-11-03 Thread Ben Goertzel
I am happy enough with the long-term goal of independent scientific and mathematical discovery... And, in the short term, I am happy enough with the goals of carrying out the (AGISim versions of) the standard tasks used by development psychologists to study childrens' cognitive behavior... I

Re: Re: Re: [agi] Natural versus formal AI interface languages

2006-11-02 Thread Ben Goertzel
Luke wrote: It seems to be like this: when you start programming, even though the syntax is still natural, the language gets really awkward and does not resemble the way you would express the same thing naturally. For me it just shows that the real problem is somewhere deeper, in the semantic