hi,
I have a lot of parallel processes that are in control of their own activation
(they can decide which processes are activated and for how long). I need some
kind of organisation (a simple example would be a hierarchy of processes that
only activate downwards).
I'm looking for examples of
Matt Mahoney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
Dr. Matthias Heger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The interesting question is how we learn the basic nouns like ball
or cat, i.e. abstract concepts for objects of our environment.
How do we create the basic patterns?
A child sees a ball, hears the
I assume that you have checked out Hofstadters architecture mixing random
relevance (Fluid Analogies Research Group)?
Jean-Paul Van Belle
Associate Professor
Head: Postgraduate Section, Department of Information Systems
Research Associate: Centre for IT and National Development in Africa
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 11:09 AM, rooftop8000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
hi,
I have a lot of parallel processes that are in control of their own
activation (they can decide which processes are activated and for how long).
I need some kind of organisation (a simple example would be a hierarchy
- Matt Mahoney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
No. Qualia is not needed for learning because there is no physical
difference between an agent with qualia and one without. Chalmers
questioned its existence, see http://consc.net/papers/qualia.html
It is disturbing to think that qualia does not
Matthias,
Your remarks stimulated some interesting thoughts for me re concept
organisation. I agree with what you seem to be implying that every concept
must be a cluster of different POV images, and/or image schemas in the
brain.
But that cluster must have a normal organisation.
The
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 3:34 PM, Dr. Matthias Heger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think it is possible that we can BUILD AGI with qualia but as I explained
before we will never be able to EXPLAIN qualia without (hidden) self
references to the phenomenon of qualia itself.
Since we cannot
MH: Since we cannot explain qualia we can also a never answer the question
whether qualia is necessary for AGI
Well, clearly you do need emotions, continually evaluating the
worthwhileness of your current activity and its goals/ risks and costs - as
set against the other goals of your
Vladimir Nesov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
I don't currently see something mysterious in qualia: it is one of
those cases where a debate about phenomenon is much more complicated
than phenomenon itself. Just as 'free will' is just a way
self-watching control system operates, considering
Josh, thanks for this very, very interesting project, primarily because of
the great shortage in quality, large data sets for immage annotation!
1000*30.000= 30 million images: truly immense. Very valueable to the
computer vision and machine learning community! Now the datasets, computer
power are
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 4:55 PM, Dr. Matthias Heger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If we imagine a brain scanner with perfect resolution of space and time then
we get every information of the brain including the phenomenon of qualia.
But we will not be able to understand it.
This can be shown by
Von: Vladimir Nesov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
I agree that just having precise data isn't enough: in other words,
you won't automatically be able to generalize from such data to
different initial conditions and answer the queries about phenomenon
in those cases. It is a basic statement
I noticed yesterday that most of the videos of talks and panels from AGI-08
have been uploaded (http://www.agi-08.org/schedule.php). Big thanks to the
organizers for that!
I have some difficulty getting into some of the papers but the 10-ish minute
overview talks are by and large quite
rooftop8000 wrote:
hi,
I have a lot of parallel processes that are in control of their own activation (they can decide which processes are activated and for how long). I need some kind of organisation (a simple example would be a hierarchy of processes that only activate downwards).
I'm
Von: Mike Tintner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
Well, clearly you do need emotions, continually evaluating the
worthwhileness of your current activity and its goals/ risks and costs - as
set against the other goals of your psychoeconomy.
And while your and my emotions may have
Vladimir Nesov wrote:
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 11:09 AM, rooftop8000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
hi,
I have a lot of parallel processes that are in control of their own activation
(they can decide which processes are activated and for how long). I need some
kind of organisation (a simple
One other observation I forgot to mention: Several people brought up the
desirability of some kind of benchmark problem area to help compare the methods
and effectiveness of various approaches. For a bunch of reasons I think it
will be difficult to define such things in a way that researchers
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 7:16 PM, a [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think what he is referring to is top-down cognitive control processes
that can observe and select competitive bottom-up stimuli.
But it's too general to say something and expect to answer the
question. Parallel processes that
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 7:04 PM, Dr. Matthias Heger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The behavior is human like. Even the chess player Kasparov has difficulties
to decide whether
the moves of an unknown good player are from a computer or a very good human
being. So chess programs behave now like
2008/5/4 Derek Zahn [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
* Limiting people to 10-12 minutes makes it basically impossible to present
the contents of a paper, so the talks turn into project overviews. Actually
I found that to be a GOOD thing, and hope it continues that way (as long as
we don't get the same
2008/5/4 Derek Zahn [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
I have a suggestion for such a task: figuring out how to operate the
buttons-and-light system that determines whose turn it is to talk during
panel discussions. It may be too ambitious though, as clearly it requires
superhuman intelligence (har har
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 6:26 PM, Dr. Matthias Heger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Shortly:
1. Every knowledge is based on perceptions. You even learned the
fundamentals of mathematics by perceptions (eg. pictures of a set of 5
apples to introduce the number 5).
2.Every conscious perception
Matthias,
You only need emotions when you're dealing with problems that are
problematic, ill-structured, and involving potentially infinite reasoning.
(Chess qualifies as that for a human being, not for a program).
When dealing with such problems, you continually have to reevaluate your
Bob Mottram writes:
I havn't watched all of the AGI-08 videos, but of those that I have seen the
15 minute format left me non the wiser. With limited time I would have
preferred longer talks with more depth but perhaps fewer in number,
especially on the more mathematical topics. Another
@Stephen Reed and others:
I'm writing a prototype of my AGI in Lisp, with special emphasis on
the inductive learning algorithm. I'm looking for collaborators.
It seems that Texai is the closed to my AGI theory, so it would be
easier for us to jam. I wonder if Texai has already developed
--- rooftop8000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
hi,
I have a lot of parallel processes that are in control of their own
activation (they can decide which processes are activated and for how
long). I need some kind of organisation (a simple example would be a
hierarchy of processes that only
Thanks for the comments from Derek and Bob!
Here are some assumptions made when planning AGI-08:
(1) As the very first conference in the field, it should play an
important role in the forming of the community, which means to let the
researchers know each other. For this reason, it was decided to
Hi,
Somebody could write an excellent paper about the
potential pitfalls of such an approach (detail, fidelity, deep causality
issues behind appearance, function, and inter-object + inter-feature
relationships, and so on). If nobody else is working in detail on
publishing such an analysis
--- Dr. Matthias Heger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The hebb rule only explains how we associate patterns.
It does not explain completely how we create pattern.
If a child sees one ball it has many special features that are
irrelevant
for the abstract concept of ball i.e. connected matter
--- Dr. Matthias Heger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You will agree that you have unconscious perception without qualia
and conscious perception with qualia. Since you are a physical system
there must
be a physical based explanation for the difference. If you feel
different in
two situations
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 11:04 PM, Matt Mahoney [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The retina uses low level feature detection of spots, edges, and
movement to compress 137 million pixels down to 1 million optic nerve
fibers. By the time it gets through the more complex feature detectors
of the
--- Vladimir Nesov [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 11:04 PM, Matt Mahoney [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
The retina uses low level feature detection of spots, edges, and
movement to compress 137 million pixels down to 1 million optic
nerve
fibers. By the time it gets
Derek Zahn wrote:
I noticed yesterday that most of the videos of talks and panels from
AGI-08 have been uploaded (http://www.agi-08.org/schedule.php). Big
thanks to the organizers for that!
I have some difficulty getting into some of the papers but the 10-ish
minute overview talks are by
Mike Tintner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
You only need emotions when you're dealing with problems that are
problematic, ill-structured, and involving potentially infinite reasoning.
(Chess qualifies as that for a human being, not for a program).
When dealing with such problems, you
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 11:52 PM, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I saw absolutely nothing that makes me believe that a field called
Artificial General Intelligence even exists yet. To the extent that there
were any proposals concerning complete architectures, those proposals were
Matt Mahoney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Repeat the trial many times. Out of the thousands of perceptual
features present when the child hears ball, the relevant features
will reinforce and the others will cancel out.
The concept of ball that a child learns is far too complex to
manually code
Matt Mahoney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Dr. Matthias Heger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You will agree that you have unconscious perception without qualia
and conscious perception with qualia. Since you are a physical system
there must
be a physical based explanation for the difference.
Vladimir Nesov wrote:
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 11:52 PM, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I saw absolutely nothing that makes me believe that a field called
Artificial General Intelligence even exists yet. To the extent that there
were any proposals concerning complete architectures,
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:14 AM, Dr. Matthias Heger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Our goal system is hierarchical. The 3 most basic goals are:
Survive, reproduce yourself, help people who are useful for you.
If you analyze the behavior of human beings you can reduce it almost always
to one of
Richard Loosemore writes: Prompted by your enthusiastic write-up, I just
wasted one and a half hours scanning through all of the AGI-08 papers that I
downloaded previously. I have 28 of them; they did not include anything from
Stephen Reed, nor any NARS paper, so I guess my collection must
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:44 AM, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Then it is just another bandwagon, like Expert Systems, Neural
Networks, Embodied Systems ..
I have had branding up to the eyeballs.
Content is what matters.
There would be little content if nobody is
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 12:43 AM, Dr. Matthias Heger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So you explain qualia by a certain destination of perception in the brain? I
do not think that this can be all. But it will be as I have said: Some day
we can describe the whole physiological process
of qualia
--- Dr. Matthias Heger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Matt Mahoney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Repeat the trial many times. Out of the thousands of perceptual
features present when the child hears ball, the relevant features
will reinforce and the others will cancel out.
The concept of ball
--- Dr. Matthias Heger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Matt Mahoney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
The difference is that conscious perceptions are stored in episodic
memory.
So you explain qualia by a certain destination of perception in the
brain? I
do not think that this can be all. But it
- Vladimir Nesov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
:
So you explain qualia by a certain destination of perception in the
brain? I
do not think that this can be all. But it will be as I have said: Some
day
we can describe the whole physiological process
of qualia but we will never be
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 3:10 AM, Dr. Matthias Heger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In my opinion I have proven that qualia can never be explained though if we
have better brain scanner then qualia can be described by physical
processes. But I think I have shown that it must be processes which we
Derek Zahn wrote:
Richard Loosemore writes:
Prompted by your enthusiastic write-up, I just wasted one and a half
hours scanning through all of the AGI-08 papers that I downloaded
previously. I have 28 of them; they did not include anything from
Stephen Reed, nor any NARS paper, so I
Mark Waser wrote:
Richard,
You're not gaining any supporters this way
Prompted by your enthusiastic write-up, I just wasted one and a half
hours scanning through all of the AGI-08 papers that I downloaded
previously. I have 28 of them; they did not include anything from
Stephen Reed,
Loosemore wrote:
I hear people enthusing about systems that are filled with holes that were
discovered decades ago, but still no fix. I read vague speculations and the
use of buzzwords ('Theory of Mind'!?). I see papers discussing narrow AI
projects.
I suppose there was all that at AGI-08
Richard wrote:
My god, Mark: I had to listen to people having a general discussion of
grounding (the supposed them of that workshop) without a single person
showing the slightest sign that they had more than an amateur's perspective
on what that concept actually means.
I guess you are
Richard Loosemore: I read Pei's paper and there was nothing horrifying about
it (please spare the sarcasm).
No sarcasm intended. If I had just come to the conclusion that 28 papers in a
row were a waste of time, I'd be horrified at the prospect of a 29th that would
also not give me what I
Richard Loosemore: My god, Mark: I had to listen to people having a general
discussion of grounding (the supposed them of that workshop) without a
single person showing the slightest sign that they had more than an amateur's
perspective on what that concept actually means.
I was not at
Von: Vladimir Nesov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote
If you can use a brain scanning device that says you experience X
when you experience X, why is it significantly different from
observing stone falling to earth with a device that observes stone
falling to earth
Because only you can know
Hi YKY,
Interesting that you should ask about Texai and reasoning / learning
algorithms. As you know, my initial approach to learning is learning by being
taught. Therefore I do not have much yet to offer with regard to machine
learning, learning by discovery and so forth.
However, I had
Hi Matt,
As perhaps you know, I want to organize Texai as a vast multitude of agents
situated in a hierarchical control system, grouped as possibly redundant,
load-sharing, agents within an agency sharing a specific mission. I have given
some thought to the message content, and assuming that
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 10:00 PM, Stephen Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Matt (or anyone else), have you gotten as far as thinking about NAT hole
punching or some other solution for peer-to-peer?
NAT hole punching has no solution because it's not a problem you can
fix. If I administrate the
Hi Mike,
Of course you are correct about enterprise networks, or anyone else who would
hire a an administrator for their network. I am totally opposed to a rouge,
corporate policy-subverting employee would would download software without
permission, especially one that would expose a service
On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 11:28 PM, Stephen Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
be like Skype, the popular non-scum Internet phone service that also
performs NAT hole punching (a.k.a. NAT traversal).
I was not aware Skype worked like that- thanks for the info. If you
are using a similar form of
On 5/4/08, Stephen Reed [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Interesting that you should ask about Texai and reasoning / learning
algorithms. As you know, my initial approach to learning is learning by
being taught. Therefore I do not have much yet to offer with regard to
machine learning, learning
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