Hi,
On Mon, May 14, 2007 4:57 pm, David Clark wrote:
Some people take Mathematics and their so called proofs as the gospel
when it comes to programming and AGI. Even though I have a Math minor
from University, I have used next to no Mathematics in my 30 year
programming/design career. I
- Original Message -
From: Derek Zahn
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2007 1:49 PM
Subject: RE: [agi] Determinism
Matt Mahoney writes:
(sigh)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scruffies
I don't think my disagreement with Matt is about Neats vs Scruffies
Saying that you don't trade time for memory in models or any computer
program just shows a lack of real world experience on the part of Matt IMHO.
David Clark
Of course CS is full of time/memory tradeoffs, but I think Matt's point was
that a finite-state machine just can't completely
On 5/14/07, David Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Even though I have a Math minor from University, I have used next to no
Mathematics in my 30 year programming/design career.
Yes, but what do you program?
I've been programming for 24 years and I use math all the time.
Recently I've been
Have to blurb on this as it irks me -
Even if you write a Hello World app it is a mathematical entity expressed
through a mathematical medium. Software layers from source to binary to OS
to drivers are a gradation from the mathematically abstract to the physical
world as is with painting an
On Monday 14 May 2007 11:02:33 am Benjamin Goertzel wrote:
We use some probability theory ... and some of the theory of rewriting
systems, lambda calculus, etc. This stuff is in a subordinate role to a
cognitive-systems-theory-based design, but is still very useful...
ditto -- and for my
- Original Message -
From: Benjamin Goertzel
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 8:02 AM
Subject: Re: [agi] Determinism
I have never been impressed by complicated formulas and I have been many
slick (Math) talking people who couldn't produce anything
for *serious* debate (like making operating system holy wars a
minor skirmish in comparison :-)
- Original Message -
From: Benjamin Goertzel
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: [agi] Determinism
You might be correct for your project
dc: I have never been impressed by complicated formulas and I have been many
slick (Math) talking people who couldn't produce anything that worked in the
real world.
Ben: A fascinating Freudian slip! ;-)
Wow - you're the first AI person I've come across with any Freudian
perspective. Minsky
- Original Message -
From: Matt Mahoney [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 4:15 PM
Subject: Re: [agi] Determinism
Suppose machine A has 1 MB of memory and machine B has 2 MB. They may
have
different instruction sets. You have a program written
--- David Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you reversed the roles, you could not do it because you would need to
declare a 2 MB array on a computer with only 1 MB of memory. The best you
could do is simulate a machine like B but with a smaller memory. For some
test programs you will
Matt Mahoney writes:
(sigh)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scruffies
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Saturday, May 12, 2007, Matt Mahoney wrote:
MM Now suppose you wanted to simulate A on A. (You may suspect a program has a
MM virus and want to see what it would do without actually running it). Now
you
MM have the same problem. You need an array to reprsent your own memory, and
it
MM would
David Clark writes:
I can predict with high accuracy what I will think on almost any topic.
People that can't, either don't know much about the principles they use to
think or aren't very rational. I don't use emotion or the current room
temperature to make decisions. (No implication
--- David Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Matt Mahoney [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 7:10 PM
Subject: Re: [agi] Determinism
By simulate, I mean in the formal sense, as a universal Turing machine can
- Original Message -
From: Matt Mahoney [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 6:04 PM
Subject: Re: [agi] Determinism
Perhaps I did not state clearly. I assume you are familiar with the
concept
of a universal Turing machine. Suppose a machine M
]
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: [agi] Determinism
I really hate to get into this endless discussion. I think everyone
agrees
that some randomness in AGI decision making is good (e.g. learning through
exploration). Also it does not matter if the source
--- David Clark [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A computer with finite memory can
only model (predict) a computer with less memory. No computer can
simulate
itself. When we introspect on our own brains, we must simplify the model
to a
probabilistic one, whether or not it is actually
On 5/8/07, James Ratcliff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Pei,
The only problem I see with choosing the first one Pei, is that given the
3 choices, and taking #1, if the system does not learn anything extra that
would help it make a decision, it would be forever stuck in that loop, and
never able to
I really hate to get into this endless discussion. I think everyone agrees
that some randomness in AGI decision making is good (e.g. learning through
exploration). Also it does not matter if the source of randomness is a true
random source, such as thermal noise in neurons, or a deterministic
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