RE: [agi] HOW TO CREATE THE BUZZ THAT BRINGS THE BUCKS

2007-09-28 Thread Edward W. Porter
threats, such as the fact that these machines will be able to put most people in America out of anything like their current work, unless we discuss and think about them. I would like to hear your answer. Don Detrich Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617

RE: [agi] HOW TO CREATE THE BUZZ THAT BRINGS THE BUCKS

2007-09-28 Thread Edward W. Porter
be noted that the mere fact there have not been any major disasters in fields as new as biotechology and nanotechnolgy in no ways means that all concern for such threats were or are foolish. The levies in New Orleans held for how many years before they proved insufficient. Edward W. Porter Porter

RE: [agi] Religion-free technical content

2007-09-29 Thread Edward W. Porter
Intelligence.” I also think having more reasoned answers to such questions will actually make promoting AGI funding easier. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Kaj

RE: [agi] Religion-free technical content

2007-09-30 Thread Edward W. Porter
likely to be used in AGI to operate as desired; what are the major techniques for dealing with those problems; and how effect have those techniques been. I would like to know how many other people on this list would also. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833

RE: [agi] Religion-free technical content

2007-09-30 Thread Edward W. Porter
to avoiding the very real dangers its very great power could bring. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Don Detrich [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 30, 2007 1:12

RE: [agi] Religion-free technical content

2007-10-01 Thread Edward W. Porter
, than again, it would seem the term covered virtually any automatic learning system capable of changing its behavior. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Matt Mahoney [mailto

RE: [agi] Religion-free technical content

2007-10-01 Thread Edward W. Porter
belief that a Novamente-type system could have consideral room to learn and adapt while still being restrained to avoid certain goals and behaviors. Afterall, most of us humans do. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL

RE: [agi] Religion-free technical content

2007-10-01 Thread Edward W. Porter
to have the types of biases you suggest that would greatly influence the each of the millions to trillions (depending on system size) of patterns in the cloud of concepts that would be formed, their links, and their activation patterns. So, how is your system different? What am I missing? Edward W

[agi] The Future of Computing, According to Intel -- Massively multicore processors will enable smarter computers that can infer our activities

2007-10-01 Thread Edward W. Porter
for AGI coming fast, but one of the world's biggest, fastest, smartest computer technology companies is focusing on developing software using massively parallel hardware that is directly related to AGI. It's all going to start happening very fast. The race is on. Edward W. Porter Porter

RE: [agi] The Future of Computing, According to Intel -- Massively multicore processors will enable smarter computers that can infer our activities

2007-10-02 Thread Edward W. Porter
for many tasks, greatly increasing their commercial value. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Jiri Jelinek [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 1:21 AM

RE: [agi] Religion-free technical content

2007-10-02 Thread Edward W. Porter
to the system. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: J Storrs Hall, PhD [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007 4:39 PM To: agi@v2.listbox.com Subject: Re: [agi

RE: [agi] Religion-free technical content

2007-10-03 Thread Edward W. Porter
in many respects, have been amazingly powerful considering many of them ran on roughly fly-brain-level hardware. As I have been saying for decades, I know which end is up in AI -- its computational horsepower. And it is coming fast. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH

RE: [agi] Religion-free technical content

2007-10-03 Thread Edward W. Porter
that definition? A lot of people on this list seem to hang a lot on RSI, as they use it, implying it is necessary for human-level AGI. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From

RE: [agi] RSI

2007-10-03 Thread Edward W. Porter
Good distinction! Edward W. Porter -Original Message- From: Derek Zahn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 3:22 PM To: agi@v2.listbox.com Subject: RE: [agi] RSI Edward W. Porter writes: As I say, what is, and is not, RSI would appear to be a matter

RE: [agi] Religion-free technical content

2007-10-03 Thread Edward W. Porter
AI post-grad of today had such hardware to play with, things would really start jumping. Within ten years the equivents of such machines could easily be sold for somewhere between $10k and $100k, and lots of post-grads will be playing with them. Hardware to the people! Edward W. Porter Porter

RE: [agi] Religion-free technical content

2007-10-03 Thread Edward W. Porter
technical content On 10/3/07, Edward W. Porter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In fact, if the average AI post-grad of today had such hardware to play with, things would really start jumping. Within ten years the equivents of such machines could easily be sold for somewhere between $10k and $100k, and lots

RE: [agi] Religion-free technical content

2007-10-03 Thread Edward W. Porter
representational and behavioral learning can be in the human mind. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Linas Vepstas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 03

RE: [agi] Religion-free technical content breaking the small hardware mindset

2007-10-03 Thread Edward W. Porter
already spend a lot of time thinking about exactly this. Those who are interested in AGi -- and haven’t already done so -- should follow their lead. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message

RE: [agi] breaking the small hardware mindset

2007-10-03 Thread Edward W. Porter
at a very broad level, could be mapped into a Novamente-like machine to draw analogizes between virtually any types of patterns that shared similarities at some level which seem worthy of note to the system in the current context. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH

RE: [agi] Another AGI Project

2007-10-04 Thread Edward W. Porter
it is trying to solve already done (which is very helpful for what it is trying to do), but which at least suggests a question about how well it will be able to learn in areas where that type of hard work has not already been done for it. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH

RE: [agi] breaking the small hardware mindset

2007-10-04 Thread Edward W. Porter
when generating natural language output at the level people can, assuming there is some roughly semantic-net like representation of world knowledge, and lets say we have roughly brain level hardware, what ever that is. What are the current major problems? Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String

RE: [agi] breaking the small hardware mindset

2007-10-04 Thread Edward W. Porter
importantly in the many levels between the semantic and the pixel level is possible with today’s hardware in limited domains. It should be fully possible across all sensory domains with the much more powerful hardware that the Serre’s of the future will be working on. Edward W. Porter Porter

RE: [agi] breaking the small hardware mindset

2007-10-04 Thread Edward W. Porter
virtually all domains. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: J Storrs Hall, PhD [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 1:44 PM To: agi@v2.listbox.com

RE: [agi] breaking the small hardware mindset

2007-10-04 Thread Edward W. Porter
, and, if not, are you allowed to send me a copy of the better one for free? Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Pei Wang [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 3:13

RE: [agi] breaking the small hardware mindset

2007-10-04 Thread Edward W. Porter
symbolic logic slowly. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: J Storrs Hall, PhD [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 4:30 PM To: agi@v2.listbox.com Subject: Re

RE: [agi] breaking the small hardware mindset

2007-10-04 Thread Edward W. Porter
properly call image schemas. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Mike Tintner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2007 4:03 PM To: agi@v2.listbox.com

RE: [agi] Religion-free technical content breaking the small hardware mindset

2007-10-05 Thread Edward W. Porter
.) Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Linas Vepstas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2007 7:31 PM To: agi@v2.listbox.com Subject: Re: [agi] Religion

[agi] Do the inference rules of categorical logic make sense?

2007-10-05 Thread Edward W. Porter
with more knowledge of the subject than I could point out my presumed error. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your

RE: [agi] Do the inference rules of categorical logic make sense?

2007-10-06 Thread Edward W. Porter
If you are a machine reasoning from pieces of information you receive in no particular order how do you know which is the major and which is the minor premise? Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED

RE: [agi] Do the inference rules of categorical logic make sense?

2007-10-06 Thread Edward W. Porter
that you would find the first of these two inductions has a larger truth value than the second and that the third probably has a larger truth value than the second.. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED

RE: [agi] Do the inference rules of categorical logic make sense?

2007-10-06 Thread Edward W. Porter
Thanks. So as I understand it, whether a premise is major or minor is defined by its role of its terms relative to a given conconclusion. But the same premise could play a major role relative to once conclusion and a minor role relative to another. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String

RE: [agi] Do the inference rules of categorical logic make sense?

2007-10-06 Thread Edward W. Porter
Great, I look forward to trying this when I get back from a brief vacation for the holiday weekend. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Pei Wang [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED

RE: [agi] Do the inference rules of categorical logic make sense?

2007-10-08 Thread Edward W. Porter
Charles D. Hixson’s post of 10/8/2007 5:50 PM, was quite impressive as a first reaction upon reading about NARS. After I first read Pei Wang’s “A Logic of Categorization”, it took me quite a while to know what I thought of it. It was not until I got answers to some of my basic questions from Pei

RE: [agi] Religion-free technical content breaking the small hardware mindset

2007-10-08 Thread Edward W. Porter
transplant, once said something to the effect of “If you think old people look bad from the outside, you should see how bad they look from the inside.” That would presumably also apply to our brains. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617

RE: [agi] Do the inference rules of categorical logic make sense?

2007-10-09 Thread Edward W. Porter
welcome comments, not only from Mark, but also from other readers. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Mark Waser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2007 9:46

RE: [agi] Do the inference rules of categorical logic make sense?

2007-10-09 Thread Edward W. Porter
that are inheritance statements, rather than between entire statemens, unless the statement was a subject or a predicate of a higher order inheritance statement. So what you are referring to appears to be beyond what I have read. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833

RE: [agi] Do the inference rules of categorical logic make sense?

2007-10-09 Thread Edward W. Porter
probabilistic effects on the other, as you suggested, assuming that the fact a raven is black has implications on whether or not it is white. But such two way probabilistic relationships are at the core of Bayesian inference, so there is no reason why they should not be part of an AGI. Edward W. Porter

RE: [agi] Religion-free technical content breaking the small hardware mindset

2007-10-09 Thread Edward W. Porter
visualspatial reasoning, not auditory nor linguistic intelligence. Some mentally retarded autistic people have extremely high IQs. Edward W. Porter wrote: Dear indefinite article, The Wikipedia entry for Flynn Effect suggests -- in agreement with your comment in the below post -- that older people

RE: [agi] Do the inference rules.. P.S.

2007-10-10 Thread Edward W. Porter
I don’t know if, how, or how well NARS would handle all of the task of performing the type of “recastings” you claim is desirable. But remember NARS was part of Hofstadter’s Fluid Analogy Research Group (FARG), which was dedicated to the very type of “recasting” you mention -- that is non-literal

RE: [agi] Do the inference rules.. P.S.

2007-10-11 Thread Edward W. Porter
. But Validmir is right for believing that it should be possible to build an AGI that was well grounded in its own domain, without any knowledge of the physical world (other than as the manifesting of bits and bytes). Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494

RE: [agi] Do the inference rules.. P.S.

2007-10-11 Thread Edward W. Porter
Dear indefinate article, Agreed, a human-like reasoning system -- that is one that has associations for concepts similar to a human -- requires human-like grounding. I have said exactly that for years. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax

RE: [agi] Do the inference rules.. P.S.

2007-10-11 Thread Edward W. Porter
in this way. So it would be good to have more than just learning from text. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: John G. Rose [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 11

RE: [agi] Do the inference rules.. P.S.

2007-10-11 Thread Edward W. Porter
TYPE OF VISUAL SENSORY MODELING YOU SEEM TO BE ADVOCATING. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Mike Tintner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 7:53

Re: [agi] Do the inference rules.. P.S.

2007-10-12 Thread Edward W. Porter
PM POST, THERE IS NO REASON WHY KNOWLEDGE LEARNED FROM BOOKWORLD COULD NOT BE COMBINED KNOWLEDGE LEARNED BY OTHER MEANS, INCLUDING THE IMAGE SEQUENCES YOU ARE SO FOND OF. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED

RE: [agi] The Grounding of Maths

2007-10-12 Thread Edward W. Porter
role in mathematical thinking. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com

RE: [agi] The Grounding of Maths

2007-10-12 Thread Edward W. Porter
mathematical thought. To a certain extent math is a language, and it would be surprising if linguistic patterns and behaviors -- or at least patterns and behaviors partially derived from them -- didn’t play a large role in mathematical thinking. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12

RE: [agi] Do the inference rules.. P.S.

2007-10-12 Thread Edward W. Porter
Jean-Paul, Thank you for you kind comments. I look forward to hearing about your system. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Jean-paul Van Belle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED

RE: [agi] The Grounding of Maths

2007-10-12 Thread Edward W. Porter
consciousness is aware of. Does any body else on this list have similar episodes of what appears to be largely verbal conscious thought, or am I (a) out of touch with my own conscious processes, and/or (b) weird? Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722

RE: [agi] Do the inference rules.. P.S.

2007-10-12 Thread Edward W. Porter
am very impressed. I think drawing analogies should be child's play for Novamente. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Mike Tintner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday

RE: [agi] The Grounding of Maths

2007-10-13 Thread Edward W. Porter
I im trying to send the message by just typing my comments in your post referred to below. I have been told that will end up shoing your text with a in front of each line. Just in case it doesn't if you view this in rich text you will see my comments underlined. -Original Message-

RE: [agi] The Grounding of Maths

2007-10-15 Thread Edward W. Porter
to, as reflected, in the case of vsion by the paper by Serre I have cited so many times). This gen/comp hierarchy bottoms out with simple patterns in sensory and emotional input space Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED

RE: [agi] symbol grounding QA

2007-10-15 Thread Edward W. Porter
of arithmetic to be valid and useful in the real world of things like sheep, cows, and money. Of course there could be semantics in an imaginary world, but they would come from experiences of imagination. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax

RE: [agi] symbol grounding QA

2007-10-15 Thread Edward W. Porter
, BUT YET HAS PROVED USEFUL, AT LEAST FOR ENTERTAINMENT, IS THE HARRY POTTER SERIES, OR SOME OTHER FICTIONAL WORLD WHICH CREATES A FICTIONAL REALITY IN WHICH THERE IS A CERTAIN REGULARITY TO THE BEHAVIOR AND CHARACTERISTICS OF THE FICTITIOUS PEOPLE AND PLACES IT DESCRIBES. Edward W. Porter Porter

Re: [agi] symbol grounding QA

2007-10-15 Thread Edward W. Porter
and events in its own environment. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to: http://v2.listbox.com

RE: [agi] symbol grounding QA

2007-10-16 Thread Edward W. Porter
. “Again, exactly my point. It wouldn't matter if one was copied from the other, or reverse-engineered, or produced by a random-number generator (as unlikely as that would be).” I AM GLAD SOMEONE AGREES WITH ME ON THAT. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494

RE: [agi] symbol grounding QA

2007-10-16 Thread Edward W. Porter
OBTAINED BY THE EXPERIENCES OF THE INTELLIGENCE THAT IS USING IT. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Richard Loosemore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 16

[agi] More public awarenesss that AGI is coming fast

2007-10-17 Thread Edward W. Porter
heard or thought of, but is its evidence of the changing human collective consciousness on subjects relating to the singularity. Its link is http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;1028029695;fp;;fpid;;pf;1 ) Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494

RE: [agi] symbol grounding QA

2007-10-17 Thread Edward W. Porter
TO LOOSEMORE. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: J Storrs Hall, PhD [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 11:09 AM To: agi@v2.listbox.com Subject: Re: [agi

RE: [agi] More public awarenesss that AGI is coming fast

2007-10-17 Thread Edward W. Porter
David, You raise an imporant issue, about the danger of backlash and the need to plan how to prevent it, which has been discussed before on this thread. But it is so important it should be raised again from time to time. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833

RE: [agi] symbol grounding QA

2007-10-18 Thread Edward W. Porter
and the words. Holonic neatly captures this process by emphasizing that the entities being disambiguated are both made up of parts and are themselves parts of larger entities. Is that a fair exegesis, Eliezer? Josh On Wednesday 17 October 2007 06:43:52 pm, Edward W. Porter wrote: JOSH, I KNEW

RE: [agi] More public awarenesss that AGI is coming fast

2007-10-18 Thread Edward W. Porter
capability could be the basis of extremely valuable commercial products. Some hype is bull and some hype is spreading the truth. To say that now is the time to start making rapid strides in AGI is spreading the truth. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833

RE: [agi] symbol grounding QA

2007-10-18 Thread Edward W. Porter
. -Original Message- From: J Storrs Hall, PhD [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 9:51 AM To: agi@v2.listbox.com Subject: Re: [agi] symbol grounding QA On Thursday 18 October 2007 09:28:04 am, Edward W. Porter wrote: Josh, According to that font of undisputed truth

RE: [agi] Poll

2007-10-19 Thread Edward W. Porter
/2006-02/nsae-tsf021706.php Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Vladimir Nesov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 5:28 AM To: agi@v2.listbox.com Subject

RE: [agi] Poll

2007-10-19 Thread Edward W. Porter
Josh, Great post. Warrants being read multiple times. You said. JOSH I'm working on a formalism that unifies a very high-level programming language (whose own code is a basic datatype, as in lisp), spreading-activation semantic-net-like representational structures, and subsumption-style

RE: [agi] Poll

2007-10-18 Thread Edward W. Porter
Matt Mahoney’s Thu 10/18/2007 9:15 PM post states MAHONEY There is possibly a 6 order of magnitude gap between the size of a cognitive model of human memory (10^9 bits) and the number of synapses in the brain (10^15), and precious little research to resolve this discrepancy. In fact, these

RE: Semantics [WAS Re: [agi] symbol grounding QA]

2007-10-18 Thread Edward W. Porter
Re: Richard Loosemore's below copied post LOOSEMORE Overall, I believe that possible-worlds semantics serves no purpose in AI except to justify the idea that statements like It is the case that all cups are drinking vessels that possess a handle can have something like a truth value that is

RE: [agi] evolution-like systems

2007-10-20 Thread Edward W. Porter
Isn't one of the key concepts behind hierarchical memory (as described in Jeff Hawkins's work, the Serre paper I have cited, Rodney Books's subsumption, etc.) exactly that is builds hierarchically upon the regularities and modularities of whatever word it is learning in, acting in, and

RE: [agi] An AGI Test/Prize

2007-10-20 Thread Edward W. Porter
a transition into the future that is satisfying for most humans Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: John G. Rose [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2007 1

RE: [agi] An AGI Test/Prize

2007-10-20 Thread Edward W. Porter
? And what are the always rearing “CA”s, you know, the ones with the tiny little heads? Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: John G. Rose [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday

RE: [agi] An AGI Test/Prize

2007-10-20 Thread Edward W. Porter
So, do you or don't you model uncertainty, contradictory evidence, degree of similarity, and all those good things? And what is a CA, or don't i want to know? Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED

RE: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses.. P.S.

2007-10-21 Thread Edward W. Porter
Ben, Good Post I my mind the ability to map each of N things into a model of a space is a very valuable thing. It lets us represent all of the N^2 spatial relationships between those N things based on just N mappings. This is something we all know, but it is one of the many wonderful

RE: [agi] An AGI Test/Prize

2007-10-21 Thread Edward W. Porter
Your busy and I'm busy, so we can wait for another topic before communicating next. But our communication on this topic has been interesting. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message

RE: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses.. P.S.

2007-10-21 Thread Edward W. Porter
of locality field on concepts that get connected. On 10/21/07, Benjamin Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/21/07, Edward W. Porter [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ben, Good Post I my mind the ability to map each of N things into a model of a space is a very valuable

RE: Bogus Neuroscience [WAS Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses]

2007-10-21 Thread Edward W. Porter
] Edward W. Porter wrote: [snip] There is a very interest paper at http://www.icsuci.edu/~granger/RHGenginesJ1s.pdf http://www.ics.uci.edu/~granger/RHGenginesJ1s.pdf that I have referred to before on this list that states the cortico-thalmic feedback loop functions to serialize the brain's

RE: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses.. P.S.

2007-10-21 Thread Edward W. Porter
about that? Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Vladimir Nesov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 6:51 PM To: agi@v2.listbox.com Subject: Re: [agi] Human

RE: Bogus Neuroscience [WAS Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses]

2007-10-21 Thread Edward W. Porter
-goal, and conscious attention selection. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Benjamin Goertzel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 3:05 PM To: agi@v2

FW: Bogus Neuroscience [WAS Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses]

2007-10-22 Thread Edward W. Porter
is a message I sent in defense of your paper. If you have comments to either me or the list I would be interested in hearing them. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Edward W

RE: Bogus Neuroscience [WAS Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses]

2007-10-22 Thread Edward W. Porter
, October 22, 2007 2:55 PM To: agi@v2.listbox.com Subject: Re: Bogus Neuroscience [WAS Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses] Edward W. Porter wrote: Dear Readers of the RE: Bogus Neuroscience Thread, Because I am the one responsible for bringing to the attention of this list

RE: Bogus Neuroscience [WAS Re: [agi] Human memory and number of synapses]

2007-10-25 Thread Edward W. Porter
Richard, Let's just bury the hatchet. I am too busy right now to spend any more time on this. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Richard Loosemore [mailto:[EMAIL

RE: [agi] Recommendation/Request

2007-10-26 Thread Edward W. Porter
Please forgive the ignorance, but what is a blog / blog planet, Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Daniel Holt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007

RE: [agi] Recommendation/Request

2007-10-26 Thread Edward W. Porter
Thanks, Richard Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Richard Loosemore [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 1:00 PM To: agi@v2.listbox.com Subject: Re

RE: [agi] Minsky and the AI emergency

2007-10-30 Thread Edward W. Porter
of cognitive phenomena including aspects of children's language acquisition, concept formation, and attention. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Richard Loosemore [mailto

[agi] Nirvana? Manyana? Never!

2007-11-01 Thread Edward W. Porter
Jiri Jelinek wrote on Thu 11/01/07 2:51 AM JIRI Ok, here is how I see it: If we survive, I believe we will eventually get plugged into some sort of pleasure machine and we will not care about intelligence at all. Intelligence is a useless tool when there are no problems and no goals to think

[agi] Can humans keep superintelligences under control -- can superintelligence-augmented humans compete

2007-11-02 Thread Edward W. Porter
Can humans keep superintelligences under control -- can superintelligence-augmented humans compete Richard Loosemore (RL) wrote the following on Fri 11/2/2007 11:15 AM, in response to a post by Matt Mahoney. My comments are preceded by ED RL This is the worst possible summary of the situation,

RE: [agi] Can humans keep superintelligences under control

2007-11-03 Thread Edward W. Porter
Richard in your November 02, 2007 11:15 AM post you stated: If AI systems are built with motivation systems that are stable, then we could predict that they will remain synchronized with the goals of the human race until the end of history. and I can think of many, many types of non-goal-stack

RE: [agi] Nirvana? Manyana? Never!

2007-11-03 Thread Edward W. Porter
I have skimmed many of the postings in this thread, and (although I have not seen anyone say so) to a certain extent Jiri's positiion seems somewhat similar to that in certain Eastern meditative traditions or perhaps in certain Christian or other mystical Blind Faiths. I am not a particularly

RE: [agi] Nirvana? Manyana? Never!

2007-11-04 Thread Edward W. Porter
Jiri, Thanks for your reply. I think we have both stated our positions fairly well. It doesn't seem either side is moving toward the other. So I think we should respect the fact we have very different opinions and values, and leave it at that. Ed Porter -Original Message- From: Jiri

RE: [agi] Human vs human-level Intelligence

2007-11-07 Thread Edward W. Porter
-level Intelligence On 11/7/07, Edward W. Porter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is no reason why properly designed AGIs with world knowledge and the power to compute from it would have any less common sense than humans. Ok. Are you also going to sufficiently cripple your AGI's ability to think

RE: [agi] Questions

2007-11-07 Thread Edward W. Porter
As I understand Monika Krishan's competence/performance distinction, it was one between what the brain can and cannot do (i.e., competency) and how fast it can do it (i.e., performance). (I don't know whether how well (other than how fast) it can do something is competence or performance or both)

RE: [agi] Questions

2007-11-07 Thread Edward W. Porter
: Monika Krishan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 10:20 PM To: agi@v2.listbox.com Subject: Re: [agi] Questions On Nov 7, 2007 8:46 AM, Edward W. Porter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is much easier to think how superhuman intelligences will outshine us in the performance

RE: [agi] How valuable is Solmononoff Induction for real world AGI?

2007-11-08 Thread Edward W. Porter
VLADIMIR NESOV IN HIS 11/07/07 10:54 PM POST SAID VLADIMIR “Hutter shows that prior can be selected rather arbitrarily without giving up too much” ED Yes. I was wondering why the Solomonoff Induction paper made such a big stink about picking the prior (and then came up which a choice that

RE: [agi] How valuable is Solmononoff Induction for real world AGI?

2007-11-08 Thread Edward W. Porter
Jef, The paper cited below is more relevant to Kolmogorov complexity than Solomonoff induction. I had thought about the use of subroutines before I wrote my questioning critique of Solomonoff Induction. Nothing in it seems to deal with the fact that the descriptive length of reality’s

RE: [agi] How valuable is Solmononoff Induction for real world AGI?

2007-11-08 Thread Edward W. Porter
Derek, Thank you. I think the list should be a place where people can debate and criticize ideas, but I think such poorly reasoned and insulting flames like Jefs are not helpful, particularly if they are driving potentially valuable contributors like you off the list. Luckily such flames

RE: [agi] How valuable is Solmononoff Induction for real world AGI?

2007-11-08 Thread Edward W. Porter
- From: Jef Allbright [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 12:55 PM To: agi@v2.listbox.com Subject: Re: [agi] How valuable is Solmononoff Induction for real world AGI? On 11/8/07, Edward W. Porter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jef, The paper cited below is more relevant

RE: [agi] How valuable is Solmononoff Induction for real world AGI?

2007-11-08 Thread Edward W. Porter
, and they are commonly used throughout AI. For instance in evolutionary program learning one uses a parsimony pressure which automatically rates smaller program trees as more fit... ben On Nov 8, 2007 12:21 PM, Edward W. Porter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BEN However, the current form of AIXI-related math

RE: [agi] How valuable is Solmononoff Induction for real world AGI?

2007-11-08 Thread Edward W. Porter
direct look up. Even Kolmogorov and Solomonoff at least accord it the honor of multiple program, and ones that can be quite complex at that, complex enough to even do “interpretation.” Ed Porter Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617

RE: [agi] How valuable is Solmononoff Induction for real world AGI?

2007-11-08 Thread Edward W. Porter
Subject: Re: [agi] How valuable is Solmononoff Induction for real world AGI? On 11/8/07, Edward W. Porter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: VLADIMIR NESOV IN HIS 11/07/07 10:54 PM POST SAID VLADIMIR Hutter shows that prior can be selected rather VLADIMIR arbitrarily without giving up too much BTW

RE: [agi] How valuable is Solmononoff Induction for real world AGI?

2007-11-09 Thread Edward W. Porter
Thank you for your reply. I want to take some time and compare this with the reply I got from Shane Legg and get back to you when I have more time to think about it. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED

RE: [agi] How valuable is Solmononoff Induction for real world AGI?

2007-11-09 Thread Edward W. Porter
valuable is Solmononoff Induction for real world AGI? On 11/8/07, Edward W. Porter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ED Most importantly you say my alleged confusion between subjective and objective maps into my difficulty to grasp the significance of Solomonoff induction. If you could do so

RE: [agi] How valuable is Solmononoff Induction for real world AGI?

2007-11-09 Thread Edward W. Porter
Induction for real world AGI? On 11/9/07, Edward W. Porter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: JEF ## Edward, can you explain what you might have meant by based on the likelihood that the probability...? ED ## I think my statement -- Dragon selected speech recognition word candidates based

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