Mike,
To put it into your own words here, mathematics is a delineation out of the infinitely diversifiable, the same "zone" where design comes from. And design needs a medium, the medium can be the symbolic expressions and language of mathematics. And so conveniently here the mathematics is expressible in a software language, computer system and database. Don't forget, the designer in all of us needs a medium to express and communicate, if not it remains in a void. A designer emits design, and in this case, AGI, the design is the/a designer. Sounds kind of hokey but true. there are other narrow cases where this is true, but not in the grand way AGI is. IOW, in a way, AGI will design itself, it's coming out of the infinitely diversifiable and maintaining a communication with it as a delineation within itself. It's self-organizingly injecting itself into this chaotic world via our intended or unintended manifestations. John From: Mike Tintner [mailto:tint...@blueyonder.co.uk] JAR: Define "infinitely diversifiable". I just did more or less. A form/shape can be said to be "delineated" (although I'm open to alternative terms, because "delineation" needn't consist of using lines as such - as in my examples, it could involve using amorphous masses, or "pseudo-lines"). Diversification - in this case creating new kinds of font - therefore involves using 1) new principles of delineation - the kinds of lines/visual elements used are radically changed, and 2) new principles of **arrangement** of the visual elements - for example, various fonts there can be said to conform to an "A" arrangement, but one or more shifted that to a new "triangle" arrangement without any cross-bar in the middle; using double/triple lines could be classified as either 1) or 2) I guess. An innovative (although pos. PITA) arrangement would be to have elements that move/are mobile. And delineation involves 3) introducing new kinds of elements *in addition* to those already there or deleting existing kinds of elements. "Diversifiable" is merely recognizing the realities of the fields of art and design, which is that they will - and a "creative algorithm" therefore would have to be able to - infinitely/endlessly transform the constitution and principles of delineation and depiction of any and all forms. I think part of the problem here is that you guys think like mathematicians and not designers - you see the world in terms of more or less rigidly structured abstract forms (& that allows for all geometric morphisms) - but a designer has to think consciously or unconsciously much more fluidly in terms of kaleidomorphic, freely structured and fluidly morphable abstract forms. He sees abstract forms as infinitely diversifiable. You don't. To do AGI, I'm suggesting - in fact, I'm absolutely sure - you will have to start thinking in addition like designers. If you have contempt for design, as most people here seem to do, it is actually you who deserve contempt. "God" was a designer long before "He" took up maths. From: J. Andrew Rogers <mailto:jar.mail...@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 5:23 PM To: AGI <mailto:a...@listbox.com> Subject: Re: [agi] Re: Compressed Cross-Indexed Concepts On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Mike Tintner <tint...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: You do understand BTW that your "creative algorithm" must be able to produce not just a limited collection of shapes [either squares or A's] but an ****infinitely diversifiable** collection. Define "infinitely diversifiable". There are whole fields of computer science dedicated to small applications that routinely generate effectively unbounded diversity in the strongest possible sense. -- J. Andrew Rogers AGI | <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> Description: Image removed by sender.| <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Modify Your Subscription <http://www.listbox.com/> Description: Image removed by sender. AGI | <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now> Archives <https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/> Description: Image removed by sender.| <https://www.listbox.com/member/?&;> Modify Your Subscription <http://www.listbox.com/> Description: Image removed by sender. ------------------------------------------- AGI Archives: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: https://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: https://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244&id_secret=8660244-6e7fb59c Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
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