DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5708-5726

2008-09-30 Thread Ed Murphy
Goethe wrote: 5708 O 1 1.0 comex none 4xAGAINST. Sell Ticket 2VP vote as specified. Your caste is only 2.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5708-5726

2008-09-30 Thread ais523
On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 00:02 -0700, Ed Murphy wrote: Goethe wrote: 5708 O 1 1.0 comex none 4xAGAINST. Sell Ticket 2VP vote as specified. Your caste is only 2. Ooh, sneaky. It's still a good deal for me anyway, though, I think. -- ais523

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5708-5726

2008-09-30 Thread ais523
On Mon, 2008-09-29 at 19:49 -0400, comex wrote: On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 4:51 PM, ais523 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I fill this ticket, specifying AGAINST. Hmm... would you bribe me to vote on 5709 too? I retract my votes on 5709 and vote SELL (2VP - Endorse Murphy) on 5709. Sorry, no can

DIS: Re: BUS: Ruleset failure?

2008-09-30 Thread ais523
On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 07:17 -0400, Geoffrey Spear wrote: I install Murphy as CotC, assuming the text of Rule 2154 includes a provision for doing so. Given that Goethe unconsented after the end of the nomination period, then as far as I can tell, your installation of Murphy works, but regardless

DIS: Re: BUS: Ruleset failure?

2008-09-30 Thread Geoffrey Spear
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 7:56 AM, ais523 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Argument: Rule 1551 is an instrument, and a therefore rule 105 allows it to make rules changes where permitted by rules other than rule 105, and rule 1551 permits itself to make changes. (Note that there is no 'explicitly'

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [IADoP] elections

2008-09-30 Thread Geoffrey Spear
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:59 AM, Elliott Hird [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, where da mad scientist elections be at? The nomination period hasn't ended yet.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [IADoP] elections

2008-09-30 Thread Elliott Hird
On 30 Sep 2008, at 14:07, Geoffrey Spear wrote: On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:59 AM, Elliott Hird [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also, where da mad scientist elections be at? The nomination period hasn't ended yet. Ah. Silly me.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Ruleset failure?

2008-09-30 Thread comex
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:55 AM, Geoffrey Spear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To me this says that the ratification of a ruleset that's missing the effects of the message wherein the Assessor resolved the decision to adopt a proposal doesn't cancel the effects of that resolution, so the proposal

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Knocking at the back door

2008-09-30 Thread comex
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 12:19 AM, Ian Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of Wooble's three arguments in that case, the third one is the only one that is persuasive (although I invite Judge Wooble to show me a dictionary that explicitly equates privilege with all-caps MAY as e appears to claim in

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Knocking at the back door

2008-09-30 Thread ais523
On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 10:58 -0400, comex wrote: Googling 'rights and privileges', one of the websites that comes up contrasts the right of life or liberty with the privilege of driving a car. Assume that a teenager does not have the privilege of driving his car, and MAY NOT and CANNOT do it

DIS: Re: BUS: Vote Market - Broker's Report

2008-09-30 Thread Roger Hicks
On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 2:23 PM, Ben Caplan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 29 September 2008 02:13:41 pm Roger Hicks wrote: Ivan Hope (SLAVE) 80 CoE: ihope ceased to be a Slave yesterday. Pavitra Admitted. Though e is still indebted, despite eir claim otherwise. BobTHJ

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Vote Market - Broker's Report

2008-09-30 Thread ais523
On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 09:06 -0600, Roger Hicks wrote: On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 2:23 PM, Ben Caplan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 29 September 2008 02:13:41 pm Roger Hicks wrote: Ivan Hope (SLAVE) 80 CoE: ihope ceased to be a Slave yesterday. Pavitra Admitted.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Vote Market - Broker's Report

2008-09-30 Thread Roger Hicks
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 9:10 AM, ais523 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 09:06 -0600, Roger Hicks wrote: On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 2:23 PM, Ben Caplan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Monday 29 September 2008 02:13:41 pm Roger Hicks wrote: Ivan Hope (SLAVE) 80 CoE:

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5708-5726

2008-09-30 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Tue, 30 Sep 2008, ais523 wrote: On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 00:02 -0700, Ed Murphy wrote: Goethe wrote: 5708 O 1 1.0 comex none 4xAGAINST. Sell Ticket 2VP vote as specified. Your caste is only 2. Ooh, sneaky. It's still a good deal for me anyway, though, I think. Oh, crumbs.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Knocking at the back door

2008-09-30 Thread Ian Kelly
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:58 AM, comex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The first, too, is irrelevant to this case; the crux of the issue is whether privilege, in ordinary-language meaning, is MAY or CAN. How about both? Googling 'rights and privileges', one of the websites that comes up contrasts

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Knocking at the back door

2008-09-30 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Tue, 30 Sep 2008, comex wrote: Googling 'rights and privileges', one of the websites that comes up contrasts the right of life or liberty with the privilege of driving a car. Assume that a teenager does not have the privilege of driving his car, and MAY NOT and CANNOT do it (he doesn't

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5708-5726

2008-09-30 Thread ais523
On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 08:40 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: On Tue, 30 Sep 2008, ais523 wrote: On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 00:02 -0700, Ed Murphy wrote: Goethe wrote: 5708 O 1 1.0 comex none 4xAGAINST. Sell Ticket 2VP vote as specified. Your caste is only 2. Ooh, sneaky. It's

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Knocking at the back door

2008-09-30 Thread comex
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 11:43 AM, Kerim Aydin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's absurd. I couldn't find my keys for a bit this morning. Does that mean my missing keys revoked my privilege? Practical blockages have little to do with what is granted by law. -Goethe If an entity acting under

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Knocking at the back door

2008-09-30 Thread Ian Kelly
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 9:43 AM, Kerim Aydin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's absurd. I couldn't find my keys for a bit this morning. Does that mean my missing keys revoked my privilege? Practical blockages have little to do with what is granted by law. -Goethe Is there a practical

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Knocking at the back door

2008-09-30 Thread Geoffrey Spear
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 10:58 AM, comex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: we wouldn't say that he had gained the privilege of driving his car; nor would we in the more bizarre situation that he became allowed to do it but remained unable to. What if the teenager got eir driver's license by couldn't

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Knocking at the back door

2008-09-30 Thread ais523
On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 11:53 -0400, Geoffrey Spear wrote: On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 10:58 AM, comex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: we wouldn't say that he had gained the privilege of driving his car; nor would we in the more bizarre situation that he became allowed to do it but remained unable

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Knocking at the back door

2008-09-30 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Tue, 30 Sep 2008, Ian Kelly wrote: On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 9:43 AM, Kerim Aydin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's absurd. I couldn't find my keys for a bit this morning. Does that mean my missing keys revoked my privilege? Practical blockages have little to do with what is granted by law.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Knocking at the back door

2008-09-30 Thread comex
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Geoffrey Spear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What if the teenager got eir driver's license by couldn't find eir keys. E'd have the privilege of driving eir car (e MAY drive it), but not the mechanism for doing so (e CANNOT drive it as it won't start). Again,

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Knocking at the back door

2008-09-30 Thread Geoffrey Spear
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 12:20 PM, comex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, there's a difference between being being unable to do something for reasons unrelated to the law (cannot find keys; no access to email so can't mail agora-business) and because of it (it's a super-duper remote-controlled

DIS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5727-5730

2008-09-30 Thread ais523
On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 08:57 -0700, The PerlNomic Partnership wrote: NUM C I AI SUBMITTER TITLE I vote as follows: 5727 D 1 2.0 Ivan Hope CXXVIILegal Tender SELL (1VP - PRESENT) 5728 D 1 2.0 Ivan Hope CXXVIIWhat, still? FOR 5729 D 1 3.0 comex switch off the

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Knocking at the back door

2008-09-30 Thread Ian Kelly
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Geoffrey Spear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 12:20 PM, comex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, there's a difference between being being unable to do something for reasons unrelated to the law (cannot find keys; no access to email so can't mail

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Knocking at the back door

2008-09-30 Thread Geoffrey Spear
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 12:51 PM, Ian Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about the voting example? An ineligible voter platonically CANNOT vote, and real-life voting works the same way so far as I know. I doubt it; at least in jurisdictions with secret ballots there's absolutely no way to

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Knocking at the back door

2008-09-30 Thread Ian Kelly
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Geoffrey Spear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 12:51 PM, Ian Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What about the voting example? An ineligible voter platonically CANNOT vote, and real-life voting works the same way so far as I know. I doubt it; at

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Knocking at the back door

2008-09-30 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Tue, 30 Sep 2008, ais523 wrote: On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 11:53 -0400, Geoffrey Spear wrote: On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 10:58 AM, comex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: we wouldn't say that he had gained the privilege of driving his car; nor would we in the more bizarre situation that he became allowed

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Knocking at the back door

2008-09-30 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Tue, 30 Sep 2008, Geoffrey Spear wrote: On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 12:20 PM, comex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, there's a difference between being being unable to do something for reasons unrelated to the law (cannot find keys; no access to email so can't mail agora-business) and because

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5727-5730

2008-09-30 Thread Elliott Hird
On 30 Sep 2008, at 18:12, Geoffrey Spear wrote: I challenge this message's claim that it was not published by tusho. I am not Dvorak Herring, nor [EMAIL PROTECTED], nor Annabel. I am Phill, previously known as tusho. That's it.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Knocking at the back door

2008-09-30 Thread Elliott Hird
On 30 Sep 2008, at 18:35, Kerim Aydin wrote: I thought the whole *purpose* of MMI was to set up this conceit, that CAN and CANNOT sets the game physics. This is supported by every precedent I am aware of as well as words like IMPOSSIBLE. Of course I am aware of the self-referential issue of

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5727-5730

2008-09-30 Thread ais523
On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 14:53 -0400, comex wrote: On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Geoffrey Spear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I challenge this message's claim that it was not published by tusho. I challenge this message's claim that it was not pubilshed by root. I challenge any claim this

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5727-5730

2008-09-30 Thread Elliott Hird
On 30 Sep 2008, at 19:55, ais523 wrote: On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 14:53 -0400, comex wrote: On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Geoffrey Spear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I challenge this message's claim that it was not published by tusho. I challenge this message's claim that it was not pubilshed

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5727-5730

2008-09-30 Thread ais523
On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 20:05 +0100, Elliott Hird wrote: On 30 Sep 2008, at 19:55, ais523 wrote: On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 14:53 -0400, comex wrote: On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Geoffrey Spear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I challenge this message's claim that it was not published by tusho.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5727-5730

2008-09-30 Thread Geoffrey Spear
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 2:55 PM, ais523 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 14:53 -0400, comex wrote: On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Geoffrey Spear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I challenge this message's claim that it was not published by tusho. I challenge this message's claim that

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5727-5730

2008-09-30 Thread Elliott Hird
On 30 Sep 2008, at 20:47, ais523 wrote: Actually I posted that to a-d deliberately, it was a bit too frivolous for the Public Forum IMO. (It was partly an illusion to the spoon-discussion memes that blow up out of nowhere in B every now and then, such as players signing messages in s-d as from

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5727-5730

2008-09-30 Thread ais523
On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 15:37 -0400, Geoffrey Spear wrote: On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 2:55 PM, ais523 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 14:53 -0400, comex wrote: On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Geoffrey Spear [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I challenge this message's claim that it was

DIS: Proto: Return of the return of the secret ballot

2008-09-30 Thread comex
Proto: Return of the return of the secret ballot (AI=3) [The secret ballot (which I wasn't around to see in Agora) sounds fun, and most people who opposed P5605 did so because it would give the Promotor too much power. So this is based on P5605, but the author of a proposal has control over

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5727-5730

2008-09-30 Thread ihope
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 1:11 PM, Ian Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 5727 D 1 2.0 Ivan Hope CXXVIILegal Tender AGAINST (at least allow currencies the chance to opt out) Legal tender assets are defined by the currency's backing document, not by the legal tender assets' backing document.

DIS: Re: BUS: Loss of privileges

2008-09-30 Thread Geoffrey Spear
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 7:26 PM, Kerim Aydin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: regulated by the Rules, with the sole exception of changing the Rules, which is permitted only when the Rules explicitly or implicitly permit it. Is it likely that changing the rules will cease to be

DIS: Re: BUS: How to win by bribery

2008-09-30 Thread Taral
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 4:39 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Proposal 5707 has been adopted, awarding a win to ais523. You owe me 8 VP. :P -- Taral [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please let me know if there's any further trouble I can give you. -- Unknown

DIS: Re: BUS: Bayes

2008-09-30 Thread comex
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:16 PM, Elliott Hird [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I intend, with the consent of all parties to Bayes, to cause Bayes to register. I consent.

DIS: Re: BUS: Bayes

2008-09-30 Thread Ian Kelly
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 6:15 PM, comex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 3. bayes.py is a script whose purpose is to act on behalf of Bayes in a generally autonomous way, controlled by the parties to this contract. 4. bayes.py CAN cause Bayes to act by sending a message from [EMAIL PROTECTED] How can

DIS: Re: BUS: Loss of privileges

2008-09-30 Thread Ian Kelly
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Kerim Aydin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i. Every person has the right, though not necessarily the ability, to perform actions that are not prohibited or regulated by the Rules, with the sole exception of changing the Rules, which is

DIS: Re: BUS: How to win by bribery

2008-09-30 Thread Ian Kelly
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 5:39 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Proposal 5707 has been adopted Not until the Assessor determines the option selected by Agora. -root

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bayes

2008-09-30 Thread Elliott Hird
On 01/10/2008, Ian Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 6:15 PM, comex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 3. bayes.py is a script whose purpose is to act on behalf of Bayes in a generally autonomous way, controlled by the parties to this contract. 4. bayes.py CAN cause Bayes to act by

DIS: Re: BUS: Bayes

2008-09-30 Thread Elliott Hird
On 01/10/2008, Dvorak Herring [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree to the Bayes contract if I can. -- Dvorak Herring You cannot.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bayes

2008-09-30 Thread comex
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:30 PM, Ian Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 6:15 PM, comex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 3. bayes.py is a script whose purpose is to act on behalf of Bayes in a generally autonomous way, controlled by the parties to this contract. 4. bayes.py CAN

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: How to win by bribery

2008-09-30 Thread comex
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:35 PM, Ian Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 5:39 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Proposal 5707 has been adopted Not until the Assessor determines the option selected by Agora. Uh... how silly, to miss a monthly win because you misworded a message.

DIS: Re: BUS: Loss of privileges

2008-09-30 Thread comex
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 7:26 PM, Kerim Aydin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i. Every person has the right, though not necessarily the ability, to perform actions that are not prohibited or regulated by the Rules, with the sole exception of changing the Rules, which is

DIS: Re: BUS: Loss of privileges

2008-09-30 Thread Ed Murphy
Goethe wrote: i. Every person has the right, though not necessarily the ability, to perform actions that are not prohibited or regulated by the Rules, with the sole exception of changing the Rules, which is permitted only when the Rules explicitly

DIS: Re: BUS: How to win by bribery

2008-09-30 Thread Ed Murphy
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Proposal 5707 has been adopted, awarding a win to ais523. Therefore, by rule 2188, ais523 satisfies the Winning Condition of Legislation. Therefore, by rule 2186, as ais523 satisfies a Winning Condition but no Losing Conditions, ais523 wins. I need to check the exact

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5708-5726

2008-09-30 Thread Ed Murphy
ais523 wrote: On Mon, 2008-09-29 at 23:44 -0700, Ed Murphy wrote: The PerlNomic Partnership wrote: 5725 D 1 2.0 Murphy Namespace conflicts (players) This was INVALID by R107(e) (and I have been discarding votes on it accordingly). In case the PNP has technical difficulty

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bayes

2008-09-30 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Tue, 30 Sep 2008, comex wrote: On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:30 PM, Ian Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 6:15 PM, comex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 3. bayes.py is a script whose purpose is to act on behalf of Bayes in a generally autonomous way, controlled by the parties to

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5727-5730

2008-09-30 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Tue, 30 Sep 2008, Ben Caplan wrote: 5731 D 0 3.0 Goethe Loss of Privileges AGAINST. Still feels rough around the edges. How can something be rough that was part of Agora for at least 10 years? -G.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: How to win by bribery

2008-09-30 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Tue, 30 Sep 2008, Ed Murphy wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Proposal 5707 has been adopted, awarding a win to ais523. Therefore, by rule 2188, ais523 satisfies the Winning Condition of Legislation. Therefore, by rule 2186, as ais523 satisfies a Winning Condition but no Losing Conditions,

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5727-5730

2008-09-30 Thread Ben Caplan
On Tuesday 30 September 2008 10:53:00 pm Kerim Aydin wrote: On Tue, 30 Sep 2008, Ben Caplan wrote: 5731 D 0 3.0 Goethe Loss of Privileges AGAINST. Still feels rough around the edges. How can something be rough that was part of Agora for at least 10 years? -G. If the fitted

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Loss of privileges

2008-09-30 Thread Ian Kelly
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Kerim Aydin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i. Every person has the right, though not necessarily the ability, to perform actions that are not prohibited or regulated by the Rules, with the sole exception of changing the Rules, which is

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bayes

2008-09-30 Thread Ian Kelly
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:27 PM, comex [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: although it's mostly ehird's code. While I don't think it's going to try being the CotC anytime soon, it has a highly interesting method of voting on proposals. Can you guess what it is? It categorizes adopted proposals as spam,

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Distribution of proposals 5727-5730

2008-09-30 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Tue, 30 Sep 2008, Ben Caplan wrote: On Tuesday 30 September 2008 10:53:00 pm Kerim Aydin wrote: On Tue, 30 Sep 2008, Ben Caplan wrote: 5731 D 0 3.0 Goethe Loss of Privileges AGAINST. Still feels rough around the edges. How can something be rough that was part of Agora for