Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Encouraging Democracy Through Capitalism or Who Pays Subs Full Wages Anyway

2019-10-28 Thread Nch via agora-discussion
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Monday, October 28, 2019 6:58 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > On 10/28/2019 3:27 PM, Nch via agora-discussion wrote: > > > Cons > > > > - > > > > -Soft-locks newer players out of writing proposals. They're likely to write > > duds that won't pass for a whil

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Encouraging Democracy Through Capitalism or Who Pays Subs Full Wages Anyway

2019-10-28 Thread Nch via agora-discussion
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Monday, October 28, 2019 7:04 PM, ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk wrote: > On Mon, 2019-10-28 at 16:58 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > On 10/28/2019 3:27 PM, Nch via agora-discussion wrote: > > > > > Cons > > > > > > - > > > > > > -Soft-locks newer players out of

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Encouraging Democracy Through Capitalism or Who Pays Subs Full Wages Anyway

2019-10-28 Thread ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk
On Mon, 2019-10-28 at 16:58 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote: > On 10/28/2019 3:27 PM, Nch via agora-discussion wrote: > > Cons > > > > -Soft-locks newer players out of writing proposals. They're likely > > to write duds that won't pass for a while and this punishes them > > for that > > This in part

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Encouraging Democracy Through Capitalism or Who Pays Subs Full Wages Anyway

2019-10-28 Thread Kerim Aydin
On 10/28/2019 3:27 PM, Nch via agora-discussion wrote: Cons -Soft-locks newer players out of writing proposals. They're likely to write duds that won't pass for a while and this punishes them for that This in particular was solved (in one implementation) by making it cheaper for new pla

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Encouraging Democracy Through Capitalism or Who Pays Subs Full Wages Anyway

2019-10-28 Thread Kerim Aydin
Oh that's right! I had that script I mentioned below spit out a version in XML format and played with it for a bit but I never used it much. I think omd, who did a stint before me, had a YAML version too. On 10/28/2019 4:42 PM, Gaelan Steele wrote: Ah. You mentioned something about having th

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Encouraging Democracy Through Capitalism or Who Pays Subs Full Wages Anyway

2019-10-28 Thread Gaelan Steele
Ah. You mentioned something about having the ruleset in XML (of course, you mentioned that right after I parsed everything…), and I assumed that was part of some automation. Gaelan > On Oct 28, 2019, at 4:17 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > On 10/28/2019 3:06 PM, Gaelan Steele wrote: >> Heh, it’

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Encouraging Democracy Through Capitalism or Who Pays Subs Full Wages Anyway

2019-10-28 Thread Kerim Aydin
On 10/28/2019 3:06 PM, Gaelan Steele wrote: Heh, it’s pretty standard. It happened with Rulekeepor too: G had some some sort of ruleset automation, which to be fair wasn’t public. I parsed his FLR into YAML and wrote the new code in Ruby. Alexis kept the YAML format and rewrote the code in Ha

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Encouraging Democracy Through Capitalism or Who Pays Subs Full Wages Anyway

2019-10-28 Thread Nch via agora-discussion
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Monday, October 28, 2019 4:31 PM, Jason Cobb wrote: > On 10/28/19 5:20 PM, James Cook wrote: > > > I am more interested right now in seeing more things to spend Coins > > on; the Coin balances are starting to feel like meaningless numbers. > > There was some di

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Encouraging Democracy Through Capitalism or Who Pays Subs Full Wages Anyway

2019-10-28 Thread Gaelan Steele
Heh, it’s pretty standard. It happened with Rulekeepor too: G had some some sort of ruleset automation, which to be fair wasn’t public. I parsed his FLR into YAML and wrote the new code in Ruby. Alexis kept the YAML format and rewrote the code in Haskell, of all things. Trigon kept the YAML, bu

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Encouraging Democracy Through Capitalism or Who Pays Subs Full Wages Anyway

2019-10-28 Thread Jason Cobb
On 10/28/19 5:20 PM, James Cook wrote: I am more interested right now in seeing more things to spend Coins on; the Coin balances are starting to feel like meaningless numbers. There was some discussion in September about times in the past where there were shortages, e.g. proposals were expensive.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Encouraging Democracy Through Capitalism or Who Pays Subs Full Wages Anyway

2019-10-28 Thread James Cook
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 at 01:51, Gaelan Steele wrote: > That’s a very interesting point, and one that I hadn’t considered. One > possibility would be to have a few days at the beginning of each week in > which only the person with the top reward (i.e. the “main” officeholder). > This would help in

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Encouraging Democracy Through Capitalism or Who Pays Subs Full Wages Anyway

2019-10-28 Thread James Cook
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 at 01:43, Aris Merchant wrote: > This has been proposed before, IIRC, and consensus is against it for > two reasons (it’s possible I’m misremembering here, but all the > concerns are valid regardless). Firstly, many official duties are > essential to the game, and having them a

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Encouraging Democracy Through Capitalism or Who Pays Subs Full Wages Anyway

2019-10-28 Thread James Cook
On Sun, 27 Oct 2019 at 01:38, Nch wrote: > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > On Saturday, October 26, 2019 7:31 PM, James Cook > wrote: > > > On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 at 15:23, Gaelan Steele g...@canishe.com wrote: > > > > > To be honest, I’m not sure I see the point. In my experience interim > >

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Encouraging Democracy Through Capitalism or Who Pays Subs Full Wages Anyway

2019-10-26 Thread Gaelan Steele
That’s a very interesting point, and one that I hadn’t considered. One possibility would be to have a few days at the beginning of each week in which only the person with the top reward (i.e. the “main” officeholder). This would help in the most common cases, but maybe would still discourage sha

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Encouraging Democracy Through Capitalism or Who Pays Subs Full Wages Anyway

2019-10-26 Thread Aris Merchant
This has been proposed before, IIRC, and consensus is against it for two reasons (it’s possible I’m misremembering here, but all the concerns are valid regardless). Firstly, many official duties are essential to the game, and having them assigned to the same person promotes accountability, since th

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Encouraging Democracy Through Capitalism or Who Pays Subs Full Wages Anyway

2019-10-26 Thread Nch
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Saturday, October 26, 2019 7:31 PM, James Cook wrote: > On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 at 15:23, Gaelan Steele g...@canishe.com wrote: > > > To be honest, I’m not sure I see the point. In my experience interim > > incumbents nearly always win elections, and most modern A

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Encouraging Democracy Through Capitalism or Who Pays Subs Full Wages Anyway

2019-10-26 Thread Nch
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Saturday, October 26, 2019 7:53 PM, Gaelan Steele wrote: > > TL;DR: No “officeholders”; anyone can do a job if it hasn’t been done yet > that {week,month}. They get paid for doing so, and get paid more if they’ve > been doing it consistently or if it’s be

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Encouraging Democracy Through Capitalism or Who Pays Subs Full Wages Anyway

2019-10-26 Thread Jason Cobb
On 10/26/19 8:53 PM, Gaelan Steele wrote: TL;DR: No “officeholders”; anyone can do a job if it hasn’t been done yet that {week,month}. They get paid for doing so, and get paid more if they’ve been doing it consistently or if it’s been overdue for a while. This is an interesting idea - but I t

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Encouraging Democracy Through Capitalism or Who Pays Subs Full Wages Anyway

2019-10-26 Thread Gaelan Steele
I’ve had a proposal for an alternative “duty” (name TBD) bouncing around for a while. It goes something like this: * Most offices (basically, all but the imposed ones and the ones that handle secret information) get replaced with “duties.” * Anyone can fulfill a duty (i.e. publish the report, u

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Encouraging Democracy Through Capitalism or Who Pays Subs Full Wages Anyway

2019-10-26 Thread James Cook
On Sat, 26 Oct 2019 at 15:23, Gaelan Steele wrote: > To be honest, I’m not sure I see the point. In my experience interim > incumbents nearly always win elections, and most modern Agoran offices have > very little power anyway. All I really see this doing is punishing those who > take up work t

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Encouraging Democracy Through Capitalism or Who Pays Subs Full Wages Anyway

2019-10-26 Thread Kerim Aydin
On 10/26/2019 8:28 AM, Nch wrote: ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Saturday, October 26, 2019 10:22 AM, Gaelan Steele wrote: To be honest, I’m not sure I see the point. In my experience interim incumbents nearly always win elections, and most modern Agoran offices have very little power

DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Encouraging Democracy Through Capitalism or Who Pays Subs Full Wages Anyway

2019-10-26 Thread Nch
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Saturday, October 26, 2019 10:22 AM, Gaelan Steele wrote: > To be honest, I’m not sure I see the point. In my experience interim > incumbents nearly always win elections, and most modern Agoran offices have > very little power anyway. All I really see this do

DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal: Encouraging Democracy Through Capitalism or Who Pays Subs Full Wages Anyway

2019-10-26 Thread Gaelan Steele
To be honest, I’m not sure I see the point. In my experience interim incumbents nearly always win elections, and most modern Agoran offices have very little power anyway. All I really see this doing is punishing those who take up work that’s not being done. Gaelan > On Oct 26, 2019, at 5:43 A