Re: DIS: missing an ACORN [attn. Aris]

2018-07-05 Thread Aris Merchant
I didn't think about that problem, as I didn't read the previous sentence carefully enough. I still think it works, because to "initiate a sanctioned tournament with a specified, finalized set of regulations, Without 3 Objections" pretty clearly means that the proposed regulations become

Email again (Re: BUS: Re: DIS: [Promotor] Draft)

2018-07-05 Thread Ørjan Johansen
*Sigh* I hadn't seen that previous message. Apparently my email from the lists was disabled because of bounces around July 1, and messages from a-o and a-b only started arriving again today. a-d was still disabled when I checked on the web. I just thought you were being really quiet... Given

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Free Proposals

2018-07-05 Thread ATMunn
You have my support, anyway. On 7/5/2018 2:59 AM, Aris Merchant wrote: Unless a consensus forms one way or the other, I'll implement your paper removal suggestion in a separate proposal contingent on this one passing. As for the economic argument, I disagree, for reasons I really should have

Re: DIS: RfC: Reform, Repeal, or Replacement

2018-07-05 Thread Aris Merchant
On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 5:21 PM Aris Merchant wrote: > > Okay. We all agree that the land system has problems. What we don't > seem to agree on is how to fix them. I invite proposals. In a week, I > will run an instant runoff vote of every option proposed. Doing > nothing will be an option. At the

DIS: RfC: Reform, Repeal, or Replacement

2018-07-05 Thread Aris Merchant
Okay. We all agree that the land system has problems. What we don't seem to agree on is how to fix them. I invite proposals. In a week, I will run an instant runoff vote of every option proposed. Doing nothing will be an option. At the end of that decision, I will request that all players vote for

Re: DIS: missing an ACORN [attn. Aris]

2018-07-05 Thread Kerim Aydin
But if Sentence 1 "fails completely" can I promulgate those regulations in the first place using this method? On Thu, 5 Jul 2018, Aris Merchant wrote: > Whoops. Sorry, I missed those in my proposals. Free Tournaments are > just plain broken, because, as you say the rules require an officer. >

Re: DIS: missing an ACORN [attn. Aris]

2018-07-05 Thread Aris Merchant
Whoops. Sorry, I missed those in my proposals. Free Tournaments are just plain broken, because, as you say the rules require an officer. The birthday tournament should still work though. The dubious section is "By doing so e promulgates those regulations as a special temporary title of the ACORN.

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8058-8065

2018-07-05 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Fri, 6 Jul 2018, Rebecca wrote: > >>If P8062 is REJECTED, FOR; otherwise AGAINST. > > These conditionals do not work because these are evaluated at the end of > the voting period, which is before the resolution of proposals. Some language used in the past was "If the outcome of this would

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8058-8065

2018-07-05 Thread Reuben Staley
You sure can if you think this one doesn't have a chance of passing. On 07/05/2018 05:22 PM, Aris Merchant wrote: Trigon, do you want to write up a modified proposal on that basis? If not, I'll write something up for the next distribution, which may be soon. -Aris On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 4:21

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8058-8065

2018-07-05 Thread Aris Merchant
Trigon, do you want to write up a modified proposal on that basis? If not, I'll write something up for the next distribution, which may be soon. -Aris On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 4:21 PM Rebecca wrote: > > We fundamentally should not entirely repeal our current official currency > until there is a

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8058-8065

2018-07-05 Thread Rebecca
We fundamentally should not entirely repeal our current official currency until there is a new one. The vestiges of land should go. But coins and paydays should stay as a stopgap, at least. On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 9:17 AM, Reuben Staley wrote: > On 07/05/2018 05:10 PM, Rebecca wrote: > >> 8062*

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8058-8065

2018-07-05 Thread Reuben Staley
On 07/05/2018 05:10 PM, Rebecca wrote: 8062* Trigon 3.0 The End of the World, Again Trigon AGAINST (zombies are not broken and very fun, as are auctions. this is too sweeping. land repeal is fine). And how do you propose we do auctions if repealing land gets rid of all our

DIS: missing an ACORN [attn. Aris]

2018-07-05 Thread Kerim Aydin
So the Tournament rules still reference the ACORN. Further, the new definition of Regulations requires an Officer while Free Tournaments implies that no officer is needed for that kind of Tournament. Aris, can you give a read of the tournament rules w.r.t. the new Regulations rule and

DIS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8058-8065

2018-07-05 Thread Rebecca
I vote as follows 8058* V.J. Rada 1.0 Medal of Honour Auctions V.J. Rada FOR 8059* G. 1.0 honour is its own reward G. AGAINST 8060* V.J. Rada 1.8 Notary-B-Gone V.J. Rada FOR 8061+ Aris 1.0 Free Proposals

Re: DIS: Draft contract for playing chess on the map

2018-07-05 Thread Reuben Staley
The map is going to be repealed soon. Also if it wasn't, there's still only two dimensions on it. On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, 14:52 David Nicol wrote: > You seem to have limited your board to two dimensions, which might be by > design instead of oversight. On the other hand, Agora Lands are probably >

Re: DIS: Draft contract for playing chess on the map

2018-07-05 Thread David Nicol
You seem to have limited your board to two dimensions, which might be by design instead of oversight. On the other hand, Agora Lands are probably 2D. see http://tipjar.com/games/CHESS/FullBoardStrongKnights.html which was of course inspired by FRC round 256, which involved playing chess in a

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land Auctions for July week 1

2018-07-05 Thread Aris Merchant
On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 12:16 PM Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > On Thu, 5 Jul 2018, Aris Merchant wrote: > > I'd suggest we make proposals free, drop zombies, and go back to the one > > blot per week removal scheme. Then we enact another enconomy, and see if > > the zombies are not so OP in that

DIS: Re: BUS: The End of the World, Again

2018-07-05 Thread Aris Merchant
On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 1:36 PM Kerim Aydin wrote: > > O > On Thu, 5 Jul 2018, Reuben Staley wrote: > > And there came a day when the Agoran people could do nothing but watch > as the > > world fell apart around them. All manner of disasters, natural or > otherwise, > > ravaged the world and

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land Auctions for July week 1

2018-07-05 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Thu, 5 Jul 2018, Aris Merchant wrote: > I'd suggest we make proposals free, drop zombies, and go back to the one > blot per week removal scheme. Then we enact another enconomy, and see if > the zombies are not so OP in that system. How are they OP since the reforms?

DIS: Re: BUS: [FRC] Decorum

2018-07-05 Thread Kerim Aydin
[I'm going to send my initial judgement to Discussion each time to keep chatter in BUS down - will finalize in BUS ~once a day.] The Court finds this VALID and instructs the Clerk to number it FRC-1. Fits the style - be it hereby noted that this is granted +1 Style as a baseline for future

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land Auctions for July week 1

2018-07-05 Thread Aris Merchant
I'd suggest we make proposals free, drop zombies, and go back to the one blot per week removal scheme. Then we enact another enconomy, and see if the zombies are not so OP in that system. -Aris On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 12:02 PM Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > The "replacement" should be independent and

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land Auctions for July week 1

2018-07-05 Thread Kerim Aydin
The "replacement" should be independent and after the repeal (not that discussing it is bad but that should be wholly separate). Trying to do a "bridge" from shinies to Land was one of the places where compromises bogged down the start. OTOH, are we talking about getting rid of zombies too?

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land Auctions for July week 1

2018-07-05 Thread Aris Merchant
Sure. It just doesn't feel great to repeal something you've worked hard on. What should we replace it with? I'd like to see my pending system as a part of the repeal. Other than that... maybe re adopt the Alexis's Party system? We all agreed that it was fun to play, apart from some bugs, which

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land Auctions for July week 1

2018-07-05 Thread Reuben Staley
If it's worth anything, I don't blame you for this mechanic failing. On 7/5/2018 12:48 PM, Corona wrote: I was the one to advocate early release with bugs fixed through playtesting, and I'm guilty of abandoning my reform plans too, I'm sorry. An important point I'd like to make (for future

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land Auctions for July week 1

2018-07-05 Thread Kerim Aydin
If you're in the mood for a farm/grind game, these rules fun to play once you have 4+ reasonably contiguous land units to get some production going, some currency still (you didn't go broke getting those land units), and when reports are very strictly up-to-date. Trying to get to that point

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land Auctions for July week 1

2018-07-05 Thread Corona
I was the one to advocate early release with bugs fixed through playtesting, and I'm guilty of abandoning my reform plans too, I'm sorry. An important point I'd like to make (for future economies if the current one can't be salvaged): I'm not sure where I read it anymore, but Agora is supposed to

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land Auctions for July week 1

2018-07-05 Thread Reuben Staley
It's okay. I was a newer player, in over my head, who didn't have a great grasp of Agoran language, who would turn out to be a bad officer. But it was an interesting mechanic for a while. And thanks for offering to write up the repeal proposal, but I think it would only be appropriate that I

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land Auctions for July week 1

2018-07-05 Thread Aris Merchant
I hate to do this, but I'm going to write up a full repeal. They're interesting mechanics, but they just don't seem to be much fun to play. I have a feeling that the problems are systemic enough that no amount of tweaking will actually fix them. I'm sorry. I know you worked hard on this. -Aris

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land Auctions for July week 1

2018-07-05 Thread Kerim Aydin
I think, as buggy as some of these steps have been, just as big an issue is dealing with Agoran engagement: "Design a board game for 6 people, but make it so that half the people can say 'pass' on their turns for the first 5 turns and still be competitive with people who don't pass... oh, and

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land Auctions for July week 1

2018-07-05 Thread Reuben Staley
If we want to "fix" Arcadia, we need to figure out what the underlying issues are. So what /are/ the issues with these mechanics? I did not take zombies into consideration when writing up the original PAoaM proposal. Zombies provided a cheap way to get double your monthly income when I wanted

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land Auctions for July week 1

2018-07-05 Thread Kerim Aydin
Eh, mark me as someone who would be burned out. It took - hmm, a few months play, a coin/corn bug, and a big payroll from zombies to open up the board (for everyone) and get some land enough to get to this point. At this point - with several land - I'm starting to get into the worker

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land Auctions for July week 1

2018-07-05 Thread Timon Walshe-Grey
I actually think it would be more frustrating to carry out the reforms _without_ a reset, because the reforms might ruin plans people had been forming or make their previous facility setup suboptimal. Someone (I think it was G.?) said a few days ago that e'd stop playing if the reforms passed.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land Auctions for July week 1

2018-07-05 Thread Reuben Staley
Reply-to is the worst. On 07/05/2018 10:33 AM, Reuben Staley wrote: As in resetting the map and giving everyone a welcome-package-sized amount of resources and making a little spawn island? It might work, considering that that reform plan was supposed to fix balancing issues. But also I think

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land Auctions for July week 1

2018-07-05 Thread Corona
​What about just resetting the economy (to the same state as when it was enacted) while implementing Trigon's planned reforms? ~Corona On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 4:44 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > And yeah, not to do with paper, but on the Coins side I'm done > here. > I'll support a full

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land Auctions for July week 1

2018-07-05 Thread Kerim Aydin
And yeah, not to do with paper, but on the Coins side I'm done here. I'll support a full repeal of this mess. Restraint is not something that everyone does well. On Thu, 5 Jul 2018, Corona wrote: > I bid 32 coins in auction 1. > I bid 34 coins in auction 5. > > ~Corona > > On Mon,

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Free Proposals

2018-07-05 Thread Kerim Aydin
The fact is, there is such a glut of paper that no one who is "playing" the minigame is bothering to try to produce it. It's not a barrier. It is, as you say, a "stop and think" barrier. That's a good thing. And it's not a requirement to "play" given that no one is using the paper to

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Free Proposals

2018-07-05 Thread Aris Merchant
Perhaps we shouldn't have an "economy". Perhaps we should have a mini-game that people play because they enjoy it. I don't see terribly many people actively participating in the economy because they want paper. At same time, I do see paper making the main game less fun for players. If the economy

DIS: [Promotor] Draft

2018-07-05 Thread Aris Merchant
Here's a draft. Attn. G. and twg: you have proposals you may wish to pend. -Aris --- I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the quorum is 5.0

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Free Proposals

2018-07-05 Thread Rebecca
No, the economy shouldn't be optional. The only way to encourage engagement with it is to make it unoptional in some way, which it really isn't now. CFJs should always be free. Proposals can and should be interacted with. Paper is a super feels-bad unfun way to do it. Better, though, than nothing.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Free Proposals

2018-07-05 Thread Aris Merchant
Unless a consensus forms one way or the other, I'll implement your paper removal suggestion in a separate proposal contingent on this one passing. As for the economic argument, I disagree, for reasons I really should have spelled out when submitting the proposal. The problem isn't that people

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Free Proposals

2018-07-05 Thread Corona
Leaving the paper framework for a possible repurposing seems like a better idea to me. Nobody would make paper while it would be useless, so the economy would not be affected. ~Corona On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 8:20 AM, Reuben Staley wrote: > This would be fine but it completely nullifies paper. A

DIS: Re: BUS: Free Proposals

2018-07-05 Thread Corona
The majority of people are not in danger of running out of paper, but sure, I'll support this. Paper _is_ rather difficult to manufacture, requiring two land units with facilities (orchard+mill), preferably also a third one (mine) for sustainability. ~Corona On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 7:57 AM, Aris

DIS: Re: BUS: Free Proposals

2018-07-05 Thread Reuben Staley
This would be fine but it completely nullifies paper. A better way to do this while preserving the economy would be to get rid of paper and looms then add lumber to the list of unrefinable resources. Also, everyone gets paper once a month so participation in the economy is completely optional