Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Contract (Designating reportor)

2017-11-12 Thread Aris Merchant
It definitely shouldn't permit outsourcing. I would not want to allow
a contract that allows for someone to deregister a player, or to start
a festival. However, the protection of official actions has probably
outlived its usefulness. Proto (also fixes an unrelated typo):

Title: Contract Flexibility Act
Adoption index: 2.6
Author: Aris
Co-author(s): V.J. Rada

Amend Rule 2525, Interpreting Contracts, by:

  Removing item 6 of the numbered list and renumbering appropriately; and
  Changing the phrase "failing protected action" to read "failing to preform
  a protected action".

-Aris

On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 7:28 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> However, I did note and comment against that clause when voting on
> Contracts, yes. If necessary, we should trim protected actions.
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 2:28 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:
>> ...Yes, that was the CFJ I was thinking of haha. Relevant text is
>> "Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, a contract CANNOT compel,
>> forbid, or in any significant way alter, tamper with, or modify the
>> performance of a protected action", which I believe is rather
>> ambiguous and should be read narrowly to prevent serious tampering or
>> modification rather than simple outsourcing.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Aris Merchant
>>  wrote:
>>> Won't work, due to my excessive paranoia. See the list of protected
>>> actions, item 6.
>>>
>>> -Aris
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 7:21 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:
 I become a party to the below contract
 (I may have a CFJ regarding it at some point, because it's me, of course).


 On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 2:12 PM, Josh T  wrote:
> Since I'll be busy and apparently was remiss in doing things in the
> upstanding Agoran fashion, on suggestion I am going to make the following
> contract, titled "Reporting Agency", and paying the shiny to do so:
> {{{
> The player 天火狐 is the proprietor of the Reporting Agency. This contract
> recognizes one of it's non-proprietors as its Agent. If no party is
> currently recognized the Agent, this contract immediately selects the 
> first
> party eligible based on the order in which they became a party to this
> contract.
>
> 天火狐 and VJ Rada can become a party to this contract by announcement. Any
> person can become a party to this contract by announcement starting Nov.
> 15, 2017. A party who is not the proprietor may cease to be a party to 
> this
> contract by announcement.
>
> The proprietor can make amendments to this contract by announcement with 
> 48
> hours notice. The proprietor can remove a party from this contract by
> announcement. A party to this contract can make an announcement to to
> attempt to remove the Agent; if two other parties to this contract 
> announce
> support for the attempt, the Agent is removed from the contract.
>
> If the Agent wishes to resign (i.e. no longer wishes to be the Agent), 
> they
> must no longer be a party to this contract. When making the announcement 
> to
> do so, they may optionally select a non-proprietor party. If they choose 
> to
> do so, that party becomes the next Agent instead.
>
> The Agent of this contract, while the proprietor is the Reportor, is
> empowered to publish Reportor reports on eir behalf, The Agent is also
> allowed to collect any and all rewards related to the report that the 
> Agent
> is publishing on behalf of the proprietor, and if necessary, effect the
> transfer of that reward to the Agent (by announcement, using this contract
> as a proxy if necessary). In addition, if this contract does not possess a
> Shiny but the proprietor does, and if the Notary has announced intent to
> destroy this contract due to non-payment of its upkeep, the Agent can, by
> announcement, cause the proprietor to transfer one of eir shinies to this
> contract.
> }}}
>
> I become a party to the contract "Reporting Agency".
>
> I transfer 1 Shiny to the contract "Reporting Agency"
>
> 天火狐



 --
 From V.J. Rada
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From V.J. Rada
>
>
>
> --
> From V.J. Rada


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Contract (Designating reportor)

2017-11-12 Thread Josh T
I need to keep an eye out for the Occult Hand anyway so I will be checking
my email so this is hopefully functionally equivalent. I did write
everything in half an hour, so...

天火狐

On 12 November 2017 at 22:36, Josh T  wrote:

> This text may also be worthy of a CFJ.
>
> I give 48 hours notice to amend the last paragraph of "Reporting Agency"
> to read in its entirety as follows:
> {{{
> The Agent of this contract, while the proprietor is the Reportor, may
> announce that they are "acting as the Agent of the Reportor" and publish a
> document. If they do so, the proprietor SHALL endorse the document in such
> a way that it counts as the official Reportor report (up to and including
> reposting the report) for the time period and collect any currency rewards
> for the report, which they SHALL give the Agent. The proprietor shall
> also treat any direct communication which would, if posted to a public
> forum, amount to the aforementioned action as the action in question. In
> addition, if this contract does not possess a Shiny but the proprietor
> does, and if the Notary has announced intent to destroy this contract due
> to non-payment of its upkeep, the Agent can, by announcement, cause the
> proprietor to transfer one of eir shinies to this contract. If the
> proprietor fails to do so, e is responsible of reimbursing the Agent the
> shiny value of the rewards lost.
> }}}
>
> 天火狐
>
>
>
>
> On 12 November 2017 at 22:24, Aris Merchant  gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Won't work, due to my excessive paranoia. See the list of protected
>> actions, item 6.
>>
>> -Aris
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 7:21 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:
>> > I become a party to the below contract
>> > (I may have a CFJ regarding it at some point, because it's me, of
>> course).
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 2:12 PM, Josh T 
>> wrote:
>> >> Since I'll be busy and apparently was remiss in doing things in the
>> >> upstanding Agoran fashion, on suggestion I am going to make the
>> following
>> >> contract, titled "Reporting Agency", and paying the shiny to do so:
>> >> {{{
>> >> The player 天火狐 is the proprietor of the Reporting Agency. This contract
>> >> recognizes one of it's non-proprietors as its Agent. If no party is
>> >> currently recognized the Agent, this contract immediately selects the
>> first
>> >> party eligible based on the order in which they became a party to this
>> >> contract.
>> >>
>> >> 天火狐 and VJ Rada can become a party to this contract by announcement.
>> Any
>> >> person can become a party to this contract by announcement starting
>> Nov.
>> >> 15, 2017. A party who is not the proprietor may cease to be a party to
>> this
>> >> contract by announcement.
>> >>
>> >> The proprietor can make amendments to this contract by announcement
>> with 48
>> >> hours notice. The proprietor can remove a party from this contract by
>> >> announcement. A party to this contract can make an announcement to to
>> >> attempt to remove the Agent; if two other parties to this contract
>> announce
>> >> support for the attempt, the Agent is removed from the contract.
>> >>
>> >> If the Agent wishes to resign (i.e. no longer wishes to be the Agent),
>> they
>> >> must no longer be a party to this contract. When making the
>> announcement to
>> >> do so, they may optionally select a non-proprietor party. If they
>> choose to
>> >> do so, that party becomes the next Agent instead.
>> >>
>> >> The Agent of this contract, while the proprietor is the Reportor, is
>> >> empowered to publish Reportor reports on eir behalf, The Agent is also
>> >> allowed to collect any and all rewards related to the report that the
>> Agent
>> >> is publishing on behalf of the proprietor, and if necessary, effect the
>> >> transfer of that reward to the Agent (by announcement, using this
>> contract
>> >> as a proxy if necessary). In addition, if this contract does not
>> possess a
>> >> Shiny but the proprietor does, and if the Notary has announced intent
>> to
>> >> destroy this contract due to non-payment of its upkeep, the Agent can,
>> by
>> >> announcement, cause the proprietor to transfer one of eir shinies to
>> this
>> >> contract.
>> >> }}}
>> >>
>> >> I become a party to the contract "Reporting Agency".
>> >>
>> >> I transfer 1 Shiny to the contract "Reporting Agency"
>> >>
>> >> 天火狐
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > From V.J. Rada
>>
>
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Contract (Designating reportor)

2017-11-12 Thread VJ Rada
However, I did note and comment against that clause when voting on
Contracts, yes. If necessary, we should trim protected actions.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 2:28 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> ...Yes, that was the CFJ I was thinking of haha. Relevant text is
> "Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, a contract CANNOT compel,
> forbid, or in any significant way alter, tamper with, or modify the
> performance of a protected action", which I believe is rather
> ambiguous and should be read narrowly to prevent serious tampering or
> modification rather than simple outsourcing.
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Aris Merchant
>  wrote:
>> Won't work, due to my excessive paranoia. See the list of protected
>> actions, item 6.
>>
>> -Aris
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 7:21 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:
>>> I become a party to the below contract
>>> (I may have a CFJ regarding it at some point, because it's me, of course).
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 2:12 PM, Josh T  wrote:
 Since I'll be busy and apparently was remiss in doing things in the
 upstanding Agoran fashion, on suggestion I am going to make the following
 contract, titled "Reporting Agency", and paying the shiny to do so:
 {{{
 The player 天火狐 is the proprietor of the Reporting Agency. This contract
 recognizes one of it's non-proprietors as its Agent. If no party is
 currently recognized the Agent, this contract immediately selects the first
 party eligible based on the order in which they became a party to this
 contract.

 天火狐 and VJ Rada can become a party to this contract by announcement. Any
 person can become a party to this contract by announcement starting Nov.
 15, 2017. A party who is not the proprietor may cease to be a party to this
 contract by announcement.

 The proprietor can make amendments to this contract by announcement with 48
 hours notice. The proprietor can remove a party from this contract by
 announcement. A party to this contract can make an announcement to to
 attempt to remove the Agent; if two other parties to this contract announce
 support for the attempt, the Agent is removed from the contract.

 If the Agent wishes to resign (i.e. no longer wishes to be the Agent), they
 must no longer be a party to this contract. When making the announcement to
 do so, they may optionally select a non-proprietor party. If they choose to
 do so, that party becomes the next Agent instead.

 The Agent of this contract, while the proprietor is the Reportor, is
 empowered to publish Reportor reports on eir behalf, The Agent is also
 allowed to collect any and all rewards related to the report that the Agent
 is publishing on behalf of the proprietor, and if necessary, effect the
 transfer of that reward to the Agent (by announcement, using this contract
 as a proxy if necessary). In addition, if this contract does not possess a
 Shiny but the proprietor does, and if the Notary has announced intent to
 destroy this contract due to non-payment of its upkeep, the Agent can, by
 announcement, cause the proprietor to transfer one of eir shinies to this
 contract.
 }}}

 I become a party to the contract "Reporting Agency".

 I transfer 1 Shiny to the contract "Reporting Agency"

 天火狐
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> From V.J. Rada
>
>
>
> --
> From V.J. Rada



-- 
>From V.J. Rada


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Contract (Designating reportor)

2017-11-12 Thread VJ Rada
...Yes, that was the CFJ I was thinking of haha. Relevant text is
"Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, a contract CANNOT compel,
forbid, or in any significant way alter, tamper with, or modify the
performance of a protected action", which I believe is rather
ambiguous and should be read narrowly to prevent serious tampering or
modification rather than simple outsourcing.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Aris Merchant
 wrote:
> Won't work, due to my excessive paranoia. See the list of protected
> actions, item 6.
>
> -Aris
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 7:21 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:
>> I become a party to the below contract
>> (I may have a CFJ regarding it at some point, because it's me, of course).
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 2:12 PM, Josh T  wrote:
>>> Since I'll be busy and apparently was remiss in doing things in the
>>> upstanding Agoran fashion, on suggestion I am going to make the following
>>> contract, titled "Reporting Agency", and paying the shiny to do so:
>>> {{{
>>> The player 天火狐 is the proprietor of the Reporting Agency. This contract
>>> recognizes one of it's non-proprietors as its Agent. If no party is
>>> currently recognized the Agent, this contract immediately selects the first
>>> party eligible based on the order in which they became a party to this
>>> contract.
>>>
>>> 天火狐 and VJ Rada can become a party to this contract by announcement. Any
>>> person can become a party to this contract by announcement starting Nov.
>>> 15, 2017. A party who is not the proprietor may cease to be a party to this
>>> contract by announcement.
>>>
>>> The proprietor can make amendments to this contract by announcement with 48
>>> hours notice. The proprietor can remove a party from this contract by
>>> announcement. A party to this contract can make an announcement to to
>>> attempt to remove the Agent; if two other parties to this contract announce
>>> support for the attempt, the Agent is removed from the contract.
>>>
>>> If the Agent wishes to resign (i.e. no longer wishes to be the Agent), they
>>> must no longer be a party to this contract. When making the announcement to
>>> do so, they may optionally select a non-proprietor party. If they choose to
>>> do so, that party becomes the next Agent instead.
>>>
>>> The Agent of this contract, while the proprietor is the Reportor, is
>>> empowered to publish Reportor reports on eir behalf, The Agent is also
>>> allowed to collect any and all rewards related to the report that the Agent
>>> is publishing on behalf of the proprietor, and if necessary, effect the
>>> transfer of that reward to the Agent (by announcement, using this contract
>>> as a proxy if necessary). In addition, if this contract does not possess a
>>> Shiny but the proprietor does, and if the Notary has announced intent to
>>> destroy this contract due to non-payment of its upkeep, the Agent can, by
>>> announcement, cause the proprietor to transfer one of eir shinies to this
>>> contract.
>>> }}}
>>>
>>> I become a party to the contract "Reporting Agency".
>>>
>>> I transfer 1 Shiny to the contract "Reporting Agency"
>>>
>>> 天火狐
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From V.J. Rada



-- 
>From V.J. Rada


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Contract (Designating reportor)

2017-11-12 Thread Aris Merchant
Won't work, due to my excessive paranoia. See the list of protected
actions, item 6.

-Aris

On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 7:21 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> I become a party to the below contract
> (I may have a CFJ regarding it at some point, because it's me, of course).
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 2:12 PM, Josh T  wrote:
>> Since I'll be busy and apparently was remiss in doing things in the
>> upstanding Agoran fashion, on suggestion I am going to make the following
>> contract, titled "Reporting Agency", and paying the shiny to do so:
>> {{{
>> The player 天火狐 is the proprietor of the Reporting Agency. This contract
>> recognizes one of it's non-proprietors as its Agent. If no party is
>> currently recognized the Agent, this contract immediately selects the first
>> party eligible based on the order in which they became a party to this
>> contract.
>>
>> 天火狐 and VJ Rada can become a party to this contract by announcement. Any
>> person can become a party to this contract by announcement starting Nov.
>> 15, 2017. A party who is not the proprietor may cease to be a party to this
>> contract by announcement.
>>
>> The proprietor can make amendments to this contract by announcement with 48
>> hours notice. The proprietor can remove a party from this contract by
>> announcement. A party to this contract can make an announcement to to
>> attempt to remove the Agent; if two other parties to this contract announce
>> support for the attempt, the Agent is removed from the contract.
>>
>> If the Agent wishes to resign (i.e. no longer wishes to be the Agent), they
>> must no longer be a party to this contract. When making the announcement to
>> do so, they may optionally select a non-proprietor party. If they choose to
>> do so, that party becomes the next Agent instead.
>>
>> The Agent of this contract, while the proprietor is the Reportor, is
>> empowered to publish Reportor reports on eir behalf, The Agent is also
>> allowed to collect any and all rewards related to the report that the Agent
>> is publishing on behalf of the proprietor, and if necessary, effect the
>> transfer of that reward to the Agent (by announcement, using this contract
>> as a proxy if necessary). In addition, if this contract does not possess a
>> Shiny but the proprietor does, and if the Notary has announced intent to
>> destroy this contract due to non-payment of its upkeep, the Agent can, by
>> announcement, cause the proprietor to transfer one of eir shinies to this
>> contract.
>> }}}
>>
>> I become a party to the contract "Reporting Agency".
>>
>> I transfer 1 Shiny to the contract "Reporting Agency"
>>
>> 天火狐
>
>
>
> --
> From V.J. Rada


DIS: Re: BUS: Contract (Designating reportor)

2017-11-12 Thread VJ Rada
I become a party to the below contract
(I may have a CFJ regarding it at some point, because it's me, of course).


On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 2:12 PM, Josh T  wrote:
> Since I'll be busy and apparently was remiss in doing things in the
> upstanding Agoran fashion, on suggestion I am going to make the following
> contract, titled "Reporting Agency", and paying the shiny to do so:
> {{{
> The player 天火狐 is the proprietor of the Reporting Agency. This contract
> recognizes one of it's non-proprietors as its Agent. If no party is
> currently recognized the Agent, this contract immediately selects the first
> party eligible based on the order in which they became a party to this
> contract.
>
> 天火狐 and VJ Rada can become a party to this contract by announcement. Any
> person can become a party to this contract by announcement starting Nov.
> 15, 2017. A party who is not the proprietor may cease to be a party to this
> contract by announcement.
>
> The proprietor can make amendments to this contract by announcement with 48
> hours notice. The proprietor can remove a party from this contract by
> announcement. A party to this contract can make an announcement to to
> attempt to remove the Agent; if two other parties to this contract announce
> support for the attempt, the Agent is removed from the contract.
>
> If the Agent wishes to resign (i.e. no longer wishes to be the Agent), they
> must no longer be a party to this contract. When making the announcement to
> do so, they may optionally select a non-proprietor party. If they choose to
> do so, that party becomes the next Agent instead.
>
> The Agent of this contract, while the proprietor is the Reportor, is
> empowered to publish Reportor reports on eir behalf, The Agent is also
> allowed to collect any and all rewards related to the report that the Agent
> is publishing on behalf of the proprietor, and if necessary, effect the
> transfer of that reward to the Agent (by announcement, using this contract
> as a proxy if necessary). In addition, if this contract does not possess a
> Shiny but the proprietor does, and if the Notary has announced intent to
> destroy this contract due to non-payment of its upkeep, the Agent can, by
> announcement, cause the proprietor to transfer one of eir shinies to this
> contract.
> }}}
>
> I become a party to the contract "Reporting Agency".
>
> I transfer 1 Shiny to the contract "Reporting Agency"
>
> 天火狐



-- 
>From V.J. Rada


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Reportor] Agora Sky News vol 7

2017-11-12 Thread Josh T
Sure, let me write up something quick.

天火狐

On 12 November 2017 at 21:44, VJ Rada  wrote:

> I'll take the job by designation if you want.
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 1:42 PM, Josh T 
> wrote:
> > Oh that's a good idea, a contracted replacement. Unfortunately, I don't
> see
> > myself being less busy in the near future so an election is probably in
> > order. Maybe in the new year? That's probably a bit too long given the
> pace
> > the game is running recently.
> >
> > 天火狐
> >
> > On 12 November 2017 at 12:27, Kerim Aydin 
> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> A week or two is fine, for anyone.  But more than that e should step
> down,
> >> work out a contracted replacement, or we should just run an election.
> >>
> >> On Sun, 12 Nov 2017, ATMunn wrote:
> >> > I agree. I think e said e was going to be pretty busy for a month or
> >> two, but
> >> > still. Also, the wrapping is messed up.
> >> >
> >> > On 11/12/2017 12:14 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Really we should put a word minimum on the newspaper; there were
> more
> >> > > activities going on this week and this seems very low-effort to me.
> >> > >
> >> > > I mean, if you can't even report your own Bard award to be
> "significant
> >> > > or interesting", that's just very limited.
> >> > >
> >> > > Do others have feelings on appropriate minimum effort?
> >> > >
> >> > > On Sun, 12 Nov 2017, Josh T wrote:
> >> > > > I claim a reward of 5 shinies for the report.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > 天火狐
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On 12 November 2017 at 11:29, Josh T 
> >> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > 
> >> > > > > 
> >> > > > > = Agora Sky News
> >> > > > > ===
> >> > > > > 
> >> ==
> >> > > > > vol.
> >> > > > > 7 ==
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >  Detective Institute Opens Doors
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > Aspiring investigators can now help Agoran citizens with solving
> >> > > > > mysteries
> >> > > > > with
> >> > > > > the help of the newly opened Sherlock Holmes Institute. All
> >> mysteries,
> >> > > > > large and
> >> > > > > small, are welcome; if a mystery is brought to the institute and
> >> its
> >> > > > > top-notch
> >> > > > > investigators cannot resolve the case in a reasonable time
> frame,
> >> you
> >> > > > > get
> >> > > > > your
> >> > > > > money back and then some for the inconvenience.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >  天火狐
> >> > > > >
> >> >
> >>
>
>
>
> --
> From V.J. Rada
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Reportor] Agora Sky News vol 7

2017-11-12 Thread VJ Rada
I'll take the job by designation if you want.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 1:42 PM, Josh T  wrote:
> Oh that's a good idea, a contracted replacement. Unfortunately, I don't see
> myself being less busy in the near future so an election is probably in
> order. Maybe in the new year? That's probably a bit too long given the pace
> the game is running recently.
>
> 天火狐
>
> On 12 November 2017 at 12:27, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> A week or two is fine, for anyone.  But more than that e should step down,
>> work out a contracted replacement, or we should just run an election.
>>
>> On Sun, 12 Nov 2017, ATMunn wrote:
>> > I agree. I think e said e was going to be pretty busy for a month or
>> two, but
>> > still. Also, the wrapping is messed up.
>> >
>> > On 11/12/2017 12:14 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Really we should put a word minimum on the newspaper; there were more
>> > > activities going on this week and this seems very low-effort to me.
>> > >
>> > > I mean, if you can't even report your own Bard award to be "significant
>> > > or interesting", that's just very limited.
>> > >
>> > > Do others have feelings on appropriate minimum effort?
>> > >
>> > > On Sun, 12 Nov 2017, Josh T wrote:
>> > > > I claim a reward of 5 shinies for the report.
>> > > >
>> > > > 天火狐
>> > > >
>> > > > On 12 November 2017 at 11:29, Josh T 
>> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > = Agora Sky News
>> > > > > ===
>> > > > > 
>> ==
>> > > > > vol.
>> > > > > 7 ==
>> > > > >
>> > > > >  Detective Institute Opens Doors
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Aspiring investigators can now help Agoran citizens with solving
>> > > > > mysteries
>> > > > > with
>> > > > > the help of the newly opened Sherlock Holmes Institute. All
>> mysteries,
>> > > > > large and
>> > > > > small, are welcome; if a mystery is brought to the institute and
>> its
>> > > > > top-notch
>> > > > > investigators cannot resolve the case in a reasonable time frame,
>> you
>> > > > > get
>> > > > > your
>> > > > > money back and then some for the inconvenience.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >  天火狐
>> > > > >
>> >
>>



-- 
>From V.J. Rada


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Reportor] Agora Sky News vol 7

2017-11-12 Thread Josh T
Oh that's a good idea, a contracted replacement. Unfortunately, I don't see
myself being less busy in the near future so an election is probably in
order. Maybe in the new year? That's probably a bit too long given the pace
the game is running recently.

天火狐

On 12 November 2017 at 12:27, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> A week or two is fine, for anyone.  But more than that e should step down,
> work out a contracted replacement, or we should just run an election.
>
> On Sun, 12 Nov 2017, ATMunn wrote:
> > I agree. I think e said e was going to be pretty busy for a month or
> two, but
> > still. Also, the wrapping is messed up.
> >
> > On 11/12/2017 12:14 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Really we should put a word minimum on the newspaper; there were more
> > > activities going on this week and this seems very low-effort to me.
> > >
> > > I mean, if you can't even report your own Bard award to be "significant
> > > or interesting", that's just very limited.
> > >
> > > Do others have feelings on appropriate minimum effort?
> > >
> > > On Sun, 12 Nov 2017, Josh T wrote:
> > > > I claim a reward of 5 shinies for the report.
> > > >
> > > > 天火狐
> > > >
> > > > On 12 November 2017 at 11:29, Josh T 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > = Agora Sky News
> > > > > ===
> > > > > 
> ==
> > > > > vol.
> > > > > 7 ==
> > > > >
> > > > >  Detective Institute Opens Doors
> > > > >
> > > > > Aspiring investigators can now help Agoran citizens with solving
> > > > > mysteries
> > > > > with
> > > > > the help of the newly opened Sherlock Holmes Institute. All
> mysteries,
> > > > > large and
> > > > > small, are welcome; if a mystery is brought to the institute and
> its
> > > > > top-notch
> > > > > investigators cannot resolve the case in a reasonable time frame,
> you
> > > > > get
> > > > > your
> > > > > money back and then some for the inconvenience.
> > > > >
> > > > >  天火狐
> > > > >
> >
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Sillyness

2017-11-12 Thread Reuben Staley
Indeed. Well, not to worry, since this is the first time I've ever been 
the Silly Person.


On 11/12/2017 6:31 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:

Someone can't be the silly person if they were already silly in the
last two weeks, or if they're not a player. I was being lazy, in a
rush, and/or paranoid (probably some combination of those).

-Aris

On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Reuben Staley  wrote:

Why would the appointment not work?

On 11/12/2017 4:27 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:


I submit the following proposal as my silly proposal. I appoint Trigon
to be next week's silly person. If the appointment of Trigon failed, I
appoint ATMunn to be next week's silly person.

-Aris

---

Title: Sky Pillars
AI: 1.0
Author: Aris


It's hereby enacted
(The name being redacted):

If a player should leave the game,
they will never be greeted with shame.
Instead a pillar of memory will be built in the sky,
it will last there forever,
it never shall die.
Tracked by whomever
tracks tracker-less things,
let's all watch the bountiful joy it brings
to see the names of those gone before
and the ways that they left, as they move into lore.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com



--
Trigon


--
Trigon


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Sillyness

2017-11-12 Thread Aris Merchant
Someone can't be the silly person if they were already silly in the
last two weeks, or if they're not a player. I was being lazy, in a
rush, and/or paranoid (probably some combination of those).

-Aris

On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Reuben Staley  wrote:
> Why would the appointment not work?
>
> On 11/12/2017 4:27 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:
>>
>> I submit the following proposal as my silly proposal. I appoint Trigon
>> to be next week's silly person. If the appointment of Trigon failed, I
>> appoint ATMunn to be next week's silly person.
>>
>> -Aris
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Title: Sky Pillars
>> AI: 1.0
>> Author: Aris
>>
>>
>> It's hereby enacted
>> (The name being redacted):
>>
>> If a player should leave the game,
>> they will never be greeted with shame.
>> Instead a pillar of memory will be built in the sky,
>> it will last there forever,
>> it never shall die.
>> Tracked by whomever
>> tracks tracker-less things,
>> let's all watch the bountiful joy it brings
>> to see the names of those gone before
>> and the ways that they left, as they move into lore.
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> http://www.avg.com
>>
>
> --
> Trigon


DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 7965-7972

2017-11-12 Thread Aris Merchant
Wasn't that Proposal 7962 last week?

-Aris

On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 4:44 PM, ATMunn  wrote:
> CoE: I might be missing something, but I'm pretty sure I submitted the fix
> for my Medals of Honour proposal. I don't see that here.
>
> On 11/12/2017 6:24 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:
>>
>> I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
>> Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
>> pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the
>> quorum is 7.0, the voting method is AI-majority, and the valid
>> options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is also a valid vote, as
>> are conditional votes).
>>
>> ID Author(s)  AI   TitlePender  Pend
>> fee
>>
>> ---
>> 7965*  Trigon 3.0  One pronoun fix  Trigon  1 AP
>> 7966*  ATMunn 1.0  But I already live there!o   1 AP
>> 7967*  V.J. Rada  1.0  Rhyming sux tbh  V.J. Rada   1 AP
>> 7968*  Alexis, [3]2.0  Backed Out the Door  Alexis  OP
>> [1][2]
>> 7969*  V.J. Rada, [4] 3.0  Obvious fix  V.J. Rada   2 sh.
>> 7970*  V.J. Rada  2.0  Referee Minor FixV.J. Rada   2 sh.
>> 7971*  V.J. Rada, [4] 3.0  Cleanup Time V.J. Rada   2 sh.
>> 7972*  G. 2.0  Silly Tweaks G.  1 AP
>>
>> The proposal pool currently contains the following proposals:
>>
>> ID   Author(s) AI   Title
>>
>> ---
>> pp1  Alexis1.7  A Most Ingenious Paradox
>> pp2  ATMunn, [4]   1.0  [5]
>>
>>
>> Legend: * : Proposal is pending.
>>
>> [1] Official Proposal, inherently pending
>> [2] The official status of this proposal is disputed. If it is not
>> official,
>> it has been pended by Aris for 1 AP
>> [3] Telnaior, ais523, Aris, G.
>> [4] Alexis
>> [5] No title
>>
>>
>> A proposal may be pended for 1 AP, or for 1/20th the Floating Value
>> in shines (see the Treasuror's report).
>>
>> The full text of the aforementioned proposals is included below.
>>
>> //
>> ID: 7965
>> Title: One pronoun fix
>> Adoption index: 3.0
>> Author: Trigon
>> Co-authors:
>>
>>
>> Replace the word "his" in the second paragraph of Rule 2438 ("Ribbons")
>> with
>> "eir".
>>
>> //
>> ID: 7966
>> Title: But I already live there
>> Adoption index: 1.0
>> Author: Trigon
>> Co-authors:
>>
>>
>> Amend rule 2474 "Green Cards" by replacing the text "the United States"
>> with
>> "Brazil".
>>
>> //
>> ID: 7967
>> Title: Rhyming sux tbh
>> Adoption index: 1.0
>> Author: V.J. Rada
>> Co-authors:
>>
>>
>> Repeal rule 1650, "Silliness"
>> Repeal the rule called "Poetry Duel Challenge Writ
>>
>> //
>> ID: 7968
>> Title: Backed Out the Door
>> Adoption index: 2.0
>> Author: Alexis
>> Co-authors: Telnaior, ais523, Aris, G.
>>
>>
>> Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Political Parties", reading as
>> follows:
>>
>>There are 5 Parties, in order:
>>
>>- Platonic Isolationists
>>- New Punchbowl Reformers
>>- Costume Conservatives
>>- Substance Use Liberals
>>- Official Raving Monster Looney Party
>>
>>Politicians are entities; each Politician has a name and an
>>associated Party. Politicians exist only as specified by the
>>rules. Creating, altering, or destroying Politicians is secured.
>>
>>If there are ever fewer than 20 Politicians, then the Clork CAN
>>and SHALL, by announcement, create a new Politician, specifying
>>eir Party and name. The Party must be selected at random from:
>>
>>- If any Party has fewer than 3 Politicans, the Party or Parties
>>  with the fewest.
>>- Otherwise, the Parties with fewer than 5 Politicians.
>>
>> Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Clork", reading as follows:
>>
>>The Clork (pronounced "clark") is an office. The Clork's weekly
>>report includes:
>>- a list of all Politicans with their names and Parties.
>>- the assignment of Policies to Parties.
>>
>>The portion of a document purporting to be a Clork's report
>>containing the above information is self-ratifying.
>>
>> Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Echelon Forms", reading as follows:
>>
>>A Post is a position which can be held by at most one Politician.
>>Each Politican can hold at most one Post at a time. Each Post is
>>in an Echelon, which has an associated Rank. The Echelons, and
>>their Posts and Ranks, are as follows:
>>
>>Chamber of Power (Rank 5):
>>- Host
>>Upper Echelon (Rank 3):
>>- Planner
>>- Enforcer
>>- Organizer
>>- Creep
>>Row Echelon (Rank 

DIS: Re: BUS: Sillyness

2017-11-12 Thread Reuben Staley

Why would the appointment not work?

On 11/12/2017 4:27 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:

I submit the following proposal as my silly proposal. I appoint Trigon
to be next week's silly person. If the appointment of Trigon failed, I
appoint ATMunn to be next week's silly person.

-Aris

---

Title: Sky Pillars
AI: 1.0
Author: Aris


It's hereby enacted
(The name being redacted):

If a player should leave the game,
they will never be greeted with shame.
Instead a pillar of memory will be built in the sky,
it will last there forever,
it never shall die.
Tracked by whomever
tracks tracker-less things,
let's all watch the bountiful joy it brings
to see the names of those gone before
and the ways that they left, as they move into lore.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com



--
Trigon


DIS: Re: BUS: zombie-related CFJ

2017-11-12 Thread Madeline

Gratuitous Argument:
Rule 2466 ("Acting on Behalf") is very clear in its function. When 
acting on behalf of another, the agent is still the one performing the 
action.
It also explicitly disallows acting on behalf to send a message: "in 
particular, a person CANNOT act on behalf of another person to send a 
message, only to perform specific actions that might be taken within a 
message."
While the action is considered to have been performed by the principal, 
the message is not - and Rule 869 ("How to Join and Leave Agora") makes 
it clear that it is sending the message that makes someone ineligible 
for inactivity-based deregistration. I do not see room for ambiguity or 
alternate interpretations here.



On 2017-11-13 10:41, Kerim Aydin wrote:

I AP-CFJ on:
   It is POSSIBLE for an Agent to act on behalf of a Principal to
   send a message to a public forum for the purposes of
   preventing the Principal's deregistration as per R869.

(Arguments to follow, trying to get this in before the end of
the week).


Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3594 assigned to Telnaior

2017-11-12 Thread Madeline

Better we dig it up now while it can still be fixed reasonably safely.


On 2017-11-13 11:32, ATMunn wrote:

*looks at this whole conversation*
what have I done .-.

On 11/12/2017 6:26 PM, Madeline wrote:
Alternatively, since 1023 ("Agoran Time") specifies only when Agoran 
Months start, and makes no claim about how long they last or even 
that we always be within one, Rule 2529 ("Medals of Honour") could be 
interpreted to clarify that an Agoran Month only lasts seven days, 
and the rest of the calendar month we aren't in any Agoran Month at 
all. I'm a little averse to this one because of how much it could 
break, but it's an option. >_>



On 2017-11-13 10:15, Madeline wrote:
My instinct here is to say that this rule is attempting to claim 
that an Agoran Month is seven days long, and also that a player can 
declare emself eligible during an Agoran Month. The first claim is 
overridden by Rule 1023 ("Agoran Time"), while the second claim goes 
untouched - and as we are always within an Agoran Month, a player 
can always declare emself eligible and that this would be TRUE. 
Anything I'm missing or any precedent I should be aware of?



On 2017-11-13 09:10, Kerim Aydin wrote:



On Tue, 7 Nov 2017, VJ Rada wrote:

Shiny CFJ: G. is eligible for a Medal of Honour.

This is CFJ 3594.  I assign it to Telnaior.


Arguments:


The medal of honour rule says "in the week of an agoran month",
players can declare themselves eligible for a Notice. Munn meant 
first

week. Can G. now declare emself eligible?

On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 1:07 PM, ATMunn  
wrote:
   I have no idea if this actually worked or not, since the 
rule is a bit broken. We'll just... pretend it works...


   On 11/6/2017 6:49 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:


 I declare myself eligible for a Medal of Honour.












Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3594 assigned to Telnaior

2017-11-12 Thread ATMunn

*looks at this whole conversation*
what have I done .-.

On 11/12/2017 6:26 PM, Madeline wrote:

Alternatively, since 1023 ("Agoran Time") specifies only when Agoran Months start, and makes no 
claim about how long they last or even that we always be within one, Rule 2529 ("Medals of 
Honour") could be interpreted to clarify that an Agoran Month only lasts seven days, and the rest of 
the calendar month we aren't in any Agoran Month at all. I'm a little averse to this one because of how 
much it could break, but it's an option. >_>


On 2017-11-13 10:15, Madeline wrote:

My instinct here is to say that this rule is attempting to claim that an Agoran Month is 
seven days long, and also that a player can declare emself eligible during an Agoran 
Month. The first claim is overridden by Rule 1023 ("Agoran Time"), while the 
second claim goes untouched - and as we are always within an Agoran Month, a player can 
always declare emself eligible and that this would be TRUE. Anything I'm missing or any 
precedent I should be aware of?


On 2017-11-13 09:10, Kerim Aydin wrote:



On Tue, 7 Nov 2017, VJ Rada wrote:

Shiny CFJ: G. is eligible for a Medal of Honour.

This is CFJ 3594.  I assign it to Telnaior.


Arguments:


The medal of honour rule says "in the week of an agoran month",
players can declare themselves eligible for a Notice. Munn meant first
week. Can G. now declare emself eligible?

On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 1:07 PM, ATMunn  wrote:
   I have no idea if this actually worked or not, since the rule is a bit 
broken. We'll just... pretend it works...

   On 11/6/2017 6:49 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:


 I declare myself eligible for a Medal of Honour.










Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Herald] Medal of Honor Decision initiation

2017-11-12 Thread VJ Rada
I vividly remember resolving a PM election in favour of K, who
deregistered midway through the voting period but still one: and I
also remember reading the rules quite carefully to support that
conclusion (which nobody disputed). That's the only precedent I can
recall.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:55 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
>
>
> In general, nothing prevents valid options from changing during the
> voting period.
>
> For example, in the previous version of elections (before we had a
> nomination period), the valid options were lists of players.  If
> someone registered midway through an election, they could become
> valid  (and likewise if someone deregistered they ceased to be valid).
>
> At least, I think this is how it worked - can't remember when it was
> last tested with a CFJ.
>
> On Mon, 13 Nov 2017, VJ Rada wrote:
>> No, it doesn't iirc. Valid votes are fixed at the initiation, I'm 90%
>> sure (not 100%).
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:50 AM, Telnaior  wrote:
>> > Oh yeah, I was wondering if it'd mean anything but we may as well find out:
>> >
>> > I declare myself eligible for a Medal of Honour.
>> >
>> > Does that make me a valid vote (assuming my judgement falls in a way that
>> > makes this declaration possible)?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 2017-11-13 10:45, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, 13 Nov 2017, VJ Rada wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Obviously, I vote for G.
>> >>
>> >> In the interests of fairness, I should point out that's it's
>> >> conceivable that others can jump in late (depending on the
>> >> pending judgement), and also allowing it to fail quorum is
>> >> always an option.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From V.J. Rada
>>
>



-- 
>From V.J. Rada


Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3594 assigned to Telnaior

2017-11-12 Thread Alexis Hunt
On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 at 18:56 Madeline  wrote:

> We have our current ordering for a reason - it's the easiest to read,
> which is hard enough to handle sometimes with how the ruleset gets.
>
> I probably wouldn't want to have it ordered by power all the time (or
> even as a regular requirement), but once in a while so we can look for
> weirdness probably isn't a bad idea?
>
> I'll also add: I think that our system of definitions and power right now
is broken in a bad way. Rules have been power creeping for a long time,
largely as a result of exactly this property. The most boring and trivial
definitions are moving up to high powers because they are needed to protect
higher-powered rules, and as a result we have discussions like whether the
definition of a "month" needs to be made power 3 to work correctly.

(It's worth noting that there's also a power-2 -> power-3 escalation that
has been sitting in the ruleset since before I joined the game for the
first time, and never been used, so this gives an idea of the sort of
importance of protecting higher-power rules by lower-power ones).

Perhaps we should be less strict, and explicitly permit low-powered rules
to introduce clarifying definitions, as long as the higher-powered rule is
not subverted in the process. A month must always be a month, to some
sensible degree, but whether one month after January 29 in a non-leap year
is February 28, or March 1 is up to a precise definition.


Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 7965-7972

2017-11-12 Thread VJ Rada
"I pledge to transfer 5 shinies to the author of the first proposal that
gives the Rulekeepor authority, under Cleanup Time, to additionally
correct, at least: missing periods at the end of sentences, inconsistently
spelled game terminology, and pronoun use (including inappropriate use of
Spivak pronouns in plural contexts)."

Just looks like someone has to author one to me. I suppose the word
"gives" could mean actually affects the game instead of just the words
in the proposal. This isn't CFJ resolvable now, because of how pledges
work.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:55 AM, Alexis Hunt  wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 at 18:50 VJ Rada  wrote:
>
>> I vote
>>
> NttPF
>
>>
>> 7971*  V.J. Rada, [4] 3.0  Cleanup Time V.J. Rada   2 sh.
>> FOR (Remember your pledge, Alexis)
>>
>
> Absolutely; the pledge is only valid if it passes, however.



-- 
>From V.J. Rada


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Herald] Medal of Honor Decision initiation

2017-11-12 Thread Kerim Aydin


In general, nothing prevents valid options from changing during the
voting period.

For example, in the previous version of elections (before we had a
nomination period), the valid options were lists of players.  If
someone registered midway through an election, they could become
valid  (and likewise if someone deregistered they ceased to be valid).

At least, I think this is how it worked - can't remember when it was
last tested with a CFJ.

On Mon, 13 Nov 2017, VJ Rada wrote:
> No, it doesn't iirc. Valid votes are fixed at the initiation, I'm 90%
> sure (not 100%).
> 
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:50 AM, Telnaior  wrote:
> > Oh yeah, I was wondering if it'd mean anything but we may as well find out:
> >
> > I declare myself eligible for a Medal of Honour.
> >
> > Does that make me a valid vote (assuming my judgement falls in a way that
> > makes this declaration possible)?
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2017-11-13 10:45, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, 13 Nov 2017, VJ Rada wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Obviously, I vote for G.
> >>
> >> In the interests of fairness, I should point out that's it's
> >> conceivable that others can jump in late (depending on the
> >> pending judgement), and also allowing it to fail quorum is
> >> always an option.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> From V.J. Rada
>



Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3594 assigned to Telnaior

2017-11-12 Thread Madeline

On 2017-11-13 10:54, Alexis Hunt wrote:

On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 at 18:52 Kerim Aydin  wrote:


On Mon, 13 Nov 2017, Madeline wrote:

I'd really love to see a ruleset ordered by power, so we can see if it

still

works at every step down the ladder. The intent I get from the precedent

rules

are that the power 4 rules should all stand without external support,

then all

the 4+3.9 rules, then all the 3-4 rules, etc.

When I posted the last (ever, sob!) Fearmongor set, I included a
power-sorted
list of rule titles.  Here, a little out-of-date:


https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2017-October/036770.html

If H. Rulekeepor Alexis doesn't have a way to do it, I can post a copy that
includes the rule texts (it auto-generates from a text with current SLR or
FLR).  When I was rulekeepor I always meant to publish a version that was
sorted that way but never got around to it.


Ordering by power wouldn't be too difficult. Would people be interested in
that in addition to the SLR? Or in place of the current organization?


We have our current ordering for a reason - it's the easiest to read, 
which is hard enough to handle sometimes with how the ruleset gets.


I probably wouldn't want to have it ordered by power all the time (or 
even as a regular requirement), but once in a while so we can look for 
weirdness probably isn't a bad idea?




Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 7965-7972

2017-11-12 Thread Alexis Hunt
On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 at 18:50 VJ Rada  wrote:

> I vote
>
NttPF

>
> 7971*  V.J. Rada, [4] 3.0  Cleanup Time V.J. Rada   2 sh.
> FOR (Remember your pledge, Alexis)
>

Absolutely; the pledge is only valid if it passes, however.


Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3594 assigned to Telnaior

2017-11-12 Thread Alexis Hunt
On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 at 18:52 Kerim Aydin  wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Nov 2017, Madeline wrote:
> > I'd really love to see a ruleset ordered by power, so we can see if it
> still
> > works at every step down the ladder. The intent I get from the precedent
> rules
> > are that the power 4 rules should all stand without external support,
> then all
> > the 4+3.9 rules, then all the 3-4 rules, etc.
>
> When I posted the last (ever, sob!) Fearmongor set, I included a
> power-sorted
> list of rule titles.  Here, a little out-of-date:
>
>
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2017-October/036770.html
>
> If H. Rulekeepor Alexis doesn't have a way to do it, I can post a copy that
> includes the rule texts (it auto-generates from a text with current SLR or
> FLR).  When I was rulekeepor I always meant to publish a version that was
> sorted that way but never got around to it.
>

Ordering by power wouldn't be too difficult. Would people be interested in
that in addition to the SLR? Or in place of the current organization?


Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3594 assigned to Telnaior

2017-11-12 Thread Kerim Aydin


On Mon, 13 Nov 2017, Madeline wrote:
> I'd really love to see a ruleset ordered by power, so we can see if it still
> works at every step down the ladder. The intent I get from the precedent rules
> are that the power 4 rules should all stand without external support, then all
> the 4+3.9 rules, then all the 3-4 rules, etc.

When I posted the last (ever, sob!) Fearmongor set, I included a power-sorted
list of rule titles.  Here, a little out-of-date:

https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2017-October/036770.html

If H. Rulekeepor Alexis doesn't have a way to do it, I can post a copy that
includes the rule texts (it auto-generates from a text with current SLR or 
FLR).  When I was rulekeepor I always meant to publish a version that was
sorted that way but never got around to it.





Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Herald] Medal of Honor Decision initiation

2017-11-12 Thread VJ Rada
No, it doesn't iirc. Valid votes are fixed at the initiation, I'm 90%
sure (not 100%).

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:50 AM, Telnaior  wrote:
> Oh yeah, I was wondering if it'd mean anything but we may as well find out:
>
> I declare myself eligible for a Medal of Honour.
>
> Does that make me a valid vote (assuming my judgement falls in a way that
> makes this declaration possible)?
>
>
>
> On 2017-11-13 10:45, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 13 Nov 2017, VJ Rada wrote:
>>>
>>> Obviously, I vote for G.
>>
>> In the interests of fairness, I should point out that's it's
>> conceivable that others can jump in late (depending on the
>> pending judgement), and also allowing it to fail quorum is
>> always an option.
>>
>>
>>
>



-- 
>From V.J. Rada


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Herald] Medal of Honor Decision initiation

2017-11-12 Thread VJ Rada
Hasn't the "Medal of Honour" fix passed?

I don't want it to fail quorum though, you legitemately got no cards
last month et cetera. And nobody else jumped in. You shouldn't be
punished for that.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:45 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, 13 Nov 2017, VJ Rada wrote:
>> Obviously, I vote for G.
>
> In the interests of fairness, I should point out that's it's
> conceivable that others can jump in late (depending on the
> pending judgement), and also allowing it to fail quorum is
> always an option.
>
>
>



-- 
>From V.J. Rada


DIS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 7965-7972

2017-11-12 Thread VJ Rada
I vote

ID Author(s)  AI   TitlePender  Pend fee
---
7965*  Trigon 3.0  One pronoun fix  Trigon  1 AP
FOR: Obviously nobody could conceivably object to this
7966*  ATMunn 1.0  But I already live there!o   1 AP
AGAINST: people associate Green Cards with the United States, not
Brazil. I'm sure a majority of us are American (although some are
not), but this just makes it a strange joke that nobody will get
(admittedly, not an alient concept in this game)
7967*  V.J. Rada  1.0  Rhyming sux tbh  V.J. Rada   1 AP
FOR
7968*  Alexis, [3]2.0  Backed Out the Door  Alexis  OP [1][2]
FOR (I promised Telnaior I would)
7969*  V.J. Rada, [4] 3.0  Obvious fix  V.J. Rada   2 sh.
FOR
7970*  V.J. Rada  2.0  Referee Minor FixV.J. Rada   2 sh.
FOR
7971*  V.J. Rada, [4] 3.0  Cleanup Time V.J. Rada   2 sh.
FOR (Remember your pledge, Alexis)
7972*  G. 2.0  Silly Tweaks G.  1 AP
FOR (hope it gets repealed)

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Aris Merchant
 wrote:
> I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
> Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
> pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the
> quorum is 7.0, the voting method is AI-majority, and the valid
> options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is also a valid vote, as
> are conditional votes).
>
> ID Author(s)  AI   TitlePender  Pend fee
> ---
> 7965*  Trigon 3.0  One pronoun fix  Trigon  1 AP
> 7966*  ATMunn 1.0  But I already live there!o   1 AP
> 7967*  V.J. Rada  1.0  Rhyming sux tbh  V.J. Rada   1 AP
> 7968*  Alexis, [3]2.0  Backed Out the Door  Alexis  OP [1][2]
> 7969*  V.J. Rada, [4] 3.0  Obvious fix  V.J. Rada   2 sh.
> 7970*  V.J. Rada  2.0  Referee Minor FixV.J. Rada   2 sh.
> 7971*  V.J. Rada, [4] 3.0  Cleanup Time V.J. Rada   2 sh.
> 7972*  G. 2.0  Silly Tweaks G.  1 AP
>
> The proposal pool currently contains the following proposals:
>
> ID   Author(s) AI   Title
> ---
> pp1  Alexis1.7  A Most Ingenious Paradox
> pp2  ATMunn, [4]   1.0  [5]
>
>
> Legend: * : Proposal is pending.
>
> [1] Official Proposal, inherently pending
> [2] The official status of this proposal is disputed. If it is not official,
> it has been pended by Aris for 1 AP
> [3] Telnaior, ais523, Aris, G.
> [4] Alexis
> [5] No title
>
>
> A proposal may be pended for 1 AP, or for 1/20th the Floating Value
> in shines (see the Treasuror's report).
>
> The full text of the aforementioned proposals is included below.
>
> //
> ID: 7965
> Title: One pronoun fix
> Adoption index: 3.0
> Author: Trigon
> Co-authors:
>
>
> Replace the word "his" in the second paragraph of Rule 2438 ("Ribbons") with
> "eir".
>
> //
> ID: 7966
> Title: But I already live there
> Adoption index: 1.0
> Author: Trigon
> Co-authors:
>
>
> Amend rule 2474 "Green Cards" by replacing the text "the United States" with
> "Brazil".
>
> //
> ID: 7967
> Title: Rhyming sux tbh
> Adoption index: 1.0
> Author: V.J. Rada
> Co-authors:
>
>
> Repeal rule 1650, "Silliness"
> Repeal the rule called "Poetry Duel Challenge Writ
>
> //
> ID: 7968
> Title: Backed Out the Door
> Adoption index: 2.0
> Author: Alexis
> Co-authors: Telnaior, ais523, Aris, G.
>
>
> Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Political Parties", reading as
> follows:
>
>   There are 5 Parties, in order:
>
>   - Platonic Isolationists
>   - New Punchbowl Reformers
>   - Costume Conservatives
>   - Substance Use Liberals
>   - Official Raving Monster Looney Party
>
>   Politicians are entities; each Politician has a name and an
>   associated Party. Politicians exist only as specified by the
>   rules. Creating, altering, or destroying Politicians is secured.
>
>   If there are ever fewer than 20 Politicians, then the Clork CAN
>   and SHALL, by announcement, create a new Politician, specifying
>   eir Party and name. The Party must be selected at random from:
>
>   - If any Party has fewer than 3 Politicans, the Party or Parties
> with the fewest.
>   - Otherwise, the Parties with fewer than 5 Politicians.
>
> Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Clork", reading as follows:
>
>   The Clork (pronounced 

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Herald] Medal of Honor Decision initiation

2017-11-12 Thread Kerim Aydin


On Mon, 13 Nov 2017, VJ Rada wrote:
> Obviously, I vote for G.

In the interests of fairness, I should point out that's it's 
conceivable that others can jump in late (depending on the 
pending judgement), and also allowing it to fail quorum is 
always an option.





Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3594 assigned to Telnaior

2017-11-12 Thread Madeline
I'd really love to see a ruleset ordered by power, so we can see if it 
still works at every step down the ladder. The intent I get from the 
precedent rules are that the power 4 rules should all stand without 
external support, then all the 4+3.9 rules, then all the 3-4 rules, etc.



On 2017-11-13 10:37, VJ Rada wrote:

I think we should be more cognizant of that particular clause in 217:
looking @ u "a 3.9 power proposal overrides all time, despite weeks
existing at power 4".

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:35 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:

This is definitely not true because we know that common meaning in
higher powered rules actually overrides explicit definitions in lower
powered rules (yes, this is weird, but it is true under 217
"Definitions in lower-powered Rules do not overrule common-sense
interpretations or common definitions of terms in higher-powered
rules."). The common definition of a month is 30 days. Obviously.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:26 AM, Madeline  wrote:

Alternatively, since 1023 ("Agoran Time") specifies only when Agoran Months
start, and makes no claim about how long they last or even that we always be
within one, Rule 2529 ("Medals of Honour") could be interpreted to clarify
that an Agoran Month only lasts seven days, and the rest of the calendar
month we aren't in any Agoran Month at all. I'm a little averse to this one
because of how much it could break, but it's an option. >_>



On 2017-11-13 10:15, Madeline wrote:

My instinct here is to say that this rule is attempting to claim that an
Agoran Month is seven days long, and also that a player can declare emself
eligible during an Agoran Month. The first claim is overridden by Rule 1023
("Agoran Time"), while the second claim goes untouched - and as we are
always within an Agoran Month, a player can always declare emself eligible
and that this would be TRUE. Anything I'm missing or any precedent I should
be aware of?


On 2017-11-13 09:10, Kerim Aydin wrote:



On Tue, 7 Nov 2017, VJ Rada wrote:

Shiny CFJ: G. is eligible for a Medal of Honour.

This is CFJ 3594.  I assign it to Telnaior.


Arguments:


The medal of honour rule says "in the week of an agoran month",
players can declare themselves eligible for a Notice. Munn meant first
week. Can G. now declare emself eligible?

On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 1:07 PM, ATMunn  wrote:
I have no idea if this actually worked or not, since the rule is
a bit broken. We'll just... pretend it works...

On 11/6/2017 6:49 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:


  I declare myself eligible for a Medal of Honour.







--
 From V.J. Rada







Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3594 assigned to Telnaior

2017-11-12 Thread Kerim Aydin


On Mon, 13 Nov 2017, VJ Rada wrote:
> Also means that any use of Agoran time over power 2 is uh... maybe not
> entirely valid. Agoran epochs should maybe be power 3.9 or something.
> 
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:37 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> > I think we should be more cognizant of that particular clause in 217:
> > looking @ u "a 3.9 power proposal overrides all time, despite weeks
> > existing at power 4".

Well, a major result of the "destroy the universe" CFJ was that we might
want to make the passage of time something we protect up there at high
levels...





Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3594 assigned to Telnaior

2017-11-12 Thread Madeline
I mean I'd hope it's not always exactly 30 days, but that's good to note 
as well. Definitely leaning more towards my initial assessment again 
now, that declaring oneself eligible is simply possible any time (but 
not particularly helpful if it's after the herald initiates the decision).



On 2017-11-13 10:35, VJ Rada wrote:

This is definitely not true because we know that common meaning in
higher powered rules actually overrides explicit definitions in lower
powered rules (yes, this is weird, but it is true under 217
"Definitions in lower-powered Rules do not overrule common-sense
interpretations or common definitions of terms in higher-powered
rules."). The common definition of a month is 30 days. Obviously.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:26 AM, Madeline  wrote:

Alternatively, since 1023 ("Agoran Time") specifies only when Agoran Months
start, and makes no claim about how long they last or even that we always be
within one, Rule 2529 ("Medals of Honour") could be interpreted to clarify
that an Agoran Month only lasts seven days, and the rest of the calendar
month we aren't in any Agoran Month at all. I'm a little averse to this one
because of how much it could break, but it's an option. >_>



On 2017-11-13 10:15, Madeline wrote:

My instinct here is to say that this rule is attempting to claim that an
Agoran Month is seven days long, and also that a player can declare emself
eligible during an Agoran Month. The first claim is overridden by Rule 1023
("Agoran Time"), while the second claim goes untouched - and as we are
always within an Agoran Month, a player can always declare emself eligible
and that this would be TRUE. Anything I'm missing or any precedent I should
be aware of?


On 2017-11-13 09:10, Kerim Aydin wrote:



On Tue, 7 Nov 2017, VJ Rada wrote:

Shiny CFJ: G. is eligible for a Medal of Honour.

This is CFJ 3594.  I assign it to Telnaior.


Arguments:


The medal of honour rule says "in the week of an agoran month",
players can declare themselves eligible for a Notice. Munn meant first
week. Can G. now declare emself eligible?

On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 1:07 PM, ATMunn  wrote:
I have no idea if this actually worked or not, since the rule is
a bit broken. We'll just... pretend it works...

On 11/6/2017 6:49 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:


  I declare myself eligible for a Medal of Honour.











Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3594 assigned to Telnaior

2017-11-12 Thread VJ Rada
Also means that any use of Agoran time over power 2 is uh... maybe not
entirely valid. Agoran epochs should maybe be power 3.9 or something.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:37 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> I think we should be more cognizant of that particular clause in 217:
> looking @ u "a 3.9 power proposal overrides all time, despite weeks
> existing at power 4".
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:35 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:
>> This is definitely not true because we know that common meaning in
>> higher powered rules actually overrides explicit definitions in lower
>> powered rules (yes, this is weird, but it is true under 217
>> "Definitions in lower-powered Rules do not overrule common-sense
>> interpretations or common definitions of terms in higher-powered
>> rules."). The common definition of a month is 30 days. Obviously.
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:26 AM, Madeline  wrote:
>>> Alternatively, since 1023 ("Agoran Time") specifies only when Agoran Months
>>> start, and makes no claim about how long they last or even that we always be
>>> within one, Rule 2529 ("Medals of Honour") could be interpreted to clarify
>>> that an Agoran Month only lasts seven days, and the rest of the calendar
>>> month we aren't in any Agoran Month at all. I'm a little averse to this one
>>> because of how much it could break, but it's an option. >_>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2017-11-13 10:15, Madeline wrote:

 My instinct here is to say that this rule is attempting to claim that an
 Agoran Month is seven days long, and also that a player can declare emself
 eligible during an Agoran Month. The first claim is overridden by Rule 1023
 ("Agoran Time"), while the second claim goes untouched - and as we are
 always within an Agoran Month, a player can always declare emself eligible
 and that this would be TRUE. Anything I'm missing or any precedent I should
 be aware of?


 On 2017-11-13 09:10, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, 7 Nov 2017, VJ Rada wrote:
>>
>> Shiny CFJ: G. is eligible for a Medal of Honour.
>
> This is CFJ 3594.  I assign it to Telnaior.
>
>
> Arguments:
>
>> The medal of honour rule says "in the week of an agoran month",
>> players can declare themselves eligible for a Notice. Munn meant first
>> week. Can G. now declare emself eligible?
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 1:07 PM, ATMunn  wrote:
>>I have no idea if this actually worked or not, since the rule is
>> a bit broken. We'll just... pretend it works...
>>
>>On 11/6/2017 6:49 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>>
>>
>>  I declare myself eligible for a Medal of Honour.
>
>
>
>

>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From V.J. Rada
>
>
>
> --
> From V.J. Rada



-- 
>From V.J. Rada


Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3594 assigned to Telnaior

2017-11-12 Thread VJ Rada
I think we should be more cognizant of that particular clause in 217:
looking @ u "a 3.9 power proposal overrides all time, despite weeks
existing at power 4".

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:35 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> This is definitely not true because we know that common meaning in
> higher powered rules actually overrides explicit definitions in lower
> powered rules (yes, this is weird, but it is true under 217
> "Definitions in lower-powered Rules do not overrule common-sense
> interpretations or common definitions of terms in higher-powered
> rules."). The common definition of a month is 30 days. Obviously.
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:26 AM, Madeline  wrote:
>> Alternatively, since 1023 ("Agoran Time") specifies only when Agoran Months
>> start, and makes no claim about how long they last or even that we always be
>> within one, Rule 2529 ("Medals of Honour") could be interpreted to clarify
>> that an Agoran Month only lasts seven days, and the rest of the calendar
>> month we aren't in any Agoran Month at all. I'm a little averse to this one
>> because of how much it could break, but it's an option. >_>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2017-11-13 10:15, Madeline wrote:
>>>
>>> My instinct here is to say that this rule is attempting to claim that an
>>> Agoran Month is seven days long, and also that a player can declare emself
>>> eligible during an Agoran Month. The first claim is overridden by Rule 1023
>>> ("Agoran Time"), while the second claim goes untouched - and as we are
>>> always within an Agoran Month, a player can always declare emself eligible
>>> and that this would be TRUE. Anything I'm missing or any precedent I should
>>> be aware of?
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2017-11-13 09:10, Kerim Aydin wrote:



 On Tue, 7 Nov 2017, VJ Rada wrote:
>
> Shiny CFJ: G. is eligible for a Medal of Honour.

 This is CFJ 3594.  I assign it to Telnaior.


 Arguments:

> The medal of honour rule says "in the week of an agoran month",
> players can declare themselves eligible for a Notice. Munn meant first
> week. Can G. now declare emself eligible?
>
> On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 1:07 PM, ATMunn  wrote:
>I have no idea if this actually worked or not, since the rule is
> a bit broken. We'll just... pretend it works...
>
>On 11/6/2017 6:49 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>
>
>  I declare myself eligible for a Medal of Honour.




>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> From V.J. Rada



-- 
>From V.J. Rada


Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3594 assigned to Telnaior

2017-11-12 Thread VJ Rada
This is definitely not true because we know that common meaning in
higher powered rules actually overrides explicit definitions in lower
powered rules (yes, this is weird, but it is true under 217
"Definitions in lower-powered Rules do not overrule common-sense
interpretations or common definitions of terms in higher-powered
rules."). The common definition of a month is 30 days. Obviously.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:26 AM, Madeline  wrote:
> Alternatively, since 1023 ("Agoran Time") specifies only when Agoran Months
> start, and makes no claim about how long they last or even that we always be
> within one, Rule 2529 ("Medals of Honour") could be interpreted to clarify
> that an Agoran Month only lasts seven days, and the rest of the calendar
> month we aren't in any Agoran Month at all. I'm a little averse to this one
> because of how much it could break, but it's an option. >_>
>
>
>
> On 2017-11-13 10:15, Madeline wrote:
>>
>> My instinct here is to say that this rule is attempting to claim that an
>> Agoran Month is seven days long, and also that a player can declare emself
>> eligible during an Agoran Month. The first claim is overridden by Rule 1023
>> ("Agoran Time"), while the second claim goes untouched - and as we are
>> always within an Agoran Month, a player can always declare emself eligible
>> and that this would be TRUE. Anything I'm missing or any precedent I should
>> be aware of?
>>
>>
>> On 2017-11-13 09:10, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 7 Nov 2017, VJ Rada wrote:

 Shiny CFJ: G. is eligible for a Medal of Honour.
>>>
>>> This is CFJ 3594.  I assign it to Telnaior.
>>>
>>>
>>> Arguments:
>>>
 The medal of honour rule says "in the week of an agoran month",
 players can declare themselves eligible for a Notice. Munn meant first
 week. Can G. now declare emself eligible?

 On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 1:07 PM, ATMunn  wrote:
I have no idea if this actually worked or not, since the rule is
 a bit broken. We'll just... pretend it works...

On 11/6/2017 6:49 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:


  I declare myself eligible for a Medal of Honour.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>



-- 
>From V.J. Rada


Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3594 assigned to Telnaior

2017-11-12 Thread Madeline
Okay, so that'll save us from being doomed to 7-day months at least (it 
might doom us to 14-day months, but that'd require a particularly 
circuitous explanation that would probably be in bad faith).



On 2017-11-13 10:29, Kerim Aydin wrote:


That's just taken care of at least.

The only other comment I have is that later in the same rule,
it says "the first seven days of the month" and the second 7 days,
and so the rule may be self-contradictory, in which case by R2240,
the later clause beats the earlier clause (same net result).

And interesting argument overall I hadn't thought about that!

On Mon, 13 Nov 2017, VJ Rada wrote:

This is actually pretty urgent to judge because if G. is eligible,
that creates an obligation on the Herald that must (and CAN only) be
satisfied today or tomorrow. Wheras if e isn't, nobody else is.
Otherwise, no comment on the merits.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:15 AM, Madeline  wrote:

My instinct here is to say that this rule is attempting to claim that an
Agoran Month is seven days long, and also that a player can declare emself
eligible during an Agoran Month. The first claim is overridden by Rule 1023
("Agoran Time"), while the second claim goes untouched - and as we are
always within an Agoran Month, a player can always declare emself eligible
and that this would be TRUE. Anything I'm missing or any precedent I should
be aware of?


On 2017-11-13 09:10, Kerim Aydin wrote:



On Tue, 7 Nov 2017, VJ Rada wrote:

Shiny CFJ: G. is eligible for a Medal of Honour.

This is CFJ 3594.  I assign it to Telnaior.


Arguments:


The medal of honour rule says "in the week of an agoran month",
players can declare themselves eligible for a Notice. Munn meant first
week. Can G. now declare emself eligible?

On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 1:07 PM, ATMunn  wrote:
I have no idea if this actually worked or not, since the rule is a
bit broken. We'll just... pretend it works...

On 11/6/2017 6:49 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:


  I declare myself eligible for a Medal of Honour.







--
 From V.J. Rada





Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3594 assigned to Telnaior

2017-11-12 Thread Kerim Aydin


That's just taken care of at least.

The only other comment I have is that later in the same rule,
it says "the first seven days of the month" and the second 7 days, 
and so the rule may be self-contradictory, in which case by R2240, 
the later clause beats the earlier clause (same net result).

And interesting argument overall I hadn't thought about that!

On Mon, 13 Nov 2017, VJ Rada wrote:
> This is actually pretty urgent to judge because if G. is eligible,
> that creates an obligation on the Herald that must (and CAN only) be
> satisfied today or tomorrow. Wheras if e isn't, nobody else is.
> Otherwise, no comment on the merits.
> 
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:15 AM, Madeline  wrote:
> > My instinct here is to say that this rule is attempting to claim that an
> > Agoran Month is seven days long, and also that a player can declare emself
> > eligible during an Agoran Month. The first claim is overridden by Rule 1023
> > ("Agoran Time"), while the second claim goes untouched - and as we are
> > always within an Agoran Month, a player can always declare emself eligible
> > and that this would be TRUE. Anything I'm missing or any precedent I should
> > be aware of?
> >
> >
> > On 2017-11-13 09:10, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, 7 Nov 2017, VJ Rada wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Shiny CFJ: G. is eligible for a Medal of Honour.
> >>
> >> This is CFJ 3594.  I assign it to Telnaior.
> >>
> >>
> >> Arguments:
> >>
> >>> The medal of honour rule says "in the week of an agoran month",
> >>> players can declare themselves eligible for a Notice. Munn meant first
> >>> week. Can G. now declare emself eligible?
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 1:07 PM, ATMunn  wrote:
> >>>I have no idea if this actually worked or not, since the rule is a
> >>> bit broken. We'll just... pretend it works...
> >>>
> >>>On 11/6/2017 6:49 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  I declare myself eligible for a Medal of Honour.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> From V.J. Rada
>



DIS: Re: BUS: Sillyness

2017-11-12 Thread VJ Rada
I don't think this creates a new rule: rather an endless obligation by
proposal. And I'm not sure whether or not it requires a pillar being
built in the *actual* sky.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:27 AM, Aris Merchant
 wrote:
> I submit the following proposal as my silly proposal. I appoint Trigon
> to be next week's silly person. If the appointment of Trigon failed, I
> appoint ATMunn to be next week's silly person.
>
> -Aris
>
> ---
>
> Title: Sky Pillars
> AI: 1.0
> Author: Aris
>
>
> It's hereby enacted
> (The name being redacted):
>
> If a player should leave the game,
> they will never be greeted with shame.
> Instead a pillar of memory will be built in the sky,
> it will last there forever,
> it never shall die.
> Tracked by whomever
> tracks tracker-less things,
> let's all watch the bountiful joy it brings
> to see the names of those gone before
> and the ways that they left, as they move into lore.



-- 
>From V.J. Rada


Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3594 assigned to Telnaior

2017-11-12 Thread Madeline
Alternatively, since 1023 ("Agoran Time") specifies only when Agoran 
Months start, and makes no claim about how long they last or even that 
we always be within one, Rule 2529 ("Medals of Honour") could be 
interpreted to clarify that an Agoran Month only lasts seven days, and 
the rest of the calendar month we aren't in any Agoran Month at all. I'm 
a little averse to this one because of how much it could break, but it's 
an option. >_>



On 2017-11-13 10:15, Madeline wrote:
My instinct here is to say that this rule is attempting to claim that 
an Agoran Month is seven days long, and also that a player can declare 
emself eligible during an Agoran Month. The first claim is overridden 
by Rule 1023 ("Agoran Time"), while the second claim goes untouched - 
and as we are always within an Agoran Month, a player can always 
declare emself eligible and that this would be TRUE. Anything I'm 
missing or any precedent I should be aware of?



On 2017-11-13 09:10, Kerim Aydin wrote:



On Tue, 7 Nov 2017, VJ Rada wrote:

Shiny CFJ: G. is eligible for a Medal of Honour.

This is CFJ 3594.  I assign it to Telnaior.


Arguments:


The medal of honour rule says "in the week of an agoran month",
players can declare themselves eligible for a Notice. Munn meant first
week. Can G. now declare emself eligible?

On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 1:07 PM, ATMunn  wrote:
   I have no idea if this actually worked or not, since the rule 
is a bit broken. We'll just... pretend it works...


   On 11/6/2017 6:49 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:


 I declare myself eligible for a Medal of Honour.










Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3594 assigned to Telnaior

2017-11-12 Thread VJ Rada
This is actually pretty urgent to judge because if G. is eligible,
that creates an obligation on the Herald that must (and CAN only) be
satisfied today or tomorrow. Wheras if e isn't, nobody else is.
Otherwise, no comment on the merits.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:15 AM, Madeline  wrote:
> My instinct here is to say that this rule is attempting to claim that an
> Agoran Month is seven days long, and also that a player can declare emself
> eligible during an Agoran Month. The first claim is overridden by Rule 1023
> ("Agoran Time"), while the second claim goes untouched - and as we are
> always within an Agoran Month, a player can always declare emself eligible
> and that this would be TRUE. Anything I'm missing or any precedent I should
> be aware of?
>
>
> On 2017-11-13 09:10, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 7 Nov 2017, VJ Rada wrote:
>>>
>>> Shiny CFJ: G. is eligible for a Medal of Honour.
>>
>> This is CFJ 3594.  I assign it to Telnaior.
>>
>>
>> Arguments:
>>
>>> The medal of honour rule says "in the week of an agoran month",
>>> players can declare themselves eligible for a Notice. Munn meant first
>>> week. Can G. now declare emself eligible?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 1:07 PM, ATMunn  wrote:
>>>I have no idea if this actually worked or not, since the rule is a
>>> bit broken. We'll just... pretend it works...
>>>
>>>On 11/6/2017 6:49 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>  I declare myself eligible for a Medal of Honour.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>



-- 
>From V.J. Rada


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Silly Parties

2017-11-12 Thread Madeline

That's fair, yeah, I missed that.


On 2017-11-13 10:11, Aris Merchant wrote:

Yeah, but that's disputed and has been CFJed. This way I can't get in
trouble for distributing a non-pending proposal.

-Aris

On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 3:09 PM Madeline  wrote:


It is - Silly Proposals are Official Proposals, which are automatically
pending.


On 2017-11-13 10:05, Aris Merchant wrote:

If "Backed Out the Door" is not pending, I pend it for 1 AP.

-Aris


On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 2:52 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:

PF

On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 9:52 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:

I call an AP CFJ w/ the statement: "Alexis's proposal 'Backed Out the
Door' is a 'truly hideous pun' under rule 1650."

Pretty self-explanatory. I think it does include puns, but that doesn't
mean it IS a pun.



On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Alexis Hunt  wrote:

Silly Proposal: Backed Out the Door (AI=2, coauthors=Telnaior, ais523,
Aris,
G.)
{{{
Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Political Parties", reading as
follows:

There are 5 Parties, in order:

- Platonic Isolationists
- New Punchbowl Reformers
- Costume Conservatives
- Substance Use Liberals
- Official Raving Monster Looney Party

Politicians are entities; each Politician has a name and an
associated Party. Politicians exist only as specified by the
rules. Creating, altering, or destroying Politicians is

secured.

If there are ever fewer than 20 Politicians, then the Clork CAN
and SHALL, by announcement, create a new Politician, specifying
eir Party and name. The Party must be selected at random from:

- If any Party has fewer than 3 Politicans, the Party or

Parties

  with the fewest.
- Otherwise, the Parties with fewer than 5 Politicians.

Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Clork", reading as follows:

The Clork (pronounced "clark") is an office. The Clork's weekly
report includes:
- a list of all Politicans with their names and Parties.
- the assignment of Policies to Parties.

The portion of a document purporting to be a Clork's report
containing the above information is self-ratifying.

Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Echelon Forms", reading as follows:

A Post is a position which can be held by at most one

Politician.

Each Politican can hold at most one Post at a time. Each Post

is

in an Echelon, which has an associated Rank. The Echelons, and
their Posts and Ranks, are as follows:

Chamber of Power (Rank 5):
- Host
Upper Echelon (Rank 3):
- Planner
- Enforcer
- Organizer
- Creep
Row Echelon (Rank 1):
- Schmoozer
- Decorator
- Loner
- Drunk
- Mystery
- Wild One
- Hat Rack

Each Politician who holds a Post is in the Echelon of that

post;

other Politicians are in the Row-Reduced Echelon, which has

Rank

0. Likewise, the Rank of a Post or Politician is the Rank of

their

Echelon.

If a rule provides that a Post can take an action, then the
Advisor of the holder of that Post CAN take that action. If

there

is no such player, and the Post is required to take that

action,

then the Clork CAN do it prior to any deadline for its
performance. After a deadline for a Post to perform an action,

any

player CAN take it.
Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Taken Under Advisement", reading as
follows:

Advisor is a Politician switch, tracked by the Clork, with
possible values all players and none (default). For each
Politician, Influence over  is a natural player
switch, tracked by the Clork.

A player CAN, by announcement, spend Favours in a Party to gain
Influence over that Politican, depending on the Politician's
Echelon:
- Chamber of Power: 3 Favours for 2 Influence
- Upper Echelon: 1 Favour for 1 Influence
- Row Echelon: 2 Favours for 3 Influence
- Row-Reduced Echelon: 1 Favour for 2 Influence

If a player has more Influence over a given Politician than any
other player, e can Advise that Politican by announcement.

When e

does so, if no other player Advises the same Politician later

in

the same Agoran week, then at the start of the next Agoran

week,

that player becomes that Politician's Advisor.

Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Balloons", reading as follows:

Balloons are a fixed currency, tracked by the Clork, with
ownership restricted to players. Creation or destruction of
balloons is secured.

At the start of each Agoran week, after Advisors are flipped:
- For each player, if e owns more Balloons than e was awarded

by

  this 

DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] CFJ 3594 assigned to Telnaior

2017-11-12 Thread Madeline
My instinct here is to say that this rule is attempting to claim that an 
Agoran Month is seven days long, and also that a player can declare 
emself eligible during an Agoran Month. The first claim is overridden by 
Rule 1023 ("Agoran Time"), while the second claim goes untouched - and 
as we are always within an Agoran Month, a player can always declare 
emself eligible and that this would be TRUE. Anything I'm missing or any 
precedent I should be aware of?



On 2017-11-13 09:10, Kerim Aydin wrote:



On Tue, 7 Nov 2017, VJ Rada wrote:

Shiny CFJ: G. is eligible for a Medal of Honour.

This is CFJ 3594.  I assign it to Telnaior.


Arguments:


The medal of honour rule says "in the week of an agoran month",
players can declare themselves eligible for a Notice. Munn meant first
week. Can G. now declare emself eligible?

On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 1:07 PM, ATMunn  wrote:
   I have no idea if this actually worked or not, since the rule is a bit 
broken. We'll just... pretend it works...

   On 11/6/2017 6:49 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:


 I declare myself eligible for a Medal of Honour.








Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Silly Parties

2017-11-12 Thread Kerim Aydin


On Mon, 13 Nov 2017, VJ Rada wrote:
> By the way, Aris, have you appointed a Silly Person for next week?
> Just fair notice that that's an obligation.

Oh yes please do Aris.  Rule unfortunately requires a week without a 
silly person if previous person doesn't name one (was mulling a fix 
for that anyway...)





Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 7948-7953

2017-11-12 Thread VJ Rada
Can you post the full text of what "Boo!" does?

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:12 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
 wrote:
> Accepted.
>
> I resolve the decision(s) to adopt proposal(s) 7948-7953 below.
>
> 
>
> [This notice resolves the Agoran decisions of whether to adopt the
>  following proposals.  For each decision, the options available to
>  Agora are ADOPTED (*), REJECTED (x), and FAILED QUORUM (!). If a
>  decision's voting period is still ongoing, I end it immediately
>  before resolving it and after resolving the previous decision.]
> ID Author(s)  AI   TitlePender  Pend fee
> ---
> 7948*  o  1.0  FV Restoration   o   2 sh.
> 7949x  V.J. Rada  3.0  HYGAVTFT [7] V.J. Rada   2 sh.
> 7950*  G. 2.0  B!   G.  OP [2]
> 7951*  G. 1.0  Zombie Auctions  G.  OP [2]
> 7952*  G. 2.0  It LIVES G.  1 AP
> 7953*  Alexis 3.0  Vote Specification Fix   Alexis  1 AP
>
> | | 7948 | 7949 | 7950 | 7951 | 7952 | 7953 |
> |-+--+--+--+--+--+--+
> |Alexis   | FF   | AA   | AA   | AA   | FF   | FF   |
> |Aris | F| A| F| F| F| F|
> |ATMunn   | F| A| F| F| F| F|
> |o| F| A| F| A| A| F|
> |PSS  | F| A| F| F| F| F|
> |Telnaior | F| A| A| F| F| F|
> |Trigon   | F| A| F| F| F| F|
> |VJ Rada  | F| F| F| A| F| F|
> |-+--+--+--+--+--+--+
> |F/A  | 9/0  | 1/8  | 6/3  | 5/4  | 8/1  | 9/0  |
> |AI   | 1.0  | 3.0  | 2.0  | 1.0  | 2.0  | 3.0  |
> |V| 8| 8| 8| 8| 8| 8|
> |Q| 8| 8| 8| 8| 8| 8|
> |P| T| F| T| T| T| T|
>
> //
> ID: 7948
> Title: FV Restoration
> Adoption index: 1.0
> Author: o
> Co-authors:
>
>
> If rule 2456 (“The Treasuror”) does not already contain it, add the following
> paragraph to the end of that rule:
>
>   The Treasuror CAN flip the floating value once a week by announcement. As 
> part
>   of eir weekly duties, e SHALL flip the Floating Value to the number of 
> Shinies
>   owned by Agora; e SHALL NOT ever set it to a different value.
>   E SHOULD do this while publishing eir weekly report. If the Treasuror
>   discovers that e last flipped the floating value to an incorrect value and e
>   would not otherwise be able to set it again yet, e CAN and SHALL set the 
> value
>   to what it should have been set to in the first place by announcement.
>
> //
> ID: 7951
> Title: Zombie Auctions
> Adoption index: 1.0
> Author: G.
> Co-authors:
> OFFICIAL PROPOSAL
>
>
> Re-enact Rule 1885 (power-1) with a title "Zombie Auctions" and the
> following text:
>
>   Whenever a zombie has Agora for a master and an auction for it
>   is not underway or been won in the last seven days, then the
>   Registrar CAN and SHALL, in a timely fashion, put the specified
>   zombie up for auction by announcement. Each auction ends seven
>   days after it begins.
>
>   During an auction, any player who is not a zombie CAN bid a
>   number of Shinies for the specified zombie by announcement.
>
>   The winner of the auction, if any, is the player who bids the
>   highest number of shinies, with ties broken in favor of the
>   earlier bidder.  The winner CAN and SHALL, in a timely fashion,
>   flip the zombie's master to the winner by announcement, if e
>   pays Agora the amount of the bid for the explicit and sole
>   purpose of fulfilling this requirement. If there are no bids,
>   the auction has no winner.
>
>   If a zombie being auctioned ceases to have Agora as a master at
>   any time between the initiation of the auction and the winner
>   becoming the zombie's master (or failing to do so in a timely
>   fashion after the auction), then the auction has no winner, and
>   any obligations to pay for the zombie are voided.
>
> //
> ID: 7952
> Title: It LIVES
> Adoption index: 2.0
> Author: G.
> Co-authors:
>
>
> Increase the power of R1885 (Zombie Auctions) to 2.
>
> //
> ID: 7953
> Title: Vote Specification Fix
> Adoption index: 3.0
> Author: Alexis
> Co-authors:
>
>
> Amend rule 107 (Initiating Agoran Decisions) by replacing the list item "A 
> clear
> indication of the set of valid votes." with two list items: "The voting 

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Silly Parties

2017-11-12 Thread VJ Rada
By the way, Aris, have you appointed a Silly Person for next week?
Just fair notice that that's an obligation.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:11 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> There's a pending CFJ contending that it isn't silly, is the reason e
> did that. Obviously AP resets in 50 minutes so the conditional has no
> game impact, and it would be less uncertain to have it pending than
> not.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:09 AM, Madeline  wrote:
>> It is - Silly Proposals are Official Proposals, which are automatically
>> pending.
>>
>>
>> On 2017-11-13 10:05, Aris Merchant wrote:
>>>
>>> If "Backed Out the Door" is not pending, I pend it for 1 AP.
>>>
>>> -Aris
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 2:52 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:

 PF


 On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 9:52 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:
>
> I call an AP CFJ w/ the statement: "Alexis's proposal 'Backed Out the
> Door' is a 'truly hideous pun' under rule 1650."
>
> Pretty self-explanatory. I think it does include puns, but that doesn't
> mean it IS a pun.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Alexis Hunt  wrote:
>>
>> Silly Proposal: Backed Out the Door (AI=2, coauthors=Telnaior, ais523,
>> Aris,
>> G.)
>> {{{
>> Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Political Parties", reading as
>> follows:
>>
>>There are 5 Parties, in order:
>>
>>- Platonic Isolationists
>>- New Punchbowl Reformers
>>- Costume Conservatives
>>- Substance Use Liberals
>>- Official Raving Monster Looney Party
>>
>>Politicians are entities; each Politician has a name and an
>>associated Party. Politicians exist only as specified by the
>>rules. Creating, altering, or destroying Politicians is secured.
>>
>>If there are ever fewer than 20 Politicians, then the Clork CAN
>>and SHALL, by announcement, create a new Politician, specifying
>>eir Party and name. The Party must be selected at random from:
>>
>>- If any Party has fewer than 3 Politicans, the Party or Parties
>>  with the fewest.
>>- Otherwise, the Parties with fewer than 5 Politicians.
>>
>> Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Clork", reading as follows:
>>
>>The Clork (pronounced "clark") is an office. The Clork's weekly
>>report includes:
>>- a list of all Politicans with their names and Parties.
>>- the assignment of Policies to Parties.
>>
>>The portion of a document purporting to be a Clork's report
>>containing the above information is self-ratifying.
>>
>> Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Echelon Forms", reading as follows:
>>
>>A Post is a position which can be held by at most one
>> Politician.
>>Each Politican can hold at most one Post at a time. Each Post is
>>in an Echelon, which has an associated Rank. The Echelons, and
>>their Posts and Ranks, are as follows:
>>
>>Chamber of Power (Rank 5):
>>- Host
>>Upper Echelon (Rank 3):
>>- Planner
>>- Enforcer
>>- Organizer
>>- Creep
>>Row Echelon (Rank 1):
>>- Schmoozer
>>- Decorator
>>- Loner
>>- Drunk
>>- Mystery
>>- Wild One
>>- Hat Rack
>>
>>Each Politician who holds a Post is in the Echelon of that post;
>>other Politicians are in the Row-Reduced Echelon, which has Rank
>>0. Likewise, the Rank of a Post or Politician is the Rank of
>> their
>>Echelon.
>>
>>If a rule provides that a Post can take an action, then the
>>Advisor of the holder of that Post CAN take that action. If
>> there
>>is no such player, and the Post is required to take that action,
>>then the Clork CAN do it prior to any deadline for its
>>performance. After a deadline for a Post to perform an action,
>> any
>>player CAN take it.
>> Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Taken Under Advisement", reading as
>> follows:
>>
>>Advisor is a Politician switch, tracked by the Clork, with
>>possible values all players and none (default). For each
>>Politician, Influence over  is a natural player
>>switch, tracked by the Clork.
>>
>>A player CAN, by announcement, spend Favours in a Party to gain
>>Influence over that Politican, depending on the Politician's
>>Echelon:
>>- Chamber of Power: 3 Favours for 2 Influence
>>- Upper Echelon: 1 Favour for 1 Influence
>>  

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Silly Parties

2017-11-12 Thread VJ Rada
There's a pending CFJ contending that it isn't silly, is the reason e
did that. Obviously AP resets in 50 minutes so the conditional has no
game impact, and it would be less uncertain to have it pending than
not.



On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:09 AM, Madeline  wrote:
> It is - Silly Proposals are Official Proposals, which are automatically
> pending.
>
>
> On 2017-11-13 10:05, Aris Merchant wrote:
>>
>> If "Backed Out the Door" is not pending, I pend it for 1 AP.
>>
>> -Aris
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 2:52 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:
>>>
>>> PF
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 9:52 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:

 I call an AP CFJ w/ the statement: "Alexis's proposal 'Backed Out the
 Door' is a 'truly hideous pun' under rule 1650."

 Pretty self-explanatory. I think it does include puns, but that doesn't
 mean it IS a pun.



 On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Alexis Hunt  wrote:
>
> Silly Proposal: Backed Out the Door (AI=2, coauthors=Telnaior, ais523,
> Aris,
> G.)
> {{{
> Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Political Parties", reading as
> follows:
>
>There are 5 Parties, in order:
>
>- Platonic Isolationists
>- New Punchbowl Reformers
>- Costume Conservatives
>- Substance Use Liberals
>- Official Raving Monster Looney Party
>
>Politicians are entities; each Politician has a name and an
>associated Party. Politicians exist only as specified by the
>rules. Creating, altering, or destroying Politicians is secured.
>
>If there are ever fewer than 20 Politicians, then the Clork CAN
>and SHALL, by announcement, create a new Politician, specifying
>eir Party and name. The Party must be selected at random from:
>
>- If any Party has fewer than 3 Politicans, the Party or Parties
>  with the fewest.
>- Otherwise, the Parties with fewer than 5 Politicians.
>
> Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Clork", reading as follows:
>
>The Clork (pronounced "clark") is an office. The Clork's weekly
>report includes:
>- a list of all Politicans with their names and Parties.
>- the assignment of Policies to Parties.
>
>The portion of a document purporting to be a Clork's report
>containing the above information is self-ratifying.
>
> Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Echelon Forms", reading as follows:
>
>A Post is a position which can be held by at most one
> Politician.
>Each Politican can hold at most one Post at a time. Each Post is
>in an Echelon, which has an associated Rank. The Echelons, and
>their Posts and Ranks, are as follows:
>
>Chamber of Power (Rank 5):
>- Host
>Upper Echelon (Rank 3):
>- Planner
>- Enforcer
>- Organizer
>- Creep
>Row Echelon (Rank 1):
>- Schmoozer
>- Decorator
>- Loner
>- Drunk
>- Mystery
>- Wild One
>- Hat Rack
>
>Each Politician who holds a Post is in the Echelon of that post;
>other Politicians are in the Row-Reduced Echelon, which has Rank
>0. Likewise, the Rank of a Post or Politician is the Rank of
> their
>Echelon.
>
>If a rule provides that a Post can take an action, then the
>Advisor of the holder of that Post CAN take that action. If
> there
>is no such player, and the Post is required to take that action,
>then the Clork CAN do it prior to any deadline for its
>performance. After a deadline for a Post to perform an action,
> any
>player CAN take it.
> Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Taken Under Advisement", reading as
> follows:
>
>Advisor is a Politician switch, tracked by the Clork, with
>possible values all players and none (default). For each
>Politician, Influence over  is a natural player
>switch, tracked by the Clork.
>
>A player CAN, by announcement, spend Favours in a Party to gain
>Influence over that Politican, depending on the Politician's
>Echelon:
>- Chamber of Power: 3 Favours for 2 Influence
>- Upper Echelon: 1 Favour for 1 Influence
>- Row Echelon: 2 Favours for 3 Influence
>- Row-Reduced Echelon: 1 Favour for 2 Influence
>
>If a player has more Influence over a given Politician than any
>other player, e can Advise that Politican by announcement. When
> e
>does so, if no other 

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Silly Parties

2017-11-12 Thread Aris Merchant
Yeah, but that's disputed and has been CFJed. This way I can't get in
trouble for distributing a non-pending proposal.

-Aris

On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 3:09 PM Madeline  wrote:

> It is - Silly Proposals are Official Proposals, which are automatically
> pending.
>
>
> On 2017-11-13 10:05, Aris Merchant wrote:
> > If "Backed Out the Door" is not pending, I pend it for 1 AP.
> >
> > -Aris
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 2:52 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> >> PF
> >>
> >> On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 9:52 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> >>> I call an AP CFJ w/ the statement: "Alexis's proposal 'Backed Out the
> >>> Door' is a 'truly hideous pun' under rule 1650."
> >>>
> >>> Pretty self-explanatory. I think it does include puns, but that doesn't
> >>> mean it IS a pun.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Alexis Hunt  wrote:
>  Silly Proposal: Backed Out the Door (AI=2, coauthors=Telnaior, ais523,
>  Aris,
>  G.)
>  {{{
>  Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Political Parties", reading as
>  follows:
> 
> There are 5 Parties, in order:
> 
> - Platonic Isolationists
> - New Punchbowl Reformers
> - Costume Conservatives
> - Substance Use Liberals
> - Official Raving Monster Looney Party
> 
> Politicians are entities; each Politician has a name and an
> associated Party. Politicians exist only as specified by the
> rules. Creating, altering, or destroying Politicians is
> secured.
> 
> If there are ever fewer than 20 Politicians, then the Clork CAN
> and SHALL, by announcement, create a new Politician, specifying
> eir Party and name. The Party must be selected at random from:
> 
> - If any Party has fewer than 3 Politicans, the Party or
> Parties
>   with the fewest.
> - Otherwise, the Parties with fewer than 5 Politicians.
> 
>  Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Clork", reading as follows:
> 
> The Clork (pronounced "clark") is an office. The Clork's weekly
> report includes:
> - a list of all Politicans with their names and Parties.
> - the assignment of Policies to Parties.
> 
> The portion of a document purporting to be a Clork's report
> containing the above information is self-ratifying.
> 
>  Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Echelon Forms", reading as follows:
> 
> A Post is a position which can be held by at most one
> Politician.
> Each Politican can hold at most one Post at a time. Each Post
> is
> in an Echelon, which has an associated Rank. The Echelons, and
> their Posts and Ranks, are as follows:
> 
> Chamber of Power (Rank 5):
> - Host
> Upper Echelon (Rank 3):
> - Planner
> - Enforcer
> - Organizer
> - Creep
> Row Echelon (Rank 1):
> - Schmoozer
> - Decorator
> - Loner
> - Drunk
> - Mystery
> - Wild One
> - Hat Rack
> 
> Each Politician who holds a Post is in the Echelon of that
> post;
> other Politicians are in the Row-Reduced Echelon, which has
> Rank
> 0. Likewise, the Rank of a Post or Politician is the Rank of
> their
> Echelon.
> 
> If a rule provides that a Post can take an action, then the
> Advisor of the holder of that Post CAN take that action. If
> there
> is no such player, and the Post is required to take that
> action,
> then the Clork CAN do it prior to any deadline for its
> performance. After a deadline for a Post to perform an action,
> any
> player CAN take it.
>  Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Taken Under Advisement", reading as
>  follows:
> 
> Advisor is a Politician switch, tracked by the Clork, with
> possible values all players and none (default). For each
> Politician, Influence over  is a natural player
> switch, tracked by the Clork.
> 
> A player CAN, by announcement, spend Favours in a Party to gain
> Influence over that Politican, depending on the Politician's
> Echelon:
> - Chamber of Power: 3 Favours for 2 Influence
> - Upper Echelon: 1 Favour for 1 Influence
> - Row Echelon: 2 Favours for 3 Influence
> - Row-Reduced Echelon: 1 Favour for 2 Influence
> 
> If a player has more Influence over a given Politician than any
> other player, e can Advise that Politican by announcement.
> When e
> does so, if no other player 

DIS: Re: BUS: Silly Parties

2017-11-12 Thread Madeline
It is - Silly Proposals are Official Proposals, which are automatically 
pending.



On 2017-11-13 10:05, Aris Merchant wrote:

If "Backed Out the Door" is not pending, I pend it for 1 AP.

-Aris


On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 2:52 PM, VJ Rada  wrote:

PF

On Tue, Nov 7, 2017 at 9:52 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:

I call an AP CFJ w/ the statement: "Alexis's proposal 'Backed Out the
Door' is a 'truly hideous pun' under rule 1650."

Pretty self-explanatory. I think it does include puns, but that doesn't
mean it IS a pun.



On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Alexis Hunt  wrote:

Silly Proposal: Backed Out the Door (AI=2, coauthors=Telnaior, ais523,
Aris,
G.)
{{{
Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Political Parties", reading as
follows:

   There are 5 Parties, in order:

   - Platonic Isolationists
   - New Punchbowl Reformers
   - Costume Conservatives
   - Substance Use Liberals
   - Official Raving Monster Looney Party

   Politicians are entities; each Politician has a name and an
   associated Party. Politicians exist only as specified by the
   rules. Creating, altering, or destroying Politicians is secured.

   If there are ever fewer than 20 Politicians, then the Clork CAN
   and SHALL, by announcement, create a new Politician, specifying
   eir Party and name. The Party must be selected at random from:

   - If any Party has fewer than 3 Politicans, the Party or Parties
 with the fewest.
   - Otherwise, the Parties with fewer than 5 Politicians.

Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Clork", reading as follows:

   The Clork (pronounced "clark") is an office. The Clork's weekly
   report includes:
   - a list of all Politicans with their names and Parties.
   - the assignment of Policies to Parties.

   The portion of a document purporting to be a Clork's report
   containing the above information is self-ratifying.

Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Echelon Forms", reading as follows:

   A Post is a position which can be held by at most one Politician.
   Each Politican can hold at most one Post at a time. Each Post is
   in an Echelon, which has an associated Rank. The Echelons, and
   their Posts and Ranks, are as follows:

   Chamber of Power (Rank 5):
   - Host
   Upper Echelon (Rank 3):
   - Planner
   - Enforcer
   - Organizer
   - Creep
   Row Echelon (Rank 1):
   - Schmoozer
   - Decorator
   - Loner
   - Drunk
   - Mystery
   - Wild One
   - Hat Rack

   Each Politician who holds a Post is in the Echelon of that post;
   other Politicians are in the Row-Reduced Echelon, which has Rank
   0. Likewise, the Rank of a Post or Politician is the Rank of their
   Echelon.

   If a rule provides that a Post can take an action, then the
   Advisor of the holder of that Post CAN take that action. If there
   is no such player, and the Post is required to take that action,
   then the Clork CAN do it prior to any deadline for its
   performance. After a deadline for a Post to perform an action, any
   player CAN take it.
Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Taken Under Advisement", reading as
follows:

   Advisor is a Politician switch, tracked by the Clork, with
   possible values all players and none (default). For each
   Politician, Influence over  is a natural player
   switch, tracked by the Clork.

   A player CAN, by announcement, spend Favours in a Party to gain
   Influence over that Politican, depending on the Politician's
   Echelon:
   - Chamber of Power: 3 Favours for 2 Influence
   - Upper Echelon: 1 Favour for 1 Influence
   - Row Echelon: 2 Favours for 3 Influence
   - Row-Reduced Echelon: 1 Favour for 2 Influence

   If a player has more Influence over a given Politician than any
   other player, e can Advise that Politican by announcement. When e
   does so, if no other player Advises the same Politician later in
   the same Agoran week, then at the start of the next Agoran week,
   that player becomes that Politician's Advisor.

Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Balloons", reading as follows:

   Balloons are a fixed currency, tracked by the Clork, with
   ownership restricted to players. Creation or destruction of
   balloons is secured.

   At the start of each Agoran week, after Advisors are flipped:
   - For each player, if e owns more Balloons than e was awarded by
 this procedure at the start of the previous week, any excess
 Balloons are destroyed.
   - Each player is awarded Balloons equal to the sum of the Ranks of
 the Politicians for which e is Advisor.
   - The Decorator's Advisor, if any is awarded one additional
 Balloon.

   A player CAN, by announcement, spend a Balloon e owns to increase
   

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] Court Gazette

2017-11-12 Thread Kerim Aydin


Of course!  Also done.

On Mon, 13 Nov 2017, Madeline wrote:
> I also wouldn't mind going onto the Day Court if you consider me suitable.
> 
> 
> On 2017-11-13 10:03, VJ Rada wrote:
> > Given that there are now 2 day-court people and 5 weekenders, a
> > seemingly bad ratio, whack me on the day court, please (it's not as if
> > I don't call half of CFJs anyway rip).




Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] Court Gazette

2017-11-12 Thread Madeline

I also wouldn't mind going onto the Day Court if you consider me suitable.


On 2017-11-13 10:03, VJ Rada wrote:

Given that there are now 2 day-court people and 5 weekenders, a
seemingly bad ratio, whack me on the day court, please (it's not as if
I don't call half of CFJs anyway rip).

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:



COURT GAZETTE [Arbitor's Weekly Report for 12 Nov 2017]


Open Cases (CFJs)

[* = overdue, ! = <24 hours before deadline]

3591 Motioned to Publius  (due Sat, 18 Nov 2017 ~03:14:10)
3592 Assigned to o(due Sun, 19 Nov 2017 ~22:02:39)
3593 Assigned to ATMunn   (due Sun, 19 Nov 2017 ~22:04:09)
3594 Assigned to Telnaior (due Sun, 19 Nov 2017 ~22:10:28)
3595 Assigned to G.   (due Sun, 19 Nov 2017 ~22:14:02)
3596 Assigned to G.   (due Sun, 19 Nov 2017 ~22:16:00)
3597 Assigned to Aris (due Sun, 19 Nov 2017 ~22:19:51)


Recently-Delivered Verdicts and Implications

[** = consider for rules annotation, ! = delivered late]

3589 by Aris:  Can't promise a million dollars if your contract is no good.

3590 by o:  Found that some subject line actions fail tests of working
using CFJ 3409 standards.

3591 by Publius:  Initial finding that re-ratifying an alleged voting
report does not re-resolve the decision (Motion to Reconsider filed).


Bench Roster

Judge  Court[***]   Recent
-  ---
G. Night3556, 3567, 3563, 3579, 3580, 3582, 3595, 3596
PubliusNight3558, 3561, 3574, 3576, 3591
o  Day  3568, 3565, 3572, 3584, 3590, 3592
Aris   Day  3557, 3562, 3577, 3578, 3589, 3597
Alexis Weekend  3573, 3581, 3587, 3588
V.J. Rada  Weekend  3585
NichdelWeekend  3571, 3583
Telnaior   Weekend  3586, 3594
ATMunn Weekend  3593

Highest Numbered Case:   3597

[***] Court Descriptions

Day Court   [Default, rotate roster through as needed].

Night Court [Assigned quick turnaround cases (either trivial or
  game-urgent), generally promises to judge in 4 days].

Weekend Court [Backup/partial rotation, generally gets half as many
cases each as Day Court].

Courts are informal relative levels of "interest" in judging as per
R991.  Players can change Court by notifying the Arbitor.


DISCLAIMER
   Informational only - No actions are contained in this report.
   Information in this report is NOT self-ratifying.












Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] Court Gazette

2017-11-12 Thread Kerim Aydin


Will do and appreciated.  (Night gets pretty much the same load as Day 
except when there's urgent cases, so it's not as uneven as it looks).

And yeah - I've noted that your tendency to call a lot means there
are fewer that I can assign you to!  About half your light load to
date is because weekend, the other half because of that tendency...

On Mon, 13 Nov 2017, VJ Rada wrote:
> Given that there are now 2 day-court people and 5 weekenders, a
> seemingly bad ratio, whack me on the day court, please (it's not as if
> I don't call half of CFJs anyway rip).




DIS: Re: OFF: [Arbitor] Court Gazette

2017-11-12 Thread VJ Rada
Given that there are now 2 day-court people and 5 weekenders, a
seemingly bad ratio, whack me on the day court, please (it's not as if
I don't call half of CFJs anyway rip).

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 9:42 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
>
>
> 
> COURT GAZETTE [Arbitor's Weekly Report for 12 Nov 2017]
>
>
> Open Cases (CFJs)
> 
> [* = overdue, ! = <24 hours before deadline]
>
> 3591 Motioned to Publius  (due Sat, 18 Nov 2017 ~03:14:10)
> 3592 Assigned to o(due Sun, 19 Nov 2017 ~22:02:39)
> 3593 Assigned to ATMunn   (due Sun, 19 Nov 2017 ~22:04:09)
> 3594 Assigned to Telnaior (due Sun, 19 Nov 2017 ~22:10:28)
> 3595 Assigned to G.   (due Sun, 19 Nov 2017 ~22:14:02)
> 3596 Assigned to G.   (due Sun, 19 Nov 2017 ~22:16:00)
> 3597 Assigned to Aris (due Sun, 19 Nov 2017 ~22:19:51)
>
>
> Recently-Delivered Verdicts and Implications
> 
> [** = consider for rules annotation, ! = delivered late]
>
> 3589 by Aris:  Can't promise a million dollars if your contract is no good.
>
> 3590 by o:  Found that some subject line actions fail tests of working
> using CFJ 3409 standards.
>
> 3591 by Publius:  Initial finding that re-ratifying an alleged voting
> report does not re-resolve the decision (Motion to Reconsider filed).
>
>
> Bench Roster
>
> Judge  Court[***]   Recent
> -  ---
> G. Night3556, 3567, 3563, 3579, 3580, 3582, 3595, 3596
> PubliusNight3558, 3561, 3574, 3576, 3591
> o  Day  3568, 3565, 3572, 3584, 3590, 3592
> Aris   Day  3557, 3562, 3577, 3578, 3589, 3597
> Alexis Weekend  3573, 3581, 3587, 3588
> V.J. Rada  Weekend  3585
> NichdelWeekend  3571, 3583
> Telnaior   Weekend  3586, 3594
> ATMunn Weekend  3593
>
> Highest Numbered Case:   3597
> 
> [***] Court Descriptions
>
> Day Court   [Default, rotate roster through as needed].
>
> Night Court [Assigned quick turnaround cases (either trivial or
>  game-urgent), generally promises to judge in 4 days].
>
> Weekend Court [Backup/partial rotation, generally gets half as many
>cases each as Day Court].
>
> Courts are informal relative levels of "interest" in judging as per
> R991.  Players can change Court by notifying the Arbitor.
> 
>
> DISCLAIMER
>   Informational only - No actions are contained in this report.
>   Information in this report is NOT self-ratifying.
>
> 
>
>
>



-- 
>From V.J. Rada


DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 7948-7953

2017-11-12 Thread VJ Rada
Dude, I didn't vote present on everything. I'm like 99 % sure of that.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 10:00 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> BOO! FAILED BUT ZOMBIE AUCTIONS PASSED UGH.
>
> what even happens now.
>
> On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 9:17 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>  wrote:
>> I resolve the decision(s) to adopt proposal(s) 7948-7953 below.
>>
>> 
>>
>> [This notice resolves the Agoran decisions of whether to adopt the
>>  following proposals.  For each decision, the options available to
>>  Agora are ADOPTED (*), REJECTED (x), and FAILED QUORUM (!). If a
>>  decision's voting period is still ongoing, I end it immediately
>>  before resolving it and after resolving the previous decision.]
>> ID Author(s)  AI   TitlePender  Pend fee
>> ---
>> 7948*  o  1.0  FV Restoration   o   2 sh.
>> 7949x  V.J. Rada  3.0  HYGAVTFT [7] V.J. Rada   2 sh.
>> 7950x  G. 2.0  B!   G.  OP [2]
>> 7951*  G. 1.0  Zombie Auctions  G.  OP [2]
>> 7952*  G. 2.0  It LIVES G.  1 AP
>> 7953*  Alexis 3.0  Vote Specification Fix   Alexis  1 AP
>>
>> | | 7948 | 7949 | 7950 | 7951 | 7952 | 7953 |
>> |-+--+--+--+--+--+--+
>> |Alexis   | FF   | AA   | AA   | AA   | FF   | FF   |
>> |Aris | F| A| F| F| F| F|
>> |ATMunn   | F| A| F| F| F| F|
>> |o| F| A| F| A| A| F|
>> |PSS  | F| A| F| F| F| F|
>> |Telnaior | F| A| A| F| F| F|
>> |Trigon   | F| A| F| F| F| F|
>> |VJ Rada  | P| P| P| P| P| P|
>> |-+--+--+--+--+--+--+
>> |F/A  | 8/0  | 0/8  | 5/3  | 5/3  | 7/1  | 8/0  |
>> |AI   | 1.0  | 3.0  | 2.0  | 1.0  | 2.0  | 3.0  |
>> |V| 8| 8| 8| 8| 8| 8|
>> |Q| 8| 8| 8| 8| 8| 8|
>> |P| T| F| F| T| T| T|
>>
>> //
>> ID: 7948
>> Title: FV Restoration
>> Adoption index: 1.0
>> Author: o
>> Co-authors:
>>
>>
>> If rule 2456 (“The Treasuror”) does not already contain it, add the following
>> paragraph to the end of that rule:
>>
>>   The Treasuror CAN flip the floating value once a week by announcement. As 
>> part
>>   of eir weekly duties, e SHALL flip the Floating Value to the number of 
>> Shinies
>>   owned by Agora; e SHALL NOT ever set it to a different value.
>>   E SHOULD do this while publishing eir weekly report. If the Treasuror
>>   discovers that e last flipped the floating value to an incorrect value and 
>> e
>>   would not otherwise be able to set it again yet, e CAN and SHALL set the 
>> value
>>   to what it should have been set to in the first place by announcement.
>>
>> //
>> ID: 7951
>> Title: Zombie Auctions
>> Adoption index: 1.0
>> Author: G.
>> Co-authors:
>> OFFICIAL PROPOSAL
>>
>>
>> Re-enact Rule 1885 (power-1) with a title "Zombie Auctions" and the
>> following text:
>>
>>   Whenever a zombie has Agora for a master and an auction for it
>>   is not underway or been won in the last seven days, then the
>>   Registrar CAN and SHALL, in a timely fashion, put the specified
>>   zombie up for auction by announcement. Each auction ends seven
>>   days after it begins.
>>
>>   During an auction, any player who is not a zombie CAN bid a
>>   number of Shinies for the specified zombie by announcement.
>>
>>   The winner of the auction, if any, is the player who bids the
>>   highest number of shinies, with ties broken in favor of the
>>   earlier bidder.  The winner CAN and SHALL, in a timely fashion,
>>   flip the zombie's master to the winner by announcement, if e
>>   pays Agora the amount of the bid for the explicit and sole
>>   purpose of fulfilling this requirement. If there are no bids,
>>   the auction has no winner.
>>
>>   If a zombie being auctioned ceases to have Agora as a master at
>>   any time between the initiation of the auction and the winner
>>   becoming the zombie's master (or failing to do so in a timely
>>   fashion after the auction), then the auction has no winner, and
>>   any obligations to pay for the zombie are voided.
>>
>> //
>> ID: 7952
>> Title: It LIVES
>> Adoption index: 2.0
>> Author: G.
>> Co-authors:
>>
>>
>> Increase the power of R1885 (Zombie Auctions) to 2.
>>
>> 

DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 7948-7953

2017-11-12 Thread VJ Rada
BOO! FAILED BUT ZOMBIE AUCTIONS PASSED UGH.

what even happens now.

On Mon, Nov 13, 2017 at 9:17 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
 wrote:
> I resolve the decision(s) to adopt proposal(s) 7948-7953 below.
>
> 
>
> [This notice resolves the Agoran decisions of whether to adopt the
>  following proposals.  For each decision, the options available to
>  Agora are ADOPTED (*), REJECTED (x), and FAILED QUORUM (!). If a
>  decision's voting period is still ongoing, I end it immediately
>  before resolving it and after resolving the previous decision.]
> ID Author(s)  AI   TitlePender  Pend fee
> ---
> 7948*  o  1.0  FV Restoration   o   2 sh.
> 7949x  V.J. Rada  3.0  HYGAVTFT [7] V.J. Rada   2 sh.
> 7950x  G. 2.0  B!   G.  OP [2]
> 7951*  G. 1.0  Zombie Auctions  G.  OP [2]
> 7952*  G. 2.0  It LIVES G.  1 AP
> 7953*  Alexis 3.0  Vote Specification Fix   Alexis  1 AP
>
> | | 7948 | 7949 | 7950 | 7951 | 7952 | 7953 |
> |-+--+--+--+--+--+--+
> |Alexis   | FF   | AA   | AA   | AA   | FF   | FF   |
> |Aris | F| A| F| F| F| F|
> |ATMunn   | F| A| F| F| F| F|
> |o| F| A| F| A| A| F|
> |PSS  | F| A| F| F| F| F|
> |Telnaior | F| A| A| F| F| F|
> |Trigon   | F| A| F| F| F| F|
> |VJ Rada  | P| P| P| P| P| P|
> |-+--+--+--+--+--+--+
> |F/A  | 8/0  | 0/8  | 5/3  | 5/3  | 7/1  | 8/0  |
> |AI   | 1.0  | 3.0  | 2.0  | 1.0  | 2.0  | 3.0  |
> |V| 8| 8| 8| 8| 8| 8|
> |Q| 8| 8| 8| 8| 8| 8|
> |P| T| F| F| T| T| T|
>
> //
> ID: 7948
> Title: FV Restoration
> Adoption index: 1.0
> Author: o
> Co-authors:
>
>
> If rule 2456 (“The Treasuror”) does not already contain it, add the following
> paragraph to the end of that rule:
>
>   The Treasuror CAN flip the floating value once a week by announcement. As 
> part
>   of eir weekly duties, e SHALL flip the Floating Value to the number of 
> Shinies
>   owned by Agora; e SHALL NOT ever set it to a different value.
>   E SHOULD do this while publishing eir weekly report. If the Treasuror
>   discovers that e last flipped the floating value to an incorrect value and e
>   would not otherwise be able to set it again yet, e CAN and SHALL set the 
> value
>   to what it should have been set to in the first place by announcement.
>
> //
> ID: 7951
> Title: Zombie Auctions
> Adoption index: 1.0
> Author: G.
> Co-authors:
> OFFICIAL PROPOSAL
>
>
> Re-enact Rule 1885 (power-1) with a title "Zombie Auctions" and the
> following text:
>
>   Whenever a zombie has Agora for a master and an auction for it
>   is not underway or been won in the last seven days, then the
>   Registrar CAN and SHALL, in a timely fashion, put the specified
>   zombie up for auction by announcement. Each auction ends seven
>   days after it begins.
>
>   During an auction, any player who is not a zombie CAN bid a
>   number of Shinies for the specified zombie by announcement.
>
>   The winner of the auction, if any, is the player who bids the
>   highest number of shinies, with ties broken in favor of the
>   earlier bidder.  The winner CAN and SHALL, in a timely fashion,
>   flip the zombie's master to the winner by announcement, if e
>   pays Agora the amount of the bid for the explicit and sole
>   purpose of fulfilling this requirement. If there are no bids,
>   the auction has no winner.
>
>   If a zombie being auctioned ceases to have Agora as a master at
>   any time between the initiation of the auction and the winner
>   becoming the zombie's master (or failing to do so in a timely
>   fashion after the auction), then the auction has no winner, and
>   any obligations to pay for the zombie are voided.
>
> //
> ID: 7952
> Title: It LIVES
> Adoption index: 2.0
> Author: G.
> Co-authors:
>
>
> Increase the power of R1885 (Zombie Auctions) to 2.
>
> //
> ID: 7953
> Title: Vote Specification Fix
> Adoption index: 3.0
> Author: Alexis
> Co-authors:
>
>
> Amend rule 107 (Initiating Agoran Decisions) by replacing the list item "A 
> clear
> indication of the set of valid votes." with two list items: "The 

DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 7948-7953

2017-11-12 Thread Kerim Aydin


On Sun, 12 Nov 2017, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
> 7950x  G. 2.0  B!   G.  OP [2]
> 7951*  G. 1.0  Zombie Auctions  G.  OP [2]
> 7952*  G. 2.0  It LIVES G.  1 AP

Ooh, I like this.  "Whenever a zombie has agora for a master" we get
auctions, but zombies aren't defined.  one spooky star for Speaker 
Alexis (and time to deregister those folks?  sorry about that...)

Anyone want to make a contract with a Zombie asset and see what
happens there?




Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Can we telegraph this any more clearly?

2017-11-12 Thread Kerim Aydin



On Thu, 9 Nov 2017, Owen Jacobson wrote:
> I do think we need to tighten up what it means to pay, and to 
> spend, Shinies. How’s this for a sketch:
> 
> * Where the rules define an amount of an asset to be paid to a 
> recipient, any attempt to pay an amount other than the full 
> amount due is INEFFECTIVE.

I'd take a "nuke it from orbit" approach at this point, and 
excessively codify this into a formal Method (might be word-
smithed to be shortened, but keep all the ideas in the following:

If the rules specify that an action is performed by paying
or spending to do it, or that a non-negative currency-
denominated cost, price, or fee is associated with performing
it, then the action is performed by
paying the exact specified amount in a single
transaction for the announced purpose of performing that
action.  If the rules do not specify another recipient for
the funds, the funds must be paid to Agora.
If the currency transaction fails then the action
fails.  If the action fails for other reasons, then the
currency transaction fails.  If the currency of payment is
not specified, the default is shinies.

Does that cover everything?




Re: DIS: Auctions v4

2017-11-12 Thread Kerim Aydin


On Thu, 9 Nov 2017, Owen Jacobson wrote:
> Changes from v3:

To add:  "cancel all auctions in progress with no winner".  Better to
stop and re-start impending (I think??) Zombie auctions, on the new
rules then to end up with a weird clash.

To add:  "If zombie auction rule exists then... [amendment to zombie
auction procedure]."  I'll look a replacement text up later this 
afternoon when I'm off mobile.




Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Reportor] Agora Sky News vol 7

2017-11-12 Thread Kerim Aydin


A week or two is fine, for anyone.  But more than that e should step down,
work out a contracted replacement, or we should just run an election.

On Sun, 12 Nov 2017, ATMunn wrote:
> I agree. I think e said e was going to be pretty busy for a month or two, but
> still. Also, the wrapping is messed up.
> 
> On 11/12/2017 12:14 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Really we should put a word minimum on the newspaper; there were more
> > activities going on this week and this seems very low-effort to me.
> > 
> > I mean, if you can't even report your own Bard award to be "significant
> > or interesting", that's just very limited.
> > 
> > Do others have feelings on appropriate minimum effort?
> > 
> > On Sun, 12 Nov 2017, Josh T wrote:
> > > I claim a reward of 5 shinies for the report.
> > > 
> > > 天火狐
> > > 
> > > On 12 November 2017 at 11:29, Josh T  wrote:
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > = Agora Sky News
> > > > ===
> > > > ==
> > > > vol.
> > > > 7 ==
> > > > 
> > > >  Detective Institute Opens Doors
> > > > 
> > > > Aspiring investigators can now help Agoran citizens with solving
> > > > mysteries
> > > > with
> > > > the help of the newly opened Sherlock Holmes Institute. All mysteries,
> > > > large and
> > > > small, are welcome; if a mystery is brought to the institute and its
> > > > top-notch
> > > > investigators cannot resolve the case in a reasonable time frame, you
> > > > get
> > > > your
> > > > money back and then some for the inconvenience.
> > > > 
> > > >  天火狐
> > > > 
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Reportor] Agora Sky News vol 7

2017-11-12 Thread ATMunn

I think the Reportor office is a bit too pragmatic in general. I think some 
fixing could be done.

On 11/12/2017 12:21 PM, ATMunn wrote:

I agree. I think e said e was going to be pretty busy for a month or two, but 
still. Also, the wrapping is messed up.

On 11/12/2017 12:14 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:



Really we should put a word minimum on the newspaper; there were more
activities going on this week and this seems very low-effort to me.

I mean, if you can't even report your own Bard award to be "significant
or interesting", that's just very limited.

Do others have feelings on appropriate minimum effort?

On Sun, 12 Nov 2017, Josh T wrote:

I claim a reward of 5 shinies for the report.

天火狐

On 12 November 2017 at 11:29, Josh T  wrote:




= Agora Sky News
===
==
vol.
7 ==

  Detective Institute Opens Doors

Aspiring investigators can now help Agoran citizens with solving mysteries
with
the help of the newly opened Sherlock Holmes Institute. All mysteries,
large and
small, are welcome; if a mystery is brought to the institute and its
top-notch
investigators cannot resolve the case in a reasonable time frame, you get
your
money back and then some for the inconvenience.

  天火狐





Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Reportor] Agora Sky News vol 7

2017-11-12 Thread ATMunn

I agree. I think e said e was going to be pretty busy for a month or two, but 
still. Also, the wrapping is messed up.

On 11/12/2017 12:14 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:



Really we should put a word minimum on the newspaper; there were more
activities going on this week and this seems very low-effort to me.

I mean, if you can't even report your own Bard award to be "significant
or interesting", that's just very limited.

Do others have feelings on appropriate minimum effort?

On Sun, 12 Nov 2017, Josh T wrote:

I claim a reward of 5 shinies for the report.

天火狐

On 12 November 2017 at 11:29, Josh T  wrote:




= Agora Sky News
===
==
vol.
7 ==

  Detective Institute Opens Doors

Aspiring investigators can now help Agoran citizens with solving mysteries
with
the help of the newly opened Sherlock Holmes Institute. All mysteries,
large and
small, are welcome; if a mystery is brought to the institute and its
top-notch
investigators cannot resolve the case in a reasonable time frame, you get
your
money back and then some for the inconvenience.

  天火狐





DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Reportor] Agora Sky News vol 7

2017-11-12 Thread Kerim Aydin


Really we should put a word minimum on the newspaper; there were more
activities going on this week and this seems very low-effort to me.

I mean, if you can't even report your own Bard award to be "significant 
or interesting", that's just very limited.

Do others have feelings on appropriate minimum effort?

On Sun, 12 Nov 2017, Josh T wrote:
> I claim a reward of 5 shinies for the report.
> 
> 天火狐
> 
> On 12 November 2017 at 11:29, Josh T  wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > = Agora Sky News
> > ===
> > ==
> > vol.
> > 7 ==
> >
> >  Detective Institute Opens Doors
> >
> > Aspiring investigators can now help Agoran citizens with solving mysteries
> > with
> > the help of the newly opened Sherlock Holmes Institute. All mysteries,
> > large and
> > small, are welcome; if a mystery is brought to the institute and its
> > top-notch
> > investigators cannot resolve the case in a reasonable time frame, you get
> > your
> > money back and then some for the inconvenience.
> >
> >  天火狐
> >
>


Re: DIS: Auctions v4

2017-11-12 Thread ATMunn

My original intent with this was any one item, however I'm not sure what o 
intended.

On 11/12/2017 3:37 AM, Aris Merchant wrote:

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 7:35 PM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:


 Any player CAN terminate an Auction, by announcement, if the Auction 
has
 not ended and the Auctioneer of that Auction cannot transfer any item
 included in a lot in that Auction.


Any in this type of situation always trips me up, although there may
be some obvious rule that I don't know. Does it mean any one item, or
all of them?

-Aris



Re: DIS: Draft silly proposal

2017-11-12 Thread VJ Rada
"The Registrar's monthly report includes:

For each former player for which the information is reasonably
available, the dates on which e registered and deregistered."

Dates, but not reasons, no.

On Sun, Nov 12, 2017 at 6:52 PM, Aris Merchant
 wrote:
> Is it required anywhere?
>
> On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 11:37 PM, Madeline  wrote:
>> We already have this in the Rulekeepor's monthly report.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2017-11-12 18:36, Aris Merchant wrote:
>>>
>>> How's this?
>>>
>>> -Aris
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> It's hereby enacted
>>> (The name being redacted):
>>>
>>> If a player should leave the game,
>>> they will never be greeted with shame.
>>> Instead a pillar of memory will be built in the sky,
>>> it will last there forever,
>>> it never shall die.
>>> Tracked by whomever
>>> tracks tracker-less things,
>>> let's all watch the bountiful joy it brings
>>> to see the names of those gone before
>>> and the ways that they left, as they move into lore.



-- 
>From V.J. Rada


Re: DIS: Auctions v4

2017-11-12 Thread Aris Merchant
On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 7:35 PM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:

> Any player CAN terminate an Auction, by announcement, if the Auction 
> has
> not ended and the Auctioneer of that Auction cannot transfer any item
> included in a lot in that Auction.

Any in this type of situation always trips me up, although there may
be some obvious rule that I don't know. Does it mean any one item, or
all of them?

-Aris


DIS: Promotor draft report

2017-11-12 Thread Aris Merchant
Here's my intermittent weekly draft.

-Aris
---

I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the
quorum is 6.0 and the valid options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is
also a valid vote, as are conditional votes).

ID Author(s)  AI   TitlePender  Pend fee
---
7965*  Trigon 3.0  One pronoun fix  Trigon  1 AP
7966*  ATMunn 1.0  But I already live there!o   1 AP
7967*  V.J. Rada  1.0  Rhyming sux tbh  V.J. Rada   1 AP
7968*  Alexis, [2]2.0  Backed Out the Door  Alexis  OP [1]
7969*  V.J. Rada, [3] 3.0  Obvious fix  V.J. Rada   2 sh.
7970*  V.J. Rada  2.0  Referee Minor FixV.J. Rada   2 sh.
7971*  V.J. Rada, [3] 2.0  Cleanup Time V.J. Rada   2 sh.


The proposal pool currently contains the following proposals:

ID   Author(s) AI   Title
---
pp1  Alexis1.7  A Most Ingenious Paradox
pp2  G.2.0  Silly Tweaks
pp3  ATMunn, [3]   1.0  [4]


Legend: * : Proposal is pending.

[1] Official Proposal, inherently pending
[2] Telnaior, ais523, Aris, G.
[3] Alexis
[4] No title


A proposal may be pended for 1 AP, or for 1/20th the Floating Value
in shines (see the Treasuror's report).

The full text of the aforementioned proposals is included below.

//
ID: 7965
Title: One pronoun fix
Adoption index: 3.0
Author: Trigon
Co-authors:


Replace the word "his" in the second paragraph of Rule 2438 ("Ribbons") with
"eir".

//
ID: 7966
Title: But I already live there
Adoption index: 1.0
Author: Trigon
Co-authors:


Amend rule 2474 "Green Cards" by replacing the text "the United States" with
"Brazil".

//
ID: 7967
Title: Rhyming sux tbh
Adoption index: 1.0
Author: V.J. Rada
Co-authors:


Repeal rule 1650, "Silliness"
Repeal the rule called "Poetry Duel Challenge Writ

//
ID: 7968
Title: Backed Out the Door
Adoption index: 2.0
Author: Alexis
Co-authors: Telnaior, ais523, Aris, G.


Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Political Parties", reading as
follows:

  There are 5 Parties, in order:

  - Platonic Isolationists
  - New Punchbowl Reformers
  - Costume Conservatives
  - Substance Use Liberals
  - Official Raving Monster Looney Party

  Politicians are entities; each Politician has a name and an
  associated Party. Politicians exist only as specified by the
  rules. Creating, altering, or destroying Politicians is secured.

  If there are ever fewer than 20 Politicians, then the Clork CAN
  and SHALL, by announcement, create a new Politician, specifying
  eir Party and name. The Party must be selected at random from:

  - If any Party has fewer than 3 Politicans, the Party or Parties
with the fewest.
  - Otherwise, the Parties with fewer than 5 Politicians.

Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Clork", reading as follows:

  The Clork (pronounced "clark") is an office. The Clork's weekly
  report includes:
  - a list of all Politicans with their names and Parties.
  - the assignment of Policies to Parties.

  The portion of a document purporting to be a Clork's report
  containing the above information is self-ratifying.

Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Echelon Forms", reading as follows:

  A Post is a position which can be held by at most one Politician.
  Each Politican can hold at most one Post at a time. Each Post is
  in an Echelon, which has an associated Rank. The Echelons, and
  their Posts and Ranks, are as follows:

  Chamber of Power (Rank 5):
  - Host
  Upper Echelon (Rank 3):
  - Planner
  - Enforcer
  - Organizer
  - Creep
  Row Echelon (Rank 1):
  - Schmoozer
  - Decorator
  - Loner
  - Drunk
  - Mystery
  - Wild One
  - Hat Rack

  Each Politician who holds a Post is in the Echelon of that post;
  other Politicians are in the Row-Reduced Echelon, which has Rank
  0. Likewise, the Rank of a Post or Politician is the Rank of their
  Echelon.

  If a rule provides that a Post can take an action, then the
  Advisor of the holder of that Post CAN take that action. If there
  is no such player, and the Post is required to take that action,
  then the Clork CAN do it prior to any deadline for its
  performance. After a deadline for a Post to perform an action, any
  player CAN take it.

Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Taken Under Advisement", reading as
follows:

  Advisor is a Politician switch, tracked by the Clork, with
  possible values all players and none (default). For each