DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ
Gratuitous:
I think this is very similar/identical to CFJ 1298:
https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?1298
which found that the entity that the Rules at the time called the
"Distributor" was not the same as the Patent Title Distributor
that had been previously awarded - to this day the Patent Title
Distributor and the (now-Office) Distributor are different.
On Mon, 5 Nov 2018, Gaelan Steele wrote:
> CFJ: “There are two Shoguns.”
>
> Arguments:
> Twg is a shogun per 2510/3 ("The player with the highest karma (if any) is
> the Shogun.”)
> Michael has the patent title of Shogun.
>
> 2510 says “the Shogun,” which implies there is only one. Does that make
> Michael lose the patent title?
>
> Gaelan
DIS: Proposal-review Protos
So, I (and I think some others) think we need a way to enforce peer review on
proposals before they are voted on. Here are two proposals that would do that.
I lean towards the second, but not strongly.
OPTION A
Amend rule 2350 by replacing “A player CAN create a proposal by announcement”
with "A player CAN create a proposal by with 1 support.”
Advantages: minimal changes
Disadvantages: makes proposals rely on dependent actions and at least two
players, which is a bit scary.
OPTION B
Append the following to rule 2350: "The Promotor CAN remove a proposal from the
Proposal Pool by announcement if it is not pending and has been added to the
Pool more than 14 days ago.”
Re-enact rule 2445 [how to pend a proposal], then amend it by replacing “any
player” with “any player who is not the proposal’s author [or co-author?]"
Amend rule 1607 by appending "The Promotor SHALL NOT distribute proposals which
are not pending.” to the third paragraph, and by replacing "distribute all
proposals in the Proposal Pool except” with "distribute all pending proposals
except.”
Advantages: more complex
Disadvantages: uses our existing pending wording, including all the safeguards
that come with it (note that distributing non-pending proposals isn’t
IMPOSSIBLE, just ILLEGAL).
OPTIONAL ADDITION (could be used with either option)
Create a Power-1 rule titled “The Lint Screen”: {
The Lint Screen is a set of regulations with the Rulekeepor as the Promulgator.
The regulations in the Lint Screen SHOULD describe common errors in proposals,
but they have legal power. Any player CAN create, amend, or repeal regulations
in the Lint Screen with Agoran Consent.
} [is a regulation the right option for this? Maybe it should just be a pice of
text the rulekeepor tracks]
Append to 2350/2445: “An attempt to {support the creation of/pend} a proposal
is INEFFECTIVE unless the player doing so states, in the same message, that
they have reviewed the proposal for any issues described in the Lint Screen.
Such a proposal is never a lie for the purposes of rule 2471.”
[While people could just say that they’ve done this without doing so, it at
least reminds them that they would be doing so. We can’t stop people from doing
something stupid, but we can make sure they’re doing it by choice and not
simply because they forgot.]
Gaelan
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: BOOOO! (zombie auction - Halloween edition)
I can actually speak a little Japanese: enough to understand eir action there anyway. On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 8:12 AM Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > Thanks :) To be clear I didn't have a problem with this one in particular > - it seems direct and straightforward - just wanted to give warning if > people (not just you!) decide to get too clever on this sort of thing > again. > > On Mon, 5 Nov 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote: > > Fair enough. I pledge not to use Japanese in my messages to the public > > forum whenever doing so would significantly hinder understanding of > > those messages to most other players. > > > > -twg > > > > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > > On Monday, November 5, 2018 9:02 PM, Kerim Aydin > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Please don't. Really. It's cute once, but annoying, and we really > > > don't need a whole round of CFJs on whether each action in Japanese > > > works. The CFJs of when 天火狐 was playing pretty much ended up > > > requiring every single action to be CFJ'd and culminated in a > > > Cantus Cygneus. > > > > > > On Mon, 5 Nov 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote: > > > > > > > Thank you for reminding me. I pay Agora 13 coins to flip 天火狐の主人スイッチ > to myself. > > > > -twg > > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > > > > On Monday, November 5, 2018 3:12 PM, Kerim Aydin > ke...@u.washington.edu wrote: > > > > > > > > > I pay Agora 25 coins to flip pokes' master switch to G. > > > > > [I believe twg may do so for 天火狐 for 13 coins.] > > > > > On Wed, 31 Oct 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I don't particularly want 天火狐 because I don't want to cut and > paste all the > > > > > > time, so I'll try to stay out of the way on the upper end of the > bidding. > > > > > > I bid 25 coins. > > > > > > On Wed, 31 Oct 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I bid 13 coins. > > > > > > > -twg > > > > > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > > > > > > > On Wednesday, October 31, 2018 9:12 PM, ATMunn > iamingodsa...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I bid 2 coins, because why not. > > > > > > > > On 10/31/2018 5:02 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Marking the 1-year anniversary of zombies, that debuted > last Halloween!] > > > > > > > > > I initiate a zombie auction, with the following lots (each > zombie a > > > > > > > > > separate lot) ordered as follows (highest-bid first): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. pokes > > > > > > > > > 2. 天火狐 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Agora is the Auctioneer, and the Registrar is the > Announcer. The > > > > > > > > > currency is Coins with a minimum bid of 1. > > > > > > > -- >From V.J. Rada
Re: DIS: SCAM ALERT (was Re: BUS: Contract Hash)
I confess I am hopelessly confused. The contract doesn’t seem to affect anyone
besides twg and Gaelan. Is it a flaw in the proposal? But then what does that
have to do with the timing of adoption?
> On Nov 5, 2018, at 3:49 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
>
> Actually, why am I even bothering with trying to outmanoeuvre Gaelan on my
> own. 3 coins is nothing in the scheme of things.
>
> The text of the document in question is as follows:
>
> {If proposal 8114 is resolved before Nov 7th (UTC), Gaelan SHALL pay twg 3
> coins.}
>
> Proposal 8114, which I MUST resolve ADOPTED before 12th November 2018 01:16
> UTC, is reproduced below. Y'all've got 6 days to figure out what e's planning.
>
> //
> ID: 8114
> Title: Free auctions 2
> Adoption index: 1.0
> Author: Trigon
> Co-authors: twg, G.
>
>
> [ Comment: Not sure how I actually feel about this being enacted but
> proposals are cheap so I might as well.
>
> Version 2: Clear up wording. ]
>
> Create a new power-1 rule entitled 'Free Auctions' with the text:
>
> A player who is not the Auctioneer of an existing Auction
> specified by this rule CAN, by announcement, initiate an auction
> with emself as the Announcer and Auctioneer.
>
> //
>
> -twg
>
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>> On Monday, November 5, 2018 8:38 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey
>> wrote:
>>
>> I consent to be bound by the terms of the document with this SHA-1 hash sent
>> to me by Gaelan.
>>
>> -twg
>>
>> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>>> On Monday, November 5, 2018 7:55 PM, Gaelan Steele g...@canishe.com wrote:
>>>
>>> 073e2cd64e36b95a054420a988ea6c37800d09cc
>>> Gaelan
>
>
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: BOOOO! (zombie auction - Halloween edition)
Thanks :) To be clear I didn't have a problem with this one in particular - it seems direct and straightforward - just wanted to give warning if people (not just you!) decide to get too clever on this sort of thing again. On Mon, 5 Nov 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote: > Fair enough. I pledge not to use Japanese in my messages to the public > forum whenever doing so would significantly hinder understanding of > those messages to most other players. > > -twg > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > On Monday, November 5, 2018 9:02 PM, Kerim Aydin > wrote: > > > > > > > Please don't. Really. It's cute once, but annoying, and we really > > don't need a whole round of CFJs on whether each action in Japanese > > works. The CFJs of when 天火狐 was playing pretty much ended up > > requiring every single action to be CFJ'd and culminated in a > > Cantus Cygneus. > > > > On Mon, 5 Nov 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote: > > > > > Thank you for reminding me. I pay Agora 13 coins to flip 天火狐の主人スイッチ to > > > myself. > > > -twg > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > > > On Monday, November 5, 2018 3:12 PM, Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I pay Agora 25 coins to flip pokes' master switch to G. > > > > [I believe twg may do so for 天火狐 for 13 coins.] > > > > On Wed, 31 Oct 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > > > > > > > I don't particularly want 天火狐 because I don't want to cut and paste > > > > > all the > > > > > time, so I'll try to stay out of the way on the upper end of the > > > > > bidding. > > > > > I bid 25 coins. > > > > > On Wed, 31 Oct 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I bid 13 coins. > > > > > > -twg > > > > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > > > > > > On Wednesday, October 31, 2018 9:12 PM, ATMunn > > > > > > iamingodsa...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I bid 2 coins, because why not. > > > > > > > On 10/31/2018 5:02 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Marking the 1-year anniversary of zombies, that debuted last > > > > > > > > Halloween!] > > > > > > > > I initiate a zombie auction, with the following lots (each > > > > > > > > zombie a > > > > > > > > separate lot) ordered as follows (highest-bid first): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. pokes > > > > > > > > 2. 天火狐 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Agora is the Auctioneer, and the Registrar is the Announcer. The > > > > > > > > currency is Coins with a minimum bid of 1. > > >
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: BOOOO! (zombie auction - Halloween edition)
Please don't. Really. It's cute once, but annoying, and we really don't need a whole round of CFJs on whether each action in Japanese works. The CFJs of when 天火狐 was playing pretty much ended up requiring every single action to be CFJ'd and culminated in a Cantus Cygneus. On Mon, 5 Nov 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote: > Thank you for reminding me. I pay Agora 13 coins to flip 天火狐の主人スイッチ to myself. > > -twg > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > On Monday, November 5, 2018 3:12 PM, Kerim Aydin > wrote: > > > > > > > I pay Agora 25 coins to flip pokes' master switch to G. > > > > [I believe twg may do so for 天火狐 for 13 coins.] > > > > On Wed, 31 Oct 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > > > I don't particularly want 天火狐 because I don't want to cut and paste all > > > the > > > time, so I'll try to stay out of the way on the upper end of the bidding. > > > I bid 25 coins. > > > On Wed, 31 Oct 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote: > > > > > > > I bid 13 coins. > > > > -twg > > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ > > > > On Wednesday, October 31, 2018 9:12 PM, ATMunn iamingodsa...@gmail.com > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > I bid 2 coins, because why not. > > > > > On 10/31/2018 5:02 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > [Marking the 1-year anniversary of zombies, that debuted last > > > > > > Halloween!] > > > > > > I initiate a zombie auction, with the following lots (each zombie a > > > > > > separate lot) ordered as follows (highest-bid first): > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. pokes > > > > > > 2. 天火狐 > > > > > > > > > > > > Agora is the Auctioneer, and the Registrar is the Announcer. The > > > > > > currency is Coins with a minimum bid of 1. > > >
DIS: SCAM ALERT (was Re: BUS: Contract Hash)
Actually, why am I even bothering with trying to outmanoeuvre Gaelan on my own.
3 coins is nothing in the scheme of things.
The text of the document in question is as follows:
{If proposal 8114 is resolved before Nov 7th (UTC), Gaelan SHALL pay twg 3
coins.}
Proposal 8114, which I MUST resolve ADOPTED before 12th November 2018 01:16
UTC, is reproduced below. Y'all've got 6 days to figure out what e's planning.
//
ID: 8114
Title: Free auctions 2
Adoption index: 1.0
Author: Trigon
Co-authors: twg, G.
[ Comment: Not sure how I actually feel about this being enacted but
proposals are cheap so I might as well.
Version 2: Clear up wording. ]
Create a new power-1 rule entitled 'Free Auctions' with the text:
A player who is not the Auctioneer of an existing Auction
specified by this rule CAN, by announcement, initiate an auction
with emself as the Announcer and Auctioneer.
//
-twg
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Monday, November 5, 2018 8:38 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
> I consent to be bound by the terms of the document with this SHA-1 hash sent
> to me by Gaelan.
>
> -twg
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On Monday, November 5, 2018 7:55 PM, Gaelan Steele g...@canishe.com wrote:
>
> > 073e2cd64e36b95a054420a988ea6c37800d09cc
> > Gaelan
DIS: Re: BUS: Contract Hash
1. I believe this contains no actions, despite the fact that you meant the contents of this message to be a hash of a contract. 2. There's not really a reason to submit a contract as a hash unless you sent it privately to someone else and intend to reveal it later, in which case you would want to say who it is you sent it to. 3. You probably should have included something like "I consent to the hashed document with the intent that it become a contract" On Mon, Nov 5, 2018, 12:55 Gaelan Steele wrote: > 073e2cd64e36b95a054420a988ea6c37800d09cc > > Gaelan >
Re: DIS: HTML ruleset viewer
Not sure if anyone is actually using this, but I just noticed that my code for calculating revision numbers is wrong. I’ll try and fix it today, but please disregard those for now. Gaelan > On Nov 2, 2018, at 9:37 AM, Gaelan Steele wrote: > > I just put together a new web-based ruleset viewer. Currently it’s just the > SLR (plus a table of contents and keyword links), but I’ll try to add the FLR > information soon. It’s also fairly slow right now—working on that. The data > is from the Rulekeepor’s YAML files, so it should stay up to date. > > https://agora-ruleset.gaelan.me/ > Source is on GitHub as Agoranomic/ruleset-viewer. > > Gaelan >
Re: DIS: Hypothetical: What if a player dies?
On Sun, 4 Nov 2018, Edward Murphy wrote: > > Perhaps Rule 869 should be amended to state that any people continue to be > > people in perpetuity even if they stop meeting the definition of a person. > > We've previously defined classes non-biological persons (contracts and > such), and then had a specific instance cease to exist while the class > was still defined. I don't remember this issue coming up then (but I > might be forgetting something), and those were situations where we > specifically expected to knowingly encounter the issue at some point. When we had the R101 Rights, there were some rights that "persons" had. Then when "persons" were (later) defined to include some contracts, there was some hoo-hah that we couldn't regulate those contracts in certain ways (including destroying them) without violating their R101 rights - even if the contract would "terminate" itself via its own text, there was some opinion that honoring the contract's "suicide" would deprive it of its defined rights. So then we added a clause to the beginning of R101 that said "even if the rest of the rules define contracts as persons, for the purpose of R101, only biological-entities-that-could-communicate count". So that meant dying would take a person's R101 rights away.
