Re: DIS: Re: [Herald] vote for the best Ruleset find

2019-02-25 Thread Cuddle Beam
Having it customary to vote for yourself first makes this so much easier,
so:

I vote: {CB, Gae, Tel, twg}

I suggest making it so next time (when we ever do something similar) you
don’t have to include yourself in the vote.

On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 at 07:50, Gaelan Steele  wrote:

> Well, if you insist.
>
> {Gaelan, CB, Telainor, twg}
>
> Gaelan
>
> > On Feb 25, 2019, at 10:02 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> >
> >
> > Well done agora - if I count this, not only is 1st & 2nd place now a tie,
> > but the 3rd/4th race would also be a tie.  Way to make decisions, people
> :PP
> >
> > On 2/25/2019 3:05 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:
> >> Uh, I forgot to vote.
> >> [twg, CuddleBeam, Telnaior, Gaelan]
> >> -Aris
> >> On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 10:04 AM Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> These are the votes I have, did I miss anyone?  Looks like Gaelan
> >>> edges out Telnaior.
> >>> I'll make an "official" announcement later unless there's further
> discussion...?
> >>>
> >>> D. Margaux:{Gaelan, Telnaior, twg, CuddleBeam}
> >>> ais523:{Telnaior, Gaelan, CuddleBeam, twg}
> >>> twg:   {Gaelan, Telnaior, CuddleBeam, twg}
> >>> Falsifian: {Gaelan, Telnaior, twg, CuddleBeam}
> >>> G.:{Telnaior, Gaelan, CuddleBeam, twg}
> >>>
> >>> L (zombie, counting the zombies doesn't change the above results)
> >>> Halian (zombie, ditto)
> >>> Telnaior (conditional, didn't want eir vote to count if Gaelan didn't
> >>> vote).
>
>


Re: DIS: Re: [Herald] vote for the best Ruleset find

2019-02-25 Thread Gaelan Steele
Well, if you insist.

{Gaelan, CB, Telainor, twg}

Gaelan

> On Feb 25, 2019, at 10:02 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> 
> 
> Well done agora - if I count this, not only is 1st & 2nd place now a tie,
> but the 3rd/4th race would also be a tie.  Way to make decisions, people :PP
> 
> On 2/25/2019 3:05 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:
>> Uh, I forgot to vote.
>> [twg, CuddleBeam, Telnaior, Gaelan]
>> -Aris
>> On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 10:04 AM Kerim Aydin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> These are the votes I have, did I miss anyone?  Looks like Gaelan
>>> edges out Telnaior.
>>> I'll make an "official" announcement later unless there's further 
>>> discussion...?
>>> 
>>> D. Margaux:{Gaelan, Telnaior, twg, CuddleBeam}
>>> ais523:{Telnaior, Gaelan, CuddleBeam, twg}
>>> twg:   {Gaelan, Telnaior, CuddleBeam, twg}
>>> Falsifian: {Gaelan, Telnaior, twg, CuddleBeam}
>>> G.:{Telnaior, Gaelan, CuddleBeam, twg}
>>> 
>>> L (zombie, counting the zombies doesn't change the above results)
>>> Halian (zombie, ditto)
>>> Telnaior (conditional, didn't want eir vote to count if Gaelan didn't
>>> vote).



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature


Re: DIS: Non-email public fora

2019-02-25 Thread Cuddle Beam
Woo! Yes, I agree entirely. I’ve brought up these arguments before as well
lol.

Although, Discus/Discourse are pretty obscure.

Discord is pretty good and the current mainstream for gaming, and a
growingly popular media for nomics (Infinite Nomic and Now we Nomic are
there)! It doesn’t favor essay-length replies though but it’s an extremely
agile and powerful platform, it’s basically IRC on super-steroids.

Although, if Agora is housed there and it really catches on, I believe it
would start to be populated by people and chatter that is a lot less
serious and academic than the usual Agora, because of the
younger/anonymous/less mature demography of Discord users. Infinite Nomic
is a great example of this, and its got a lot more activity than the
serious (and dying) Now we Nomic - it’s got loads of fun, casual chat and
banter. It has also got extra misc channels and bots like ones for
videogames or porn - which in the dominant and juvenile Doritos-and-Mtn-Dew
culture around gaming and Discord, having stuff like that is status quo.

I don’t think housing Agora in Discord would be good, but imo the IRC chat
should be updated to be a Discord server instead - or at least a Slack
server like BN has, which is funcionally identical to Discord but it has a
much more professional connotation.

On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 at 01:15, Owen Jacobson  wrote:

> Hi Agorans! Please put the pitchforks down - I’m here with a question, not
> a request.
>
> It’s my view that the Rules and the structural properties of the fora in
> which Agora is played have a sympathetic relationship with one another. The
> Rules and CFJ case law combine to treat email as the preferred format for
> playing Agora, and in turn email contains properties that make it uniquely
> attractive to Agora’s players.
>
> Rule 478 (“Fora”) sets out the basic requirements for an Agoran forum:
>
> >   Freedom of speech being essential for the healthy functioning of
> >   any non-Imperial nomic, it is hereby resolved that no Player shall
> >   be prohibited from participating in the Fora, nor shall any person
> >   create physical or technological obstacles that unduly favor some
> >   players' fora access over others.
>
> A forum must, in technical implementation, be reasonably equitable,
>
> >   Each player should ensure e can receive messages via each public
> >   forum.
>
> It is the responsibility of each player to ensure that they can view each
> fora, before it is the responsibility of the forum’s operator to ensure the
> players can view the forum they operate,
>
> >   A public message is a message sent via a public forum, or sent to
> >   all players and containing a clear designation of intent to be
> >   public. A rule can also designate that a part of one public
> >   message is considered a public message in its own right. A person
> >   "publishes" or "announces" something by sending a public message.
>
> A forum is a collection of messages, which may include sub-messages,
>
> are collectively a pretty good description of the email system, as
> deployed on the internet.
>
> However, the use of email (and the use of email distribution lists, in
> particular) is far out of favour on the internet at large. While most
> people can be taught to operate mailman and how to effectively participate
> in an email distribution list discussion, those skills are no longer as
> prevalent in the internet userbase as they may once have been. This shows
> up for Agora in terms of people failing to subscribe, or failing to
> understand where their messages have gone, and it probably shows up in
> terms of potential players we never hear about because they completely fail
> the initial task of “subscribe to the list” without asking for help.
>
> (Lurking in Freenode’s ##nomic has convinced me that that barrier exists,
> at least for some users.)
>
> With that in mind, I have two questions.
>
> 1. What, if any, web-based discussion systems would be effective for
> supporting Agora as it is today?
>
> I did a cursory survey of the state of the art, and it appears that
> web-based discussions are dominated by:
>
> * Discus, for discussions associated with some parent document (generally
> a blog post or news item),
> * Discourse, for open-ended discussion venues dedicated to specific
> subject matter, and
> * Social Media (as exemplified by Facebook, Twitter, and Reddit), for
> freeform conversation.
>
> None of these exactly map to the forum criteria established in Rule 478:
> Discus, for example, imposes a tree-shaped interface, and provides a
> completely separate discussion for each parent document, while social media
> systems invariably interpose some kind of attention-seeking algorithmic
> ordering, and often algorithmic *removal*, between author and reader. It
> would be quite hard to collate out a single, chronological list of messages
> (required by the final paragraph of Rule 478) from any of those systems.
>
> 2. 

Re: DIS: Non-email public fora

2019-02-25 Thread Kerim Aydin



Hi, o!

I always thought the MUD (Nomic World) was the best place to play nomic in.
Because you could have all three of (1) real-time conversation, (2) message
boards for long threads and (3) automated systems, smoothly linked in a
single environment with user authentication, and you could adjust the
balance of types of interactions on the fly.

ITT one essential ingredient of Agora-style nomic play is that we use
natural language to Do Things.  It might be tempting to start automating a
bunch of stuff, and some automation is good, but half of what we do is find
clever ways to say we do things under the constraints of language and
written communication.  So a key feature to preserve is "keep conversations
intact, and keep the actions as part of the conversations".

As an exercise, if you wanted to move Agora to a wholly different medium
with minimal rules modification, I think it would be quite easy to move to a
more blog-post like system, provided that message replies are kept
sequential (no ranking mechanism) at first.

To begin with, you'd just need a slight Rules tweak - make a new blog post
each day, and the official forum moves to be replies to that day's thread.
Almost exactly the same as now, entirely sequential conversation.  Then,
once moved in, you can start migrating rules you no longer need - reports
have been mentioned, but having parallel threads for each proposal/CFJ -
those things could be implemented Rule-by-rule as you go.  It seems pretty
straightforward to give proposals, CFJs, etc. a new initiation method, "by
blog post" rather than "by announcement", with some thinking about handling
simultaneous events.

-G.

On 2/25/2019 4:15 PM, Owen Jacobson wrote:

Hi Agorans! Please put the pitchforks down - I’m here with a question, not a 
request.

It’s my view that the Rules and the structural properties of the fora in which 
Agora is played have a sympathetic relationship with one another. The Rules and 
CFJ case law combine to treat email as the preferred format for playing Agora, 
and in turn email contains properties that make it uniquely attractive to 
Agora’s players.

Rule 478 (“Fora”) sets out the basic requirements for an Agoran forum:


   Freedom of speech being essential for the healthy functioning of
   any non-Imperial nomic, it is hereby resolved that no Player shall
   be prohibited from participating in the Fora, nor shall any person
   create physical or technological obstacles that unduly favor some
   players' fora access over others.
   
A forum must, in technical implementation, be reasonably equitable,



   Each player should ensure e can receive messages via each public
   forum.


It is the responsibility of each player to ensure that they can view each fora, 
before it is the responsibility of the forum’s operator to ensure the players 
can view the forum they operate,


   A public message is a message sent via a public forum, or sent to
   all players and containing a clear designation of intent to be
   public. A rule can also designate that a part of one public
   message is considered a public message in its own right. A person
   "publishes" or "announces" something by sending a public message.
   
A forum is a collection of messages, which may include sub-messages,


are collectively a pretty good description of the email system, as deployed on 
the internet.

However, the use of email (and the use of email distribution lists, in 
particular) is far out of favour on the internet at large. While most people 
can be taught to operate mailman and how to effectively participate in an email 
distribution list discussion, those skills are no longer as prevalent in the 
internet userbase as they may once have been. This shows up for Agora in terms 
of people failing to subscribe, or failing to understand where their messages 
have gone, and it probably shows up in terms of potential players we never hear 
about because they completely fail the initial task of “subscribe to the list” 
without asking for help.

(Lurking in Freenode’s ##nomic has convinced me that that barrier exists, at 
least for some users.)

With that in mind, I have two questions.

1. What, if any, web-based discussion systems would be effective for supporting 
Agora as it is today?

I did a cursory survey of the state of the art, and it appears that web-based 
discussions are dominated by:

* Discus, for discussions associated with some parent document (generally a 
blog post or news item),
* Discourse, for open-ended discussion venues dedicated to specific subject 
matter, and
* Social Media (as exemplified by Facebook, Twitter, and Reddit), for freeform 
conversation.

None of these exactly map to the forum criteria established in Rule 478: 
Discus, for example, imposes a tree-shaped interface, and provides a completely 
separate discussion for each parent document, while social media systems 
invariably interpose some kind of 

Re: DIS: Re: [Herald] vote for the best Ruleset find

2019-02-25 Thread Kerim Aydin



Well done agora - if I count this, not only is 1st & 2nd place now a tie,
but the 3rd/4th race would also be a tie.  Way to make decisions, people :PP

On 2/25/2019 3:05 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:

Uh, I forgot to vote.

[twg, CuddleBeam, Telnaior, Gaelan]

-Aris

On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 10:04 AM Kerim Aydin  wrote:


These are the votes I have, did I miss anyone?  Looks like Gaelan
edges out Telnaior.
I'll make an "official" announcement later unless there's further discussion...?

D. Margaux:{Gaelan, Telnaior, twg, CuddleBeam}
ais523:{Telnaior, Gaelan, CuddleBeam, twg}
twg:   {Gaelan, Telnaior, CuddleBeam, twg}
Falsifian: {Gaelan, Telnaior, twg, CuddleBeam}
G.:{Telnaior, Gaelan, CuddleBeam, twg}

L (zombie, counting the zombies doesn't change the above results)
Halian (zombie, ditto)
Telnaior (conditional, didn't want eir vote to count if Gaelan didn't
vote).


Re: DIS: Non-email public fora

2019-02-25 Thread Gaelan Steele
Speaking of which, I own the agronomic Google Group if we ever want to set that 
up as a backup.

Gaelan

> On Feb 25, 2019, at 8:59 PM, Reuben Staley  wrote:
> 
> One key trait of Nomic that comes from its main spin as a game built around 
> rule changes is adaptability. I am of the opinion that, as of right now, 
> there is no perfect forum on which to play Nomic, but Nomic can and, with a 
> reasonably wise group of players who each have the strengths and limitations 
> of the forum in question in mind, will become more suited to its environment.
> 
> Agora, in its over twenty years of history, has adapted to the mailing list 
> format because it had to to facilitate play. Emails are messages that can 
> either be long or short, but that cannot be changed after they are sent. So 
> we had to work around that.
> 
> The main manifestation of Agora's adaptation is reports. In BlogNomic, the 
> Ruleset page on the wiki and the GNDT do most of the tracking, whereas in 
> Agora, we publish the information every week because we can't keep a 
> constantly changing record. If we were to transition off a mailing list, 
> Reports would be one of the first mechanics to go.
> 
> Along the same line, we have the distribution system of proposals. This goes 
> along with (1), but is still worth mentioning. In most other Nomics, 
> proposals are immediately put up for voting since one post can represent a 
> proposal. Of course, this is not something that would definitely have to go; 
> it's not hard to imagine a blog-based Nomic in which proposals are 
> distributed all at once.
> 
> Now, there are many issues with the idea of moving a Nomic platform. Suppose 
> that the mail server went offline one day and a group of Agorans got together 
> off-list to figure out what to do. Chances are, not everyone would agree on 
> everything. It seems to me that there's a non-negligible chance that Agora 
> would split into multiple games at that point, each one claiming to be the 
> true successor to Agora in the same way FRC and Agora itself argue about who 
> is the worthy successor to Nomic World.
> 
> Another point: remember how I said Nomic is adaptable? Well, I would like to 
> add an important clarification: Nomic is adaptable, but it adapts slowly. 
> It's likely that some forks of Agora would die out before they finished 
> adapting to the new platform because it would just be so hard to play in its 
> current state.
> 
> Now, let's discuss potential new forums for Agora. I believe that a bulletin 
> board would be the best way to continue playing Agora should it be moved. 
> Agoran threads get very long very fast, and a bulletin board would show every 
> comment response. Gamestate tracking could be relegated to a specific 
> category of posts; as could proposals and maybe even minigames. This may just 
> be my personal opinion about bulletin boards being the best out of the 
> current ways to play Nomic; however, I do honestly believe it would be the 
> best way to go.
> 
> I hope this helps you with your research, o.
> 
> On 2/25/19 5:15 PM, Owen Jacobson wrote:
>> Hi Agorans! Please put the pitchforks down - I’m here with a question, not a 
>> request.
>> It’s my view that the Rules and the structural properties of the fora in 
>> which Agora is played have a sympathetic relationship with one another. The 
>> Rules and CFJ case law combine to treat email as the preferred format for 
>> playing Agora, and in turn email contains properties that make it uniquely 
>> attractive to Agora’s players.
>> Rule 478 (“Fora”) sets out the basic requirements for an Agoran forum:
>>>   Freedom of speech being essential for the healthy functioning of
>>>   any non-Imperial nomic, it is hereby resolved that no Player shall
>>>   be prohibited from participating in the Fora, nor shall any person
>>>   create physical or technological obstacles that unduly favor some
>>>   players' fora access over others.
>>   A forum must, in technical implementation, be reasonably equitable,
>>>   Each player should ensure e can receive messages via each public
>>>   forum.
>> It is the responsibility of each player to ensure that they can view each 
>> fora, before it is the responsibility of the forum’s operator to ensure the 
>> players can view the forum they operate,
>>>   A public message is a message sent via a public forum, or sent to
>>>   all players and containing a clear designation of intent to be
>>>   public. A rule can also designate that a part of one public
>>>   message is considered a public message in its own right. A person
>>>   "publishes" or "announces" something by sending a public message.
>>   A forum is a collection of messages, which may include sub-messages,
>> are collectively a pretty good description of the email system, as deployed 
>> on the internet.
>> However, the use of email (and the use of email distribution lists, in 
>> particular) is far out of 

Re: DIS: Non-email public fora

2019-02-25 Thread Reuben Staley
One key trait of Nomic that comes from its main spin as a game built 
around rule changes is adaptability. I am of the opinion that, as of 
right now, there is no perfect forum on which to play Nomic, but Nomic 
can and, with a reasonably wise group of players who each have the 
strengths and limitations of the forum in question in mind, will become 
more suited to its environment.


Agora, in its over twenty years of history, has adapted to the mailing 
list format because it had to to facilitate play. Emails are messages 
that can either be long or short, but that cannot be changed after they 
are sent. So we had to work around that.


The main manifestation of Agora's adaptation is reports. In BlogNomic, 
the Ruleset page on the wiki and the GNDT do most of the tracking, 
whereas in Agora, we publish the information every week because we can't 
keep a constantly changing record. If we were to transition off a 
mailing list, Reports would be one of the first mechanics to go.


Along the same line, we have the distribution system of proposals. This 
goes along with (1), but is still worth mentioning. In most other 
Nomics, proposals are immediately put up for voting since one post can 
represent a proposal. Of course, this is not something that would 
definitely have to go; it's not hard to imagine a blog-based Nomic in 
which proposals are distributed all at once.


Now, there are many issues with the idea of moving a Nomic platform. 
Suppose that the mail server went offline one day and a group of Agorans 
got together off-list to figure out what to do. Chances are, not 
everyone would agree on everything. It seems to me that there's a 
non-negligible chance that Agora would split into multiple games at that 
point, each one claiming to be the true successor to Agora in the same 
way FRC and Agora itself argue about who is the worthy successor to 
Nomic World.


Another point: remember how I said Nomic is adaptable? Well, I would 
like to add an important clarification: Nomic is adaptable, but it 
adapts slowly. It's likely that some forks of Agora would die out before 
they finished adapting to the new platform because it would just be so 
hard to play in its current state.


Now, let's discuss potential new forums for Agora. I believe that a 
bulletin board would be the best way to continue playing Agora should it 
be moved. Agoran threads get very long very fast, and a bulletin board 
would show every comment response. Gamestate tracking could be relegated 
to a specific category of posts; as could proposals and maybe even 
minigames. This may just be my personal opinion about bulletin boards 
being the best out of the current ways to play Nomic; however, I do 
honestly believe it would be the best way to go.


I hope this helps you with your research, o.

On 2/25/19 5:15 PM, Owen Jacobson wrote:

Hi Agorans! Please put the pitchforks down - I’m here with a question, not a 
request.

It’s my view that the Rules and the structural properties of the fora in which 
Agora is played have a sympathetic relationship with one another. The Rules and 
CFJ case law combine to treat email as the preferred format for playing Agora, 
and in turn email contains properties that make it uniquely attractive to 
Agora’s players.

Rule 478 (“Fora”) sets out the basic requirements for an Agoran forum:


   Freedom of speech being essential for the healthy functioning of
   any non-Imperial nomic, it is hereby resolved that no Player shall
   be prohibited from participating in the Fora, nor shall any person
   create physical or technological obstacles that unduly favor some
   players' fora access over others.
   
A forum must, in technical implementation, be reasonably equitable,



   Each player should ensure e can receive messages via each public
   forum.


It is the responsibility of each player to ensure that they can view each fora, 
before it is the responsibility of the forum’s operator to ensure the players 
can view the forum they operate,


   A public message is a message sent via a public forum, or sent to
   all players and containing a clear designation of intent to be
   public. A rule can also designate that a part of one public
   message is considered a public message in its own right. A person
   "publishes" or "announces" something by sending a public message.
   
A forum is a collection of messages, which may include sub-messages,


are collectively a pretty good description of the email system, as deployed on 
the internet.

However, the use of email (and the use of email distribution lists, in 
particular) is far out of favour on the internet at large. While most people 
can be taught to operate mailman and how to effectively participate in an email 
distribution list discussion, those skills are no longer as prevalent in the 
internet userbase as they may once have been. This shows up for Agora in terms 
of people failing to subscribe, 

DIS: Non-email public fora

2019-02-25 Thread Owen Jacobson
Hi Agorans! Please put the pitchforks down - I’m here with a question, not a 
request.

It’s my view that the Rules and the structural properties of the fora in which 
Agora is played have a sympathetic relationship with one another. The Rules and 
CFJ case law combine to treat email as the preferred format for playing Agora, 
and in turn email contains properties that make it uniquely attractive to 
Agora’s players.

Rule 478 (“Fora”) sets out the basic requirements for an Agoran forum:

>   Freedom of speech being essential for the healthy functioning of
>   any non-Imperial nomic, it is hereby resolved that no Player shall
>   be prohibited from participating in the Fora, nor shall any person
>   create physical or technological obstacles that unduly favor some
>   players' fora access over others.
  
A forum must, in technical implementation, be reasonably equitable,

>   Each player should ensure e can receive messages via each public
>   forum.

It is the responsibility of each player to ensure that they can view each fora, 
before it is the responsibility of the forum’s operator to ensure the players 
can view the forum they operate,

>   A public message is a message sent via a public forum, or sent to
>   all players and containing a clear designation of intent to be
>   public. A rule can also designate that a part of one public
>   message is considered a public message in its own right. A person
>   "publishes" or "announces" something by sending a public message.
  
A forum is a collection of messages, which may include sub-messages,

are collectively a pretty good description of the email system, as deployed on 
the internet.

However, the use of email (and the use of email distribution lists, in 
particular) is far out of favour on the internet at large. While most people 
can be taught to operate mailman and how to effectively participate in an email 
distribution list discussion, those skills are no longer as prevalent in the 
internet userbase as they may once have been. This shows up for Agora in terms 
of people failing to subscribe, or failing to understand where their messages 
have gone, and it probably shows up in terms of potential players we never hear 
about because they completely fail the initial task of “subscribe to the list” 
without asking for help.

(Lurking in Freenode’s ##nomic has convinced me that that barrier exists, at 
least for some users.)

With that in mind, I have two questions.

1. What, if any, web-based discussion systems would be effective for supporting 
Agora as it is today?

I did a cursory survey of the state of the art, and it appears that web-based 
discussions are dominated by:

* Discus, for discussions associated with some parent document (generally a 
blog post or news item),
* Discourse, for open-ended discussion venues dedicated to specific subject 
matter, and
* Social Media (as exemplified by Facebook, Twitter, and Reddit), for freeform 
conversation.

None of these exactly map to the forum criteria established in Rule 478: 
Discus, for example, imposes a tree-shaped interface, and provides a completely 
separate discussion for each parent document, while social media systems 
invariably interpose some kind of attention-seeking algorithmic ordering, and 
often algorithmic *removal*, between author and reader. It would be quite hard 
to collate out a single, chronological list of messages (required by the final 
paragraph of Rule 478) from any of those systems.

2. What, if anything, would need to be amended to allow something like Agora to 
be played in a venue other than email?

My real motivation here is to find ways to adapt Agora’s decision-making 
systems for other use cases. I think Agora’s model of asynchronous 
deliberation, its system of votes, AI, and document power ratings, and its 
mechanisms for inclusion are a powerful alternative to the kinds of chaos I run 
into when organizing gaming groups, and I’ve got a personal interest in trying 
to use it to structure a user-owned cooperative enterprise in another sphere.

-o



Re: DIS: Re: [Herald] vote for the best Ruleset find

2019-02-25 Thread Aris Merchant
Uh, I forgot to vote.

[twg, CuddleBeam, Telnaior, Gaelan]

-Aris

On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 10:04 AM Kerim Aydin  wrote:
>
> These are the votes I have, did I miss anyone?  Looks like Gaelan
> edges out Telnaior.
> I'll make an "official" announcement later unless there's further 
> discussion...?
>
> D. Margaux:{Gaelan, Telnaior, twg, CuddleBeam}
> ais523:{Telnaior, Gaelan, CuddleBeam, twg}
> twg:   {Gaelan, Telnaior, CuddleBeam, twg}
> Falsifian: {Gaelan, Telnaior, twg, CuddleBeam}
> G.:{Telnaior, Gaelan, CuddleBeam, twg}
>
> L (zombie, counting the zombies doesn't change the above results)
> Halian (zombie, ditto)
> Telnaior (conditional, didn't want eir vote to count if Gaelan didn't
> vote).
>
> On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 11:00 AM Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> >
> >
> > VOTE!
> > Who had the best loophole, bug, or scam during Read the Ruleset week?
> > VOTE!
> >
> > Here starts an UNOFFICIAL AGORAN DECISION with the following modifications:
> > -  Ranked choice:  It's not bad form to vote for yourself, but please
> > consider 2nd, 3rd, etc.
> > -  Counting long term-watchers' votes too!  If ais523, Ørjan, or other
> > watchers would like to opine.
> > -  Using the Auction method for ending the decision (4 days since last
> > vote, no more than 7 days total).
> > -  I'll give my own votes in 24-48 hours.
> >
> > OPTIONS (vote for the person)
> >
> > Telnaior illustrating that contracts can make infinitely-rewarding reports:
> > https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2019-February/039875.html
> >
> > (unjudged; arguments for it working stronger than arguments against IMO,
> > fix proposed).
> >
> >
> > Gaelan's attempt to win by Apathy, by using two messages for the same
> > intent:
> > https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2019-February/039934.html
> >
> > (Judged to have succeeded on reconsideration, though caught up in broader
> > issues of Satisfaction, fix proposed).
> >
> >
> > CuddleBeam arguing that Agora is a Contract, possibly a worldview shift:
> > https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2019-February/039955.html
> > (Judged to be true, may be more of a curiosity than a practical matter, but
> > it's a curiosity very much in the Agoran spirit).
> >
> >
> > twg attempt to use contracts to induct the unwilling:
> > https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2019-February/039950.html
> > (Judged to have failed, but pointed out the need for clearer wording or
> > stronger protections in the Rules).
> >
> >
> > Honorable Mentions:
> >
> > D. Margaux working the Contract Bug:
> > https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2019-February/039896.html
> > (and when twg scooped em, followed up with a different approach):
> > https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2019-February/039953.html
> >
> > CuddleBeam pointing out that space wins are infinite:
> > https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2019-February/039895.html
> >
> > Falsifian, for pointing out that Satisfaction has been borked for over 2
> > years (unfortunately late for the contest!  But the biggest bug correction
> > for a while and Falsifian is working hard on a fix).
> > https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2019-February/040023.html
> >
> > twg's assertion that Rule 2571 is guilty of violating Rule 105.  (also too
> > late to enter):
> > https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/msg33517.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >


DIS: Re: [Herald] vote for the best Ruleset find

2019-02-25 Thread Kerim Aydin
These are the votes I have, did I miss anyone?  Looks like Gaelan
edges out Telnaior.
I'll make an "official" announcement later unless there's further discussion...?

D. Margaux:{Gaelan, Telnaior, twg, CuddleBeam}
ais523:{Telnaior, Gaelan, CuddleBeam, twg}
twg:   {Gaelan, Telnaior, CuddleBeam, twg}
Falsifian: {Gaelan, Telnaior, twg, CuddleBeam}
G.:{Telnaior, Gaelan, CuddleBeam, twg}

L (zombie, counting the zombies doesn't change the above results)
Halian (zombie, ditto)
Telnaior (conditional, didn't want eir vote to count if Gaelan didn't
vote).

On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 11:00 AM Kerim Aydin  wrote:
>
>
> VOTE!
> Who had the best loophole, bug, or scam during Read the Ruleset week?
> VOTE!
>
> Here starts an UNOFFICIAL AGORAN DECISION with the following modifications:
> -  Ranked choice:  It's not bad form to vote for yourself, but please
> consider 2nd, 3rd, etc.
> -  Counting long term-watchers' votes too!  If ais523, Ørjan, or other
> watchers would like to opine.
> -  Using the Auction method for ending the decision (4 days since last
> vote, no more than 7 days total).
> -  I'll give my own votes in 24-48 hours.
>
> OPTIONS (vote for the person)
>
> Telnaior illustrating that contracts can make infinitely-rewarding reports:
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2019-February/039875.html
>
> (unjudged; arguments for it working stronger than arguments against IMO,
> fix proposed).
>
>
> Gaelan's attempt to win by Apathy, by using two messages for the same
> intent:
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2019-February/039934.html
>
> (Judged to have succeeded on reconsideration, though caught up in broader
> issues of Satisfaction, fix proposed).
>
>
> CuddleBeam arguing that Agora is a Contract, possibly a worldview shift:
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2019-February/039955.html
> (Judged to be true, may be more of a curiosity than a practical matter, but
> it's a curiosity very much in the Agoran spirit).
>
>
> twg attempt to use contracts to induct the unwilling:
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2019-February/039950.html
> (Judged to have failed, but pointed out the need for clearer wording or
> stronger protections in the Rules).
>
>
> Honorable Mentions:
>
> D. Margaux working the Contract Bug:
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2019-February/039896.html
> (and when twg scooped em, followed up with a different approach):
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2019-February/039953.html
>
> CuddleBeam pointing out that space wins are infinite:
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2019-February/039895.html
>
> Falsifian, for pointing out that Satisfaction has been borked for over 2
> years (unfortunately late for the contest!  But the biggest bug correction
> for a while and Falsifian is working hard on a fix).
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2019-February/040023.html
>
> twg's assertion that Rule 2571 is guilty of violating Rule 105.  (also too
> late to enter):
> https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/msg33517.html
>
>
>
>
>