DIS: Re: OFF: Report Routing
On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 9:40 PM Aris Merchant via agora-official < agora-offic...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I would prefer for Reportor reports to be sent to OFF, even in the absence > of a rule making the Reportor an office. People often read OFF to get a > summary of game affairs at a given time. The Reportor's entries are > astoundingly useful for that purpose. What does everyone else think about > this? > > Also, great work Falsifian! There's a lot going on, and you're doing an > amazing job. Sigh. This, on the other hand, was not intended to go to OFF. I guess I was thinking about OFF so I typed it in. Sorry everyone. -Aris > >
[Attn: G.] Re: Contract charities (was Re: DIS: How and Whether to Change Patch Certification)
On Sat, 20 Jun 2020 at 19:30, James Cook wrote: > > The idea of a contract charity (which we've done before) is intriguing and > > this makes me want to go for the strongest standard (w/o objection). > > I was just in the middle of drafting a Reportor contract. Here's a > copy of your proto for charity contracts from last month: > > > Proto > > - > > Enact the following rule, Charities: > > > > Donation Level is a natural switch for contracts, tracked by the > > Notary, with a default of 0 and a maximum of 25. A contract with > > nonzero donation level is called a Charity. > > > > The Notary CAN flip a contract's donation level to a non-default > > value with 3 Agoran consent, provided e has not done so for any > > contract in the current Agoran month. This SHOULD only be done if > > the contract's provisions ensure that its funds will be used solely > > for the betterment of Agora. Any player CAN flip a contract's > > donation level to 0 with Agoran consent. > > > > Whenever a payday occurs, half of each charity's coin holdings > > (rounded down) are destroyed, and then each charity earns a > > number of coins equal to its donation level. > > > > [the 'half are destroyed' bit is because we don't want charities to build > > up big bankrolls if they don't give things away]. > > DIS thread "simple way to give out funds". A few thoughts there > already, e.g. removing the one-per-month limit. > > - Falsifian Bump. Here's an updated text; all I did was remove the once-per-month restriction. G., what do you think about submitting this before nch's and R. Lee's possible victory? I'm happy to pend it (assuming DracoLotto worked as intended). Enact the following rule, Charities: Donation Level is a natural switch for contracts, tracked by the Notary, with a default of 0 and a maximum of 25. A contract with nonzero donation level is called a Charity. The Notary CAN flip a contract's donation level to a non-default value with 3 Agoran consent. This SHOULD only be done if the contract's provisions ensure that its funds will be used solely for the betterment of Agora. Any player CAN flip a contract's donation level to 0 with Agoran consent. Whenever a payday occurs, half of each charity's coin holdings (rounded down) are destroyed, and then each charity earns a number of coins equal to its donation level. - Falsifian
DIS: [Reportor] Last Week in Agora
Archived at https://github.com/AgoraNomic/Reportor/tree/master/weekly_summaries Report for the week of 2020-06-15..21: # Summary Welcome Zyborg! https://discord.gg/UGxm3v --- Agora suddenly has an unofficial Discord server. This happened when a downside of Agora's recent increased activity becomes impossible to ignore: the activity is hard to keep up with, and it might even be scaring new players away. There was some discussion of different strategies, but for now R. Lee went ahead and just created the server. We have a new PM, a new Notary, shiny new reports, some new things on the Web, and some possible regulations for the Github org. We might even be getting a new logo soon! See the "Offices, reports, website" section. There was debate this week about the Certification rule, starting with a question about what the Rulekeepor is allowed to certify. Eventually R. Lee just decided to start illegally certifying everything. The economics of proposal costs, and alternative proposals, were discussed. A healthy batch of proposals was adopted this week, but some had bugs preventing them from being applied. New proposals up for voting include a new Card-based subgame, officer regulations, and a term limit for the Prime Minister. Agora's current Contract craze continues: lots of trading and other Contract-based activity going on. Even space in Trigon's signature is for sale. See "Contracts and trading" below. Plenty of fixes and patches large and small are in the works, including handling zombies with assets instead of switches. See "Proposals to fix, simplify, etc" and "Other Proposals" below. Plenty more rule-related questions in the "Rules questions" section. # Email volume and chat clients Bögtil triggers a discussion on moving some discussion to chat rooms when e announces that e is leaving for now in the thread "Leaving" (retitled to "Leaving or something like that"). There's discussion about the advantages and disadvantages of IRC, Discord, Matrix and other options, which is continued in the threads "[Poll] A chat client for Agora" and "Fora and Accessibility", and a small side-discussion on archiving (thread: "Archival Continuity and Discussion Accessibility"). R. Lee goes ahead and creates a Discord server at https://discord.gg/UGxm3v , and nch reports some activity. Thread: "Action Is better than words" # Certification debate There's debate about how and whether it should be possible to pend bugfix proposals for free. * Partly the debate this week is triggered by Jason's argument that being Rulekeepor means all rules bugs relate to em so e's allowed to certify patches. Threads: "Black ribbon patch", "CFJ 3853 Assigned to nch"; this is also mentioned in the Rules questions section. * There's some discussion of the economic implications of being able to pend any proposal for a blot penalty in the thread "Black ribbon patch". * When CFJ 3853 is assigned to nch, e says: "As someone who strongly opposed the relevant rule, specifically because of its ambiguity, I feel like I've been Cassandra'd." - nch * Aris starts the thread "How and Whether to Change Patch Certification" for discussion. * R. Lee proposes to make patching unconditionally a crime. Thread: "We Might As Well Be Honest". The retitling of Rule 2626 to "Costly Certification" in eir proposal probably relates to this econonic perspective. * R. Lee then just goes ahead and certififies everything, then points eir finger at emself, in the thread "actually fuck it". * nch proposes a change which allows (effectively) pending without objection, and also tracks such proposals as "Special" instead of "Pending". Thread: "Ready Proposals" # Voting, and adoption of proposals * The decisions on whether to adopt Proposals 8431-8441 are resolved. Adopted: * Reduce rewards for high-AI proposals (8431) * Lower the bar for motions of no confidence, and stress they're not personal (8434, 8435) * Remove much of the Defense Against the Dark Arts rule (8437) * Give the Tailor an official weekly reporting duty (8438) * Allow election candidates to withdraw (8439) * The Rulekeepor identifies bugs in Proposals 8412, 8426 and 8429 that prevent them from being applied. Thread: "Notes on Application of Proposals 8409-8430" * R. Lee proposes fixes. Thread: "Rulekeeping Bug Fixes" * Voting begins on Proposals 8442-8457: * A subgame involving Cards. (8442) * A term limit for Prime Minister. (8443) * Change "in an officially timely fashion" to "in a sedate fashion". (8444) * Make it easier to change rule titles. (8445) * Auction off Victory Cards. (8446) * Ban scams involving new rules. (8447) * Another pass at officer-approved administrative regulations with an application for the Herald (8448, 8449) * The difference from the previous attempt is that now all players, not just officers, are eligible to support or object to regulations. * G.
DIS: Re: BUS: general objection
> On Jun 24, 2020, at 6:55 AM, Kerim Aydin via agora-business > wrote: > > > I object to any and all intents to declare apathy. But does this adequately identify the intents being objected to? (I think there might have been a CFJ along those lines in the past.)
Re: DIS: [Notary] Web Report Survey
> - Should everything be in one long webpage, or should each contract be > split into its own page? Having a one-page version available would be convenient for searching. - Falsifian
Re: DIS: [Notary] Web Report Survey
On 6/24/20 9:30 PM, ATMunn via agora-discussion wrote: > I'm planning on creating an online version of The Notes, my weekly > report. I think an online version will help tremendously in the > readability of the report, as you will be able to click on a contract in > some sort of table of contents to take you directly to the full text of > the contract. Scrolling sucks. > > Fortunately, the way I've formatted my reports, it should be quite easy > to write a Python script or whatever that converts it from text to HTML. > I also have quite a bit of CSS experience so I should be able to make it > look nice and neat. (don't worry, I won't go over-the-top with styling > though :P) > > However, I would like some input on what people want to see in an online > Notary report. These are my main questions: > > - Should everything be in one long webpage, or should each contract be > split into its own page? > > - If contracts are split into their own pages, should each pledge and > promise also be? Or should all the pledges and promises be on one page, > but still separate from the main report page? > > - Are there any other particular features or things you would find useful? > > I think it would be fine to have it all on one page with summary/details for the texts, but having everything on separate pages would be fine, too. Also, you may want to take a look at whatever Gaelan set up in eir (short) tenure as Notary [0]. [0]: https://github.com/agoraNomic/notary -- Jason Cobb
DIS: [Notary] Web Report Survey
I'm planning on creating an online version of The Notes, my weekly report. I think an online version will help tremendously in the readability of the report, as you will be able to click on a contract in some sort of table of contents to take you directly to the full text of the contract. Scrolling sucks. Fortunately, the way I've formatted my reports, it should be quite easy to write a Python script or whatever that converts it from text to HTML. I also have quite a bit of CSS experience so I should be able to make it look nice and neat. (don't worry, I won't go over-the-top with styling though :P) However, I would like some input on what people want to see in an online Notary report. These are my main questions: - Should everything be in one long webpage, or should each contract be split into its own page? - If contracts are split into their own pages, should each pledge and promise also be? Or should all the pledges and promises be on one page, but still separate from the main report page? - Are there any other particular features or things you would find useful? -- ATMunn friendly neighborhood notary here :)
Re: DIS: [Treasuror] Second draft of auction regulations
On 6/24/20 6:23 PM, Jason Cobb wrote: > This awardees clause does not anticipate excess lots, unlike the other > clause. Actually, ignore this. I thought the "undecidable" bit was in the forward auction, not the generalized auction. -- Jason Cobb
Re: DIS: [Treasuror] Second draft of auction regulations
On 6/24/20 6:09 PM, Reuben Staley via agora-discussion wrote: > METHOD 0: Generalized Auction > > Generalized auctions exist to give context to the form of other types of > auctions. They cannot be held directly. Other auction methods can > generally override attributes of generalized auctions, except when it is > explicitly stated that that attribute is not able to be overridden. > > 1. INITIATION: > * The auctioneer CAN begin an auction that e is authorized to by > creating a public message (henceforth the "initiation message"), > specifying the type of auction method that will be held, a list of > lots that will be auctioned off, and the currency that the auction > uses. Bidding is initally open. > * Auction methods cannot specify the exclusion of any information > listed above from the initiation message of auctions using that > method. > 2. BIDDING: > * Players CAN place a bid on an open auction by specifying an amount > of the auction's currency as eir bid not equal to the bid of > another player. I think this means I can place a bid of the same as my current bid on an auction, which isn't too big a deal except for... > 3. TERMINATION: > * Bidding is closed four days after either the beginning of the > auction or after the most recent bid was placed, whichever is > later. The auction ends at this time as well. This means that an auction could last forever. > * Sealed-bid auctions do not end when bidding is closed. Instead, they >end four days afterward. If you want to override when the auction ends in a specific method, you might want to put an "unless otherwise specified" on the generic method's ending clause. > * Each player SHOULD reveal eir bid amount on a sealed-bid auction while >the auction is closed but has not ended. If e does not do so then eir >bid is null. > * The termination message also includes whether or not each bid is null. > * The Nth awardee of a sealed-bid auction is the non-withdrawn player >whose bid is not null and is the Nth highest of all bids placed. > This awardees clause does not anticipate excess lots, unlike the other clause. -- Jason Cobb
DIS: [Treasuror] Second draft of auction regulations
This version should respond to all the feedback that I've received and
more. I made a boilerplate auction so that we could make more unique
auction methods without redefining everything. Think of the rest like
variations on a recipe or subtypes of an object. I wrote a rough
description of another type of auction (sealed-bid) to showcase the
benefits of the boilerplate that I made.
I tried to cut down on everything unnecessary because I don't want
another eight-rule-long definition for something that should just make
sense.
METHOD 0: Generalized Auction
Generalized auctions exist to give context to the form of other types of
auctions. They cannot be held directly. Other auction methods can
generally override attributes of generalized auctions, except when it is
explicitly stated that that attribute is not able to be overridden.
1. INITIATION:
* The auctioneer CAN begin an auction that e is authorized to by
creating a public message (henceforth the "initiation message"),
specifying the type of auction method that will be held, a list of
lots that will be auctioned off, and the currency that the auction
uses. Bidding is initally open.
* Auction methods cannot specify the exclusion of any information
listed above from the initiation message of auctions using that
method.
2. BIDDING:
* Players CAN place a bid on an open auction by specifying an amount
of the auction's currency as eir bid not equal to the bid of
another player.
* Players CAN withdraw from an open auction by announcement.
3. TERMINATION:
* Bidding is closed four days after either the beginning of the
auction or after the most recent bid was placed, whichever is
later. The auction ends at this time as well.
4. AWARDING:
* For each auction, there are a number of awardees equal to the
number of lots. The Nth lot of an auction goes to the Nth awardee
of that auction. If the identity of an awardee is undecidable, then
that lot cannot be given away.
* Auction methods specify how awardees are picked for auctions using
that method.
* The auctioneer of an auction SHALL within, four days after the
ending of that auction, create a public message (henceforth the
"termination message") that contains a full history of bids on the
auction and withdrawals from the auction. It should also clearly
indicate each awardee and the lot e recieves.
5. CLAIMING:
* For a period of seven days after an auction ends, each awardee of
that auction CAN transfer (or create in eir own possession if the
item is new) the set of assets associated with the lot e won by
paying a fee corresponding to eir winning bid.
METHOD 1: Forward Auctions
Forward auctions function like Generalized Auctions except:
* The Nth awardee for a forward auction is the non-withdrawn player who
submitted the Nth-highest bid in the set of all players' highest bids
(i.e. if Alice bids 10, Bob bids 20, and Alice bids 30, then the set
of highest bids is {Alice with 30, Bob with 20} so Alice is the first
awardee with her bid of 30 and Bob is the second awardee with is bid
of 20).
METHOD 2: Sealed-bid Auctions
Sealed-bid auctions function like Generalized Auctions except:
* Players can only submit bids on a sealed-bid auction if they do not
have a bid in that auction.
* Bids must be initially hidden so that it is impossible to tell its
value but that it is verifiable that the amount bid was decided before
the bid was placed. Anything that claims to be a bid and fits these
conditions is considered a bid.
* Sealed-bid auctions do not end when bidding is closed. Instead, they
end four days afterward.
* Each player SHOULD reveal eir bid amount on a sealed-bid auction while
the auction is closed but has not ended. If e does not do so then eir
bid is null.
* The termination message also includes whether or not each bid is null.
* The Nth awardee of a sealed-bid auction is the non-withdrawn player
whose bid is not null and is the Nth highest of all bids placed.
--
Trigon
I LOVE SPAGHETTI
transfer Jason one coin
nch was here
I hereby
don't... trust... the dragon...
don't... trust... the dragon...
Do not Construe Jason's message with subject TRIGON as extending this
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: general objection
I had it in mine for a bit the last time a rash of these broke out. On 6/24/2020 6:57 AM, Ed Strange via agora-discussion wrote: > (trigon, put this in your signature) > > On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 11:56 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-business < > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> >> I object to any and all intents to declare apathy. >> >> -G. >> >> >
DIS: Re: BUS: general objection
(trigon, put this in your signature) On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 11:56 PM Kerim Aydin via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > I object to any and all intents to declare apathy. > > -G. > > -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Apathy warning
On 6/24/20 8:51 AM, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion wrote: > On 6/24/20 6:08 AM, Alex Smith via agora-discussion wrote: >> On Wednesday, 24 June 2020, 04:16:48 GMT+1, random-internet-cat via >> agora-business wrote: >>> I, the player known as Jason that regularly sends email >>> fromjason.e.c...@gmail.com, intend, without objection, to declare apathy, >>> specifying [omd, Jason]. >>> >>> omd, if you see this, hi! >>> >>> I have sent messages from this email before - I believe it was to send some >>> code related to my ruleset thesis. >> This one, too. >> > > Awww... > > Explanation for those curious: > > The attachment was the EICAR antivirus test file, which everything is > supposed to treat as malware, but is really just a 68-byte text file. > Gmail wouldn't even send it from my own account, which is why I had to > use protonmail. > > The second attempt was because I realized I never specified a set of > players to win on the first attempt, and because I realized I should > probably bribe the Distributor. > This is an interesting test case. Given that you knew that it would likely cause a problem and that it is designed to be treated in the manner it was, I'm inclined to think that this would not have been effective. -- Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth
Re: DIS: Apathy warning
On 6/24/20 6:08 AM, Alex Smith via agora-discussion wrote: > On Wednesday, 24 June 2020, 04:16:48 GMT+1, random-internet-cat via > agora-business wrote: >> I, the player known as Jason that regularly sends email >> fromjason.e.c...@gmail.com, intend, without objection, to declare apathy, >> specifying [omd, Jason]. >> >> omd, if you see this, hi! >> >> I have sent messages from this email before - I believe it was to send some >> code related to my ruleset thesis. > This one, too. > Awww... Explanation for those curious: The attachment was the EICAR antivirus test file, which everything is supposed to treat as malware, but is really just a 68-byte text file. Gmail wouldn't even send it from my own account, which is why I had to use protonmail. The second attempt was because I realized I never specified a set of players to win on the first attempt, and because I realized I should probably bribe the Distributor. -- Jason Cobb
Re: DIS: Apathy warning
On 6/24/20 6:45 AM, Ed Strange via agora-business wrote: > I never actually received Jason's messages that you are replying to here, > so it doesn;'t count as public i guess. Anyway I object to Jason's apathy > intents. > > On Wed, Jun 24, 2020 at 8:09 PM Alex Smith via agora-discussion < > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> On Wednesday, 24 June 2020, 04:16:48 GMT+1, random-internet-cat via >> agora-business wrote: >>> I, the player known as Jason that regularly sends email >> fromjason.e.c...@gmail.com, intend, without objection, to declare apathy, >> specifying [omd, Jason]. >>> >>> omd, if you see this, hi! >>> >>> I have sent messages from this email before - I believe it was to send >> some code related to my ruleset thesis. >> >> This one, too. >> >> -- >> ais523 >> > > My memory is that including extra sections can make a message invalid, but purely designing a message to not be received can't, but someone would have to CFJ on it. -- Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Herald, Referee, Tailor, Pirate Champion, Badge of the Great Agoran Revival, Badge of the Salted Earth
DIS: Apathy warning (was: BUS: [Proposal] Fuses)
On Wednesday, 24 June 2020, 04:16:48 GMT+1, random-internet-cat via agora-business wrote: > I, the player known as Jason that regularly sends email > fromjason.e.c...@gmail.com, intend, without objection, to declare apathy, > specifying [omd, Jason]. > > omd, if you see this, hi! > > I have sent messages from this email before - I believe it was to send some > code related to my ruleset thesis. This one, too. -- ais523
DIS: Re: BUS: Definitely not an apathy intent
On Wednesday, 24 June 2020, 03:28:07 GMT+1, random-internet-cat via agora-business wrote: > I, the player known as Jason that regularly sends email from > jason.e.c...@gmail.com, intend, without objection, to declare apathy. > I have sent messages from this email before - I believe it was to send > something related to my ruleset thesis. I'm not a player, so can't do it myself, but somebody should probably object to this one. -- ais523
