DIS: Re: BUS: RE: BU S: Some moves and such

2018-09-30 Thread Corona
To converge the gamestate, I perform the following actions (all INEFFECTIVE
if I have successfully given everything to D. Margaux):
I spend 1 apple to move to (0, 2).
I spend 1 apple to move to (1, 2).
I spend 1 apple to move to (2, 2) and take all the assets from the
facility at that location.
I spend 1 apple to move to (2, 1) and take all the assets from the
facility at that location.
I spend 1 apple to move to (3, 1).
I spend 1 apple to move to (2, 1)
I spend 1 apple to move to (2, 0)
I spend 1 apple to move to (2, -1) and take all the assets from the
facility at that location.
I spend 2 apples to move to (2, -2) and take all the assets from the
facility at that location.
I spend 1 apple to move to (1, -2) and take all the assets from the
facility at that location.
I spend 1 apple to move to (0, -2)
I spend 1 apple to move to (0, -3).
I spend 1 apple to move to (0, -2)
I spend 1 apple to move to (0, -1)
I spend 1 apple to move to (-1, -1)
I spend 2 apples to move to (-2, -1).
I spend 2 apples to move to (-2, 0) and take all the assets from the
facility at that location.
I spend 1 apple to move to (-3, 0) and take all the assets from the
facility at that location.
I spend 1 apple to move to (-4, 0) and take all the assets from the
facility at that location.
I spend 1 apple to move to (-5, 0) and take all the assets from the
facility at that location.

I pay the following upkeep for the following facilities:

7(+2, +2)   2   Mine2 lumber
A(+2, -1)   2   Mine2 lumber
G(-3,  0)   2   Mine2 lumber
8(+2, +1)   2   Orchard 2 stones
B(+2, -2)   2   Orchard 2 stones
F(-2,  0)   2   Orchard 2 stones
J(-4,  0)   3   Orchard 4 stones
K(-5,  0)   3   Orchard 4 stones
C(+1, -2)   2   Farm1 lumber & 1 stone

I transfer all my liquid assets to D. Margaux
~Corona


On Sun, Sep 30, 2018 at 1:41 AM D Margaux  wrote:

> No idea if I got this all correct.  But here goes.
>
> I spend 1 apple to move to (0, 2).
> I spend 1 apple to move to (1, 2).
> I spend 1 apple to move to (2, 2) and take all the assets from the
> facility at that location.
> I spend 1 apple to move to (2, 1) and take all the assets from the
> facility at that location.
> I spend 1 apple to move to (3, 1).
> I spend 1 apple to move to (2, 1)
> I spend 1 apple to move to (2, 0)
> I spend 1 apple to move to (2, -1) and take all the assets from the
> facility at that location.
> I spend 2 apples to move to (2, -2) and take all the assets from the
> facility at that location.
> I spend 1 apple to move to (1, -2) and take all the assets from the
> facility at that location.
> I spend 1 apple to move to (0, -2)
> I spend 1 apple to move to (0, -3).
> I spend 1 apple to move to (0, -2)
> I spend 1 apple to move to (0, -1)
> I spend 1 apple to move to (-1, -1)
> I spend 2 apples to move to (-2, -1).
> I spend 2 apples to move to (-2, 0) and take all the assets from the
> facility at that location.
> I spend 1 apple to move to (-3, 0) and take all the assets from the
> facility at that location.
> I spend 1 apple to move to (-4, 0) and take all the assets from the
> facility at that location.
> I spend 1 apple to move to (-5, 0) and take all the assets from the
> facility at that location.
> On Sat, Sep 29, 2018 at 8:34 AM D Margaux  wrote:
> >
> > I pay 1 apple to move to (-1, 2).  I pay 1 apple to move to (0, 2).  I
> > take the coins at (0, 2).
> > [Comment: I am pretty confident that I can do this, even if the
> > initial transfer was
> > INEFFECTIVE, because I have Corona's implied consent]
> >
> > If Corona has transferred these facilities to me, then I pay the
> > following upkeep
> > for the following facilities:
> >
> > 6( 0, +2)   Refinery3 steel
> > 7(+2, +2)   2   Mine2 lumber
> > A(+2, -1)   2   Mine2 lumber
> > G(-3,  0)   2   Mine2 lumber
> > 8(+2, +1)   2   Orchard 2 stones
> > B(+2, -2)   2   Orchard 2 stones
> > F(-2,  0)   2   Orchard 2 stones
> > J(-4,  0)   3   Orchard 4 stones
> > K(-5,  0)   3   Orchard 4 stones
> > C(+1, -2)   2   Farm1 lumber & 1 stone
> >
> > If Corona has not transferred those facilities to me, then I still pay
> > the upkeep
> > specified above if and only if those payments of upkeep are EFFECTIVE
> > to prevent the facilities from being destroyed.
> >
> > [Comment: For example, maybe I can pay the upkeep by Corona's implied
> consent--
> > but if my payments are not EFFECTIVE to prevent their destruction, then
> I don't
> > want to spend the money.  Am I doing this right..?]
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 3:32 PM D Ma

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Click here for FREE land!

2018-09-28 Thread Corona
Oh, and you'll want to pay upkeep for those building or at least collect
the materials that have piled up in there, as they would otherwise be
destroyed in two days' time.

~Corona


On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 11:55 PM D Margaux  wrote:

> Thanks Corona!  And nice to meet you :-)
>
> I feel bad now for blotting you earlier today. Sorry bout that.
>
> On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 5:54 PM D Margaux  wrote:
>
> > I act on Coronas behalf to transfer all of Coronas liquid assets to me
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 5:52 PM Corona 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> As I think I don't have the steel or whatever to pay upkeep for my
> >> refinery, and am too busy/bored with Agora to micromanage my other
> >> properties, I give permission to any player to act on my behalf to
> >> transfer
> >> all of my liquid assets to emself, until the end of this September.
> >>
> >> I know, I could just let myself get zombified, but the buildings
> wouldn't
> >> survive and that would be a shame.
> >>
> >> This is not binding, but if I were to return in the future, and the
> >> economy
> >> didn't go through some sort of reset, I would like the player who
> claimed
> >> the assets offered in this message to give me at least a part of them
> back
> >> so I don't have to start from scratch.
> >>
> >> ~Corona
> >>
> > --
> > D. Margaux
> >
> --
> D. Margaux
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Click here for FREE land!

2018-09-28 Thread Corona
Oh, it's fine, nice to meet you too. Also, @H. Arbitor: if I'm still on the
Day Court, please remove me.

~Corona


On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 11:55 PM D Margaux  wrote:

> Thanks Corona!  And nice to meet you :-)
>
> I feel bad now for blotting you earlier today. Sorry bout that.
>
> On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 5:54 PM D Margaux  wrote:
>
> > I act on Coronas behalf to transfer all of Coronas liquid assets to me
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 5:52 PM Corona 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> As I think I don't have the steel or whatever to pay upkeep for my
> >> refinery, and am too busy/bored with Agora to micromanage my other
> >> properties, I give permission to any player to act on my behalf to
> >> transfer
> >> all of my liquid assets to emself, until the end of this September.
> >>
> >> I know, I could just let myself get zombified, but the buildings
> wouldn't
> >> survive and that would be a shame.
> >>
> >> This is not binding, but if I were to return in the future, and the
> >> economy
> >> didn't go through some sort of reset, I would like the player who
> claimed
> >> the assets offered in this message to give me at least a part of them
> back
> >> so I don't have to start from scratch.
> >>
> >> ~Corona
> >>
> > --
> > D. Margaux
> >
> --
> D. Margaux
>


DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land auctions -- July week 4

2018-08-01 Thread Corona
Wait... aren't zombies banned from bidding? How does this work?

On Wednesday, August 1, 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:

> On July 30, 2018 9:45 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:
> > (For reassurance: Using the zombie is not an attempt to get around the
> pledges/promises; I'm intending to exploit a totally different loophole. In
> fact I don't think it would even work to evade the promises, since I'm
> still bidding, just not on my own behalf.)
>
> I transfer all liquid assets in the possession of the orchard at (+5, 0) to
> myself.
>
> I act on behalf of Kenyon to transfer all liquid assets in the possession
> of
> the mine at (-1, +2) to Kenyon. I act on behalf of Kenyon to transfer all
> eir
> liquid assets to myself.
>
> As I have not won a land auction in the current or previous Agoran month, I
> destroy 1 corn to Stake a Land Claim on (+5, -1). I choose for (+5, -1) to
> be
> white.
>
> I act on behalf of Kenyon to submit and pend the following proposal:
> //
> Title: Return of the Zombie Loopholes
> Adoption index: 1.0
> Author: Kenyon
> Co-authors: twg
>
> Amend rule 2003, "Actions in Arcadia", by replacing the text "and has
> not won a land auction in the current or previous month" with "and has
> not, in the current or previous month, either won a land auction or
> been the master of a zombie when the zombie won a land auction".
>
> //
>
> I destroy 8 lumber and 4 stones to build a loom at (+5, -1). I transfer
> all my
> cotton to the loom at (+5, -1).
>
> -twg
>


-- 
~Corona


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Revamping movement

2018-08-01 Thread Corona
> > > > On Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 18:00 Aris Merchant <
> > > > thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > A playercan destroy... Eir is singular, and you're really talking
> about
> > > > > one
> > > > > player at a time anyway.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Aris
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Jul 31, 2018 at 4:16 PM Reuben Staley <
> reuben.sta...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > This is something I've been meaning to do for a long time. It's
> taken
> > > > > > from MALF. I submit and pend the following proposal:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Title: Revamping movement
> > > > > > AI: 1
> > > > > > Author: Trigon
> > > > > > Co-authors:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Amend rule 2003 "Actions in Arcadia" by replacing its text with:
> > > > > > Energy Points (abbreviated EP) is an untracked natural
> player
> > > > > > switch. Players can destroy one apple to increase eir
> Energy
> > > > > > Points by one. Players can destroy one corn to increase
> eir
> > > > > > Energy Points by three. At the beginning of the week,
> each
> > > > > > player's Energy Points switch is flipped to 0.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any player can decrease eir Energy Points by:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. 1 to move from one Land Unit to an adjacent Unit if
> their
> > > > > > Land
> > > > > >    Types are the same and the destination is not Aether;
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2. 2 to move from one Land Unit to an adjacent Unit if
> their
> > > > > > Land
> > > > > >Types differ and the destination is not Aether;
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3. 2 to set the Land Type of a Land Unit which e owns to
> > > > > > either
> > > > > >Black or White.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 4. 3 to set the Land Type of a Land Unit that is
> adjacent to
> > > > > > the
> > > > > >Entity's current location, is of type Aether, and is
> owned
> > > > > > by
> > > > > >Agora, to an alternating Land Type.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 5. 4 to set the Land Type of a Land Unit that is
> adjacent to
> > > > > > the
> > > > > >Entity's current location, is of type Aether, and is
> owned
> > > > > > by
> > > > > >Agora, to either Black or White.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 6. 6 to set the Land Type of any Land Unit that is of
> type
> > > > > > Aether
> > > > > >and is owned by Agora, to an alternating Land Type.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Trigon
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> >
> > --
> > Trigon
> >
>
>

-- 
~Corona


DIS: Re: BUS: [FRC] An Ambassadorial Consideration

2018-07-15 Thread Corona
 > [...] with which Agora would establish relations.

You mean G.A.N. Agora?

~Corona

On Sun, Jul 15, 2018 at 1:52 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I submit the below argument on the third docket:
>
> Your Honor,
>
> I agree with My Fellow Counsellor, Aris, that the office of Ambassador
> should be brought back. However, there remain many qvestion$ to
> consider, even after making that determination. Initially, it must be
> determined whether a separate Ambassador should be appointed for each
> Nomic, with which Agora would establish relations. I believe that it
> would be better to have a separate Ambassador for each Nomic, so that
> each Ambassador would have a better knowledge of the foreign Nomic.
> Additionally, I would propose that there be a Minister of Foreign
> Affairs, who would determine general policy and serve as the
> Ambassador to G.A.N. of F.R.C., in recognition of its special historic
> status, discussed on the first docket.
>


DIS: Re: BUS: [FRC] An Argument

2018-07-11 Thread Corona
Possibly INVALID: not referring to Agora properly, though this is an
indirect speech quotation, so it may not count.


> error in the presentation of eir reasons for Agora's eksallance. In
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [FRC] An Argument

2018-07-11 Thread Corona
​This isn't related to this rule in particular​, but isn't addressing you
"Your Honor" illegal, given #6: "The Right Honourable
Judge G. SHALL be referred to as such"?

~Corona

On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 5:57 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> appears VALID (again, formal response later).
>
> On Wed, 11 Jul 2018, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
> > I present the following argument on the first docket to the court:
> >
> > Your Honor, My Fellow Counselor V.J. Rada seems to have made a fatal
> > error in the presentation of eir reasons for Agora's eksallance. In
> > eir argument, e stated that e would present six reasons. However, he
> > proceeded to present five reasons. Your Honor, I do not believe that
> > making such false statements before the court should be tolerated.
> >
> > Your Honor, while I concur with My Fellow Counselor Aris's objections
> > to many of My Fellow Counselor V.J. Rada's reasons, I intend to argue
> > that the arguments before the court are needless division. I believe
> > that My Fellow Counselors V.J. Rada and Aris are engaging in a petty
> > battle to divide the Great and Ancient Nomics when it would be most
> > beneficial to all, if the Great and Ancient Nomics were to come
> > together in cooperation to attempt to develop a better understanding
> > of the theory and practice of Nomic and develop a larger following to
> > address the problems that My Fellow Counselor Aris noted, regarding
> > the lack of dedication within the playerbase of the Great and Ancient
> > Nomic of Agora. To this end, I propose that a Joint Commissions on the
> > Shared Interests be formed to address those issues that affect the
> > Great and Ancient Nomics, with representatives from all interested
> > nomics.
> >
>
>


Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: Re: [Cartographor] Land Auctions for July week 1

2018-07-10 Thread Corona
Me too, if I can find the time I'm going to make the proposal.

~Corona

On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 11:37 PM, Kerim Aydin 
wrote:

>
>
> Sorry, I replied to Discussion right after bidding closed to point them out
> clearly but it was under the very informative Subject Re:[Herald] Weekly
> Report or something.
>
> I'm now a complete convert of going to the hash-supported secret (or at
> least not time-rushed) bidding method.
>
> On Tue, 10 Jul 2018, Reuben Staley wrote:
> > Official decree from the Cartographor:
> > Please, in all future auctions, if you bid outside of the main thread, I
> > would really appreciate it if you contacted me privately, telling me the
> > auction number and bid amount. I'll include a memo similar to the one
> above
> > in each land auction announcement.
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 14:26 Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Really sorry, but the auction results are still incorrect.  I don't
> think
> > > you won any of the auctions.
> > >
> > > Yesterday, I first bid like this:
> > > > AUCTION 1: the land unit at (-6, -1)
> > > > If I am not the current highest bidder in this auction, I bid
> > > > 46 coins.
> > > >
> > > > AUCTION 2: the land unit at (-6, +1)
> > > > If I am not the current highest bidder in this auction, I bid
> > > > 46 coins.
> > > >
> > > > AUCTION 3: the land unit at (-6, -2)
> > > > If I am not the current highest bidder in this auction, I bid
> > > > 46 coins.
> > >
> > > Followed by:
> > > > I bid 66 Coins in the auction for the land unit at (-6, +1)
> > > > I bid 66 Coins in the auction for the land unit at (-6, +2)
> > > > I bid 66 Coins in the auction for the land unit at (+6, -1)
> > >
> > > I didn't specify the auction# on those last 3 bids, but the land units
> > > for those are bids on AUCTION 2, AUCTION 4, and AUCTION 5.
> > >
> > > So I think I win Auctions 1 and 3 for 46 coins, and auctions 2, 4, 5
> > > for 66 coins.  (with 2 bids in auction 2).
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 10 Jul 2018, Corona wrote:
> > > > *Gasp* handwriting can be legible??? I pay 38 coins to Agora for
> each of
> > > > these auctions where I'm the winner, for Agora to transfer to me the
> land
> > > > units that are the lots of these auctions.
> > > >
> > > > ~Corona
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 9:18 PM, Reuben Staley <
> reuben.sta...@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I do not believe there is any defined precedent for incorrect
> auction
> > > > > resolution, so... here's the corrected version: G. wins 1-3 for 66
> > > coins
> > > > > each. Corona wins 4-5 for 38 coins each.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Jul 10, 2018, 11:44 Reuben Staley  >
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Corona wins all the quoted auctions for 38 coins.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm out of town and have been therefore unable to use my computer
> > > for a
> > > > > > while. Therefore, this resolution was written up on a paper
> instead
> > > of
> > > > > > typed up in order to save me the headache of having to do mobile
> > > > > > formatting. Here it is:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://i.imgur.com/dJSh2OZ.jpg
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Don't CFJ this. Please.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Jul 2, 2018, 12:53 Reuben Staley <
> reuben.sta...@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > There are currently more public, unpreserved, non-aether land
> > > units in
> > > > > > > existence than I feel like counting. 5 land units of my choice
> are
> > > put
> > > > > > > up for auction.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For the following 5 auctions, I am the announcer, Agora is the
> > > > > > > auctioneer, and the minimum bid is 1 coin, and the lots are as
> > > such:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > AUCTION 1: the land unit at (-6, -1)
> > > > > > > AUCTION 2: the land unit at (-6, +1)
> > > > > > > AUCTION 3: the land unit at (-6, -2)
> > > > > > > AUCTION 4: the land unit at (-6, +2)
> > > > > > > AUCTION 5: the land unit at (+6, -1)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Trigon
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>


Re: DIS: Poll: Agoran MU*

2018-07-10 Thread Corona
1) and when you make it public I'll have a look to see if I can do 2).

~Corona

On Tue, Jul 10, 2018 at 6:42 AM, Aris Merchant <
thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm in the _very_ early stages of looking into creating a new MU* for
> Agora. The codebase would be hosted on the Agora GitHub org, and any
> player would be free to contribute code. My skills in this area are...
> well, not particularly astonishing, so I'd certainly appreciate help
> with code. The MU* would be written in Python, since that is one of
> the most common languages and especially easy to learn. I am also not
> in a great position to host the MU*, if this gets that far, so any
> volunteers for that would also be much appreciated.
>
> I would like comments on what level of participation players would be
> interested in giving. Please give a list of these options:
>
> 1 - interested in playing
> 2 - interested in coding and/or building
> 3 - interested in hosting the server (note that this might involve
> giving shell access to at least some other players, depending on how
> we set it up)
>
> I'd also like to hear people's level of interest, brainstorming of
> features, or any other remarks.
>
> -Aris
>


DIS: Re: OFF: [FRC] Recent Court Proceedings

2018-07-09 Thread Corona
​Isn't there a rule such that "arguments SHALL be sorted by docket by the
submitter or as being PROCEDURAL"​?

~Corona

On Mon, Jul 9, 2018 at 6:06 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> Persons who haven't entered yet still have a few hours!
>
>
> #5 Publius Scribonius Scholasticus 7 Jul 2018 19:34:47 -0400
> In the interest of bringing all evidence and opinions to the discussion,
> Acknowledging the burden of maintaining Counselorship,
> I request that the court allow Strangers (defined, in these rules as
> non-Counselors) to submit evidence and opinions to the court. Such
> evidence or opinions should be analysed by all counselors in the
> production of their further arguments.
>
> THE JUDGE RULES
> Counsellor, this is VALID.  However, what makes you think there are
> *any* non-counsellors in this courtroom?
> Style:  1.0
>
> #6 Publius Scribonius Scholasticus 7 Jul 2018 19:54:14 -0400
> In the interest of maintaining decorum, as required by FRC-1, I ask
> that the court require all Counselors and strangers to address each
> other with the deserved respect. Thus, all Counselors SHALL address
> each other in arguments, as My Fellow Counselor. The Right Honourable
> Judge G. SHALL be referred to as such, by all Counselors in all
> arguments. Holders of Nomic degrees who are Strangers higher than an
> Associate of Nomic SHALL be addressed, by all Counselors in all
> arguments, as The Learned for a Bachelor of Nomic, The Right Learned
> for a Master of Nomic, or The Most Learned for any Doctorate of Nomic.
> Holders of the patent title, "Champion", who are Strangers SHALL be
> addressed, by all Counselors in all arguments, as The Victorious.
> Holders of any Heroic patent title who are Strangers SHALL be
> addressed, by all Counselors in all arguments, as The Heroic, or if a
> Hero of Agora, the Right Heroic, or if a Grand Hero of Agora, the Most
> Heroic. Any current officers of Agora who are Strangers SHALL be
> addressed, by all Counselors in all arguments, as The Honourable. Any
> current or former Distributor of Agora SHALL be addressed, by all
> Counselors in all arguments, as The Right Honourable. I hope that
> these rules of Decorum should please the court.
>
> THE JUDGE RULES
> VALID.  We've heard from you a considerable amount, Counsellor.  Please
> take a seat until someone else has had a chance to speak.
> STYLE:  0.0
>
> OOC Comment
> In the Original FRC, Style "wins" award a very minor boon, so repeated
> entries to increase style aren't really a thing.  Here, since a style
> win is equivalent to a validity win, repeated entries for style is a
> bit of a loophole.  TO COUNTERACT THAT, from henceforth, the *maximum*
> Style I will award any "in a row" VALID entries from one person will
> be 0. (does not apply if you're following up after an INVALID entry).
>
>
>
>
>


DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Prime Minister] there's no confidence in the economy, so...

2018-07-06 Thread Corona
[...]​

> I want players to enjoy playing the
> game. If elected, I will try to figure out what the players want, and use
> my power as Prime Minister to ensure that their will is carried out.
>

​Well, my honorable competitor doesn't really need to be a Prime Minister
to carry out the will of the (presumably majority of) players, right,
except possibly to outvote minorities on high-AI proposals, right? This
raises the question whether my honorable competitor (or anyone) becoming
Prime Minister is beneficial to Agora.

///

But never mind all that, I don't have any concrete reform plans (not saying
I wouldn't make any if elected!). When I last asked about the Prime
Minister's extra vote, I was told it was there because it was thought to be
fun. Also, the ruleset's description of the Prime Minister is rather
jocular (a rarity in the ruleset), and my honorable competitor has been
recently criticized for being hasty etc. Therefore, I thought that perhaps
some Agorans would vote for me, even if I didn't have an agenda (other than
not being my honorable competitor), just for "the lulz".
I know it's a bizarre tactic, but I once got elected as student council rep
while partially using it, so I thought it might work.

(Also, I wanted to at least delay my honorable opponent's Prime
Minister-hood, as e has voted differently on some of the current proposals,
and if the election, being uncontested, were resolved at the end of the
nomination period, it would be before the proposals are resolved.)


DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land Auctions for July week 1

2018-07-06 Thread Corona
​2,3 and 4 have already ended, and it's INEFFECTIVE regardless (less than
minimum bid).

~Corona

On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 7:49 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> I bid:
> -17 Coins in auction 1.
> -17 Coins in auction 2.
> -17 Coins in auction 3.
> -17 Coins in auction 4.
> -17 Coins in auction 5.
>
> On Thu, 5 Jul 2018, Corona wrote:
> > I bid 32 coins in auction 1.
> > I bid 34 coins in auction 5.
> >
> > ~Corona
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 9:22 PM, Kerim Aydin 
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > I bid 32 coins in auction 5.
> > >
> > > On Mon, 2 Jul 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > > > I bid 25 coins in auction 5.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 2 Jul 2018, Reuben Staley wrote:
> > > > > There are currently more public, unpreserved, non-aether land
> units in
> > > > > existence than I feel like counting. 5 land units of my choice are
> put
> > > up for
> > > > > auction.
> > > > >
> > > > > For the following 5 auctions, I am the announcer, Agora is the
> > > auctioneer, and
> > > > > the minimum bid is 1 coin, and the lots are as such:
> > > > >
> > > > > AUCTION 1: the land unit at (-6, -1)
> > > > > AUCTION 2: the land unit at (-6, +1)
> > > > > AUCTION 3: the land unit at (-6, -2)
> > > > > AUCTION 4: the land unit at (-6, +2)
> > > > > AUCTION 5: the land unit at (+6, -1)
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Trigon
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8058-8065

2018-07-06 Thread Corona
NTTPF.

~Corona

On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 8:56 AM, Aris Merchant <
thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 6:48 PM ATMunn  wrote:
>
> > I vote as follows:
> >
> > > 8058*  V.J. Rada  1.0  Medal of Honour Auctions  V.J. Rada
> > PRESENT. The original intent of Medals of Honour would be for the person
> > deemed most honorable to get them, not whoever is the richest.
> > > 8059*  G. 1.0  honour is its own reward  G.
> > FOR. I'm repealing my own rule. hooray.
> > > 8060*  V.J. Rada  1.8  Notary-B-Gone V.J. Rada
> > FOR
> > > 8061+  Aris   1.0  Free ProposalsAris
> > FOR
> > > 8062*  Trigon 3.0  The End of the World, Again   Trigon
> > PRESENT. I think maybe this economy could have a chance. Also, if this
> > doesn't pass, I still have that realms proposal that I might work on.
> > > 8063*  V.J. Rada  2.0  IAR Writs Repeal  V.J. Rada
> > PRESENT, idk what this is doing
> > > 8064*  G. 1.0  Land Grants   G.
> > FOR
> > > 8065*  twg2.0  No undead courts  twg
> > FOR
> >
> ATMunn, would you have your zombie vote likewise?
>
> -Aris
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land Auctions for July week 1

2018-07-05 Thread Corona
I was the one to advocate early release with bugs fixed through
playtesting, and I'm guilty of abandoning my reform plans too, I'm sorry.

An important point I'd like to make (for future economies if the current
one can't be salvaged): I'm not sure where I read it anymore, but Agora is
supposed to have these "lightning rods" in place to prevent/discourage a
player or a group of players from acquiring permanent dominance (but
simultaneously reward the players for their achievement). That is, when
such dominance would happen, the progress that the player has made towards
it is erased, and the player gets a win, and play can go on. This mechanic
should be present in the economy too.

E.g. the Black Ribbons/Win by Clout for the voting aspect of Agora, or the
fairly recent Politics system, which, ignoring the (fixable) bugs would
have worked quite nicely - when a player gained a majority of the
politicians' votes, they got a win and all of eir currencies related to the
Politics system were reset, allowing play to resume.


@G.: Yes. It's not like I wasn't playing by the same rules as everyone else
(I didn't even exploit any bug, the one I tried didn't work), I just looted
and bid more often. And creating a monopoly should be handled by a
"lightning rod", see above.

~Corona

On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 7:45 PM, Reuben Staley 
wrote:

> If we want to "fix" Arcadia, we need to figure out what the underlying
> issues are. So what /are/ the issues with these mechanics?
>
> I did not take zombies into consideration when writing up the original
> PAoaM proposal. Zombies provided a cheap way to get double your monthly
> income when I wanted the only way to gain more income to be by interacting
> with the facilities mechanic. If zombies hadn't been a thing, maybe the
> monopolies wouldn't have been so simple to nail down.
>
> It was unbalanced in ways that I couldn't have forseen. Upgrading
> Processing Facilities is something we're just getting into now, but it's an
> important thing. A rank 5 mine feeding 10 ore a week into a rank 5
> refinery... that is 130 coins a week. Once someone goes a couple weeks with
> this setup, they might be impossible to defeat.
>
> Players also stopped caring. Maybe if we had some of the early adopters of
> the Arcadia mechanics still playing, it would be easier to gang up on the
> monopolists, but many of them have simply stopped caring about these
> mechanics. It's gotten too dramatic.
>
> I was not the best at being an effective Cartographor. I didn't do weekly
> land auctions half of the time. I could have done a lot more to ensure
> healthy development of the map.
>
> PAoaM was a buggy mess that took months to fix. That really hindered
> people's enjoyment of it for ~3 months after it passed.
>
> In my opinion, the Arcadia subgame has gotten progressively less fun due
> to a multitude of reasons. People keep on trying to patch it, but all those
> patches fall through and are either abandoned by their creator or they
> don't actually fix the underlying issues.
>
> But, as G. says here, the underlying issues might not even the biggest
> problem. A lack of knowledge on how these mechanics will effect the game
> is. We. Don't. Playtest. And I don't know how keen others would be on trial
> and error to find a balanced set of mechanics. That sure sounds like a
> borefest to me.
>
> If it's true that to get a perfect set of mechanics is just repeated
> tests, count me with the repeal-the-whole-dang-thing crowd. I think lots of
> us here would agree.
>
> I know I said that I wanted to preserve the Arcadian mechanics as long as
> I could but I'm beginning to think that it really is time to get rid of
> these mechanics. Hopefully someone else can come up with a breakthrough.
>
>
> On 07/05/2018 11:22 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Eh, mark me as someone who would be burned out.
>>
>> It took - hmm, a few months play, a coin/corn bug, and a big payroll from
>> zombies to open up the board (for everyone) and get some land enough to
>> get
>> to this point.
>>
>> At this point - with several land - I'm starting to get into the worker
>> placement and currency budgeting part and it's kind of interesting.  I'm
>> even willing to keep trying for a little bit as-is.  But I'm not keen
>> enough to do a reset and go through all that again over months to get to
>> this point.
>>
>> Now maybe your reforms would help substantially, but they're not
>> play-tested.
>> If we could tweak in fast-time ("go through" enough rounds without taking
>> weeks to do so each time) we might find a set of rules that worked via
>> playtesting.  Maybe doing auctions differently would help.  But after
>> s

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land Auctions for July week 1

2018-07-05 Thread Corona
​What about just resetting the economy (to the same state as when it was
enacted) while implementing Trigon's planned reforms?

~Corona

On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 4:44 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> And  yeah, not to do with paper, but on the Coins side I'm done
> here.
> I'll support a full repeal of this mess.  Restraint is not something that
> everyone does well.
>
> On Thu, 5 Jul 2018, Corona wrote:
> > I bid 32 coins in auction 1.
> > I bid 34 coins in auction 5.
> >
> > ~Corona
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 9:22 PM, Kerim Aydin 
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > I bid 32 coins in auction 5.
> > >
> > > On Mon, 2 Jul 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > > > I bid 25 coins in auction 5.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 2 Jul 2018, Reuben Staley wrote:
> > > > > There are currently more public, unpreserved, non-aether land
> units in
> > > > > existence than I feel like counting. 5 land units of my choice are
> put
> > > up for
> > > > > auction.
> > > > >
> > > > > For the following 5 auctions, I am the announcer, Agora is the
> > > auctioneer, and
> > > > > the minimum bid is 1 coin, and the lots are as such:
> > > > >
> > > > > AUCTION 1: the land unit at (-6, -1)
> > > > > AUCTION 2: the land unit at (-6, +1)
> > > > > AUCTION 3: the land unit at (-6, -2)
> > > > > AUCTION 4: the land unit at (-6, +2)
> > > > > AUCTION 5: the land unit at (+6, -1)
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Trigon
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Free Proposals

2018-07-05 Thread Corona
Leaving the paper framework for a possible repurposing seems like a better
idea to me. Nobody would make paper while it would be useless, so the
economy would not be affected.

~Corona

On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 8:20 AM, Reuben Staley 
wrote:

> This would be fine but it completely nullifies paper. A better way to do
> this while preserving the economy would be to get rid of paper and looms
> then add lumber to the list of unrefinable resources. Also, everyone gets
> paper once a month so participation in the economy is completely optional
> still. And if anyone somehow uses up all their paper, I can just give you
> some. Though that's not going to happen anytime soon because paper is being
> consumed slower than it's being produced. All in all, there are quite a few
> things wrong with this proposal that would prevent me from voting for it.
>
> On Wed, Jul 4, 2018, 23:58 Aris Merchant  gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I've gotten sick and tired of restrictions being placed on gameplay to
> > force people into economies. I have no objection to the economy
> > affecting ordinary play, but it should be truly optional. I love how
> > these days people CFJ whenever they have a concern, without worrying
> > about it cutting into their reserves. Proposals are a contribution to
> > the game. Most of them try to make gameplay better for everyone. We
> > should not discourage people from contributing; if anything, we should
> > reward them.
> >
> > This is deliberately minimal. I'm leaving paper in place to allow it
> > to be repurposed for something else. People should not spam proposals,
> > so my proposals allows five pends per week. The Promotor gets another
> > five for other people's proposals, on the assumption that e will use
> > them to pend proposals that players have forgotten to pend, or if
> > another player legitimately bumps into eir cap.
> >
> > I submit the following proposal. I'm going to pend it unless someone
> > finds a technical problem, or we decide on a better solution to the
> > paper situation.
> >
> > -Aris
> > ---
> > Title: Free Proposals
> > Adoption index: 1.0
> > Author: Aris
> > Co-authors:
> >
> > Change Rule 2445, "How to Pend a Proposal", to read in full:
> >
> >   Imminence is a switch, tracked by the Promotor, possessed by
> >   proposals in the Proposal Pool, whose value is either "pending" or
> >   "not pending" (default).
> >
> >   Any player CAN flip a specified proposal's imminence to "pending"
> >   by announcement, but cannot use this method more than five times
> >   each week. The first five proposals pended by the Promotor of which e
> >   is not the author do not count against eir weekly limit.
> >
>


DIS: Re: BUS: Free Proposals

2018-07-05 Thread Corona
The majority of people are not in danger of running out of paper, but sure,
I'll support this.

Paper _is_ rather difficult to manufacture, requiring two land units with
facilities (orchard+mill), preferably also a third one (mine) for
sustainability.

~Corona

On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 7:57 AM, Aris Merchant <
thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I've gotten sick and tired of restrictions being placed on gameplay to
> force people into economies. I have no objection to the economy
> affecting ordinary play, but it should be truly optional. I love how
> these days people CFJ whenever they have a concern, without worrying
> about it cutting into their reserves. Proposals are a contribution to
> the game. Most of them try to make gameplay better for everyone. We
> should not discourage people from contributing; if anything, we should
> reward them.
>
> This is deliberately minimal. I'm leaving paper in place to allow it
> to be repurposed for something else. People should not spam proposals,
> so my proposals allows five pends per week. The Promotor gets another
> five for other people's proposals, on the assumption that e will use
> them to pend proposals that players have forgotten to pend, or if
> another player legitimately bumps into eir cap.
>
> I submit the following proposal. I'm going to pend it unless someone
> finds a technical problem, or we decide on a better solution to the
> paper situation.
>
> -Aris
> ---
> Title: Free Proposals
> Adoption index: 1.0
> Author: Aris
> Co-authors:
>
> Change Rule 2445, "How to Pend a Proposal", to read in full:
>
>   Imminence is a switch, tracked by the Promotor, possessed by
>   proposals in the Proposal Pool, whose value is either "pending" or
>   "not pending" (default).
>
>   Any player CAN flip a specified proposal's imminence to "pending"
>   by announcement, but cannot use this method more than five times
>   each week. The first five proposals pended by the Promotor of which e
>   is not the author do not count against eir weekly limit.
>


Re: DIS: integer overflow: too many emails

2018-07-02 Thread Corona
I don't know if you're joking or not, but I'd say the land auction, better
auctions thread and cartographor report

~Corona

On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 10:12 PM, ATMunn  wrote:

> So it's been a little while since I've checked my email, and now my Agora
> folder looks like this. https://puu.sh/APOgB/e2f0c58e9a.png
>
> That's a lot of messages. What are the most important ones to look at? I
> don't feel like going through each and every one...
>


DIS: Re: BUS: Land Grants for poorer farmers

2018-07-02 Thread Corona
I don't think that what constitutes an "active" player is defined in the
rules.

~Corona

On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 9:20 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> I submit the following Proposal, Land Grants, AI=1:
> 
> Amend Rule 2003 (Actions in Arcadia) by adding the following
> list item at the end of the numbered list:
>
>   7. 3 apples to Stake a Land Claim on a specified land unit that is
>  adjacent to the Entity's current location, is of type Aether,
>  and is owned by Agora, if and only if e is active, has not
>  staked a land claim in the current month, and has not won a
>  land auction in the current or previous month.  When e stakes a
>  land claim, the unit's land type is set to the land type of eir
>  choice, then is transferred to em, then e moves onto that unit.
>
> 
>
>
>


DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land Auctions for July week 1

2018-07-02 Thread Corona
Oh right, sorry. I misremembered the rule, thinking only non-Aether land
units counted.

~Corona

On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 9:20 PM, Reuben Staley 
wrote:

> Actually, we're not even close. 30 land units are currently owned by
> entities other than Agora out of 169.
>
> I bid 30 coins in auction 1.
>
>
> On 07/02/2018 01:16 PM, Corona wrote:
>
>> Trigon, you should start counting these land units as, we're nearing the
>> 50% private land cap.
>>
>> I bid 26 coins in all of the quoted auctions.
>>
>> ~Corona
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 8:57 PM, Kerim Aydin 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I bid 25 coins in auction 5.
>>>
>>> On Mon, 2 Jul 2018, Reuben Staley wrote:
>>>
>>>> There are currently more public, unpreserved, non-aether land units in
>>>> existence than I feel like counting. 5 land units of my choice are put
>>>>
>>> up for
>>>
>>>> auction.
>>>>
>>>> For the following 5 auctions, I am the announcer, Agora is the
>>>>
>>> auctioneer, and
>>>
>>>> the minimum bid is 1 coin, and the lots are as such:
>>>>
>>>> AUCTION 1: the land unit at (-6, -1)
>>>> AUCTION 2: the land unit at (-6, +1)
>>>> AUCTION 3: the land unit at (-6, -2)
>>>> AUCTION 4: the land unit at (-6, +2)
>>>> AUCTION 5: the land unit at (+6, -1)
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Trigon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> --
> Trigon
>


DIS: Re: OFF: Re: [Cartographor] Land auctions for June week 4

2018-07-02 Thread Corona
Yeah, I already paid.

~Corona

On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 8:48 PM, Reuben Staley 
wrote:

> I resolve the land auctions. Corona wins all of them for 21 coins. Total
> cost is a staggering 105 coins.
>
> I hate my life.
>
> AUCTION 1: the land unit at (-2, -1)
>
>   bidderbid
> -
>   VJ Rada   5c.
> x ATMunn6c.
> x Corona    14c.
> x Trigon15c.
> x Corona16c.
>   Trigon17c.
>   ATMunn20c.
>   Corona21c.
>
> AUCTION 2: the land unit at ( 0, -3)
>
>   bidderbid
> -
>   VJ Rada   5c.
> x ATMunn6c.
> x Corona    14c.
>   Trigon15c.
> x Corona16c.
>   ATMunn20c.
>   Corona21c.
>
> AUCTION 3: the land unit at (-4,  0)
>
>   bidderbid
> -
>   VJ Rada   5c.
> x ATMunn6c.
> x Corona14c.
> x ATMunn17c.
> x Corona18c.
>   ATMunn20c.
>   Corona21c.
>
> AUCTION 4: the land unit at (-5,  0)
>
>   bidderbid
> -----
>   VJ Rada   5c.
> x ATMunn6c.
> x Corona14c.
> x ATMunn17c.
> x Corona18c.
>   ATMunn20c.
> x Corona1c.
> x Corona21c.
>
> AUCTION 5: the land unit at (-6,  0)
>
>   bidderbid
> -
>   VJ Rada   5c.
> x ATMunn6c.
> x Corona14c.
> x ATMunn17c.
> x Corona18c.
>   ATMunn20c.
> x Corona1c.
>   Corona21c.
>
> On 06/21/2018 08:26 PM, Reuben Staley wrote:
>
>> There are currently more public, unpreserved, non-aether land units in
>> existence than I care to count. 5 land units of my choice are put up for
>> auction.
>>
>> For the following 5 auctions, I am the announcer, Agora is the
>> auctioneer, and the minimum bid is 1 coin, and the lots are as such:
>>
>> AUCTION 1: the land unit at (-2, -1)
>> AUCTION 2: the land unit at ( 0, -3)
>> AUCTION 3: the land unit at (-4,  0)
>> AUCTION 4: the land unit at (-5,  0)
>> AUCTION 5: the land unit at (-6,  0)
>>
>>
> --
> Trigon
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Resolving Referee election

2018-07-02 Thread Corona
By the way, what's the point of the Prime Minister having two votes? If
it's to protect against an invasion, it's terribly ineffective compared to
festivals, as it's not that hard for the invaders to bring one more player
(whether a real person or a sockpuppet) to bear.

~Corona

On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 6:38 AM, Aris Merchant <
thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 9:17 PM Edward Murphy  wrote:
>
> > G. wrote:
> >
> > > Claim of Error:  As Prime Minister my voting strength is 2 (R2423),
> > > which makes a difference in this case.
> >
> > Accepted. Corrected results of the Referee election:
> >
> > > On Sun, 24 Jun 2018, Edward Murphy wrote:
> > >> Voting for Referee ended a few hours ago. Quorum was met (unless I was
> > >> badly mistaken about it).
> > >>
> > >> Aris withdrew as a candidate. Rule 2154 regulates ceasing to be a
> > >> candidate and does not include "by announcement" as a mechanism, so
> > >> votes including em are still valid. However, it may be interpreted as
> > >> withdrawing consent, which would cause Rule 1006 (which takes
> precedence
> > >> over 2154) to prevent em from being installed.
> > >>
> > >> Votes:
> > >>Corona and 天火狐 voted {Corona, V.J. Rada, Aris}
> > >>Aris voted {Corona, Aris, V.J. Rada}
> > >>V.J. Rada voted {V.J. Rada, Aris, Corona}
> > >>ATMunn voted {Aris, Corona, V.J. Rada}
> > >>G., o, and Telnaior voted {V.J. Rada} (G. changed eir initial vote)
> > >>twg voted PRESENT
> > >>PSS voted {Aris, Corona, V.J. Rada}
> > >>Murphy votes PRESENT
> > >>
> > >> First pass:
> > >>Corona got 3 votes (Corona, 天火狐, Aris)
> > >>V.J. Rada got 4 votes (V.J. Rada, G., o, Telnaior)
> > >>    Aris got 2 votes (ATMunn, PSS)
> > >>No majority
> > >>Candidate with least votes (Aris) eliminated
> >
> > V.J. Rada actually got 5 votes, still no majority, Aris still
> > eliminated.
> >
> > >> Second pass:
> > >>Corona got 5 votes (Corona, 天火狐, Aris, ATMunn, PSS)
> > >>V.J. Rada got 4 votes (V.J. Rada, G., o, Telnaior)
> > >>Corona is selected
> >
> > V.J. Rada still got 5 votes, still no majority, Rule 955 requires the
> > vote collector to pick exactly one candidate to eliminate. In the spirit
> > of IRV, I do so as follows:
> >
> > * Among those voting for Corona, two originally had V.J. Rada as their
> >second choice (Corona, 天火狐) and three had em as their third (Aris,
> >ATMunn, PSS).
> >
> > * Among those voting for V.J. Rada, one originally had Corona as their
> >third choice (V.J. Rada) and three didn't have em at all (G., o.,
> >Telnaior).
> >
> > Accordingly, I choose Corona to eliminate. V.J. Rada is selected.
>
>
> V.J., congrats on your election! I hope you will consider taking a more
> cooperative stance than you did during your previous time in the office.
> G.'s policies have been both just and fair, and I hope you will consider
> continuing them.
>
> Corona, commiserations on the narrow loss.
>
> -Aris
>
> >
> >
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Registrar] Zombie auction resolution

2018-07-01 Thread Corona
I support this notion, but to reduce guessing, the secret auction (or
whatever it's called) method should be used: You submit the *maximum*
you're willing to offer for the lot, but you actually only have to pay the
*minimum* winning amount, that is, the next highest bid + 1.

Example:
3 zombies available, in order of desirability: X, Y, Z
4 players A, B, C, D

A bids 11, B bids 8, C bids 4, D bids 3.

A would win zombie X even if e offered only 9, since no other player is
willing to offer more than 8, so eir bid gets reduced to 9.

By the same reasoning, B's bid gets reduced to 5, but C's bid doesn't get
reduced (unless possibly he bid ealier than D?).

So:
A pays 9, gets X
B pays 5, gets Y
C pays 4, gets Z
(D doesn't win anything)

On Sunday, July 1, 2018, Rebecca  wrote:

> The reason is probably that, because there are four lots and bids are
> retractable, it would take a ton of bids to get to the optimal point.
> I maintain that we should have everyone submit ONE secret bid to the
> auctioneer which is revealed publicly at week's end.
>
> On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 2:39 AM, Kerim Aydin 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > All that said, I have no damn clue why the minimum winning bid on
> > a zombie with 40 coins isn't 39 coins.  It's a no-brainer, and if we were
> > sitting around a board game table I don't doubt the bidding action
> > would push that high out of straight rational board game play.  That
> > really defies my expectations.
> >
> > On Sun, 1 Jul 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> >> We purposefully set out a year ago to have a sustainable long-term
> >> economy - from experience with our past "long-term" economies
> >> we let then run for 2-3 years before getting bored enough to scrap.
> >>
> >> The thing is, even real world economies tend towards concentrations
> >> of wealth - the principle of investment/encouragement to participate
> >> is the positive feedback loop (investments pay off), which make growth
> >> exponential, which means a leader will multiply eir advantage.
> >>
> >> I think the best quick fix here is limiting land auctions in some way
> >> that land ownership remains balanced by making it exponentially
> >> harder for the rich to buy basic land (though this concept is basic
> >> the technical implementation is tricky though).
> >>
> >> On Sun, 1 Jul 2018, Rebecca wrote:
> >> > Not that I think blognomic is the best way of doing things. Unlike
> >> > blognomic, this game's main attraction is slow development, proposals
> >> > and legal interpretation: all of which are entirely equitable from the
> >> > outset.
> >> >
> >> > On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 8:49 PM, Rebecca 
> wrote:
> >> > > (sorry for the spamming but)
> >> > >
> >> > > I think the old zombie system was (as Cuddlebeam would have it)
> >> > > gerontocratic, But ultimately, all Agoran systems are meant to be
> >> > > temporary and award non-scam-based victories based on economic or
> >> > > systems manipulation over a reasonably short period of time. In a
> >> > > period in which not all are playing optimally, but some are (such as
> >> > > G., who was the only person bothered to win auctions), we must not
> >> > > equalize the playing field by removing unfair game systems, but
> >> > > instead create doable victory conditions and allow players to reach
> >> > > them based on their not-inequitably-created advantage.
> >> > >
> >> > > An advantage of blognomic's systems (channeling CB a lot here) is
> that
> >> > > a new player can rarely win while joining mid-dynasty but is totally
> >> > > level in the next dynasty, usually weeks off. By seeking to remove
> >> > > older players' advantage, we disadvantage new players more
> >> > > permanently.
> >> > >
> >> > > On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 8:40 PM, Rebecca 
> wrote:
> >> > >> That's nearly always objectively correct.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Note also that because bids can be retracted, PSS could have and
> >> > >> should have retracted his bid here and bid 3, giving em (even more)
> >> > >> free money. Zombie auctions cannot be sustained like this, although
> >> > >> zombies themselves are interesting.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 8:31 PM, Corona <
> liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > >>> That is a logical consequence o

DIS: Re: BUS: Zombie Kenyon gives up and builds a mine instead

2018-07-01 Thread Corona
By the way, you don't need to specify sequential order as (R478):

Actions in messages (including
  sub-messages) are performed in the order they appear in the
  message, unless otherwise specified.


~Corona

On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 12:24 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:

> I perform each of the following 7 actions, consecutively, in sequential
> order, if and only if every previous action in the list succeeded.
>
> 1. I transfer 2 coins, 10 lumber and 3 stones to Kenyon.
> 2. I act on Kenyon's behalf to upgrade the mine at (-1, +2) to Rank 2 by
> destroying 3 coins and 2 lumber.
> 3. I upgrade the orchard at (+5, 0) to Rank 2 by destroying 3 coins and 2
> stones.
> 4. I act on Kenyon's behalf to upgrade the mine at (-1, +2) to Rank 3 by
> destroying 4 coins and 4 lumber.
> 5. I upgrade the orchard at (+5, 0) to Rank 3 by destroying 4 coins and 4
> stones.
> 6. I act on Kenyon's behalf to upgrade the mine at (-1, +2) to Rank 4 by
> destroying 5 coins, 4 lumber and 3 stones.
> 7. I upgrade the orchard at (+5, 0) to Rank 4 by destroying 5 coins, 4
> stones and 3 lumber.
>
> Finally, I transfer all liquid assets belonging to the orchard at (+5, 0)
> to myself, and I act on Kenyon's behalf to transfer all Kenyon's liquid
> assets to myself.
>
> ​​-twg
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>
> On June 30, 2018 12:01 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:
>
> > ​​
> >
> > It's a good thing I put that safety clause in, because it seems Corona's
> zombie has already looted (-1, +1). So all 4 actions in the quoted list
> fail. I should've been more proactive about updating my Treasuror report
> draft...
> >
> > I transfer 1 apple and 5 lumber to Kenyon.
> >
> > I act on behalf of Kenyon to perform each of the following 2 actions,
> consecutively, in sequential order, if and only if every previous action in
> the list succeeded.
> >
> > 1.  Destroy Kenyon's apple to move Kenyon to (-1, +2).
> > 2.  Create a mine at (-1, +2) by destroying Kenyon's 5 lumber.
> >
> > Finally, I act on behalf of Kenyon to transfer all Kenyon's liquid
> assets to myself.
> >
> > -twg
> >
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> >
> > On June 30, 2018 11:33 AM, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> >
> >
> > > I act on behalf of Kenyon to perform each of the following 4 actions,
> consecutively, in sequential order, if and only if every previous action in
> the list succeeded.
> > >
> > > 1.  Transfer all 6 apples and all 6 lumber from the orchard at (-1,
> +1) to Kenyon.
> > >
> > > 2.  Destroy 2 of Kenyon's apples to move Kenyon to (-1, 0).
> > >
> > > 3.  Destroy 1 of Kenyon's apples to move Kenyon to (-1, -1).
> > >
> > > 4.  Transfer all 6 stones and all 4 ore from the mine at (-1, -1) to
> Kenyon.
> > >
> > > Finally, I act on behalf of Kenyon to transfer all Kenyon's liquid
> assets to myself.
> > >
> > > -twg
> > >
>
>
>


DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Treasuror] Agora and G. accumulate more wealth; zombies & public facilities bankrupt, as always

2018-07-01 Thread Corona
​Do you mean when I was Treasuror? I was already fined by G. for that,
you'll need to point out a specific week when I didn't publish a report and
for which I hadn't been fined yet. Also note that I can't be fined for
something that happened more than 14 days ago.

~Corona

On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 12:13 PM, Rebecca  wrote:

> I point a finger at Corona for missing multiple instances of this report.
>
> On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 7:28 PM, Ned Strange 
> wrote:
> > holy shit i have 19 paper and 80 coins i'm a rich boi maybe i should
> > actually pay attention to this land system
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 6:12 AM, Corona 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> (This report is also a revision of the last report)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> +-++++---+++
> ++++
> >> |Entity
> >> |Ston|Appl|Corn|Ore|Lmbr|Cotn|Coin|Papr|Fabr|Incs|
> >>
> >> +-++++---+++
> ++++
> >> |ATMunn   |   6|  32|   1|  0|   7|   0|  64|  14|   0|
> >> 14|
> >> |Aris |   5|  30|   9|  0|   5|   0|  97|   7|   0|
> >> 11|
> >> |Corona   |  34|  72|  25|  0|  10|  27|  90|  29|   0|
> >> 20|
> >> |CuddleBeam   |  11|  18|   9|  4|   8|   9|  50|  10|   0|
> >> 11|
> >> |G.   |  25|  99|  15|  0|  18|   0| 221|  52|   0|
> >> 33|
> >> |Gaelan   |  14|  28|   2|  6|   2|   0|  47|  10|   0|
> >> 11|
> >> |Kenyon   |  14|  37|   4|  6|  20|   3|  45|   9|   0|
> >> 11|
> >> |Murphy   |   5|  30|   4|  0|   8|   0|  70|  11|   0|
> >> 11|
> >> |PSS  |   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  10|   2|   0|
> >> 3|
> >> |Quazie   |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> >> 0|
> >> |Telnaior |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> >> 0|
> >> |Trigon   |   3|  25|  12|  2|   4|  12|  32|   7|   0|
> >> 11|
> >>
> >> |twg  |   5|  15|   0|  0|   5|   0|  20|   5|   0|
> >> 3|
> >> |VJ Rada  |  10|  55|   2|  0|  10|   0|  80|  19|   0|
> >> 11|
> >> |nichdel  |   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  10|   2|   0|
> >> 3|
> >> |o|   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> >> 0|
> >> |omd  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> >> 0|
> >> |Ouri |   0|  10|   0|  0|   0|   0|  24|   4|   0|
> >> 11|
> >> |pokes|   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> >> 0|
> >> |天火狐|   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  10|   2|   0|
>  3|
> >>
> >> +-++++---+++
> ++++
> >> |farm at 1,-1 |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> >> 0|
> >> |mine at -1,-1|   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> >> 0|
> >> |mine at 1,1  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> >> 0|
> >> |orchard at -1,1  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> >> 0|
> >> |Corona’s refinery at -1,1|   0|   0|   0| 33|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> >> 0|
> >> |Corona’s mine at -1,1|   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> >> 0|
> >> |Corona’s orchard at -1,1 |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> >> 0|
> >> |ATMunn’s farm at 1,3 |   0|   0|   9|  0|   0|   9|   0|   0|   0|
> >> 0|
> >> |FPW  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> >> 0|
> >> |Agora|   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0| 349|   0|   0|
> >> 0|
> >>
> >> +-++++---+++
> ++++
> >>
> >> The following abbreviations are used in the table above:
> >>
> >> Ston = stone
> >>
> >> Appl = apples
> >>
> >> Lmbr = lumber
> >>
> >> Cotn = cotton
> >>
> >> Coin = coins
> >>
> >> Papr = papers
> >>
> >> Fabr = fabric
> >>
> >> Incs = incense
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> PSS = Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> >>
> >> FPW = Finger Pointing Workaround

DIS: Re: BUS: [Registrar] Zombie auction resolution

2018-07-01 Thread Corona
That is a logical consequence of barring the players who are invested in
the auctions enough to already have purchased a zombie in past auctions.

You know, I think next time I will just get rid of my zombie before the
auction just so that I can purchase a new one and acquire its riches.

~Corona

On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 12:14 PM, Rebecca  wrote:

> The bids on zombie auctions are freakin' silly: I just bid 2 coins to
> get 22 coins for free. Meanwhile people are bidding tens of coins on
> land units with far less worth.
>
> On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 8:11 PM, Rebecca  wrote:
> > I pay Agora 2 coins for the purpose of flipping Ouri's master switch
> > to myself and transfer each of Ouri's assets to me.
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 3:25 AM, Kerim Aydin 
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> The zombie auction has ended.
> >>
> >> PSS has won Kenyon for 16 Coins.
> >> V.J. Rada has won Ouri for 2 Coins.
> >> twg has won o for 1 Coin.
> >> Trigon has won Quazie for 1 Coin.
> >>
> >> Winners, please pay Agora your winning bid to flip the zombie's
> >> master switch to you.
> >>
> >> Bids (earliest first)
> >> V.J. Rada9x
> >> twg 14x
> >> V.J. Rada   15x
> >> twg  1
> >> Trigon   1
> >> V.J. Rada2
> >> PSS 16
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > From V.J. Rada
>
>
>
> --
> From V.J. Rada
>


DIS: Re: BUS: Resolving Referee election

2018-07-01 Thread Corona
nvm, zombies can't support

~Corona

On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 11:42 AM, Corona  wrote:

> I support that intent, and I act on behalf of 天火狐 to support that intent.
>
> ~Corona
>
> On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 11:41 AM, Rebecca  wrote:
>
>> I object to that intent.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 7:35 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:
>> > It seems like a horrible idea, democracy-wise, for the tie to be broken
>> by _one of the candidates in the tiebreak_. Unfortunately, it appears that
>> an intention to deputise is not something that can be objected to. Hmm.
>> >
>> > Let's try this: I intend, with 2 Agoran Consent, to impeach the
>> Referee, whoever e may be at the time, from eir position as Referee.
>> >
>> > -twg
>> >
>> >
>> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>> >
>> > On July 1, 2018 5:43 AM, Corona  wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I intend to deputise for the ADoP to resolve this Claim of Error, too.
>> >>
>> >> ~Corona
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 5:05 AM, Aris Merchant <
>> >>
>> >> thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > I do so as well.
>> >> >
>> >> > -Aris
>> >> >
>> >> > On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 8:05 PM Rebecca edwardostra...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > I intend to deputise for the ADoP to resolve this Claim of Error.
>> >> > >
>> >> > > --
>> >> > >
>> >> > > From V.J. Rada
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From V.J. Rada
>>
>
>


Re: DIS: Proto: MALF

2018-06-29 Thread Corona
What's not working?

1) land transfiguration (kind of the reason land types exist in the first
place) is useless
2) I think I can make a terribly overpowered lv. 5 refinery (13 coins/1
ore) next week, meaning I'll have so many coins that nobody else will be
able to win any more land, ever.

~Corona

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 5:37 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> So I've been planning land purchases, upgrades, and production flow for
> the next month, it's been fun to do.  It's a nice little resource
> management/placement game right now.
>
> But each/every proposal like this throws such planning out the window.
> If something like this goes through atm, I'm probably going to check out
> of the land game and not bother to plan or play again.
>
> At what point do we not change things for a bit and just play?  What
> isn't working with the present system?  Sometimes you should play the
> basic game a few times before adding expansion sets...
>
> On Fri, 29 Jun 2018, Reuben Staley wrote:
> > Well, since ranks would no longer exist, why would we need anything but a
> > flat rate?
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 29, 2018, 09:28 Corona  wrote:
> >
> > > It did, it's just that nobody discussed it, I guess. Why did you
> change the
> > > upkeep of the processing facilities to 5 coins flat in the second
> email?
> > >
> > > ~Corona
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Reuben Staley <
> reuben.sta...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I think this email didn't get sent to you guys, so I'm just going to
> > > > forward it.
> > > >
> > > > -- Forwarded message -
> > > > From: Reuben Staley 
> > > > Date: Thu, Jun 21, 2018, 16:50
> > > > Subject: DIS: Proto: MALF
> > > > To: Agora Discussion 
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Name: More Advanced Land Features
> > > > AI: TBD
> > > > Author: Trigon
> > > > Co-authors:
> > > >
> > > > [ PART I: CLEAN-UP ]
> > > >
> > > > [ PART I, SECTION I: GLATF ]
> > > >
> > > > [ There are no technical problems with the rules introduced by Gray
> Land
> > > >and the Fountain, but these could be added to already existing
> rules
> > > >to reduce clutter. Currently, there are six rules that contain
> only
> > > >one or two paragraphs. I think this is inefficient, so I'm
> repealing
> > > >all these rules and sticking them onto more relevant ones. ]
> > > >
> > > > Repeal Rule 2568 "Facility Colors".
> > > >
> > > > Amend Rule 2567 "Facility Categories" by replacing its text with:
> > > >Each facility can be either a Production, Processing,
> Monument, or
> > > >Miscellaneous Facility. This is to be set by the rule that
> defines
> > > >that facility type.
> > > >
> > > >A facility has a number of Allowed Land Types not equal to 0.
> This
> > > >is to be set by the rule that defines the facility type. If
> it is
> > > >not set by that rule, the facility type's Allowed Land Types
> are
> > > >Black and White.
> > > >
> > > >Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, a facility cannot have
> a
> > > >Parent Land Unit whose Land Type is not an element of its
> Allowed
> > > >Land Types. If an action or set of actions would cause a
> facility
> > > >to be created with a Parent Land Unit whose Land Type is not
> an
> > > >element of its Allowed Land Types, that action or set of
> actions
> > > >FAILS. If a facility's Parent Land Unit's Land Type is
> flipped to
> > > >a Land Type that is not in that facility's Allowed Land Types,
> > > >that facility is destroyed.
> > > >
> > > >An "x facility", where x is a valid Land Type, refers to a
> > > >facility that has x in its Allowed Land Types.
> > > >
> > > > Repeal Rule 2569 "Gray Land".
> > > >
> > > > Amend Rule 2565 "Land Types" by appending:
> > > >Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, Gray Land Units are
> always
> > > >preserved.
> > > >
> > > > Repeal Rule 2571 "The Fountain" and Rule 2572 "Wishing Fountain".
> > > >
> > &

Re: DIS: Proto: MALF

2018-06-29 Thread Corona
Sorry, didn't read it thoroughly, nevermind that.

 "A facility has a number of Allowed Land Types not equal to 0." - makes it
sound like it's an integer. what about a nonempty set of land types

~Corona

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 5:31 PM, Reuben Staley 
wrote:

> Well, since ranks would no longer exist, why would we need anything but a
> flat rate?
>
> On Fri, Jun 29, 2018, 09:28 Corona  wrote:
>
> > It did, it's just that nobody discussed it, I guess. Why did you change
> the
> > upkeep of the processing facilities to 5 coins flat in the second email?
> >
> > ~Corona
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Reuben Staley 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I think this email didn't get sent to you guys, so I'm just going to
> > > forward it.
> > >
> > > -- Forwarded message -
> > > From: Reuben Staley 
> > > Date: Thu, Jun 21, 2018, 16:50
> > > Subject: DIS: Proto: MALF
> > > To: Agora Discussion 
> > >
> > >
> > > Name: More Advanced Land Features
> > > AI: TBD
> > > Author: Trigon
> > > Co-authors:
> > >
> > > [ PART I: CLEAN-UP ]
> > >
> > > [ PART I, SECTION I: GLATF ]
> > >
> > > [ There are no technical problems with the rules introduced by Gray
> Land
> > >and the Fountain, but these could be added to already existing rules
> > >to reduce clutter. Currently, there are six rules that contain only
> > >one or two paragraphs. I think this is inefficient, so I'm repealing
> > >all these rules and sticking them onto more relevant ones. ]
> > >
> > > Repeal Rule 2568 "Facility Colors".
> > >
> > > Amend Rule 2567 "Facility Categories" by replacing its text with:
> > >Each facility can be either a Production, Processing, Monument,
> or
> > >Miscellaneous Facility. This is to be set by the rule that
> defines
> > >that facility type.
> > >
> > >A facility has a number of Allowed Land Types not equal to 0.
> This
> > >is to be set by the rule that defines the facility type. If it
> is
> > >not set by that rule, the facility type's Allowed Land Types are
> > >Black and White.
> > >
> > >Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, a facility cannot have a
> > >Parent Land Unit whose Land Type is not an element of its
> Allowed
> > >Land Types. If an action or set of actions would cause a
> facility
> > >to be created with a Parent Land Unit whose Land Type is not an
> > >element of its Allowed Land Types, that action or set of actions
> > >FAILS. If a facility's Parent Land Unit's Land Type is flipped
> to
> > >a Land Type that is not in that facility's Allowed Land Types,
> > >that facility is destroyed.
> > >
> > >An "x facility", where x is a valid Land Type, refers to a
> > >facility that has x in its Allowed Land Types.
> > >
> > > Repeal Rule 2569 "Gray Land".
> > >
> > > Amend Rule 2565 "Land Types" by appending:
> > >Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, Gray Land Units are
> always
> > >preserved.
> > >
> > > Repeal Rule 2571 "The Fountain" and Rule 2572 "Wishing Fountain".
> > >
> > > Amend Rule 2570 "Monument Facilities" by appending:
> > >The following facilities are considered Monument Facilities:
> > >
> > >   1. The Fountain
> > >  -  Allowed Land Types: Gray
> > >  -  Special Effects: If a player's location is the same as
> > > the fountain, e CAN transfer a coin to the fountain to
> > > Throw A Coin into the fountain. This does nothing,
> unless
> > > specified in another Rule. A player MAY announce what e
> > > wishes for when e Throws A Coin.
> > >
> > > [ PART I, SECTION II: CURRENCY FIXES ]
> > >
> > > [ This should've been done a long time ago. Also this supports some
> > >other things I'm about to propose. ]
> > >
> > > Amend Rule 2483 "Economics" by replacing its text with:
> > >The following currencies, collectively called Economic Assets,
> > >are defined and tracked by the Treasuror. They can be owned by
> > >Agora

Re: DIS: Proto: MALF

2018-06-29 Thread Corona
It did, it's just that nobody discussed it, I guess. Why did you change the
upkeep of the processing facilities to 5 coins flat in the second email?

~Corona

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Reuben Staley 
wrote:

> I think this email didn't get sent to you guys, so I'm just going to
> forward it.
>
> -- Forwarded message -
> From: Reuben Staley 
> Date: Thu, Jun 21, 2018, 16:50
> Subject: DIS: Proto: MALF
> To: Agora Discussion 
>
>
> Name: More Advanced Land Features
> AI: TBD
> Author: Trigon
> Co-authors:
>
> [ PART I: CLEAN-UP ]
>
> [ PART I, SECTION I: GLATF ]
>
> [ There are no technical problems with the rules introduced by Gray Land
>and the Fountain, but these could be added to already existing rules
>to reduce clutter. Currently, there are six rules that contain only
>one or two paragraphs. I think this is inefficient, so I'm repealing
>all these rules and sticking them onto more relevant ones. ]
>
> Repeal Rule 2568 "Facility Colors".
>
> Amend Rule 2567 "Facility Categories" by replacing its text with:
>Each facility can be either a Production, Processing, Monument, or
>Miscellaneous Facility. This is to be set by the rule that defines
>that facility type.
>
>A facility has a number of Allowed Land Types not equal to 0. This
>is to be set by the rule that defines the facility type. If it is
>not set by that rule, the facility type's Allowed Land Types are
>Black and White.
>
>Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, a facility cannot have a
>Parent Land Unit whose Land Type is not an element of its Allowed
>Land Types. If an action or set of actions would cause a facility
>to be created with a Parent Land Unit whose Land Type is not an
>element of its Allowed Land Types, that action or set of actions
>FAILS. If a facility's Parent Land Unit's Land Type is flipped to
>a Land Type that is not in that facility's Allowed Land Types,
>that facility is destroyed.
>
>An "x facility", where x is a valid Land Type, refers to a
>facility that has x in its Allowed Land Types.
>
> Repeal Rule 2569 "Gray Land".
>
> Amend Rule 2565 "Land Types" by appending:
>Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, Gray Land Units are always
>preserved.
>
> Repeal Rule 2571 "The Fountain" and Rule 2572 "Wishing Fountain".
>
> Amend Rule 2570 "Monument Facilities" by appending:
>The following facilities are considered Monument Facilities:
>
>   1. The Fountain
>  -  Allowed Land Types: Gray
>  -  Special Effects: If a player's location is the same as
> the fountain, e CAN transfer a coin to the fountain to
> Throw A Coin into the fountain. This does nothing, unless
> specified in another Rule. A player MAY announce what e
> wishes for when e Throws A Coin.
>
> [ PART I, SECTION II: CURRENCY FIXES ]
>
> [ This should've been done a long time ago. Also this supports some
>other things I'm about to propose. ]
>
> Amend Rule 2483 "Economics" by replacing its text with:
>The following currencies, collectively called Economic Assets,
>are defined and tracked by the Treasuror. They can be owned by
>Agora, players, contracts, and facilities.
>
>1.  stones  (u)
>2.  apples  (u)
>3.  carrots (u)
>4.  incense (u)
>5.  coal(u)
>6.  ore (a)
>7.  lumber  (a)
>8.  cotton  (a)
>9.  coins   (r)
>10. papers  (r)
>11. fabric  (r)
>
>Those marked with a (u) are Unrefinable Economic Assets.
>Those marked with a (a) are Refinable Economic Assets.
>Those marked with a (r) are Refined Economic Assets.
>
>Coins are the official currency of Agora.
>
> [ PART II: REVAMPING MOVEMENT ]
>
> [ This section brings back a system formerly called Action Units. I
>didn't include this mechanic in the original PAoaM proposal since it
>looked very similar to Action Points, a very unpopular system at the
>time. But I think it allows for better movement options, so I'm
>reinstituting it. This also touches on some of Corona's ideas for
>prioritizing small groups of land units. ]
>
> Amend rule 2003 "Actions in Arcadia" by replacing its text with:
>Energy Points (abbreviated EP) is an untracked natural player
>switch. Players can destroy one apple to increase eir Energy
>  

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Cartographor] Land auctions for June week 4

2018-06-29 Thread Corona
lol too late, the auction has ended and I won everything

~Corona

On Fri, Jun 29, 2018 at 4:42 PM, ATMunn  wrote:

> I bid 23 coins on 3.
>
> I have no idea where it is, by the way, I just want more land. lol.
>
>
> On 6/28/2018 4:56 PM, Corona wrote:
>
>> NTTPF
>>
>> I bid 21 coins in auctions 4 and 5.
>>
>> ~Corona
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 10:58 PM, Reuben Staley 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I bid 23 coins on 2.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018, 14:56 Corona  wrote:
>>>
>>> Although the quoted message is in the archives, it seems I have not
>>>> received it, and nobody responded, so just to make sure (esp. given the
>>>> most recent judgement):
>>>>
>>>> I bid 21 coins in auctions 1, 2 and 3.
>>>> I bid 1 coin in auctions 4 and 5.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ~Corona
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 9:41 PM, Corona 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I bid 21 coins in auctions 1, 2 and 3.
>>>>> I bid 1 coin in auctions 4 and 5.
>>>>>
>>>>> ~Corona
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 1:16 AM, ATMunn 
>>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I bid 20 coins on each auction.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 6/22/2018 5:10 PM, Reuben Staley wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I bid 17 coins on auction 1.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/22/2018 2:59 PM, Corona wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I bid 16 coins on auctions 1 and 2.
>>>>>>>> I bid 18 coins on auctions 3-5.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ~Corona
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 10:41 PM, ATMunn 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I bid 17 coins on auctions 3-5.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 6/22/2018 4:14 PM, Reuben Staley wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I bid 15 coins on auctions 1 and 2.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 6/22/2018 12:34 PM, Corona wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I bid 14 coins in each auction.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ~Corona
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 4:26 PM, ATMunn >>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I bid 6 coins in each auction.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 6/22/2018 12:13 AM, Ned Strange wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I bid 5 coins in each auction
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 12:26 PM, Reuben Staley <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reuben.sta...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are currently more public, unpreserved, non-aether land
>>>>>>>>>>>>> units in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence than I care to count. 5 land units of my choice are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> put
>>>>
>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> auction.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the following 5 auctions, I am the announcer, Agora is the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> auctioneer,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the minimum bid is 1 coin, and the lots are as such:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AUCTION 1: the land unit at (-2, -1)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AUCTION 2: the land unit at ( 0, -3)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AUCTION 3: the land unit at (-4,  0)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AUCTION 4: the land unit at (-5,  0)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AUCTION 5: the land unit at (-6,  0)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trigon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.avg.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>


DIS: Re: BUS: deputy-[Herald] Tournament Proposal

2018-06-25 Thread Corona
Oh no, I forgot it had to make it 4 days before the birthday due to the
notice/intent. I apologize.

~Corona

On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 4:27 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> I deputize for the Herald to propose the following set of Regulations
> governing the Birthday Tournament for this year:
>
>   1. If the Herald has created a contract titled 25th Birthday
> Extravaganza,
>   and if the provisions of that contract determine that a person or persons
>   have Won the Extravaganza, then those persons win the Tournament.
>
>   2. That's it.
>
>
> Commentary:
> We've passed the window for a Tournament starting w/o 3 objections before
> the Birthday.  I'm a wee bit annoyed, because the previous Herald had
> plenty of warning to delegate if e couldn't do it emself.  Oh well. I'll be
> traveling on the birthday itself so it would be hard for me to run anything
> that takes much attention on that day, but at this point looking for
> something really simple if someone has ideas (I'll throw out a few too...)
>
> This Tournament -> Contract method is so I can get the w/o 3 objections
> ball
> rolling in the next few hours, if people have too much heartburn about that
> I'll not do it.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


DIS: Re: BUS: [Treasuror] Facilities starting to proliferate again

2018-06-25 Thread Corona
I haven't checked for mistakes yet, but looks good!

Also note that I divided the players into two sections (separated by the
row of column names) -- nonzombies and zombies. I thought that would make
the table of players less cluttered. If you're going to keep that layout,
you might want to regularly check if any player's zombification status has
changed.

On Monday, June 25, 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:

> ​​I modified the layout slightly to make it easier for me to tell each
> facility's rank when creating assets. Unfortunately this comes with a
> slight readability cost, but the abbreviations for nicknames are the same
> as on the Cartographor report so I don't think it's too hard to interpret.
> Is it fine for the rest of you?
>
> +-++++---+++++++
> |Entity   |Ston|Appl|Corn|Ore|Lmbr|Cotn|Coin|Papr|Fabr|Incs|
> +-++++---+++++++
> |ATMunn   |   6|  32|   1|  0|   7|   0|  64|  14|   0|  12|
> |Aris |   5|  30|   9|  0|   5|   0|  97|   7|   0|  11|
> |Corona   |  28|  76|  28|  0|   8|  30|  37|  29|   0|  13|
> |CuddleBeam   |  11|  18|   9|  4|   8|   9|  50|  10|   0|  11|
> |G.   |  15|  79|  15|  0|   3|   0|  83|  52|   0|  33|
> |Gaelan   |  14|  28|   2|  6|   2|   0|  47|  10|   0|  11|
> |Kenyon   |  14|  37|   4|  6|  20|   3|  45|   9|   0|  11|
> |Murphy   |   5|  30|   4|  0|   8|   0|  56|  11|   0|  11|
> |omd  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> |Ouri |   0|  10|   0|  0|   0|   0|  24|   4|   0|  11|
> |PSS  |   5|  15|   0|  0|   5|   0|  20|   5|   0|   3|
> |Trigon   |   6|  11|  15|  4|   2|  15|  30|   7|   0|  11|
> |twg  |   3|   8|   0|  2|   5|   0|  34|   5|   0|   3|
> |VJ Rada  |  10|  55|   2|  0|  10|   0|  58|  17|   0|  11|
> +-++++---+++++++
> |Entity   |Ston|Appl|Corn|Ore|Lmbr|Cotn|Coin|Papr|Fabr|Incs|
> +-++++---+++++++
> |nichdel  |   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  10|   2|   0|   3|
> |o|   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> |pokes|   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> |Quazie   |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> |Telnaior |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> |天火狐|   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  10|   2|   0|   3|
> +-++++---+++++++
> |Entity   |Ston|Appl|Corn|Ore|Lmbr|Cotn|Coin|Papr|Fabr|Incs|
> +-++++---+++++++
> |R1 farm  (+1, -1)|   0|   0|   6|  0|   0|   6|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> |R1 mine  (-1, -1)|   6|   0|   0|  4|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> |R1 mine  (+1, +1)|   6|   0|   0|  4|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> |R1 orch. (-1, +1)|   0|   6|   0|  0|   6|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> |C's R2 ref.  ( 0, +2)|   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0| 259|   0|   0|   0|
> |C's R2 mine  (+2, +2)|  18|   0|   0| 12|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> |C's R2 orch. (+2, +1)|   0|  12|   0|  0|  12|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> |C's R2 mine  (+2, -1)|  18|   0|   0|  8|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> |C's R2 orch. (+2, -2)|   0|  12|   0|  0|  12|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> |C's R2 farm  (+1, -2)|   0|   0|  12|  0|   0|  12|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> |u's R1 farm  (+1,  3)|   0|   0|  21|  0|   0|  21|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> |T's R1 mine  ( 0, -2)|   6|   0|   0|  4|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> |t's R1 orch. (+5,  0)|   0|   6|   0|  0|   6|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> |G's R1 mine  (+3, -2)|   3|   0|   0|  2|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> |G's R1 mine  (+4, -1)|   3|   0|   0|  2|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> |G's R1 orch. (+4,  0)|   0|   3|   0|  0|   3|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> |G's R1 mine  (+3,  0)|   3|   0|   0|  2|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> |G's R1 orch. (+2,  0)|   0|   3|   0|  0|   3|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> +-++++---+++++++
> |Entity   |Ston|Appl|Corn|Ore|Lmbr|Cotn|Coin|Papr|Fabr|Incs|
> +-++++---+++++++
> |FPW  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> |Agora|   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0| 456|   0|   0|   0|
> +-++++---+++++++
> |Entity   |Ston|Appl|Corn|Ore|Lmbr|Cotn|Coin|Papr|Fabr|Incs|
> +--

Re: DIS: hmmm?

2018-06-25 Thread Corona
I didn't receive the email sent by twg which you're replying to in this
message. Was this sent to you directly or was it sent to a list?

On Sunday, June 24, 2018, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Did you receive it directly from me or via discussion?
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 5:06 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:
> > Yes! What did you change?
> >
> > -twg
> >
> >
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> >
> > On June 24, 2018 8:58 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
> p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Did you receive this?
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 4:55 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> >>
> >> > I haven't, no. Very bizarre. I have been receiving email from other
> Gmail users like ATMunn and Corona, so I'm not sure what the problem might
> be.
> >> >
> >> > If it helps narrow anything down, the last email I received from you
> was on June 22, 2018 10:16 PM UTC, saying you liked Corona's suggestion of
> a hyperbolic map.
> >> >
> >> > -twg
> >> >
> >> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> >> >
> >> > On June 24, 2018 6:08 PM, ATMunn iamingodsa...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > twg
> >> > >
> >> > > On 6/24/2018 12:55 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > This could be one of the infamous problems with gmail. Have you
> >> > > >
> >> > > > received this message?
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 12:30 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red
> wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > I haven't received it, and I also haven't received any of PSS's
> messages to DIS that you're all replying to.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > -twg
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > On June 24, 2018 4:20 PM, Corona liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com
> wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > Neither have I.
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > ~Corona
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 4:46 PM, Publius Scribonius
> Scholasticus <
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > I have not received it.
> >> > > > > > > ---
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 10:28 AM, ATMunn
> iamingodsa...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Nope, it was much later than that.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > On 6/24/2018 10:11 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > This?
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > -- Forwarded message --
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > From: ATMunn iamingodsa...@gmail.com
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > Date: Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 11:09 AM
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: BUS: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals
> 8054-8057
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > To: agora-busin...@agoranomic.org
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > I do the same as the last three people in this thread.
> >> > > > > > >

DIS: Re: BUS: Resending the message because apparently nobody got it

2018-06-24 Thread Corona
​​Gratituous arguments: You need to "publish a notice" to vote. R478/Fora
says:

'A public message is a message sent via a public forum, or sent to all
players and containing a clear designation of intent to be public. [...] A
person "publishes" or "announces" something by sending a public message.'

The message does not need to be sent to all players, it merely needs to be
sent via a public forum, and presumably it doesn't need to be received by
all players (excerpt from the same rule):

'Each player should ensure e can receive messages via each public forum.'

Clearly, the _receiving_ player is responsible for making sure e can
receive messages, not the sender or the Registrar.

~Corona

On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 8:09 PM, ATMunn  wrote:

> I CFJ on the following statement:
>
>Before the sending of this message, ATMunn voted FOR proposal 8053.
>
> No caller's arguments because I have no clue what I'd argue for and how.
>
> And just in case this ends up being FALSE, I vote FOR proposals 8053-8057.
>
> On 6/23/2018 6:01 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
> > Actually, I wonder if the problems mightn't run even deeper than that. I
> don't think "I do the same thing as the last X people in
> > this thread" necessarily implies "I do the same thing as the last X
> > people in this thread _did in this thread_". Aris, V.J. Rada and I
> > have all previously performed actions other than voting on these
> > proposals, and "the same thing" (singular) is too ambiguous to
> > distinguish any of those actions from the votes. So I would argue
> > neither ATMunn nor Trigon, let alone Corona, have voted on these five
> > proposals.
> >
> > ​​-twg
> >
> >
> > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> >
> > On June 23, 2018 9:33 PM, Alex Smith  wrote:
> >
> >> ​​
> >>
> >> On Sat, 2018-06-23 at 23:25 +0200, Corona wrote:
> >>
> >>> I'm not using infinite regression. I'm basing my vote on the next
> >>>
> >>> (hypothetical) player to vote, who would vote "I do the same as the
> last
> >>>
> >>> six people in this thread", the six people being Aris, VJ Rada, twg,
> >>>
> >>> ATMunn, Trigon (who all voted FOR all proposals) and me.
> >>>
> >>> Thus the only way for their conditional vote to resolve as FOR all
> >>>
> >>> proposals is for my conditional vote to resolve as FOR all proposals
> (if I
> >>>
> >>> voted differently, their conditional vote would be indeterminate and
> >>>
> >>> default to PRESENT).
> >>
> >> Either you've done the same thing as the other people or you've done
> >>
> >> something different.
> >>
> >> If we're assuming that you've done something different, "I do the same
> >>
> >> as the last six people in the thread" won't do anything because it's
> >>
> >> too ambiguous.
> >>
> >> If we're assuming that you've done something that's the same, then
> >>
> >> you've made a conditional vote. So the next person, who's doing
> >>
> >> something the same as everyone else (including you) is therefore making
> >>
> >> a conditional vote, based on the hypothetical person after them.
> >>
> >> If you're arguing "but it's only me who made a conditional vote, the
> >>
> >> other people didn't!" then you're arguing that you've done something
> >>
> >> that's relevantly different from the other people in the thread, and as
> >>
> >> such your hypothetical can't possibly succeed.
> >>
> >>
> >> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> ais523
> >
>


Re: DIS: hmmm?

2018-06-24 Thread Corona
Neither have I.

~Corona

On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 4:46 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> I have not received it.
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 10:28 AM, ATMunn  wrote:
> > Nope, it was much later than that.
> >
> >
> > On 6/24/2018 10:11 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
> >>
> >> This?
> >>
> >> 
> >> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -- Forwarded message --
> >> From: ATMunn 
> >> Date: Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 11:09 AM
> >> Subject: Re: BUS: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8054-8057
> >> To: agora-busin...@agoranomic.org
> >>
> >>
> >> I do the same as the last three people in this thread.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 6/23/2018 6:14 AM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I also vote FOR proposals 8053-8057.
> >>>
> >>> -twg
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> >>>
> >>> On June 23, 2018 8:41 AM, Ned Strange 
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I vote FOR each listed proposal
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 4:04 PM, Aris Merchant
> >>>>
> >>>> thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> I vote as follows:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> ID Author(s) AI Title Pender
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 8053* G., Aris 1.0 patch patch patch G. [1]
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> FOR
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 8054+ Aris, [2] 3.0 Minimalist Contracts v2 Aris
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> FOR
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 8055+ Aris, G. 3.0 Distributed Assets v3 Aris
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> FOR
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 8056+ Aris, G. 3.0 Deregulation Act v2 Aris
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> FOR
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 8057* Corona 1.0 No quorum, no medal Corona [1]
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> FOR
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Aris
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>>   From V.J. Rada
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
>


DIS: Re: BUS: Testo Testerino

2018-06-23 Thread Corona
This was delivered to me from all three lists. Does Official work again?

~Corona

On Sun, Jun 24, 2018 at 5:20 AM, Ned Strange 
wrote:

> Test
>
> --
> From V.J. Rada
>


DIS: Re: BUS: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8054-8057

2018-06-23 Thread Corona
​I'm not using infinite regression. I'm basing my vote on the next
(hypothetical) player to vote, who would vote "I do the same as the last
six people in this thread", the six people being Aris, VJ Rada, twg,
ATMunn, Trigon (who all voted FOR all proposals) and me.

Thus the only way for their conditional vote to resolve as FOR all
proposals is for my conditional vote to resolve as FOR all proposals (if I
voted differently, their conditional vote would be indeterminate and
default to PRESENT).

~Corona

On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 8:18 PM, Alex Smith 
wrote:

> On Sat, 2018-06-23 at 18:36 +0200, Corona wrote:
> >  I CFJ: My conditional vote in the appended message evaluates to FOR each
> > proposal.
> >
> > Caller's arguments: while this contains a conditional referring a
> > hypothetical future situation, that situation is not indeterminate, as I
> > specified "in the next instant, before any other process regulated by the
> > ruleset of Agora takes place", meaning it can be unambiguously logically
> > derived from the present situation (that is, the present situation - my
> > first message and the withdrawal + my second message = the hypothetical
> > future situation).
>
> Gratuitous arguments: Agora does not have infinitely many players, nor
> is it reasonable to believe that it could have infinitely many players
> without a change to the rules.
>
> If other people are doing the same thing as you, then they're making
> the same conditional, and at some point the conditional will talk about
> an event that can't possibly occur (someone else voting) and thus fail
> to evaluate. I think that makes the whole thing collapse.
>
> --
> ais523
>


DIS: Re: BUS: [Cartographor] Land auctions for June week 4

2018-06-23 Thread Corona
Getting into fractional reserve territory here, right?

~Corona

On Sat, Jun 23, 2018 at 1:16 AM, ATMunn  wrote:

> I bid 20 coins on each auction.
>
>
> On 6/22/2018 5:10 PM, Reuben Staley wrote:
>
>> I bid 17 coins on auction 1.
>>
>> On 6/22/2018 2:59 PM, Corona wrote:
>>
>>> I bid 16 coins on auctions 1 and 2.
>>> I bid 18 coins on auctions 3-5.
>>>
>>> ~Corona
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 10:41 PM, ATMunn 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I bid 17 coins on auctions 3-5.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/22/2018 4:14 PM, Reuben Staley wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I bid 15 coins on auctions 1 and 2.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/22/2018 12:34 PM, Corona wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I bid 14 coins in each auction.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ~Corona
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 4:26 PM, ATMunn 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I bid 6 coins in each auction.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/22/2018 12:13 AM, Ned Strange wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I bid 5 coins in each auction
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 22, 2018 at 12:26 PM, Reuben Staley <
>>>>>>>> reuben.sta...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are currently more public, unpreserved, non-aether land units
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> existence than I care to count. 5 land units of my choice are put
>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> auction.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For the following 5 auctions, I am the announcer, Agora is the
>>>>>>>>> auctioneer,
>>>>>>>>> and the minimum bid is 1 coin, and the lots are as such:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> AUCTION 1: the land unit at (-2, -1)
>>>>>>>>> AUCTION 2: the land unit at ( 0, -3)
>>>>>>>>> AUCTION 3: the land unit at (-4,  0)
>>>>>>>>> AUCTION 4: the land unit at (-5,  0)
>>>>>>>>> AUCTION 5: the land unit at (-6,  0)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Trigon
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>>>>>> https://www.avg.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>


Re: DIS: New proposal coming soon-ish

2018-06-22 Thread Corona
I want a hyperbolic world!

~Corona

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:58 PM, ATMunn  wrote:

> I've noticed that I haven't made a proposal in a long time, so I decided
> to start working on one, and it's going to be a big one this time. Draft
> being worked on right now.
>
> The idea is to have a new "dimension" or "realm" as I'm calling it where
> players can go and get resources from. It would be similar to Arcadia,
> except without the Black and White land and stuff, and nobody would be
> able to own any land. You'd go in there, grab stuff, get out, and then
> the dimension would reset the next month or something like that.
>
> I also think that having the realm not totally cleared out might pose
> some sort of threat to Agora, not something game-ruining, but enough to
> encourage players to work together to clear it.
>
> The proposal would also come with general rules for Realms, so Arcadia
> would become a realm along with this new thing, and if people want to
> add new realms in the future, it will be a lot easier.
>
> Let me know what you think. Let me know if this is a terrible idea or if
> it might be cool.
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: How silly is silliness?

2018-06-20 Thread Corona
​That's right. Sorry OscarMeyr, I was very tired when I wrote it.​

~Corona

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:12 AM, Ned Strange 
wrote:

> that cfj decided that the sillyness of an action is an inextricable
> conditional.
>
> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:16 AM, Benjamin Schultz
>  wrote:
> > Testing the lmits of Sillyness by contract, I act on behalf of VJ Rada to
> > issue a trust token to me.  Because the open-ended nature of the contract
> > is just plain silly.
> >
> > OscarMeyr, who hasn't had enough coffee to parse CFJ 3641
>
>
>
> --
> From V.J. Rada
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Election update

2018-06-18 Thread Corona
False, what made you think that? Players are dissatisfied if reports are
missed; oh yes, persons missing reports will be punished with atom-clock
precision and a camel's perseverance. (and an impeachment will be attempted
if the person fails to respond for long enough)

~Corona

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 5:09 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> So to clarify, I shouldn't expect a consistent punishment if I miss a
> report?
>
> On Mon, 18 Jun 2018, Corona wrote:
> > Well, if it's YOU who's asking, then why, I'll blot in exactly the same
> way
> > as you! ;)
> >
> > Nah, I'll just consider the individual circumstances of each case and
> Eris'
> > mood when blotting, I don't really have any blanket policies. I will blot
> > in such a way that maximizes the sum of satisfaction of the players, both
> > at the moment and in the future.
> >
> > ~Corona
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 4:19 PM, Kerim Aydin 
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Are any referee candidates willing to share their planned blotting
> > > policies?
> > >
> > > On Sun, 17 Jun 2018, Edward Murphy wrote:
> > > > I initiate an Agoran decision to select the winner of the Referee
> > > > election. The vote collector is the ADoP (me), the valid options are
> > > > Aris and Corona and V.J. Rada and anyone else who becomes a candidate
> > > > before voting ends, and the voting method is instant runoff. And I
> > > > think quorum is 4 (due to 6 players voting on Proposal 8052).
> > > >
> > > > Rulekeepor election ends with no candidates.
> > > >
> > > > I initiate an Agoran decision to select the winner of the Treasuror
> > > > election. The vote collector is the ADoP, the valid options are
> > > > ATMunn and Corona and twg and anyone else who becomes a candidate
> > > > before voting ends, and the voting method is instant runoff. And I
> > > > think quorum is 4.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Election update

2018-06-18 Thread Corona
Well, if it's YOU who's asking, then why, I'll blot in exactly the same way
as you! ;)

Nah, I'll just consider the individual circumstances of each case and Eris'
mood when blotting, I don't really have any blanket policies. I will blot
in such a way that maximizes the sum of satisfaction of the players, both
at the moment and in the future.

~Corona

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 4:19 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> Are any referee candidates willing to share their planned blotting
> policies?
>
> On Sun, 17 Jun 2018, Edward Murphy wrote:
> > I initiate an Agoran decision to select the winner of the Referee
> > election. The vote collector is the ADoP (me), the valid options are
> > Aris and Corona and V.J. Rada and anyone else who becomes a candidate
> > before voting ends, and the voting method is instant runoff. And I
> > think quorum is 4 (due to 6 players voting on Proposal 8052).
> >
> > Rulekeepor election ends with no candidates.
> >
> > I initiate an Agoran decision to select the winner of the Treasuror
> > election. The vote collector is the ADoP, the valid options are
> > ATMunn and Corona and twg and anyone else who becomes a candidate
> > before voting ends, and the voting method is instant runoff. And I
> > think quorum is 4.
> >
> >
>
>


Re: DIS: Re: OFF: Re: [Cartographor] The Map of Arcadia -- June 11, 2018

2018-06-17 Thread Corona
Great! But (2,2) is mine.

~Corona

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 1:47 AM, Reuben Staley 
wrote:

> I was wrong about not pushing the new version. I did indeed push the
> changes, but I didn't update the link in the report. This is the real link:
>
> https://agoranomic.org/Cartographor/int/2018-06-12.html
>
>
> On 6/15/2018 9:55 AM, Corona wrote:
>
>>
>>>
>>> This new segment will be my place to make minor comments and/or
>>> announcements. For example, I want to note that I added new features to
>>> the interactive map as Corona mentioned I should.
>>>
>>>
>> ​I don't see anything new on the interactive map?​
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> https://www.avg.com
>>
>>
> --
> Trigon
>


DIS: Re: BUS: [Referee] Weekly Report

2018-06-17 Thread Corona
'A player CAN, by announcement, destroy N incense in eir possession to
expunge N of eir blots.'

Since the blots didn't exist, I failed - I CAN destroy incense using this
rule only if I have blots to expunge, and it's clear that I intended to use
the expunging rule to destroy the incense, not the generic removing of
destructible assets at will in the Assets rule.

~Corona

On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 10:48 PM, Kerim Aydin 
wrote:

> 
> 
> The Police Blotter (Referee's Weekly Report)
> 
> 
>
> Date of last report: 03 Jun 2018
> Date of this report: 17 Jun 2018
> (all times UTC)
>
> Note:  Corona at one point did this:
> "I destroy 6 incense to expunge my 6 blots."
> At that point, my records show e only had 4 Blots, because my attempt to
> impose Summary Judgement on em had failed (no crime specified).  If that's
> correct, my interpretation is that e paid 6 incense to destroy 4 blots,
> because of the special way that expunging works (R2555):
>If expunging blots would
>reduce a person's blots to less than 0, their blots are instead
>reduced to 0 but the cost of expunging, if any, is not reduced.
> An alternate interpretation is that the whole exchange failed (I can't
> see any arguments that only 4 incense were destroyed).  Discussion or
> CFJ on the matter welcome if desired.
>
>
> BLOT HOLDINGS (asset record - self-ratifying)
>
> PersonBlots
>   -
> Murphy   4
> V.J. Rada2
> Trigon   3
> Kenyon  10
>
>
> BLOT HISTORY
>
> PersonChange  Date  Reason
>   --    ---
> V.J. Rada  -1 01 May 2018 03:46:51  Apology
> G. +1(f)  20 May 2018 23:49:32  Late Registrar Weekly
> Corona     +1(f)  27 May 2018 19:14:05  Late Treasuror Weekly
> Trigon +1(f)  27 May 2018 19:14:05  Late Cartographer Weekly
> Corona +1(f)  27 May 2018 19:14:05  Late Herald Weekly
> Kenyon +1(D)  27 May 2018 19:14:05  Late SLR
> Corona +2(D)  31 May 2018 17:04:45  Late Treasuror Weekly
> Trigon +2(D)  31 May 2018 17:04:45  Late Cartographer Weekly
> Kenyon +3(D)  31 May 2018 17:04:45  Late SLR
> Murphy +1(D)  31 May 2018 17:04:45  Late ADoP Weekly
> Murphy +1(D)  31 May 2018 17:04:45  Late Arbitor Weekly
> V.J. Rada  +1(f)  31 May 2018 17:04:45  Late Notary Weekly
> G. -1 03 Jun 2018 18:46:43  with incense
> (time of last report)
> Corona -4 12 Jun 2018 18:54:37  with incense (overpaid)
> ATMunn +2(f)  13 Jun 2018 15:56:29  Late Tailor Monthly
> Kenyon +2(f)  13 Jun 2018 15:56:29  Late Rulekeepor Monthly
> Corona +3(f)  13 Jun 2018 16:00:17  Late Treasuror Weekly
> Kenyon +4(f)  13 Jun 2018 16:00:17  Late Rulekeepor Weekly
> Corona -3 13 Jun 2018 16:22:32  with incense
> ATMunn -2 13 Jun 2018 16:32:51  with incense
>
> (f)=forgivable by R2557
> (D)=loses next monthly salary for noted office by R2559
>
>
> FROM THE POLICE SCANNER (details of justice since last report)
>
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > On Wed, 6 Jun 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > > On behalf of ATMunn (via contract) I point the finger at the
> > > following players for missing a weekly report last week:
> > >
> > > Corona, for Treasuror (last on May 5).
> >
> > I levy a fine of 3 blots (3rd straight blotting for this), forgivable
> > (report produced since this offense).
> >
> > > Kenyon, for Rulekeepor (last Apr 7).
> >
> > I levy a fine of 4 blots (4th straight blotting for this), forgivable
> > (salary no longer an issue).
>
>
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > On Fri, 1 Jun 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > > On behalf of ATMunn (via contract) I point the finger at the following
> > > players for missing a monthly report in May:
> > >
> > > ATMunn (For Tailor).
> >
> > I levy a fine of 2 Blots (Forgivable, as report has been made).
> >
> > > Kenyon (For Rulekeepor FLR).
> >
> > I levy a find of 2 Blots (Forgivable, because salary isn't an issue
> > for em anymore).
> >
> > > I think appropriate level for missing monthlies is 2 Blots (open for
> > > discussion).
> > >
> > > I won't levy for 4 days at least, if a report has been made in that
> > > time this will be forgivable, otherwise unforgivable.
> > >
> >
>
> ==
>
>
>


DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] Zombie-related switches (attn: Corona, G.)

2018-06-15 Thread Corona
>
> > Corona, note that PSS was awarded a Welcome Package by Proposal 8051.
>
​
Noted,
​

> > As required by the new Rule Zombie Life Cycle:
> >  - I announce my intent to flip Quazie's master switch to Agora,
> >with Notice.  (Corona owns 2+ zombies).  Corona, you can pick
> >whom you want to keep by flipping either one of your zombies'
> >master to Agora by announcement to render this undoable). I
> >picked Quazie because eir 90 days will be up soonest.
>


​ and noted.


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 8050-8052 (second fwd)

2018-06-15 Thread Corona
Me too

~Corona

On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 11:04 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:

> Received
>
> -twg
> ​​
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>
> On June 15, 2018 9:00 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
>
> > ​​
> >
> > If I have not previous resolved decisions to adopt Proposals 8050-8052,
> >
> > I resolve them as indicated in the original message below.
> >
> > [Please confirm receipt, someone!]
> >
> > -- Forwarded message --
> >
> > Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 13:34:55 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> > From: Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu
> >
> > To: Agora Official agora-offic...@agoranomic.org
> >
> > Subject: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 8050-8052 (fwd)
> >
> > If the below decisions were not resolved on the date indicated below,
> >
> > I resolve them as indicated:
> >
> > -- Forwarded message --
> >
> > Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2018 11:47:23 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> > From: Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu
> >
> > To: Agora Official agora-offic...@agoranomic.org
> >
> > Subject: [Assessor] Resolution of Proposals 8050-8052
> >
> > I resolve the Agoran Decisions to adopt Proposals 8050-8052 as follows.
> >
> > Quorum is 6 for all of these proposals.
> >
> > 8050 (Pledge Simply by G., AI-1.7)
> >
> > FOR: V.J. Rada, 2xG., Corona, twg, Aris
> >
> > AGAINST:
> >
> > PRESENT: Murphy
> >
> > F/A: 6/0
> >
> > RESULT: ADOPTED
> >
> > 8051 (Zombie Overhaul v1.0 by G., Aris, AI-3.0)
> >
> > FOR: V.J. Rada, 2xG., o, Telnaior, omd, pokes, twg, Aris
> >
> > AGAINST:
> >
> > PRESENT: Murphy, Corona
> >
> > F/A: 9/0
> >
> > RESULT: ADOPTED
> >
> > 8052 (Let's not make game assets one letter different from each other
> >
> > by V.J. Rada, AI-3.0)
> >
> > FOR: Murphy, Aris, twg, 2xG.
> >
> > AGAINST:
> >
> > PRESENT: o, Telnaior
> >
> > F/A: 5/0
> >
> > RESULT: ADOPTED
> >
> > TEXT OF ADOPTED PROPOSALS
> >
> > //
> >
> > ID: 8050
> >
> > Title: Pledge Simply
> >
> > Adoption index: 1.7
> >
> > Author: G.
> >
> > Co-authors:
> >
> > [The Asset-nature of pledges is complicated and serves no purpose;
> >
> > if pledges are to be used for out-of-Agora agreements, the Agoran
> >
> > Consent constraint makes no sense as it's not a voting matter].
> >
> > Amend Rule 2450 (Pledges) to read in full:
> >
> > If a Player makes a clear public pledge (syn. Oath) to perform
> >
> > (or refrain from performing) certain actions, then breaking the
> >
> > pledge within the pledge's time window is the Class N crime of
> >
> > Oathbreaking, where N is 2 unless the pledge explicitly states
> >
> > otherwise. The time window of a pledge is 60 days, unless
> >
> > the pledge explicitly states otherwise.
> >
> > If breaking the pledge harms specific other parties, the Referee
> >
> > SHOULD solicit the opinion of those parties in determining an
> >
> > appropriate fine.
> >
> > The Notary's Weekly Report includes a copy of all pledges that
> >
> > are within their time window, and the dates the pledges were
> >
> > made.
> >
> > All pledges that existed as assets the instant before this Proposal
> >
> > took effect are hereby made pledges under the current version of
> >
> > Rule 2450, with their creation dates equal to their date of creation
> >
> > as assets.
> >
> > //
> >
> > ID: 8051
> >
> > Title: Zombie Overhaul v1.0
> >
> > Adoption index: 3.0
> >
> > Author: G.
> >
> > Co-authors: Aris
> >
> > [TODO: Check proposals adopted since the last SLR for conflicts]
> >
> > Create the following Rule, Zombie Life Cycle, power=3:
> >
> > Any player CAN, with Notice, flip the master switch of an active
> >
> > player who has not made a public announcement in the past 60 days
> >
> > to Agora.
> >
> > Resale is a secured natural switch for zombies, tracked by the
> >
> > Registrar, with a default value of 2. Whenever a zombie's master
> >
> > switch is flipped to a player other than emself, eir resale value
> >
> > is decreased by 1.
> >
> >

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Pledge handoff to Notary

2018-06-15 Thread Corona
I'm in the same situation.

~Corona

On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 10:53 PM, Aris Merchant <
thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 1:48 PM Kerim Aydin 
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 15 Jun 2018, Aris Merchant wrote:
> > > Oops. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that one has been resolved. I retract my
> > prior
> > > CFJ, and CFJ "Proposal 8050 has been resolved."
> >
> > Except now - haha - I made a second, hopefully successful attempt to
> > resolve a
> > few moments *before* this second CFJ came in, so this would now be true
> if
> > that second attempt succeeded - sorry about that...
>
>
> I haven't received any OFF traffic since this [1] report. Is anyone else in
> the same situation? Frankly, this is rather terrifying.
>
> [1] https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-official@agoranomic.org/
> msg08914.html
>
> -Aris
>
> >
> >
>


DIS: Re: OFF: Re: [Cartographor] The Map of Arcadia -- June 11, 2018

2018-06-15 Thread Corona
>
>
> This new segment will be my place to make minor comments and/or
> announcements. For example, I want to note that I added new features to
> the interactive map as Corona mentioned I should.
>

​I don't see anything new on the interactive map?​


DIS: Re: BUS: Pledge handoff to Notary

2018-06-15 Thread Corona
T.T I couldn't have acted on that intent any earlier than next Tuesday, and
the dynasty will definitely be over by then.

~Corona

On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 3:24 PM, Cuddle Beam  wrote:

> I object to Corona’s attempt, because the dynasty isn’t over just yet (will
> be soon though).
>
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2018 at 06:35, Corona  wrote:
>
> > Without objection I intend to retract every pledge I own. (the BlogNomic
> > one is no longer useful, too)
> >
> > ~Corona
> >
> > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 1:02 AM, Ned Strange 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Without objection I intend to retract each pledge I own.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jun 15, 2018 at 8:20 AM, Kerim Aydin 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The below pledge list from the June 3 Referee Report self-ratified
> > prior
> > > > to Proposal 8050 taking effect.  The pledge dates (date tracking now
> > > > required by the Notary) don't self-ratify, but I did go back and
> > confirm.
> > > > Searching for 'pledge' in public archives back to March revealed no
> > other
> > > > recent pledges.  Pledges older than 60 days no longer require
> tracking.
> > > >
> > > > =the Referee, whose next report will be shorter=
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > PLEDGES (self-ratifying list of assets)
> > > >
> > > > == Trigon - Created 01 Jun 2018 07:35:31
> > > > I pledge to use as much integrity as is possible whenever I generate
> > > > random numbers.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > == Corona - Created 27 May 2018 17:29:28
> > > > I pledge to do all of the following in Blognomic's current dynasty:
> > > >
> > > > -always ahoy
> > > > Gams
> > > >
> > > > -call hunts most of the time
> > > > -not change derrick’s or Cuddlebeam’s position if they perform their
> > > duties
> > > > adequately (scrubbing, joining hunts if healthy…)
> > > > -scrub the decks whenever I
> > > > am online and can do so
> > > >
> > > > -generally work toward the preservation of the ship and the lives of
> > > > sailors, and maximizing profits
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > == G. - Created 10 May 2018 15:39:57
> > > > I pledge that I will not make any bids on behalf of zombies in the
> May
> > > > 2018 zombie auction.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ===(below pledges were created prior to 01 Apr 2018)===
> > > >
> > > > Quazie -
> > > > I pledge to give 1 Shiny to the first person who can,
> > > > correctly, with e-mail citations, explain what I did wrong on
> > > > Jan 20th 2009 that has since led to me being a fugitive. For
> > > > the explanation to be valid for this pledge, it should be fully
> > > > self contained, I should not have to go look up past rules in
> > > > order to understand the explanation (So please, include all
> > > > source info in the explanation).
> > > >
> > > > V.J Rada -
> > > > I pledge not to make any thread titles completely unrelated to
> > > > the email's content, nor use any agency or other mechanism to
> > > > attempt to gain control of any player at the exclusion of all
> > > > other players.
> > > >
> > > > Gaelan (14 Sep 2017) -
> > > > I pledge to, for at least the next month, vote AGAINST any
> > > > proposal that amends rules by providing new text in full unless
> > > > the text of the rule is nearly entirely changed.
> > > >
> > > > nichdel -
> > > > I pledge to vote AGAINST on all proposals created or pended by
> > > > Cuddle Beam.
> > > >
> > > > nichdel -
> > > > I pledge to Object to all intentions by Cuddle Beam that I can
> > > > object to.
> > > >
> > > > nichdel -
> > > > I pledge to give a trust token and 5 shinies (as soon as
> > > > possible) to any other player who also performs the above three
> > > > pledges, except Cuddle Beam.
> > > >
> > > > nichdel -
> > > > I pledge to not refer to 天火狐 as Josh or Josh T.
> > > >
> > > > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus -
> > > > I too pledge to not refer to 天火狐 as Josh or Josh T.
> > > >
> > > > Pu

Re: DIS: Draft: Anonymity Patch

2018-06-14 Thread Corona
Nvm, it doesn't need to.

~Corona

On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 10:06 PM, Corona 
wrote:

> AI needs to be 3.1
>
> ~Corona
>
> On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 9:56 PM, Aris Merchant  gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Title: Anonymity Patch
>> Adoption index: 3.0
>> Author: Aris
>> Co-authors: G.
>>
>> Amend Rule 478, "Fora", by appending
>>
>>   "In order for an action to be taken by sending a message, the message
>>   must include all information (such as the sender's identity) which is
>> not
>>   generally available to players and is required to understand the game
>> effect
>>   of the message."
>>
>> to the last paragraph of the rule.
>>
>> Change the power of Rule 478, "Fora", to 3.1.
>>
>> [I'm astonished that no one has thought to do this before now, given
>> that this rule contains conditions for ALL actions taken by sending
>> messages
>> to work.]
>>
>
>


Re: DIS: Draft: Anonymity Patch

2018-06-14 Thread Corona
AI needs to be 3.1

~Corona

On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 9:56 PM, Aris Merchant <
thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Title: Anonymity Patch
> Adoption index: 3.0
> Author: Aris
> Co-authors: G.
>
> Amend Rule 478, "Fora", by appending
>
>   "In order for an action to be taken by sending a message, the message
>   must include all information (such as the sender's identity) which is not
>   generally available to players and is required to understand the game
> effect
>   of the message."
>
> to the last paragraph of the rule.
>
> Change the power of Rule 478, "Fora", to 3.1.
>
> [I'm astonished that no one has thought to do this before now, given
> that this rule contains conditions for ALL actions taken by sending
> messages
> to work.]
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: Late monthly Reports: ATMunn, Kenyon

2018-06-14 Thread Corona
Why did we abolish actual monetary fines again? The way it's now, either
you have the incense (and suffer no ill effects whatsoever), or you don't
(and you cannot win the game for a month or more).

~Corona

On Thu, Jun 14, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Alex Smith 
wrote:

> On Thu, 2018-06-14 at 08:36 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> >
> > That's still an issue with a lot of buildup.  If someone isn't an officer
> > for a few months they probably won't have a lot to spend incense on, then
> > if they become an officer they can miss lots of reports and spend very
> > little to expunge the penalties.  Even lessening the monthly rate won't
> > help too much here.
>
> What about making it so that officers find incense much easier to gain
> than non-officers? It'd give something of an incentive for taking the
> job, and help to equalise the rate somewhat. (It also makes sense as
> being an officer puts you at a much higher risk of breaking the rules.)
>
> --
> ais523
>


Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] Weekly Report

2018-06-12 Thread Corona
​For anyone interested: the​
 translation is "Anger be now your
​ [Achilles']​
 song".
More literally, "Rage—Goddess, sing the rage of [Achilles]"

μῆνιν = acc. sg, of rage/wrath (of the gods)
ἄειδε = imperative active singular 2nd person of sing/chant
θεὰ =  goddess, I think it's singular vocative

~Corona

On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 2:51 AM, ATMunn  wrote:

> Ah, ok.
>
>
> On 6/12/2018 7:46 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:
>
>> Ancient Greek, not modern Greek. It's from the start of the Iliad. [1] In
>> fact, it's the first words, or incipit, of the text.
>>
>> [1]  http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:19
>> 99.01.0133
>>
>> -Aris
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 4:41 PM ATMunn  wrote:
>>
>> I tried translating the text at the top of this report. Turns out,
>>> unless google translate is broken, it wasn't meant to be translated,
>>> it's gibberish. (unless the language isn't supposed to be Greek?)
>>>
>>> On 6/12/2018 5:40 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Registrar's Weekly Report
>>>
>>>>
>>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>>>
>>>>   Date of last report: 03 Jun 2018 Date of this report: 12 Jun 2018
>>>> (all times UTC)
>>>>
>>>> (μῆνιν ἄειδε θεὰ)
>>>>
>>>> Recent Events (recent events section not ratifying)
>>>>
>>>> 08-May-18 12:50:50   Registrar initiates zombie auction for Telnaior,
>>>> 天火狐 20-May-18 19:49:44   G. flips Telnaior's master switch to G.
>>>> (auction). 21-May-18 05:37:32   Corona flips 天火狐's master switch to
>>>> Corona (auction). 24-May-18 21:46:42   twg registers.  Welcome, twg!
>>>> 25-May-18 23:31:10   Publius Scribonius Scholasticus sets eir master
>>>> switch to emself.
>>>>
>>>> (time of last report)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Players (20) (by Rule 869, Persons with 'Registered' Citizenship,
>>>> z=zombie)
>>>>
>>>> Player   Contact
>>>> Registered --   ---
>>>> -- Aris thoughtsoflifeandlight17 at gmail.com
>>>> 13 Sep 16 Gaelan   gbs at canishe.com
>>>> 15 May 17 G.   kerim at u.washington.edu
>>>> 25 Aug 17 Cuddle Beam  cuddlebeam at gmail.com
>>>> 25 Aug 17 Trigon   reuben.staley at gmail.com
>>>> 24 Sep 17 Corona   liliumalbum.agora at gmail.com
>>>> 17 Nov 17 Murphy   emurphy42 at zoho.com
>>>> 17 Dec 17 VJ Rada  edwardostrange at gmail.com
>>>> 29 Dec 17 Kenyon   kprater3.14 at gmail.com
>>>> 27 Feb 18 ATMunn   iamingodsarmy at gmail.com
>>>> 11 Mar 18 Ouri ouri.poupko at gmail.com
>>>> 03 Apr 18 twg  me at timon.red
>>>> 24 May 18 P. Scholasticus [1]  pscriboniusscholasticus at
>>>> gmail.com[2] 16 Apr 17 z  omd  comexk at gmail.com
>>>> [3]     03 Feb 11 z  oowen at
>>>> grimoire.ca 12 Jul 16 z  Quazie
>>>> quazienomic at gmail.com15 Apr 17 z  nichdel
>>>> nichdel at gmail.com29 Jun 17 z  pokes
>>>> pokes at botnoise.org   11 Dec 17 z  天火狐
>>>> draconicdarkness at gmail.com   06 Nov 16 z  Telnaior
>>>> jdga at iinet.net.au20 Oct 17
>>>>
>>>> [1] In full, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus [2] officially, but
>>>> technically equivalent p.scribonius.scholasticus at googlemail.com
>>>> [3] officially, but technically equivalent c.ome.xk at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Non-default Master Switches (Player:value, self-ratifying)
>>>>
>>>> omd  : G. Quazie   : Corona nichdel  : ATMunn o: G. pokes
>>>> : omd Telnaior : G. 天火狐: Corona
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fora (Rule 478, self-ratifying)
>>>>
>>>> Type Location  Typical use 
>>>>   --- Public
>>>> agora-official at agoranomic.org  

Re: DIS: Regarding the rapid proprietization of land

2018-06-12 Thread Corona
​Well, the thing that comes to mind first is to incentivize small groups,
which would in general make the board more lively, e.g. by​:

-movement (to same color would cost 2 apples, to different 1 apple)
-making facilities produce less for every other facility in the same-color
"group" (or it could be a bonus to isolated facilities, same thing)
-making the (immune to transfiguration) central square completely gray, so
that it doesn't support/encourage the 2 large groups


~Corona

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:10 PM, Reuben Staley 
wrote:

> Excuse me, but have you seen how big the groups of contiguous land units
> are? Capturing any unit except ATMunn's lone white unit would be nearly
> impossible. And it's not like it's gonna stop being that way any time soon.
> It only costs one more apple to make a land unit that you can choose the
> color of than one that you can't. I can only forsee these groups getting
> bigger and bigger and harder to capture as a result. Your idea is nice, but
> it ignores a larger problem.
>
>
> On 06/12/2018 12:03 PM, Corona wrote:
>
>> Well, what would you think about reviving my suggestion to incentivize
>> "capturing" land units with a healthy financial reward?
>>
>> ~Corona
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 7:55 PM, Reuben Staley 
>> wrote:
>>
>> In compliance with rule 2004, I run land auctions (almost) every Agoran
>>> Week. However, I am not to run them if the number of Units of Private
>>> Land
>>> is less than one half the total number of Units of Land. And with five
>>> land
>>> units auctioned off each week, we are rapidly approaching that ratio.
>>> This
>>> is obviously a problem, since once we reach it, there will be no more
>>> land
>>> auctions, and with barely any rules in place to ensure a continuous
>>> recycling of land units back to Agora, the ownership of land will
>>> basically
>>> freeze.
>>>
>>> I believe the way to fix this lies in a system that automatically
>>> transfers the least useful LUs from their owners back to Agora every week
>>> if the number of Units of Private Land is greater than one half the total
>>> number of Units of Land. This would keep the number of Units of Private
>>> Land at a nice equilibrium, hovering around one half ownership.
>>>
>>> The problem is that I have no idea how such a system would choose land
>>> units to give back to Agora. Okay, I actually have one idea, but it would
>>> require lots of calculation. For the sake of discussion, I'll describe it
>>> here.
>>>
>>> Each Unit has a land value which is calculated each week based on a
>>> number
>>> of factors. The value would increase for each level the facility build on
>>> it had, for each adjacent land unit of the same color, etc.. The value
>>> would decrease if the person that owned it was no longer a player, or if
>>> no
>>> change had occured for some set time. Each unit with a value of whatever
>>> the minimum of the set of land unit values is, is transferred to Agora
>>> for
>>> auctioning.
>>>
>>> Like I said, that would be a crazy amount of calculation, so I'm not sure
>>> how practical it really is.
>>>
>>> Please leave suggestions. We need to fix this before we reach that one
>>> half mark.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Trigon
>>>
>>>
> --
> Trigon
>


Re: DIS: Regarding the rapid proprietization of land

2018-06-12 Thread Corona
It's off-topic, but it just occurred to me that it'd be nice if you
(Trigon) could, in the interactive Cartographor report, make some little
ownership flags or w/e display over the land units - clicking on them one
by one to find out who owns what is a little awkward.

~Corona

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:27 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> What's the reason for the 50/50 rule in the first place?  It seems like
> the current players want plots/little empires whatever, and with upkeep
> fees keeping things undeveloped is occasionally useful.
>
> I would personally either change the ratio to allow more ownership, or
> maybe just plain old increase the map size (if this is Go, is our end-goal
> 19x19?)
>
> Things are Just Getting Going (active auctions, production) and tweaking
> by adding a lot of new process/reclamation (as opposed to minor ratio
> adjustments or land expansions) seems like a recipe for things to slow
> up again while we wait for changes to go through and be debugged etc. -
> uncertainty decreases investment.
>
> On Tue, 12 Jun 2018, Reuben Staley wrote:
> > In compliance with rule 2004, I run land auctions (almost) every Agoran
> Week.
> > However, I am not to run them if the number of Units of Private Land is
> less
> > than one half the total number of Units of Land. And with five land units
> > auctioned off each week, we are rapidly approaching that ratio. This is
> > obviously a problem, since once we reach it, there will be no more land
> > auctions, and with barely any rules in place to ensure a continuous
> recycling
> > of land units back to Agora, the ownership of land will basically freeze.
> >
> > I believe the way to fix this lies in a system that automatically
> transfers
> > the least useful LUs from their owners back to Agora every week if the
> number
> > of Units of Private Land is greater than one half the total number of
> Units of
> > Land. This would keep the number of Units of Private Land at a nice
> > equilibrium, hovering around one half ownership.
> >
> > The problem is that I have no idea how such a system would choose land
> units
> > to give back to Agora. Okay, I actually have one idea, but it would
> require
> > lots of calculation. For the sake of discussion, I'll describe it here.
> >
> > Each Unit has a land value which is calculated each week based on a
> number of
> > factors. The value would increase for each level the facility build on
> it had,
> > for each adjacent land unit of the same color, etc.. The value would
> decrease
> > if the person that owned it was no longer a player, or if no change had
> > occured for some set time. Each unit with a value of whatever the
> minimum of
> > the set of land unit values is, is transferred to Agora for auctioning.
> >
> > Like I said, that would be a crazy amount of calculation, so I'm not
> sure how
> > practical it really is.
> >
> > Please leave suggestions. We need to fix this before we reach that one
> half
> > mark.
> >
> > --
> > Trigon
> >
>
>


Re: DIS: Regarding the rapid proprietization of land

2018-06-12 Thread Corona
Well, what would you think about reviving my suggestion to incentivize
"capturing" land units with a healthy financial reward?

~Corona

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 7:55 PM, Reuben Staley 
wrote:

> In compliance with rule 2004, I run land auctions (almost) every Agoran
> Week. However, I am not to run them if the number of Units of Private Land
> is less than one half the total number of Units of Land. And with five land
> units auctioned off each week, we are rapidly approaching that ratio. This
> is obviously a problem, since once we reach it, there will be no more land
> auctions, and with barely any rules in place to ensure a continuous
> recycling of land units back to Agora, the ownership of land will basically
> freeze.
>
> I believe the way to fix this lies in a system that automatically
> transfers the least useful LUs from their owners back to Agora every week
> if the number of Units of Private Land is greater than one half the total
> number of Units of Land. This would keep the number of Units of Private
> Land at a nice equilibrium, hovering around one half ownership.
>
> The problem is that I have no idea how such a system would choose land
> units to give back to Agora. Okay, I actually have one idea, but it would
> require lots of calculation. For the sake of discussion, I'll describe it
> here.
>
> Each Unit has a land value which is calculated each week based on a number
> of factors. The value would increase for each level the facility build on
> it had, for each adjacent land unit of the same color, etc.. The value
> would decrease if the person that owned it was no longer a player, or if no
> change had occured for some set time. Each unit with a value of whatever
> the minimum of the set of land unit values is, is transferred to Agora for
> auctioning.
>
> Like I said, that would be a crazy amount of calculation, so I'm not sure
> how practical it really is.
>
> Please leave suggestions. We need to fix this before we reach that one
> half mark.
>
> --
> Trigon
>


Re: DIS: trades

2018-06-12 Thread Corona
I support this too.

~Corona

On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 5:04 PM, ATMunn  wrote:

> I like this idea and will use it if it gets enacted. +1
>
>
> On 6/12/2018 2:42 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Proto:  Trades.
>>
>> [this might be a type of contract or something but it seems nice like
>> a standalone too]
>>
>> A player (the seller) CAN create a Trade Offer by announcement,
>> specifying a set of assets e owns (the tender) and an action
>> (the exchange) that e wants in trade (e.g. a transfer of assets
>> to emself).  E may optionally specify a set of players other
>> than the seller eligible to make the exchange (buyers).  If e
>> does not specify the default buyers are all players other than
>> the seller.
>>
>> A Trade Offer is valid until:
>>   (a) a buyer makes the exchange for that Trade Offer;
>>   (b) the seller withdraws the offer; or
>>   (c) one week has passed.
>>
>> A buyer makes the exchange on a valid Trade Offer by
>> announcement, citing the specific offer as the reason for
>> performing the exchange action, provided that (1) the buyer
>> CAN otherwise perform the exchange action by announcement;
>>(2) the seller CAN transfer the tender to the buyer by
>> announcement.
>>
>> When the exchange is made, that buyer performs the exchange
>> action,
>> and immediately afterwards the tender is transferred from the
>> seller to the buyer.  If either portion of the trade fails,
>> both fail (no exchange action is performed and no tender is
>> transferred).
>>
>>
>>
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Got some new toys.

2018-06-12 Thread Corona
FYI: The Spivak pronoun nominative is "e", not "ey" (reflecting "he" and
"she"), though you can, of course, use any pronouns you want.

I favor the CFJ called by V.J. Rada in this thread.

On Tuesday, June 12, 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:

> I become a party to the contract "Sillyness by contract".
>
> I act on behalf of V.J. Rada to perform the following actions: {
>
> Destroy 1 apple to move V.J. Rada to (0, -1).
>
> Destroy 1 apple to move V.J. Rada to (-1, -1).
>
> Transfer all liquid assets from the mine at (-1, -1) to V.J. Rada.
>
> Transfer 3 stone and 2 ore from V.J. Rada to Trigon.
>
> }
>
> This meets the requirement of being extremely silly because it is only
> necessary due to a minor grammatical error on Trigon's part, and it meets
> the requirement of not harming V.J. Rada's standing in the game
> significantly because eir only loss from these actions is 2 apples (which
> ey already have plenty of) and the right to transfer assets from a
> preserved facility before next Friday (which ey already have enough assets
> not to have much need of).
>
> -twg
> ​​
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>
> On June 12, 2018 10:31 AM, Ned Strange  wrote:
>
> > ​​
> >
> > it doesn't, do it again
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018 at 8:25 PM, Reuben Staley reuben.sta...@gmail.com
> wrote:
> >
> > > Could you guys let me do one thing in this game without pointing out
> how I
> > >
> > > messed up?
> > >
> > > Okay, okay. Here's a flimsy argument for why this works:
> > >
> > > I could only possibly transfer items to myself from a facility on a
> land
> > >
> > > unit I'm on. Therefore, "that unit" should mean "the unit I'm on" since
> > >
> > > that's the only option for transferring. Therefore, the attempt
> succeeds.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2018, 04:13 Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> > >
> > > > On June 12, 2018 8:25 AM, Reuben Staley reuben.sta...@gmail.com
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I destroy a coin to make (-2, -1) black and switch the alternating
> type.
> > > > >
> > > > > I transfer the mine on that unit's resources to myself.
> > > >
> > > > Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this fails, because (-2, -1)
> > > >
> > > > doesn't have a mine on it, and wasn't where you were standing
> anyway. I
> > > >
> > > > think you meant to reference the mine at (-1, -1), but I can't come
> up with
> > > >
> > > > a parsing where "that unit" refers to anything other than (-2, -1).
> > > >
> > > > -twg
> >
> > --
> >
> > From V.J. Rada
>
>
>

-- 
~Corona


DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [ADoP] Metareport

2018-06-11 Thread Corona
Can you actually do that? I can't find anything that would allow
withdrawing nominations.

~Corona

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 4:35 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 11 Jun 2018, Ned Strange wrote:
> > I become a candidate for Referee
>
> I withdraw my nomination for Referee.  -G.
>
>
>
>


Fwd: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Treasuror] Agora and G. accumulate more wealth; zombies & public facilities bankrupt, as always

2018-06-11 Thread Corona
CFJs can only interpret rules, and I don't know any rules that could be
reasonably construed to mean that what I did was illegal.

-- Forwarded message --
From: *Ned Strange* 
Date: Monday, June 11, 2018
Subject: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Treasuror] Agora and G. accumulate more
wealth; zombies & public facilities bankrupt, as always
To: "Agora Nomic discussions (DF)" 


Don't we have a CFJ ruling that trying to insert apathy wins in a report
was an abuse? Or it might have been the opposite. But I vividly remember
such a CFJ.

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 7:52 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> y'know, that was a silly reaction.  I give 2 incense to Corona.
>
> On Sun, 10 Jun 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > I Object to the intent.
> >
> > I Levy a fine of 2 Blots on Corona (Summary Judgement) for this
> > abuse of office.
> >
> > On Sun, 10 Jun 2018, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
> > > I object to Corona's intent to win by Apathy.
> > >
> > > I nominate myself for Treasuror.
> > >
> > > -twg
> > >
> > > ​​
> > >
> > > ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> > >
> > > On June 10, 2018 8:12 PM, Corona  wrote:
> > >
> > > > ​​[Sun Jun 10 22:12] This line is not a part of the report. Corona
> intends to
> > > win by Apathy without objection.
> > >
> >
>



-- 
>From V.J. Rada



-- 
~Corona


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Homerun

2018-06-10 Thread Corona
EFDoA applies only from Mondays to Thursdays. After that, it's assumed (or
that was my intention when creating the law) that people don't care about
the assets, so why not let someone collect them all?


2. if the facility is built on preserved Public Land and less
  than four days have passed since assets were created in the
  facility most recently, e must not have taken any assets from
  the inventory of another facility located on a preserved Land
  Unit within this Agoran week.

~Corona

On Mon, Jun 11, 2018 at 1:14 AM, Reuben Staley 
wrote:

> Is EFDoA broken too? I certainly don't remember any discussion on this. If
> it's not, then all transfers except for the first one FAIL.
>
> On 06/10/2018 01:32 PM, Corona wrote:
>
>> I transfer 8 apples to Quazie.
>>
>> I act on behalf of Quazie to perform all actions enclosed within the
>> following curly braces: {
>>
>> Transfer all assets from the facility at (-1, -1) to Quazie.
>>
>> Destroy 1 apple to move to (-1, 0).
>>
>> Destroy 2 apples to move to (-1,+1).
>>
>> Transfer all assets from the facility at (-1, +1) to Quazie.
>>
>> Destroy 1 apple to move to (0, +1).
>>
>> Destroy 1 apple to move to (+1,+1).
>>
>> Transfer all assets from the facility at (+1, +1) to Quazie.
>>
>> Destroy 1 apple to move to (+1, 0).
>>
>> Destroy 2 apples to move to (+1,-1).
>>
>> Transfer all assets from the facility at (+1, -1) to Quazie.
>>
>> Transfer all of Quazie's assets to Corona.
>>
>> }
>>
>>
>>
>> ~Corona
>>
>>
> --
> Trigon
>


Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Herald][Medal of Honour]

2018-06-10 Thread Corona
​Ah, nevermind then.​

~Corona

On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 10:52 PM, Kerim Aydin 
wrote:

>
>
> No, the whole thing just fails I'm afraid (Rule 2529/3):
>In the second Eastman week of an Agoran month, if there are any
>players who are eligible for a Medal of Honour, the Herald CAN, by
>announcement, initiate an Agoran Decision on who is to be awarded
>a Medal of Honour.
> If there's no eligible players, there's no CAN for initiation.
>
> On Sun, 10 Jun 2018, Alex Smith wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 2018-06-10 at 22:26 +0200, Corona wrote:
> > > I initiate an Agoran Decision on who is to be awarded a Medal of
> > > Honour for June 2018. For this decision, the valid options are {}.
> > > The vote collector is the Herald, and the voting method is instant-
> > > runoff.
> > > Quorum is 6.
> >
> > Huh, some fun rulesey stuff going on here. As far as I can tell, it's
> > impossible to meaningfully vote on this, but it cannot fail quorum;
> > rather, at the end of the voting period (which the Herald SHALL end
> > early, and CAN do so by resolving it in the same message) it ends with
> > a null outcome. The outcome of the vote is then awarded a Medal of
> > Honour. Again as far as I can tell, there's nothing restricting what
> > sort of entity can own a Medal of Honour, so it looks like the Medal
> > owned by the null outcome is going to become a tracked part of the
> > Herald report.
> >
> > Unfortunately, the rules don't allow for the null outcome to get a win
> > if this happens six times, but I think we should give it an honorary
> > win by proposal if the situation ever comes up.
> >
> > --
> > ais523
> >
>
>


Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Herald][Medal of Honour]

2018-06-10 Thread Corona
Oh yeah, I thought so, I just couldn't find the relevant paragraph. Well,
now I have to wait 7 days to resolve, I guess.

~Corona

On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 10:45 PM, Alex Smith 
wrote:

> On Sun, 2018-06-10 at 22:26 +0200, Corona wrote:
> > I initiate an Agoran Decision on who is to be awarded a Medal of
> > Honour for June 2018. For this decision, the valid options are {}.
> > The vote collector is the Herald, and the voting method is instant-
> > runoff.
> > Quorum is 6.
>
> Huh, some fun rulesey stuff going on here. As far as I can tell, it's
> impossible to meaningfully vote on this, but it cannot fail quorum;
> rather, at the end of the voting period (which the Herald SHALL end
> early, and CAN do so by resolving it in the same message) it ends with
> a null outcome. The outcome of the vote is then awarded a Medal of
> Honour. Again as far as I can tell, there's nothing restricting what
> sort of entity can own a Medal of Honour, so it looks like the Medal
> owned by the null outcome is going to become a tracked part of the
> Herald report.
>
> Unfortunately, the rules don't allow for the null outcome to get a win
> if this happens six times, but I think we should give it an honorary
> win by proposal if the situation ever comes up.
>
> --
> ais523
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] The Map of Arcadia -- May 4, 2018

2018-05-09 Thread Corona
But it would self-ratify before the new report would and I was afraid
somebody would notice and I'd lose the Land Unit again...

~Corona

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 9:51 PM, Reuben Staley <reuben.sta...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Oh, come on. I was going to put out this week's report today.  >:(
>
> On Wed, May 9, 2018, 13:39 Corona <liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > CoE:
> > When this report was posted, the land unit (2,2) was already in my
> > possession, as I paid the winning bid for it the day before.
> >
> >
> > https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/
> agora-business/2018-May/038331.html
> >
> > ~Corona
> >
> > On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 1:08 AM, Reuben Staley <reuben.sta...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Note from the Cartographor: I'm trying out a new style for reports;
> > > tell me how you like it. Also, I'm sure there are still mistakes. Tell
> me
> > > those too.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 
> 
> > > THE MAP OF ARCADIA -- MAY 4, 2018 -- REVISION 1
> > > View an interactive version of this report here:
> > > https://agoranomic.org/Cartographor/maps/map-2018-05-04.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > VARIOUS MAPS
> > > 
> 
> > >
> > >   LONGITUDE   LONGITUDE
> > >
> > >   - 6543210123456 +   - 6543210123456 +
> > >  - - - -
> > >  6  .  6 6  .  6
> > >  5  .  5 5  .  5
> > >  4  .  4 4  .  4
> > >   L  3  .  3  L  3  .  3  L
> > >   A  2  .  2  A  2  .  2  A
> > >   T  1  wwwbb  1  T  1  a...K  1  T
> > >   I  0  wwgbb  0  I  0  T...C  0  I
> > >   T  1  ...wwwbbbw...  1  T  1  C...AM...  1  T
> > >   U  2  w  2  U  2  ..GC.  2  U
> > >   D  3  .bb..  3  D  3  .  3  D
> > >   E  4  ..b..  4  E  4  .  4  E
> > >  5  ..b..  5 5  .  5
> > >  6  ..bb.  6 6  .  6
> > >  + + + +
> > >   - 6543210123456 +   - 6543210123456 +
> > >
> > >  LAND  TYPE   OWNERSHIP
> > >   -   -
> > >   aether(.)   Agora (.)
> > >   white (w)   Gaelan(a)
> > >   black (b)   Kenyon(K)
> > >   gray  (g)   Trigon(T)
> > >   Corona(C)
> > >   Aris  (A)
> > >   ATMunn(M)
> > >   G.(G)
> > >
> > >   LONGITUDE   LONGITUDE
> > >
> > >   - 6543210123456 +   - 6543210123456 +
> > >  - - - -
> > >  6  .  6 6  .  6
> > >  5  .  5 5  .  5
> > >  4  .  4 4  .  4
> > >   L  3  .  3  L  3  .  3  L
> > >   A  2  .  2  A  2  .  2  A
> > >   T  1  .###.  1  T  1  .1.2.  1  T
> > >   I  0  .###.  0  I  0  5  0  I
> > >   T  1  .###.  1  T  1  73.4.3...  1  T
> > >   U  2  .  2  U  2  ..96.  2  U
> > >   D  3  .  3  D  3  .  3  D
> > >   E  4  .  4  E  4  .  4  E
> > >  5  .  5 5  .  5
> > >  6  .  6 6  .  6
> > >  + + + +
> > >   - 6543210123456 +   - 6543210123456 +
> > >
> > >    

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] Land auctions for May week 1

2018-05-09 Thread Corona
Oh I see, sorry.

~Corona

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 9:28 PM, Reuben Staley <reuben.sta...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> If you've paid, then you should havethe land unit already.
>
> On Wed, May 9, 2018, 13:26 Corona <liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Nvm, I want 2. (By the way, Trigon, are you going to resolve that last
> > auction? As I said earlier, Quazie had eir bid withdrawn and I paid.)
> > I bid 14 coins in the ongoing land auction.
> > I act on behalf of Quazie to bid 14 coins in the ongoing land auction. I
> > transfer 3 coins to Quazie.
> >
> > ~Corona
> >
> > On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 7:23 PM, Corona <liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > ​I bid 12 coins.​
> > >
> > > ~Corona
> > >
> > > On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 7:21 PM, Reuben Staley <reuben.sta...@gmail.com
> >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> TTTTPF
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, May 9, 2018, 11:20 Reuben Staley <reuben.sta...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > I bid 12 coins.
> > >> >
> > >> > On Wed, May 9, 2018, 11:19 Corona <liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> ​I bid 11 coins in the ongoing land auction.​ I act on behalf of
> > Quazie
> > >> >> to bid
> > >> >> 11 coins in the ongoing land auction.​ I transfer 2 coins to
> Quazie.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> ~Corona
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 6:13 PM, Kerim Aydin <
> ke...@u.washington.edu>
> > >> >> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > I bid 12 coins in the ongoing land auction.
> > >> >> > I act on behalf of o:  o bids 12 coins in the ongoing land
> auction.
> > >> >> > I act on behalf of omd:  omd bids 12 coins in the ongoing land
> > >> auction.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > I transfer 4 coins to o.
> > >> >> > I transfer 4 coins to omd.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > On Tue, 8 May 2018, Corona wrote:
> > >> >> > > I bid 9 coins in the ongoing land auction.
> > >> >> > > ​I act on behalf of Quazie to bid 9 coins in​ the ongoing land
> > >> >> auction. I
> > >> >> > > transfer 9 coins to Quazie.
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > ~Corona
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 1:18 PM, Kerim Aydin <
> > >> ke...@u.washington.edu>
> > >> >> > wrote:
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > I bid 8 coins in the ongoing land auction.
> > >> >> > > > I act on behalf of o:  o bids 8 coins in the ongoing land
> > >> auction.
> > >> >> > > > I act on behalf of omd:  omd bids 8 coins in the ongoing land
> > >> >> auction.
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > I transfer 8 coins to o.
> > >> >> > > > I transfer 8 coins to omd.
> > >> >> > > >
> > >> >> > > > On Sat, 5 May 2018, ATMunn wrote:
> > >> >> > > > > I bid 10 coins in the ongoing land auction.
> > >> >> > > > >
> > >> >> > > > > On 5/5/2018 3:12 AM, Corona wrote:
> > >> >> > > > > > ​I bid 4 and I act on behalf of Quazie to bid 4 in the
> > >> ongoing
> > >> >> land
> > >> >> > > > > > auction.​
> > >> >> > > > > >
> > >> >> > > > > > ~Corona
> > >> >> > > > > >
> > >> >> > > > > > On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 9:09 AM, Reuben Staley <
> > >> >> > reuben.sta...@gmail.com
> > >> >> > > > >
> > >> >> > > > > > wrote:
> > >> >> > > > > >
> > >> >> > > > > > > Attempt 2, here we go!
> > >> >> > > > > > >
> > >> >> > &

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] May Zombie Auction

2018-05-09 Thread Corona
I was kidding (as indicated by the smiley), you don't need to justify
yourself.

I know how profitable the zombies are, ofc. I was just hoping it would be
like the last auction where everyone just kind of bid really low for some
reason, but I am willing to bid 50+ coins for a zombie if it comes to that.

~Corona

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 7:31 PM, Kerim Aydin <ke...@u.washington.edu> wrote:

>
>
> Ok, I'll lay it out.
>
> 1.  I'm after the currencies not the votes.
>
> 2.  I plan to work with Aris to propose some version of the zombie nerf
> this
> week, that would limit votes/dictatorship in some substantive way.  (just
> running behind on that in real life).  So if we can get that through,
> dictatorship will be very limited.  I'm willing to pledge not to use votes
> in the mean time.
>
> 3.  Just on looting alone, Telanaior is still absolutely profitable up to
> a
> bid of 55 Coins (and beyond but that depends on exchange rates).  Sure it
> would be nice to maximize that by bidding lower but not a priority.
> 天火狐 is similar up to 40 coins.
>
> Deal to be made on those parameters?  Maybe.  Maybe a better deal to be
> made
> after the land auction (now that I'm into land, I *really* see how
> multi-lot
> auctions suck for land).
>
> -G.
>
> On Wed, 9 May 2018, Corona wrote:
> > G., stop trying to usurp dictatorship of Agora! ;) Or perhaps we could
> come
> > to an agreement - you get one, I get one, as we have the most coins.
> >
> > I bid 11 coins in the zombie auction.
> >
> > ‾Corona
> >
> > On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 7:09 PM, Kerim Aydin <ke...@u.washington.edu>
> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > I bid 10 coins in the zombie auction.
> > > I act on behalf of o:  o bids 10 coins in the zombie auction.
> > >
> > > On Tue, 8 May 2018, Corona wrote:
> > > > I bid 2 coins in the zombie auction.
> > > >
> > > > ‾Corona
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 3:14 PM, ATMunn <iamingodsa...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I bid 1 coin.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 5/8/2018 8:50 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I initiate a zombie auction with the following lots. The ITEMS in
> each
> > > > >> lot is to have that player's master switch set to the auction
> winner.
> > > > >> The AUCTIONEER is Agora. The ANNOUNCER is myself (as Registrar).
> The
> > > > >> MINIMUM BID/CURRENCY is 1 Coin.  The auction ends 7 days after
> this
> > > > >> announcement, or 96 hours after the last bid change (whichever
> comes
> > > > >> first).
> > > > >>
> > > > >> * LOTS (from highest to lowest winning bid):
> > > > >>Telnaior, 天火狐
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
>


DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Treasuror] Forbes 500

2018-05-09 Thread Corona
Oh ok, will fix

~Corona

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 7:18 PM, Kerim Aydin <ke...@u.washington.edu> wrote:

>
>
> CoE:  Still off I'm afraid.  Zombies should get the May salary (that
> includes
> 3 Incs) but not the initial 5.  (then some people transferred the Incs from
> their zombies to themselves when they transferred 'all assets' after May
> 1).
>
>
> On Sat, 5 May 2018, Corona wrote:
>
> > Accepted. Revision:
> >
> >
> > +---++++---+++--
> --++++
> > |Entity
> > |Ston|Appl|Corn|Ore|Lmbr|Cotn|Coin|Papr|Fabr|Incs|
> > +---++++---+++--
> --++++
> > |ATMunn |   6|  27|   0|  0|   7|   0|  49|  12|   0|
> > 8|
> > |Aris   |   5|  25|   7|  0|   5|   0|  77|   5|   0|
> > 8|
> > |Corona |  24|  39|  15| 17|   9|  18|  85|  16|   0|
> > 8|
> > |CuddleBeam |  11|  13|   9|  4|   8|   9|  40|   8|   0|
> > 8|
> > |G. |  20|  55|  11|  0|  13|   0| 137|  29|   0|
> > 8|
> > |Gaelan |  14|  23|   2|  6|   2|   0|  37|   8|   0|
> > 8|
> > |Kenyon |  14|  32|   4|  6|  20|   3|  35|   7|   0|
> > 8|
> > |Murphy |   5|  25|   4|  0|   8|   0|  60|   9|   0|
> > 8|
> > |PSS|   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  10|   2|   0|
> > 0|
> > |Quazie |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> > 0|
> > |Telnaior   |   5|  25|   3|  0|   5|   0|  55|   9|   0|
> > 0|
> > |Trigon |   3|  20|  11|  2|   4|  12|  28|   5|   0|
> > 8|
> > |VJ Rada|  10|  45|   1|  0|  10|   0|  55|  15|   0|
> > 8|
> > |nichdel|   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> > 0|
> > |o  |   0|   1|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> > 0|
> > |omd|   0|  10|   0|  0|   0|   0|  20|   4|   0|
> > 0|
> > |Ouri   |   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  14|   2|   0|
> > 8|
> > |pokes  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> > 0|
> > |天火狐  |   5|  25|   0|  0|   5|   0|  40|   9|   0|
>  0|
> > +---++++---+++--
> --++++
> > |farm at 1,-1   |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> > 0|
> > |mine at -1,-1  |   3|   0|   0|  2|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> > 0|
> > |mine at 1,1|   3|   0|   0|  2|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> > 0|
> > |orchard at -1,1|   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> > 0|
> > |(Corona’s) mine at 0,2 |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> > 0|
> > |(Corona’s) refinery at 1,-2|   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> > 0|
> > |(Corona’s) orchard at 2,1  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> > 0|
> > |(ATMunn’s) farm at 1,3 |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> > 0|
> > |(G.’s) mine at 2,0 |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> > 0|
> > |Finger Pointing Workaround |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> > 0|
> > |Agora  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0| 179|   0|   0|
> > 0|
> > +---+----+++---+++--
> --++++
> >
> > The following abbreviations are used in the table above:
> >
> > Ston = stone
> >
> > Appl = apples
> >
> > Lmbr = lumber
> >
> > Cotn = cotton
> >
> > Coin = coins
> >
> > Papr = papers
> >
> > Fabr = fabric
> >
> > Incs = incense
> >
> >
> >
> > PSS = Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> >
> >
> >
> > Recent changes (most recent first, times in UTC, non-self-ratifying):
> >
> > [Sat May 5 06:05:57] Corona transferred 4 corn to o
> >
> > [Sat May 5 00:31:09] Trigon pended “be with you” with 1 paper
> >
> > [Fri May 4 21:31:10] o, being acted on behalf of by G., destroyed 5
> apples
> > to move and change a land type
> >
> > [Fri May 4 21:00:40] ATMunn transferred 5 apples to o
> >
> > [Fri May 4 18:10:13] G. moved and changed a land type, destroying 5
> apples
> >
> > [Fri May 4 17:30:58] G. gave o 20 apples and o, being acted on behalf of
> by
> > G., destroyed 19 apples to start a circu

DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] May Zombie Auction

2018-05-09 Thread Corona
G., stop trying to usurp dictatorship of Agora! ;) Or perhaps we could come
to an agreement - you get one, I get one, as we have the most coins.

I bid 11 coins in the zombie auction.

~Corona

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 7:09 PM, Kerim Aydin <ke...@u.washington.edu> wrote:

>
>
> I bid 10 coins in the zombie auction.
> I act on behalf of o:  o bids 10 coins in the zombie auction.
>
> On Tue, 8 May 2018, Corona wrote:
> > I bid 2 coins in the zombie auction.
> >
> > ~Corona
> >
> > On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 3:14 PM, ATMunn <iamingodsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > I bid 1 coin.
> > >
> > > On 5/8/2018 8:50 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I initiate a zombie auction with the following lots. The ITEMS in each
> > >> lot is to have that player's master switch set to the auction winner.
> > >> The AUCTIONEER is Agora. The ANNOUNCER is myself (as Registrar).  The
> > >> MINIMUM BID/CURRENCY is 1 Coin.  The auction ends 7 days after this
> > >> announcement, or 96 hours after the last bid change (whichever comes
> > >> first).
> > >>
> > >> * LOTS (from highest to lowest winning bid):
> > >>Telnaior, 天火狐
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> >
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: No Go - Proposal

2018-05-06 Thread Corona
Well, presumably you wouldn't want to "capture" your own land units, as you
lose ownership upon capture. You could create public land units inside an
encircling group and then reap the rewards, but you would barely turn any
profit - you'd have to spend lots of apples running around & creating the
land units, and transfiguration occurs once per month - facilities are
infinitely more convenient than that.

The middle square IMO really ruins the Go aspect by anchoring those two
super-stable groups.

~Corona

On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 1:25 AM, Ørjan Johansen <oer...@nvg.ntnu.no> wrote:

> On Mon, 7 May 2018, Corona wrote:
>
> Huh? In Japanese and Korean Go you score points (that is, your opponent
>> loses points, which is equivalent) for capturing stones.
>>
>
> Yes, but not for making a move such that your *own* stones get captured.
>
> And don't you think it's a shame that there are all these Go simulation
>> rules like Transfiguration and alternating land type, and the only way
>> Land
>> Types are relevant to players is that it's annoying to have to pay 2
>> apples
>> when changing terrain types? That doesn't seem very Go-like to me...
>>
>> Well, thanks for reviewing the proposal!
>>
>
> You're welcome!
>
> Greetings,
> Ørjan.
>
>
> ~Corona
>>
>> On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 10:54 PM, Ørjan Johansen <oer...@nvg.ntnu.no>
>> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun, 6 May 2018, Corona wrote:
>>>
>>> Land Unit A is said to be connected to Land Unit B if it is possible to
>>>
>>>> reach B by moving only to adjacent Land Units of the same Land Type,
>>>> starting from A.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Change "to" to "via", otherwise this does not allow you to go the last
>>> step to B if it's not the same type as A.
>>>
>>> A set Land Units is said to be a Subgroup if all of these Land Units have
>>>
>>>> the
>>>> same Land Type are connected to each other.
>>>>
>>>> A Subgroup is said to be a Group if no set exists such that:
>>>> 1) Its elements are all Land Units of that Subgroup and at least one
>>>> Land
>>>> Unit
>>>> not an element of that Subgroup.
>>>> 2) It is a Subgroup.
>>>>
>>>> [Group = a group of stones in Go]
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Way less complicated:
>>>
>>> "The Group of a Land Unit is the set consisting of it and all other Land
>>> Units of its Land Type that are connected to it."
>>>
>>> 1. Every Land Unit, with a preservation switch of False that is not
>>>
>>>> directly connected to a unit of Aether, or is not connected by
>>>> its
>>>> own type
>>>> to a unit of Aether, shall be transformed to Aether.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I don't particularly like that first comma, but might want one before
>>> "that is not".
>>>
>>> For every Land Unit that has its type changed to Aether by this
>>>
>>>> procedure,
>>>> the player who most recently changed the Land Type of any Land
>>>> Unit such
>>>> that it is an element of the Full Group of the transformed Land
>>>> Unit or
>>>> adjacent to any of the Land Units of the Full Group of the
>>>> transformed Land
>>>> Unit, among the players who aren't Cartographor, receives 3
>>>> coins
>>>> and 2
>>>> apples.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> There are still some "Full" left in there.
>>>
>>> It doesn't quite feel in the spirit of Go to reward someone for changing
>>> a
>>> Land Type in such a way that that Land Unit itself becomes aetherized.
>>> Although I can see that unless it was heavily punished instead, it might
>>> (through collusion or the like) still end up being a rational move in
>>> this
>>> game.
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>> Ørjan.
>>>
>>>
>>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: No Go - Proposal

2018-05-06 Thread Corona
Huh? In Japanese and Korean Go you score points (that is, your opponent
loses points, which is equivalent) for capturing stones.

And don't you think it's a shame that there are all these Go simulation
rules like Transfiguration and alternating land type, and the only way Land
Types are relevant to players is that it's annoying to have to pay 2 apples
when changing terrain types? That doesn't seem very Go-like to me...

Well, thanks for reviewing the proposal!

~Corona

On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 10:54 PM, Ørjan Johansen <oer...@nvg.ntnu.no> wrote:

> On Sun, 6 May 2018, Corona wrote:
>
> Land Unit A is said to be connected to Land Unit B if it is possible to
>> reach B by moving only to adjacent Land Units of the same Land Type,
>> starting from A.
>>
>
> Change "to" to "via", otherwise this does not allow you to go the last
> step to B if it's not the same type as A.
>
> A set Land Units is said to be a Subgroup if all of these Land Units have
>> the
>> same Land Type are connected to each other.
>>
>> A Subgroup is said to be a Group if no set exists such that:
>> 1) Its elements are all Land Units of that Subgroup and at least one Land
>> Unit
>> not an element of that Subgroup.
>> 2) It is a Subgroup.
>>
>> [Group = a group of stones in Go]
>>
>
> Way less complicated:
>
> "The Group of a Land Unit is the set consisting of it and all other Land
> Units of its Land Type that are connected to it."
>
> 1. Every Land Unit, with a preservation switch of False that is not
>> directly connected to a unit of Aether, or is not connected by its
>> own type
>> to a unit of Aether, shall be transformed to Aether.
>>
>
> I don't particularly like that first comma, but might want one before
> "that is not".
>
> For every Land Unit that has its type changed to Aether by this
>> procedure,
>> the player who most recently changed the Land Type of any Land
>> Unit such
>> that it is an element of the Full Group of the transformed Land
>> Unit or
>> adjacent to any of the Land Units of the Full Group of the
>> transformed Land
>> Unit, among the players who aren't Cartographor, receives 3 coins
>> and 2
>> apples.
>>
>
> There are still some "Full" left in there.
>
> It doesn't quite feel in the spirit of Go to reward someone for changing a
> Land Type in such a way that that Land Unit itself becomes aetherized.
> Although I can see that unless it was heavily punished instead, it might
> (through collusion or the like) still end up being a rational move in this
> game.
>
> Greetings,
> Ørjan.
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: No Go - Proposal

2018-05-05 Thread Corona
Oh yeah, I didn't notice that was redundant. I'll make a revision once
everyone has had a chance to comment.

As for (Full) Groups: Right now, (0,-1) and (0,-2), for example, form a
Group, as does any subset of the white Land Units on the "left" side of the
map. However, in Go, one considers a group of stones to include ALL stones
of the same color that are connected.

Hence the definition of Full Group. There are exactly 5 Full Groups right
now:
1) all the black LUs
2) all white LUs except (1,3)
3) (1,3)
4) the (gray) origin
5) all the aether LUs

I don't see how the Land Transfiguration happens at the beginning of the
second Eastman week?

 Once during the second or third Eastman week of each Agoran Month,
  the Cartographor CAN perform the following actions in sequence,
  and report these changes:

[...]

The Cartographor SHALL do so in the second Eastman week of each Agoran
Month.

This rule seems to plainly state that you CAN perform the actions at any
point in the second or third week, and SHALL do so at some point in the
second week, nothing more.

~Corona

On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 11:37 PM, Reuben Staley <reuben.sta...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Comments inline
>
> On Sat, May 5, 2018, 02:09 Corona <liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Well, nobody plays Go on Arcadia, preferring ease of movement instead.
> > Boring!
> >
> > I create the proposal "go, Go!" with the following text; text enclosed in
> > square brackets is not part of the proposal:
> >
> > [This proposal implements a 2 coin, 1 apple reward for each captured
> stone,
> > possibly livening up the board]
> >
> > Amend the rule 1998 "Land Topology" to read in full:
> >
> > Two Units of Land are Adjacent if they have the same Latitude, and their
> > Longitudes differ by exactly one; or they have the same Longitude, and
> > their Latitudes differ by exactly one.
> >
> > Land Unit A is said to be connected to Land Unit B if it is possible to
> > reach B by moving only to adjacent Land Units of the same Land Type,
> > starting from A.
> >
> > [Here I changed color to Land Type, as color is not defined. So far, it
> > didn't break anything, as no LUs were to be changed into Aether]
> >
>
> Yay! Another thing I broke!
>
> A set Land Units is said to be a Group if all of these Land Units have the
> > same Land Type are connected to each other and have the same Land Type.
> >
>
> Stop being redundant and repeating yourself. "Are connected to each other"
> would suffice, no? If you want to stop keep that part anyway, please delete
> one of them.
>
> A Group is said to be a Full Group if no set exists such that:
> > 1) Its elements are all Land Units of that Group and at least one Land
> Unit
> > not an element of that Group.
> > 2) It is a Group.
> >
>
> Can you clarify what you mean with this? I'm not sure if I understand
> fully.
>
> [Full Group = a group of stones in Go]
> >
> > Amend the rule 2022 "Land Transfiguration" so that the first item in the
> > list reads, in full:
> >
> > 1. Every Land Unit, with a preservation switch of False that is not
> > directly connected to a unit of Aether, or is not connected by its own
> type
> > to a unit of Aether, shall be transformed to Aether.
> >
> > For every Land Unit that has its type changed to Aether by this
> procedure,
> > the player who most recently changed the Land Type of any Land Unit such
> > that it is an element of the Full Group of the transformed Land Unit or
> > adjacent to any of the Land Units of the Full Group of the transformed
> Land
> > Unit, among the players who aren't Cartographor, receives 2 coins and 1
> > apple.
> >
> > [Cartographor can time the transfiguration however e wants, it wouldn't
> be
> > fair for em to get a reward for capturing. Alternatively, we could make
> it
> > so that the transfiguration happens automatically and e just announces
> the
> > results]
>
>
> Actually, the way it's written, it takes place at the very beginning of the
> second Eastman week so I can't rig it. I'm just supposed to report it.
>
> ~Corona
> >
>


DIS: Re: BUS: No Go - Proposal

2018-05-05 Thread Corona
On second thought, I'll change the reward to 3 coins, 3 apples/Land Unit,
as you can expend a lot of apples trying to capture even a single Land
Unit. Or maybe give a bonus for facilities destroyed (40% of total cost)?

~Corona

On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Corona <liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, nobody plays Go on Arcadia, preferring ease of movement instead.
> Boring!
>
> I create the proposal "go, Go!" with the following text; text enclosed in
> square brackets is not part of the proposal:
>
> [This proposal implements a 2 coin, 1 apple reward for each captured stone,
> possibly livening up the board]
>
> Amend the rule 1998 "Land Topology" to read in full:
>
> Two Units of Land are Adjacent if they have the same Latitude, and their
> Longitudes differ by exactly one; or they have the same Longitude, and
> their Latitudes differ by exactly one.
>
> Land Unit A is said to be connected to Land Unit B if it is possible to
> reach B by moving only to adjacent Land Units of the same Land Type,
> starting from A.
>
> [Here I changed color to Land Type, as color is not defined. So far, it
> didn't break anything, as no LUs were to be changed into Aether]
>
> A set Land Units is said to be a Group if all of these Land Units have the
> same Land Type are connected to each other and have the same Land Type.
>
> A Group is said to be a Full Group if no set exists such that:
> 1) Its elements are all Land Units of that Group and at least one Land Unit
> not an element of that Group.
> 2) It is a Group.
>
> [Full Group = a group of stones in Go]
>
> Amend the rule 2022 "Land Transfiguration" so that the first item in the
> list reads, in full:
>
> 1. Every Land Unit, with a preservation switch of False that is not
> directly connected to a unit of Aether, or is not connected by its own type
> to a unit of Aether, shall be transformed to Aether.
>
> For every Land Unit that has its type changed to Aether by this procedure,
> the player who most recently changed the Land Type of any Land Unit such
> that it is an element of the Full Group of the transformed Land Unit or
> adjacent to any of the Land Units of the Full Group of the transformed Land
> Unit, among the players who aren't Cartographor, receives 2 coins and 1
> apple.
>
> [Cartographor can time the transfiguration however e wants, it wouldn't be
> fair for em to get a reward for capturing. Alternatively, we could make it
> so that the transfiguration happens automatically and e just announces the
> results]
>
>
> ~Corona
>


Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] The Map of Arcadia -- May 4, 2018

2018-05-05 Thread Corona
I think it looks okay; the border between aether and non-aether is a bit
subtle, but it works.

~Corona

On Sat, May 5, 2018 at 7:56 AM, Reuben Staley <reuben.sta...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks for the suggestions! Here's what I came up with. I decided on the
> colon (:) character for non-aether land units because it looks a bit like
> the period (.) but clearly has more substance to it. Although, I'm not sure
> if I really like this because it might be too easy to confuse the two,
> especially when you have a 13x13 grid. Feedback please?
>
>LONGITUDE   LONGITUDE   LONGITUDE
>
>- 6543210123456 +   - 6543210123456 +   - 6543210123456 +
>   - - - - - -
>   6  .  6 6  .  6 6  .  6
>   5  .  5 5  .  5 5  .  5
>   4  .  4 4  .  4 4  .  4
>   3  .  3  L  3  .  3  L  3  .  3
>   2  .  2  A  2  .  2  A  2  .  2
>   1  wwwbb  1  T  1  a###K  1  T  1  :1:2:  1
>   0  wwgbb  0  I  0  T###C  0  I  0  5  0
>   1  ...wwwbbbw...  1  T  1  ...:C###AM...  1  T  1  ...:73:4:8...  1
>   2  w  2  U  2  ::GC:  2  U  2  ::96:  2
>   3  .bb..  3  D  3  .::..  3  D  3  .::..  3
>   4  ..b..  4  E  4  ..:..  4  E  4  ..:..  4
>   5  ..b..  5 5  ..:..  5 5  ..:..  5
>   6  ..bb.  6 6  ..::.  6 6  ..::.  6
>   + + + + + +
>- 6543210123456 +   - 6543210123456 +- 6543210123456 +
>
>   LAND  TYPE   OWNERSHIP   FACILITIES
>-   --
>aether(.)   AgoraAether(.)
>white (w) Aether  (.)Non-Aether(:)
>black (b) Non-Aether  (:)
>gray  (g) Preserved   (#)See next section
>Gaelan(a)for key
>    Kenyon(K)
>Trigon(T)
>Corona(C)
>Aris  (A)
>ATMunn(M)
>G.(G)
>
>
> On 05/04/2018 07:03 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I really like the side by side layout!  Looks really nice overall.  A
>> couple suggestions:
>>
>> 1.  Since "preservation" land is always owned by agora, you can combine
>> the ownership and preservation maps, something like:
>>
>>- 6543210123456 +
>>>   - -
>>>   6  .  6
>>>   5  .  5
>>>   4  .  4
>>>L  3  .  3  L
>>>A  2  .  2  A
>>>T  1  a###K  1  T
>>>I  0  T###C  0  I
>>>T  1  C###AM...  1  T
>>>U  2  ..GC.  2  U
>>>D  3  .  3  D
>>>E  4  .  4  E
>>>   5  .  5
>>>   6  .  6
>>>   + +
>>>- 6543210123456 +
>>>
>>
>> 2. It might be nice to see the outline of aether/nonether on more of
>> the maps, to help line up the different maps, e.g. maybe like:
>>
>>- 6543210123456 +
>>>   - -
>>>   6  .  6
>>>   5  .  5
>>>   4  .  4
>>>L  3  .  3  L
>>>A  2  .  2  A
>>>T  1  -1-2-  1  T
>>>I  0  -5...  0  I
>>>T  1  73-4-3...  1  T
>>>U  2  .-96--...  2  U
>>>D  3  ..-..  3  D
>>>E  4  ..-..  4  E
>>>   5  ..-..  5
>>>   6  ..--.  6
>>>   + +
>>>- 6543210123456 +
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> --
> Trigon
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: using my sad, single land unit

2018-05-04 Thread Corona
​1) You have so many apples because everyone got 20 to begin with and you
got nichdel's.

​2) You can build on someone else's land, even without permission, but you
can't upgrade (no matter whether you have permission or not), and they can
destroy it by announcement.

3) Why did you (like Trigon) build a farm first, if I may ask? IMO, the
apples from an orchard are sufficient for movement, and cotton is useless
if you don't have a loom and you'd be well-advised to build a refinery (or
get access to one) before that, as a loom requires coins...

(My favorite "build order": mine+orchard->refinery->farm+loom->temple+mill)


~Corona

On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 3:26 PM, ATMunn <iamingodsa...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Speaking of nichdel, however, it seems I get some more free stuff from em.
>
> I act on behalf of nichdel to transfer all eir assets to me.
>
> [ATTN Corona: updated balances: 32 apples, 49 coins, 12 paper]
>
>
> On 5/4/2018 9:21 AM, ATMunn wrote:
>
>> Just realized I'm a fool because I could have used nichdel to build it
>> and then I wouldn't have spent so many apples. Oh well. (although, could I
>> have done that? can you even build on someone else's land?)
>>
>> On 5/4/2018 9:17 AM, ATMunn wrote:
>>
>>> I destroy an apple to move to (0, -1).
>>> I destroy an apple to move to (1, -1).
>>> I destroy two apples to move to (1, 0).
>>> I destroy an apple to move to (1, 1).
>>> I destroy an apple to move to (1, 2).
>>> I destroy two apples to move to (1, 3).
>>> [I seem to have a lot of apples.]
>>>
>>> I destroy 3 lumber and 4 stones for the purpose of building a farm at
>>> (1, 3).
>>>
>>> [ATTN Corona: updated balances: 6 stones, 27 apples, 7 lumber]
>>>
>>


Re: DIS: Test

2018-05-03 Thread Corona
*HTML preformatted style, perhaps?*


*+---++++---+++++++
*
*|Entity
|Ston|Appl|Corn|Ore|Lmbr|Cotn|Coin|Papr|Fabr|Incs| *
*+---++++---+++++++
*
*|ATMunn |  10|  35|   0|  0|  10|   0|  39|  10|
0|   5| *
*|Aris   |   5|  25|   7|  0|   5|   0|  77|   5|
0|   5| *
*|Corona |  24|  40|  21| 17|   9|  18|  89|  16|
0|   5| *
*|CuddleBeam |  11|  13|   9|  4|   8|   9|  40|   8|
0|   5| *
*|G. |  20|  90|  11|  0|  20|   0| 140|  29|
0|   5| *
*|Gaelan |  14|  23|   2|  6|   2|   0|  37|   8|
0|   5| *
*|Kenyon |  14|  32|   4|  6|  20|   3|  35|   7|
0|   5| *
*|Murphy |   5|  25|   4|  0|   8|   0|  60|   9|
0|   5| *
*|Publius Scribonius Scholasticus|   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  10|   2|
0|   0| *
*|Quazie |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0| *
*|Telnaior   |   5|  25|   3|  0|   5|   0|  55|   9|
0|   0| *
*|Trigon |   3|  20|  11|  2|   4|  12|  28|   6|
0|   5| *
*|VJ Rada|  10|  45|   1|  0|  10|   0|  55|  15|
0|   5| *
*|nichdel|   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  10|   2|
0|   0| *
*|o  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0| *
*|omd|   0|  10|   0|  0|   0|   0|  20|   4|
0|   0| *
*|Ouri   |   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  14|   2|
0|   5| *
*|pokes  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0| *
*|天火狐  |   5|  25|   0|  0|   5|   0|  40|   9|
0|   5| *
*+---++++---+++++++
*
*|farm at 1,-1   |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0| *
*|mine at -1,-1  |   3|   0|   0|  2|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0| *
*|mine at 1,1|   3|   0|   0|  2|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0| *
*|orchard at -1,1|   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0| *
*|(Corona’s) mine at 0,2 |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0| *
*|(Corona’s) refinery at 1,-2|   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0| *
*|(Corona’s) orchard at 2,1  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0| *
*|Finger Pointing Workaround |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   1|   0|
0|   0| *
*|Agora  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0| 174|   0|
0|   0| *
*+---++++---+++++++*

+---++++---+++++++
|Entity
|Ston|Appl|Corn|Ore|Lmbr|Cotn|Coin|Papr|Fabr|Incs|
+---++++---+++++++
|ATMunn |  10|  35|   0|  0|  10|   0|  39|  10|
0|   5|
|Aris   |   5|  25|   7|  0|   5|   0|  77|   5|
0|   5|
|Corona |  24|  40|  21| 17|   9|  18|  89|  16|
0|   5|
|CuddleBeam |  11|  13|   9|  4|   8|   9|  40|   8|
0|   5|
|G. |  20|  90|  11|  0|  20|   0| 140|  29|
0|   5|
|Gaelan |  14|  23|   2|  6|   2|   0|  37|   8|
0|   5|
|Kenyon |  14|  32|   4|  6|  20|   3|  35|   7|
0|   5|
|Murphy |   5|  25|   4|  0|   8|   0|  60|   9|
0|   5|
|Publius Scribonius Scholasticus|   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  10|   2|
0|   0|
|Quazie |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|
|Telnaior   |   5|  25|   3|  0|   5|   0|  55|   9|
0|   0|
|Trigon |   3|  20|  11|  2|   4|  12|  28|   6|
0|   5|
|VJ Rada|  10|  45|   1|  0|  10|   0|  55|  15|
0|   5|
|nichdel|   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  10|   2|
0|   0|
|o  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|
|omd|   0|  10|   0|  0|   0|   0|  20|   4|
0|   0|
|Ouri   |   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  14|   2|
0|   5|
|pokes  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|
|天火狐  |   5|  25|   0|  0|   5|   0|  40|   9|   0|
5|
+---++++---+++++++
|farm at 1,-1   |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|
|mine at -1,-1  |   3|   0|   0|  2|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|
|mine at 1,1|   3|   0|   0|  2|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|
|orchard at -1,1|   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|
|(Corona’s) mine at 0,2

Re: DIS: Test

2018-05-03 Thread Corona
Why... How do you all make the tables???

(Let me try reposting Gaelan's previous report)

+---++++---++++++
|*Entity |Ston|Appl|Corn|Ore|Lmbr|Cotn|Coin|Papr|Fabr|
*+---++++---++++++
|*ATMunn |   5|  15|   0|  0|   5|   0|  20|   3|   0|
*|*Aris   |   5|  20|   4|  0|   5|   0|  50|   7|   0|
*|*Corona |  11|  14|   2|  4|   5|   0|  45|   6|   0|
*|*CuddleBeam |  11|   8|   9|  4|   8|   9|  30|   6|   0|
*|*G. |   5|  20|   5|  0|   5|   0|  55|   6|   0|
*|*Gaelan |   5|  20|   1|  0|   2|   0|  35|   6|   0|
*|*Kenyon |  14|  21|   3|  6|  14|   3|  30|   7|   0|
*|*Murphy |   5|  20|   4|  0|   8|   0|  50|   7|   0|
*|*Publius Scribonius Scholasticus|   5|  20|   0|  0|   5|   0|  30|   7|   0|
*|*Quazie |   5|  20|   0|  0|   5|   0|  30|   7|   0|
*|*Telnaior   |   5|  20|   2|  0|   5|   0|  40|   7|   0|
*|*Trigon |   5|  20|   1|  0|   5|   0|  30|   7|   0|
*|*VJ Rada|   5|  20|   0|  0|   5|   0|  30|   7|   0|
*|*nichdel|   5|  20|   0|  0|   5|   0|  30|   7|   0|
*|*o  |   5|  20|   2|  0|   5|   0|  40|   7|   0|
*|*omd|   5|  20|   0|  0|   5|   0|  30|   7|   0|
*|*pokes  |   5|  20|   0|  0|   5|   0|  30|   7|   0|
*|*天火狐 |   5|  20|   0|  0|   5|   0|  30|   7|   0|
*|*farm at 1,-1   |   0|   0|   6|  0|   0|   6|   0|   0|   0|
*|*mine at -1,-1  |   9|   0|   0|  6|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
*|*mine at 1,1|   6|   0|   0|  4|   0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
*|*orchard at -1,1|   0|   6|   0|  0|   6|   0|   0|   0|   0|
*+---++++---++++++





~Corona

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 9:14 PM, Corona <liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Testing the tables
>
>
> +---++++---++---
> -+++++
> |Entity
> |Ston|Appl|Corn|Ore|Lmbr|Cotn|Coin|Papr|Fabr|Incs|
> +---++++---++---
> -+++++
> |ATMunn |  10|  35|   0|  0|  10|   0|  39|  10|
> 0|   5|
> |Aris   |   5|  25|   7|  0|   5|   0|  77|   5|
> 0|   5|
> |Corona |  24|  40|  21| 17|   9|  18|  89|  16|
> 0|   5|
> |CuddleBeam |  11|  13|   9|  4|   8|   9|  40|   8|
> 0|   5|
> |G. |  20|  90|  11|  0|  20|   0| 140|  29|
> 0|   5|
> |Gaelan |  14|  23|   2|  6|   2|   0|  37|   8|
> 0|   5|
> |Kenyon |  14|  32|   4|  6|  20|   3|  35|   7|
> 0|   5|
> |Murphy |   5|  25|   4|  0|   8|   0|  60|   9|
> 0|   5|
> |Publius Scribonius Scholasticus|   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  10|   2|
> 0|   0|
> |Quazie |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> 0|   0|
> |Telnaior   |   5|  25|   3|  0|   5|   0|  55|   9|
> 0|   0|
> |Trigon |   3|  20|  11|  2|   4|  12|  28|   6|
> 0|   5|
> |VJ Rada|  10|  45|   1|  0|  10|   0|  55|  15|
> 0|   5|
> |nichdel|   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  10|   2|
> 0|   0|
> |o  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> 0|   0|
> |omd|   0|  10|   0|  0|   0|   0|  20|   4|
> 0|   0|
> |Ouri   |   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  14|   2|
> 0|   5|
> |pokes  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> 0|   0|
> |天火狐  |   5|  25|   0|  0|   5|   0|  40|   9|   0|
> 5|
> +---++++---++---
> -+++++
> |farm at 1,-1   |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> 0|   0|
> |mine at -1,-1  |   3|   0|   0|  2|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> 0|   0|
> |mine at 1,1|   3|   0|   0|  2|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> 0|   0|
> |orchard at -1,1|   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> 0|   0|
> |(Corona’s) mine at 0,2 |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> 0|   0|
> |(Corona’s) refinery at 1,-2|   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> 0|   0|
> |(Corona’s) orchard at 2,1  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|  

DIS: Test

2018-05-03 Thread Corona
Testing the tables


+---++++---+++++++
|Entity
|Ston|Appl|Corn|Ore|Lmbr|Cotn|Coin|Papr|Fabr|Incs|
+---++++---+++++++
|ATMunn |  10|  35|   0|  0|  10|   0|  39|  10|
0|   5|
|Aris   |   5|  25|   7|  0|   5|   0|  77|   5|
0|   5|
|Corona |  24|  40|  21| 17|   9|  18|  89|  16|
0|   5|
|CuddleBeam |  11|  13|   9|  4|   8|   9|  40|   8|
0|   5|
|G. |  20|  90|  11|  0|  20|   0| 140|  29|
0|   5|
|Gaelan |  14|  23|   2|  6|   2|   0|  37|   8|
0|   5|
|Kenyon |  14|  32|   4|  6|  20|   3|  35|   7|
0|   5|
|Murphy |   5|  25|   4|  0|   8|   0|  60|   9|
0|   5|
|Publius Scribonius Scholasticus|   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  10|   2|
0|   0|
|Quazie |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|
|Telnaior   |   5|  25|   3|  0|   5|   0|  55|   9|
0|   0|
|Trigon |   3|  20|  11|  2|   4|  12|  28|   6|
0|   5|
|VJ Rada|  10|  45|   1|  0|  10|   0|  55|  15|
0|   5|
|nichdel|   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  10|   2|
0|   0|
|o  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|
|omd|   0|  10|   0|  0|   0|   0|  20|   4|
0|   0|
|Ouri   |   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  14|   2|
0|   5|
|pokes  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|
|天火狐  |   5|  25|   0|  0|   5|   0|  40|   9|   0|
5|
+---++++---+++++++
|farm at 1,-1   |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|
|mine at -1,-1  |   3|   0|   0|  2|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|
|mine at 1,1|   3|   0|   0|  2|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|
|orchard at -1,1|   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|
|(Corona’s) mine at 0,2 |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|
|(Corona’s) refinery at 1,-2|   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|
|(Corona’s) orchard at 2,1  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|
|Finger Pointing Workaround |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   1|   0|
0|   0|
|Agora  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0| 174|   0|
0|   0|
+---++++---+++++++

+---++++---+++++++
|Entity
|Ston|Appl|Corn|Ore|Lmbr|Cotn|Coin|Papr|Fabr|Incs|
+---++++---+++++++
|ATMunn |  10|  35|   0|  0|  10|   0|  39|  10|
0|   5|
|Aris   |   5|  25|   7|  0|   5|   0|  77|   5|
0|   5|
|Corona |  24|  40|  21| 17|   9|  18|  89|  16|
0|   5|
|CuddleBeam |  11|  13|   9|  4|   8|   9|  40|   8|
0|   5|
|G. |  20|  90|  11|  0|  20|   0| 140|  29|
0|   5|
|Gaelan |  14|  23|   2|  6|   2|   0|  37|   8|
0|   5|
|Kenyon |  14|  32|   4|  6|  20|   3|  35|   7|
0|   5|
|Murphy |   5|  25|   4|  0|   8|   0|  60|   9|
0|   5|
|Publius Scribonius Scholasticus|   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  10|   2|
0|   0|
|Quazie |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|
|Telnaior   |   5|  25|   3|  0|   5|   0|  55|   9|
0|   0|
|Trigon |   3|  20|  11|  2|   4|  12|  28|   6|
0|   5|
|VJ Rada|  10|  45|   1|  0|  10|   0|  55|  15|
0|   5|
|nichdel|   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  10|   2|
0|   0|
|o  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|
|omd|   0|  10|   0|  0|   0|   0|  20|   4|
0|   0|
|Ouri   |   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  14|   2|
0|   5|
|pokes  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|
|天火狐  |   5|  25|   0|  0|   5|   0|  40|   9|   0|
   5|
+---++++---+++++++
|farm at 1,-1   |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|
|mine at -1,-1  |   3|   0|   0|  2|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|
|mine at 1,1|   3|   0|   0|  2|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|
|orchard at -1,1|   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|
|(Corona’s) mine at 0,2 |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|
|(Corona’s) refinery at 1,-2|   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Treasuror] Forbes 500

2018-05-03 Thread Corona
(Or you can vote for entering the judgement into moot if you want)

~Corona

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 9:08 PM, Corona <liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Sorry, G. judged that pa​ying without recipient doesn't mean transferring
> to anyone but it means destruction (see below), so you didn't pay (you
> would have attempted to transfer to Aris, right?) I'm for a proposal to
> give you the farm back.
>
>
> Oh heck, if there's a time for a political power play in pursuit of the
> greater good, it's now.
>
> I issue a Cabinet Order of Certiorari (Arbitor) to assign the below case
> to myself.
>
> I deliver the following judgement:
> FALSE, based on the Caller's Arguments for FALSE.
>
> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > I CFJ on:  If the Rules say you CAN do something by paying assets,
> without
> > specifying a destination for the payment, you CAN do it by transferring
> > those assets to anyone.
> >
> > Arguments:
> >
> > Straightforward argument for TRUE:
> > R2166 overrides common definitions by making "pay" a synonym for
> transfer:
> > >  An asset generally CAN be transferred (syn. paid, given) by
> > >  announcement by its owner to another entity, subject to
> > >  modification by its backing document.
> >
> > Straightforward argument for FALSE:
> > Payments without destination are error-trapped by this later clause in
> > R2166:
> > >   If a rule, proposal, or other
> > >  competent authority attempts to increase or decrease the balance
> > >  of an entity without specifying a source or destination, then the
> > >  currency is created or destroyed as needed.
> > so if "payment without destination" is a method in the rules for doing
> > something, it happens via asset destruction only (not transfer).
> >
>
>
> ~Corona
>
> On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 9:03 PM, Reuben Staley <reuben.sta...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Where's my farm though? I"paid" upkeep to the best of my ability.
>>
>> On Thu, May 3, 2018, 10:52 Corona <liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > I deputize for the Treasuror to post the following report. Please check
>> > your actions and balances.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > +---++++---++---
>> -+++++
>> >
>> > |Entity
>> > |Ston|Appl|Corn|Ore|Lmbr|Cotn|Coin|Papr|Fabr|Incs|
>> >
>> >
>> > +---++++---++---
>> -+++++
>> >
>> > |ATMunn |  10|  35|   0|  0|  10|   0|  39|  10|
>> > 0|   5|
>> >
>> > |Aris   |   5|  25|   7|  0|   5|   0|  77|   5|
>> > 0|   5|
>> >
>> > |Corona |  24|  40|  21| 17|   9|  18|  89|  16|
>> > 0|   5|
>> >
>> > |CuddleBeam |  11|  13|   9|  4|   8|   9|  40|   8|
>> > 0|   5|
>> >
>> > |G. |  20|  90|  11|  0|  20|   0| 140|  29|
>> > 0|   5|
>> >
>> > |Gaelan |  14|  23|   2|  6|   2|   0|  37|   8|
>> > 0|   5|
>> >
>> > |Kenyon |  14|  32|   4|  6|  20|   3|  35|   7|
>> > 0|   5|
>> >
>> > |Murphy |   5|  25|   4|  0|   8|   0|  60|   9|
>> > 0|   5|
>> >
>> > |Publius Scribonius Scholasticus|   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  10|   2|
>> > 0|   0|
>> >
>> > |Quazie |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
>> > 0|   0|
>> >
>> > |Telnaior   |   5|  25|   3|  0|   5|   0|  55|   9|
>> > 0|   0|
>> >
>> > |Trigon |   3|  20|  11|  2|   4|  12|  28|   6|
>> > 0|   5|
>> >
>> > |VJ Rada|  10|  45|   1|  0|  10|   0|  55|  15|
>> > 0|   5|
>> >
>> > |nichdel|   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  10|   2|
>> > 0|   0|
>> >
>> > |o  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
>> > 0|   0|
>> >
>> > |omd|   0|  10|   0|  0|   0|   0|  20|   4|
>> > 0|   0|
>> >
>> > |Ouri   |   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  14|   2|
>> > 0|   5|
>> >
>

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Treasuror] Forbes 500

2018-05-03 Thread Corona
Sorry, G. judged that pa​ying without recipient doesn't mean transferring
to anyone but it means destruction (see below), so you didn't pay (you
would have attempted to transfer to Aris, right?) I'm for a proposal to
give you the farm back.


Oh heck, if there's a time for a political power play in pursuit of the
greater good, it's now.

I issue a Cabinet Order of Certiorari (Arbitor) to assign the below case
to myself.

I deliver the following judgement:
FALSE, based on the Caller's Arguments for FALSE.

On Mon, 30 Apr 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> I CFJ on:  If the Rules say you CAN do something by paying assets, without
> specifying a destination for the payment, you CAN do it by transferring
> those assets to anyone.
>
> Arguments:
>
> Straightforward argument for TRUE:
> R2166 overrides common definitions by making "pay" a synonym for transfer:
> >  An asset generally CAN be transferred (syn. paid, given) by
> >  announcement by its owner to another entity, subject to
> >  modification by its backing document.
>
> Straightforward argument for FALSE:
> Payments without destination are error-trapped by this later clause in
> R2166:
> >   If a rule, proposal, or other
> >  competent authority attempts to increase or decrease the balance
> >  of an entity without specifying a source or destination, then the
> >  currency is created or destroyed as needed.
> so if "payment without destination" is a method in the rules for doing
> something, it happens via asset destruction only (not transfer).
>


~Corona

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 9:03 PM, Reuben Staley <reuben.sta...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Where's my farm though? I"paid" upkeep to the best of my ability.
>
> On Thu, May 3, 2018, 10:52 Corona <liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I deputize for the Treasuror to post the following report. Please check
> > your actions and balances.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > +---++++---++---
> -+++++
> >
> > |Entity
> > |Ston|Appl|Corn|Ore|Lmbr|Cotn|Coin|Papr|Fabr|Incs|
> >
> >
> > +---++++---++---
> -+++++
> >
> > |ATMunn |  10|  35|   0|  0|  10|   0|  39|  10|
> > 0|   5|
> >
> > |Aris   |   5|  25|   7|  0|   5|   0|  77|   5|
> > 0|   5|
> >
> > |Corona |  24|  40|  21| 17|   9|  18|  89|  16|
> > 0|   5|
> >
> > |CuddleBeam |  11|  13|   9|  4|   8|   9|  40|   8|
> > 0|   5|
> >
> > |G. |  20|  90|  11|  0|  20|   0| 140|  29|
> > 0|   5|
> >
> > |Gaelan |  14|  23|   2|  6|   2|   0|  37|   8|
> > 0|   5|
> >
> > |Kenyon |  14|  32|   4|  6|  20|   3|  35|   7|
> > 0|   5|
> >
> > |Murphy |   5|  25|   4|  0|   8|   0|  60|   9|
> > 0|   5|
> >
> > |Publius Scribonius Scholasticus|   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  10|   2|
> > 0|   0|
> >
> > |Quazie |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> > 0|   0|
> >
> > |Telnaior   |   5|  25|   3|  0|   5|   0|  55|   9|
> > 0|   0|
> >
> > |Trigon |   3|  20|  11|  2|   4|  12|  28|   6|
> > 0|   5|
> >
> > |VJ Rada|  10|  45|   1|  0|  10|   0|  55|  15|
> > 0|   5|
> >
> > |nichdel|   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  10|   2|
> > 0|   0|
> >
> > |o  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> > 0|   0|
> >
> > |omd|   0|  10|   0|  0|   0|   0|  20|   4|
> > 0|   0|
> >
> > |Ouri   |   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  14|   2|
> > 0|   5|
> >
> > |pokes  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> > 0|   0|
> >
> > |天火狐  |   5|  25|   0|  0|   5|   0|  40|   9|
>  0|
> > 5|
> >
> >
> > +---++++---++---
> -+++++
> >
> > |farm at 1,-1   |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> > 0|   0|
> >
> > |mine at -1,-1  |   3|   0|   0|  2|   0|   0|   0|   0|
> > 0|   0|
> >
> > |m

DIS: Re: OFF: [Treasuror] Forbes 500

2018-05-03 Thread Corona
​​
​Looks like I didn't send that message ​in a monospaced font. Those
affected could peruse this table:



+---++++---+++++++

|Entity
|Ston|Appl|Corn|Ore|Lmbr|Cotn|Coin|Papr|Fabr|Incs|

+---++++---+++++++

|ATMunn |  10|  35|   0|  0|  10|   0|  39|  10|
0|   5|

|Aris   |   5|  25|   7|  0|   5|   0|  77|   5|
0|   5|

|Corona |  24|  40|  21| 17|   9|  18|  89|  16|
0|   5|

|CuddleBeam |  11|  13|   9|  4|   8|   9|  40|   8|
0|   5|

|G. |  20|  90|  11|  0|  20|   0| 140|  29|
0|   5|

|Gaelan |  14|  23|   2|  6|   2|   0|  37|   8|
0|   5|

|Kenyon |  14|  32|   4|  6|  20|   3|  35|   7|
0|   5|

|Murphy |   5|  25|   4|  0|   8|   0|  60|   9|
0|   5|

|Publius Scribonius Scholasticus|   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  10|   2|
0|   0|

|Quazie |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|

|Telnaior   |   5|  25|   3|  0|   5|   0|  55|   9|
0|   0|

|Trigon |   3|  20|  11|  2|   4|  12|  28|   6|
0|   5|

|VJ Rada|  10|  45|   1|  0|  10|   0|  55|  15|
0|   5|

|nichdel|   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  10|   2|
0|   0|

|o  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|

|omd|   0|  10|   0|  0|   0|   0|  20|   4|
0|   0|

|Ouri   |   0|   5|   0|  0|   0|   0|  14|   2|
0|   5|

|pokes  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|

|天火狐  |   5|  25|   0|  0|   5|   0|  40|   9|   0|
5|

+---++++---+++++++

|farm at 1,-1   |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|

|mine at -1,-1  |   3|   0|   0|  2|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|

|mine at 1,1|   3|   0|   0|  2|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|

|orchard at -1,1|   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|

|(Corona’s) mine at 0,2 |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|

|(Corona’s) refinery at 1,-2|   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|

|(Corona’s) orchard at 2,1  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   0|   0|
0|   0|

|Finger Pointing Workaround |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0|   1|   0|
0|   0|

|Agora  |   0|   0|   0|  0|   0|   0| 174|   0|
0|   0|

+---++++---+++++++



The following abbreviations are used in the table above:

Ston = stone

Appl = apples

Lmbr = lumber

Cotn = cotton

Coin = coins

Papr = papers

Fabr = fabric

Incs = incense



Recent changes (most recent first, times in UTC, non-self-ratifying):

[Thu May 3 16:32:22] Corona, via Quazie, looted (1,-1) (acquiring 18 corn &
18 cotton), destroying 1 apple

[Thu May 3 13:10:20] ATMunn transferred 1 coin to “Finger Pointing
Workaround” for upkeep

[Wed May 2 06:16:07] Aris destroyed a paper to pend “Crystals v2”

[Tue May 1 06:22:41] If eir scam was successful (FALSE), Corona would have
destroyed some stuff

[Tue May 1 00:11:29] G. caused o to transfer all eir (liquid) assets to
emself, pokes to transfer all eir assets to omd

[Sun Apr 01 00:00] new month begins (payday). Trigon’s farm is, sadly,
destroyed due to em failing to pay upkeep

[Mon Apr 30 21:50:05] Corona collected assets from eir facilities and paid
upkeep for them (totalling 6 coins, 2 stones and 2 lumber, and destroying 3
apples to move)

[Mon Apr 30 06:45:43] Trigon looted (-1,1), using 1 corn to move

[Mon Apr 30 00:25:19] ATMunn pended “no more zombies” with 1 paper

[Mon Apr 30 00:00] new week begins (assets are produced in facilities)

[Sun Apr 29 23:18:37] Trigon may have performed the below actions here,
nobody CFJed it

[Sun Apr 29 22:52:44] Trigon looted (0,-2) (acquiring 6 corn, 6 cotton) and
attempted to loot the empty (1,1) and “if, after performing the enclosed
actions, I would not have any upkeep costs to pay (FALSE): {I transfer 1
lumber and 1 stone to Aris in order to pay my upkeep costs}”. 1 corn & 1
apple were destroyed

[Sun Apr 29 22:22:01] Corona attempted some more pointless asset to and fro
with Quazie, then eir contingency plan kicked in, looting (1,1), moving to
(2,1), building an orchard there & upgrading all eir facilities to rank 2.
E also, via Quazie, put 5 ore in the refinery at (1,-2). Total assets
destroyed: 11 coins, 5 lumber, 5 apples and 9 stones

[Fri Apr 27 23:52:26] A batch of proposals is resolved; VJ Rada gets back
most of his assets (1 coin being given to each FOR voter and 1 coin and 1
paper to the pender); incense is created and each non-z

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Setting up money-printing machine

2018-05-01 Thread Corona
I'm working on a report which will be ready tomorrow or the day after.
Y'all can feel free to post one earlier (or later) though, especially as
it's kind of a mess and I'm not 100% sure I'll have it right.

~Corona

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 1:23 AM, Aris Merchant <
thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Any volunteers?
>
> -Aris
>
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 4:21 PM Ned Strange <edwardostra...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I have all my assets back but I have no idea how many lol. Treasurors
> > are important.
> >
> > On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 9:02 AM, Kerim Aydin <ke...@u.washington.edu>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, 1 May 2018, Corona wrote:
> > >> Consent - Rule 2519, maybe?
> > >
> > > The thing is, I think it requires a contract to pass on act-on-behalf,
> > > and quazie can't consent or sign a contract?  I really dunno.  Someone
> > > else have an idea if one-sided consent be given by some mechanism, that
> > > a zombie can then use?
> > >
> > >> Is that so? I can just destroy the assets myself tomorrow, I'm about
> to
> > >> hit the hay now.
> > >
> > > Thanks for being willing to destroy assets :).  Main concern is if
> things
> > > get so unbalanced it makes land for the next weeks/months unplayable,
> > there
> > > should be a bit of a reset (while still giving you some reasonable
> amount
> > > of nifty profits for finding the loophole).  Genuinely, without any
> > > Treasuror reports I have absolutely no idea where we are, it felt like
> > > that last set of actions crossed the line to needing some reset but
> > IDK...
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 12:01 AM, Kerim Aydin <ke...@u.washington.edu>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Mon, 30 Apr 2018, Corona wrote:
> > >> > > I give consent to Quazie to transfer... assets from any of my
> > facilities
> > >> > > to emself until the end of this month.
> > >> >
> > >> > How do you give consent?
> > >> >
> > >> > But more importantly, this has firmly passed my threshold of abuse
> > too.
> > >> >
> > >> > Corona, once a bug has been pointed out, it's generally considered
> to
> > be
> > >> > poor form to keep exploiting it while fixes are being worked out.
> > >> >
> > >> > Similar in principle to fixing V.J. Rada's contract mistake, I would
> > vote
> > >> > for a range of options that directly strip the gains from Corona due
> > to
> > >> > continued exploitation of this loophole (allowing keeping of the
> first
> > >> > message's gains).  Hard for me to write such a proposal as I haven't
> > been
> > >> > tracking quantities.
> > >> >
> > >> > -G.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > From V.J. Rada
> >
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ re "pay"

2018-05-01 Thread Corona
(how do I always manage to press tab & enter to send a message prematurely?)

It should *be* mostly irrelevant though, I made sure *to* construct &
upgrade the buildings (to a lower level, however) even for the case the
scam didn't work.

~Corona

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 10:18 PM, Corona <liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I support G.'s intent to enter the judgement into Moot. It should mostly
> irrelevant though, I made sure construct & upgrade the buildings even for
> the case the scam didn't work.
>
> ~Corona
>
> On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 8:55 PM, Kerim Aydin <ke...@u.washington.edu>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> That's a neat little trick Aris but maybe not exactly fair :)
>>
>> I intend to enter the below judgement into Moot, with 2 support.
>>
>> SUMMARY:  (especially for Corona's attention).
>>
>> Below, I delivered a judgement that your scam didn't work at all.  But in
>> conversation, there was support for the other side of your argument (that
>> the scam did work).  Unless people generally agree with my reasoning that
>> the scam didn't work (under "argument for FALSE", below), the best way to
>> resolve this is a Moot (i.e. vote on whether my judgement is correct).
>>
>> If you want to take the Moot Route, support my intent...
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018, Aris Merchant wrote:
>> > Well, that's interesting. You're ineligible, but I that isn't a
>> requirement
>> > for using certiorari. The ruling isn't unreasonable, and comports with
>> the
>> > interest of the game. Intend, with both 2 support and Agoran consent, to
>> > enter this judgement into moot. I object to my own intent.
>> >
>> > -Aris
>> >
>> > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 3:10 PM Kerim Aydin <ke...@u.washington.edu>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Oh heck, if there's a time for a political power play in pursuit of
>> the
>> > > greater good, it's now.
>> > >
>> > > I issue a Cabinet Order of Certiorari (Arbitor) to assign the below
>> case
>> > > to myself.
>> > >
>> > > I deliver the following judgement:
>> > > FALSE, based on the Caller's Arguments for FALSE.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, 30 Apr 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>> > > > I CFJ on:  If the Rules say you CAN do something by paying assets,
>> > > without
>> > > > specifying a destination for the payment, you CAN do it by
>> transferring
>> > > > those assets to anyone.
>> > > >
>> > > > Arguments:
>> > > >
>> > > > Straightforward argument for TRUE:
>> > > > R2166 overrides common definitions by making "pay" a synonym for
>> > > transfer:
>> > > > >  An asset generally CAN be transferred (syn. paid, given) by
>> > > > >  announcement by its owner to another entity, subject to
>> > > > >  modification by its backing document.
>> > > >
>> > > > Straightforward argument for FALSE:
>> > > > Payments without destination are error-trapped by this later clause
>> in
>> > > > R2166:
>> > > > >   If a rule, proposal, or other
>> > > > >  competent authority attempts to increase or decrease the
>> balance
>> > > > >  of an entity without specifying a source or destination,
>> then the
>> > > > >  currency is created or destroyed as needed.
>> > > > so if "payment without destination" is a method in the rules for
>> doing
>> > > > something, it happens via asset destruction only (not transfer).
>>
>>
>>
>


DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: Re: [Cartographor] Land Auctions for April week 4

2018-05-01 Thread Corona
I believe this auction has ended, and Quazie's bid was withdrawn due to em
not having sufficient funds.

~Corona

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 4:10 PM, Corona <liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I bid 4 and I act on behalf of Quazie to bid 9 in the ongoing land auction.
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 25, 2018, ATMunn <iamingodsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I bid 2 coins in the ongoing land auction.
>>
>> On 4/25/2018 7:02 AM, Corona wrote:
>>
>>> Oh, just realized that you can't bid on individual lots here. For the
>>> case
>>> that the previous bid didn't work: I act on behalf of Quazie to bid 1
>>> coin
>>> in the ongoing land auction.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 25, 2018, Corona <liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Surely the honorable fellow players will let poor Quazie have the land
>>>> unit, which e would possess anyways were it not for a trivial mistake?
>>>>
>>>> I act on behalf of Quazie to bid 1 coin in the ongoing land auction, on
>>>> its
>>>> sole lot.
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, April 25, 2018, Reuben Staley <reuben.sta...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Just pretend that last message didn't happen.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is currently 1 public, unpreserved, non-aether land unit in
>>>>> existence. It is put up for auction.
>>>>>
>>>>> For the following auction, I am the announcer, Agora is the auctioneer,
>>>>> the minimum bid is 1 coin, and the lots are:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1: the black land unit at (+2, +2)
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Trigon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ~Corona
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
> --
> ~Corona
>
>


Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Proto: Nerf Zombies

2018-05-01 Thread Corona
​*emself; e, sorry​.

~Corona

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 7:48 AM, Corona <liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Doesn't G. have 5 votes by himself? He is PM and has 3 zombies.
>
> ~Corona
>
> On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 1:47 AM, Ned Strange <edwardostra...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I think G and I with our 6 votes between us can block anything, or at
>> least anything with more than 1 AI. Funny.
>>
>> On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 9:45 AM, Aris Merchant
>> <thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Alright. You can consider it weakened in the way I suggested. However,
>> > I need to see which of these changes has has consensus. Anyone else
>> > have an opinion on the matter? I'll save this for next week's
>> > distribution, given that your basic nerf is probably sufficient in the
>> > near term.
>> >
>> > -Aris
>> >
>> >
>> > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 10:15 AM, Kerim Aydin <ke...@u.washington.edu>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Most of them at this point.  There's a few that are worse than others,
>> some
>> >> especially bad for returning zombies (forcing a returning zombie to
>> >> deregister?  what's that about?).  But the version I proposed is what
>> >> I'll personally vote for in this next proposal batch, nothing further.
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018, Aris Merchant wrote:
>> >>> Which provision most bothers you? I might be willing to drop the one
>> zombie
>> >>> limit if it strikes you as reasonable, it's probably unneeded with the
>> >>> dependent actions change. I'd even consider extending the expiration
>> to 90
>> >>> days, although having one just seems like common sense to me. Those
>> are as
>> >>> far as I can tell the only actual restrictions I've added?
>> >>>
>> >>> -Aris
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> From V.J. Rada
>>
>
>


Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Proto: Nerf Zombies

2018-04-30 Thread Corona
Doesn't G. have 5 votes by himself? He is PM and has 3 zombies.

~Corona

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 1:47 AM, Ned Strange <edwardostra...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I think G and I with our 6 votes between us can block anything, or at
> least anything with more than 1 AI. Funny.
>
> On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 9:45 AM, Aris Merchant
> <thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Alright. You can consider it weakened in the way I suggested. However,
> > I need to see which of these changes has has consensus. Anyone else
> > have an opinion on the matter? I'll save this for next week's
> > distribution, given that your basic nerf is probably sufficient in the
> > near term.
> >
> > -Aris
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 10:15 AM, Kerim Aydin <ke...@u.washington.edu>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Most of them at this point.  There's a few that are worse than others,
> some
> >> especially bad for returning zombies (forcing a returning zombie to
> >> deregister?  what's that about?).  But the version I proposed is what
> >> I'll personally vote for in this next proposal batch, nothing further.
> >>
> >> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018, Aris Merchant wrote:
> >>> Which provision most bothers you? I might be willing to drop the one
> zombie
> >>> limit if it strikes you as reasonable, it's probably unneeded with the
> >>> dependent actions change. I'd even consider extending the expiration
> to 90
> >>> days, although having one just seems like common sense to me. Those
> are as
> >>> far as I can tell the only actual restrictions I've added?
> >>>
> >>> -Aris
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
> --
> From V.J. Rada
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Setting up money-printing machine

2018-04-30 Thread Corona
Consent - Rule 2519, maybe?

Is that so? I can just destroy the assets myself tomorrow, I​'m about to
hit the hay now.

~Corona

On Tue, May 1, 2018 at 12:01 AM, Kerim Aydin <ke...@u.washington.edu> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, 30 Apr 2018, Corona wrote:
> > I give consent to Quazie to transfer... assets from any of my facilities
> > to emself until the end of this month.
>
> How do you give consent?
>
> But more importantly, this has firmly passed my threshold of abuse too.
>
> Corona, once a bug has been pointed out, it's generally considered to be
> poor form to keep exploiting it while fixes are being worked out.
>
> Similar in principle to fixing V.J. Rada's contract mistake, I would vote
> for a range of options that directly strip the gains from Corona due to
> continued exploitation of this loophole (allowing keeping of the first
> message's gains).  Hard for me to write such a proposal as I haven't been
> tracking quantities.
>
> -G.
>
>
>
>


Re: DIS: Land Unit Negligence Act

2018-04-30 Thread Corona
This is easily abused by flipping its ownership switch between you and
contract/zombie.
Couldn't an actual economic victory condition encourage building etc.?

~Corona

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 8:21 AM, Reuben Staley <reuben.sta...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I want to get land circulating and used. Therefore, I submit the following
> proto:
>
> Name: Land Unit Negligence Act
> AI: 1
> Author: Trigon
> Co-authors:
>
> Amend rule 2022 by prepending the following list item and adjusting the
> list numbering accordingly.
>
>   1. Transfer all land units that have not had any of their switches
>  flipped, have not had a facility built on them, and/or have not
>  had any of its facility's switches flipped since the last Land
>  Transfiguration event to Agora.
>
> --
> Trigon
>


DIS: Re: BUS: CFJ re "pay"

2018-04-30 Thread Corona
also in the
​"​
doesn't THIS apply to "pay" without a destination?
​"​
thread

~Corona

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 10:34 AM, Ned Strange <edwardostra...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> I call a CFJ with the statement "To "pay" assets is to transfer them to
anyone"
>
> many arguments in the recent Setting up money-printing machine
> discussion thread.
> --
> From V.J. Rada


DIS: Re: BUS: Paying upkeep (also looting)

2018-04-30 Thread Corona
I (unconditionally) looted the mine (1,1) an hour earlier, sorry.

~Corona

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 1:18 AM, Reuben Staley <reuben.sta...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Actually, I think those last actions failed due to undefined terms.
>
> I destroy a corn to travel from to (0, -1), and then to (0, 0), and then
> to (0, +1). I then destroy my apple to go to (+1, +1). I collect all the
> assets from that mine.
>
> On 04/29/2018 04:52 PM, Reuben Staley wrote:
>
>> I take all the assets from where I'm standing.
>>
>> I spend a corn to travel from to (0, -1), and then to (0, 0), and then to
>> (0, +1). I then spend my apple to go to (+1, +1). I collect all the assets
>> from that mine.
>>
>> I own a rank 2 farm, which requires 1 lumber and 1 stone for upkeep,
>> which I must "pay". Ideally, I would destroy these because I don't like
>> being scummy, but since that would not actually pay my costs, I have to
>> transfer assets to someone. But with all the confusion, I'm not sure if it
>> would even succeed. Therefore:
>>
>> If, after performing the enclosed actions, I would not have any upkeep
>> costs to pay, I do so: {I transfer 1 lumber and 1 stone to Aris in order to
>> pay my upkeep costs}.
>>
>>
> --
> --
> Trigon
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Setting up money-printing machine

2018-04-30 Thread Corona
​I'm confused too, that's why I had to do this whole conditional thing, and
I couldn't converge the gamestate, because I bought (using the maybe-scam)
all these upgrades that I can't *actually* pay for by destroying assets.

I favor the "pay w/o destination = transfer to anyone" interpretation,
since a "pretty strong implication" (see the "doesn't THIS apply to "pay"
without a destination?" thread) is not enough to warrant the other
interpretation.

~Corona

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 8:48 AM, Reuben Staley <reuben.sta...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I'm not going to pretend like I'm smart enough to know what we've decided
> to do about the whole pay-without-a-target thing, so if someone wants to
> explain which of these actions happened, I would really appreciate it. If
> there is no solution because there's been no consensus, then someone tell
> me what I should even do for this week's Map. Please and thank you.
>
>
> On 04/29/2018 04:22 PM, Corona wrote:
>
>> Just now I found out that you can upgrade only your own facilities, a bit
>> weird when you consider that you don't even need the owner's consent to
>> build them.
>>
>> I transfer the Land Unit (1,-2), the facility located there, 11 coins, 6
>> lumber and 7 stones to Quazie.
>>
>> #retry free upgrade, in case it works
>>
>> I act on behalf of Quazie to do all actions enclosed within the following
>> curly braces: {
>> Pay 5 of Quazie’s coins, 2 of Quazie’s lumber and 3 of Quazie’s
>> stones to Corona to increase the rank of the refinery at (1,-2) to 2.  Pay
>> 6 of
>> Quazie’s coins, 4 of Quazie’s lumber and 4 of Quazie’s stones to Corona to
>> increase the rank of that refinery to 3. Transfer all of Quazie's assets,
>> except the Land Unit at (1,-2) or the facility located there, to Corona.
>> }
>>
>> ---Contingency Capitalism---
>>
>> If the rank of the mine at (0,2) is exactly 1, I destroy 3 coins and 2
>> lumber to increase its rank to 2.
>>
>> I destroy 2 apples to set the Land Type of the Land Unit (2,1) to Black. I
>> destroy an apple to move to (0,1). I destroy an apple to move to (1,1). I
>> transfer all assets from the facility at (1,1) to myself. I destroy an
>> apple to move to (2,1).
>>
>> I destroy 5 stones to build an orchard at (2,1). I pay 3 coins and 2
>> stones
>> to Quazie to increase the rank of that orchard to 2. I pay 4 coins and 4
>> stones to Quazie to increase the rank of that orchard to 3. I act on
>> behalf
>> of Quazie to transfer all eir assets, except the Land Unit at (1,-2) or
>> the
>> facility located there, to me. If the rank of the orchard at (2,1) is
>> exactly 1, I destroy 3 coins and 2 stones to increase its rank to 2.
>>
>> If the rank of the refinery at at (1,-2) is exactly 1, I perform all
>> actions enclosed within the following curly braces: {
>> I transfer 5 coins, 3 lumber and 2 stones to Quazie. I act on behalf of
>> Quazie to destroy 5 of Quazie's coins, 3 of Quazie's lumber and 2 of
>> Quazie's stones to increase the rank of the refinery at (1,-2) to 2.
>> }
>>
>> I transfer 5 ore to Quazie. I act on behalf of Quazie to transfer 5 of
>> Quazie's ore to the refinery at (1,-2).
>> I act on behalf of Quazie to transfer all of Quazie's assets to myself.
>>
>> ~Corona
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 7:24 AM, Corona <liliumalbum.ag...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hopefully this is not going to fail horribly in some unforeseen way.
>>>
>>> I destroy an apple to move to (0,1). I destroy an apple to move to (0,2).
>>>
>>> I destroy 5 lumber to build a mine at (0,2). I pay 3 coins and 2 lumber
>>> to
>>> Quazie to increase the rank of that mine to 2. I pay 4 coins and 4 lumber
>>> to Quazie to increase the rank of that mine to 3. I pay 5 coins, 4 lumber
>>> and 3 stones to Quazie to increase the rank of that mine to 4.
>>>
>>> I transfer 3 apples and 12 stones to Quazie.
>>>
>>> I act on behalf of Quazie to do all actions enclosed within the following
>>> curly braces: {
>>>
>>> Destroy one of Quazie’s apples to move Quazie to (0,-1). Destroy one of
>>> Quazie’s apples to move Quazie to (1,-1). Destroy one of Quazie’s apples
>>> to
>>> move Quazie to (1,-2).
>>>
>>> Destroy 4 of Quazie’s lumber and 8 of Quazie’s stones to build a refinery
>>> at (1,-2). Pay 5 of Quazie’s coins, 2 of Quazie’s lumber and 3 of
>>> Quazie’s
>>> stones to Corona to increase the rank of that refinery to 2.  Pay 6 of
>>> Quazie’s coins, 4 of Quazie’s lumber and 4 of Quazie’s stones to Corona
>>> to
>>> increase the rank of that refinery to 3.
>>>
>>> Transfer all of Quazie's assets to Corona.
>>>
>>> }
>>>
>>>
>>> ~Corona
>>>
>>>
> --
> Trigon
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Voting on Tailor

2018-04-29 Thread Corona
​Nothing in particular is​ specified in the rule, in practice it's for
scamming/passing a proposal to that effect.

~Corona

On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 8:17 PM, ATMunn <iamingodsa...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Alright. Am I eligible for one of those by the way? I forget what thing
> let people get them.
>
> On 4/29/2018 12:37 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I vote ATMunn for Tailor.
>>
>> ATMunn - you can deputize for the job.  I'm about 99% sure that the only
>> ribbons since the Feb report were this week's black ones.
>>
>> On Sun, 29 Apr 2018, ATMunn wrote:
>>
>>> I vote for myself, obviously.
>>>
>>> [also I guess I better get working on that Python script I talked
>>> about...]
>>>
>>> On 4/29/2018 3:08 AM, Edward Murphy wrote:
>>>
>>>> Per Rule 2154, I initiate an Agoran decision to select the winner of the
>>>> Tailor election. The vote collector is the ADoP, the valid options are
>>>> ATMunn and Corona and anyone else who becomes a candidate, and the
>>>> voting method is instant runoff.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>


Re: BUS: Re: DIS: doesn't THIS apply to "pay" without a destination?

2018-04-28 Thread Corona
​Hmm, does this mean you can arbitrarily destroy indestructible assets by
attempting to transfer them to nobody in particular?

~Corona

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 12:20 AM, Kerim Aydin <ke...@u.washington.edu>
wrote:

>
>
> Ok I looked up competent authority and see how it works in this
> context.  Back to the original point:
>
> The rule here implies that if you attempt to decrease your own
> balance without specifying a destination, the currency is question is
> destroyed. (you are a competent authority for your own holdings).
>
> So if another rule says "you can do X by paying [without
> destination]", then since paying for it is an attempt to decrease
> your balance, that's a pretty strong implication that you do it
> by destroying it.  And if you pay someone else, you're not doing
> what the rule says you need to do.
>
> On Fri, 27 Apr 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > Actually this is may be huge hole.  And I have no idea what "competent
> > authority" means.  I'm an officer - that's pretty authoritative.  And
> > my reports are fairly timely and accurate - that's fairly competent.
> >
> > So.  An attempt.
> >
> > I decrease Corona's coin balance by 1.
> >
> > On Fri, 27 Apr 2018, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > > From Rule 2166/26:
> > >   If a rule, proposal, or other
> > >   competent authority attempts to increase or decrease the balance
> > >   of an entity without specifying a source or destination, then the
> > >   currency is created or destroyed as needed.
> > >
> > > "paying" without a destination attempts to reduce the payer's balance,
> so
> > > it destroys the currency?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>


Re: DIS: Upgrading

2018-04-26 Thread Corona
Well, that would mean that Trigon would inevitably lose eir farm. (e
couldn't pay upkeep)

According to R2125, you must use metho​ds "explicitly specified" in the
rules (which I did, the rule should be IMO interpreted as simply not caring
about the recipient), I don't see anything about rules needing to
"explicitly describe" methods?

If the CFJ is going to be called, I'd like it to be judged till the end of
the week if possible. It's frustrating having buildings or other assets in
an uncertain gamestate.

~Corona

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 6:28 PM, Kerim Aydin <ke...@u.washington.edu> wrote:

>
>
> Really the problem is that defining "pay" = "transfer" is a complete
> redefinition of "pay" from common usage, and everyone's using common
> usage... unfortunately that definition is in a high-powered rule.
>
> BUT:
>
> Does everyone accept that "pay without destination" automatically
> mean "paying anyone" counts?  An alternate interpretation is that,
> if the destination isn't defined, the rule is ambiguous and you
> can't actually pay.  This would be supported by R2125:  "paying"
> without a destination is not an unambiguous way of "explicitly
> describing" a method for doing things.
>
> (I'm not going to call the CFJ unless others think this interpretation
> might work).
>
> On Thu, 26 Apr 2018, Corona wrote:
> > Whoops... (emphasis mine)
> > "
> >   If an entity other than Agora owns any facilities with upkeep
> >   costs, e must pay them before the first day of the next
> Agoran
> >   month. Failing to do this destroys the facility. In the second to
> >   last Eastman week of the Agoran Month, the Cartographor SHOULD
> >   issue a humiliating public reminder to all those who have not paid
> >   upkeep fees on any of eir facilities."
> >
> > ~Corona
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Aris Merchant <
> > thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 6:00 AM Kerim Aydin <ke...@u.washington.edu>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, 26 Apr 2018, Ørjan Johansen wrote:
> > > > > On Thu, 26 Apr 2018, Aris Merchant wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Also, I like the multiset. The wording seems to me to be a clean,
> > > > generic
> > > > >
> > > > > In my intuition, all multisets of assets are currently sets,
> because
> > > > there are
> > > > > no *truly* identity-free assets. But it might be better for other
> > > > people's
> > > > > intuition I guess.
> > > >
> > > > I think, legally, there are identity-free assets, unless I
> misunderstand
> > > > what
> > > > you mean by that?
> > > >
> > > > Corona gives me a coin.  Aris gives me a coin.  I then give a coin to
> > > > Trigon.  There's no way of knowing/tracking/distinguishing whether
> > > Trigon
> > > > now has Corona's coin or Aris's coin.
> > >
> > >
> > > No, Ørjan is probably right. I think the difference is between
> identity and
> > > interchablity. Currencies are interchangeable (well, fungible, which
> means
> > > the same thing) so we can't tell the difference between them, but it
> > > doesn't mean that they don't have identity. As a real world example,
> let's
> > > say you have a penny and I have a penny. Neither of them is marked in
> any
> > > weird way, and be couldn't tell the difference between them. Then I
> use my
> > > penny to pay for something. Your penny hasn't been used to pay for
> > > something, only mine has, so they have separate identity. By contrast,
> if
> > > we both think of the number 1, we're both thinking of the exact same
> > > number, because it's a singleton. Even only currency instances with the
> > > same owner lacked identity, you wouldn't be able to transfer a paper
> > > without transferring all of it. This works fine so long as the set of
> > > assets is clearly described as a set of instances, because asset types
> are
> > > definitely singletons.
> > >
> > > -Aris
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>


Re: DIS: Upgrading

2018-04-26 Thread Corona
Whoops... (emphasis mine)
"
  If an entity other than Agora owns any facilities with upkeep
  costs, e must pay them before the first day of the next Agoran
  month. Failing to do this destroys the facility. In the second to
  last Eastman week of the Agoran Month, the Cartographor SHOULD
  issue a humiliating public reminder to all those who have not paid
  upkeep fees on any of eir facilities."

~Corona

On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Aris Merchant <
thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 6:00 AM Kerim Aydin <ke...@u.washington.edu>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On Thu, 26 Apr 2018, Ørjan Johansen wrote:
> > > On Thu, 26 Apr 2018, Aris Merchant wrote:
> > >
> > > > Also, I like the multiset. The wording seems to me to be a clean,
> > generic
> > >
> > > In my intuition, all multisets of assets are currently sets, because
> > there are
> > > no *truly* identity-free assets. But it might be better for other
> > people's
> > > intuition I guess.
> >
> > I think, legally, there are identity-free assets, unless I misunderstand
> > what
> > you mean by that?
> >
> > Corona gives me a coin.  Aris gives me a coin.  I then give a coin to
> > Trigon.  There's no way of knowing/tracking/distinguishing whether
> Trigon
> > now has Corona's coin or Aris's coin.
>
>
> No, Ørjan is probably right. I think the difference is between identity and
> interchablity. Currencies are interchangeable (well, fungible, which means
> the same thing) so we can't tell the difference between them, but it
> doesn't mean that they don't have identity. As a real world example, let's
> say you have a penny and I have a penny. Neither of them is marked in any
> weird way, and be couldn't tell the difference between them. Then I use my
> penny to pay for something. Your penny hasn't been used to pay for
> something, only mine has, so they have separate identity. By contrast, if
> we both think of the number 1, we're both thinking of the exact same
> number, because it's a singleton. Even only currency instances with the
> same owner lacked identity, you wouldn't be able to transfer a paper
> without transferring all of it. This works fine so long as the set of
> assets is clearly described as a set of instances, because asset types are
> definitely singletons.
>
> -Aris
>
> >
> >
>


DIS: Nerf Zombies

2018-04-26 Thread Corona
I hope you don't hold it against me. My original plan was to build a mine,
orchard & refinery, all at level 2, which I could comfortably buy (so I
would probably become the richest player regardless of the scam, with 28
coins/week & negligible upkeep).

When I was going over the rules to make sure I don't mess up the actions, I
discovered that error, which doesn't even allow me to upgrade the buildings
"normally", otherwise I'd consider doing that. It also affects all players
in the same way, the only difference is that I had lots of assets and land
units before, which is hardly my fault.


@VJ Rada: There is a mistake in a rule that allows you to upgrade
facilities essentially for free, and I did that.


Ad overpowered zombies: The first issue that should be tackled is that
zombies actually don't cost anything, as you receive their money (usually a
welcome package) when you buy them. Like G., I was surprised that the bids
were so low in the zombie auction, considering all the zombies had at least
30 Coins. Quazie would not be nearly so useful to me if I didn't have the
assets to buy all the land units and buildings.

Suggested fix: a player loses all assets when their Master switch is
flipped to Agora. They become eligible to receive a Welcome Package (for
when they start playing again). A player can only receive WPs when eir
Master switch is set to emself.


The second issue raised, zombie master dictatorship, could be fixed by
capping the total zombie vote power at some number, for example:

Suppose that zombie vote power cap = 5, but there are 7 zombies, each with
vote power 1. Each zombie's vote power will then be multiplied by 5/7.

The cap could perhaps be the current Quorum?


On Thursday, April 26, 2018, Aris Merchant <thoughtsoflifeandlight17@
gmail.com> wrote:

> The zombie thing wasn't an immediate response to that part of the scam.
> TBH, I'm really really tired (I've got a cold at the moment), and I missed
> the fact that there was even a scam to start with, thinking instead that it
> was just that it was just somehow too easy to pay for things. I have no
> clue how I did that, I must have just glanced over the text without
> actually reading it. However, the zombie problem still exists, because
> right now e could monopolize all zombie auctions and eventually get a
> dictatorship. It should be near impossible to get a full dictatorship even
> with an infinite wealth scam (a win would be fair, however). I was worrying
> about zombies already too, and these were my thoughts after the scam you
> pulled off a few days ago. The thing about things being to cheap was
> definitely a misapprehension on my part in this case, though I there's
> still some general truth to it. Sorry everyone for the mess up though.
>
> -Aris
>
> On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 11:52 PM Kerim Aydin <ke...@u.washington.edu>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > This scam was due to the pay bug and could have been done (sorta)
> > with contracts too, right?
> >
> > On Thu, 26 Apr 2018, Aris Merchant wrote:
> > > It's clear that zombies are way to powerful and need to be weakened
> > > substantially. Proposed restrictions:
> > >
> > > - 1 zombie per player max
> > > - Zombies can be deregistered by announcement after a month as zombies
> > >
> > > -Aris
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>


-- 
~Corona


Re: DIS: Upgrading

2018-04-25 Thread Corona
So I can pay the assets to Quazie (or myself, though that would be more
legally contestable)? Awesome!

~Corona

On Wed, Apr 25, 2018 at 8:31 PM, Ørjan Johansen <oer...@nvg.ntnu.no> wrote:

> On Wed, 25 Apr 2018, Corona wrote:
>
> I was about to build something, but then I noticed:
>>
>>A player CAN increase the rank of a facility e owns that is at eir
>>  location by exactly 1 by announcement by paying any upgrade costs
>>  of the facility for that specific rank.
>>
>> What does "paying" mean here, if anything? Is it actually possible to
>> upgrade facilities, or is it ill defined and thus broken?
>>
>
> "paid" is a synonym for transferred, defined in rule 2166.
>
> What's broken here is that it doesn't restrict *who* the payment is to...
> which presumably means you can pay to any entity that can accept the assets.
>
> Greetings,
> Ørjan.
>


DIS: Upgrading

2018-04-25 Thread Corona
I was about to build something, but then I noticed:

A player CAN increase the rank of a facility e owns that is at eir
  location by exactly 1 by announcement by paying any upgrade costs
  of the facility for that specific rank.

What does "paying" mean here, if anything? Is it actually possible to
upgrade facilities, or is it ill defined and thus broken?





~Corona


Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Cartographor] The Map of Arcadia -- April 24, 2018

2018-04-25 Thread Corona
Wanna sell? I offer 15 coins.

On Wednesday, April 25, 2018, ATMunn <iamingodsa...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Actually, that was in the single auction, so there's nothing really that I
> could do about that. But it still sucks.
>
> On 4/25/2018 9:18 AM, ATMunn wrote:
>
>> I just realized I've been a total idiot. My one land unit is on the
>> complete other side of the map from me.
>>
>> On 4/25/2018 1:05 AM, Reuben Staley wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> THE MAP OF ARCADIA -- APRIL 16, 2018
>>> View an interactive version of this report here:
>>> https://agoranomic.org/Cartographor/maps/map-2018-04-24.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> LAND TYPE MAP
>>> 
>>>
>>>  LONGITUDE
>>>
>>>  - 6543210123456 +
>>> - -
>>> 6  *  6
>>> 5  *  5aether (*)
>>> 4  *  4(b)lack
>>> L  3  *  3(w)hite
>>> A  2  *  2
>>> T  1  wwwbb  1
>>> I  0  wwbbb  0
>>> T  1  wwbbbw***  1
>>> U  2  **bwb  2
>>> D  3  *  3
>>> E  4  *  4
>>> 5  *  5
>>> 6  *  6
>>> + +
>>>  - 6543210123456 +
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> OWNERSHIP MAP
>>> 
>>>
>>>  LONGITUDE
>>>
>>>  - 6543210123456 +
>>> - -
>>> 6  *  6
>>> 5  *  5Agora, Aether (*)
>>> 4  *  4Agora, Non-Aether (.)
>>> L  3  *  3(G)aelan
>>> A  2  *  2(K)enyon
>>> T  1  G...K  1(T)rigon
>>> I  0  T...C  0(C)orona
>>> T  1  C...AM***  1(A)ris
>>> U  2  **GCQ  2AT(M)unn
>>> D  3  *  3(G).
>>> E  4  *  4(Q)uazie
>>> 5  *  5
>>> 6  *  6
>>> + +
>>>  - 6543210123456 +
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> PRESERVATION MAP
>>> 
>>>
>>>  LONGITUDE
>>>
>>>  - 6543210123456 +
>>> - -
>>> 6  f  6
>>> 5  f  5(t)rue
>>> 4  f  4(f)alse
>>> L  3  f  3
>>> A  2  f  2
>>> T  1  ftttf  1
>>> I  0  ftttf  0
>>> T  1  ftttf  1
>>> U  2  f  2
>>> D  3  f  3
>>> E  4  f  4
>>> 5  f  5
>>> 6  f  6
>>> + +
>>>  - 6543210123456 +
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> FACILITIES
>>> 
>>>
>>> (-1, -1): Preserved Rank 1 Mine, owned by Agora
>>> (-1, +1): Preserved Rank 1 Orchard, owned by Agora
>>> (+1, -1): Preserved Rank 1 Farm, owned by Agora
>>> (+1, +1): Preserved Rank 1 Mine, owned by Agora
>>> ( 0, -2): Rank 2 Farm, owned by Trigon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> LOCATIONS OF ENTITIES
>>> 
>>>
>>> PlayerLast report   This Report
>>> 
>>> omd   ( 0,  0)  ( 0,  0)
>>> o ( 0,  0)  ( 0,  0)
>>> Aris  (-1, -1)  (-1, -1)
>>> DFF[1]( 0,  0)  ( 0,  0)
>>> Quazie(-1, -1)  (-1, -1)
>>> P.S.S.[2] ( 0,  0)  ( 0,  0)
>>> Gaelan(-1, -1)  (-1, -1)
>>> G.( 0,  0)  ( 0,  0)
>>> Cuddle Beam   (-1, -1)  (-1, -1)
>>> Trigon( 0, -2)  ( 0, -2)
>>> Telnaior  ( 0,  0)  ( 0,  0)
>>> Corona(-1, +1)  (-1, +1)
>>> pokes ( 0,  0)  ( 0,  0)
>>> Murphy( 0,  0)  ( 0,  0)
>>> VJ Rada   ( 0,  0)  ( 0,  0)
>>> Kenyon(-1, +1)  (-1, +1)
>>> ATMunn(-1, +1)  (-1, -1)
>>> Ouri  ( 0,  0)  ( 0,  0)
>>>
>>> [1]: In Full, 天火狐
>>> [2]: In Full, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ALTERNATING LAND TYPE
>>> 
>>>
>>> The alternating land type has been switched 4 times.
>>> The current value is Black.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> CHANGES IN LAND TYPE AND OWNERSHIP
>>> 
>>>
>>> Date Unit   FromTo
>>> ---
>>> 2018-04-17   (+1, +2)   Agora   Aris
>>> 2018-04-17   (+1, +3)   Agora   ATMunn
>>> 2018-04-17   (+2,  0)   Agora   G.
>>> 2018-04-17   (+2, +1)   Agora   Corona
>>> 2018-04-17   (+2, +2)   Agora   Quazie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

-- 
~Corona


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