DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Temporary Deputy-ADoP] Initiation of Election for Prime Minister
I vote for Aris, then G. From: agora-business on behalf of Owen Jacobson Sent: Thursday, June 6, 2019 2:51:28 AM To: Agora Nomic - Business Subject: BUS: Re: OFF: [Temporary Deputy-ADoP] Initiation of Election for Prime Minister On Jun 2, 2019, at 8:29 AM, D Margaux wrote: > I temporarily deputise for ADoP to initiate an election for Prime Minister > (for reals this time). > > The valid options are G., Corona, and Aris. > > The vote collector is the ADoP and the voting method is instant runoff. I withdraw any previous vote on this decision. I vote for Aris, then G., then Corona. -o
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Temporary Deputy-ADoP] Initiation of Election for Prime Minister
Hey, I have an election to win here. :)
In all seriousness though, I'd like to make it clear that I'm not
criticizing you. I just want to win (and I do think I have a better
case this time around, but the Agoran public may disagree). To be
honest, it's kind of hard to do a good job or bad job as PM, since the
PM has basically no responsibilities. I think we've done about an
equally good job in our prior terms as the office.
-Aris
On Wed, Jun 5, 2019 at 9:00 AM Kerim Aydin wrote:
>
> After kickstarting stuff from our lull in March, April, I take a
> 3-week vacation and do the right thing by resigning offices instead of
> just letting them lag like seems to be the norm, and I get labelled
> "inactive"? That's some harsh campaign rhetoric right there Aris. :)
>
> I change my vote for PM to {G., Corona}.
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 11:11 PM Aris Merchant
> wrote:
> >
> > I'm happy to! My platform was that I was working to resolve the
> > inactivity crisis of the time [1]. It's less of a crisis now (though
> > more offices than usual are still empty), partially because of my
> > work. I sent the message I linked, and I've also taken on the duties
> > of the Arbitor as I said I would. G. on the other hand resigned from
> > all of eir offices, making the crisis worse. I'm not blaming em for
> > needing time off, just suggesting that I'm currently the better
> > candidate.
> >
> > [1]
> > https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-discussion/2019-April/053804.html
> >
> > -Aris
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 8:09 PM Jason Cobb wrote:
> > >
> > > My vote is still up for grabs, if I'm eligible (which I think I am).
> > > Sorry again, but I am too new to know everything you would wish to
> > > include in your platform. Could you give me a short summary so that I
> > > don't have to trawl through lots of messages?
> > >
> > > On 6/2/19 10:35 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:
> > > > I vote [Aris, G.].
> > > >
> > > > Why is no one voting for me? As far as I can tell, I have a stronger
> > > > platform (well, at least I had a platform) and am currently more active.
> > > > I’m really confused, TBH.
> > > >
> > > > -Aris
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 7:30 PM James Cook wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> In the ongoing election for Prime Minister, I vote [G., Aris].
> > > >>
> > > >> On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 at 12:29, D Margaux wrote:
> > > >>> I temporarily deputise for ADoP to initiate an election for Prime
> > > >> Minister (for reals this time).
> > > >>> The valid options are G., Corona, and Aris.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The vote collector is the ADoP and the voting method is instant
> > > >>> runoff.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > On Jun 2, 2019, at 4:56 AM, Reuben Staley
> > > >> wrote:
> > > JUDGEMENT OF A CFJ WITH NO ID
> > > ===
> > >
> > > Whereas there is not much I feel I can add to the Caller's Arguments,
> > > >> I accept them and judge this CFJ TRUE.
> > > > On 5/30/19 12:57 PM, D. Margaux wrote:
> > > > I assign this CFJ to Trigon (the only judge who is both eligible and
> > > >> not an interested party).
> > > > Begin forwarded message:
> > > >> From: D Margaux
> > > >> Date: May 28, 2019 at 9:49:13 AM EDT
> > > >> To: Agora Business
> > > >> Subject: CFJ re Prime Minister Election
> > > >>
> > > >> I call for judgement, and submit to the Referee (because the
> > > >> Arbitor
> > > >> is an interested party), the following statement: “The ADoP did not
> > > >> EFFECTIVELY commence any election for the office of Prime Minister on
> > > >> 19
> > > >> May 2019.”
> > > >> Caller’s Arguments:
> > > >>
> > > >> Under Rule 104, a notice initiating an Agoran decision is “invalid”
> > > >> unless it contains “[a] clear description of the valid options.” On
> > > >> 19 May
> > > >> 2019, the ADoP sent two messages purporting to initiate an election for
> > > >> Prime Minister, but neither of those messages clearly described the
> > > >> valid
> > > >> options as required by rule. Therefore no PM election was commenced.
> > > >> In the first attempt,[1] Murphy stated that “the valid options are
> > > >> the candidates (G. and Corona).” That did not clearly state the valid
> > > >> options because Aris was also a candidate.
> > > >> In the second attempt,[2] Murphy stated that “Aris may also be a
> > > >> candidate” and that, “[i]f voting for Prime Minister is not yet open,
> > > >> then
> > > >> I open it (details as below except Aris is also a candidate).” That
> > > >> message did not clearly identify the valid options, because it stated
> > > >> only
> > > >> that Aris *may* be a candidate, not that e *was* a candidate.
> > > >> Additionally,
> > > >> that message initiated an election *conditioned* on the old election
> > > >> being
> > > >> invalid; as a result, a reasonable Agoran reading that message in
> > > >> isolation
> > > >> would be unable to determine whether the PM
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Temporary Deputy-ADoP] Initiation of Election for Prime Minister
On Tue, 4 Jun 2019 at 02:09, Kerim Aydin wrote: > [Also: good to see you in the game again Walker, and welcome Jason Cobb!] Thanks G., and good to see you're still around! -- Walker
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Temporary Deputy-ADoP] Initiation of Election for Prime Minister
Ah, sorry, I just checked, and I registered 90 minutes too late to vote in this election. Probably for the best anyway as I still don't really know who people are. Jason Cobb On 6/3/19 2:10 AM, Aris Merchant wrote: I'm happy to! My platform was that I was working to resolve the inactivity crisis of the time [1]. It's less of a crisis now (though more offices than usual are still empty), partially because of my work. I sent the message I linked, and I've also taken on the duties of the Arbitor as I said I would. G. on the other hand resigned from all of eir offices, making the crisis worse. I'm not blaming em for needing time off, just suggesting that I'm currently the better candidate. [1] https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-discussion/2019-April/053804.html -Aris On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 8:09 PM Jason Cobb wrote: My vote is still up for grabs, if I'm eligible (which I think I am). Sorry again, but I am too new to know everything you would wish to include in your platform. Could you give me a short summary so that I don't have to trawl through lots of messages? On 6/2/19 10:35 PM, Aris Merchant wrote: I vote [Aris, G.]. Why is no one voting for me? As far as I can tell, I have a stronger platform (well, at least I had a platform) and am currently more active. I’m really confused, TBH. -Aris On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 7:30 PM James Cook wrote: In the ongoing election for Prime Minister, I vote [G., Aris]. On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 at 12:29, D Margaux wrote: I temporarily deputise for ADoP to initiate an election for Prime Minister (for reals this time). The valid options are G., Corona, and Aris. The vote collector is the ADoP and the voting method is instant runoff. On Jun 2, 2019, at 4:56 AM, Reuben Staley wrote: JUDGEMENT OF A CFJ WITH NO ID === Whereas there is not much I feel I can add to the Caller's Arguments, I accept them and judge this CFJ TRUE. On 5/30/19 12:57 PM, D. Margaux wrote: I assign this CFJ to Trigon (the only judge who is both eligible and not an interested party). Begin forwarded message: From: D Margaux Date: May 28, 2019 at 9:49:13 AM EDT To: Agora Business Subject: CFJ re Prime Minister Election I call for judgement, and submit to the Referee (because the Arbitor is an interested party), the following statement: “The ADoP did not EFFECTIVELY commence any election for the office of Prime Minister on 19 May 2019.” Caller’s Arguments: Under Rule 104, a notice initiating an Agoran decision is “invalid” unless it contains “[a] clear description of the valid options.” On 19 May 2019, the ADoP sent two messages purporting to initiate an election for Prime Minister, but neither of those messages clearly described the valid options as required by rule. Therefore no PM election was commenced. In the first attempt,[1] Murphy stated that “the valid options are the candidates (G. and Corona).” That did not clearly state the valid options because Aris was also a candidate. In the second attempt,[2] Murphy stated that “Aris may also be a candidate” and that, “[i]f voting for Prime Minister is not yet open, then I open it (details as below except Aris is also a candidate).” That message did not clearly identify the valid options, because it stated only that Aris *may* be a candidate, not that e *was* a candidate. Additionally, that message initiated an election *conditioned* on the old election being invalid; as a result, a reasonable Agoran reading that message in isolation would be unable to determine whether the PM election was initiated by message [1] or [2], and therefore could not know what the “valid options” were. In my view, that means that message [2] did not contain “[a] clear description of the valid options.” Because neither message clearly described the valid options, both messages failed to initiate an election under Rule 104. —— [1] https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/msg33821.html [2] https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/msg33823.html -- Trigon -- Jason Cobb
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Temporary Deputy-ADoP] Initiation of Election for Prime Minister
I'm happy to! My platform was that I was working to resolve the inactivity crisis of the time [1]. It's less of a crisis now (though more offices than usual are still empty), partially because of my work. I sent the message I linked, and I've also taken on the duties of the Arbitor as I said I would. G. on the other hand resigned from all of eir offices, making the crisis worse. I'm not blaming em for needing time off, just suggesting that I'm currently the better candidate. [1] https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-discussion/2019-April/053804.html -Aris On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 8:09 PM Jason Cobb wrote: > > My vote is still up for grabs, if I'm eligible (which I think I am). > Sorry again, but I am too new to know everything you would wish to > include in your platform. Could you give me a short summary so that I > don't have to trawl through lots of messages? > > On 6/2/19 10:35 PM, Aris Merchant wrote: > > I vote [Aris, G.]. > > > > Why is no one voting for me? As far as I can tell, I have a stronger > > platform (well, at least I had a platform) and am currently more active. > > I’m really confused, TBH. > > > > -Aris > > > > On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 7:30 PM James Cook wrote: > > > >> In the ongoing election for Prime Minister, I vote [G., Aris]. > >> > >> On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 at 12:29, D Margaux wrote: > >>> I temporarily deputise for ADoP to initiate an election for Prime > >> Minister (for reals this time). > >>> The valid options are G., Corona, and Aris. > >>> > >>> The vote collector is the ADoP and the voting method is instant runoff. > >>> > >>> > On Jun 2, 2019, at 4:56 AM, Reuben Staley > >> wrote: > JUDGEMENT OF A CFJ WITH NO ID > === > > Whereas there is not much I feel I can add to the Caller's Arguments, > >> I accept them and judge this CFJ TRUE. > > On 5/30/19 12:57 PM, D. Margaux wrote: > > I assign this CFJ to Trigon (the only judge who is both eligible and > >> not an interested party). > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: D Margaux > >> Date: May 28, 2019 at 9:49:13 AM EDT > >> To: Agora Business > >> Subject: CFJ re Prime Minister Election > >> > >> I call for judgement, and submit to the Referee (because the Arbitor > >> is an interested party), the following statement: “The ADoP did not > >> EFFECTIVELY commence any election for the office of Prime Minister on 19 > >> May 2019.” > >> Caller’s Arguments: > >> > >> Under Rule 104, a notice initiating an Agoran decision is “invalid” > >> unless it contains “[a] clear description of the valid options.” On 19 May > >> 2019, the ADoP sent two messages purporting to initiate an election for > >> Prime Minister, but neither of those messages clearly described the valid > >> options as required by rule. Therefore no PM election was commenced. > >> In the first attempt,[1] Murphy stated that “the valid options are > >> the candidates (G. and Corona).” That did not clearly state the valid > >> options because Aris was also a candidate. > >> In the second attempt,[2] Murphy stated that “Aris may also be a > >> candidate” and that, “[i]f voting for Prime Minister is not yet open, then > >> I open it (details as below except Aris is also a candidate).” That > >> message did not clearly identify the valid options, because it stated only > >> that Aris *may* be a candidate, not that e *was* a candidate. Additionally, > >> that message initiated an election *conditioned* on the old election being > >> invalid; as a result, a reasonable Agoran reading that message in isolation > >> would be unable to determine whether the PM election was initiated by > >> message [1] or [2], and therefore could not know what the “valid options” > >> were. In my view, that means that message [2] did not contain “[a] clear > >> description of the valid options.” > >> Because neither message clearly described the valid options, both > >> messages failed to initiate an election under Rule 104. > >> —— > >> [1] > >> https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/msg33821.html > >> [2] > >> https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/msg33823.html > -- > Trigon > > -- > Jason Cobb >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Temporary Deputy-ADoP] Initiation of Election for Prime Minister
My vote is still up for grabs, if I'm eligible (which I think I am). Sorry again, but I am too new to know everything you would wish to include in your platform. Could you give me a short summary so that I don't have to trawl through lots of messages? On 6/2/19 10:35 PM, Aris Merchant wrote: I vote [Aris, G.]. Why is no one voting for me? As far as I can tell, I have a stronger platform (well, at least I had a platform) and am currently more active. I’m really confused, TBH. -Aris On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 7:30 PM James Cook wrote: In the ongoing election for Prime Minister, I vote [G., Aris]. On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 at 12:29, D Margaux wrote: I temporarily deputise for ADoP to initiate an election for Prime Minister (for reals this time). The valid options are G., Corona, and Aris. The vote collector is the ADoP and the voting method is instant runoff. On Jun 2, 2019, at 4:56 AM, Reuben Staley wrote: JUDGEMENT OF A CFJ WITH NO ID === Whereas there is not much I feel I can add to the Caller's Arguments, I accept them and judge this CFJ TRUE. On 5/30/19 12:57 PM, D. Margaux wrote: I assign this CFJ to Trigon (the only judge who is both eligible and not an interested party). Begin forwarded message: From: D Margaux Date: May 28, 2019 at 9:49:13 AM EDT To: Agora Business Subject: CFJ re Prime Minister Election I call for judgement, and submit to the Referee (because the Arbitor is an interested party), the following statement: “The ADoP did not EFFECTIVELY commence any election for the office of Prime Minister on 19 May 2019.” Caller’s Arguments: Under Rule 104, a notice initiating an Agoran decision is “invalid” unless it contains “[a] clear description of the valid options.” On 19 May 2019, the ADoP sent two messages purporting to initiate an election for Prime Minister, but neither of those messages clearly described the valid options as required by rule. Therefore no PM election was commenced. In the first attempt,[1] Murphy stated that “the valid options are the candidates (G. and Corona).” That did not clearly state the valid options because Aris was also a candidate. In the second attempt,[2] Murphy stated that “Aris may also be a candidate” and that, “[i]f voting for Prime Minister is not yet open, then I open it (details as below except Aris is also a candidate).” That message did not clearly identify the valid options, because it stated only that Aris *may* be a candidate, not that e *was* a candidate. Additionally, that message initiated an election *conditioned* on the old election being invalid; as a result, a reasonable Agoran reading that message in isolation would be unable to determine whether the PM election was initiated by message [1] or [2], and therefore could not know what the “valid options” were. In my view, that means that message [2] did not contain “[a] clear description of the valid options.” Because neither message clearly described the valid options, both messages failed to initiate an election under Rule 104. —— [1] https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/msg33821.html [2] https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/msg33823.html -- Trigon -- Jason Cobb
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Temporary Deputy-ADoP] Initiation of Election for Prime Minister
I don't feel strongly either way. I think both you and G. are good choices as PM, having a strong understanding of the game and willingness to step up and help keep things moving. I think you've done more recently, but I'm not sure how much recency should count, if G.'s still fairly active. For this election attempt in particular, I'm just repeating what I did on the last attempt to try to be consistent and not have the result change just because of the confusion. I hope I didn't confuse people by voting to "endorse G." on the last election attempt. I did it because I wasn't sure if G. still wanted it, but it might have been interpreted as "I don't know what's going on; to be safe I'll let G. figure it out". On Mon, 3 Jun 2019 at 02:35, Aris Merchant wrote: > > I vote [Aris, G.]. > > Why is no one voting for me? As far as I can tell, I have a stronger > platform (well, at least I had a platform) and am currently more active. > I’m really confused, TBH. > > -Aris > > On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 7:30 PM James Cook wrote: > > > In the ongoing election for Prime Minister, I vote [G., Aris]. > > > > On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 at 12:29, D Margaux wrote: > > > > > > I temporarily deputise for ADoP to initiate an election for Prime > > Minister (for reals this time). > > > > > > The valid options are G., Corona, and Aris. > > > > > > The vote collector is the ADoP and the voting method is instant runoff. > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 2, 2019, at 4:56 AM, Reuben Staley > > wrote: > > > > > > > > JUDGEMENT OF A CFJ WITH NO ID > > > > === > > > > > > > > Whereas there is not much I feel I can add to the Caller's Arguments, > > I accept them and judge this CFJ TRUE. > > > > > > > >> On 5/30/19 12:57 PM, D. Margaux wrote: > > > >> I assign this CFJ to Trigon (the only judge who is both eligible and > > not an interested party). > > > >> Begin forwarded message: > > > >>> From: D Margaux > > > >>> Date: May 28, 2019 at 9:49:13 AM EDT > > > >>> To: Agora Business > > > >>> Subject: CFJ re Prime Minister Election > > > >>> > > > >>> I call for judgement, and submit to the Referee (because the Arbitor > > is an interested party), the following statement: “The ADoP did not > > EFFECTIVELY commence any election for the office of Prime Minister on 19 > > May 2019.” > > > >>> > > > >>> Caller’s Arguments: > > > >>> > > > >>> Under Rule 104, a notice initiating an Agoran decision is “invalid” > > unless it contains “[a] clear description of the valid options.” On 19 May > > 2019, the ADoP sent two messages purporting to initiate an election for > > Prime Minister, but neither of those messages clearly described the valid > > options as required by rule. Therefore no PM election was commenced. > > > >>> > > > >>> In the first attempt,[1] Murphy stated that “the valid options are > > the candidates (G. and Corona).” That did not clearly state the valid > > options because Aris was also a candidate. > > > >>> > > > >>> In the second attempt,[2] Murphy stated that “Aris may also be a > > candidate” and that, “[i]f voting for Prime Minister is not yet open, then > > I open it (details as below except Aris is also a candidate).” That > > message did not clearly identify the valid options, because it stated only > > that Aris *may* be a candidate, not that e *was* a candidate. Additionally, > > that message initiated an election *conditioned* on the old election being > > invalid; as a result, a reasonable Agoran reading that message in isolation > > would be unable to determine whether the PM election was initiated by > > message [1] or [2], and therefore could not know what the “valid options” > > were. In my view, that means that message [2] did not contain “[a] clear > > description of the valid options.” > > > >>> > > > >>> Because neither message clearly described the valid options, both > > messages failed to initiate an election under Rule 104. > > > >>> > > > >>> —— > > > >>> [1] > > https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/msg33821.html > > > >>> > > > >>> [2] > > https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/msg33823.html > > > >>> > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Trigon > >
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Temporary Deputy-ADoP] Initiation of Election for Prime Minister
I vote [Aris, G.]. Why is no one voting for me? As far as I can tell, I have a stronger platform (well, at least I had a platform) and am currently more active. I’m really confused, TBH. -Aris On Sun, Jun 2, 2019 at 7:30 PM James Cook wrote: > In the ongoing election for Prime Minister, I vote [G., Aris]. > > On Sun, 2 Jun 2019 at 12:29, D Margaux wrote: > > > > I temporarily deputise for ADoP to initiate an election for Prime > Minister (for reals this time). > > > > The valid options are G., Corona, and Aris. > > > > The vote collector is the ADoP and the voting method is instant runoff. > > > > > > > On Jun 2, 2019, at 4:56 AM, Reuben Staley > wrote: > > > > > > JUDGEMENT OF A CFJ WITH NO ID > > > === > > > > > > Whereas there is not much I feel I can add to the Caller's Arguments, > I accept them and judge this CFJ TRUE. > > > > > >> On 5/30/19 12:57 PM, D. Margaux wrote: > > >> I assign this CFJ to Trigon (the only judge who is both eligible and > not an interested party). > > >> Begin forwarded message: > > >>> From: D Margaux > > >>> Date: May 28, 2019 at 9:49:13 AM EDT > > >>> To: Agora Business > > >>> Subject: CFJ re Prime Minister Election > > >>> > > >>> I call for judgement, and submit to the Referee (because the Arbitor > is an interested party), the following statement: “The ADoP did not > EFFECTIVELY commence any election for the office of Prime Minister on 19 > May 2019.” > > >>> > > >>> Caller’s Arguments: > > >>> > > >>> Under Rule 104, a notice initiating an Agoran decision is “invalid” > unless it contains “[a] clear description of the valid options.” On 19 May > 2019, the ADoP sent two messages purporting to initiate an election for > Prime Minister, but neither of those messages clearly described the valid > options as required by rule. Therefore no PM election was commenced. > > >>> > > >>> In the first attempt,[1] Murphy stated that “the valid options are > the candidates (G. and Corona).” That did not clearly state the valid > options because Aris was also a candidate. > > >>> > > >>> In the second attempt,[2] Murphy stated that “Aris may also be a > candidate” and that, “[i]f voting for Prime Minister is not yet open, then > I open it (details as below except Aris is also a candidate).” That > message did not clearly identify the valid options, because it stated only > that Aris *may* be a candidate, not that e *was* a candidate. Additionally, > that message initiated an election *conditioned* on the old election being > invalid; as a result, a reasonable Agoran reading that message in isolation > would be unable to determine whether the PM election was initiated by > message [1] or [2], and therefore could not know what the “valid options” > were. In my view, that means that message [2] did not contain “[a] clear > description of the valid options.” > > >>> > > >>> Because neither message clearly described the valid options, both > messages failed to initiate an election under Rule 104. > > >>> > > >>> —— > > >>> [1] > https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/msg33821.html > > >>> > > >>> [2] > https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/msg33823.html > > >>> > > > > > > -- > > > Trigon >
