Re: DIS: [very early proto/idea] Inter-Nomic Currency

[Owen Jacobson]

> On Sep 12, 2017, at 10:06 AM, Gaelan Steele  wrote:
> 
> I have a clause in there about imported Subers being traceable back to a 
> Suber Creation Event. Presumably, this is something we’d do by proposal to 
> authorize another nomic’s minting of new Subers. In other words, BN could 
> fiat Subers into existence, but Agora wouldn’t accept them.

It’s not clear to me that this is even possible. Consider:

1. Agora creates a Suber. All participating Nomics agree to recognize this 
Suber and agree to account for it in ways that prevent duplication, splitting, 
or merging, so that it acts like an asset that exists exactly once across all 
of them.

2. Some enterprising player transfers this Suber to The Worst Example Nomic.

3. The players of The Worst Example Nomic creates a second Suber.

4. The players of The Worst Example Nomic transact both Subers around amongst 
themselves in such a way that makes tracking the history of either individually 
difficult or impossible. This isn’t hard: complex conditions would do it, as 
would any system allowing “secret” actions on that Nomic.

5. A player attempts to import a Suber from The Worst Example Nomic to Agora.

Do we recognize it? Or, rather, how would Agora decide whether to recognize it?

-o



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Re: DIS: [very early proto/idea] Inter-Nomic Currency

[Cuddle Beam]

>how effective a coin is as a coin.

*In an economy where the value of a coin isn't tightly controlled and
easily transferred to become something else (like our shinies into wins and
CFJs and what have you, which serves as its "gold" value in the ye olde
economy banknote comparison)

On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 5:16 PM, Cuddle Beam  wrote:

> We could make a Rai stone economy: https://en.wikipedia.
> org/wiki/Rai_stones where we take something sufficiently worthy to be
> Rai-Stone-able, like Wins for example ("ownership" of the win would just be
> a tag for purposes of the coin, the win itself wouldn't be transferred,
> just its Rai Stone incarnation), and by default, a new Win Rai Stone is
> minted when someone achieves victory (in either nomic), and it can be then
> freely traded off and such.
>
> I believe that both nomics have sufficiently stalwart restrictions on
> "wins" (it's pretty much one of the central concerns lol), so I believe it
> would very difficultly get out of control. Plus, the worth of a Rai Stone
> is relative, if all of a sudden you have a bajillion Rai Stones,
> SUBJECTIVELY, it's likely to be given less worth, and imo it's the
> subjective realm which is going to be the MOST important when it comes to
> how effective a coin is as a coin.
>
> It's a bit like trading baseball cards. The first win ever of Agora or BN
> is likely to be worth a lot, for example.
>
> Baseball card economy.
>
> On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 4:33 PM, Nic Evans  wrote:
>
>> On 09/12/17 09:06, Gaelan Steele wrote:
>> > I have a clause in there about imported Subers being traceable back to
>> a Suber Creation Event. Presumably, this is something we’d do by proposal
>> to authorize another nomic’s minting of new Subers. In other words, BN
>> could fiat Subers into existence, but Agora wouldn’t accept them.
>>
>> Arguably this clause makes Subers not a real currency because they're no
>> longer fungible. If a player is in both BN and Agora and wishes to
>> transfer eir Subers, e'll need to show history for each one, and this
>> history need be verifiable. That's a lot of import paperwork.
>>
>> >
>> > Gaelan
>> >
>> >> On Sep 11, 2017, at 11:27 PM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On Sep 11, 2017, at 5:05 AM, Gaelan Steele 
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Idea: a “universal” currency that can be used across Nomics. I’d
>> propose the name as “Subers,” but I’m not super attached to that. I’d
>> implement it such that each Suber always belongs to one nomic. A nomic may
>> internally allocate their Subers however they wish, but that isn’t visible
>> to other nomics. This allows us a lot of freedom with regards to things
>> like Contracts owning Subers. In terms of record keeping, I’d have each
>> nomic track the Subers in its possession. Wording would vary across nomics
>> of course, but I figure around here Subers would be assets, and we would
>> have something along the lines of “A player CAN create any number of Subers
>> in their possession by announcement if an equal number of Subers were
>> destroyed in another nomic with the intent of transferring them to that
>> player in Agora. The Subers in the other nomic must be able to be traced
>> back to a Suber Creation Event that was authorized by Agora. Any player CAN
>> destroy any number of Subers in their possession. If they do so, they SHALL
>> create the equivalent number of Subers in  another nomic, citing this
>> destruction as the source, within the next two hours. If they do not do so,
>> the Subers are recreated and are not considered destroyed for the purposes
>> of foreign rules.”
>> >>>
>> >>> I guess the most important question is whether there is another nomic
>> that would be interested in such a mechanic; it seems like something
>> BlogNomic wouldn’t be willing to keep around for more than a dynasty; I
>> don’t know FRC well enough to know how they would react to such a thing.
>> Are there any other nomics around that have overlap with our player base?
>> >> I’m not sure this would work, but I like the bones of the idea.
>> >>
>> >> The underlying issue is that any Nomic is generally reasonably
>> sovereign over its own state. If BlogNomic enacted the right changes to
>> create an additional Suber in their collective possession, who’s to say we
>> can meaningfully refuse to acknowledge it? You propose making Agora the
>> Central Bank of Subers, but I see no reason another Nomic should accept
>> that, on the face of it. Cooperative rule-making solutions might be
>> workable with two Nomics involved, as we could keep the rulesets reasonably
>> synced up, but it gets hairy very quickly with three or more Nomics.
>> >>
>> >> Instead, look to what currency exchanges do: they buy up local
>> currencies in each interesting jurisdiction, then set exchange rates.
>> Supposing you were a BN-Agora exchange merchant, you could buy up Shinies
>> on Agora, and Stamina on BlogNomic, using 

Re: DIS: [very early proto/idea] Inter-Nomic Currency

[Nic Evans]

On 09/12/17 09:06, Gaelan Steele wrote:
> I have a clause in there about imported Subers being traceable back to a 
> Suber Creation Event. Presumably, this is something we’d do by proposal to 
> authorize another nomic’s minting of new Subers. In other words, BN could 
> fiat Subers into existence, but Agora wouldn’t accept them. 

Arguably this clause makes Subers not a real currency because they're no
longer fungible. If a player is in both BN and Agora and wishes to
transfer eir Subers, e'll need to show history for each one, and this
history need be verifiable. That's a lot of import paperwork.

>
> Gaelan
>
>> On Sep 11, 2017, at 11:27 PM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> On Sep 11, 2017, at 5:05 AM, Gaelan Steele  wrote:
>>>
>>> Idea: a “universal” currency that can be used across Nomics. I’d propose 
>>> the name as “Subers,” but I’m not super attached to that. I’d implement it 
>>> such that each Suber always belongs to one nomic. A nomic may internally 
>>> allocate their Subers however they wish, but that isn’t visible to other 
>>> nomics. This allows us a lot of freedom with regards to things like 
>>> Contracts owning Subers. In terms of record keeping, I’d have each nomic 
>>> track the Subers in its possession. Wording would vary across nomics of 
>>> course, but I figure around here Subers would be assets, and we would have 
>>> something along the lines of “A player CAN create any number of Subers in 
>>> their possession by announcement if an equal number of Subers were 
>>> destroyed in another nomic with the intent of transferring them to that 
>>> player in Agora. The Subers in the other nomic must be able to be traced 
>>> back to a Suber Creation Event that was authorized by Agora. Any player CAN 
>>> destroy any number of Subers in their possession. If they do so, they SHALL 
>>> create the equivalent number of Subers in  another nomic, citing this 
>>> destruction as the source, within the next two hours. If they do not do so, 
>>> the Subers are recreated and are not considered destroyed for the purposes 
>>> of foreign rules.”
>>>
>>> I guess the most important question is whether there is another nomic that 
>>> would be interested in such a mechanic; it seems like something BlogNomic 
>>> wouldn’t be willing to keep around for more than a dynasty; I don’t know 
>>> FRC well enough to know how they would react to such a thing. Are there any 
>>> other nomics around that have overlap with our player base?
>> I’m not sure this would work, but I like the bones of the idea.
>>
>> The underlying issue is that any Nomic is generally reasonably sovereign 
>> over its own state. If BlogNomic enacted the right changes to create an 
>> additional Suber in their collective possession, who’s to say we can 
>> meaningfully refuse to acknowledge it? You propose making Agora the Central 
>> Bank of Subers, but I see no reason another Nomic should accept that, on the 
>> face of it. Cooperative rule-making solutions might be workable with two 
>> Nomics involved, as we could keep the rulesets reasonably synced up, but it 
>> gets hairy very quickly with three or more Nomics.
>>
>> Instead, look to what currency exchanges do: they buy up local currencies in 
>> each interesting jurisdiction, then set exchange rates. Supposing you were a 
>> BN-Agora exchange merchant, you could buy up Shinies on Agora, and Stamina 
>> on BlogNomic, using whatever local mechanism you believe to be profitable, 
>> and then set an exchange rate. In turn, as a customer, I could propose to 
>> offer you 10 Shinies here if you promised to repay me with your chosen 
>> exchange rate in Stamina on BlogNomic, for example, and then use either 
>> Agora’s or BN’s rules (as well as simple social obligation) to hold you to 
>> that agreement as far as is possible.
>>
>> The major fly in this ointment is that Nomic currencies and currency-likes 
>> tend to be far, far too volatile to meaningfully trade in. Agora moves 
>> relatively slowly, but even so, Shinies have existed for less than a year. 
>> BlogNomic churns even faster, and a currency trader holding any significant 
>> inventory in BN currencies is taking on considerable risk - probably enough 
>> that facilitating the exchange isn’t worthwhile.
>>
>> I never expected to be dealing with foreign policy or international finance 
>> in a Nomic, so, well done!
>>
>> -o




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Re: DIS: [very early proto/idea] Inter-Nomic Currency

[Gaelan Steele]

I have a clause in there about imported Subers being traceable back to a Suber 
Creation Event. Presumably, this is something we’d do by proposal to authorize 
another nomic’s minting of new Subers. In other words, BN could fiat Subers 
into existence, but Agora wouldn’t accept them. 

Gaelan

> On Sep 11, 2017, at 11:27 PM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Sep 11, 2017, at 5:05 AM, Gaelan Steele  wrote:
>> 
>> Idea: a “universal” currency that can be used across Nomics. I’d propose the 
>> name as “Subers,” but I’m not super attached to that. I’d implement it such 
>> that each Suber always belongs to one nomic. A nomic may internally allocate 
>> their Subers however they wish, but that isn’t visible to other nomics. This 
>> allows us a lot of freedom with regards to things like Contracts owning 
>> Subers. In terms of record keeping, I’d have each nomic track the Subers in 
>> its possession. Wording would vary across nomics of course, but I figure 
>> around here Subers would be assets, and we would have something along the 
>> lines of “A player CAN create any number of Subers in their possession by 
>> announcement if an equal number of Subers were destroyed in another nomic 
>> with the intent of transferring them to that player in Agora. The Subers in 
>> the other nomic must be able to be traced back to a Suber Creation Event 
>> that was authorized by Agora. Any player CAN destroy any number of Subers in 
>> their possession. If they do so, they SHALL create the equivalent number of 
>> Subers in  another nomic, citing this destruction as the source, within the 
>> next two hours. If they do not do so, the Subers are recreated and are not 
>> considered destroyed for the purposes of foreign rules.”
>> 
>> I guess the most important question is whether there is another nomic that 
>> would be interested in such a mechanic; it seems like something BlogNomic 
>> wouldn’t be willing to keep around for more than a dynasty; I don’t know FRC 
>> well enough to know how they would react to such a thing. Are there any 
>> other nomics around that have overlap with our player base?
> 
> I’m not sure this would work, but I like the bones of the idea.
> 
> The underlying issue is that any Nomic is generally reasonably sovereign over 
> its own state. If BlogNomic enacted the right changes to create an additional 
> Suber in their collective possession, who’s to say we can meaningfully refuse 
> to acknowledge it? You propose making Agora the Central Bank of Subers, but I 
> see no reason another Nomic should accept that, on the face of it. 
> Cooperative rule-making solutions might be workable with two Nomics involved, 
> as we could keep the rulesets reasonably synced up, but it gets hairy very 
> quickly with three or more Nomics.
> 
> Instead, look to what currency exchanges do: they buy up local currencies in 
> each interesting jurisdiction, then set exchange rates. Supposing you were a 
> BN-Agora exchange merchant, you could buy up Shinies on Agora, and Stamina on 
> BlogNomic, using whatever local mechanism you believe to be profitable, and 
> then set an exchange rate. In turn, as a customer, I could propose to offer 
> you 10 Shinies here if you promised to repay me with your chosen exchange 
> rate in Stamina on BlogNomic, for example, and then use either Agora’s or 
> BN’s rules (as well as simple social obligation) to hold you to that 
> agreement as far as is possible.
> 
> The major fly in this ointment is that Nomic currencies and currency-likes 
> tend to be far, far too volatile to meaningfully trade in. Agora moves 
> relatively slowly, but even so, Shinies have existed for less than a year. 
> BlogNomic churns even faster, and a currency trader holding any significant 
> inventory in BN currencies is taking on considerable risk - probably enough 
> that facilitating the exchange isn’t worthwhile.
> 
> I never expected to be dealing with foreign policy or international finance 
> in a Nomic, so, well done!
> 
> -o

Re: DIS: [very early proto/idea] Inter-Nomic Currency

[Cuddle Beam]

I think a universal "currency" would need to be backed on something "real"
at the beginning (like gold in the ye olde times) to be taken seriously for
competitive commerce, because "secret deal" trades and favors just seem to
be a superior kind of "banknote" to me. It's secret and more reliable -
it's not some abstract numbers floating around without meaning, it's
something someone has actually committed to do or has at least said they
would and an empty banknote doesn't have that on its own.

Maybe have it be equivalent to a vote or something? All (typical) nomics
have votes, making it universal.

On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:

>
> > On Sep 11, 2017, at 5:05 AM, Gaelan Steele  wrote:
> >
> > Idea: a “universal” currency that can be used across Nomics. I’d propose
> the name as “Subers,” but I’m not super attached to that. I’d implement it
> such that each Suber always belongs to one nomic. A nomic may internally
> allocate their Subers however they wish, but that isn’t visible to other
> nomics. This allows us a lot of freedom with regards to things like
> Contracts owning Subers. In terms of record keeping, I’d have each nomic
> track the Subers in its possession. Wording would vary across nomics of
> course, but I figure around here Subers would be assets, and we would have
> something along the lines of “A player CAN create any number of Subers in
> their possession by announcement if an equal number of Subers were
> destroyed in another nomic with the intent of transferring them to that
> player in Agora. The Subers in the other nomic must be able to be traced
> back to a Suber Creation Event that was authorized by Agora. Any player CAN
> destroy any number of Subers in their possession. If they do so, they SHALL
> create the equivalent number of Subers in  another nomic, citing this
> destruction as the source, within the next two hours. If they do not do so,
> the Subers are recreated and are not considered destroyed for the purposes
> of foreign rules.”
> >
> > I guess the most important question is whether there is another nomic
> that would be interested in such a mechanic; it seems like something
> BlogNomic wouldn’t be willing to keep around for more than a dynasty; I
> don’t know FRC well enough to know how they would react to such a thing.
> Are there any other nomics around that have overlap with our player base?
>
> I’m not sure this would work, but I like the bones of the idea.
>
> The underlying issue is that any Nomic is generally reasonably sovereign
> over its own state. If BlogNomic enacted the right changes to create an
> additional Suber in their collective possession, who’s to say we can
> meaningfully refuse to acknowledge it? You propose making Agora the Central
> Bank of Subers, but I see no reason another Nomic should accept that, on
> the face of it. Cooperative rule-making solutions might be workable with
> two Nomics involved, as we could keep the rulesets reasonably synced up,
> but it gets hairy very quickly with three or more Nomics.
>
> Instead, look to what currency exchanges do: they buy up local currencies
> in each interesting jurisdiction, then set exchange rates. Supposing you
> were a BN-Agora exchange merchant, you could buy up Shinies on Agora, and
> Stamina on BlogNomic, using whatever local mechanism you believe to be
> profitable, and then set an exchange rate. In turn, as a customer, I could
> propose to offer you 10 Shinies here if you promised to repay me with your
> chosen exchange rate in Stamina on BlogNomic, for example, and then use
> either Agora’s or BN’s rules (as well as simple social obligation) to hold
> you to that agreement as far as is possible.
>
> The major fly in this ointment is that Nomic currencies and currency-likes
> tend to be far, far too volatile to meaningfully trade in. Agora moves
> relatively slowly, but even so, Shinies have existed for less than a year.
> BlogNomic churns even faster, and a currency trader holding any significant
> inventory in BN currencies is taking on considerable risk - probably enough
> that facilitating the exchange isn’t worthwhile.
>
> I never expected to be dealing with foreign policy or international
> finance in a Nomic, so, well done!
>
> -o
>

Re: DIS: [very early proto/idea] Inter-Nomic Currency

[Owen Jacobson]

Go on, tell us what you _really_ think of the Euro.

-o

> On Sep 11, 2017, at 7:21 AM, Nicholas Evans  wrote:
> 
> Using tge same cyrrency for distinct markets with distinct financial controls 
> is usually a bad idea in the real world where people are incentivized to 
> maintain it. It'll be worse in a virtual world.
> 
> I'd still support if Subers didn't supplant shinies but rather was 
> exchangeable.
> 
> On Sep 11, 2017 4:05 AM, "Gaelan Steele"  > wrote:
> Idea: a “universal” currency that can be used across Nomics. I’d propose the 
> name as “Subers,” but I’m not super attached to that. I’d implement it such 
> that each Suber always belongs to one nomic. A nomic may internally allocate 
> their Subers however they wish, but that isn’t visible to other nomics. This 
> allows us a lot of freedom with regards to things like Contracts owning 
> Subers. In terms of record keeping, I’d have each nomic track the Subers in 
> its possession. Wording would vary across nomics of course, but I figure 
> around here Subers would be assets, and we would have something along the 
> lines of “A player CAN create any number of Subers in their possession by 
> announcement if an equal number of Subers were destroyed in another nomic 
> with the intent of transferring them to that player in Agora. The Subers in 
> the other nomic must be able to be traced back to a Suber Creation Event that 
> was authorized by Agora. Any player CAN destroy any number of Subers in their 
> possession. If they do so, they SHALL create the equivalent number of Subers 
> in  another nomic, citing this destruction as the source, within the next two 
> hours. If they do not do so, the Subers are recreated and are not considered 
> destroyed for the purposes of foreign rules.”
> 
> I guess the most important question is whether there is another nomic that 
> would be interested in such a mechanic; it seems like something BlogNomic 
> wouldn’t be willing to keep around for more than a dynasty; I don’t know FRC 
> well enough to know how they would react to such a thing. Are there any other 
> nomics around that have overlap with our player base?
> 
> Gaelan
> 



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Re: DIS: [very early proto/idea] Inter-Nomic Currency

[Owen Jacobson]

> On Sep 11, 2017, at 5:05 AM, Gaelan Steele  wrote:
> 
> Idea: a “universal” currency that can be used across Nomics. I’d propose the 
> name as “Subers,” but I’m not super attached to that. I’d implement it such 
> that each Suber always belongs to one nomic. A nomic may internally allocate 
> their Subers however they wish, but that isn’t visible to other nomics. This 
> allows us a lot of freedom with regards to things like Contracts owning 
> Subers. In terms of record keeping, I’d have each nomic track the Subers in 
> its possession. Wording would vary across nomics of course, but I figure 
> around here Subers would be assets, and we would have something along the 
> lines of “A player CAN create any number of Subers in their possession by 
> announcement if an equal number of Subers were destroyed in another nomic 
> with the intent of transferring them to that player in Agora. The Subers in 
> the other nomic must be able to be traced back to a Suber Creation Event that 
> was authorized by Agora. Any player CAN destroy any number of Subers in their 
> possession. If they do so, they SHALL create the equivalent number of Subers 
> in  another nomic, citing this destruction as the source, within the next two 
> hours. If they do not do so, the Subers are recreated and are not considered 
> destroyed for the purposes of foreign rules.”
> 
> I guess the most important question is whether there is another nomic that 
> would be interested in such a mechanic; it seems like something BlogNomic 
> wouldn’t be willing to keep around for more than a dynasty; I don’t know FRC 
> well enough to know how they would react to such a thing. Are there any other 
> nomics around that have overlap with our player base?

I’m not sure this would work, but I like the bones of the idea.

The underlying issue is that any Nomic is generally reasonably sovereign over 
its own state. If BlogNomic enacted the right changes to create an additional 
Suber in their collective possession, who’s to say we can meaningfully refuse 
to acknowledge it? You propose making Agora the Central Bank of Subers, but I 
see no reason another Nomic should accept that, on the face of it. Cooperative 
rule-making solutions might be workable with two Nomics involved, as we could 
keep the rulesets reasonably synced up, but it gets hairy very quickly with 
three or more Nomics.

Instead, look to what currency exchanges do: they buy up local currencies in 
each interesting jurisdiction, then set exchange rates. Supposing you were a 
BN-Agora exchange merchant, you could buy up Shinies on Agora, and Stamina on 
BlogNomic, using whatever local mechanism you believe to be profitable, and 
then set an exchange rate. In turn, as a customer, I could propose to offer you 
10 Shinies here if you promised to repay me with your chosen exchange rate in 
Stamina on BlogNomic, for example, and then use either Agora’s or BN’s rules 
(as well as simple social obligation) to hold you to that agreement as far as 
is possible.

The major fly in this ointment is that Nomic currencies and currency-likes tend 
to be far, far too volatile to meaningfully trade in. Agora moves relatively 
slowly, but even so, Shinies have existed for less than a year. BlogNomic 
churns even faster, and a currency trader holding any significant inventory in 
BN currencies is taking on considerable risk - probably enough that 
facilitating the exchange isn’t worthwhile.

I never expected to be dealing with foreign policy or international finance in 
a Nomic, so, well done!

-o


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Re: DIS: [very early proto/idea] Inter-Nomic Currency

[Ørjan Johansen]

On Mon, 11 Sep 2017, Cuddle Beam wrote:


Also, I've found this as a public paste on Pastebin a while ago which
suggests that there is another Nomic out there, although I haven't been
able to find it (or the coup never happened): https://pastebin.com/dEwyiMRq


I've never heard of it but I recognize comex and Ienpw_III who're old 
Agorans and sometimes on the IRC channel.


Greetings,
Ørjan.

Re: DIS: [very early proto/idea] Inter-Nomic Currency

[Cuddle Beam]

My question was a bit more broad but I get the redundancy.

As for Blognomic, there is a way to keep it for more than one dynasty - to
win Blognomic and keep the rule that mantains Subers in your Ascension
Address. Not a permanent solution though, but doable if you're really into
that.

Is there a third style of nomic aside from Dynastic and, well, [insert
Agora's style here]?

Also, I've found this as a public paste on Pastebin a while ago which
suggests that there is another Nomic out there, although I haven't been
able to find it (or the coup never happened): https://pastebin.com/dEwyiMRq

>i feel like weve passed the golden age of internet nomics

I have to agree. Back in the day there wasn't that much on the internet
really, so Agora stood out more I believe. But now we got instant
matchmaking, AMAZING graphics, Twitch, etc, so I feel like people would be
more drawn to those "game" communities than this obscure one. Play-by-post
Forum Roleplay is also slowly dying, and I believe that most of the blame
is that, people just prefer newer, more refined industrial games.


On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 3:55 PM, Gaelan Steele  wrote:

> I asked that same question in the last paragraph of my message.
>
> Gaelan
>
> On Sep 11, 2017, at 6:35 AM, Cuddle Beam  wrote:
>
> What other active nomics are there aside from Blognomic?
>
> On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 11:05 AM, Gaelan Steele 
> wrote:
>
>> Idea: a “universal” currency that can be used across Nomics. I’d propose
>> the name as “Subers,” but I’m not super attached to that. I’d implement it
>> such that each Suber always belongs to one nomic. A nomic may internally
>> allocate their Subers however they wish, but that isn’t visible to other
>> nomics. This allows us a lot of freedom with regards to things like
>> Contracts owning Subers. In terms of record keeping, I’d have each nomic
>> track the Subers in its possession. Wording would vary across nomics of
>> course, but I figure around here Subers would be assets, and we would have
>> something along the lines of “A player CAN create any number of Subers in
>> their possession by announcement if an equal number of Subers were
>> destroyed in another nomic with the intent of transferring them to that
>> player in Agora. The Subers in the other nomic must be able to be traced
>> back to a Suber Creation Event that was authorized by Agora. Any player CAN
>> destroy any number of Subers in their possession. If they do so, they SHALL
>> create the equivalent number of Subers in  another nomic, citing this
>> destruction as the source, within the next two hours. If they do not do so,
>> the Subers are recreated and are not considered destroyed for the purposes
>> of foreign rules.”
>>
>> I guess the most important question is whether there is another nomic
>> that would be interested in such a mechanic; it seems like something
>> BlogNomic wouldn’t be willing to keep around for more than a dynasty; I
>> don’t know FRC well enough to know how they would react to such a thing.
>> Are there any other nomics around that have overlap with our player base?
>>
>> Gaelan
>
>
>

Re: DIS: [very early proto/idea] Inter-Nomic Currency

[Gaelan Steele]

I asked that same question in the last paragraph of my message. 

Gaelan

> On Sep 11, 2017, at 6:35 AM, Cuddle Beam  wrote:
> 
> What other active nomics are there aside from Blognomic?
> 
>> On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 11:05 AM, Gaelan Steele  wrote:
>> Idea: a “universal” currency that can be used across Nomics. I’d propose the 
>> name as “Subers,” but I’m not super attached to that. I’d implement it such 
>> that each Suber always belongs to one nomic. A nomic may internally allocate 
>> their Subers however they wish, but that isn’t visible to other nomics. This 
>> allows us a lot of freedom with regards to things like Contracts owning 
>> Subers. In terms of record keeping, I’d have each nomic track the Subers in 
>> its possession. Wording would vary across nomics of course, but I figure 
>> around here Subers would be assets, and we would have something along the 
>> lines of “A player CAN create any number of Subers in their possession by 
>> announcement if an equal number of Subers were destroyed in another nomic 
>> with the intent of transferring them to that player in Agora. The Subers in 
>> the other nomic must be able to be traced back to a Suber Creation Event 
>> that was authorized by Agora. Any player CAN destroy any number of Subers in 
>> their possession. If they do so, they SHALL create the equivalent number of 
>> Subers in  another nomic, citing this destruction as the source, within the 
>> next two hours. If they do not do so, the Subers are recreated and are not 
>> considered destroyed for the purposes of foreign rules.”
>> 
>> I guess the most important question is whether there is another nomic that 
>> would be interested in such a mechanic; it seems like something BlogNomic 
>> wouldn’t be willing to keep around for more than a dynasty; I don’t know FRC 
>> well enough to know how they would react to such a thing. Are there any 
>> other nomics around that have overlap with our player base?
>> 
>> Gaelan
> 

Re: DIS: [very early proto/idea] Inter-Nomic Currency

[Cuddle Beam]

What other active nomics are there aside from Blognomic?

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 11:05 AM, Gaelan Steele  wrote:

> Idea: a “universal” currency that can be used across Nomics. I’d propose
> the name as “Subers,” but I’m not super attached to that. I’d implement it
> such that each Suber always belongs to one nomic. A nomic may internally
> allocate their Subers however they wish, but that isn’t visible to other
> nomics. This allows us a lot of freedom with regards to things like
> Contracts owning Subers. In terms of record keeping, I’d have each nomic
> track the Subers in its possession. Wording would vary across nomics of
> course, but I figure around here Subers would be assets, and we would have
> something along the lines of “A player CAN create any number of Subers in
> their possession by announcement if an equal number of Subers were
> destroyed in another nomic with the intent of transferring them to that
> player in Agora. The Subers in the other nomic must be able to be traced
> back to a Suber Creation Event that was authorized by Agora. Any player CAN
> destroy any number of Subers in their possession. If they do so, they SHALL
> create the equivalent number of Subers in  another nomic, citing this
> destruction as the source, within the next two hours. If they do not do so,
> the Subers are recreated and are not considered destroyed for the purposes
> of foreign rules.”
>
> I guess the most important question is whether there is another nomic that
> would be interested in such a mechanic; it seems like something BlogNomic
> wouldn’t be willing to keep around for more than a dynasty; I don’t know
> FRC well enough to know how they would react to such a thing. Are there any
> other nomics around that have overlap with our player base?
>
> Gaelan

Re: DIS: [very early proto/idea] Inter-Nomic Currency

[Nicholas Evans]

Using tge same cyrrency for distinct markets with distinct financial
controls is usually a bad idea in the real world where people are
incentivized to maintain it. It'll be worse in a virtual world.

I'd still support if Subers didn't supplant shinies but rather was
exchangeable.

On Sep 11, 2017 4:05 AM, "Gaelan Steele"  wrote:

Idea: a “universal” currency that can be used across Nomics. I’d propose
the name as “Subers,” but I’m not super attached to that. I’d implement it
such that each Suber always belongs to one nomic. A nomic may internally
allocate their Subers however they wish, but that isn’t visible to other
nomics. This allows us a lot of freedom with regards to things like
Contracts owning Subers. In terms of record keeping, I’d have each nomic
track the Subers in its possession. Wording would vary across nomics of
course, but I figure around here Subers would be assets, and we would have
something along the lines of “A player CAN create any number of Subers in
their possession by announcement if an equal number of Subers were
destroyed in another nomic with the intent of transferring them to that
player in Agora. The Subers in the other nomic must be able to be traced
back to a Suber Creation Event that was authorized by Agora. Any player CAN
destroy any number of Subers in their possession. If they do so, they SHALL
create the equivalent number of Subers in  another nomic, citing this
destruction as the source, within the next two hours. If they do not do so,
the Subers are recreated and are not considered destroyed for the purposes
of foreign rules.”

I guess the most important question is whether there is another nomic that
would be interested in such a mechanic; it seems like something BlogNomic
wouldn’t be willing to keep around for more than a dynasty; I don’t know
FRC well enough to know how they would react to such a thing. Are there any
other nomics around that have overlap with our player base?

Gaelan

Re: DIS: [very early proto/idea] Inter-Nomic Currency

[VJ Rada]

i feel like weve passed the golden age of internet nomics

On Mon, Sep 11, 2017 at 7:05 PM, Gaelan Steele  wrote:
> Idea: a “universal” currency that can be used across Nomics. I’d propose the 
> name as “Subers,” but I’m not super attached to that. I’d implement it such 
> that each Suber always belongs to one nomic. A nomic may internally allocate 
> their Subers however they wish, but that isn’t visible to other nomics. This 
> allows us a lot of freedom with regards to things like Contracts owning 
> Subers. In terms of record keeping, I’d have each nomic track the Subers in 
> its possession. Wording would vary across nomics of course, but I figure 
> around here Subers would be assets, and we would have something along the 
> lines of “A player CAN create any number of Subers in their possession by 
> announcement if an equal number of Subers were destroyed in another nomic 
> with the intent of transferring them to that player in Agora. The Subers in 
> the other nomic must be able to be traced back to a Suber Creation Event that 
> was authorized by Agora. Any player CAN destroy any number of Subers in their 
> possession. If they do so, they SHALL create the equivalent number of Subers 
> in  another nomic, citing this destruction as the source, within the next two 
> hours. If they do not do so, the Subers are recreated and are not considered 
> destroyed for the purposes of foreign rules.”
>
> I guess the most important question is whether there is another nomic that 
> would be interested in such a mechanic; it seems like something BlogNomic 
> wouldn’t be willing to keep around for more than a dynasty; I don’t know FRC 
> well enough to know how they would react to such a thing. Are there any other 
> nomics around that have overlap with our player base?
>
> Gaelan



-- 
>From V.J Rada

DIS: [very early proto/idea] Inter-Nomic Currency

[Gaelan Steele]

Idea: a “universal” currency that can be used across Nomics. I’d propose the 
name as “Subers,” but I’m not super attached to that. I’d implement it such 
that each Suber always belongs to one nomic. A nomic may internally allocate 
their Subers however they wish, but that isn’t visible to other nomics. This 
allows us a lot of freedom with regards to things like Contracts owning Subers. 
In terms of record keeping, I’d have each nomic track the Subers in its 
possession. Wording would vary across nomics of course, but I figure around 
here Subers would be assets, and we would have something along the lines of “A 
player CAN create any number of Subers in their possession by announcement if 
an equal number of Subers were destroyed in another nomic with the intent of 
transferring them to that player in Agora. The Subers in the other nomic must 
be able to be traced back to a Suber Creation Event that was authorized by 
Agora. Any player CAN destroy any number of Subers in their possession. If they 
do so, they SHALL create the equivalent number of Subers in  another nomic, 
citing this destruction as the source, within the next two hours. If they do 
not do so, the Subers are recreated and are not considered destroyed for the 
purposes of foreign rules.” 

I guess the most important question is whether there is another nomic that 
would be interested in such a mechanic; it seems like something BlogNomic 
wouldn’t be willing to keep around for more than a dynasty; I don’t know FRC 
well enough to know how they would react to such a thing. Are there any other 
nomics around that have overlap with our player base?

Gaelan