Re: DIS: On R1586

2019-08-30 Thread James Cook
On Thu, 29 Aug 2019 at 23:45, Jason Cobb  wrote:
> Rule 1586 ("Definition and Continuity of Entities") reads in part:
>
> >If the entity that defines another entity is amended such that it
> >no longer defines the second entity, then the second entity and
> >its attributes cease to exist.
> >
> >If the entity that defines another entity is amended such that it
> >defines the second entity both before and after the amendment, but
> >with different attributes, then the second entity and its
> >attributes continue to exist to whatever extent is possible under
> >the new definitions.
>
>
> It seems that the intent of this is to nuke entities when their backing
> rule changes to no longer define it.
>
> I think there might be two issues with these clauses:
>
> - It doesn't trigger if the defining entity ceases to exist, unless that
> counts as "amending" the defining entity, which I think would be an odd
> reading.
>
> - If the defining entity is a Rule, it doesn't trigger if that Rule is
> repealed because, even if it no longer has force, the Rule's text can
> continue to define (in a natural language sense) the entity.
>
>
> Am I correct in my reading and, if so, should this be fixed?
>
> --
> Jason Cobb

There was some discussion related to this in May in relation to the
side-game suspension act.

E.g. G.'s comment in
https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-discussion/2019-May/053887.html
:

> R217 covers this via the precedent initially set in CFJ 1500, asserts
> that words go back to having their common language meaning when not
> defined by the rules.

Also note that when a rule is repealed, it ceases to be a rule (R105).

-- 
- Falsifian


DIS: On R1586

2019-08-29 Thread Jason Cobb

Rule 1586 ("Definition and Continuity of Entities") reads in part:


   If the entity that defines another entity is amended such that it
   no longer defines the second entity, then the second entity and
   its attributes cease to exist.
   
   If the entity that defines another entity is amended such that it

   defines the second entity both before and after the amendment, but
   with different attributes, then the second entity and its
   attributes continue to exist to whatever extent is possible under
   the new definitions.



It seems that the intent of this is to nuke entities when their backing 
rule changes to no longer define it.


I think there might be two issues with these clauses:

- It doesn't trigger if the defining entity ceases to exist, unless that 
counts as "amending" the defining entity, which I think would be an odd 
reading.


- If the defining entity is a Rule, it doesn't trigger if that Rule is 
repealed because, even if it no longer has force, the Rule's text can 
continue to define (in a natural language sense) the entity.



Am I correct in my reading and, if so, should this be fixed?

--
Jason Cobb