Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Birthday

2019-02-13 Thread Kerim Aydin



In terms of the common definition for "declare", it makes perfect sense.
In fact I called a CFJ on a similar issue (substituting "state" for
"declare") a couple weeks back, but I'm realizing it's not in the Gazette.

D. Margaux, did the following CFJ get missed or am I just not finding the 
assignment?


https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2019-January/039834.html

On 2/13/2019 6:05 PM, James Cook wrote:

Thanks, G.

When I was initially planning this, I thought I remembered Rule 478
being power=4 and having some strong wording to the effect that
players can participate in the fora, and thought I could make a case
that a lower-powered rule like 2125 can't limit a player's ability to
do anything synonymous with sending messages (such as making a public
declaration)

.But thinking about it more, even if my false memory were true, the
text "declared as eir Agoran Birthday" in Rule 2585 should not be
interpreted as referring to the ordinary English verb "declare",
because anyone with common sense would understand that it's intending
to refer to the regulated action defined in the previous sentence, and
Rule 217 says we should augment the rule with common sense if it's
ambiguous.

Does that all make sense? Or is this a wrong or misleading way to look
at the situation?

Falsifian

On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 13:28, Kerim Aydin  wrote:



Welcome, Falsifian!  Good test of new rule - nice beginning!

In general, when a rule says "a Player CAN [verb] with Agoran Consent", it
means that e does whatever [verb] is using the Agoran Consent method; that
is, the "actual" actions the player takes are following the R1728 procedure.
Similarly, if it was "can declare by announcement" then e would do it by
announcement.

This is what is meant by "only using the methods explicitly specified in the
Rules" in Rule 2125.

Interestingly, if the rule said "declare" and didn't have one of the Rules
methods in addition, then it's not clear how you would do it.  To interpret
it, a judge would probably use the common (dictionary) definition of
"declare" (as per R217), and it's not clear whether, as a result,
"declare" on it own would mean to publish it, or just say it out loud (i.e.
literally declare it to yourself), or what.  So you'd be spot-on with your
arguments in that case.

-G.

On 2/12/2019 5:58 PM, James Cook wrote:

Thanks, D. Margaux. The only thing I can think of is that "declaring"
might not be an action (and hence not covered by Rule 1728), or that
it might be synonymous with "announcing" or "publishing", which Rule
478 allows me to do. I'm guessing that Rule 217 and  game custom
defeat those arguments, but I thought I'd give it a try, since I don't
have much experience with game custom.


On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 01:17, D. Margaux  wrote:


Welcome!

I assign that CFJ to myself

Under the rule, I believe that a player CAN declare a date to be eir birthday 
only “with Agoran Consent,” which is a particular method of taking actions 
described in Rule 1728 that requires that you first announce your intent to 
perform the action, and give players an opportunity to support or object to it, 
and the action is permitted only if more people support than oppose. So based 
on that, I think the CFJ is FALSE, and I judge it that way unless there is 
something I am missing.


On Feb 12, 2019, at 7:52 PM, James Cook  wrote:

I register. I go by "Falsifian" in online settings, or just my real name
"James" if you prefer.

My Agoran Birthday is the day beginning at midnight UTC on February 13,
2018.

I initiate a CFJ for the statement "It is Falsifian's Agoran Birthday today
(the day beginning at midnight UTC on February 13, 2019).".

Here is my argument:

1. I declared earlier in this message that is my Agoran Birthday was one
year ago. This is a simple matter of fact that anyone reading this can
verify. The rules cannot change this fact.

2. The day I first registered is unknown, because I haven't told anyone.
For example, as far as anyone else knows, I might have first registered a
very long time ago under a different name.

3. Rule 2585 says: "As long as the day a player first registered remains
unknown, it is considered to be eir Agoran Birthday on the anniversary of
the day e most recently declared as eir Agoran Birthday.". Based on my two
earlier points, then, today is the anniversary of my Agoran Birthday.


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Birthday

2019-02-13 Thread James Cook
Thanks, G.

When I was initially planning this, I thought I remembered Rule 478
being power=4 and having some strong wording to the effect that
players can participate in the fora, and thought I could make a case
that a lower-powered rule like 2125 can't limit a player's ability to
do anything synonymous with sending messages (such as making a public
declaration)

.But thinking about it more, even if my false memory were true, the
text "declared as eir Agoran Birthday" in Rule 2585 should not be
interpreted as referring to the ordinary English verb "declare",
because anyone with common sense would understand that it's intending
to refer to the regulated action defined in the previous sentence, and
Rule 217 says we should augment the rule with common sense if it's
ambiguous.

Does that all make sense? Or is this a wrong or misleading way to look
at the situation?

Falsifian

On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 13:28, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
>
>
> Welcome, Falsifian!  Good test of new rule - nice beginning!
>
> In general, when a rule says "a Player CAN [verb] with Agoran Consent", it
> means that e does whatever [verb] is using the Agoran Consent method; that
> is, the "actual" actions the player takes are following the R1728 procedure.
> Similarly, if it was "can declare by announcement" then e would do it by
> announcement.
>
> This is what is meant by "only using the methods explicitly specified in the
> Rules" in Rule 2125.
>
> Interestingly, if the rule said "declare" and didn't have one of the Rules
> methods in addition, then it's not clear how you would do it.  To interpret
> it, a judge would probably use the common (dictionary) definition of
> "declare" (as per R217), and it's not clear whether, as a result,
> "declare" on it own would mean to publish it, or just say it out loud (i.e.
> literally declare it to yourself), or what.  So you'd be spot-on with your
> arguments in that case.
>
> -G.
>
> On 2/12/2019 5:58 PM, James Cook wrote:
> > Thanks, D. Margaux. The only thing I can think of is that "declaring"
> > might not be an action (and hence not covered by Rule 1728), or that
> > it might be synonymous with "announcing" or "publishing", which Rule
> > 478 allows me to do. I'm guessing that Rule 217 and  game custom
> > defeat those arguments, but I thought I'd give it a try, since I don't
> > have much experience with game custom.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 01:17, D. Margaux  wrote:
> >>
> >> Welcome!
> >>
> >> I assign that CFJ to myself
> >>
> >> Under the rule, I believe that a player CAN declare a date to be eir 
> >> birthday only “with Agoran Consent,” which is a particular method of 
> >> taking actions described in Rule 1728 that requires that you first 
> >> announce your intent to perform the action, and give players an 
> >> opportunity to support or object to it, and the action is permitted only 
> >> if more people support than oppose. So based on that, I think the CFJ is 
> >> FALSE, and I judge it that way unless there is something I am missing.
> >>
> >>> On Feb 12, 2019, at 7:52 PM, James Cook  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I register. I go by "Falsifian" in online settings, or just my real name
> >>> "James" if you prefer.
> >>>
> >>> My Agoran Birthday is the day beginning at midnight UTC on February 13,
> >>> 2018.
> >>>
> >>> I initiate a CFJ for the statement "It is Falsifian's Agoran Birthday 
> >>> today
> >>> (the day beginning at midnight UTC on February 13, 2019).".
> >>>
> >>> Here is my argument:
> >>>
> >>> 1. I declared earlier in this message that is my Agoran Birthday was one
> >>> year ago. This is a simple matter of fact that anyone reading this can
> >>> verify. The rules cannot change this fact.
> >>>
> >>> 2. The day I first registered is unknown, because I haven't told anyone.
> >>> For example, as far as anyone else knows, I might have first registered a
> >>> very long time ago under a different name.
> >>>
> >>> 3. Rule 2585 says: "As long as the day a player first registered remains
> >>> unknown, it is considered to be eir Agoran Birthday on the anniversary of
> >>> the day e most recently declared as eir Agoran Birthday.". Based on my two
> >>> earlier points, then, today is the anniversary of my Agoran Birthday.


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Birthday

2019-02-13 Thread Kerim Aydin



Welcome, Falsifian!  Good test of new rule - nice beginning!

In general, when a rule says "a Player CAN [verb] with Agoran Consent", it
means that e does whatever [verb] is using the Agoran Consent method; that
is, the "actual" actions the player takes are following the R1728 procedure.
Similarly, if it was "can declare by announcement" then e would do it by
announcement.

This is what is meant by "only using the methods explicitly specified in the
Rules" in Rule 2125.

Interestingly, if the rule said "declare" and didn't have one of the Rules
methods in addition, then it's not clear how you would do it.  To interpret
it, a judge would probably use the common (dictionary) definition of
"declare" (as per R217), and it's not clear whether, as a result,
"declare" on it own would mean to publish it, or just say it out loud (i.e.
literally declare it to yourself), or what.  So you'd be spot-on with your
arguments in that case.

-G.

On 2/12/2019 5:58 PM, James Cook wrote:

Thanks, D. Margaux. The only thing I can think of is that "declaring"
might not be an action (and hence not covered by Rule 1728), or that
it might be synonymous with "announcing" or "publishing", which Rule
478 allows me to do. I'm guessing that Rule 217 and  game custom
defeat those arguments, but I thought I'd give it a try, since I don't
have much experience with game custom.


On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 01:17, D. Margaux  wrote:


Welcome!

I assign that CFJ to myself

Under the rule, I believe that a player CAN declare a date to be eir birthday 
only “with Agoran Consent,” which is a particular method of taking actions 
described in Rule 1728 that requires that you first announce your intent to 
perform the action, and give players an opportunity to support or object to it, 
and the action is permitted only if more people support than oppose. So based 
on that, I think the CFJ is FALSE, and I judge it that way unless there is 
something I am missing.


On Feb 12, 2019, at 7:52 PM, James Cook  wrote:

I register. I go by "Falsifian" in online settings, or just my real name
"James" if you prefer.

My Agoran Birthday is the day beginning at midnight UTC on February 13,
2018.

I initiate a CFJ for the statement "It is Falsifian's Agoran Birthday today
(the day beginning at midnight UTC on February 13, 2019).".

Here is my argument:

1. I declared earlier in this message that is my Agoran Birthday was one
year ago. This is a simple matter of fact that anyone reading this can
verify. The rules cannot change this fact.

2. The day I first registered is unknown, because I haven't told anyone.
For example, as far as anyone else knows, I might have first registered a
very long time ago under a different name.

3. Rule 2585 says: "As long as the day a player first registered remains
unknown, it is considered to be eir Agoran Birthday on the anniversary of
the day e most recently declared as eir Agoran Birthday.". Based on my two
earlier points, then, today is the anniversary of my Agoran Birthday.


RE: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2019-02-04 Thread David Seeber
It is possible that Wikipedia is inaccurate.

-Original Message-
From: agora-discussion  On Behalf Of 
Kerim Aydin
Sent: 04 February 2019 23:22
To: Agora Nomic discussions (DF) 
Subject: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration


I've never looked up Wikipedia on Wikipedia, but it started 2001 (according to 
Wikipedia).  Agora was 1993 (Rule 1727), so definitely older.

On 2/4/2019 3:12 PM, David Seeber wrote:
> That sounds like the beginning of a thesis. But anyway.
> 
> In my opinion it’s Wikipedia mentioning them because they are still around. 
> The easiest thing to do would be
>   a. check the modification records from Wikipedia (I assume that's 
> possible because it's all meant to be transparent, right?) and see when they 
> were first mentioned
>   b. Check when Wikipedia itself was founded. It's possible that Agora 
> and BlogNomic are older than Wikipedia (anybody?)
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: agora-discussion  On 
> Behalf Of ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk
> Sent: 04 February 2019 23:09
> To: agora-discussion@agoranomic.org
> Subject: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration
> 
> On Mon, 2019-02-04 at 23:05 +, David Seeber wrote:
>> Actually it was a good friend of mine who is a sort of board game 
>> nerd. He has a little nomic which he plays with a few friends and 
>> invited me to join in. Whilst checking out what nomics actually are, 
>> I found the Wikipedia page, which talks about Agora being the biggest 
>> nomic still running. And I thought, Hey... Why not?
> 
> Theory: the fact that Agora and BlogNomic are by far the longest- 
> lasting nomics is connected to the fact that they're the only ones 
> referenced from Wikipedia. (That said, the causality may be reversed, 
> i.e. they may have been referenced from Wikipedia due to being long- 
> lived rather than vice versa.)
> 
> --
> ais523
> 


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2019-02-04 Thread Kerim Aydin



I've never looked up Wikipedia on Wikipedia, but it started 2001 (according
to Wikipedia).  Agora was 1993 (Rule 1727), so definitely older.

On 2/4/2019 3:12 PM, David Seeber wrote:

That sounds like the beginning of a thesis. But anyway.

In my opinion it’s Wikipedia mentioning them because they are still around. The 
easiest thing to do would be
a. check the modification records from Wikipedia (I assume that's 
possible because it's all meant to be transparent, right?) and see when they 
were first mentioned
b. Check when Wikipedia itself was founded. It's possible that Agora 
and BlogNomic are older than Wikipedia (anybody?)

-Original Message-
From: agora-discussion  On Behalf Of 
ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk
Sent: 04 February 2019 23:09
To: agora-discussion@agoranomic.org
Subject: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

On Mon, 2019-02-04 at 23:05 +, David Seeber wrote:

Actually it was a good friend of mine who is a sort of board game
nerd. He has a little nomic which he plays with a few friends and
invited me to join in. Whilst checking out what nomics actually are, I
found the Wikipedia page, which talks about Agora being the biggest
nomic still running. And I thought, Hey... Why not?


Theory: the fact that Agora and BlogNomic are by far the longest- lasting 
nomics is connected to the fact that they're the only ones referenced from 
Wikipedia. (That said, the causality may be reversed, i.e. they may have been 
referenced from Wikipedia due to being long- lived rather than vice versa.)

--
ais523



Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2019-02-04 Thread Timon Walshe-Grey
I love that the talk page on that Wikipedia article has an argument about how 
to define a nomic.

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Monday, February 4, 2019 11:16 PM, ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk 
 wrote:

> On Mon, 2019-02-04 at 23:09 +, ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 2019-02-04 at 23:05 +, David Seeber wrote:
> >
> > > Actually it was a good friend of mine who is a sort of board game
> > > nerd. He has a little nomic which he plays with a few friends and
> > > invited me to join in. Whilst checking out what nomics actually
> > > are,
> > > I found the Wikipedia page, which talks about Agora being the
> > > biggest
> > > nomic still running. And I thought, Hey... Why not?
> >
> > Theory: the fact that Agora and BlogNomic are by far the longest-
> > lasting nomics is connected to the fact that they're the only ones
> > referenced from Wikipedia. (That said, the causality may be reversed,
> > i.e. they may have been referenced from Wikipedia due to being long-
> > lived rather than vice versa.)
>
> Further theory after rereading the Wikipedia article: most nomics last
> a sufficiently short time that they're dead before they're mentioned,
> so only long-time active nomics get a chance at being linked in a non-
> defunct state. (There are plenty of nomics mentioned but they're nearly
> all dead, so I didn't mentally count them.)
>
> --
>
> ais523




Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2019-02-04 Thread ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk
On Mon, 2019-02-04 at 23:09 +, ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk wrote:
> On Mon, 2019-02-04 at 23:05 +, David Seeber wrote:
> > Actually it was a good friend of mine who is a sort of board game
> > nerd. He has a little nomic which he plays with a few friends and
> > invited me to join in. Whilst checking out what nomics actually
> > are,
> > I found the Wikipedia page, which talks about Agora being the
> > biggest
> > nomic still running. And I thought, Hey... Why not?
> 
> Theory: the fact that Agora and BlogNomic are by far the longest-
> lasting nomics is connected to the fact that they're the only ones
> referenced from Wikipedia. (That said, the causality may be reversed,
> i.e. they may have been referenced from Wikipedia due to being long-
> lived rather than vice versa.)

Further theory after rereading the Wikipedia article: most nomics last
a sufficiently short time that they're dead before they're mentioned,
so only long-time active nomics get a chance at being linked in a non-
defunct state. (There are plenty of nomics mentioned but they're nearly
all dead, so I didn't mentally count them.)

-- 
ais523



Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2019-02-04 Thread Gaelan Steele
I imagine it’s a cycle.

Gaelan

> On Feb 4, 2019, at 3:09 PM, ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk wrote:
> 
> 
> Theory: the fact that Agora and BlogNomic are by far the longest-
> lasting nomics is connected to the fact that they're the only ones
> referenced from Wikipedia. (That said, the causality may be reversed,
> i.e. they may have been referenced from Wikipedia due to being long-
> lived rather than vice versa.)
> 
> -- 
> ais523



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature


RE: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2019-02-04 Thread David Seeber
That sounds like the beginning of a thesis. But anyway.

In my opinion it’s Wikipedia mentioning them because they are still around. The 
easiest thing to do would be
a. check the modification records from Wikipedia (I assume that's 
possible because it's all meant to be transparent, right?) and see when they 
were first mentioned
b. Check when Wikipedia itself was founded. It's possible that Agora 
and BlogNomic are older than Wikipedia (anybody?)

-Original Message-
From: agora-discussion  On Behalf Of 
ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk
Sent: 04 February 2019 23:09
To: agora-discussion@agoranomic.org
Subject: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

On Mon, 2019-02-04 at 23:05 +, David Seeber wrote:
> Actually it was a good friend of mine who is a sort of board game 
> nerd. He has a little nomic which he plays with a few friends and 
> invited me to join in. Whilst checking out what nomics actually are, I 
> found the Wikipedia page, which talks about Agora being the biggest 
> nomic still running. And I thought, Hey... Why not?

Theory: the fact that Agora and BlogNomic are by far the longest- lasting 
nomics is connected to the fact that they're the only ones referenced from 
Wikipedia. (That said, the causality may be reversed, i.e. they may have been 
referenced from Wikipedia due to being long- lived rather than vice versa.)

--
ais523



Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2019-02-04 Thread ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk
On Mon, 2019-02-04 at 23:05 +, David Seeber wrote:
> Actually it was a good friend of mine who is a sort of board game
> nerd. He has a little nomic which he plays with a few friends and
> invited me to join in. Whilst checking out what nomics actually are,
> I found the Wikipedia page, which talks about Agora being the biggest
> nomic still running. And I thought, Hey... Why not?

Theory: the fact that Agora and BlogNomic are by far the longest-
lasting nomics is connected to the fact that they're the only ones
referenced from Wikipedia. (That said, the causality may be reversed,
i.e. they may have been referenced from Wikipedia due to being long-
lived rather than vice versa.)

-- 
ais523



Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2017-12-15 Thread Cuddle Beam
Hello pokes!!!

On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 12:30 AM, pokes  wrote:

>
> On 12/14/2017 05:58 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:
> >
> > You're a BlogNomic player, aren't you? That would explain it. I
> > remembered reading your username somewhere, and I thought it was the
> > Agoran mailing list archives.
> >
>
> Yup! That must be it.
>
> >
> > They are the current unofficial curreny system. We have an actual
> > economy, based around a currency called shinies, but it's pretty
> > broken right now (constantly running out of supply to pay people, no
> > one has a reason to spend which leads to hoarding, etc.). A major
> > economic reform proposal is in development, but it's taking a while to
> > work out the details. Bills are a replacement currency, operating on a
> > shiny standard (you know, like the gold standard) that had been
> > defined by contract. If you go to the a-o (Agora-official, aka. OFF)
> > archives, and look at the most recent Notary's weekly report, there's
> > a contract called The Agoran Credit Union. It contains further
> > details.
> >
> > -Aris
> >
>
> I see now. This is what I get for not back-reading enough OFF: a very
> helpful explanation.
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2017-12-14 Thread pokes


On 12/14/2017 05:58 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:
>
> You're a BlogNomic player, aren't you? That would explain it. I
> remembered reading your username somewhere, and I thought it was the
> Agoran mailing list archives.
>

Yup! That must be it.

>
> They are the current unofficial curreny system. We have an actual
> economy, based around a currency called shinies, but it's pretty
> broken right now (constantly running out of supply to pay people, no
> one has a reason to spend which leads to hoarding, etc.). A major
> economic reform proposal is in development, but it's taking a while to
> work out the details. Bills are a replacement currency, operating on a
> shiny standard (you know, like the gold standard) that had been
> defined by contract. If you go to the a-o (Agora-official, aka. OFF)
> archives, and look at the most recent Notary's weekly report, there's
> a contract called The Agoran Credit Union. It contains further
> details.
>
> -Aris
>

I see now. This is what I get for not back-reading enough OFF: a very 
helpful explanation.


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2017-12-14 Thread ATMunn

I also recently started working on a proposal based on an old system from
the early 2000s. G. wrote a thesis about the old system, and I decided to
try and see what that would look like today. Not sure when that will be
done, though.

On 12/14/2017 5:58 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:


They are the current unofficial curreny system. We have an actual
economy, based around a currency called shinies, but it's pretty
broken right now (constantly running out of supply to pay people, no
one has a reason to spend which leads to hoarding, etc.). A major
economic reform proposal is in development, but it's taking a while to
work out the details. Bills are a replacement currency, operating on a
shiny standard (you know, like the gold standard) that had been
defined by contract. If you go to the a-o (Agora-official, aka. OFF)
archives, and look at the most recent Notary's weekly report, there's
a contract called The Agoran Credit Union. It contains further
details.

-Aris



Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2017-12-14 Thread Aris Merchant
On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 2:31 PM, pokes  wrote:
>
>> Welcome (back I believe) to Agora!
>>
>> -Aris
>
>
> I'm completely fresh, so excuse a few bumps on the way to my getting up to
> speed.

You're a BlogNomic player, aren't you? That would explain it. I
remembered reading your username somewhere, and I thought it was the
Agoran mailing list archives.

>> Welcome!
>>
>> I transfer 150 bills to pokes.
>
>
> Thanks! But how would one find out what bills are?

They are the current unofficial curreny system. We have an actual
economy, based around a currency called shinies, but it's pretty
broken right now (constantly running out of supply to pay people, no
one has a reason to spend which leads to hoarding, etc.). A major
economic reform proposal is in development, but it's taking a while to
work out the details. Bills are a replacement currency, operating on a
shiny standard (you know, like the gold standard) that had been
defined by contract. If you go to the a-o (Agora-official, aka. OFF)
archives, and look at the most recent Notary's weekly report, there's
a contract called The Agoran Credit Union. It contains further
details.

-Aris


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Apology

2017-10-20 Thread Aris Merchant
On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, 20 Oct 2017, Aris Merchant wrote:
>> Three reasons that would be a bad judgment, which I would likely moot:
>>
>> 1. I'm paying for the CFJ, which means the judge will get paid for it.
>> It wouldn't be very nice to take money and then assign an effectively
>> null judgment.
>
> This is an inappropriate line of thinking, regardless of your other
> arguments.  A CFJ's truth shouldn't be dependent whatsoever on how it
> was paid for.

Yeah, it wouldn't really be a reason to moot. However if the judge is
getting paid for it, it would be nice if they would think about it.,
and come to a conclusion about the subject, even if it isn't one I
agree with.

>> 2. The CFJ concerns a subject of deep game significance. If the rules
>> directly disagree with reality, which one wins? I
>> We've been assuming that the rules do, but I haven't seen a ruling on
>> it. This is probably one of the most important philosophical questions
>> in the history of the game, with many implications for how we play,
>> and it shouldn't just be tossed out unconsidered.
>
> I agree that it's an interesting philosophical point, but there are a few
> rulings on the subject, mainly that "reality wins" in general:
>
> https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?2149
> https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?2150
> https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?1613
>

None of those appear to consider an explicit disagreement between the
game and reality. They primarily deal with what happens when the game
doesn't specify something (reality takes over), and don't resolve this
issue.

>> 3. We have something of a tradition of dealing with hypothetical
>> situations even when they're unlikely to occur, particularly when they
>> clarify the application of existing rules.
>
> While we have "something of a tradition", we only recently voted in this
> language (in June):
>   * IRRELEVANT, appropriate if the veracity of the statement is
> not relevant to the game or is an overly hypothetical
> extrapolation of the game or its rules to conditions
> The fact that we explicitly added it to the Rules means we should re-
> interpret this standard in light of recent legislative action, and (IMO)
> be more ready to call hypothetical situations IRRELEVANT.

As I understand, that was a reenactment of previous text to allow for
more specificity in judgments. I wouldn't really object if someone
judged it IRRELEVANT per se, but I think it deserves an answer in
addition to the judgement.

-Aris


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Apology

2017-10-20 Thread Kerim Aydin



On Fri, 20 Oct 2017, Aris Merchant wrote:
> Three reasons that would be a bad judgment, which I would likely moot:
> 
> 1. I'm paying for the CFJ, which means the judge will get paid for it.
> It wouldn't be very nice to take money and then assign an effectively
> null judgment.

This is an inappropriate line of thinking, regardless of your other 
arguments.  A CFJ's truth shouldn't be dependent whatsoever on how it 
was paid for.


> 2. The CFJ concerns a subject of deep game significance. If the rules
> directly disagree with reality, which one wins? I
> We've been assuming that the rules do, but I haven't seen a ruling on
> it. This is probably one of the most important philosophical questions
> in the history of the game, with many implications for how we play,
> and it shouldn't just be tossed out unconsidered.

I agree that it's an interesting philosophical point, but there are a few
rulings on the subject, mainly that "reality wins" in general:

https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?2149
https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?2150
https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?1613


> 3. We have something of a tradition of dealing with hypothetical
> situations even when they're unlikely to occur, particularly when they
> clarify the application of existing rules. 

While we have "something of a tradition", we only recently voted in this 
language (in June):
  * IRRELEVANT, appropriate if the veracity of the statement is
not relevant to the game or is an overly hypothetical
extrapolation of the game or its rules to conditions 
The fact that we explicitly added it to the Rules means we should re-
interpret this standard in light of recent legislative action, and (IMO) 
be more ready to call hypothetical situations IRRELEVANT.


> See, for instance, CFJs
> 1147 (really strong precedent), 1887, etc. Admittedly we sometimes do
> the opposite, but it does support the other two.
> 
> -Aris
> 
> On Oct 20, 2017 7:00 PM, "VJ Rada"  wrote:
> >
> > I would judge IRRELEVANT:  situation appears to be too hypothetical
> > and attenuated to be a useful clarification of the game state.
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 12:59 PM, Alexis Hunt  wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 at 21:53 Aris Merchant
> > >  wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Actually, given that this makes things more interesting... I SH-CFJ (or
> > >> AP-CFJ if the action would otherwise fail due to lack of shinies) "If 
> > >> there
> > >> were currently a power 3.9 rule purpoting to allow any person to destroy 
> > >> the
> > >> universe by announcement, without defining the effect of this action, 
> > >> and I
> > >> announced that I destroyed the universe in that way (all other aspects of
> > >> the gamestate being as they are now), my announcement would, as far as 
> > >> the
> > >> game is concerned, have the effect it purported to have." I request that 
> > >> the
> > >> judge consider the situation both with and without existing power 4 rules
> > >> (101, 1698, and 2029) and also whether the destruction of the universe in
> > >> this way would have practical effect upon the game. I also request that 
> > >> the
> > >> H. Arbitor link the cases and that they have a combined caselog. I'll
> > >> probably have more arguments later, and invite the arguments of others.
> > >>
> > >> -Aris
> > >
> > >
> > > Arguments: FALSE, because Agora Is A Nomic.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > From V.J. Rada





Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Apology

2017-10-20 Thread Aris Merchant
Three reasons that would be a bad judgment, which I would likely moot:

1. I'm paying for the CFJ, which means the judge will get paid for it.
It wouldn't be very nice to take money and then assign an effectively
null judgment.

2. The CFJ concerns a subject of deep game signifcance. If the rules
directly disagree with reality, which one wins? I
We've been assuming that the rules do, but I haven't seen a ruling on
it. This is probably one of the most important philosophical questions
in the history of the game, with many implications for how we play,
and it shouldn't just be tossed out unconsidered.

3. We have something of a tradition of dealing with hypothetical
situations even when they're unlikely to occur, particularly when they
clarify the application of existing rules. See, for instance, CFJs
1147 (really strong precedent), 1887, etc. Admittedly we sometimes do
the opposite, but it does support the other two.

-Aris

On Oct 20, 2017 7:00 PM, "VJ Rada"  wrote:
>
> I would judge IRRELEVANT:  situation appears to be too hypothetical
> and attenuated to be a useful clarification of the game state.
>
> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 12:59 PM, Alexis Hunt  wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 at 21:53 Aris Merchant
> >  wrote:
> >>
> >> Actually, given that this makes things more interesting... I SH-CFJ (or
> >> AP-CFJ if the action would otherwise fail due to lack of shinies) "If there
> >> were currently a power 3.9 rule purpoting to allow any person to destroy 
> >> the
> >> universe by announcement, without defining the effect of this action, and I
> >> announced that I destroyed the universe in that way (all other aspects of
> >> the gamestate being as they are now), my announcement would, as far as the
> >> game is concerned, have the effect it purported to have." I request that 
> >> the
> >> judge consider the situation both with and without existing power 4 rules
> >> (101, 1698, and 2029) and also whether the destruction of the universe in
> >> this way would have practical effect upon the game. I also request that the
> >> H. Arbitor link the cases and that they have a combined caselog. I'll
> >> probably have more arguments later, and invite the arguments of others.
> >>
> >> -Aris
> >
> >
> > Arguments: FALSE, because Agora Is A Nomic.
>
>
>
> --
> From V.J. Rada


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Apology

2017-10-20 Thread VJ Rada
Is the safety-valve super-secret propitietery technology?

On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 1:32 PM, Alex Smith  wrote:
> On Fri, 2017-10-20 at 19:24 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017, Alex Smith wrote:
>> > On Fri, 2017-10-20 at 18:28 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>> > > I submit the following Proposal, "Don't vote for this", AI-3, and
>> > > AP-pend it:
>> >
>> > The created rule wouldn't actually work (for interesting reasons which
>> > are almost along the line of a scam). That said, that's not something
>> > I'd like to rely on.
>>
>> Yah, that was the safety (at least the reason I have in mind that it won't
>> work - dunno if it's same as yours).  Suppose I could fix it pretty simply...
>
> Is it becoming a thing to write Terrible Proposals but to make sure
> that they don't work, on the basis that it can be very hard to prevent
> them passing?
>
> (That said, this one only seems to have one safety valve, unless you
> consider the name. The last time I wrote a Terrible Proposal it had a
> safety valve /and/ insufficient Power to work.)
>
> --
> ais523



-- 
>From V.J. Rada


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Apology

2017-10-20 Thread Alex Smith
On Fri, 2017-10-20 at 19:24 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017, Alex Smith wrote:
> > On Fri, 2017-10-20 at 18:28 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > > I submit the following Proposal, "Don't vote for this", AI-3, and 
> > > AP-pend it:
> > 
> > The created rule wouldn't actually work (for interesting reasons which
> > are almost along the line of a scam). That said, that's not something
> > I'd like to rely on.
> 
> Yah, that was the safety (at least the reason I have in mind that it won't
> work - dunno if it's same as yours).  Suppose I could fix it pretty simply...

Is it becoming a thing to write Terrible Proposals but to make sure
that they don't work, on the basis that it can be very hard to prevent
them passing?

(That said, this one only seems to have one safety valve, unless you
consider the name. The last time I wrote a Terrible Proposal it had a
safety valve /and/ insufficient Power to work.)

-- 
ais523


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Apology

2017-10-20 Thread Kerim Aydin


On Sat, 21 Oct 2017, Alex Smith wrote:
> On Fri, 2017-10-20 at 18:28 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > I submit the following Proposal, "Don't vote for this", AI-3, and 
> > AP-pend it:
> 
> The created rule wouldn't actually work (for interesting reasons which
> are almost along the line of a scam). That said, that's not something
> I'd like to rely on.

Yah, that was the safety (at least the reason I have in mind that it won't
work - dunno if it's same as yours).  Suppose I could fix it pretty simply...




Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Apology

2017-10-20 Thread Aris Merchant
I've requested that the judge consider what would happen in that rule's
absence.
-Aris

On Oct 20, 2017 6:59 PM, "Alexis Hunt"  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 at 21:53 Aris Merchant  gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Actually, given that this makes things more interesting... I SH-CFJ (or
>> AP-CFJ if the action would otherwise fail due to lack of shinies) "If there
>> were currently a power 3.9 rule purpoting to allow any person to destroy
>> the universe by announcement, without defining the effect of this action,
>> and I announced that I destroyed the universe in that way (all other
>> aspects of the gamestate being as they are now), my announcement would, as
>> far as the game is concerned, have the effect it purported to have." I
>> request that the judge consider the situation both with and without
>> existing power 4 rules (101, 1698, and 2029) and also whether the
>> destruction of the universe in this way would have practical effect upon
>> the game. I also request that the H. Arbitor link the cases and that they
>> have a combined caselog. I'll probably have more arguments later, and
>> invite the arguments of others.
>>
>> -Aris
>>
>
> Arguments: FALSE, because Agora Is A Nomic.
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Apology

2017-10-20 Thread Alex Smith
On Fri, 2017-10-20 at 18:28 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> I submit the following Proposal, "Don't vote for this", AI-3, and 
> AP-pend it:

The created rule wouldn't actually work (for interesting reasons which
are almost along the line of a scam). That said, that's not something
I'd like to rely on.

-- 
ais523


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Apology

2017-10-20 Thread Alex Smith
On Sat, 2017-10-21 at 09:32 +1100, Madeline wrote:
> I intend to win the game with two days' notice, in accordance with
> Rule 7923. (Does this really work before it's even a rule?)

Dependent action intents work "backwards". The intent itself doesn't do
anything, but the resolution of the dependent action looks back in time
to see if there was a matching intent.

This means that you can intend to do something that isn't currently
possible, in the hope that it'll become possible by the time the intent
is resolved.

-- 
ais523


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Apology

2017-10-20 Thread VJ Rada
I would judge IRRELEVANT:  situation appears to be too hypothetical
and attenuated to be a useful clarification of the game state.

On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 12:59 PM, Alexis Hunt  wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 at 21:53 Aris Merchant
>  wrote:
>>
>> Actually, given that this makes things more interesting... I SH-CFJ (or
>> AP-CFJ if the action would otherwise fail due to lack of shinies) "If there
>> were currently a power 3.9 rule purpoting to allow any person to destroy the
>> universe by announcement, without defining the effect of this action, and I
>> announced that I destroyed the universe in that way (all other aspects of
>> the gamestate being as they are now), my announcement would, as far as the
>> game is concerned, have the effect it purported to have." I request that the
>> judge consider the situation both with and without existing power 4 rules
>> (101, 1698, and 2029) and also whether the destruction of the universe in
>> this way would have practical effect upon the game. I also request that the
>> H. Arbitor link the cases and that they have a combined caselog. I'll
>> probably have more arguments later, and invite the arguments of others.
>>
>> -Aris
>
>
> Arguments: FALSE, because Agora Is A Nomic.



-- 
>From V.J. Rada


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Apology

2017-10-20 Thread Alexis Hunt
On Fri, 20 Oct 2017 at 21:53 Aris Merchant <
thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Actually, given that this makes things more interesting... I SH-CFJ (or
> AP-CFJ if the action would otherwise fail due to lack of shinies) "If there
> were currently a power 3.9 rule purpoting to allow any person to destroy
> the universe by announcement, without defining the effect of this action,
> and I announced that I destroyed the universe in that way (all other
> aspects of the gamestate being as they are now), my announcement would, as
> far as the game is concerned, have the effect it purported to have." I
> request that the judge consider the situation both with and without
> existing power 4 rules (101, 1698, and 2029) and also whether the
> destruction of the universe in this way would have practical effect upon
> the game. I also request that the H. Arbitor link the cases and that they
> have a combined caselog. I'll probably have more arguments later, and
> invite the arguments of others.
>
> -Aris
>

Arguments: FALSE, because Agora Is A Nomic.


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Apology

2017-10-20 Thread ATMunn .
Okay, how did this go from "The shiny balance can not be negative because
it is an asset, not a switch." to "Any Player CAN destroy the universe With
Notice."

On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 9:28 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> I submit the following Proposal, "Don't vote for this", AI-3, and
> AP-pend it:
>
> --
>
> Create the following power-3 Rule, "A very very bad idea":
>
>   Any Player CAN destroy the universe With Notice.  When the
>   universe is destroyed, all assets are destroyed and all
>   switches are set to their default values, simultaneously.
>
> --
>
> (I note that this could be adopted within the 14 days before Aris's
> intent message expires).
>
>
> On Fri, 20 Oct 2017, Aris Merchant wrote:
> > Arguments: The universe is certainly too large for me to destroy on my
> > own. My intent clearly also doesn't do anything, because no rule
> > permits it to take effect. However, it is my belief that since Agora
> > is, for game purposes, both omniscient and omnipotent, if a rule
> > permitted my intent it would succeed. This probably wouldn't do
> > anything though, because nothing would cause any aspect of the
> > gamestate to stop existing, or even necessarily the players.
> >
> > -Aris
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 6:10 PM, ATMunn . 
> wrote:
> > > I CFJ with AP on the following statement:
> > > Aris's intent to destroy the universe is valid.
> > >
> > > Caller's arguments: The universe is too large for Aris to destroy.
> > >
> > > [What a stupid thing for my first ever CFJ to be. I love it. I honestly
> > > don't care how this is judged.]
> > >
> > > On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 8:24 PM, Aris Merchant
> > >  wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I intend to destroy the universe with notice.
> > >>
> > >> -Aris
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 5:22 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> > >>  wrote:
> > >> > I intend t win the game with two days' notice, as described in
> Proposal
> > >> > 7923.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On 10/20/2017 06:36 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017, Madeline wrote:
> > >> >>> I intend to win the game with two days' notice, in accordance with
> > >> >>> Rule 7923.
> > >> >>> (Does this really work before it's even a rule?)
> > >> >> Yes, but it's not Rule 7923 (that's the proposal), saying it was
> "Rule
> > >> >> 7923"
> > >> >> instead of "as described in Proposal 7923" might make this
> announcement
> > >> >> wrong
> > >> >> enough to fail.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> It works because in Rule 1728, the requirements are worded
> backwards in
> > >> >> time;
> > >> >> the action works if the rules allow it *when you try to finish the
> > >> >> action*,
> > >> >> provided you announced the intent a few days before - and the rule
> > >> >> doesn't
> > >> >> care that the action wasn't possible those few days before when you
> > >> >> announced
> > >> >> the intent.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> -G.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Apology

2017-10-20 Thread Kerim Aydin


On Fri, 20 Oct 2017, Aris Merchant wrote:
> I intend to destroy the universe with notice.

https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?2150





Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Apology

2017-10-20 Thread Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
If supporting this message is allowable, I do so.


On 10/20/2017 08:24 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:
> I intend to destroy the universe with notice.
>
> -Aris
>
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 5:22 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>  wrote:
>> I intend t win the game with two days' notice, as described in Proposal
>> 7923.
>>
>>
>> On 10/20/2017 06:36 PM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017, Madeline wrote:
 I intend to win the game with two days' notice, in accordance with Rule 
 7923.
 (Does this really work before it's even a rule?)
>>> Yes, but it's not Rule 7923 (that's the proposal), saying it was "Rule 7923"
>>> instead of "as described in Proposal 7923" might make this announcement 
>>> wrong
>>> enough to fail.
>>>
>>> It works because in Rule 1728, the requirements are worded backwards in 
>>> time;
>>> the action works if the rules allow it *when you try to finish the action*,
>>> provided you announced the intent a few days before - and the rule doesn't
>>> care that the action wasn't possible those few days before when you 
>>> announced
>>> the intent.
>>>
>>> -G.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Apology

2017-10-20 Thread VJ Rada
I already have a proposal which ties the Supply Value to the number of
players every month. Called (if I recall) "slightly more responsible
Zimbabwean-style economics".



On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 9:37 AM, ATMunn .  wrote:
> That's an interesting idea. I feel like this could be scammable though. Then
> again, what isn't scammable?
>
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 6:34 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Why not just change it so a Welcome package Creates money rather than
>> transferring it?  (and to balance it, the secretary can destroy money
>> if total is above some multiple of # of players).
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017, VJ Rada wrote:
>> > By the way, with this registration we have 20 players and 1000
>> > shinies. It's literally only possible for everyone to claim a welcome
>> > package if nobody gained any more money than that. We need to print
>> > money.
>> >
>> > On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 9:22 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:
>> > > I pay Telnaior 5 shinies.
>> > >
>> > > On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 7:42 AM, Telnaior  wrote:
>> > >> I flip my Citizenship to Registered.
>> > >>
>> > >> For recordkeeping purposes, my username is Telnaior and I was
>> > >> previously
>> > >> deregistered in 2014.
>> > >>
>> > >> Anyways, I'm going to apologise, I feel bad for causing trouble so
>> > >> early but
>> > >> I haven't been able to find anything in the rules that prevents
>> > >> Agora's (or
>> > >> anyone's) shiny balance from going negative, is there? (This might be
>> > >> my
>> > >> first target for proposal, perhaps)
>> > >>
>> > >> I receive my Welcome Package, claiming 50 shinies from Agora.
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > From V.J. Rada
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > From V.J. Rada
>> >
>>
>



-- 
>From V.J. Rada


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Apology

2017-10-20 Thread Kerim Aydin



On Sat, 21 Oct 2017, Madeline wrote:
> I intend to win the game with two days' notice, in accordance with Rule 7923.
> (Does this really work before it's even a rule?)

Yes, but it's not Rule 7923 (that's the proposal), saying it was "Rule 7923"
instead of "as described in Proposal 7923" might make this announcement wrong
enough to fail.

It works because in Rule 1728, the requirements are worded backwards in time;
the action works if the rules allow it *when you try to finish the action*,
provided you announced the intent a few days before - and the rule doesn't
care that the action wasn't possible those few days before when you announced
the intent.

-G.





Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Apology

2017-10-20 Thread Madeline
Another option could be to go all the way with this and remove the 
supply limit altogether, making shinies destructible and having costs 
based on how many are possessed by players, then rewards either fully 
constant or based on some kind of logarithmic function? (Having them 
tied linearly to how many are in play just invites hyperinflation, I think)
You'd want a lot more player-to-player shiny transaction if we went with 
this route, though.


On 2017-10-21 09:37, ATMunn . wrote:
That's an interesting idea. I feel like this could be scammable 
though. Then again, what isn't scammable?


On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 6:34 PM, Kerim Aydin > wrote:




Why not just change it so a Welcome package Creates money rather than
transferring it?  (and to balance it, the secretary can destroy money
if total is above some multiple of # of players).


On Sat, 21 Oct 2017, VJ Rada wrote:
> By the way, with this registration we have 20 players and 1000
> shinies. It's literally only possible for everyone to claim a
welcome
> package if nobody gained any more money than that. We need to print
> money.
>
> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 9:22 AM, VJ Rada > wrote:
> > I pay Telnaior 5 shinies.
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 7:42 AM, Telnaior > wrote:
> >> I flip my Citizenship to Registered.
> >>
> >> For recordkeeping purposes, my username is Telnaior and I was
previously
> >> deregistered in 2014.
> >>
> >> Anyways, I'm going to apologise, I feel bad for causing
trouble so early but
> >> I haven't been able to find anything in the rules that
prevents Agora's (or
> >> anyone's) shiny balance from going negative, is there? (This
might be my
> >> first target for proposal, perhaps)
> >>
> >> I receive my Welcome Package, claiming 50 shinies from Agora.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > From V.J. Rada
>
>
>
> --
> From V.J. Rada
>




Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Apology

2017-10-20 Thread ATMunn .
That's an interesting idea. I feel like this could be scammable though.
Then again, what isn't scammable?

On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 6:34 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> Why not just change it so a Welcome package Creates money rather than
> transferring it?  (and to balance it, the secretary can destroy money
> if total is above some multiple of # of players).
>
>
> On Sat, 21 Oct 2017, VJ Rada wrote:
> > By the way, with this registration we have 20 players and 1000
> > shinies. It's literally only possible for everyone to claim a welcome
> > package if nobody gained any more money than that. We need to print
> > money.
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 9:22 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> > > I pay Telnaior 5 shinies.
> > >
> > > On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 7:42 AM, Telnaior  wrote:
> > >> I flip my Citizenship to Registered.
> > >>
> > >> For recordkeeping purposes, my username is Telnaior and I was
> previously
> > >> deregistered in 2014.
> > >>
> > >> Anyways, I'm going to apologise, I feel bad for causing trouble so
> early but
> > >> I haven't been able to find anything in the rules that prevents
> Agora's (or
> > >> anyone's) shiny balance from going negative, is there? (This might be
> my
> > >> first target for proposal, perhaps)
> > >>
> > >> I receive my Welcome Package, claiming 50 shinies from Agora.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > From V.J. Rada
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > From V.J. Rada
> >
>
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Apology

2017-10-20 Thread Kerim Aydin


Why not just change it so a Welcome package Creates money rather than
transferring it?  (and to balance it, the secretary can destroy money
if total is above some multiple of # of players).


On Sat, 21 Oct 2017, VJ Rada wrote:
> By the way, with this registration we have 20 players and 1000
> shinies. It's literally only possible for everyone to claim a welcome
> package if nobody gained any more money than that. We need to print
> money.
> 
> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 9:22 AM, VJ Rada  wrote:
> > I pay Telnaior 5 shinies.
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 7:42 AM, Telnaior  wrote:
> >> I flip my Citizenship to Registered.
> >>
> >> For recordkeeping purposes, my username is Telnaior and I was previously
> >> deregistered in 2014.
> >>
> >> Anyways, I'm going to apologise, I feel bad for causing trouble so early 
> >> but
> >> I haven't been able to find anything in the rules that prevents Agora's (or
> >> anyone's) shiny balance from going negative, is there? (This might be my
> >> first target for proposal, perhaps)
> >>
> >> I receive my Welcome Package, claiming 50 shinies from Agora.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > From V.J. Rada
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> From V.J. Rada
>



Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Apology

2017-10-20 Thread Madeline

On 2017-10-21 09:22, Kerim Aydin wrote:


Telnaior - you should announce intent to win with 2 days notice, in
case proposal 7923 passes...

On Fri, 20 Oct 2017, ATMunn . wrote:

Speaking of...

If Telnaior's shiny balance is 0 as of the sending of this message, I transfer 
10 shinies to Telnaior.

I included the conditional in case Agora did have enough shinies for the 
welcome package to succeed. I don't think it did, however.

On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 6:05 PM, ATMunn .  wrote:
   Eh, you'll get money soon enough. Welcome! I'm Agora's second-newest 
player before you registered (I think), so I'm still learning the ropes.

On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 4:52 PM, Madeline  wrote:
   That's both the most disappointing (but perhaps the most sensible) 
interpretation and means I'm stuck being broke D:

   On 2017-10-21 07:47, Aris Merchant wrote:
 The generally accepted interpretation is that the action entirely
 fails. Welcome back!

 -Aris



 On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Madeline  
wrote:
   Alright, so what... does happen? It specifies you can't 
destroy a stamp if
   Agora can't pay the balance, but nothing else has a similar 
clause which
   suggests it's intended to still be possible.


   On 2017-10-21 07:44, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
 The shiny balance can not be negative because it is an 
asset, not a
 switch.


 On 10/20/2017 04:42 PM, Telnaior wrote:
   I flip my Citizenship to Registered.

   For recordkeeping purposes, my username is 
Telnaior and I was
   previously deregistered in 2014.

   Anyways, I'm going to apologise, I feel bad for 
causing trouble so
   early but I haven't been able to find anything 
in the rules that
   prevents Agora's (or anyone's) shiny balance 
from going negative, is
   there? (This might be my first target for 
proposal, perhaps)

   I receive my Welcome Package, claiming 50 
shinies from Agora.


I intend to win the game with two days' notice, in accordance with Rule 
7923. (Does this really work before it's even a rule?)


In all seriousness, though, how should we actually fix this mess? My 
first thought is to make a second floating value attached to how many 
shinies are in players' hands and use that to determine costs, then 
rename the current floating value to "reward value" or something like 
that and only use it to determine rewards (and perhaps also attach it to 
report rewards and others that currently aren't as well? It shouldn't 
ever be possible for the money to run out, and I feel like letting 
things round down to 0 is a better choice)




Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Apology

2017-10-20 Thread Kerim Aydin


Telnaior - you should announce intent to win with 2 days notice, in 
case proposal 7923 passes...

On Fri, 20 Oct 2017, ATMunn . wrote:
> Speaking of...
> 
> If Telnaior's shiny balance is 0 as of the sending of this message, I 
> transfer 10 shinies to Telnaior.
> 
> I included the conditional in case Agora did have enough shinies for the 
> welcome package to succeed. I don't think it did, however.
> 
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 6:05 PM, ATMunn .  wrote:
>   Eh, you'll get money soon enough. Welcome! I'm Agora's second-newest 
> player before you registered (I think), so I'm still learning the ropes.
> 
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 4:52 PM, Madeline  wrote:
>   That's both the most disappointing (but perhaps the most sensible) 
> interpretation and means I'm stuck being broke D:
> 
>   On 2017-10-21 07:47, Aris Merchant wrote:
> The generally accepted interpretation is that the action entirely
> fails. Welcome back!
> 
> -Aris
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Madeline  
> wrote:
>   Alright, so what... does happen? It specifies you can't 
> destroy a stamp if
>   Agora can't pay the balance, but nothing else has a similar 
> clause which
>   suggests it's intended to still be possible.
> 
> 
>   On 2017-10-21 07:44, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
> The shiny balance can not be negative because it is 
> an asset, not a
> switch.
> 
> 
> On 10/20/2017 04:42 PM, Telnaior wrote:
>   I flip my Citizenship to Registered.
> 
>   For recordkeeping purposes, my username is 
> Telnaior and I was
>   previously deregistered in 2014.
> 
>   Anyways, I'm going to apologise, I feel bad for 
> causing trouble so
>   early but I haven't been able to find anything 
> in the rules that
>   prevents Agora's (or anyone's) shiny balance 
> from going negative, is
>   there? (This might be my first target for 
> proposal, perhaps)
> 
>   I receive my Welcome Package, claiming 50 
> shinies from Agora.




Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Apology

2017-10-20 Thread ATMunn .
Eh, you'll get money soon enough. Welcome! I'm Agora's second-newest player
before you registered (I think), so I'm still learning the ropes.

On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 4:52 PM, Madeline  wrote:

> That's both the most disappointing (but perhaps the most sensible)
> interpretation and means I'm stuck being broke D:
>
>
> On 2017-10-21 07:47, Aris Merchant wrote:
>
>> The generally accepted interpretation is that the action entirely
>> fails. Welcome back!
>>
>> -Aris
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Madeline  wrote:
>>
>>> Alright, so what... does happen? It specifies you can't destroy a stamp
>>> if
>>> Agora can't pay the balance, but nothing else has a similar clause which
>>> suggests it's intended to still be possible.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2017-10-21 07:44, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
>>>
 The shiny balance can not be negative because it is an asset, not a
 switch.


 On 10/20/2017 04:42 PM, Telnaior wrote:

> I flip my Citizenship to Registered.
>
> For recordkeeping purposes, my username is Telnaior and I was
> previously deregistered in 2014.
>
> Anyways, I'm going to apologise, I feel bad for causing trouble so
> early but I haven't been able to find anything in the rules that
> prevents Agora's (or anyone's) shiny balance from going negative, is
> there? (This might be my first target for proposal, perhaps)
>
> I receive my Welcome Package, claiming 50 shinies from Agora.
>

>
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Apology

2017-10-20 Thread Madeline
That's both the most disappointing (but perhaps the most sensible) 
interpretation and means I'm stuck being broke D:


On 2017-10-21 07:47, Aris Merchant wrote:

The generally accepted interpretation is that the action entirely
fails. Welcome back!

-Aris



On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Madeline  wrote:

Alright, so what... does happen? It specifies you can't destroy a stamp if
Agora can't pay the balance, but nothing else has a similar clause which
suggests it's intended to still be possible.


On 2017-10-21 07:44, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:

The shiny balance can not be negative because it is an asset, not a
switch.


On 10/20/2017 04:42 PM, Telnaior wrote:

I flip my Citizenship to Registered.

For recordkeeping purposes, my username is Telnaior and I was
previously deregistered in 2014.

Anyways, I'm going to apologise, I feel bad for causing trouble so
early but I haven't been able to find anything in the rules that
prevents Agora's (or anyone's) shiny balance from going negative, is
there? (This might be my first target for proposal, perhaps)

I receive my Welcome Package, claiming 50 shinies from Agora.





Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Apology

2017-10-20 Thread Aris Merchant
The generally accepted interpretation is that the action entirely
fails. Welcome back!

-Aris



On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Madeline  wrote:
> Alright, so what... does happen? It specifies you can't destroy a stamp if
> Agora can't pay the balance, but nothing else has a similar clause which
> suggests it's intended to still be possible.
>
>
> On 2017-10-21 07:44, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:
>>
>> The shiny balance can not be negative because it is an asset, not a
>> switch.
>>
>>
>> On 10/20/2017 04:42 PM, Telnaior wrote:
>>>
>>> I flip my Citizenship to Registered.
>>>
>>> For recordkeeping purposes, my username is Telnaior and I was
>>> previously deregistered in 2014.
>>>
>>> Anyways, I'm going to apologise, I feel bad for causing trouble so
>>> early but I haven't been able to find anything in the rules that
>>> prevents Agora's (or anyone's) shiny balance from going negative, is
>>> there? (This might be my first target for proposal, perhaps)
>>>
>>> I receive my Welcome Package, claiming 50 shinies from Agora.


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration and Apology

2017-10-20 Thread Madeline
Alright, so what... does happen? It specifies you can't destroy a stamp 
if Agora can't pay the balance, but nothing else has a similar clause 
which suggests it's intended to still be possible.


On 2017-10-21 07:44, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote:

The shiny balance can not be negative because it is an asset, not a switch.


On 10/20/2017 04:42 PM, Telnaior wrote:

I flip my Citizenship to Registered.

For recordkeeping purposes, my username is Telnaior and I was
previously deregistered in 2014.

Anyways, I'm going to apologise, I feel bad for causing trouble so
early but I haven't been able to find anything in the rules that
prevents Agora's (or anyone's) shiny balance from going negative, is
there? (This might be my first target for proposal, perhaps)

I receive my Welcome Package, claiming 50 shinies from Agora.


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration as a player

2017-07-29 Thread Owen Jacobson
On Sat, 2017-07-29 at 10:12 -0700, Ajay Kumar Raja wrote:

> I would like to register as a player.

Welcome to Agora!

On Jul 29, 2017, at 1:17 PM, Alex Smith  wrote:

> Welcome!
> 
> Just as a note, you normally have to be quite precise with your
> language when taking actions in Agora (registration is an exception,
> which is why this (probably) works). Saying that you'd like to do an
> action isn't necessarily the same as actually doing it.


As a necessary consequence of that, it is socially acceptable, and expected, 
that you will be direct when performing an action. It would not have been rude 
or impolite to write “I register as a player,” rather than “I would like to 
register as a player.”

That registration was almost certainly effective anyways, but when it comes 
time to vote on proposals, be blunt and be bold.

-o



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Description: Message signed with OpenPGP


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2017-06-07 Thread V.J Rada
Well I've been lurking around for a while reading things but when I first
considered joining it seemed pretty dead with some kind of dictatorship
going on? But now it seems flourishing and so I thought it was the optimal
time to join here.

On Thu, Jun 8, 2017 at 12:44 AM, Quazie  wrote:

> Welcome!
>
> How did you find us?  What brings you here?
>
> On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 03:09 ben keil  wrote:
>
>> Hello, I, V.J. Rada aka vijar...@gmail.com register for this game.
>>
>


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2017-05-15 Thread Owen Jacobson
On May 16, 2017, at 12:16 AM, Alex Smith  wrote:
> On Mon, 2017-05-15 at 22:10 -0400, Owen Jacobson wrote:
>>> On May 13, 2017, at 3:01 AM, Quazie  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 09:57 tmanthe2nd . >> > wrote:
>>> I register as a player.
>>> 
>>> I give tmanthe2nd 1 Shiney if e tells us how e found agora and what
>>> compelled em to join.
>> 
>> Is this sort of triggered action effective? If so, when should I
>> conclude that Quazie has actually performed it?
> 
> Except when voting, conditionals in actions have to be evaluated at the
> time the action is made. Conditionals talking about events in the
> future therefore are always too ambiguous to succeed.

Thanks.

-o



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Description: Message signed with OpenPGP


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2017-05-15 Thread Alex Smith
On Mon, 2017-05-15 at 22:10 -0400, Owen Jacobson wrote:
> > On May 13, 2017, at 3:01 AM, Quazie  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 09:57 tmanthe2nd .  > > wrote:
> > I register as a player.
> > 
> > I give tmanthe2nd 1 Shiney if e tells us how e found agora and what
> > compelled em to join.
> 
> Is this sort of triggered action effective? If so, when should I
> conclude that Quazie has actually performed it?

Except when voting, conditionals in actions have to be evaluated at the
time the action is made. Conditionals talking about events in the
future therefore are always too ambiguous to succeed.

-- 
ais523


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: registration stadjer

2015-04-13 Thread Kerim Aydin


On Wed, 8 Apr 2015, Tanner Swett wrote:
 On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu wrote:
  In all seriousness, I think most dead periods ended when someone put forward
  a new Proposal with a set of new rules for a new Game Play idea, and also 
  ran
  it long enough to work out the bugs in the idea.  If the game is relatively
  easy to get into, enough other waiting players tended to jump right in.
 
  We saw it begin to happen with the Dungeon Master a couple months ago; 
  people
  jumped in.  But then a bug happened, and the original D.M. didn't care 
  enough
  (or have the time) to fix it, so it just died out when e didn't do so.
 
 I have a tendency to alternate between putting several hours a week
 into Agora and not playing at all. Maybe I should try to consistently
 put in exactly one hour a week, or something like that. Y'know, after
 I get everything *else* in my life sorted out. Which I'm going to have
 done, like, any month now.

Sorry, wasn't meant as a dig... I flaked out running last year's game myself. 
-G.





Re: DIS: Re: BUS: registration stadjer

2015-04-13 Thread Tanner Swett
On Mon, Apr 13, 2015 at 2:19 PM, Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu wrote:
 On Wed, 8 Apr 2015, Tanner Swett wrote:
  We saw it begin to happen with the Dungeon Master a couple months ago; 
  people
  jumped in.  But then a bug happened, and the original D.M. didn't care 
  enough
  (or have the time) to fix it, so it just died out when e didn't do so.

 I have a tendency to alternate between putting several hours a week
 into Agora and not playing at all. Maybe I should try to consistently
 put in exactly one hour a week, or something like that. Y'know, after
 I get everything *else* in my life sorted out. Which I'm going to have
 done, like, any month now.

 Sorry, wasn't meant as a dig... I flaked out running last year's game myself. 
 -G.

No worries, I didn't take it that way at all.

--(what's my nickname right now, again?)


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: registration stadjer

2015-04-08 Thread Tanner Swett
On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu wrote:
 In all seriousness, I think most dead periods ended when someone put forward
 a new Proposal with a set of new rules for a new Game Play idea, and also ran
 it long enough to work out the bugs in the idea.  If the game is relatively
 easy to get into, enough other waiting players tended to jump right in.

 We saw it begin to happen with the Dungeon Master a couple months ago; people
 jumped in.  But then a bug happened, and the original D.M. didn't care enough
 (or have the time) to fix it, so it just died out when e didn't do so.

I have a tendency to alternate between putting several hours a week
into Agora and not playing at all. Maybe I should try to consistently
put in exactly one hour a week, or something like that. Y'know, after
I get everything *else* in my life sorted out. Which I'm going to have
done, like, any month now.

--the original DM


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: registration stadjer

2015-03-28 Thread stad jer
I think I'll try to work out a new draft of the proposal on Organizations
then.
That is, unless someone thinks I better can spend time on an older draft?

stadjer

2015-03-26 20:38 GMT+01:00 Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu:



 On Thu, 26 Mar 2015, Benjamin Schultz wrote:
  On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 6:12 AM, stad jer stadjerno...@gmail.com
 wrote:
I'm willing to perform administrative duties after a revival, but
 I don't know how much game-experience one needs for that.
  How did Agora survive dead points like this in the past?
 
  stadjer, I suggest you do these:
 
  1. Read the most recently published Short Logical Ruleset (SLR), if you
 haven't already.
  2. Propose all sorts of rule changes.
 
  That will give you plenty of game experience.
 
  OscarMeyr

 In all seriousness, I think most dead periods ended when someone put
 forward
 a new Proposal with a set of new rules for a new Game Play idea, and also
 ran
 it long enough to work out the bugs in the idea.  If the game is relatively
 easy to get into, enough other waiting players tended to jump right in.

 We saw it begin to happen with the Dungeon Master a couple months ago;
 people
 jumped in.  But then a bug happened, and the original D.M. didn't care
 enough
 (or have the time) to fix it, so it just died out when e didn't do so.

 If you write your own rules for such a game/addition, you'll be the
 expert on
 those rules to begin with.  Though they might not all work as you intend
 exactly, so if you do this, please post drafts of your proposal before you
 formally propose it; one thing our collective experience helps in is
 finding
 bugs.

 -G.






Re: DIS: Re: BUS: registration stadjer

2015-03-26 Thread stad jer
I'm willing to perform administrative duties after a revival, but I don't
know how much game-experience one needs for that.
How did Agora survive dead points like this in the past?

2015-03-25 23:47 GMT+01:00 Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu:



 On Wed, 25 Mar 2015, Alex Smith wrote:
  On Wed, 2015-03-25 at 15:37 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
  
   There's always plans.
 
  We have tons of plans, just need people to start playing before we can
  use them.
 
  Or to put it another way, nobody's going to start playing unless people
  start playing :-(

 I'd say more what we need is an Officer who's willing to propose AND
 consistently officiate a new (game/economy/political system/whatever).







Re: DIS: Re: BUS: registration stadjer

2015-03-26 Thread Benjamin Schultz
On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 6:12 AM, stad jer stadjerno...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'm willing to perform administrative duties after a revival, but I don't
 know how much game-experience one needs for that.
 How did Agora survive dead points like this in the past?


stadjer, I suggest you do these:

1. Read the most recently published Short Logical Ruleset (SLR), if you
haven't already.
2. Propose all sorts of rule changes.

That will give you plenty of game experience.

OscarMeyr


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: registration stadjer

2015-03-26 Thread Kerim Aydin


On Thu, 26 Mar 2015, Benjamin Schultz wrote:
 On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 6:12 AM, stad jer stadjerno...@gmail.com wrote:
   I'm willing to perform administrative duties after a revival, but I 
 don't know how much game-experience one needs for that.
 How did Agora survive dead points like this in the past?
 
 stadjer, I suggest you do these:
 
 1. Read the most recently published Short Logical Ruleset (SLR), if you 
 haven't already.
 2. Propose all sorts of rule changes.
 
 That will give you plenty of game experience.
 
 OscarMeyr

In all seriousness, I think most dead periods ended when someone put forward
a new Proposal with a set of new rules for a new Game Play idea, and also ran
it long enough to work out the bugs in the idea.  If the game is relatively
easy to get into, enough other waiting players tended to jump right in.

We saw it begin to happen with the Dungeon Master a couple months ago; people 
jumped in.  But then a bug happened, and the original D.M. didn't care enough 
(or have the time) to fix it, so it just died out when e didn't do so.

If you write your own rules for such a game/addition, you'll be the expert on 
those rules to begin with.  Though they might not all work as you intend 
exactly, so if you do this, please post drafts of your proposal before you 
formally propose it; one thing our collective experience helps in is finding 
bugs.

-G.





Re: DIS: Re: BUS: registration stadjer

2015-03-25 Thread stad jer
Thank you!

Are there plans to revive Agora? I participated a while a few years ago and
it was considerably more active then.

stadjer

2015-03-24 18:47 GMT+01:00 Benjamin Schultz ben.dov.schu...@gmail.com:

 On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 7:35 PM, stad jer stadjerno...@gmail.com wrote:

 I'd like to join Agora. (i.e. I want to become Registered.)

 stadjer


 I dance the dance of welcome.

 --
 OscarMeyr



Re: DIS: Re: BUS: registration stadjer

2015-03-25 Thread Kerim Aydin


On Wed, 25 Mar 2015, Alex Smith wrote:
 On Wed, 2015-03-25 at 15:37 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
  
  There's always plans.
 
 We have tons of plans, just need people to start playing before we can
 use them.
 
 Or to put it another way, nobody's going to start playing unless people
 start playing :-(

I'd say more what we need is an Officer who's willing to propose AND 
consistently officiate a new (game/economy/political system/whatever).






Re: DIS: Re: BUS: registration stadjer

2015-03-25 Thread Kerim Aydin


There's always plans.

On Wed, 25 Mar 2015, stad jer wrote:

 Thank you!
 Are there plans to revive Agora? I participated a while a few years ago and 
 it was considerably more active then.
 
 stadjer
 
 2015-03-24 18:47 GMT+01:00 Benjamin Schultz ben.dov.schu...@gmail.com:
   On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 7:35 PM, stad jer stadjerno...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 I'd like to join Agora. (i.e. I want to become Registered.)
 stadjer
 
 
 I dance the dance of welcome.
 
 --
 OscarMeyr
 
 
 




Re: DIS: Re: BUS: registration stadjer

2015-03-25 Thread Alex Smith
On Wed, 2015-03-25 at 15:37 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
 
 There's always plans.

We have tons of plans, just need people to start playing before we can
use them.

Or to put it another way, nobody's going to start playing unless people
start playing :-(

-- 
ais523




Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2014-07-02 Thread Chester Mealer
Rights and responsibilities to Agora are part of playerness. Taking up the
rights and responsibilities is synonymous with becoming a player.

Many thanks for your support, Burgundy Haze.

cdm014


On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 11:18 AM, Jonathan Rouillard 
jonathan.rouill...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 12:12 PM, Kerim Aydin ke...@u.washington.edu
 wrote:
 
 
  On Wed, 2 Jul 2014, Chester Mealer wrote:
  I resume my identity as cdm014 with all rights and responsibilities to
 agora associated with that identity.
  Chester Mealer
 
  Hrm, subject line registration, identity not playerness...
  I'll let someone else do the honors...

 I support and do so.

 ~ Burgundy Haze



Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2014-07-02 Thread Kerim Aydin



On Wed, 2 Jul 2014, Chester Mealer wrote:
 Rights and responsibilities to Agora are part of playerness. 
 Taking up the rights and responsibilities is synonymous
 with becoming a player.

Possibly.  You said you took up the rights and responsibilities of
an identity, which is associated with a Person not a Player in
this game.  You don't lose that identity when you stop being a
player.When you stopped being a player, you (the person in
question) ceased to have responsibilities, so you could just be 
saying that you claim the rights that Agora grants any person or 
former player.

If you hadn't put registration in the subject line, I'd guess that
this didn't work.  The subject line is probably enough clarifying
context though, given both my recent CFJ decision and the flexibility 
that registration attempts generally allow.

-G.





Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2014-02-13 Thread Pavitra

On 02/13/2014 09:57 PM, omd wrote:

On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 10:53 PM, Brian Blomlie brianblom...@icloud.com wrote:

I register.


Welcome!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpQw3WLP3E4


That reminds me, has there been an intersection of ponies and nomic yet?


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2011-06-30 Thread Joshua Murphy



From: Ed Murphy emurph...@socal.rr.com
To: agora-discussion@agoranomic.org
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2011 9:38 PM
Subject: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration


Ed Murphy wrote:
No relation.

-

Agreed. No relation (as far as we know).
Joshua Murphy wrote:

 I hereby register with the nickname of Math321.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2011-06-29 Thread Joshua Murphy



From: ais523 callforjudgem...@yahoo.co.uk
To: agora-discussion@agoranomic.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration


I can't get to mail classic, Yahoo removed the option to use it because they're 
strongly encouraging people to use the new interface. Also, since I'm not 
using mail plus, I can't use a client, just the webmail. So... what now?
On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 17:03 -0700, Joshua Murphy wrote:

 Sorry again. I'm kinda new at this. I'll use a divider made out of -'s
 from now on. Anybody know a way to make yahoo bottom-post by default?

I think I'm the only other Yahoo! user here, and I mostly use a separate
client, communicating with Yahoo! via POP3 and SMTP, which avoids the
issue entirely, as it's only acting as a relay and not an editor as
well.

When I'm using the webmail interface, though, my options are to use the
Classic interface, and General | Mode | Compose messages as plain text
in the options. It sets things up using  quoting like most clients, and
is suitable for top- or bottom-posting (just move the cursor to the top
or bottom respectively before you start typing); the major issue is that
it screws up line-wrapping, and I often have to fix that by hand. (A
tip: although the message that is quoted will be line-wrapped, you
should write your own message in one long line, inserting line breaks
only for paragraph breaks, or it'll look insane when it arrives.)

-- 
ais523

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2011-06-29 Thread Joshua Murphy
From: Elliott Hird penguinoftheg...@googlemail.com
To: agora-discussion@agoranomic.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:20 PM
Subject: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

On 29 June 2011 01:03, Joshua Murphy math...@ymail.com wrote:
 Sorry again. I'm kinda new at this. I'll use a divider made out of -'s from
 now on. Anybody know a way to make yahoo bottom-post by default?

Your email was still sent as HTML, not plain text; the divider doesn't
matter. (You may be able to send as plain text by turning off any
formatting options in the compose screen, or by selecting to not send
email as HTML in your preferences screen).

I know ais523 sometimes posts from Yahoo, so he should be able to help.
 
 

 
Is this better? For now, I can't do the  thing, but at least I've figured out 
how to do plain text.


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2011-06-29 Thread Joshua Murphy


- Original Message -
From: Elliott Hird penguinoftheg...@googlemail.com
To: agora-discussion@agoranomic.org
Cc: 
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

By the way, no need to be sorry; many new players have problems
sending their emails right to start with. Welcome! :)


-

Thank you! :D
-Joshua


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2011-06-29 Thread Elliott Hird
On 29 June 2011 14:48, Joshua Murphy math...@ymail.com wrote:
 Is this better? For now, I can't do the  thing, but at least I've figured 
 out how to do plain text.

This is better, although your style of quoting is a bit
confusing/wastes some space in at least my mail client. Nevertheless,
not very important, and much better than before; welcome to the game!


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2011-06-28 Thread Sean Hunt

On 11-06-28 04:09 PM, Joshua Murphy wrote:

Does that mean I win?


Check the rules.
Also, don't top-post. Bottom-posting is the custom in Agora and 
top-posting will just confuse things to the point where conversations 
can't be followed


-scshunt


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2011-06-28 Thread Joshua Murphy


 
From: Sean Hunt scsh...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca
To: agora-discussion@agoranomic.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 7:14 PM
Subject: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

On 11-06-28 04:09 PM, Joshua Murphy wrote:
 Does that mean I win?

Check the rules.
Also, don't top-post. Bottom-posting is the custom in Agora and top-posting 
will just confuse things to the point where conversations can't be followed

-scshunt



Okay, sorry. It's yahoo's default.


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2011-06-28 Thread Eric Stucky

On Jun 28, 2011, at 4:14 PM, Sean Hunt wrote:

 On 11-06-28 04:09 PM, Joshua Murphy wrote:
 Does that mean I win?
 
 Check the rules.
 Also, don't top-post. Bottom-posting is the custom in Agora and top-posting 
 will just confuse things to the point where conversations can't be followed
 
 -scshunt

Yeah, we're kind of far away from Saber's original ruleset :)

And while we're in the mood to tell you what to do, you should send your emails 
in plain text (as opposed to rich text).

-Turiski





Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2011-06-28 Thread Joshua Murphy
From: Eric Stucky turiski.no...@gmail.com
To: agora-discussion@agoranomic.org
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2011 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration


On Jun 28, 2011, at 4:14 PM, Sean Hunt wrote:

 On 11-06-28 04:09 PM, Joshua Murphy wrote:
 Does that mean I win?
 
 Check the rules.
 Also, don't top-post. Bottom-posting is the custom in Agora and top-posting 
 will just confuse things to the point where conversations can't be followed
 
 -scshunt

Yeah, we're kind of far away from Saber's original ruleset :)

And while we're in the mood to tell you what to do, you should send your emails 
in plain text (as opposed to rich text).

-Turiski

--


Sorry again. I'm kinda new at this. I'll use a divider made out of -'s from now 
on. Anybody know a way to make yahoo bottom-post by default?

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2011-06-28 Thread ais523
On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 17:03 -0700, Joshua Murphy wrote:

 Sorry again. I'm kinda new at this. I'll use a divider made out of -'s
 from now on. Anybody know a way to make yahoo bottom-post by default?

I think I'm the only other Yahoo! user here, and I mostly use a separate
client, communicating with Yahoo! via POP3 and SMTP, which avoids the
issue entirely, as it's only acting as a relay and not an editor as
well.

When I'm using the webmail interface, though, my options are to use the
Classic interface, and General | Mode | Compose messages as plain text
in the options. It sets things up using  quoting like most clients, and
is suitable for top- or bottom-posting (just move the cursor to the top
or bottom respectively before you start typing); the major issue is that
it screws up line-wrapping, and I often have to fix that by hand. (A
tip: although the message that is quoted will be line-wrapped, you
should write your own message in one long line, inserting line breaks
only for paragraph breaks, or it'll look insane when it arrives.)

-- 
ais523



Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2011-06-28 Thread Jonathan Rouillard
Gmail ftw. Also, oh hai. Welcome to this wonderful land of Nomickiness. =)

Disclaimer: I object to Math321's registration. Having received no
objection, I do so.

~ Roujo

On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:11 PM, ais523 callforjudgem...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
 On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 17:03 -0700, Joshua Murphy wrote:

 Sorry again. I'm kinda new at this. I'll use a divider made out of -'s
 from now on. Anybody know a way to make yahoo bottom-post by default?

 I think I'm the only other Yahoo! user here, and I mostly use a separate
 client, communicating with Yahoo! via POP3 and SMTP, which avoids the
 issue entirely, as it's only acting as a relay and not an editor as
 well.

 When I'm using the webmail interface, though, my options are to use the
 Classic interface, and General | Mode | Compose messages as plain text
 in the options. It sets things up using  quoting like most clients, and
 is suitable for top- or bottom-posting (just move the cursor to the top
 or bottom respectively before you start typing); the major issue is that
 it screws up line-wrapping, and I often have to fix that by hand. (A
 tip: although the message that is quoted will be line-wrapped, you
 should write your own message in one long line, inserting line breaks
 only for paragraph breaks, or it'll look insane when it arrives.)

 --
 ais523




Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2011-06-28 Thread Elliott Hird
On 29 June 2011 01:03, Joshua Murphy math...@ymail.com wrote:
 Sorry again. I'm kinda new at this. I'll use a divider made out of -'s from
 now on. Anybody know a way to make yahoo bottom-post by default?

Your email was still sent as HTML, not plain text; the divider doesn't
matter. (You may be able to send as plain text by turning off any
formatting options in the compose screen, or by selecting to not send
email as HTML in your preferences screen).

I know ais523 sometimes posts from Yahoo, so he should be able to help.


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2011-06-28 Thread Elliott Hird
By the way, no need to be sorry; many new players have problems
sending their emails right to start with. Welcome! :)


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2011-05-30 Thread woggle
On 5/30/11 2:59 PM, Elliott Hird wrote:
 --040006000107010606030609
 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Oops. Not sure how compose messages in HTML format got checked in my
email preferences.

- woggle



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2011-04-13 Thread Elliott Hird
On 13 April 2011 06:20, Quazie quazieno...@gmail.com wrote:
 Is there really enough ambiguity here for this CFJ to be warranted?
 It seems more valid than most of my attempts.

It's not *my* fault if someone registers in an uninteresting manner.


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2011-04-13 Thread Geoffrey Spear
On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Elliott Hird
penguinoftheg...@googlemail.com wrote:
 On 13 April 2011 06:20, Quazie quazieno...@gmail.com wrote:
 Is there really enough ambiguity here for this CFJ to be warranted?
 It seems more valid than most of my attempts.

 It's not *my* fault if someone registers in an uninteresting manner.

Proto: In R869, replace reasonably clearly and reasonably
unambiguously with reasonably unclearly and reasonably ambiguously.


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2011-04-13 Thread Kerim Aydin


On Wed, 13 Apr 2011, Elliott Hird wrote:
 On 13 April 2011 06:09, Florw flo...@gmail.com wrote:
  Registration announcements are supposed to be boring!
 
 Well, you're definitely new here.

Or sensibly old :P





Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2011-04-13 Thread Charles Walker
On 13 April 2011 18:54, Geoffrey Spear geoffsp...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 1:50 PM, Elliott Hird
 penguinoftheg...@googlemail.com wrote:
 On 13 April 2011 06:20, Quazie quazieno...@gmail.com wrote:
 Is there really enough ambiguity here for this CFJ to be warranted?
 It seems more valid than most of my attempts.

 It's not *my* fault if someone registers in an uninteresting manner.

 Proto: In R869, replace reasonably clearly and reasonably
 unambiguously with reasonably unclearly and reasonably ambiguously.

FOR.

Mind you, by that standard my registration was positively weary.

-- 
Charles Walker


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2010-12-27 Thread Taral
On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 5:34 PM, omd c.ome...@gmail.com wrote:
 Talk about timing!

The revolving door is OPEN.

-- 
Taral tar...@gmail.com
Please let me know if there's any further trouble I can give you.
    -- Unknown


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2010-11-17 Thread Geoffrey Spear
On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 9:55 AM, ais523 callforjudgem...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
 Gratuitous: Arguably, the entire point of the contract was an intent to
 someday be a player, with other members of the contract being able to
 choose /when/.

Rule 869 contains the phrase at that time.


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2010-11-17 Thread ais523
On Wed, 2010-11-17 at 10:46 -0500, Geoffrey Spear wrote:
 On Wed, Nov 17, 2010 at 9:55 AM, ais523 callforjudgem...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
  Gratuitous: Arguably, the entire point of the contract was an intent to
  someday be a player, with other members of the contract being able to
  choose /when/.
 
 Rule 869 contains the phrase at that time.

That's what I was referencing. We seem to have interpreted the phrase in
question differently from each other.

-- 
ais523



Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2010-04-18 Thread Mitchell Hart

Thank you!

On Apr 18, 2010, at 5:39 PM, Sean Hunt ride...@gmail.com wrote:


On 04/18/2010 01:26 AM, Mitchell Hart wrote:

Hello Agorans!

My name is Epaeris, and I am Registering. Thank you for such a  
wonderful

Place!

Epaeris


Welcome to Agora, Epaeris! I caught some of your conversations on  
##nomic, and look forward to your proposals!


-coppro


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2010-04-18 Thread Aaron Goldfein
On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 20:48, Mitchell Hart hermitchipm...@gmail.com wrote:
 Thank you!

 On Apr 18, 2010, at 5:39 PM, Sean Hunt ride...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 04/18/2010 01:26 AM, Mitchell Hart wrote:

 Hello Agorans!

 My name is Epaeris, and I am Registering. Thank you for such a wonderful
 Place!

 Epaeris

 Welcome to Agora, Epaeris! I caught some of your conversations on ##nomic,
 and look forward to your proposals!

 -coppro


Every sentence in this thread has ended with an exclamation point!
Also, welcome!


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2010-04-18 Thread Mitchell Hart
Maybe that should be a new Proposal, ending every sentence of  
welcoming with an exclamation point!


On Apr 18, 2010, at 6:56 PM, Aaron Goldfein aarongoldf...@gmail.com  
wrote:


On Sun, Apr 18, 2010 at 20:48, Mitchell Hart  
hermitchipm...@gmail.com wrote:

Thank you!

On Apr 18, 2010, at 5:39 PM, Sean Hunt ride...@gmail.com wrote:


On 04/18/2010 01:26 AM, Mitchell Hart wrote:


Hello Agorans!

My name is Epaeris, and I am Registering. Thank you for such a  
wonderful

Place!

Epaeris


Welcome to Agora, Epaeris! I caught some of your conversations on  
##nomic,

and look forward to your proposals!

-coppro




Every sentence in this thread has ended with an exclamation point!
Also, welcome!


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2009-08-02 Thread Jonatan Kilhamn
2009/8/3 Elliott Hird penguinoftheg...@googlemail.com:
 2009/8/2 Edmond Dantes dmarketdan...@gmail.com:
 I register.

 I have no idea what's going on.


 Omegle?

I have never seen this person before.

-- 
-Tiger


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2009-08-02 Thread Ed Murphy
G. wrote:

 On Sun, 2 Aug 2009, Ed Murphy wrote:
 Please let us know what additional questions you have.
 
 Was there a reference to your recent FAQ and ais523's thesis in these
 links?  (I missed them if there were).  -G.

Nope, here they are:

http://www.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2009-April/019181.html
http://www.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2009-April/019440.html

Some parts are now out of date (esp. with Notes recently being replaced
by Cards), and IMO scams should be updated to mention the spectrum
that G. recently pointed out.


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2009-08-02 Thread Edmond Dantes
I'll just go by Edmond Dantes, though you can call me *The Count *if you
want!

I've just been observing the emails for a few days now, trying to get an
idea of how to play and exactly people are talking about. Alas, the current
rules page is down, so I've been waiting on taking any action.


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2009-08-02 Thread Sean Hunt
Edmond Dantes wrote:
 I'll just go by Edmond Dantes, though you can call me /The Count /if you
 want!
 
 I've just been observing the emails for a few days now, trying to get an
 idea of how to play and exactly people are talking about. Alas, the
 current rules page is down, so I've been waiting on taking any action.
http://agora.qoid.us/current_flr.html works fine.


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2009-08-02 Thread Edmond Dantes
Won't work for me. Hasn't for a few days.


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2009-08-02 Thread Sean Hunt
Edmond Dantes wrote:
 Won't work for me. Hasn't for a few days.
Have you tried viewing it through a proxy site?


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2009-08-02 Thread Edmond Dantes
That works...why would my regular IP not work?

Either way, thanks much!


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2009-07-30 Thread Kenner Gordon
Welcome! Now, just because both ais523 and comex have asked the
question, I shall ask it.

Do you have a name, or are you a nameless unimportant NPC that exists
solely to be killed and/or bought from? Choose wisely.

On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 9:28 AM, jon.gilm...@gmail.com wrote:
 I register.


-- 
*** You have died ***

Would you like to RESTART, REPLY to this e-mail, or QUIT?



Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2009-07-30 Thread Pavitra
Kenner Gordon wrote:
 Welcome! Now, just because both ais523 and comex have asked the
 question, I shall ask it.
 
 Do you have a name, or are you a nameless unimportant NPC that exists
 solely to be killed and/or bought from? Choose wisely.

I believe e chose JonnyRotten. RTFDF :P


RE: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2009-07-30 Thread jon.gilmour
*** You have died ***
Would you like to RESTART, REPLY to this e-mail, or QUIT?
Say My nickname from this point forward shall be JonnyRotten
You can't talk, you have died
Restart
Say My nickname from this point forward shall be JonnyRotten
You loudly announce that your nickname will be JonnyRotten from this point
forward. Congratulations.
Look

-Original Message-
From: agora-discussion-ad...@agoranomic.org
[mailto:agora-discussion-ad...@agoranomic.org] On Behalf Of Kenner Gordon
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 2:03 PM
To: agora-discussion@agoranomic.org
Subject: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

Welcome! Now, just because both ais523 and comex have asked the
question, I shall ask it.

Do you have a name, or are you a nameless unimportant NPC that exists
solely to be killed and/or bought from? Choose wisely.

On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 9:28 AM, jon.gilm...@gmail.com wrote:
 I register.


-- 
*** You have died ***

Would you like to RESTART, REPLY to this e-mail, or QUIT?




Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2009-05-13 Thread Sean Hunt
Geoffrey Spear wrote:
 On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Sean Hunt ride...@gmail.com wrote:
 Manuel Lanctot wrote:
 I register.

 ~Manu
 I award Manu a White Ribbon.
 
 Fails, this is not the first time Manu has registered.
Oh, really? My bad.


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2009-05-13 Thread Elliott Hird
On 2009-05-14, Sean Hunt ride...@gmail.com wrote:
 Geoffrey Spear wrote:
 On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Sean Hunt ride...@gmail.com wrote:
 Manuel Lanctot wrote:
 I register.

 ~Manu
 I award Manu a White Ribbon.

 Fails, this is not the first time Manu has registered.
 Oh, really? My bad.


Quoth the Murphy, Welcome back. 2001-2003, I believe.


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2009-05-01 Thread comex
On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 5:47 PM, Aaron Goldfein aarongoldf...@gmail.com wrote:
 Welcome to Agora, Manu. Is there any nickname you would like to use?

Clearly, he wants to be known as Melbourne.


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2009-04-25 Thread Charles Walker
C-walker, please.

C-walker


On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Aaron Goldfein aarongoldf...@gmail.comwrote:



 On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 5:55 AM, Charles Walker 
 charles.w.wal...@googlemail.com wrote:

 I register.

 C-walker



 Welcome. Is there any nickname you would like to use?



Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2009-04-22 Thread Elliott Hird
2009/4/22 Jonatan Kilhamn jonatan.kilh...@gmail.com:
 2009/4/22 David Picón Álvarez da...@miradoiro.com:
 I wish to be registered.

 --David.

 By whom?


 --
 -Tiger


what? that works just fine


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2009-04-22 Thread Elliott Hird
2009/4/22 David Picón Álvarez da...@miradoiro.com:
 Yes, I register as modulus instead (without the quotation marks of
 course).

 Thanks,
 --modulus



Next Time To The Public Forum(TM)! :-)


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2009-04-22 Thread Aaron Goldfein
On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Elliott Hird 
penguinoftheg...@googlemail.com wrote:

 2009/4/22 David Picón Álvarez da...@miradoiro.com:
  Yes, I register as modulus instead (without the quotation marks of
  course).
 
  Thanks,
  --modulus
 
 

 Next Time To The Public Forum(TM)! :-)


Don't be dissuaded. If you want, you can register as David. For now I'll
list you as modulus but if you would prefer David then I'll list you as
David.


Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2009-03-23 Thread Rodlen
I see you recognize me.

For those who are wondering: small-scale scam involving Blognomic treatment
of edited proposals.  An instant-kill, which prompted a change in the
handling of edited proposals.

On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 7:47 PM, Elliott Hird 
penguinoftheg...@googlemail.com wrote:

 On 2009-03-24, Corin T rodlenj...@gmail.com wrote:
  I, Rodlen, hereby register.
 
 Oh god. Thankfully, emails are not editable.
  Hello, all.  I'm just some random guy.  I've had limited experience in
  Nomics, being an admin at Blognomic...HOLY SHIT THAT'S ONE HUGE RULESET!
 It's been 2x bigger.
 
  ...Sorry about that.
 



Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration

2009-03-23 Thread Aaron Goldfein
Welcome to Agora.

-Yally


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