Re: DIS: [Promotor] Draft Report

[nch via agora-discussion]

On Sunday, May 24, 2020 3:58:05 PM CDT you wrote:
> > Grok's "Cantus Counterscam" (which has the author and co-author values
> > that
> > are incorrectly listed for "a Proposed Contract") is missing.
> 
> I believe that e retracted it.

Oh, looks like you're correct.

-- 
nch

Re: DIS: [Promotor] Draft Report

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus via agora-discussion]

On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 4:57 PM nchagora--- via agora-discussion
 wrote:
>
> On Sunday, May 24, 2020 3:42:06 PM CDT Aris Merchant via agora-discussion
> wrote:
> > ID Author(s)AITitle
> > ---
> > 8388f  nch  1.0   The Webmastor
> > 8389#  G.   2.0   Just Impeach instead
> > 8390*  R. Lee   3.0   Registror
> > 8391*  R. Lee   3.0   Notory (Vote Labour)
> > 8392#  Jason2.0   Prior violations
> > 8393#  Aris 2.0   Elections Aren't Over Till They End
> > 8394#  Jason2.0   8228 retry
> > 8395#  G., R. Lee   1.7   Mooting moots
> > 8396*  grok, nch3.0   a Proposed Contract
> > 8397#  Jason1.1   Editorial what?
> > 8398#  grok, G. 1.0   Auction End Clarification
> > 8399#  P.S.S.   2.0   Referral
> > 8400*  Murphy, nch, G.  3.0   More conservative implicit
> > announcements 8401#  R. Lee   1.0   E had two months!
> > 8402#  R. Lee   1.0   Clinton v City of New York
> >
> >
> > The proposal pool is currently empty.
>
> Grok's "Cantus Counterscam" (which has the author and co-author values that
> are incorrectly listed for "a Proposed Contract") is missing.
>
>

I believe that e retracted it.

Re: DIS: [Promotor] Draft Report

[nchagora--- via agora-discussion]

On Sunday, May 24, 2020 3:42:06 PM CDT Aris Merchant via agora-discussion 
wrote:
> ID Author(s)AITitle
> ---
> 8388f  nch  1.0   The Webmastor
> 8389#  G.   2.0   Just Impeach instead
> 8390*  R. Lee   3.0   Registror
> 8391*  R. Lee   3.0   Notory (Vote Labour)
> 8392#  Jason2.0   Prior violations
> 8393#  Aris 2.0   Elections Aren't Over Till They End
> 8394#  Jason2.0   8228 retry
> 8395#  G., R. Lee   1.7   Mooting moots
> 8396*  grok, nch3.0   a Proposed Contract
> 8397#  Jason1.1   Editorial what?
> 8398#  grok, G. 1.0   Auction End Clarification
> 8399#  P.S.S.   2.0   Referral
> 8400*  Murphy, nch, G.  3.0   More conservative implicit
> announcements 8401#  R. Lee   1.0   E had two months!
> 8402#  R. Lee   1.0   Clinton v City of New York
> 
> 
> The proposal pool is currently empty.

Grok's "Cantus Counterscam" (which has the author and co-author values that 
are incorrectly listed for "a Proposed Contract") is missing.

Re: DIS: [Promotor] Draft Report

[Aris Merchant via agora-discussion]

On Sun, May 24, 2020 at 1:43 PM Aris Merchant via agora-discussion
 wrote:
>
> Here's my weekly draft.
>
> -Aris
>
> ---
> I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
> Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
> pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the
> quorum is 8, the voting method is AI-majority, and the valid
> options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is also a valid vote, as are
> conditional votes).
>
> ID Author(s)AITitle
> ---
> 8396*  grok, nch3.0   a Proposed Contract

The author, chamber, and AI are all inconsistent with the title.


-Aris

DIS: [Promotor] Draft Report

[Aris Merchant via agora-discussion]

Here's my weekly draft.

-Aris

---
I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the
quorum is 8, the voting method is AI-majority, and the valid
options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is also a valid vote, as are
conditional votes).

ID Author(s)AITitle
---
8388f  nch  1.0   The Webmastor
8389#  G.   2.0   Just Impeach instead
8390*  R. Lee   3.0   Registror
8391*  R. Lee   3.0   Notory (Vote Labour)
8392#  Jason2.0   Prior violations
8393#  Aris 2.0   Elections Aren't Over Till They End
8394#  Jason2.0   8228 retry
8395#  G., R. Lee   1.7   Mooting moots
8396*  grok, nch3.0   a Proposed Contract
8397#  Jason1.1   Editorial what?
8398#  grok, G. 1.0   Auction End Clarification
8399#  P.S.S.   2.0   Referral
8400*  Murphy, nch, G.  3.0   More conservative implicit announcements
8401#  R. Lee   1.0   E had two months!
8402#  R. Lee   1.0   Clinton v City of New York


The proposal pool is currently empty.

Legend: * : Democratic proposal.
# : Ordinary proposal, unset chamber.
e : Economy ministry proposal.
f : Efficiency ministry proposal.
j : Justice ministry proposal.
l : Legislation ministry proposal.
p : Participation ministry proposal.


The full text of the aforementioned proposal(s) is included below.

//
ID: 8388
Title: The Webmastor
Adoption index: 1.0
Author: nch
Co-authors:


Enact a rule titled "The Webmastor" with Power=1 and the following text:

  The Webmastor is an office.

  The Webmastor's monthly report includes a Directory, a Changelog, a
  Warning Log, and an Error Log. The Directory lists notable
  currently maintained public resources. The Changelog lists notable
  changes to resources. The Warning Log lists notable potential
  issues, such as inaccurate or aging resources or unintended issues
  with a public resource. The Error Log lists notable losses of
  resources - where a resource has become inaccessible, unmaintained,
  or unusable. Where 'notable' is used in this rule its meaning is up
  to the Webmastor's discretion.

//
ID: 8389
Title: Just Impeach instead
Adoption index: 2.0
Author: G.
Co-authors:


Amend Rule 2531 by deleting:
  If the Referee attempts to levy three or more INEFFECTIVE fines
  in a week, any player CAN, with two support, issue a writ of
  Impartial Arbitration Restoration, immediately making the
  position of Referee vacant. When a writ of Impartial Arbitration
  Restoration is issued, the ADoP SHALL initiate an election for
  the Referee in a timely fashion.

[context:  When this was written, there were very few protections in this
rule, and general impeachment didn't exist.  Now with the full list of
protections the Referee is pretty constrained, and impeachment exists.]

//
ID: 8390
Title: Registror
Adoption index: 3.0
Author: R. Lee
Co-authors:


Retitle the rule 2139 "The Registrar" to "The Registror"
Amend each rule that contains the text "Registrar" by replacing that text
with "Registror"
(This informational segment in brackets has no legal effects. A list of
those rules as this proposal is written for your information is rules 869,
478, 2139, 1789, 2532, 2574, 1885, 2581)

//
ID: 8391
Title: Notory (Vote Labour)
Adoption index: 3.0
Author: R. Lee
Co-authors:


Retitle rule 2608 "The Notary" to "The Notory"
Amend rules 2608 and 2450, and also any other rule that contains the text
"Notary", by replacing the word "Notary" with "Notory"

//
ID: 8392
Title: Prior violations
Adoption index: 2.0
Author: Jason
Co-authors:


Amend Rule 2531 by changing the list item labeled (2) to read, in its
entirety:  "(2) it attempts to levy a fine for an action or inaction
which, at the time the inaction or action occurred, was not prohibited
by the rules;"

[This ensures that, as long as an action violated the rules when it was
committed, it can be punished. For instance, the Assessor could commit a
crime immediately before resolving a proposal that changes the
definition of the crime. Currently, it's possible the Assessor could not
be punished, since the rules at the time of the fine being levied would
not prohibit the action, even if it was illegal at the time it occurred.]

DIS: [Promotor] Draft Report

[Aris Merchant]

Here's a draft. While I obviously can't declare a deadline under the
current rules, it would be highly appreciated if people could refrain
from changing things for the next 24 hours or so.

-Aris

---
I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the
quorum is 9, the voting method is AI-majority, and the valid
options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is also a valid vote, as are
conditional votes).

IDAuthor(s)AITitle
---
8235  Jason Cobb   3.0   Unified fine creation syntax
8236  Jason Cobb, Aris 3.0   Definition de-capitalization
8237  Jacob Arduino, [1]   1.0   Repairing Defeated Spaceships v3
8238  Jacob Arduino, twg, G.   3.0   Cancelling Proposals (arr. for violin)
8239  Jason Cobb, [2]  1.0   The Editor (v2.0.1)
8240  Jason Cobb   3.0   Regulation clarification
8241  Falsifian3.0   Secured switches (v2.0)
8242  Falsifian3.0   Let the dead rest

[1] twg, Jason Cobb
[2] G., Aris, Trigon

The full text of the aforementioned proposal(s) is included below.

//
ID: 8235
Title: Unified fine creation syntax
Adoption index: 3.0
Author: Jason Cobb
Co-authors:


Amend Rule 2555 ("Blots") by replacing the text "To Levy a Fine" with
the text "To levy a fine".


Amend Rule 2451 ("Executive Orders") by replacing the sentence

  The Prime Minister levies a 2 Blot fine on a specified player.

with the sentence

  The Prime Minister levies a fine of 2 on a specified player.


Amend Rule 2479 ("Official Justice") by replacing the text "levying a
fine of up to 2 blots on em" with the text "levying a fine of (a value
not exceeding 2) on em".

//
ID: 8236
Title: Definition de-capitalization
Adoption index: 3.0
Author: Jason Cobb
Co-authors: Aris


Amend Rule 1728 to read, in whole:

  The following methods of taking actions are known as "dependent
  actions":

  1. without N objections, where N is a positive integer no greater
  than 8 ("without objection" is shorthand for this method with N = 1);

  2. with N support, where N is a positive integer ("with support" is
  shorthand for this method with N = 1);

  3. with N Agoran consent, where N is an integer multiple of 0.1 with
  a minimum of 1 ("With Agoran consent" is shorthand for this method
  with N = 1);

  4. with notice; or

  5. with T notice, where T is a time period.

  N is 1 unless otherwise specified.


Amend Rule 2595 as follows:

  In the first sub-bullet under item 2 of the only list, replace the
  text "with T Notice" with the text "with T notice".

  In the second sub-bullet under item 2 of the only list, replace the
  text "Without N Objections, With N Support, or With N Agoran
  Consent" with the text "without N objections, with N support, or
  with N Agoran Consent".

  In the first sub-bullet under item 3 of the only list, replace the
  text "With N Support" with the text "with N support".

  In the second sub-bullet under item 3 of the only list, replace the
  text "Without N Objections, With N Agoran Consent, or With Notice"
  with the text "without N objections, with N Agoran consent, or with
  notice".

  In the third sub-bullet under item 3 of the only list, replace the
  text "With T Notice" with the text "with T notice".

  In the final paragraph, replace the text "with N Agoran Consent"
  with the text "with N Agoran consent".

Amend the only list in Rule 2124 ("Agoran Satisfaction") to read:

  1. The action is to be performed Without N objections, and there are
  at least N Objectors to that intent.

  2. The action is to be performed With N support, and there are fewer
  than than N Supporters of that intent.

  3. The action is to be performed with N Agoran consent, and the
  number of Supporters of the intent is less than or equal to N times
  the number of Objectors to the intent.

//
ID: 8237
Title: Repairing Defeated Spaceships v3
Adoption index: 3.0
Author: Jason Cobb
Co-authors: twg, Jason Cobb


Amend Rule 2595 by replacing the text "Any player CAN, by
announcement, spend a coin to increase the Armour of a Pilotable
Spaceship e owns by 1." with the text "Any player CAN pay a fee of 1
coin to increase the Armour of a Pilotable Spaceship in eir possession
by 1 or pay a fee of 3 coins to increase the Armour of a Defeated
Spaceship by 1."

[Comment: Right now, Defeated Spaceships are effectively dead forever.
If a player goes all out and kills the other person's Spaceship, they
are effectively banished from the subgame forever. To solve this, a
slight penalty is added for repairing a Defeated spaceship. The number
of coins 

Re: DIS: [Promotor] Draft Report

[Jason Cobb]

I am the author of "Not so indestructible now, eh?". This is correct in 
the table but not correct in the text of the proposal.


Jason Cobb

On 6/11/19 7:31 PM, Aris Merchant wrote:

Given how long it's been, and how many proposals there are, I'd like
to send out a draft rather than just getting everything wrong. Here's
that draft. There will be a small reward (plus my appreciation) for
any corrections!

-Aris
---
I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the
quorum is 9, the voting method is AI-majority, and the valid
options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is also a valid vote, as are
conditional votes).

IDAuthor(s) AITitle
---
8180  Trigon, D Margaux 1.0   Paying our Assessor
8181  D Margaux, [1]1.7   Referee CAN Impose Fines (v1.1)
8182  Jason Cobb3.0   Add value to zombies
8183  V.J. Rada, Tiger  3.0   Regulated Actions Reform
8184  G.3.0   power-limit precedence
8185  Trigon3.0   OUGHT we?
8186  Jason Cobb3.0   Minor currency fixes
8187  Jason Cobb3.0   Not so indestructible now, eh?

[1] Falsifian, twg

The proposal pool is currently empty.

The full text of the aforementioned proposal(s) is included below.

//
ID: 8180
Title: Paying our Assessor
Adoption index: 1.0
Author: Trigon
Co-authors: D Margaux


[ Comment: This is something I didn't include from the version of
Rule 2496 that I didn't include for whatever reason. ]

To Rule 2496 "Rewards" add the following bullet point after the third
one:
   "Resolving an Agoran Decision on whether to adopt a proposal,
   provided that no other Agoran Decision on whether to adopt that or any
   other proposal had been resolved earlier in that Agoran week: 5 coins."

//
ID: 8181
Title: Referee CAN Impose Fines (v1.1)
Adoption index: 1.7
Author: D Margaux
Co-authors: Falsifian, twg


Amend Rule 2478 to replace this text:

   “When a player Points a Finger, the investigator SHALL investigate the
   allegation and, in a timely fashion, SHALL conclude the investigation by:”

With this text:

   “When a player Points a Finger, the investigator SHALL investigate the
   allegation and CAN, and in a timely fashion SHALL, conclude the investigation
   by:”

//
ID: 8182
Title: Add value to zombies
Adoption index: 3.0
Author: Jason Cobb
Co-authors:


Amend Rule 2574 as follows:

   Replace the text
 "Resale is a secured natural switch for zombies"
   with the text
 "Resale value is a secured natural switch for zombies".

   Replace the text "Resale value" in the third item of the only list
   with the text "resale value".

//
ID: 8183
Title: Regulated Actions Reform
Adoption index: 3.0
Author: V.J. Rada
Co-authors: Tiger


Amend Rule 2125 "Regulated Actions" by replacing the text
   "The Rules SHALL NOT be interpreted so as to proscribe unregulated actions."

with the text

   "Nothing in the Rules and no other Entity nor any other thing under these
   rules proscribes unregulated actions, and this sentence takes precedence
   over any Rule or Entity that could be interpreted as proscribing such an
   action"

//
ID: 8184
Title: power-limit precedence
Adoption index: 3.0
Author: G.
Co-authors:


Amend Rule 2140 (Power Controls Mutability) by replacing:
   No entity with power below
with:
   Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, no entity with power below

//
ID: 8185
Title: OUGHT we?
Adoption index: 3.0
Author: Trigon
Co-authors:

In Rule 2152:
   replace "SHOULD NOT, DISCOURAGED, DEPRECATED"
   with "SHOULD NOT, OUGHT NOT, DISCOURAGED, DEPRECATED",

   and replace "SHOULD, ENCOURAGED, RECOMMENDED"
   with "SHOULD, OUGHT, ENCOURAGED, RECOMMENDED"

//
ID: 8186
Title: Minor currency fixes
Adoption index: 3.0
Author: Jason Cobb
Co-authors:

Amend Rule 2578 ("Currencies") as follows:

   Replace all instances of the text '"Agora's official currency"' with
   the text "the official currency of Agora". [Note: this strikes the
   quotation marks]

   Amend Rule 2549 ("Auction Initiation") as follows:
   Replace all instances of the text "Agora's official currency" with
   the text "the official currency of Agora".

   Amend Rule 2483 ("Economics") as follows:

   Replace the text "Coins are the official currency of Agora tracked
   by the Treasuror." with the text 

DIS: [Promotor] Draft Report

[Aris Merchant]

Given how long it's been, and how many proposals there are, I'd like
to send out a draft rather than just getting everything wrong. Here's
that draft. There will be a small reward (plus my appreciation) for
any corrections!

-Aris
---
I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the
quorum is 9, the voting method is AI-majority, and the valid
options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is also a valid vote, as are
conditional votes).

IDAuthor(s) AITitle
---
8180  Trigon, D Margaux 1.0   Paying our Assessor
8181  D Margaux, [1]1.7   Referee CAN Impose Fines (v1.1)
8182  Jason Cobb3.0   Add value to zombies
8183  V.J. Rada, Tiger  3.0   Regulated Actions Reform
8184  G.3.0   power-limit precedence
8185  Trigon3.0   OUGHT we?
8186  Jason Cobb3.0   Minor currency fixes
8187  Jason Cobb3.0   Not so indestructible now, eh?

[1] Falsifian, twg

The proposal pool is currently empty.

The full text of the aforementioned proposal(s) is included below.

//
ID: 8180
Title: Paying our Assessor
Adoption index: 1.0
Author: Trigon
Co-authors: D Margaux


[ Comment: This is something I didn't include from the version of
   Rule 2496 that I didn't include for whatever reason. ]

To Rule 2496 "Rewards" add the following bullet point after the third
one:
  "Resolving an Agoran Decision on whether to adopt a proposal,
  provided that no other Agoran Decision on whether to adopt that or any
  other proposal had been resolved earlier in that Agoran week: 5 coins."

//
ID: 8181
Title: Referee CAN Impose Fines (v1.1)
Adoption index: 1.7
Author: D Margaux
Co-authors: Falsifian, twg


Amend Rule 2478 to replace this text:

  “When a player Points a Finger, the investigator SHALL investigate the
  allegation and, in a timely fashion, SHALL conclude the investigation by:”

With this text:

  “When a player Points a Finger, the investigator SHALL investigate the
  allegation and CAN, and in a timely fashion SHALL, conclude the investigation
  by:”

//
ID: 8182
Title: Add value to zombies
Adoption index: 3.0
Author: Jason Cobb
Co-authors:


Amend Rule 2574 as follows:

  Replace the text
"Resale is a secured natural switch for zombies"
  with the text
"Resale value is a secured natural switch for zombies".

  Replace the text "Resale value" in the third item of the only list
  with the text "resale value".

//
ID: 8183
Title: Regulated Actions Reform
Adoption index: 3.0
Author: V.J. Rada
Co-authors: Tiger


Amend Rule 2125 "Regulated Actions" by replacing the text
  "The Rules SHALL NOT be interpreted so as to proscribe unregulated actions."

with the text

  "Nothing in the Rules and no other Entity nor any other thing under these
  rules proscribes unregulated actions, and this sentence takes precedence
  over any Rule or Entity that could be interpreted as proscribing such an
  action"

//
ID: 8184
Title: power-limit precedence
Adoption index: 3.0
Author: G.
Co-authors:


Amend Rule 2140 (Power Controls Mutability) by replacing:
  No entity with power below
with:
  Rules to the contrary notwithstanding, no entity with power below

//
ID: 8185
Title: OUGHT we?
Adoption index: 3.0
Author: Trigon
Co-authors:

In Rule 2152:
  replace "SHOULD NOT, DISCOURAGED, DEPRECATED"
  with "SHOULD NOT, OUGHT NOT, DISCOURAGED, DEPRECATED",

  and replace "SHOULD, ENCOURAGED, RECOMMENDED"
  with "SHOULD, OUGHT, ENCOURAGED, RECOMMENDED"

//
ID: 8186
Title: Minor currency fixes
Adoption index: 3.0
Author: Jason Cobb
Co-authors:

Amend Rule 2578 ("Currencies") as follows:

  Replace all instances of the text '"Agora's official currency"' with
  the text "the official currency of Agora". [Note: this strikes the
  quotation marks]

  Amend Rule 2549 ("Auction Initiation") as follows:
  Replace all instances of the text "Agora's official currency" with
  the text "the official currency of Agora".

  Amend Rule 2483 ("Economics") as follows:

  Replace the text "Coins are the official currency of Agora tracked
  by the Treasuror." with the text "Coins are the official currency of
  Agora and are tracked by the Treasuror."

//
ID: 8187
Title: Not so indestructible now, eh?
Adoption index: 3.0

DIS: [Promotor] Draft Report

[Aris Merchant]

Would someone look over this? I have a feeling I may be missing
something, but it's possible activity has just been really low.

-Aris
---
I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the
quorum is 6, the voting method is AI-majority, and the valid
options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is also a valid vote, as are
conditional votes).

IDAuthor(s)   AITitle
---
8174  G.  1.0   Understated

The proposal pool is currently empty.

The full text of the aforementioned proposal(s) is included below.

//
ID: 8174
Title: Understated
Adoption index: 3.0
Author: G.
Co-authors:


Amend Rule 2496 (Rewards) by replacing:
   A player CAN earn the set of assets associated with a reward
   condition exactly once in a timely fashion each time e fulfills it
   by stating how many assets e earns as a result of this action.
with:
   A player CAN, by announcement, earn the set of assets associated
   with a reward condition exactly once in a timely fashion each time
   e fulfills it, provided the announcement specifies the action that
   e performed and the amount of assets e earns as a result.

[in addition to putting in the 'by announcement', use of the term
'specify' invokes the same standard as in R478 that (by precedent)
allows for shorthand, references, quanging, etc.]

//

Re: DIS: [Promotor] Draft Report

[Aris Merchant]

Was Proposal 8089 ever resolved? I can't seem to find an resolution,
which would make quorum 2 from Proposal 8087.

Also, I have only a week to add them back to the pool, and that time
has been expended. We could add them back by proposal though. I'll
write one to do that.




On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 5:27 PM Timon Walshe-Grey  wrote:
>
> I make quorum 4. Voters on proposal 8089 were Aris, G., Murphy, Trigon, twg 
> and Kenyon, making 6 valid ballots.
>
> Also, Aris, it would be helpful if you could redistribute proposals 
> 8082-8089, except 8086 which doesn't exist. (8077A-8081A haven't met quorum 
> yet either, but the CFJ on whether you can redistribute twice hasn't been 
> judged yet, and none of 8082-8089 rely on them, so I figure it's safe to wait 
> for a later distribution.)
>
> -twg
>
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
> On Monday, 10 September 2018 00:22, Kerim Aydin  
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 9 Sep 2018, Aris Merchant wrote:
> >
> > > quorum is 7.0, the voting method is AI-majority, and the valid
> >
> > quorum is 3 I think.
>
>

Re: DIS: [Promotor] Draft Report

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

I make quorum 4. Voters on proposal 8089 were Aris, G., Murphy, Trigon, twg and 
Kenyon, making 6 valid ballots.

Also, Aris, it would be helpful if you could redistribute proposals 8082-8089, 
except 8086 which doesn't exist. (8077A-8081A haven't met quorum yet either, 
but the CFJ on whether you can redistribute twice hasn't been judged yet, and 
none of 8082-8089 rely on them, so I figure it's safe to wait for a later 
distribution.)

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Monday, 10 September 2018 00:22, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, 9 Sep 2018, Aris Merchant wrote:
>
> > quorum is 7.0, the voting method is AI-majority, and the valid
>
> quorum is 3 I think.

Re: DIS: [Promotor] Draft Report

[Kerim Aydin]

On Sun, 9 Sep 2018, Aris Merchant wrote:
> quorum is 7.0, the voting method is AI-majority, and the valid

quorum is 3 I think.

DIS: [Promotor] Draft Report

[Aris Merchant]

Does this look right to everyone? It's been a while (entirely my
fault), so I'm probably missing something, but this is the best I've
got right now.

With apologies,
Aris

---
I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the
quorum is 7.0, the voting method is AI-majority, and the valid
options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is also a valid vote, as are
conditional votes).

ID  Author(s)   AITitle
---
8090*   D Margaux   1.7   Shenanigans For INEFFECTIVE Fines (v2)
8091*   Murphy, Oerjan  2.0   Slow your quorum v1.1
8092*   twg 1.0   Yet Another Economics Patch


The proposal pool is currently empty.

[1] twg, Aris, G., Corona

Legend: * : Proposal is pending.
+ : By publishing this report, I pend the marked proposal.


The full text of the aforementioned proposals is included below.

//
ID: 8090
Title: Shenanigans For INEFFECTIVE Fines (v2)
Adoption index: 1.7
Author: D Margaux
Co-authors:


Amend Rule 2478 to replace this text:

“or that it would be ILLEGAL to levy a fine for it”


with this text:

“or that it would be ILLEGAL or INEFFECTIVE to levy a fine for it”

//
ID: 8091
Title: Slow your quorum v1.1
Adoption index: 2.0
Author: Murphy
Co-authors: Oerjan


Amend Rule 879 (Quorum) by replacing this text:

   The quorum that an Agoran Decision gains as it is created can be
   defined by other rules of power 2 or greater. If no other rule
   defines the quorum of an Agoran Decision, the quorum for that
   decision is equal to the number of players who voted on the Agoran
   Decision to adopt a proposal that had been most recently resolved
   at the time of that decision's initiation, minus 2.

with this text:

   The quorum that an Agoran Decision gains as it is created can be
   defined by other rules of power 2 or greater. If no other rule
   defines the quorum of an Agoran Decision, the quorum for that
   decision is equal to 2.

Create a rule titled "Baseline Quorum" with Power = 2 and this text:

   Baseline Quorum is a switch, tracked by the Promotor, with values
   equal to the positive integers and default value 1. When an Agoran
   Decision is created, it gains quorum equal to Baseline Quorum.

   Target Quorum is N - 2, where N is the number of players who voted
   on the most recently resolved Agoran Decision to adopt a proposal.

   Once per week, the Promotor CAN increase or decrease Baseline
   Quorum by 1 by announcement, and SHALL do so as follows:

 a) If Baseline Quorum < Target Quorum, then increase it.

 b) If Baseline Quorum > Target Quorum, then decrease it.

 c) If Baseline Quorum = Target Quorum, then announce it. E need
not change it that week.

Set Baseline Quorum equal to what Target Quorum would have been
immediately before the adoption of this proposal, if it had been
defined as above.

//
ID: 8092
Title: Yet Another Economics Patch
Adoption index: 1.0
Author: twg
Co-authors:


Amend rule 2499, "Welcome Packages", by removing the list item
"5 incense" and renumbering the other list items appropriately.

Destroy all incense.

//

Re: DIS: [Promotor] Draft Report

[Timon Walshe-Grey]

In the full-text-of-proposals section, proposal 8085's title is incorrect.

Also, you missed the proposal Kenyon submitted here: 
https://www.mail-archive.com/agora-business@agoranomic.org/msg32486.html

Otherwise, it looks good to me!

-twg


‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On August 10, 2018 6:47 AM, Aris Merchant  
wrote:

> This is a draft report. Corrections are appreciated, as always. I have
> marked the proposals that are being distributed a second time A,
>
> as noted in the key. This identifies the distribution; the proposal is
> still the same and thus has the same ID. The distribution-qualified
> form should be useful for Assessor tallies, and probably not much
> else.
>
> -Aris
>
> --
>
> I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
> Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
> pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the
> quorum is 7.0, the voting method is AI-majority, and the valid
> options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is also a valid vote, as are
> conditional votes).
>
> ID Author(s) AI Title
>
> 
>
> 8077A* twg 3.0 Patchy McPatchface
> 8078A* twg 2.0 From each according to eir means
> 8079A* twg 2.0 From each according to eir means v2
> 8080A* Aris 2.0 From each according to eir means v3
> 8081A* Aris, G., twg 3.0 Point Installation Act v2
> 8082* twg 1.0 Gamestate correction for July 2018
> 8083* G. 3.0 quorum fixes
> 8084* Trigon 1.0 Needs more Competition
> 8085* Kenyon, twg 2.0 Plain Old Bribery, Mk. II
> 8086* Trigon, [1] 1.0 Revamping movement v3.1
> 8087* Aris 1.0 Even Freer Proposals
>
> The proposal pool is currently empty.
>
> [1] twg, Aris, G., Corona
>
> Legend: * : Proposal is pending.
>
> + : By publishing this report, I pend the marked proposal.
>
> A : Distribution identifier for a second distribution.
>
>
> The full text of the aforementioned proposals is included below.
>
> //
> ID: 8077
> Title: Patchy McPatchface
> Adoption index: 3.0
> Author: twg
> Co-author(s):
>
> Amend rule 478, "Fora", by replacing "may change" with "CAN change".
>
> Amend rule 1789, "Cantus Cygneus", by replacing every occurrence of
> "shall" with "SHALL".
>
> //
> ID: 8078
> Title: From each according to eir means
> Adoption index: 2.0
> Author: twg
> Co-author(s):
>
> [ This is an attempt at a reset/rebalance that strikes a middle ground between
> completely erasing everyone's progress and leaving the current exponentially-
> growing inequality in place. I'm not positive that I struck the right balance
> but even if it's rejected it can be a starting point for discussion. ]
>
> For each facility owned by a player, transfer all coins owned by that facility
> to its owner.
>
> For each zombie owned by a player, transfer all coins owned by that zombie to
> its owner.
>
> Decrease the coin balance of each player to the square root (rounded up to the
> next largest integer) of however many coins e possessed before this sentence
> took effect.
>
> //
> ID: 8079
> Title: From each according to eir means v2
> Adoption index: 2.0
> Author: twg
> Co-author(s):
>
> [An alternative algorithm which may be slightly preferable: Quarter
> the coin balances instead of square-rooting them.]
>
> If the votes on the proposal titled "From each according to eir
> means" authored by twg are such that it has been or will undoubtedly
> be ADOPTED, then this proposal has no effect.
>
> For each facility owned by a player, transfer all coins owned by that
> facility to its owner.
>
> For each zombie owned by a player, transfer all coins owned by that
> zombie to its owner.
>
> Decrease the coin balance of each player to one-quarter (rounded up to
> the next largest integer) of however many coins e possessed before
> this sentence took effect.
>
> //
> ID: 8080
> Title: From each according to eir means v3
> Adoption index: 2.0
> Author: Aris
> Co-author(s): twg
>
> If the votes on any proposal, the title of which contains "From each",
> authored by twg, are such that it has been or will undoubtedly
> be ADOPTED, then this proposal has no effect.
>
> For each facility owned by a player, transfer all 

DIS: [Promotor] Draft Report

[Aris Merchant]

This is a draft report. Corrections are appreciated, as always. I have
marked the proposals that are being distributed a second time A,
as noted in the key. This identifies the distribution; the proposal is
still the same and thus has the same ID. The distribution-qualified
form should be useful for Assessor tallies, and probably not much
else.

-Aris

---
I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the
quorum is 7.0, the voting method is AI-majority, and the valid
options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is also a valid vote, as are
conditional votes).

ID  Author(s)   AITitle
---
8077A*  twg 3.0   Patchy McPatchface
8078A*  twg 2.0   From each according to eir means
8079A*  twg 2.0   From each according to eir means v2
8080A*  Aris2.0   From each according to eir means v3
8081A*  Aris, G., twg   3.0   Point Installation Act v2
8082*   twg 1.0   Gamestate correction for July 2018
8083*   G.  3.0   quorum fixes
8084*   Trigon  1.0   Needs more Competition
8085*   Kenyon, twg 2.0   Plain Old Bribery, Mk. II
8086*   Trigon, [1] 1.0   Revamping movement v3.1
8087*   Aris1.0   Even Freer Proposals


The proposal pool is currently empty.

[1] twg, Aris, G., Corona

Legend: * : Proposal is pending.
+ : By publishing this report, I pend the marked proposal.
A : Distribution identifier for a second distribution.


The full text of the aforementioned proposals is included below.

//
ID: 8077
Title: Patchy McPatchface
Adoption index: 3.0
Author: twg
Co-author(s):


Amend rule 478, "Fora", by replacing "may change" with "CAN change".

Amend rule 1789, "Cantus Cygneus", by replacing every occurrence of
"shall" with "SHALL".

//
ID: 8078
Title: From each according to eir means
Adoption index: 2.0
Author: twg
Co-author(s):


[ This is an attempt at a reset/rebalance that strikes a middle ground between
  completely erasing everyone's progress and leaving the current exponentially-
  growing inequality in place. I'm not positive that I struck the right balance
  but even if it's rejected it can be a starting point for discussion. ]

For each facility owned by a player, transfer all coins owned by that facility
to its owner.

For each zombie owned by a player, transfer all coins owned by that zombie to
its owner.

Decrease the coin balance of each player to the square root (rounded up to the
next largest integer) of however many coins e possessed before this sentence
took effect.

//
ID: 8079
Title: From each according to eir means v2
Adoption index: 2.0
Author: twg
Co-author(s):


[An alternative algorithm which may be slightly preferable: Quarter
the coin balances instead of square-rooting them.]

If the votes on the proposal titled "From each according to eir
means" authored by twg are such that it has been or will undoubtedly
be ADOPTED, then this proposal has no effect.

For each facility owned by a player, transfer all coins owned by that
facility to its owner.

For each zombie owned by a player, transfer all coins owned by that
zombie to its owner.

Decrease the coin balance of each player to one-quarter (rounded up to
the next largest integer) of however many coins e possessed before
this sentence took effect.

//
ID: 8080
Title: From each according to eir means v3
Adoption index: 2.0
Author: Aris
Co-author(s): twg


If the votes on any proposal, the title of which contains "From each",
authored by twg, are such that it has been or will undoubtedly
be ADOPTED, then this proposal has no effect.

For each facility owned by a player, transfer all coins owned by that
facility to its owner.

For each zombie owned by a player, transfer all coins owned by that
zombie to its owner.

Decrease the coin balance of each player to one-tenth (rounded up to
the next largest integer) of however many coins e possessed before
this sentence took effect.

//
ID: 8081
Title: Point Installation Act v2
Adoption index: 3.0
Author: Aris
Co-authors: G., twg


Create the following Rule, Points, AI-2.0:

  Points are the official currency of Agora.  Points can
  only be owned by players and Agora.  Points are tracked by the
  Treasuror.


For each player, create a number of points in eir possession equal
to either (A) the number of coins e had immediately before this proposal
took effect, or (B) 1000, whichever is less.


[Why am I doing things in this rule that could 

DIS: Promotor draft report

[Aris Merchant]

Here's my intermittent weekly draft.

-Aris
---

I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the
quorum is 6.0 and the valid options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is
also a valid vote, as are conditional votes).

ID Author(s)  AI   TitlePender  Pend fee
---
7965*  Trigon 3.0  One pronoun fix  Trigon  1 AP
7966*  ATMunn 1.0  But I already live there!o   1 AP
7967*  V.J. Rada  1.0  Rhyming sux tbh  V.J. Rada   1 AP
7968*  Alexis, [2]2.0  Backed Out the Door  Alexis  OP [1]
7969*  V.J. Rada, [3] 3.0  Obvious fix  V.J. Rada   2 sh.
7970*  V.J. Rada  2.0  Referee Minor FixV.J. Rada   2 sh.
7971*  V.J. Rada, [3] 2.0  Cleanup Time V.J. Rada   2 sh.


The proposal pool currently contains the following proposals:

ID   Author(s) AI   Title
---
pp1  Alexis1.7  A Most Ingenious Paradox
pp2  G.2.0  Silly Tweaks
pp3  ATMunn, [3]   1.0  [4]


Legend: * : Proposal is pending.

[1] Official Proposal, inherently pending
[2] Telnaior, ais523, Aris, G.
[3] Alexis
[4] No title


A proposal may be pended for 1 AP, or for 1/20th the Floating Value
in shines (see the Treasuror's report).

The full text of the aforementioned proposals is included below.

//
ID: 7965
Title: One pronoun fix
Adoption index: 3.0
Author: Trigon
Co-authors:


Replace the word "his" in the second paragraph of Rule 2438 ("Ribbons") with
"eir".

//
ID: 7966
Title: But I already live there
Adoption index: 1.0
Author: Trigon
Co-authors:


Amend rule 2474 "Green Cards" by replacing the text "the United States" with
"Brazil".

//
ID: 7967
Title: Rhyming sux tbh
Adoption index: 1.0
Author: V.J. Rada
Co-authors:


Repeal rule 1650, "Silliness"
Repeal the rule called "Poetry Duel Challenge Writ

//
ID: 7968
Title: Backed Out the Door
Adoption index: 2.0
Author: Alexis
Co-authors: Telnaior, ais523, Aris, G.


Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Political Parties", reading as
follows:

  There are 5 Parties, in order:

  - Platonic Isolationists
  - New Punchbowl Reformers
  - Costume Conservatives
  - Substance Use Liberals
  - Official Raving Monster Looney Party

  Politicians are entities; each Politician has a name and an
  associated Party. Politicians exist only as specified by the
  rules. Creating, altering, or destroying Politicians is secured.

  If there are ever fewer than 20 Politicians, then the Clork CAN
  and SHALL, by announcement, create a new Politician, specifying
  eir Party and name. The Party must be selected at random from:

  - If any Party has fewer than 3 Politicans, the Party or Parties
with the fewest.
  - Otherwise, the Parties with fewer than 5 Politicians.

Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Clork", reading as follows:

  The Clork (pronounced "clark") is an office. The Clork's weekly
  report includes:
  - a list of all Politicans with their names and Parties.
  - the assignment of Policies to Parties.

  The portion of a document purporting to be a Clork's report
  containing the above information is self-ratifying.

Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Echelon Forms", reading as follows:

  A Post is a position which can be held by at most one Politician.
  Each Politican can hold at most one Post at a time. Each Post is
  in an Echelon, which has an associated Rank. The Echelons, and
  their Posts and Ranks, are as follows:

  Chamber of Power (Rank 5):
  - Host
  Upper Echelon (Rank 3):
  - Planner
  - Enforcer
  - Organizer
  - Creep
  Row Echelon (Rank 1):
  - Schmoozer
  - Decorator
  - Loner
  - Drunk
  - Mystery
  - Wild One
  - Hat Rack

  Each Politician who holds a Post is in the Echelon of that post;
  other Politicians are in the Row-Reduced Echelon, which has Rank
  0. Likewise, the Rank of a Post or Politician is the Rank of their
  Echelon.

  If a rule provides that a Post can take an action, then the
  Advisor of the holder of that Post CAN take that action. If there
  is no such player, and the Post is required to take that action,
  then the Clork CAN do it prior to any deadline for its
  performance. After a deadline for a Post to perform an action, any
  player CAN take it.

Enact a new power-2 rule entitled "Taken Under Advisement", reading as
follows:

  Advisor is a Politician switch, tracked by the Clork, with
  possible values all players and none (default). For each
  

Re: DIS: [Promotor] Draft Report

[VJ Rada]

o. is a co-author of I Demand Faster Auctions, which you do not list here.

On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 1:57 AM, Alexis Hunt  wrote:
> Also my two proposals about the mailing lists.
>
> On Mon, 23 Oct 2017 at 09:17 Alexis Hunt  wrote:
>>
>> I believe my high power cleanup proposal is missing.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 09:11 ATMunn .,  wrote:
>>>
>>> Looks good to me.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 2:14 AM, Aris Merchant
>>>  wrote:

 Just a draft to make sure I haven't messed something up again.

 -Aris

 ---
 I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
 Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
 pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the
 quorum is 8.0 and the valid options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is
 also a valid vote).

 ID Author(s)  AI   TitlePender  Pend
 fee

 ---
 7931*  G. 3.0  Registration fix finally G.  1
 sh.
 7932*  ATMunn, [1]1.0  A Reward for Obedience v4ATMunn  1
 sh.
 7933*  Alexis 3.0  Ribbon Preservation Act  Alexis  1
 sh.
 7934*  天火狐  1.0  Poetry Duel Challenge Writ   天火狐   OP [2]
 7935*  Trigon 1.0  Revision Limits  Trigon  1 AP
 7936*  V.J. Rada  2.0  Print Money  V.J. Rada   1 AP
 7937*  V.J. Rada  2.0  I Demand Faster Auctions V.J. Rada   1 AP
 7938*  Aris   3.0  Fix Campaign Proposals   Aris1 AP
 7939*  V.J. Rada  1.0  Repeal the Reportor  V.J. Rada   1
 sh.

 The proposal pool currently contains the following proposals:

 IDAuthor(s) AI   Title

 ---
 pp1   G.3.0  I've never seen this done

 [1] Aris, Alexis, G.
 [2] Official Proposal, inherently pending

 A proposal may be pended for 1 AP, or for 1/20th the Floating Value
 in shines (see the Treasuror's report).

 The full text of the aforementioned proposals is included below.

 //
 ID: 7931
 Title: Registration fix finally
 Adoption index: 3.0
 Author: G.
 Co-authors:


 [It looks like we have various ways for players to make money now so
 the re-registration bug can be fixed.  Also clearly defines the verb
 "to register" and makes it clear that registered persons can't "re"
 register].


 Amend Rule 869 (How to Join and Leave Agora) by replacing:

   Citizenship is a person switch with values Unregistered
   (default) and Registered, tracked by the Registrar.  Changes to
   citizenship are secured.  A registered person is a Player.

   A person CAN (unless explicitly forbidden or prevented by the
   rules) register by publishing a message that indicates
   reasonably clearly and reasonably unambiguously that e intends
   to become a player at that time.  A person, by registering,
   agrees to abide by the Rules.  The Rules CANNOT otherwise bind a
   person to abide by any agreement without that person's willful
   consent.

   A player CAN deregister (cease being a player) by announcement.
   If e does so, e CANNOT register by announcement for 30 days.

 with:

   Citizenship is a person switch with values Unregistered
   (default) and Registered, tracked by the Registrar.  Changes to
   citizenship are secured.  A registered person is a Player.
   To "register" someone is to flip that person's Citizenship
   switch from Unregistered to Registered.

   An Unregistered person CAN (unless explicitly forbidden or
   prevented by the rules) register by publishing a message that
   indicates reasonably clearly and reasonably unambiguously that e
   intends to become a player at that time. A player CAN deregister
   (cease being a player) by announcement. If e does so, e CANNOT
   register or be registered for 30 days.

   A person, by registering, agrees to abide by the Rules.  The
   Rules CANNOT otherwise bind a person to abide by any agreement
   without that person's willful consent.

 //
 ID: 7932
 Title: A Reward for Obedience v4
 Adoption index: 1.0
 Author: ATMunn
 Co-authors: Aris, Alexis, G.

 Repeal rule 2482, "Victory Elections"

 Create a new power-1 rule titled "Medals of Honour"
 {
   Medals of Honour are a destructible fixed currency tracked by the

Re: DIS: [Promotor] Draft Report

[Alexis Hunt]

Also my two proposals about the mailing lists.

On Mon, 23 Oct 2017 at 09:17 Alexis Hunt  wrote:

> I believe my high power cleanup proposal is missing.
>
> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 09:11 ATMunn .,  wrote:
>
>> Looks good to me.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 2:14 AM, Aris Merchant <
>> thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Just a draft to make sure I haven't messed something up again.
>>>
>>> -Aris
>>>
>>> ---
>>> I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
>>> Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
>>> pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the
>>> quorum is 8.0 and the valid options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is
>>> also a valid vote).
>>>
>>> ID Author(s)  AI   TitlePender  Pend
>>> fee
>>>
>>> ---
>>> 7931*  G. 3.0  Registration fix finally G.  1 sh.
>>> 7932*  ATMunn, [1]1.0  A Reward for Obedience v4ATMunn  1 sh.
>>> 7933*  Alexis 3.0  Ribbon Preservation Act  Alexis  1 sh.
>>> 7934*  天火狐  1.0  Poetry Duel Challenge Writ   天火狐   OP [2]
>>> 7935*  Trigon 1.0  Revision Limits  Trigon  1 AP
>>> 7936*  V.J. Rada  2.0  Print Money  V.J. Rada   1 AP
>>> 7937*  V.J. Rada  2.0  I Demand Faster Auctions V.J. Rada   1 AP
>>> 7938*  Aris   3.0  Fix Campaign Proposals   Aris1 AP
>>> 7939*  V.J. Rada  1.0  Repeal the Reportor  V.J. Rada   1 sh.
>>>
>>> The proposal pool currently contains the following proposals:
>>>
>>> IDAuthor(s) AI   Title
>>>
>>> ---
>>> pp1   G.3.0  I've never seen this done
>>>
>>> [1] Aris, Alexis, G.
>>> [2] Official Proposal, inherently pending
>>>
>>> A proposal may be pended for 1 AP, or for 1/20th the Floating Value
>>> in shines (see the Treasuror's report).
>>>
>>> The full text of the aforementioned proposals is included below.
>>>
>>> //
>>> ID: 7931
>>> Title: Registration fix finally
>>> Adoption index: 3.0
>>> Author: G.
>>> Co-authors:
>>>
>>>
>>> [It looks like we have various ways for players to make money now so
>>> the re-registration bug can be fixed.  Also clearly defines the verb
>>> "to register" and makes it clear that registered persons can't "re"
>>> register].
>>>
>>>
>>> Amend Rule 869 (How to Join and Leave Agora) by replacing:
>>>
>>>   Citizenship is a person switch with values Unregistered
>>>   (default) and Registered, tracked by the Registrar.  Changes to
>>>   citizenship are secured.  A registered person is a Player.
>>>
>>>   A person CAN (unless explicitly forbidden or prevented by the
>>>   rules) register by publishing a message that indicates
>>>   reasonably clearly and reasonably unambiguously that e intends
>>>   to become a player at that time.  A person, by registering,
>>>   agrees to abide by the Rules.  The Rules CANNOT otherwise bind a
>>>   person to abide by any agreement without that person's willful
>>>   consent.
>>>
>>>   A player CAN deregister (cease being a player) by announcement.
>>>   If e does so, e CANNOT register by announcement for 30 days.
>>>
>>> with:
>>>
>>>   Citizenship is a person switch with values Unregistered
>>>   (default) and Registered, tracked by the Registrar.  Changes to
>>>   citizenship are secured.  A registered person is a Player.
>>>   To "register" someone is to flip that person's Citizenship
>>>   switch from Unregistered to Registered.
>>>
>>>   An Unregistered person CAN (unless explicitly forbidden or
>>>   prevented by the rules) register by publishing a message that
>>>   indicates reasonably clearly and reasonably unambiguously that e
>>>   intends to become a player at that time. A player CAN deregister
>>>   (cease being a player) by announcement. If e does so, e CANNOT
>>>   register or be registered for 30 days.
>>>
>>>   A person, by registering, agrees to abide by the Rules.  The
>>>   Rules CANNOT otherwise bind a person to abide by any agreement
>>>   without that person's willful consent.
>>>
>>> //
>>> ID: 7932
>>> Title: A Reward for Obedience v4
>>> Adoption index: 1.0
>>> Author: ATMunn
>>> Co-authors: Aris, Alexis, G.
>>>
>>> Repeal rule 2482, "Victory Elections"
>>>
>>> Create a new power-1 rule titled "Medals of Honour"
>>> {
>>>   Medals of Honour are a destructible fixed currency tracked by the
>>> Herald.
>>>
>>>   In the 7 days of an Agoran month, any player CAN declare emself to be
>>>   eligible for a Medal of Honour by announcement if all of the following
>>> are
>>>   true:
>>>
>>>   * E has made at least 1 message to a public forum in the last Agoran
>>> month.
>>>   * Eir 

Re: DIS: [Promotor] Draft Report

[Alexis Hunt]

I believe my high power cleanup proposal is missing.

On Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 09:11 ATMunn .,  wrote:

> Looks good to me.
>
> On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 2:14 AM, Aris Merchant <
> thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Just a draft to make sure I haven't messed something up again.
>>
>> -Aris
>>
>> ---
>> I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
>> Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
>> pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the
>> quorum is 8.0 and the valid options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is
>> also a valid vote).
>>
>> ID Author(s)  AI   TitlePender  Pend
>> fee
>>
>> ---
>> 7931*  G. 3.0  Registration fix finally G.  1 sh.
>> 7932*  ATMunn, [1]1.0  A Reward for Obedience v4ATMunn  1 sh.
>> 7933*  Alexis 3.0  Ribbon Preservation Act  Alexis  1 sh.
>> 7934*  天火狐  1.0  Poetry Duel Challenge Writ   天火狐   OP [2]
>> 7935*  Trigon 1.0  Revision Limits  Trigon  1 AP
>> 7936*  V.J. Rada  2.0  Print Money  V.J. Rada   1 AP
>> 7937*  V.J. Rada  2.0  I Demand Faster Auctions V.J. Rada   1 AP
>> 7938*  Aris   3.0  Fix Campaign Proposals   Aris1 AP
>> 7939*  V.J. Rada  1.0  Repeal the Reportor  V.J. Rada   1 sh.
>>
>> The proposal pool currently contains the following proposals:
>>
>> IDAuthor(s) AI   Title
>>
>> ---
>> pp1   G.3.0  I've never seen this done
>>
>> [1] Aris, Alexis, G.
>> [2] Official Proposal, inherently pending
>>
>> A proposal may be pended for 1 AP, or for 1/20th the Floating Value
>> in shines (see the Treasuror's report).
>>
>> The full text of the aforementioned proposals is included below.
>>
>> //
>> ID: 7931
>> Title: Registration fix finally
>> Adoption index: 3.0
>> Author: G.
>> Co-authors:
>>
>>
>> [It looks like we have various ways for players to make money now so
>> the re-registration bug can be fixed.  Also clearly defines the verb
>> "to register" and makes it clear that registered persons can't "re"
>> register].
>>
>>
>> Amend Rule 869 (How to Join and Leave Agora) by replacing:
>>
>>   Citizenship is a person switch with values Unregistered
>>   (default) and Registered, tracked by the Registrar.  Changes to
>>   citizenship are secured.  A registered person is a Player.
>>
>>   A person CAN (unless explicitly forbidden or prevented by the
>>   rules) register by publishing a message that indicates
>>   reasonably clearly and reasonably unambiguously that e intends
>>   to become a player at that time.  A person, by registering,
>>   agrees to abide by the Rules.  The Rules CANNOT otherwise bind a
>>   person to abide by any agreement without that person's willful
>>   consent.
>>
>>   A player CAN deregister (cease being a player) by announcement.
>>   If e does so, e CANNOT register by announcement for 30 days.
>>
>> with:
>>
>>   Citizenship is a person switch with values Unregistered
>>   (default) and Registered, tracked by the Registrar.  Changes to
>>   citizenship are secured.  A registered person is a Player.
>>   To "register" someone is to flip that person's Citizenship
>>   switch from Unregistered to Registered.
>>
>>   An Unregistered person CAN (unless explicitly forbidden or
>>   prevented by the rules) register by publishing a message that
>>   indicates reasonably clearly and reasonably unambiguously that e
>>   intends to become a player at that time. A player CAN deregister
>>   (cease being a player) by announcement. If e does so, e CANNOT
>>   register or be registered for 30 days.
>>
>>   A person, by registering, agrees to abide by the Rules.  The
>>   Rules CANNOT otherwise bind a person to abide by any agreement
>>   without that person's willful consent.
>>
>> //
>> ID: 7932
>> Title: A Reward for Obedience v4
>> Adoption index: 1.0
>> Author: ATMunn
>> Co-authors: Aris, Alexis, G.
>>
>> Repeal rule 2482, "Victory Elections"
>>
>> Create a new power-1 rule titled "Medals of Honour"
>> {
>>   Medals of Honour are a destructible fixed currency tracked by the
>> Herald.
>>
>>   In the 7 days of an Agoran month, any player CAN declare emself to be
>>   eligible for a Medal of Honour by announcement if all of the following
>> are
>>   true:
>>
>>   * E has made at least 1 message to a public forum in the last Agoran
>> month.
>>   * Eir Karma is not below -3.
>>   * In the last Agoran month, e has not had a Card issued to em.
>>
>>   In the 7 days of an Agoran month after the first 7 days, if there are
>> any
>>   players who are eligible for a Medal of Honour, the Herald 

Re: DIS: [Promotor] Draft Report

[ATMunn .]

Looks good to me.

On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 2:14 AM, Aris Merchant <
thoughtsoflifeandligh...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Just a draft to make sure I haven't messed something up again.
>
> -Aris
>
> ---
> I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
> Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
> pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the
> quorum is 8.0 and the valid options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is
> also a valid vote).
>
> ID Author(s)  AI   TitlePender  Pend
> fee
> 
> ---
> 7931*  G. 3.0  Registration fix finally G.  1 sh.
> 7932*  ATMunn, [1]1.0  A Reward for Obedience v4ATMunn  1 sh.
> 7933*  Alexis 3.0  Ribbon Preservation Act  Alexis  1 sh.
> 7934*  天火狐  1.0  Poetry Duel Challenge Writ   天火狐   OP [2]
> 7935*  Trigon 1.0  Revision Limits  Trigon  1 AP
> 7936*  V.J. Rada  2.0  Print Money  V.J. Rada   1 AP
> 7937*  V.J. Rada  2.0  I Demand Faster Auctions V.J. Rada   1 AP
> 7938*  Aris   3.0  Fix Campaign Proposals   Aris1 AP
> 7939*  V.J. Rada  1.0  Repeal the Reportor  V.J. Rada   1 sh.
>
> The proposal pool currently contains the following proposals:
>
> IDAuthor(s) AI   Title
> 
> ---
> pp1   G.3.0  I've never seen this done
>
> [1] Aris, Alexis, G.
> [2] Official Proposal, inherently pending
>
> A proposal may be pended for 1 AP, or for 1/20th the Floating Value
> in shines (see the Treasuror's report).
>
> The full text of the aforementioned proposals is included below.
>
> //
> ID: 7931
> Title: Registration fix finally
> Adoption index: 3.0
> Author: G.
> Co-authors:
>
>
> [It looks like we have various ways for players to make money now so
> the re-registration bug can be fixed.  Also clearly defines the verb
> "to register" and makes it clear that registered persons can't "re"
> register].
>
>
> Amend Rule 869 (How to Join and Leave Agora) by replacing:
>
>   Citizenship is a person switch with values Unregistered
>   (default) and Registered, tracked by the Registrar.  Changes to
>   citizenship are secured.  A registered person is a Player.
>
>   A person CAN (unless explicitly forbidden or prevented by the
>   rules) register by publishing a message that indicates
>   reasonably clearly and reasonably unambiguously that e intends
>   to become a player at that time.  A person, by registering,
>   agrees to abide by the Rules.  The Rules CANNOT otherwise bind a
>   person to abide by any agreement without that person's willful
>   consent.
>
>   A player CAN deregister (cease being a player) by announcement.
>   If e does so, e CANNOT register by announcement for 30 days.
>
> with:
>
>   Citizenship is a person switch with values Unregistered
>   (default) and Registered, tracked by the Registrar.  Changes to
>   citizenship are secured.  A registered person is a Player.
>   To "register" someone is to flip that person's Citizenship
>   switch from Unregistered to Registered.
>
>   An Unregistered person CAN (unless explicitly forbidden or
>   prevented by the rules) register by publishing a message that
>   indicates reasonably clearly and reasonably unambiguously that e
>   intends to become a player at that time. A player CAN deregister
>   (cease being a player) by announcement. If e does so, e CANNOT
>   register or be registered for 30 days.
>
>   A person, by registering, agrees to abide by the Rules.  The
>   Rules CANNOT otherwise bind a person to abide by any agreement
>   without that person's willful consent.
>
> //
> ID: 7932
> Title: A Reward for Obedience v4
> Adoption index: 1.0
> Author: ATMunn
> Co-authors: Aris, Alexis, G.
>
> Repeal rule 2482, "Victory Elections"
>
> Create a new power-1 rule titled "Medals of Honour"
> {
>   Medals of Honour are a destructible fixed currency tracked by the Herald.
>
>   In the 7 days of an Agoran month, any player CAN declare emself to be
>   eligible for a Medal of Honour by announcement if all of the following
> are
>   true:
>
>   * E has made at least 1 message to a public forum in the last Agoran
> month.
>   * Eir Karma is not below -3.
>   * In the last Agoran month, e has not had a Card issued to em.
>
>   In the 7 days of an Agoran month after the first 7 days, if there are any
>   players who are eligible for a Medal of Honour, the Herald CAN, by
>   announcement, initiate an Agoran Decision on who is to be awarded a
>   Medal of Honour. E SHALL do so within the 7 days of an Agoran month after
>   the first 7 days. For this decision, the valid votes are all players who
>   are eligible 

DIS: [Promotor] Draft Report

[Aris Merchant]

Just a draft to make sure I haven't messed something up again.

-Aris

---
I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the
quorum is 8.0 and the valid options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is
also a valid vote).

ID Author(s)  AI   TitlePender  Pend fee
---
7931*  G. 3.0  Registration fix finally G.  1 sh.
7932*  ATMunn, [1]1.0  A Reward for Obedience v4ATMunn  1 sh.
7933*  Alexis 3.0  Ribbon Preservation Act  Alexis  1 sh.
7934*  天火狐  1.0  Poetry Duel Challenge Writ   天火狐   OP [2]
7935*  Trigon 1.0  Revision Limits  Trigon  1 AP
7936*  V.J. Rada  2.0  Print Money  V.J. Rada   1 AP
7937*  V.J. Rada  2.0  I Demand Faster Auctions V.J. Rada   1 AP
7938*  Aris   3.0  Fix Campaign Proposals   Aris1 AP
7939*  V.J. Rada  1.0  Repeal the Reportor  V.J. Rada   1 sh.

The proposal pool currently contains the following proposals:

IDAuthor(s) AI   Title
---
pp1   G.3.0  I've never seen this done

[1] Aris, Alexis, G.
[2] Official Proposal, inherently pending

A proposal may be pended for 1 AP, or for 1/20th the Floating Value
in shines (see the Treasuror's report).

The full text of the aforementioned proposals is included below.

//
ID: 7931
Title: Registration fix finally
Adoption index: 3.0
Author: G.
Co-authors:


[It looks like we have various ways for players to make money now so
the re-registration bug can be fixed.  Also clearly defines the verb
"to register" and makes it clear that registered persons can't "re"
register].


Amend Rule 869 (How to Join and Leave Agora) by replacing:

  Citizenship is a person switch with values Unregistered
  (default) and Registered, tracked by the Registrar.  Changes to
  citizenship are secured.  A registered person is a Player.

  A person CAN (unless explicitly forbidden or prevented by the
  rules) register by publishing a message that indicates
  reasonably clearly and reasonably unambiguously that e intends
  to become a player at that time.  A person, by registering,
  agrees to abide by the Rules.  The Rules CANNOT otherwise bind a
  person to abide by any agreement without that person's willful
  consent.

  A player CAN deregister (cease being a player) by announcement.
  If e does so, e CANNOT register by announcement for 30 days.

with:

  Citizenship is a person switch with values Unregistered
  (default) and Registered, tracked by the Registrar.  Changes to
  citizenship are secured.  A registered person is a Player.
  To "register" someone is to flip that person's Citizenship
  switch from Unregistered to Registered.

  An Unregistered person CAN (unless explicitly forbidden or
  prevented by the rules) register by publishing a message that
  indicates reasonably clearly and reasonably unambiguously that e
  intends to become a player at that time. A player CAN deregister
  (cease being a player) by announcement. If e does so, e CANNOT
  register or be registered for 30 days.

  A person, by registering, agrees to abide by the Rules.  The
  Rules CANNOT otherwise bind a person to abide by any agreement
  without that person's willful consent.

//
ID: 7932
Title: A Reward for Obedience v4
Adoption index: 1.0
Author: ATMunn
Co-authors: Aris, Alexis, G.

Repeal rule 2482, "Victory Elections"

Create a new power-1 rule titled "Medals of Honour"
{
  Medals of Honour are a destructible fixed currency tracked by the Herald.

  In the 7 days of an Agoran month, any player CAN declare emself to be
  eligible for a Medal of Honour by announcement if all of the following are
  true:

  * E has made at least 1 message to a public forum in the last Agoran month.
  * Eir Karma is not below -3.
  * In the last Agoran month, e has not had a Card issued to em.

  In the 7 days of an Agoran month after the first 7 days, if there are any
  players who are eligible for a Medal of Honour, the Herald CAN, by
  announcement, initiate an Agoran Decision on who is to be awarded a
  Medal of Honour. E SHALL do so within the 7 days of an Agoran month after
  the first 7 days. For this decision, the valid votes are all players who
  are eligible for a Medal of Honour, the vote collector is the Herald, and
  the voting method is instant-runoff. Upon the resolution of this decision,
  the Herald CAN, and SHALL in a timely fashion, award the outcome of the
  decision a Medal of Honour by announcement. After a player is awarded a
  Medal of Honour, all players who were 

Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Promotor draft report

[Kerim Aydin]

On Fri, 1 Sep 2017, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> To be clear, I think your proposed fix of "making lots of simple ways to
> earn shinies" would work just as well as a fixed basic income, as long as
> there are enough of those things from the beginning for non-officer players
> to do, that they can have some level of positive equilibrium without a 
> huge amount of effort.  One suggestion I'd really encourage is putting
> together a basic simulation to figure out where equilibrium points might lie
> in this game, and making sure there's no split between the "haves" and the
> "have-nots" in the equilibrium.

Another possible solution:  make the welcome purse some kind of 
income-generating
investment (e.g. land or similar, modified to have some kind of earning) rather
than cash.

Maybe everyone could have a land grant, but the rules for earning shinies from
land grants can vary to have some of the diminishing return behavior you
suggested earlier.

Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Promotor draft report

[Kerim Aydin]

On Thu, 31 Aug 2017, Nic Evans wrote:
> On 08/31/17 16:50, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 31 Aug 2017, Nic Evans wrote:
> >>> I'm opposed to anything that doesn't scale with need. A regular payday
> >>> would mostly benefit the already successful players.
> > This is where I disagree, primarily.  We've never had a system that didn't
> > allow a base level of activity on a weekly or monthly level (proposals & 
> > CFJs)
> > just for being a player.
> 
> I'm not sure I see the complaint here. Under AP there is a minimum, and
> in Debts you can just keep making CFJs and proposals indefinitely - you
> just can't buy stamps or estates until you settle debts.

So first, no complaints about the AP (other than it slows the economy down
some, which is what debts is trying to fix).

So the issues I see with your current debt scheme scheme are:

1.  Game balance.  Stamps and estates (in theory) let you earn more cash.
So locking people without a standing income out of those systems exacerbates
the split between have and have-nots.  Related:  catch-up, how long should
a new player need to play before they can earn enough to be competitive with
the longer-standing players?

2.  Incentives.  If the only way to get out of debts is to become an officer,
it makes "becoming an officer" a game incentive.  This leads to lots of
low-effort offices, new players feeling they have to jump in and be an
officer (then flaking on reports).  Officers should be rewarded, sure, but
it shouldn't be a basic requirement of play - we do better when the offices
are taken out of duty/fun, with rewards being secondary.

3.  Discourages economic activity.  With no way to earn shinies, I'm holding
onto my welcome package with an iron fist.

4.  Discourages other game activity.  If this means I make fewer proposals
to hold onto those shinies, that's what I do.

To be clear, I think your proposed fix of "making lots of simple ways to
earn shinies" would work just as well as a fixed basic income, as long as
there are enough of those things from the beginning for non-officer players
to do, that they can have some level of positive equilibrium without a 
huge amount of effort.  One suggestion I'd really encourage is putting
together a basic simulation to figure out where equilibrium points might lie
in this game, and making sure there's no split between the "haves" and the
"have-nots" in the equilibrium.

Other Idea:  Economic revolution.  Debtor players can start a revolt that,
if successful, wipes out their debts.

Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Promotor draft report

[Nicholas Evans]

I withdraw the proposal titled Debts.

On Sep 1, 2017 1:21 AM, "Aris Merchant" 
wrote:

> nichdel, is debts being pulled? I should be releasing fairly soonish (as
> in the next day or two).
>
> -Aris
>
> On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 3:30 PM Nic Evans  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 08/31/17 16:50, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>> >
>> > On Thu, 31 Aug 2017, Nic Evans wrote:
>> >>> I'm opposed to anything that doesn't scale with need. A regular payday
>> >>> would mostly benefit the already successful players.
>> > This is where I disagree, primarily.  We've never had a system that
>> didn't
>> > allow a base level of activity on a weekly or monthly level (proposals
>> & CFJs)
>> > just for being a player.
>>
>> I'm not sure I see the complaint here. Under AP there is a minimum, and
>> in Debts you can just keep making CFJs and proposals indefinitely - you
>> just can't buy stamps or estates until you settle debts.
>>
>> What I mean here is that giving X shinies to each player is a
>> compounding advantage for players that are really good with shinies.
>> They don't need that advantage. Thus, any free shinies should be given
>> out based on need, and when a player reaches a point where they can
>> efficiently use their shinies, they don't receive the bonus anymore.
>>
>> >
>> > And officer-work, volunteer as it is, has always granted perks within
>> the
>> > system, and I think it's important to reward work.  I'm not sure why a
>> regular
>> > payday is a bad thing - if accumulation is an issue, I'd suggest
>> dealing with
>> > it on the other side with taxes.
>> >
>> > I'm willing to try various systems, but don't like moving away from the
>> > two principles of "everyone's allowed to have a base activity level" and
>> > "officers get some rewards above that".
>> >
>> >> Actually, on this note maybe we should consider a monthly set of shiny
>> >> rewards for minor achivements. Things like:
>> >>
>> >> *Authoring the most passed proposals in the last month
>> >> *Judging the most CFJs in the last month
>> >> *Being the director of the most used agency in the last month
>> >> *Etc
>> >>
>> >> Ideally, things that any player could accomplish at any time.
>> > An old system we had:
>> >
>> > You could be awarded Boons for doing good things and Albatrosses for
>> doing
>> > bad things.  Everything from standard office-keeping to random
>> occasional
>> > things (like Birthday recognition) granted boons.  Monthly activity
>> level
>> > each month was Base + Boons - Albatrosses (as earned in previous month).
>> >
>> > Glance through following randomly-selected ruleset for Boon to see
>> range of
>> > things we awarded:
>> > https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/
>> agora-official/2004-September/001691.html
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>

Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Promotor draft report

[Aris Merchant]

nichdel, is debts being pulled? I should be releasing fairly soonish (as in
the next day or two).

-Aris

On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 3:30 PM Nic Evans  wrote:

>
>
> On 08/31/17 16:50, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 31 Aug 2017, Nic Evans wrote:
> >>> I'm opposed to anything that doesn't scale with need. A regular payday
> >>> would mostly benefit the already successful players.
> > This is where I disagree, primarily.  We've never had a system that
> didn't
> > allow a base level of activity on a weekly or monthly level (proposals &
> CFJs)
> > just for being a player.
>
> I'm not sure I see the complaint here. Under AP there is a minimum, and
> in Debts you can just keep making CFJs and proposals indefinitely - you
> just can't buy stamps or estates until you settle debts.
>
> What I mean here is that giving X shinies to each player is a
> compounding advantage for players that are really good with shinies.
> They don't need that advantage. Thus, any free shinies should be given
> out based on need, and when a player reaches a point where they can
> efficiently use their shinies, they don't receive the bonus anymore.
>
> >
> > And officer-work, volunteer as it is, has always granted perks within the
> > system, and I think it's important to reward work.  I'm not sure why a
> regular
> > payday is a bad thing - if accumulation is an issue, I'd suggest dealing
> with
> > it on the other side with taxes.
> >
> > I'm willing to try various systems, but don't like moving away from the
> > two principles of "everyone's allowed to have a base activity level" and
> > "officers get some rewards above that".
> >
> >> Actually, on this note maybe we should consider a monthly set of shiny
> >> rewards for minor achivements. Things like:
> >>
> >> *Authoring the most passed proposals in the last month
> >> *Judging the most CFJs in the last month
> >> *Being the director of the most used agency in the last month
> >> *Etc
> >>
> >> Ideally, things that any player could accomplish at any time.
> > An old system we had:
> >
> > You could be awarded Boons for doing good things and Albatrosses for
> doing
> > bad things.  Everything from standard office-keeping to random occasional
> > things (like Birthday recognition) granted boons.  Monthly activity level
> > each month was Base + Boons - Albatrosses (as earned in previous month).
> >
> > Glance through following randomly-selected ruleset for Boon to see range
> of
> > things we awarded:
> >
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-official/2004-September/001691.html
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Promotor draft report

[Nic Evans]

On 08/31/17 16:50, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>
> On Thu, 31 Aug 2017, Nic Evans wrote:
>>> I'm opposed to anything that doesn't scale with need. A regular payday
>>> would mostly benefit the already successful players.
> This is where I disagree, primarily.  We've never had a system that didn't
> allow a base level of activity on a weekly or monthly level (proposals & CFJs)
> just for being a player.

I'm not sure I see the complaint here. Under AP there is a minimum, and
in Debts you can just keep making CFJs and proposals indefinitely - you
just can't buy stamps or estates until you settle debts.

What I mean here is that giving X shinies to each player is a
compounding advantage for players that are really good with shinies.
They don't need that advantage. Thus, any free shinies should be given
out based on need, and when a player reaches a point where they can
efficiently use their shinies, they don't receive the bonus anymore.

>
> And officer-work, volunteer as it is, has always granted perks within the
> system, and I think it's important to reward work.  I'm not sure why a regular
> payday is a bad thing - if accumulation is an issue, I'd suggest dealing with
> it on the other side with taxes.
>
> I'm willing to try various systems, but don't like moving away from the
> two principles of "everyone's allowed to have a base activity level" and
> "officers get some rewards above that".
>
>> Actually, on this note maybe we should consider a monthly set of shiny
>> rewards for minor achivements. Things like:
>>
>> *Authoring the most passed proposals in the last month
>> *Judging the most CFJs in the last month
>> *Being the director of the most used agency in the last month
>> *Etc
>>
>> Ideally, things that any player could accomplish at any time.
> An old system we had:
>
> You could be awarded Boons for doing good things and Albatrosses for doing
> bad things.  Everything from standard office-keeping to random occasional
> things (like Birthday recognition) granted boons.  Monthly activity level
> each month was Base + Boons - Albatrosses (as earned in previous month).
>
> Glance through following randomly-selected ruleset for Boon to see range of
> things we awarded:
> https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-official/2004-September/001691.html
>
>
>




signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Promotor draft report

[Kerim Aydin]

On Thu, 31 Aug 2017, Nic Evans wrote:
> > I'm opposed to anything that doesn't scale with need. A regular payday
> > would mostly benefit the already successful players.

This is where I disagree, primarily.  We've never had a system that didn't
allow a base level of activity on a weekly or monthly level (proposals & CFJs)
just for being a player.

And officer-work, volunteer as it is, has always granted perks within the
system, and I think it's important to reward work.  I'm not sure why a regular
payday is a bad thing - if accumulation is an issue, I'd suggest dealing with
it on the other side with taxes.

I'm willing to try various systems, but don't like moving away from the
two principles of "everyone's allowed to have a base activity level" and
"officers get some rewards above that".

> Actually, on this note maybe we should consider a monthly set of shiny
> rewards for minor achivements. Things like:
> 
> *Authoring the most passed proposals in the last month
> *Judging the most CFJs in the last month
> *Being the director of the most used agency in the last month
> *Etc
> 
> Ideally, things that any player could accomplish at any time.

An old system we had:

You could be awarded Boons for doing good things and Albatrosses for doing
bad things.  Everything from standard office-keeping to random occasional
things (like Birthday recognition) granted boons.  Monthly activity level
each month was Base + Boons - Albatrosses (as earned in previous month).

Glance through following randomly-selected ruleset for Boon to see range of
things we awarded:
https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-official/2004-September/001691.html

Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Promotor draft report

[Nic Evans]

On 08/31/17 16:17, Nic Evans wrote:
> (I've been a bit distracted lately but I'm keeping up with conversation.)
>
> The current economy was designed with the idea of coupling economics
> closely to productivity. Creating work costs, and resolving work pays.
> It's intentionally difficult to profit without doing considerable work
> successfully. I'd like to keep it mostly that way. Maybe there's more
> behaviors we should be rewarding.

Actually, on this note maybe we should consider a monthly set of shiny
rewards for minor achivements. Things like:

*Authoring the most passed proposals in the last month
*Judging the most CFJs in the last month
*Being the director of the most used agency in the last month
*Etc

Ideally, things that any player could accomplish at any time.

>
> But I do agree with the current criticism as well. A welcome package
> isn't enough to get the economy rolling, especially for new players.
> There needs to be a way to fail and bounce back. AP circumvents the
> problem by reducing need for shinies, but it doesn't help new players
> get into the game. Debts solves problems AP introduced, but may very
> well permanently cripple anyone who makes a bad play or two.
> Supplemental income is probably necessary.
>
> I'm opposed to anything that doesn't scale with need. A regular payday
> would mostly benefit the already successful players. A bailout when a
> player reaches 0 shinies would benefit clever players who purposely zero
> their shinies. Overall wealth (shinies, debts, estates, and stamps)
> needs to somehow be a factor to ensure that it's not abusable by players
> that don't need it.
>
> Since stamps are easily liquified, the best solution may be a payday
> only accessible to people with 0 shinies and 0 stamps. I suspect there's
> ways to abuse even that (by trading stamps around and/or buying
> estates), but hopefully its benefits outweigh the negatives. I'm open to
> other suggestions as well.
>




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Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Promotor draft report

[Nic Evans]

On 08/29/17 13:00, Owen Jacobson wrote:
>> On Aug 29, 2017, at 10:54 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 29 Aug 2017, Owen Jacobson wrote:
 IDAuthor(s)   AI   Title
 ---
 pp1   nichdel, o, grok, Aris  3.0  Debts
 pp2   nichdel 1.0  Better Accounting
>>> I pend each of these proposals, using AP to do so.
>> Debts is badly broken for non-Officers and I'd recommend voting Against.  I 
>> was
>> hoping to see another draft because we want to get off AP, but this debts 
>> draft
>> is worse.
> Yeah, I’m doubtful it’ll pass. Nichdel can still withdraw the proposal, and I 
> do plan to vote AGAINST. I just figured that since I have nothing better to 
> do with my AP, I’d pretend they were Spending Power and use ‘em.
>
> -o
>

(I've been a bit distracted lately but I'm keeping up with conversation.)

The current economy was designed with the idea of coupling economics
closely to productivity. Creating work costs, and resolving work pays.
It's intentionally difficult to profit without doing considerable work
successfully. I'd like to keep it mostly that way. Maybe there's more
behaviors we should be rewarding.

But I do agree with the current criticism as well. A welcome package
isn't enough to get the economy rolling, especially for new players.
There needs to be a way to fail and bounce back. AP circumvents the
problem by reducing need for shinies, but it doesn't help new players
get into the game. Debts solves problems AP introduced, but may very
well permanently cripple anyone who makes a bad play or two.
Supplemental income is probably necessary.

I'm opposed to anything that doesn't scale with need. A regular payday
would mostly benefit the already successful players. A bailout when a
player reaches 0 shinies would benefit clever players who purposely zero
their shinies. Overall wealth (shinies, debts, estates, and stamps)
needs to somehow be a factor to ensure that it's not abusable by players
that don't need it.

Since stamps are easily liquified, the best solution may be a payday
only accessible to people with 0 shinies and 0 stamps. I suspect there's
ways to abuse even that (by trading stamps around and/or buying
estates), but hopefully its benefits outweigh the negatives. I'm open to
other suggestions as well.



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Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Promotor draft report

[Owen Jacobson]

> On Aug 29, 2017, at 10:54 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, 29 Aug 2017, Owen Jacobson wrote:
>>> IDAuthor(s)   AI   Title
>>> ---
>>> pp1   nichdel, o, grok, Aris  3.0  Debts
>>> pp2   nichdel 1.0  Better Accounting
>> 
>> I pend each of these proposals, using AP to do so.
> 
> Debts is badly broken for non-Officers and I'd recommend voting Against.  I 
> was
> hoping to see another draft because we want to get off AP, but this debts 
> draft
> is worse.

Yeah, I’m doubtful it’ll pass. Nichdel can still withdraw the proposal, and I 
do plan to vote AGAINST. I just figured that since I have nothing better to do 
with my AP, I’d pretend they were Spending Power and use ‘em.

-o



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Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Promotor draft report

[Kerim Aydin]

On Tue, 29 Aug 2017, Owen Jacobson wrote:
> > IDAuthor(s)   AI   Title
> > ---
> > pp1   nichdel, o, grok, Aris  3.0  Debts
> > pp2   nichdel 1.0  Better Accounting
> 
> I pend each of these proposals, using AP to do so.

Debts is badly broken for non-Officers and I'd recommend voting Against.  I was
hoping to see another draft because we want to get off AP, but this debts draft
is worse.

DIS: Promotor draft report

[Aris Merchant]

I'm trying something new with my draft this week. I have attempted
pleading, and begging and the like, and my previous reports have still
had occasional errors. I check all my reports numerous times, and then
do this whole drafting thing. Still occasional errors. So this week, I
decided to threaten my report. I have already impressed upon it the
seriousness of its accuracy. I here further inform it that it is
expected to be entirely and completely correct and complete in every
respect. Or else.

For your amusement,
-Aris


I hereby distribute each listed proposal, initiating the Agoran
Decision of whether to adopt it, and removing it from the proposal
pool. For this decision, the vote collector is the Assessor, the
quorum is 2.0 and the valid options are FOR and AGAINST (PRESENT is
also a valid vote).


ID Author(s) AI   Title   Pender  Pend fee
---
7872*  o 2.0  Estate Auction Cleanup  o   1 AP
7873*  o, babelian   2.0  Agoracultureo   1 AP
7874*  o 2.0  Shorter Apologies   o   3 sh.


The proposal pool currently contains the following proposals:

IDAuthor(s)   AI   Title
---
pp1   nichdel, o, grok, Aris  3.0  Debts
pp2   nichdel 1.0  Better Accounting
pp3   G.  1.0  The Return of Fear
pp4   G.  1.0  Pay the Arbitor

Legend: * : Proposal is pending.

The full text of the aforementioned proposals is included below.

//
ID: 7872
Title: Estate Auction Cleanup
Adoption index: 2.0
Author: o
Co-authors:


In Rule 2491 ("Estate Auctions"), replace the second paragraph with:

  During an auction, any player may bid a number of Shinies on eir
  own behalf by announcement, or on behalf of any Organization for
  which such a bid is Appropriate by announcement, provided the bid
  is higher than any previously-placed bid in the same auction.

  If, at the end of the auction, there is a single highest bid, then
  that player or Organization wins the auction. The player who
  placed the winning bid CAN cause Agora to transfer the auctioned
  Estate to the winner by announcement, by paying Agora the amount
  of the bid, or by causing the winning Organization to pay Agora
  the amount of the bid. E SHALL do so in a timely fashion.


//
ID: 7873
Title: Agoraculture
Adoption index: 2.0
Author: o
Co-authors: babelian


Enact a new rule, with power 1.0, titled "Farm Rate", with the following text:

  The Farm Rate is a natural singleton switch, tracked by the
  Agronomist.

Set the Farm Rate to 20.

Enact a new rule, with power 2.0, titled "Agoraculture", with the following
text:

  Each Estate has a Farm switch, tracked by the Agronomist, with
  values "farmed" and "unfarmed", defaulting to "unfarmed". Changes
  to Farm switches are secured. An Estate whose Farm switch is
  "farmed" is a Farm, and its owner is the Farmer of that Estate.

  In the first week of an Agoran month, the owner of an unfarmed
  Estate MAY flip its Farm switch to "farmed" by announcement, if e
  pays Agora a number of shinies equal to the Farm Rate.

  In the first week of an Agoran month, the owner of a Farm MAY till
  the farm by announcement, if e pays Agora a number of shinies equal
  to the Farm Rate. If the Farmer of an Estate does not till it
  within the first week of an Agoran month, the Agronomist CAN flip
  its Farm switch to "unfarmed" by announcement, and SHALL do so in a
  timely fashion.

  When an Estate is transferred to Agora or to an Organization, its
  Farm switch is set to "unfarmed" immediately afterwards.

Enact a new rule, with power 2.0, titled "Comestibles", with the following text:

  A Comestible is a type of liquid asset, which can be owned by
  players. Creating Comestibles is secured. The recordkeepor of
  Comestibles is the Agronomist.

  The Farmer of an Estate may offer Comestibles by announcement,
  naming a number of Comestibles offered and a price per Comestible
  in Shinies. A player CANNOT offer more Comestibles in a month than
  10 times the number of Farms e owns. The Farmer is ENCOURAGED to
  name the kind of Comestibles on offer after a plant, vegetable,
  grain, livestock, or other farm good.

  A player other than the offering Farmer may accept a Comestibles
  offer by announcement to create that number of Comestibles in eir
  possession, if e pays the offering Farmer the price per Comestible
  named in the offer times the number of Comestbiles offered. The
  Value of a Comestible created this way is equal to the price per
  Comestible offered by the Farmer.

  An offer expires at the end of the Agoran month in which it is
  made. Rules to the contrary