Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] Zombie Auction

[James Cook]

Did you mean to send that to BUS?

On Fri, 1 Mar 2019 at 20:42, Gaelan Steele  wrote:
>
> I bid a coin.
>
> Gaelan
>
> > On Mar 1, 2019, at 12:06 PM, D. Margaux  wrote:
> >
> > I initiate a zombie auction, with the following lots (each zombie a 
> > separate lot) ordered as follows (highest-bid first):
> >
> > 1. Tarhalindur
> >
> > Agora is the Auctioneer, and the Registrar is the Announcer.  The
> > currency is Coins with a minimum bid of 1.
>

DIS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] Zombie Auction

[Gaelan Steele]

I bid a coin.

Gaelan

> On Mar 1, 2019, at 12:06 PM, D. Margaux  wrote:
> 
> I initiate a zombie auction, with the following lots (each zombie a separate 
> lot) ordered as follows (highest-bid first):
> 
> 1. Tarhalindur 
> 
> Agora is the Auctioneer, and the Registrar is the Announcer.  The 
> currency is Coins with a minimum bid of 1.



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] Zombie auction results

[Kerim Aydin]

Oh, yeah... that makes sense, it *would* have been totally unfair if the 
Registrar could do that!

On Mon, 9 Apr 2018, Gaelan Steele wrote:
> Sorry, I was wrong here. I assumed auctions worked like Agoran decisions 
> in that the auction ended when it was resolved, and you were just 
> obligated to end it after a certain period of time. You're right, and I
> should make sure that I understand the rules better when I talk about 
> these things. 
> 
> Gaelan 
> 
> > On Apr 9, 2018, at 11:16 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >> On Mon, 9 Apr 2018, Gaelan Steele wrote:
> >> Is a timing scam an abuse of an office? Does acting on omd’s behalf change 
> >> this?
> > 
> > Thinking about this more, all the info on auction end timing was public,
> > and my rapid transfer after the auction was just to get it done, offered
> > no particular game advantage compared to someone who's not the Registrar.
> > 
> > Out of a gross abundance of caution/fair play, I'm not going to bid on the 
> > land auctions that end in a couple hours tho I was thinking of it - that's
> > the only place I might have an advantage (e.g. if I didn't get others'
> > zombies to them in time for them to use the money to bid on land).  I'm
> > going to be AFK between now and when the land auction ends so it would be
> > unfair for me to use those funds I just got as I can't do the same for
> > other zombie auction winners.
> > 
> > Can't think of any other place the quick timing helps me...?
> > 
> > 
> 
>

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] Zombie auction results

[Gaelan Steele]

Sorry, I was wrong here. I assumed auctions worked like Agoran decisions in 
that the auction ended when it was resolved, and you were just obligated to end 
it after a certain period of time. You're right, and I should make sure that I 
understand the rules better when I talk about these things. 

Gaelan 

> On Apr 9, 2018, at 11:16 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mon, 9 Apr 2018, Gaelan Steele wrote:
>> Is a timing scam an abuse of an office? Does acting on omd’s behalf change 
>> this?
> 
> Thinking about this more, all the info on auction end timing was public,
> and my rapid transfer after the auction was just to get it done, offered
> no particular game advantage compared to someone who's not the Registrar.
> 
> Out of a gross abundance of caution/fair play, I'm not going to bid on the 
> land auctions that end in a couple hours tho I was thinking of it - that's
> the only place I might have an advantage (e.g. if I didn't get others'
> zombies to them in time for them to use the money to bid on land).  I'm
> going to be AFK between now and when the land auction ends so it would be
> unfair for me to use those funds I just got as I can't do the same for
> other zombie auction winners.
> 
> Can't think of any other place the quick timing helps me...?
> 
> 

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] Zombie auction results

[Kerim Aydin]

That could extend the auctions indefinitely.

Yes, I had control a week ago. Everyone could see the date, and had a week to
arrange their schedules if they wanted to snipe the auction end.  There's
another one coming up for land - is that one unfair?  you all know about it.

The timing thing is true for everything - sometimes last minute votes matter
but we don't penalize the assessor for example, because the timing info is
available in plenty of time for people to plan around it.

On Mon, 9 Apr 2018, Gaelan Steele wrote:
> I was wondering whether the sniping could be construed as an abuse of office. 
> I think there's an argument to be made that it is, because holding the office 
> allowed you to have an advantage over everyone else in the auction (others 
> can attempt snipes, but you have full control over when the auction ends so 
> you could always snipe them back). Whether this breaks the rules or not, I 
> think we should add a rule to automatically extend actions after a bid. 
> 
> Gaelan 
> 
> > On Apr 9, 2018, at 11:01 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > As far as I can tell it's all straightforward and legal.  I mean, I didn't
> > bid until right before the end of the auction but nothing "underhanded"
> > other than auction-sniping.
> > 
> > My reading of the rules is that I can do this on behalf of omd and it 
> > doesn't
> > affect anything, but the act-on-behalf rules might have some holes (but
> > AFAICT, nothing here against the intent of those rules).
> > 
> >> On Mon, 9 Apr 2018, Gaelan Steele wrote:
> >> Is a timing scam an abuse of an office? Does acting on omd’s behalf change 
> >> this?
> >> 
> >> Gaelan
> >> 
> >>> On Apr 9, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> The zombie auction has ended - here are the results.  When each winning
> >>> bid is paid, I'll flip the appropriate master switch.
> >>> 
> >>> WINNER  BIDLOT
> >>> omd 21 pokes
> >>> G.  21 o
> >>> V.J. Rada   12 Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> >>> ATMunn  10 nichdel
> >>> Corona   5 Quazie
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> ALL BIDS IN ORDER PLACED
> >>> (x indicates cancelled by later bid)
> >>> 
> >>> x1G. 2 Apr 2018 10:46:46 -0700 
> >>> x1Kenyon 2 Apr 2018 11:14:39 -0700
> >>> x1Corona 2 Apr 2018 20:41:24 +0200
> >>> x1Gaelan 2 Apr 2018 11:51:57 -0700
> >>> x2ATMunn 3 Apr 2018 09:03:46 -0400
> >>> x1Kenyon 3 Apr 2018 16:23:58 -0700
> >>> x1Kenyon 3 Apr 2018 16:23:58 -0700
> >>> 4Aris   5 Apr 2018 07:34:44 +
> >>> 4Gaelan 5 Apr 2018 07:40:00 -0700
> >>> x3G. 5 Apr 2018 19:41:16 -0700 
> >>> 3Kenyon 5 Apr 2018 22:57:19 -0700
> >>> x15   V.J. Rada  7 Apr 2018 15:40:24 +1000
> >>> x30   V.J. Rada  7 Apr 2018 15:42:46 +1000
> >>> 10   ATMunn 7 Apr 2018 12:33:55 -0400
> >>> 5Corona 7 Apr 2018 20:52:09 +0200
> >>> 12   V.J. Rada  9 Apr 2018 08:57:06 +1000
> >>> 21   omd9 Apr 2018 10:26:41 -0700 
> >>> 21   G. 9 Apr 2018 10:26:41 -0700 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> 
> 
>

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] Zombie auction results

[Kerim Aydin]

On Mon, 9 Apr 2018, Gaelan Steele wrote:
> Is a timing scam an abuse of an office? Does acting on omd’s behalf change 
> this?

Thinking about this more, all the info on auction end timing was public,
and my rapid transfer after the auction was just to get it done, offered
no particular game advantage compared to someone who's not the Registrar.

Out of a gross abundance of caution/fair play, I'm not going to bid on the 
land auctions that end in a couple hours tho I was thinking of it - that's
the only place I might have an advantage (e.g. if I didn't get others'
zombies to them in time for them to use the money to bid on land).  I'm
going to be AFK between now and when the land auction ends so it would be
unfair for me to use those funds I just got as I can't do the same for
other zombie auction winners.

Can't think of any other place the quick timing helps me...?

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] Zombie auction results

[Gaelan Steele]

I was wondering whether the sniping could be construed as an abuse of office. I 
think there's an argument to be made that it is, because holding the office 
allowed you to have an advantage over everyone else in the auction (others can 
attempt snipes, but you have full control over when the auction ends so you 
could always snipe them back). Whether this breaks the rules or not, I think we 
should add a rule to automatically extend actions after a bid. 

Gaelan 

> On Apr 9, 2018, at 11:01 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I can tell it's all straightforward and legal.  I mean, I didn't
> bid until right before the end of the auction but nothing "underhanded"
> other than auction-sniping.
> 
> My reading of the rules is that I can do this on behalf of omd and it doesn't
> affect anything, but the act-on-behalf rules might have some holes (but
> AFAICT, nothing here against the intent of those rules).
> 
>> On Mon, 9 Apr 2018, Gaelan Steele wrote:
>> Is a timing scam an abuse of an office? Does acting on omd’s behalf change 
>> this?
>> 
>> Gaelan
>> 
>>> On Apr 9, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The zombie auction has ended - here are the results.  When each winning
>>> bid is paid, I'll flip the appropriate master switch.
>>> 
>>> WINNER  BIDLOT
>>> omd 21 pokes
>>> G.  21 o
>>> V.J. Rada   12 Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
>>> ATMunn  10 nichdel
>>> Corona   5 Quazie
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ALL BIDS IN ORDER PLACED
>>> (x indicates cancelled by later bid)
>>> 
>>> x1G. 2 Apr 2018 10:46:46 -0700 
>>> x1Kenyon 2 Apr 2018 11:14:39 -0700
>>> x1Corona 2 Apr 2018 20:41:24 +0200
>>> x1Gaelan 2 Apr 2018 11:51:57 -0700
>>> x2ATMunn 3 Apr 2018 09:03:46 -0400
>>> x1Kenyon 3 Apr 2018 16:23:58 -0700
>>> x1Kenyon 3 Apr 2018 16:23:58 -0700
>>> 4Aris   5 Apr 2018 07:34:44 +
>>> 4Gaelan 5 Apr 2018 07:40:00 -0700
>>> x3G. 5 Apr 2018 19:41:16 -0700 
>>> 3Kenyon 5 Apr 2018 22:57:19 -0700
>>> x15   V.J. Rada  7 Apr 2018 15:40:24 +1000
>>> x30   V.J. Rada  7 Apr 2018 15:42:46 +1000
>>> 10   ATMunn 7 Apr 2018 12:33:55 -0400
>>> 5Corona 7 Apr 2018 20:52:09 +0200
>>> 12   V.J. Rada  9 Apr 2018 08:57:06 +1000
>>> 21   omd9 Apr 2018 10:26:41 -0700 
>>> 21   G. 9 Apr 2018 10:26:41 -0700 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 

Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] Zombie auction results

[Kerim Aydin]

As far as I can tell it's all straightforward and legal.  I mean, I didn't
bid until right before the end of the auction but nothing "underhanded"
other than auction-sniping.

My reading of the rules is that I can do this on behalf of omd and it doesn't
affect anything, but the act-on-behalf rules might have some holes (but
AFAICT, nothing here against the intent of those rules).

On Mon, 9 Apr 2018, Gaelan Steele wrote:
> Is a timing scam an abuse of an office? Does acting on omd’s behalf change 
> this?
> 
> Gaelan
> 
> > On Apr 9, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > The zombie auction has ended - here are the results.  When each winning
> > bid is paid, I'll flip the appropriate master switch.
> > 
> > WINNER  BIDLOT
> > omd 21 pokes
> > G.  21 o
> > V.J. Rada   12 Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> > ATMunn  10 nichdel
> > Corona   5 Quazie
> > 
> > 
> > ALL BIDS IN ORDER PLACED
> > (x indicates cancelled by later bid)
> > 
> > x1G. 2 Apr 2018 10:46:46 -0700 
> > x1Kenyon 2 Apr 2018 11:14:39 -0700
> > x1Corona 2 Apr 2018 20:41:24 +0200
> > x1Gaelan 2 Apr 2018 11:51:57 -0700
> > x2ATMunn 3 Apr 2018 09:03:46 -0400
> > x1Kenyon 3 Apr 2018 16:23:58 -0700
> > x1Kenyon 3 Apr 2018 16:23:58 -0700
> > 4Aris   5 Apr 2018 07:34:44 +
> > 4Gaelan 5 Apr 2018 07:40:00 -0700
> > x3G. 5 Apr 2018 19:41:16 -0700 
> > 3Kenyon 5 Apr 2018 22:57:19 -0700
> > x15   V.J. Rada  7 Apr 2018 15:40:24 +1000
> > x30   V.J. Rada  7 Apr 2018 15:42:46 +1000
> > 10   ATMunn 7 Apr 2018 12:33:55 -0400
> > 5Corona 7 Apr 2018 20:52:09 +0200
> > 12   V.J. Rada  9 Apr 2018 08:57:06 +1000
> > 21   omd9 Apr 2018 10:26:41 -0700 
> > 21   G. 9 Apr 2018 10:26:41 -0700 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
>

DIS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] Zombie auction results

[Gaelan Steele]

Is a timing scam an abuse of an office? Does acting on omd’s behalf change this?

Gaelan

> On Apr 9, 2018, at 10:52 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> The zombie auction has ended - here are the results.  When each winning
> bid is paid, I'll flip the appropriate master switch.
> 
> WINNER  BIDLOT
> omd 21 pokes
> G.  21 o
> V.J. Rada   12 Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> ATMunn  10 nichdel
> Corona   5 Quazie
> 
> 
> ALL BIDS IN ORDER PLACED
> (x indicates cancelled by later bid)
> 
> x1G. 2 Apr 2018 10:46:46 -0700 
> x1Kenyon 2 Apr 2018 11:14:39 -0700
> x1Corona 2 Apr 2018 20:41:24 +0200
> x1Gaelan 2 Apr 2018 11:51:57 -0700
> x2ATMunn 3 Apr 2018 09:03:46 -0400
> x1Kenyon 3 Apr 2018 16:23:58 -0700
> x1Kenyon 3 Apr 2018 16:23:58 -0700
> 4Aris   5 Apr 2018 07:34:44 +
> 4Gaelan 5 Apr 2018 07:40:00 -0700
> x3G. 5 Apr 2018 19:41:16 -0700 
> 3Kenyon 5 Apr 2018 22:57:19 -0700
> x15   V.J. Rada  7 Apr 2018 15:40:24 +1000
> x30   V.J. Rada  7 Apr 2018 15:42:46 +1000
> 10   ATMunn 7 Apr 2018 12:33:55 -0400
> 5Corona 7 Apr 2018 20:52:09 +0200
> 12   V.J. Rada  9 Apr 2018 08:57:06 +1000
> 21   omd9 Apr 2018 10:26:41 -0700 
> 21   G. 9 Apr 2018 10:26:41 -0700 
> 
> 
>