Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Arbitor] CFJ 3992 assigned to Secretsnail9
On 9/12/22 23:18, secretsnail9 via agora-discussion wrote: > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 12, 2022, at 10:14 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion >> wrote: >> >> On 9/12/22 22:31, secretsnail9 via agora-discussion wrote: On Sep 12, 2022, at 9:12 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion wrote: On 9/12/22 20:31, secretsnail9 via agora-business wrote: > There's also the clause in Rule 2630 "The Administrative State": "An > officer SHALL NOT violate eir office's administrative regulations in the > discharge of eir office." It's not too relevant to this case, but there > may > be an issue when violating a regulation, as violations are a regulated > action that can be performed only using the methods explicitly specified > in > the Rules (not regulations) for performing the given action. Rule 2545 > (Auctions) handles this nicely: "SHALL NOT violate requirements that > auction's method that are clearly intended to be punishable as rules > violations", the typo aside. SHALL (NOT)s do not create regulated actions anymore. -- Jason Cobb Arbitor, Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason >>> But breaking a SHALL (NOT) is a regulated action, a violation, yes? After >>> all, if it wasn't, we would be proscribing an unregulated action. I'm >>> confused what you mean. >>> >>> -- >>> secretsnail >> >> No. It's perfectly fine to proscribe unregulated actions. For instance, >> lying to the public forum is both unregulated and proscribed, and >> pledges can proscribe non-game actions. >> >> -- >> Jason Cobb >> >> Arbitor, Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason >> > But > > The Rules SHALL NOT be > interpreted so as to proscribe unregulated actions. > > I don't get it. > -- > secretsnail Ugh I just completely forgot about that clause. Nevertheless, it doesn't make all proscribed actions regulated. -- Jason Cobb Arbitor, Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Arbitor] CFJ 3992 assigned to Secretsnail9
Sent from my iPhone > On Sep 12, 2022, at 10:14 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion > wrote: > > On 9/12/22 22:31, secretsnail9 via agora-discussion wrote: >>> On Sep 12, 2022, at 9:12 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion >>> wrote: >>> On 9/12/22 20:31, secretsnail9 via agora-business wrote: There's also the clause in Rule 2630 "The Administrative State": "An officer SHALL NOT violate eir office's administrative regulations in the discharge of eir office." It's not too relevant to this case, but there may be an issue when violating a regulation, as violations are a regulated action that can be performed only using the methods explicitly specified in the Rules (not regulations) for performing the given action. Rule 2545 (Auctions) handles this nicely: "SHALL NOT violate requirements that auction's method that are clearly intended to be punishable as rules violations", the typo aside. >>> >>> SHALL (NOT)s do not create regulated actions anymore. >>> >>> -- >>> Jason Cobb >>> >>> Arbitor, Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason >>> >> But breaking a SHALL (NOT) is a regulated action, a violation, yes? After >> all, if it wasn't, we would be proscribing an unregulated action. I'm >> confused what you mean. >> >> -- >> secretsnail > > > No. It's perfectly fine to proscribe unregulated actions. For instance, > lying to the public forum is both unregulated and proscribed, and > pledges can proscribe non-game actions. > > -- > Jason Cobb > > Arbitor, Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason > But The Rules SHALL NOT be interpreted so as to proscribe unregulated actions. I don't get it. -- secretsnail
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Arbitor] CFJ 3992 assigned to Secretsnail9
On 9/12/22 22:31, secretsnail9 via agora-discussion wrote: > On Sep 12, 2022, at 9:12 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion > wrote: >> On 9/12/22 20:31, secretsnail9 via agora-business wrote: >>> There's also the clause in Rule 2630 "The Administrative State": "An >>> officer SHALL NOT violate eir office's administrative regulations in the >>> discharge of eir office." It's not too relevant to this case, but there may >>> be an issue when violating a regulation, as violations are a regulated >>> action that can be performed only using the methods explicitly specified in >>> the Rules (not regulations) for performing the given action. Rule 2545 >>> (Auctions) handles this nicely: "SHALL NOT violate requirements that >>> auction's method that are clearly intended to be punishable as rules >>> violations", the typo aside. >> >> SHALL (NOT)s do not create regulated actions anymore. >> >> -- >> Jason Cobb >> >> Arbitor, Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason >> > But breaking a SHALL (NOT) is a regulated action, a violation, yes? After > all, if it wasn't, we would be proscribing an unregulated action. I'm > confused what you mean. > > -- > secretsnail No. It's perfectly fine to proscribe unregulated actions. For instance, lying to the public forum is both unregulated and proscribed, and pledges can proscribe non-game actions. -- Jason Cobb Arbitor, Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: [Arbitor] CFJ 3992 assigned to Secretsnail9
On Sep 12, 2022, at 9:12 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-discussion wrote: > > On 9/12/22 20:31, secretsnail9 via agora-business wrote: >> There's also the clause in Rule 2630 "The Administrative State": "An >> officer SHALL NOT violate eir office's administrative regulations in the >> discharge of eir office." It's not too relevant to this case, but there may >> be an issue when violating a regulation, as violations are a regulated >> action that can be performed only using the methods explicitly specified in >> the Rules (not regulations) for performing the given action. Rule 2545 >> (Auctions) handles this nicely: "SHALL NOT violate requirements that >> auction's method that are clearly intended to be punishable as rules >> violations", the typo aside. > > > SHALL (NOT)s do not create regulated actions anymore. > > -- > Jason Cobb > > Arbitor, Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason > But breaking a SHALL (NOT) is a regulated action, a violation, yes? After all, if it wasn't, we would be proscribing an unregulated action. I'm confused what you mean. -- secretsnail
