Re: DIS: proto-proto: zombie reform

[Kerim Aydin]

That's a really good point.  If I go further along this route I'll call
them golems.

But working on it earlier I'm going to stick with zombies very similar
to as they are now - going to try finish a proposal version that merges 
your earlier proto auction fixes with some other bugfixes in the next day
or so.

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018, Aris Merchant wrote:
> Aren't these more like golems now than zombies? I'm not too familiar
> with the relevant traditions of nomenclature, although I know we've
> had golems at some point in the past, but it seems to me that an
> important characteristic of zombies is that they used to be "alive".
> 
> Also could we make them assets? They are property, and at this point
> are purely synthetic entities.
> 
> -Aris
> 
> On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 10:37 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> >
> >
> > patching auctions, but think there should be a deeper change
> > because zombies are pretty powerful and unchecked right now.
> > Also, zombies from actual natural persons has a bit of baggage.
> >
> > But the bidding's pretty cool, so Outline for discussion.  This
> > nerfs them a bit but hopefully not so much that they're not worth
> > a bunch.
> >
> >   1.  Zombies are artificial persons named in the rules, not
> >   natural persons.  Total fixed at ~6.
> >
> >   2.  No one can own more than one zombie.
> >
> >   3.  zombies revert to Agora after (time), suggesting 60-90 days
> >   from end of auction.
> >
> >   4.  zombies CANNOT register/deregister, object/support, or
> >   enter contracts.  Everything else like persons.
> >
> >   5.  Registrar is encouraged to time auctions so as to conduct
> >   single auctions for multiple zombies (multiple lots).
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: DIS: proto-proto: zombie reform

[Aris Merchant]

Aren't these more like golems now than zombies? I'm not too familiar
with the relevant traditions of nomenclature, although I know we've
had golems at some point in the past, but it seems to me that an
important characteristic of zombies is that they used to be "alive".

Also could we make them assets? They are property, and at this point
are purely synthetic entities.

-Aris

On Thu, Feb 22, 2018 at 10:37 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
>
>
> patching auctions, but think there should be a deeper change
> because zombies are pretty powerful and unchecked right now.
> Also, zombies from actual natural persons has a bit of baggage.
>
> But the bidding's pretty cool, so Outline for discussion.  This
> nerfs them a bit but hopefully not so much that they're not worth
> a bunch.
>
>   1.  Zombies are artificial persons named in the rules, not
>   natural persons.  Total fixed at ~6.
>
>   2.  No one can own more than one zombie.
>
>   3.  zombies revert to Agora after (time), suggesting 60-90 days
>   from end of auction.
>
>   4.  zombies CANNOT register/deregister, object/support, or
>   enter contracts.  Everything else like persons.
>
>   5.  Registrar is encouraged to time auctions so as to conduct
>   single auctions for multiple zombies (multiple lots).
>
>
>

Re: DIS: proto-proto: zombie reform

[Kerim Aydin]

haha, when I said the 'person' couldn't register or deregister I took it for
granted that default state was "Registered" for em - of course it isn't -
yeah a non-player person that couldn't register is indeed nearly completely
useless...

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018, Madeline wrote:
> Okay, you said artificial person rather than artificial player. Guess that was
> just a slip of the fingers? And that's a good point about being able to do
> anytime, I definitely misinterpreted there. Perhaps changing it to
> one-per-month would be a better idea!
> 
> On 2018-02-23 12:03, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > Where does it say one action per month?  The way I'm reading it, the second
> > paragraph of R2532 allows the owner to do anything anytime on behalf of the
> > zombie?  The scaring is once a month but that's a price of ownership not
> > a limit on non-scaring actions, I think.
> > 
> > That said, I just noticed that zombies are nearly worthless anyway but in
> > a different way, so maybe it doesn't matter :).  (not telling the reason
> > right this minute!)
> > 
> > I hear you on the "artificial is too artificial to be a person" part.
> > But I don't mean making them non-players, I mean making them permanent
> > (artificial) players.
> > 
> > On Fri, 23 Feb 2018, Madeline wrote:
> > > I mean in the current rules they can only perform one action a month, so I
> > > don't think they're that overpowered? Making them non-players seems like
> > > it'd
> > > make them entirely useless. And "artificial person" seems like it's
> > > distorting
> > > the definition of person that we've kind of agreed not to question too
> > > hard?
> > > 
> > > On 2018-02-23 05:37, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > > > patching auctions, but think there should be a deeper change
> > > > because zombies are pretty powerful and unchecked right now.
> > > > Also, zombies from actual natural persons has a bit of baggage.
> > > > 
> > > > But the bidding's pretty cool, so Outline for discussion.  This
> > > > nerfs them a bit but hopefully not so much that they're not worth
> > > > a bunch.
> > > > 
> > > > 1.  Zombies are artificial persons named in the rules, not
> > > > natural persons.  Total fixed at ~6.
> > > > 
> > > > 2.  No one can own more than one zombie.
> > > > 
> > > > 3.  zombies revert to Agora after (time), suggesting 60-90 days
> > > > from end of auction.
> > > > 
> > > > 4.  zombies CANNOT register/deregister, object/support, or
> > > > enter contracts.  Everything else like persons.
> > > > 
> > > > 5.  Registrar is encouraged to time auctions so as to conduct
> > > > single auctions for multiple zombies (multiple lots).
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
>

Re: DIS: proto-proto: zombie reform

[Madeline]

Okay, you said artificial person rather than artificial player. Guess 
that was just a slip of the fingers? And that's a good point about being 
able to do anytime, I definitely misinterpreted there. Perhaps changing 
it to one-per-month would be a better idea!


On 2018-02-23 12:03, Kerim Aydin wrote:

Where does it say one action per month?  The way I'm reading it, the second
paragraph of R2532 allows the owner to do anything anytime on behalf of the
zombie?  The scaring is once a month but that's a price of ownership not
a limit on non-scaring actions, I think.

That said, I just noticed that zombies are nearly worthless anyway but in
a different way, so maybe it doesn't matter :).  (not telling the reason
right this minute!)

I hear you on the "artificial is too artificial to be a person" part.
But I don't mean making them non-players, I mean making them permanent
(artificial) players.

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018, Madeline wrote:

I mean in the current rules they can only perform one action a month, so I
don't think they're that overpowered? Making them non-players seems like it'd
make them entirely useless. And "artificial person" seems like it's distorting
the definition of person that we've kind of agreed not to question too hard?

On 2018-02-23 05:37, Kerim Aydin wrote:

patching auctions, but think there should be a deeper change
because zombies are pretty powerful and unchecked right now.
Also, zombies from actual natural persons has a bit of baggage.

But the bidding's pretty cool, so Outline for discussion.  This
nerfs them a bit but hopefully not so much that they're not worth
a bunch.

1.  Zombies are artificial persons named in the rules, not
natural persons.  Total fixed at ~6.

2.  No one can own more than one zombie.

3.  zombies revert to Agora after (time), suggesting 60-90 days
from end of auction.

4.  zombies CANNOT register/deregister, object/support, or
enter contracts.  Everything else like persons.

5.  Registrar is encouraged to time auctions so as to conduct
single auctions for multiple zombies (multiple lots).

Re: DIS: proto-proto: zombie reform

[Kerim Aydin]

Where does it say one action per month?  The way I'm reading it, the second
paragraph of R2532 allows the owner to do anything anytime on behalf of the
zombie?  The scaring is once a month but that's a price of ownership not
a limit on non-scaring actions, I think.

That said, I just noticed that zombies are nearly worthless anyway but in
a different way, so maybe it doesn't matter :).  (not telling the reason
right this minute!)

I hear you on the "artificial is too artificial to be a person" part.
But I don't mean making them non-players, I mean making them permanent
(artificial) players.

On Fri, 23 Feb 2018, Madeline wrote:
> I mean in the current rules they can only perform one action a month, so I
> don't think they're that overpowered? Making them non-players seems like it'd
> make them entirely useless. And "artificial person" seems like it's distorting
> the definition of person that we've kind of agreed not to question too hard?
> 
> On 2018-02-23 05:37, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > 
> > patching auctions, but think there should be a deeper change
> > because zombies are pretty powerful and unchecked right now.
> > Also, zombies from actual natural persons has a bit of baggage.
> > 
> > But the bidding's pretty cool, so Outline for discussion.  This
> > nerfs them a bit but hopefully not so much that they're not worth
> > a bunch.
> > 
> >1.  Zombies are artificial persons named in the rules, not
> >natural persons.  Total fixed at ~6.
> > 
> >2.  No one can own more than one zombie.
> > 
> >3.  zombies revert to Agora after (time), suggesting 60-90 days
> >from end of auction.
> > 
> >4.  zombies CANNOT register/deregister, object/support, or
> >enter contracts.  Everything else like persons.
> > 
> >5.  Registrar is encouraged to time auctions so as to conduct
> >single auctions for multiple zombies (multiple lots).
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 

Re: DIS: proto-proto: zombie reform

[Madeline]

I mean in the current rules they can only perform one action a month, so 
I don't think they're that overpowered? Making them non-players seems 
like it'd make them entirely useless. And "artificial person" seems like 
it's distorting the definition of person that we've kind of agreed not 
to question too hard?


On 2018-02-23 05:37, Kerim Aydin wrote:


patching auctions, but think there should be a deeper change
because zombies are pretty powerful and unchecked right now.
Also, zombies from actual natural persons has a bit of baggage.

But the bidding's pretty cool, so Outline for discussion.  This
nerfs them a bit but hopefully not so much that they're not worth
a bunch.

   1.  Zombies are artificial persons named in the rules, not
   natural persons.  Total fixed at ~6.

   2.  No one can own more than one zombie.

   3.  zombies revert to Agora after (time), suggesting 60-90 days
   from end of auction.

   4.  zombies CANNOT register/deregister, object/support, or
   enter contracts.  Everything else like persons.

   5.  Registrar is encouraged to time auctions so as to conduct
   single auctions for multiple zombies (multiple lots).