Re: [akka-user][deprecated] Re: [akka-user] Announcing discuss.akka.io!

[Alan Burlison]

On 17/03/18 00:10, Justin du coeur wrote:


As a result, I'm on the fence about getting involved with the new Akka and
Play forums.  I may go for it -- if the volume remains at the level of the
mailing lists, it won't be too bad.  But I'd be a lot less reluctant
(possibly eager, even) if Discourse would fix the damned mailing list mode
to respect the other settings.  I'm surprised and disappointed that they
haven't prioritized this...


I think you don't have to look any further than Jeff Atwood's opinion of 
email and the people that use it to figure why it's still so broken 
despite all the requests over the years:


https://blog.codinghorror.com/is-email-efail/

I don't know if they have fixed it, but it always used to be the case 
that you couldn't start new "topics" via email and you had to log in to 
the Discourse BUI in order to do so, so the email functionality was 
basically useless and you were forced to use the BUI.


--
Alan Burlison
--

--
*
** New discussion forum: https://discuss.akka.io/ replacing akka-user 
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** This group will soon be put into read-only mode, and replaced by 
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** More details: https://akka.io/blog/news/2018/03/13/discuss.akka.io-announced
*


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Re: [akka-user][deprecated] Re: [akka-user] Announcing discuss.akka.io!

[Justin du coeur]

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 7:17 AM, Johan Andrén 
wrote:

> Sorry to hear that you dislike Discuss so much you won't be coming along
> there Alan.
>

I gotta say -- Alan's not alone in these concerns.  I'm pretty active on
both Scala-Contributors and Scala-Users, and while I put up with the
mailing list mode for them, I hate it with a burning passion.  On the one
hand, it's necessary (I've demonstrated experimentally that I don't
actually follow what's going on without it), but it's such an uncritical
firehose as to be borderline disease-worse-than-the-cure.

As a result, I'm on the fence about getting involved with the new Akka and
Play forums.  I may go for it -- if the volume remains at the level of the
mailing lists, it won't be too bad.  But I'd be a lot less reluctant
(possibly eager, even) if Discourse would fix the damned mailing list mode
to respect the other settings.  I'm surprised and disappointed that they
haven't prioritized this...

-- 
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** New discussion forum: https://discuss.akka.io/ replacing akka-user 
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** This group will soon be put into read-only mode, and replaced by 
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** More details: https://akka.io/blog/news/2018/03/13/discuss.akka.io-announced
*
>> 
>>  Read the docs: http://akka.io/docs/
>>  Check the FAQ: 
>> http://doc.akka.io/docs/akka/current/additional/faq.html
>>  Search the archives: https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user
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Re: [akka-user][deprecated] Re: [akka-user] Announcing discuss.akka.io!

[Alan Burlison]

On 16/03/18 21:56, Patrik Nordwall wrote:


You can setup email notifications as described in
https://discuss.lightbend.com/t/how-to-use-the-discuss-forum-as-a-mailing-list/61
If I'm understanding the warning at the bottom of that page, you'll get 
emails for *all* categories in Discourse, not just Akka, is that correct?


As I read it, the advice on that page is "Don't use the mailing list 
functionality" so I'm a bit surprised to see it being recommended here.


--
Alan Burlison
--

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Re: [akka-user][deprecated] Re: [akka-user] Announcing discuss.akka.io!

[Eric Swenson]

Thanks, Patrick. Exactly what I needed. -- Eric

 

From: <akka-user@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Patrik Nordwall 
<patrik.nordw...@gmail.com>
Reply-To: <akka-user@googlegroups.com>
Date: Friday, March 16, 2018 at 14:57
To: <akka-user@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [akka-user][deprecated] Re: [akka-user] Announcing discuss.akka.io!

 

Hi Eric,

You can setup email notifications as described in 
https://discuss.lightbend.com/t/how-to-use-the-discuss-forum-as-a-mailing-list/61

/Patrik

fre 16 mars 2018 kl. 22:01 skrev Eric Swenson <e...@swenson.org>:

Konrad,

Will new topics continue to be pushed to the mailing list as they are published 
on the discuss.akka.io web site?  I have avidly followed the mailing list and 
use it to learn of new developments and read up on topics of interest to me. I 
relied on the "push" nature of the mailing list to let me know topics of 
interest. Having to check a web site (and remembering to do so) means, for me, 
that I would no longer be able to keep up-to-date with akka developments. It 
just requires too much effort to "follow" changes in a web site.  

If the mailing list will remain as a means of pushing notifications of all the 
threads on discuss.akka.io, and the only change is that we cannot reply to the 
mailing list, I'm perfectly happy with that. As long as I can click on a link 
on a mailing list digest entry and end up at the right place on discuss.akka.io 
so that I can contribute and/or read the whole discussion, that's great.

Thanks. -- Eric

-- 
*
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** This group will soon be put into read-only mode, and replaced by 
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** More details: https://akka.io/blog/news/2018/03/13/discuss.akka.io-announced
*
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Read the docs: http://akka.io/docs/
>>>>>>>>>> Check the FAQ: 
>>>>>>>>>> http://doc.akka.io/docs/akka/current/additional/faq.html
>>>>>>>>>> Search the archives: https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user
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*
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Read the docs: http://akka.io/docs/
>>>>>>>>>> Check the FAQ: 
>>>>>>>>>> http://doc.akka.io/docs/akka/current/additional/faq.html
>>>>>>>>>> Search the archives: https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user
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** This group will soon be put into read-only mode, and replaced by 
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** More details: https://akka.io/blog/news/2018/03/13/discuss.akka.io-announced
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>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>  Read the docs: http://akka.io/docs/
>>>>>>>>>>  Check the FAQ: 
>>>>>>>>>> http://doc.akka.io/docs/akka/current/additional/faq.html
>>>>>>>>>>  Search the archives: https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user
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Re: [akka-user][deprecated] Re: [akka-user] Announcing discuss.akka.io!

[Patrik Nordwall]

Hi Eric,

You can setup email notifications as described in
https://discuss.lightbend.com/t/how-to-use-the-discuss-forum-as-a-mailing-list/61

/Patrik
fre 16 mars 2018 kl. 22:01 skrev Eric Swenson :

> Konrad,
>
> Will new topics continue to be pushed to the mailing list as they are
> published on the discuss.akka.io web site?  I have avidly followed the
> mailing list and use it to learn of new developments and read up on topics
> of interest to me. I relied on the "push" nature of the mailing list to let
> me know topics of interest. Having to check a web site (and remembering to
> do so) means, for me, that I would no longer be able to keep up-to-date
> with akka developments. It just requires too much effort to "follow"
> changes in a web site.
>
> If the mailing list will remain as a means of pushing notifications of all
> the threads on discuss.akka.io, and the only change is that we cannot
> reply to the mailing list, I'm perfectly happy with that. As long as I can
> click on a link on a mailing list digest entry and end up at the right
> place on discuss.akka.io so that I can contribute and/or read the whole
> discussion, that's great.
>
> Thanks. -- Eric
>
> --
>
> *
> ** New discussion forum: https://discuss.akka.io/ replacing akka-user
> google-group soon.
> ** This group will soon be put into read-only mode, and replaced by
> discuss.akka.io
> ** More details:
> https://akka.io/blog/news/2018/03/13/discuss.akka.io-announced
>
> *
> >>
> >> Read the docs: http://akka.io/docs/
> >> Check the FAQ:
> http://doc.akka.io/docs/akka/current/additional/faq.html
> >> Search the archives: https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user
> ---
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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>

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>> 
>>  Read the docs: http://akka.io/docs/
>>  Check the FAQ: 
>> http://doc.akka.io/docs/akka/current/additional/faq.html
>>  Search the archives: https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user
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Re: [akka-user][deprecated] Re: [akka-user] Announcing discuss.akka.io!

[Eric Swenson]

Konrad,

Will new topics continue to be pushed to the mailing list as they are 
published on the discuss.akka.io web site?  I have avidly followed the 
mailing list and use it to learn of new developments and read up on topics 
of interest to me. I relied on the "push" nature of the mailing list to let 
me know topics of interest. Having to check a web site (and remembering to 
do so) means, for me, that I would no longer be able to keep up-to-date 
with akka developments. It just requires too much effort to "follow" 
changes in a web site.  

If the mailing list will remain as a means of pushing notifications of all 
the threads on discuss.akka.io, and the only change is that we cannot reply 
to the mailing list, I'm perfectly happy with that. As long as I can click 
on a link on a mailing list digest entry and end up at the right place on 
discuss.akka.io so that I can contribute and/or read the whole discussion, 
that's great.

Thanks. -- Eric

-- 
*
** New discussion forum: https://discuss.akka.io/ replacing akka-user 
google-group soon.
** This group will soon be put into read-only mode, and replaced by 
discuss.akka.io
** More details: https://akka.io/blog/news/2018/03/13/discuss.akka.io-announced
*
>> 
>>  Read the docs: http://akka.io/docs/
>>  Check the FAQ: 
>> http://doc.akka.io/docs/akka/current/additional/faq.html
>>  Search the archives: https://groups.google.com/group/akka-user
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Re: [akka-user][deprecated] Re: [akka-user] Announcing discuss.akka.io!

[Alan Burlison]

On 16/03/18 11:17, Johan Andrén wrote:


Sorry to hear that you dislike Discuss so much you won't be coming along
there Alan.


I've tried to use it and thereby over time come to like it, but it's 
vile and I won't use it unless I personally have a specific question 
that I need an answer for - I certainly won't be following the 
discussions the way I do on the email list. I've learned a lot about 
Akka by simply reading the email list traffic but I won't use Discuss 
for that - sorry.



What we have found is that the lack of searching and categories and easy
navigation on the mailing list made users, especially newcomers, ask the
same questions over and over again. We in the core Akka team spend quite
some time moderating and answering questions here and we want a tool where
we (and others in the community ofc) can help as many users as possible
with minimum effort. We think that the categories and tags etc. in discuss
will help us do that. We also hope this will help reduce some of the noise
in the Gitter channels.


I think the 'unsearchable email archives' is a convenient myth and that 
newbies will ask the same questions over and over anyway, irrespective 
of where they ask them. As for categories and tags - that relies on 
people actually using them correctly, and you have no way of ensuring 
that the wider community does. I've been on your end of this situation 
myself and we provided forums but in general technical people hated them 
and wouldn't use them, so they died. And the Discuss developers have 
already said they think email lists are an abomination and won't improve 
Discuss's support for them so the half-hearted and useless support for 
them that's there is not going to get better either.


It will probably reduce your workload but not for the reason you are 
hoping for - if the volume of interaction plummets then sure yes, your 
problem will have gone :-/



In addition to that we also see synergies in bringing the Lagom and Play
communities closer, this may be a bigger gain for those projects as they
are to some extent built on top of Akka but it also brings benefits to the
Akka community in growing it, hopefully leading to more people being able
to help out and answer questions, that may previously have been lurking in
the other two project mailing lists only.


I think you are going to be disappointed - if people don't contribute to 
email lists they are even less likely to do so for forums because it 
takes so much more time to use a clunky web UI to do so.



I don't think this will change your mind, but felt that the picture you
painted was a bit unfair and I wanted to clarify that this was a move
driven by us engineers.


It won't, and as I said I don't expect you'll change your collective 
decision either because you are way too far down the line to do so. 
However I think it's a huge misstep - I've seen no traffic on the 
mailing list demanding you close it down and replace it with Discuss 
(https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/akka-user/discuss$20%7Csort:date 
- oh look, a searchable archive!) but you've done so anyway. The lack of 
discussion (pun intended) doesn't exactly send a positive message to 
your community.


--
Alan Burlison
--

--
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** This group will soon be put into read-only mode, and replaced by 
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** More details: https://akka.io/blog/news/2018/03/13/discuss.akka.io-announced
*


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