Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
Hello Mosbah, The cost of smartfresh treatment here is about 10 euros (12 dollars?) per 330kg bin (700lbs approx.). It feels expensive, especially compared with DPA, which is very cheap. It does a lot more though. By the way, I think the issue with DPA from a European perspective is that when it degrades it forms one or more nitrosamines, which are a group of chemicals many of which are carcinogenic, though some much more-so than others. So the EU is seeking to eliminate all sources of nitrosamines from diets, and therefore DPA is gone. I do remember when DPA was cleaned-up, but its breakdown products will be nitrosamines, regardless of how cleanly it is produced. Con From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] on behalf of Kushad, Mosbah M [kus...@illinois.edu] Sent: 28 April 2014 15:53 To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals If you are asking about diphenylamine (DPA), then it is an antioxidants that blocks the oxidation of alpha farnesene into conjugated trienes in the peel. Conjugated trienes are what causes the apple/pear peel to turn brown from regular or superficial scald. It doesn’t help soft scald or sunscald. In the old days they used to wrap fruits in paper soaked in mineral oil that absorbs the conjugated triene gas. I have only scene this recently being practiced in one place. To minimize superficial scald development, harvest fruits when they are horticulturally mature. Ethoxyquin was removed from the market around the 80’s because it was suspected to cause cancer. However, DPA went through a rigorous cleaning process to remove any impurities that cause cancer. If you are asking about 1-methylecyclopropene (1-MCP), also known as SmartFresh, it is an ethylene action inhibitor. Treated fruits produce ethylene but it does not work, because the sites where ethylene normally attaches itself, to initiate fruit ripening, are occupied by 1-MCP. There is no evidence that 1-MCP causes any harm to human.Some consider 1-MCP as the best thing since CA storage was introduced in the 30’s -40’s. hope this helps, Mosbah Kushad, university of Illinois. Question to Con. What is the cost of using SmartFresh per bushel in your operation? From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Ginda Fisher Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 7:08 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list; Con.Traas; 'Evan B. Milburn'; 'Apple-crop discussion list' Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Can anyone summarize what this chemical is, why and how it is used, and what the risks might be to farmers and consumers from its use? I feel like I walked into the middle of a conversation. Thanks, -- Typed with Swype. Who knows what I meant to say? On April 28, 2014 4:03:51 AM EDT, Con.Traas con.tr...@ul.iemailto:con.tr...@ul.ie wrote: Hello Evan and everybody, Coming from my perspective, where we are now having to cope without DPA for storing Bramley (culinary) apples, I must say that is it proving tricky, but we are managing, through use of 1-MCP combined with more complex (and expensive and risky) storage regimes. So I would say it is technically possible to keep apples without DPA or ethoxyquin, which we also can’t use, but ironically it mitigates against the smaller grower, and in favour of the larger ones (big ag?) who can afford the higher tech gear. It is ironic that scaring people about pesticide residues on fresh foods (especially fruits) actually causes people to eat more processed foods (as though their ingredients do not also get pesticide treatments), as the studies linking better health with fruit consumption are studies conducted with conventionally grown fruits with their pesticide residues (if they are not residue free). In other words, the benefits of eating fruits and vegetables are there in black and white, even if those fruits and vegetables have residues. It is far less healthy to switch to a candy bar from an apple, even if that apple has some residue (so long as that is below permitted levels). However, this is not a message we can send out, so we are left grappling when emails like this from EWG are circulated. The joke of what EWG seems to be doing is producing a dirty dozen or clean fifteen list is that those lists say nothing at all about the risk of a pesticide residue on the particular apple in your fruit-bowl. You could be eating a residue-free fruit from among the “dirty dozen”, or one covered in pesticide from among the “clean fifteen”. Despite the differences in regulations between Europe and the US (and I favour in general the less permissive, more cautious European standards, despite having to work within their restrictions), our agriculture here is constantly increasing in scale, and resembles more and more what would be our stereotyped image of US
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
Hello, Con — Since grilling meat on a barbecue almost always creates some nitrosamines, I’m assuming that outdoor barbecues have also been banned in Europe? :) Dave Rosenberger, Professor Emeritus Dept. of Plant Pathology and Plant-Microbe Biology Cornell’s Hudson Valley Lab, P.O. Box 727, Highland, NY 12528 Office: 845-691-7231Cell: 845-594-3060 http://blogs.cornell.edu/plantpathhvl/ On Apr 29, 2014, at 12:00 PM, Con.Traas con.tr...@ul.iemailto:con.tr...@ul.ie wrote: Hello Mosbah, The cost of smartfresh treatment here is about 10 euros (12 dollars?) per 330kg bin (700lbs approx.). It feels expensive, especially compared with DPA, which is very cheap. It does a lot more though. By the way, I think the issue with DPA from a European perspective is that when it degrades it forms one or more nitrosamines, which are a group of chemicals many of which are carcinogenic, though some much more-so than others. So the EU is seeking to eliminate all sources of nitrosamines from diets, and therefore DPA is gone. I do remember when DPA was cleaned-up, but its breakdown products will be nitrosamines, regardless of how cleanly it is produced. Con From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] on behalf of Kushad, Mosbah M [kus...@illinois.edumailto:kus...@illinois.edu] Sent: 28 April 2014 15:53 To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals If you are asking about diphenylamine (DPA), then it is an antioxidants that blocks the oxidation of alpha farnesene into conjugated trienes in the peel. Conjugated trienes are what causes the apple/pear peel to turn brown from regular or superficial scald. It doesn’t help soft scald or sunscald. In the old days they used to wrap fruits in paper soaked in mineral oil that absorbs the conjugated triene gas. I have only scene this recently being practiced in one place. To minimize superficial scald development, harvest fruits when they are horticulturally mature. Ethoxyquin was removed from the market around the 80’s because it was suspected to cause cancer. However, DPA went through a rigorous cleaning process to remove any impurities that cause cancer. If you are asking about 1-methylecyclopropene (1-MCP), also known as SmartFresh, it is an ethylene action inhibitor. Treated fruits produce ethylene but it does not work, because the sites where ethylene normally attaches itself, to initiate fruit ripening, are occupied by 1-MCP. There is no evidence that 1-MCP causes any harm to human.Some consider 1-MCP as the best thing since CA storage was introduced in the 30’s -40’s. hope this helps, Mosbah Kushad, university of Illinois. Question to Con. What is the cost of using SmartFresh per bushel in your operation? From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Ginda Fisher Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 7:08 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list; Con.Traas; 'Evan B. Milburn'; 'Apple-crop discussion list' Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Can anyone summarize what this chemical is, why and how it is used, and what the risks might be to farmers and consumers from its use? I feel like I walked into the middle of a conversation. Thanks, -- Typed with Swype. Who knows what I meant to say? On April 28, 2014 4:03:51 AM EDT, Con.Traas con.tr...@ul.iemailto:con.tr...@ul.ie wrote: Hello Evan and everybody, Coming from my perspective, where we are now having to cope without DPA for storing Bramley (culinary) apples, I must say that is it proving tricky, but we are managing, through use of 1-MCP combined with more complex (and expensive and risky) storage regimes. So I would say it is technically possible to keep apples without DPA or ethoxyquin, which we also can’t use, but ironically it mitigates against the smaller grower, and in favour of the larger ones (big ag?) who can afford the higher tech gear. It is ironic that scaring people about pesticide residues on fresh foods (especially fruits) actually causes people to eat more processed foods (as though their ingredients do not also get pesticide treatments), as the studies linking better health with fruit consumption are studies conducted with conventionally grown fruits with their pesticide residues (if they are not residue free). In other words, the benefits of eating fruits and vegetables are there in black and white, even if those fruits and vegetables have residues. It is far less healthy to switch to a candy bar from an apple, even if that apple has some residue (so long as that is below permitted levels). However,
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
Excellent point, I've seen kids grasp the concept of plant medicines in an instant. The California Association of Pest Control Advisers (CAPCA) has a program called Plant Doctorhttp://plantdoctor.org/home.html that gets right to the point. /David Eddy From: Kushad, Mosbah M [mailto:kus...@illinois.edu] Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 1:57 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Hi Con: Thanks for the response.. I am aware of the DPA and nitrosamine issue but I did not know that it has/or will be banned in Europe.. Not much we can do about regulations.. One thing I like to share with the group is that the Chinese and I believe other countries in southeast Asia call pesticides Medicine. I am not sure who was the first to coin the term pesticides, but it imply bad things when in fact they are not different from medicine. If you don't buy that then pay attention to those medicines advertisements on TV that tell you about their good effects, but they list a half dozen bad things that can happen when you take them. Ironically, the public never seem to associate medicine with bad things... Mosbah From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Con.Traas Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 11:01 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Hello Mosbah, The cost of smartfresh treatment here is about 10 euros (12 dollars?) per 330kg bin (700lbs approx.). It feels expensive, especially compared with DPA, which is very cheap. It does a lot more though. By the way, I think the issue with DPA from a European perspective is that when it degrades it forms one or more nitrosamines, which are a group of chemicals many of which are carcinogenic, though some much more-so than others. So the EU is seeking to eliminate all sources of nitrosamines from diets, and therefore DPA is gone. I do remember when DPA was cleaned-up, but its breakdown products will be nitrosamines, regardless of how cleanly it is produced. Con From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] on behalf of Kushad, Mosbah M [kus...@illinois.edu] Sent: 28 April 2014 15:53 To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals If you are asking about diphenylamine (DPA), then it is an antioxidants that blocks the oxidation of alpha farnesene into conjugated trienes in the peel. Conjugated trienes are what causes the apple/pear peel to turn brown from regular or superficial scald. It doesn't help soft scald or sunscald. In the old days they used to wrap fruits in paper soaked in mineral oil that absorbs the conjugated triene gas. I have only scene this recently being practiced in one place. To minimize superficial scald development, harvest fruits when they are horticulturally mature. Ethoxyquin was removed from the market around the 80's because it was suspected to cause cancer. However, DPA went through a rigorous cleaning process to remove any impurities that cause cancer. If you are asking about 1-methylecyclopropene (1-MCP), also known as SmartFresh, it is an ethylene action inhibitor. Treated fruits produce ethylene but it does not work, because the sites where ethylene normally attaches itself, to initiate fruit ripening, are occupied by 1-MCP. There is no evidence that 1-MCP causes any harm to human.Some consider 1-MCP as the best thing since CA storage was introduced in the 30's -40's. hope this helps, Mosbah Kushad, university of Illinois. Question to Con. What is the cost of using SmartFresh per bushel in your operation? From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Ginda Fisher Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 7:08 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list; Con.Traas; 'Evan B. Milburn'; 'Apple-crop discussion list' Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Can anyone summarize what this chemical is, why and how it is used, and what the risks might be to farmers and consumers from its use? I feel like I walked into the middle of a conversation. Thanks, -- Typed with Swype. Who knows what I meant to say? On April 28, 2014 4:03:51 AM EDT, Con.Traas con.tr...@ul.iemailto:con.tr...@ul.ie wrote: Hello Evan and everybody, Coming from my perspective, where we are now having to cope without DPA for storing Bramley (culinary) apples, I must say that is it proving tricky, but we are managing, through use of 1-MCP combined with more complex (and expensive and risky) storage regimes. So I would say it is technically possible to keep apples without DPA or ethoxyquin, which we also can't use, but ironically it mitigates against the smaller grower, and in favour of the larger ones (big ag?) who can afford the higher tech
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
Mosbah, Several years ago, now ago we have always used the term preventive medicine instead of pesticides when in conversation with anyone. Almost all people use some kind of preventive medicine. It seems to satisfy their questions. Evan Milburn www.milburnorchards.com On Tuesday, April 29, 2014 4:58 PM, Kushad, Mosbah M kus...@illinois.edu wrote: Hi Con: Thanks for the response.. I am aware of the DPA and nitrosamine issue but I did not know that it has/or will be banned in Europe.. Not much we can do about regulations.. One thing I like to share with the group is that the Chinese and I believe other countries in southeast Asia call pesticides “Medicine”. I am not sure who was the first to coin the term pesticides, but it imply bad things when in fact they are not different from medicine. If you don’t buy that then pay attention to those medicines advertisements on TV that tell you about their good effects, but they list a half dozen bad things that can happen when you take them. Ironically, the public never seem to associate medicine with bad things… Mosbah From:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Con.Traas Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 11:01 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Hello Mosbah, The cost of smartfresh treatment here is about 10 euros (12 dollars?) per 330kg bin (700lbs approx.). It feels expensive, especially compared with DPA, which is very cheap. It does a lot more though. By the way, I think the issue with DPA from a European perspective is that when it degrades it forms one or more nitrosamines, which are a group of chemicals many of which are carcinogenic, though some much more-so than others. So the EU is seeking to eliminate all sources of nitrosamines from diets, and therefore DPA is gone. I do remember when DPA was cleaned-up, but its breakdown products will be nitrosamines, regardless of how cleanly it is produced. Con From:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] on behalf of Kushad, Mosbah M [kus...@illinois.edu] Sent: 28 April 2014 15:53 To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals If you are asking about diphenylamine (DPA), then it is an antioxidants that blocks the oxidation of alpha farnesene into conjugated trienes in the peel. Conjugated trienes are what causes the apple/pear peel to turn brown from regular or superficial scald. It doesn’t help soft scald or sunscald. In the old days they used to wrap fruits in paper soaked in mineral oil that absorbs the conjugated triene gas. I have only scene this recently being practiced in one place. To minimize superficial scald development, harvest fruits when they are horticulturally mature. Ethoxyquin was removed from the market around the 80’s because it was suspected to cause cancer. However, DPA went through a rigorous cleaning process to remove any impurities that cause cancer. If you are asking about 1-methylecyclopropene (1-MCP), also known as SmartFresh, it is an ethylene action inhibitor. Treated fruits produce ethylene but it does not work, because the sites where ethylene normally attaches itself, to initiate fruit ripening, are occupied by 1-MCP. There is no evidence that 1-MCP causes any harm to human. Some consider 1-MCP as the best thing since CA storage was introduced in the 30’s -40’s. hope this helps, Mosbah Kushad, university of Illinois. Question to Con. What is the cost of using SmartFresh per bushel in your operation? From:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Ginda Fisher Sent: Monday, April 28, 2014 7:08 AM To: Apple-crop discussion list; Con.Traas; 'Evan B. Milburn'; 'Apple-crop discussion list' Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Can anyone summarize what this chemical is, why and how it is used, and what the risks might be to farmers and consumers from its use? I feel like I walked into the middle of a conversation. Thanks, -- Typed with Swype. Who knows what I meant to say? On April 28, 2014 4:03:51 AM EDT, Con.Traas con.tr...@ul.ie wrote: Hello Evan and everybody, Coming from my perspective, where we are now having to cope without DPA for storing Bramley (culinary) apples, I must say that is it proving tricky, but we are managing, through use of 1-MCP combined with more complex (and expensive and risky) storage regimes. So I would say it is technically possible to keep apples without DPA or ethoxyquin, which we also can’t use, but ironically it mitigates against the smaller grower, and in favour of the larger ones (big ag?) who can afford the higher tech gear. It is ironic that scaring people about pesticide residues on fresh
