Re: How might I best reply to this?

2003-08-14 Thread Jos Antonio Pineda Figueroa
If you don't mind receiving a suggestion from me, I'd add something:

AS Mr. Orr says, perhaps the best info. available on how webmasters
should make their sites accessible to all and everyone, not all are
willing to change their view just because there is a tiny community
on the web who wants to be able to browse with outdated browsers
(answer I once got when asked a site to re-design to be more
Opera/Arachne/Lynx compatible)

You could give it a personal touch, however, which I believe would
make it nicer and more attractive for a webmaster to redesign his/her
site to enable everyone...
First, try it with Lynx. If you can't access the site (as I am 90% 
sure will hapen) you can then answer them you are blind and are thus 
forced to use an old text only browser for those kind are the only 
ones your text-to-speech program can read from,
so upgrading to a graphical one would leave you unable to get
anything useful from the web unless your spouse/ a friend /someone
helps you at every step...

You could then add that recently you were perfectly capable of reading
everything at their wonderful (be sure to add this!!!) site, but have 
had a lot of troubles recently...

Few WBs. can resist that.





Re: How might I best reply to this?

2003-08-14 Thread Greg Mayman
On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 18:01:59 -0500, Samuel W. Heywood wrote:

 Can anyone here please offer me some suggestions on how I might
 best reply to this webmaster's remarks?

Sure I can. You have a choice of polite acceptance, irony, sarcasm,
threats of violence, and so on, but I doubt that ANY approach would do
any good.

Their reply seems to indicate that they have already done all they
intend to do.

Greg
-- Arachne V1.71;UE01, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/



[A-list] Re: How might I best reply to this?

2003-08-07 Thread J J Young
Hello Sam,

You may recall the run-in I had with a major UK supermarket
and its website a couple of years ago. I spoke to one of 
their guys, who was quite dismissive when I said the site 
was useless to many blind users, but at least he was available, 
which was not the case with the lamentable UK Govt sites 
(a lot of whose problems are due to reliance on the EDS 
company, boo-hiss).

The supermarket got some bad publicity when blind customers
were told to use online ordering instead of the previously
available phone-in system. (There's a growing discrimination
by the BBC and others in favour of SMS messages instead of
email, phone or conventional mail.) A recent radio programme
about the problems faced by the disabled demonstrated the
poor performance of a Virgin company website when visited 
with screen reader software. Sir Richard Branson's team got
on the case in double-quick time.

The supermarket now offers an alternative site to any user
with JavaScript disabled -- I don't know if it's selectable
by the hoi-polloi. They've turned it to their advantage by
getting an award from the RNIB, the UK's major organization
for the blind, yet the site uses a page background colour
that isn't in the Websafe palette (so there's a dithered
pattern in Exploiter).

So, if there's something in it for them, whether prestige
and awards or less complaints and a healthier bottom line
then they might change. But as long as it's cool to use
flashy techniques and NOT CARE about tripping up a proportion
of their visitors there's a problem. From my point of view
I want to use CSS more extensively but the Netscape 4 series
botch the page-display rather than ignoring stuff it doesn't
understand. I could easily ignore Netscape4.x, but I mustn't!
Maybe in five years' time... but there would still be a few
people left to annoy.

As to how to help the webmaster you contacted, you could find
him an award to apply for (or create one yourself!) and point
him to these online tools:

Web Page Purifier
http://www.delorie.com/web/purify.html

Web Page Backward Compatibility Viewer:
http://www.delorie.com/web/wpbcv.html

Lynx Viewer
http://www.delorie.com/web/lynxview.html

Search Engine Simulator
http://www.delorie.com/web/ses.cgi
-- this will show how useless an over-graphic page design
can be. 

Hopefully, he'll find this all very useful and proceed to:
http://www.delorie.com/donations.html

There is also the question of SERVICE. The webmaster is
providing a service to his client and the site's visitors.
If he's only interested in showing off his use of a non-
standards compliant technique the site owner should hire
someone else with a more mature outlook. The designer SHOULD
have his ears wide open to any feedback. 

Best regards,

Jake Young




Re: [A-list] Re: How might I best reply to this?

2003-08-05 Thread Bastiaan Edelman, PA3FFZ
Must be Tesco... I did complain then too.

Although not a customer for they do not deliver to this country, I am a
shareholder and want a decent website from the compagny.

Sometimes feedback helps.. not always :-(

CU, Bastiaan



On Tue, 5 Aug 2003 19:2:38 +, J J Young wrote:

 Hello Sam,

 You may recall the run-in I had with a major UK supermarket
 and its website a couple of years ago. I spoke to one of
 their guys, who was quite dismissive when I said the site
 was useless to many blind users, but at least he was available,
 which was not the case with the lamentable UK Govt sites
 (a lot of whose problems are due to reliance on the EDS
 company, boo-hiss).

 The supermarket got some bad publicity when blind customers
 were told to use online ordering instead of the previously
 available phone-in system. (There's a growing discrimination
 by the BBC and others in favour of SMS messages instead of
 email, phone or conventional mail.) A recent radio programme
 about the problems faced by the disabled demonstrated the
 poor performance of a Virgin company website when visited
 with screen reader software. Sir Richard Branson's team got
 on the case in double-quick time.

 The supermarket now offers an alternative site to any user
 with JavaScript disabled -- I don't know if it's selectable
 by the hoi-polloi. They've turned it to their advantage by
 getting an award from the RNIB, the UK's major organization
 for the blind, yet the site uses a page background colour
 that isn't in the Websafe palette (so there's a dithered
 pattern in Exploiter).

 So, if there's something in it for them, whether prestige
 and awards or less complaints and a healthier bottom line
 then they might change. But as long as it's cool to use
 flashy techniques and NOT CARE about tripping up a proportion
 of their visitors there's a problem. From my point of view
 I want to use CSS more extensively but the Netscape 4 series
 botch the page-display rather than ignoring stuff it doesn't
 understand. I could easily ignore Netscape4.x, but I mustn't!
 Maybe in five years' time... but there would still be a few
 people left to annoy.

 As to how to help the webmaster you contacted, you could find
 him an award to apply for (or create one yourself!) and point
 him to these online tools:

 Web Page Purifier
 http://www.delorie.com/web/purify.html

 Web Page Backward Compatibility Viewer:
 http://www.delorie.com/web/wpbcv.html

 Lynx Viewer
 http://www.delorie.com/web/lynxview.html

 Search Engine Simulator
 http://www.delorie.com/web/ses.cgi
 -- this will show how useless an over-graphic page design
 can be.

 Hopefully, he'll find this all very useful and proceed to:
 http://www.delorie.com/donations.html

 There is also the question of SERVICE. The webmaster is
 providing a service to his client and the site's visitors.
 If he's only interested in showing off his use of a non-
 standards compliant technique the site owner should hire
 someone else with a more mature outlook. The designer SHOULD
 have his ears wide open to any feedback.

 Best regards,

 Jake Young

-
*
Technische Redactie CQ-PA
Bastiaan Edelman, PA3FFZ
*
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Re: How might I best reply to this?

2003-08-04 Thread Rick Orr
Hi Sam,

I would seem the best choice would be to point them to:

http://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/

:-)

later,
rick