Re: Secure shell, JS, Arachne future?

2003-08-15 Thread Bastiaan Edelman, PA3FFZ
You will stay dump by not asking ;-)

Bastiaan

On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 09:37:35 +0930, Greg Mayman wrote:

 On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:11:51 +00, Bastiaan Edelman, PA3FFZ wrote:

 Please would you explain:
 What is telnetGreg Mayman
 Greg Mayman
 Greg Mayman
 There's someone out there who is as dumb as I am, and not afraid to
 admit it!

 Greg Mayman

 -- Arachne V1.71;UE01, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/

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*
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Bastiaan Edelman, PA3FFZ
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Attentie: e-mail adres bij Wanadoo niet meer gebruiken!

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Re: Secure shell, JS, Arachne future?

2003-08-14 Thread david gunnells
Glenn McCorkle wrote:

Perhaps in your area, shell accounts are common-place.

Such is not the case here.

CisNet does not offer this service.

Nor does any other ISP in this area.
(that I have been able to find)
 

Hello Glenn, everyone:

As was mentioned earlier, if you're online already, shell accounts are 
just a few key strokes away!

Here are a few places that offer free shell accounts. Of course, this 
should go w/o saying, read all the requirements/limitation/fine 
print/etc before deciding which one to use! ;)

http://www.freeshell.org/ (may be part of the group L.D. was referring 
to ;))
http://www.publiclinux.net/shells/free.html (from their site:

Public Linux provides a very unique FREE Shell Account that you will 
not find anywhere else. The FREE Shell that we provide is more like a 
mind altering experience of psychedelic groove, expanding your mind over 
the event horizon of the sub-conscious supernova waiting to explode 
within your soul, sending you into a child like state of innocent bliss.

This is all down to the fact that our FREE Shell is in fact a Bespoke 
Vertical Application written in-house by ourselves (Martin Sanders, 
Scott Catalano and Kristen Catalano) called PLIHMS v7.0 (Public Linux In 
House Menu System - Version 7.0). Allowing you to turn on, tune in and 
drop out of your own personal reality for a moment of freaked out funk.)

http://www.nyx.net/
http://www.atshell.com/index.php (appears new signups are temporarily 
disabled)
http://www.spunge.org/mod.php?mod=userpagemenu=14page_id=3#shell
http://www.cyberspace.org/shell.html
http://www.arbornet.org/projects.html

Or perhaps you'd like to peruse through these pages of links to 
providers of free shells (beware, there are some dead links among the 
living):

http://www.ductape.net/~mitja/freeunix.shtml
http://www.freebelt.com/freeshells.html
http://www.leftfoot.com/free-shell.html
Enjoy!

may this reach you smiling!
david



Re: Secure shell, JS, Arachne future?

2003-08-14 Thread Samuel W. Heywood
On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 14:28:26 -0930, Kevin JCJD Symons wrote:

 I did a search for PINE the other day, and only came up with a Linux and
 an OS/2 version. Do you have a site to snatch it from?

You can download some versions for windoze and other operating systems
from a University of Washington web site or FTP site.  Pine is
developed by the University of Washington and it is freeware.  You may
install and run Pine on your local machine.  Some people like to do it
that way.  Most Piners do it on a remote server.  There are several
advantages to doing it their way.  One of the best advantages of running
PINE on a remote Unixish server is that the remote server offers you
very quick and easy access to all of your email accounts by logging on
using any computer connected to the internet, regardless of whatever
operating system it is running and regardless of whatever ISP it is
connected to.

Sam Heywood
--
This mail was written by user of The Arachne Browser:
http://browser.arachne.cz/




Re: Secure shell, JS, Arachne future?

2003-08-14 Thread Kali Mclaughlin
On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 15:39:50 -0500, Sam Ewalt wrote:

 On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 14:04:21 -0400, Roger Turk wrote:

 We NEED secure shell capabilities AND javascript capabilities in Arachne as
 soon as possible.

Dear list:
Yes, it would be nice, but a big ask it seems.
I have been rather depressed about failing to get any way of connecting
a computer to my mobile phone, even to the extent of contemplating
running a cut back Windows 98 as a vehicle for a driver.
q* ÿ-úg
Driverguide locks me out of downloads with that GIF picture of a number
thing, and most of the other places I have been keep falling over at the
bit where you have to submit a form and send some
cookies.

HOWEVER, the shocking thing for me is to find that moderately new
Netscapes have trouble also!!
Netscape 4.08 running on Win3.1 with Win32S loaded is a complete dog
compared to Arachne on the same machine. And it cant negotiate these
SSL demands either!  Forms wont submit, JS complaints occurr etc.

Worse still today we found that Netscape 4.75 will not run under win95.
40 Mb of bloat cant even download a page! Intentional M$ work?
†8ü-h
I am apalled at the way these new fat, ever changing browsers are
redefining the net. All people want is Hotmail, and they are drawn into
the catchme-if-you-can  of a cyberspace arms race.

Perhaps it is time to start a campaign of publicising browser friendly
sites. Public pressure works with plastic bags and vehicle exhaust - why
not start a listing of infamy with web sites?
Or, convince people to go for the not-quite-free email adresses like one
James has at http://www.idl.net.au
who run an Arachne tolerant webmail system. The performance over Hotmail
in speed, security, space, reliability, service, etc is worth a few
dollars.

All this vehemance from me started with a neighbour with a pentium 1
machine and 1 GB drive and 32 Mb RAM wanting to be able to receive
Yahoo mail.   It did not seem a big ask 
Obviously I am getting old, and time has been running under my feet
while I have been happily using an ageing Arachne .. must be more
than five years since Laura gave me 1.4 on a floppy.

Anyway, the battle against time is looking better since I pulled apart
my 30year old and half a million Km car engine, found it not too bad, and
lugged the block into the nearest machine shop for a rebore.

I really believe that some things are evergreen, And there is so much
that Arachne has got right!!

Bye
Kali


Re: Secure shell, JS, Arachne future?

2003-08-14 Thread Samuel W. Heywood
On Fri, 08 Aug 2003 08:56:44 +0900, Kali Mclaughlin wrote:

 On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 15:39:50 -0500, Sam Ewalt wrote:

 On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 14:04:21 -0400, Roger Turk wrote:

 We NEED secure shell capabilities AND javascript capabilities in
 Arachne as soon as possible.

 Yes, it would be nice, but a big ask it seems.
 I have been rather depressed about failing to get any way of connecting
 a computer to my mobile phone, even to the extent of contemplating
 running a cut back Windows 98 as a vehicle for a driver.

Maybe you should think about getting a new make and model of cell phone.
My Nokia 7160 works like a real external modem, needs no drivers, and it
works with all of my DOS-based internet applications and it works also
with Windows 95 and even with an obsolete hand-held computer running
version 1 of Window$ CE.  As an operating system I find Window$ CE almost
good.  I wish they would make such a small compact version of Window$
available for old desktops.  It would be a great boon for those who like
to do Window$ and who are looking for a version that is almost good.
The only new versions they are finding nowadays are the very bad ones
that are much worse than the version they had.

snip

 HOWEVER, the shocking thing for me is to find that moderately new
 Netscapes have trouble also!!
 Netscape 4.08 running on Win3.1 with Win32S loaded is a complete dog
 compared to Arachne on the same machine. And it cant negotiate these
 SSL demands either!  Forms wont submit, JS complaints occurr etc.

I have found that browsers have a problem with all of their security
certificates periodically expiring.  That is the reason why they can't
negotiate the SSL part when they get old.  The browser companies won't
offer a simple patch for updating the security certificates.  Instead
they offer only the whole nine yards of their latest and greatest
versions, which include of course the new security certificates.

The reason why JS complaints occur is that many webmasters are in
cahoots with the bloatware browser companies who reward them for
writing so called JavaScript that will work only with bloatware
browsers.  If they were to write only kosher JavaScript it would
be digestible by all JavaScript capable browsers.  BTW, I have heard
of people successfully suing restaurants for serving meals
advertised on the menu as being kosher and which fail to meet kosher
standards.  I wish they would sue webmasters, or at least fire them,
for claiming to write kosher JavaScript which fails to meet the
specified standards.

Sam Heywood
--
This mail was written by user of The Arachne Browser:
http://browser.arachne.cz/



Re: Secure shell, JS, Arachne future?

2003-08-14 Thread Samuel W. Heywood
On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 15:20:51 +0930, Greg Mayman wrote:

 On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:23:59 -0500, Samuel W. Heywood wrote:

 A good way to see the waiting mail before downloading it to reply
 or even to read it is to access your inbox first by running PINE
 from a remote server.  Just look at the headers and mark all of your

 I remembered that you had mentioned this before so I dug out the
 archived message, and I see that the DOS version will not work with POP3
 servers.

 So that lets me out.

No, it does not let you out.  You can run a Unixish version of PINE
in a remote shell, even if your operating system is DOS.  The Unixish
versions will access POP3 servers.

 Do you know of any alternative methods that WILL work with POP3?

The DOS versions of PINE work only with IMAP servers.  Even with
IMAP servers the DOS versions work very poorly with those servers
running the new and so-called upgraded IMAP software.  The DOS
versions used to work fine on IMAP servers running the older
software.

For accessing your POP3 inboxes you can use Unixish versions of PINE
running on a remote Unixish shell account.  You can use DOS Telnet or
SSHDOS to log on to your remote shell account.  For security reasons
it is preferable to log on using SSHDOS instead of Telnet.

Sam Heywood
--
This mail was written by user of The Arachne Browser:
http://browser.arachne.cz/



Re: Secure shell, JS, Arachne future?

2003-08-14 Thread Greg Mayman
On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 15:39:50 -0500, Sam Ewalt wrote:

 On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 14:04:21 -0400, Roger Turk wrote:

 We NEED secure shell capabilities AND javascript capabilities in Arachne as
 soon as possible.

 What we need and what we're going to get may be two completely
 different things.

That is understood. OTOH, it is certainly in our interests to at least
try to work with what the rest of the world uses.

20 years ago, a lot of people knew that Beta was a better system than
VHS for home VCRs, but where are they now?

 Glenn has done a truly outstanding job of keeping Arachne development
 heading forward. We all owe him a debt of gratitude and appreciation.

We do indeed! I certainly admire what he has done. I wish that I could
do half as well.

 Maybe some sort of team effort can be orgainized after Micheal
 officially releases the latest version with the source code.

That's if you can get Michael to correspond with anyone.

I emailed him a while back with the message Does anyone read the email
to this address? He replied: Why not? I answered his email with the
reasons for my question but I never received a reply

 Obviously, major improvements are going to require major investments
 of time and effort from skilled people. But is there enough interest
 to make major improvements?

There probably is enough interest already. What we really need is
someone with that interest AND the necessary skills to develope a
solution. One person would be enough, but more than one person means
the chances are greatly increased.

Communication is the answer (see below).

 Only time will tell. We can only hope.

True.

 Does anyone have any constructive ideas about how to encourage
 Arachne development?
 Please speak up if you do.

Communication.

If we keep discussing what problems we find, then it is possible that
one or more of the people we correspond with may come up with an answer
to them.

This approach has worked with a number of other problems, as evidenced
by the messages in the arachne-list.

There is a chance that someone may have an idea that could lead to a
breakthrough with the more difficult problems like Javascript
compatibility.

But the surest way to fail is to think that all we have to do is blame the
problems on the people causing them, such as MicroSnot.

M$ is not about to rewrite all their code to accomodate Arachne. It is
up to us Arachne-lovers to find ways around the obstacles that M$ puts
in our path.

Greg

-- Arachne V1.71;UE01, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/



Re: Secure shell, JS, Arachne future?

2003-08-14 Thread Samuel W. Heywood
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:02:11 -0930, Kevin JCJD Symons wrote:

snip

 One facility that I would like incorporated into Arachne is something
 like http://www.mail2web.com/ where one can see the waiting mail
 [whether it be one your current ISP or at another address] and then
 choose to delete it BEFORE downloading it to reply. I have had several
 300Mb messages sent to me, and with limited space and a slow modem I
 have had to shell and delete some programs to make space to download
 this mail, only to delete it instantly.

snip

A good way to see the waiting mail before downloading it to reply
or even to read it is to access your inbox first by running PINE
from a remote server.  Just look at the headers and mark all of your
obvious spams and viruses for deletion, expunge them from your inbox,
and then close PINE and your connection to the remote server.  Then
start up Arachne and download the legitimate emails that are remaining
in your inbox.  I do this all the time and I do all these things during
the same internet session and over the same TCP/IP connection.  This
procedure is very fast and efficient and it allows you to mark and
expunge all your spams and viruses from your inbox in just one fell
swoop.  Oh, BTW, I have learned that an item of email that you should
always mark as a virus and not even download and open and read is any
message having a header saying that it is from Micro$oft.

Sam Heywood
--
This mail was written by user of The Arachne Browser:
http://browser.arachne.cz/



Re: LD again ...Re: Secure shell, JS, Arachne future?

2003-08-14 Thread Greg Mayman
On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 20:46:06 -0400, l.d.best [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Don't bet that the community is that small. MG

Well, let's say relatively small. I'd guess that M$ has captured
much better than 99% of the net users.

   Once
 Arachne is released so we can do legit work on it, there can
 be more qualified people show up out of the blue.  We're not
 the only ones who think M$ has an area code of 666 ...

Agreed.

Greg

-- Arachne V1.71;UE01, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/



Re: Secure shell, JS, Arachne future?

2003-08-14 Thread Samuel W. Heywood
On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 17:06:11 +0930, Greg Mayman wrote:

 On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:22:57 -0500, Samuel W. Heywood wrote:

 No, it does not let you out.  You can run a Unixish version of PINE
 in a remote shell, even if your operating system is DOS.  The Unixish
 versions will access POP3 servers.

 snip

 For accessing your POP3 inboxes you can use Unixish versions of PINE
 running on a remote Unixish shell account.  You can use DOS Telnet or
 SSHDOS to log on to your remote shell account.  For security reasons
 it is preferable to log on using SSHDOS instead of Telnet.

 That sounds interesting. But I have no idea where to start setting up
 something like that. Nor what SSHDOS might be.

You can sign up for a very fine and almost free remote Unixish shell
account running PINE at http://sdf.lonestar.org;.  You can also sign up
for shell accounts running PINE from other services, but most of the
others are neither free nor even almost free.  Some universities will set
up for their students free Unix shell accounts on the university's
servers.

On many Unix shell accounts you will find PINE already set up for you
on the very first time you log on.  You will only need to tweak it to
suit your preferences and you will want to add some additional inboxes
so that you can access all of your other various POP3 and IMAP email
accounts.

SSHDOS is a terminal program somewhat similar to Telnet, the major
difference being that unlike Telnet, it encrypts your password.  It
is much more secure than Telnet.  There are SSH programs for many
different operating systems.  SSHDOS is the one to get for DOS.
It is freeware.  You can download it from one of the sourceforge
web sites or ftp sites.

 Perhaps for the time being I should put up with downloading everything
 and sorting it out offline...

 Thanks anyway for the tip. Maybe when I have more time I'll follow it
 up.

 Greg Mayman

Sam Heywood
--
This mail was written by user of The Arachne Browser:
http://browser.arachne.cz/


Re: Secure shell, JS, Arachne future?

2003-08-14 Thread Bastiaan Edelman, PA3FFZ
Please would you explain:
What is telnet?
What is a shell account?

Bastiaan


On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 07:43:43 -0500, Sam Ewalt wrote:

 On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 18:16:48 -0400, Glenn McCorkle wrote:

 Perhaps in your area, shell accounts are common-place.

 Such is not the case here.

 CisNet does not offer this service.

 Nor does any other ISP in this area.
 (that I have been able to find)

 Dial up shell accounts are rare in many places. But remote shell
 accounts that you can telnet into don't have to be local. They
 can be anywhere on the Internet. Sam H. lives in Virgina and the
 shell account he uses sdf.lonestar.org is located in Texas. You
 could use an account on that same system from Ohio or China. And you
 could do that with DOS and Arachne via telnet.

 Sam Ewalt
 Croswell, Michigan, USA
 -- Arachne V1.70;rev.3, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/

-
*
Technische Redactie CQ-PA
Bastiaan Edelman, PA3FFZ
*
Attentie: e-mail adres bij Wanadoo niet meer gebruiken!

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://home.hetnet.nl/~ba8tian/index.html

** Virusvrij e-mailen? = Arachne browser/mailer **



Re: Secure shell, JS, Arachne future?

2003-08-14 Thread Greg Mayman
On Wed, 13 Aug 2003 16:33:19 -0500, Samuel W. Heywood wrote:

 You can sign up for a very fine and almost free remote Unixish shell
 account running PINE at http://sdf.lonestar.org;.  You can also sign up
 for shell accounts running PINE from other services, but most of the
 others are neither free nor even almost free.  Some universities will set
 up for their students free Unix shell accounts on the university's
 servers.

Almost free is not easy as the method of payment usually involves 
disclosing my card number, which I don't like doing.

However the information is noted.

Greg Mayman

-- Arachne V1.71;UE01, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/



Re: Secure shell, JS, Arachne future?

2003-08-14 Thread Greg Mayman
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:23:59 -0500, Samuel W. Heywood wrote:

 A good way to see the waiting mail before downloading it to reply
 or even to read it is to access your inbox first by running PINE
 from a remote server.  Just look at the headers and mark all of your

I remembered that you had mentioned this before so I dug out the
archived message, and I see that the DOS version will not work with POP3
servers.

So that lets me out.

Do you know of any alternative methods that WILL work with POP3?

Greg

-- Arachne V1.71;UE01, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/



Re: Secure shell, JS, Arachne future?

2003-08-14 Thread Kevin JCJD Symons
On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 14:23:59 -0500, Samuel W. Heywood wrote:
 On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 10:02:11 -0930, Kevin JCJD Symons wrote:

Cooee Sam!!!

 One facility that I would like incorporated into Arachne is something
 like http://www.mail2web.com/ where one can see the waiting mail
 [whether it be one your current ISP or at another address] and then
 choose to delete it BEFORE downloading it to reply. I have had several
 300Mb messages sent to me, and with limited space and a slow modem I
 have had to shell and delete some programs to make space to download
 this mail, only to delete it instantly.

 snip

 A good way to see the waiting mail before downloading it to reply
 or even to read it is to access your inbox first by running PINE
 from a remote server.  

I did a search for PINE the other day, and only came up with a Linux and
an OS/2 version. Do you have a site to snatch it from?


Cooee and Love,
Kevin JCJD Symons
4, Gifford Street
Torrensville, 5031
South Australia
[08] 82 34 18 97
Home of UTGT [Under The Gum Tree] 


-- Arachne V1.71;UE01, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/



Re: Secure shell, JS, Arachne future?

2003-08-14 Thread Glenn McCorkle
On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 15:39:50 -0500, Sam Ewalt wrote:

 On Sun, 3 Aug 2003 14:04:21 -0400, Roger Turk wrote:

 We NEED secure shell capabilities AND javascript capabilities in Arachne as
 soon as possible.

 What we need and what we're going to get may be two completely
 different things.

 Glenn has done a truly outstanding job of keeping Arachne development
 heading forward. We all owe him a debt of gratitude and appreciation.

Thank you very much for the 'much-needed' boost to my ego. :))

 Maybe some sort of team effort can be orgainized after Micheal
 officially releases the latest version with the source code.

 Obviously, major improvements are going to require major investments
 of time and effort from skilled people. But is there enough interest
 to make major improvements?

 Only time will tell. We can only hope.

Quite correct.
Only time will tell.

I am sorry to say that I am not the programmer to look to for making
such extensive changes/additions.

Yes,
I can make little 'tweaks' here-and-there in the SRC code which can make
existing features work a little better or a little differently than they
did before.

I can even make some small additions which add new features.

(a few examples)
added IgnoreJS,
added IgnoreCID,
added Https2Http,
added $K,
changed, POP3.LOG to make it more verbose,
fixed the Cacheindex.dgi bug in WWWMAN.EXE,
fixed the  'Begin' located at start of line bug in INSIGHT.EXE,
(and a few other small changes).

But as for adding JS support.
I must admit that this is beyond my programming abilities. :(

 Does anyone have any constructive ideas about how to encourage
 Arachne development?

 Please speak up if you do.

We need programmers who have better abilities than mine.

Two of them come to mind right-off-the-bat.

Bernie and Clarence. ;-)
_

BTW,
Please allow me to apologize to all list members for making those
'snide remarks' in my earlier replies.

--
 Glenn
 http://arachne.cz/
 http://www.delorie.com/listserv/mime/
 http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/
 http://www.cisnet.com/glennmcc/aqc/


Re: Secure shell, JS, Arachne future?

2003-08-14 Thread Greg Mayman
On Thu, 14 Aug 2003 15:11:51 +00, Bastiaan Edelman, PA3FFZ wrote:

 Please would you explain:
 What is telnetGreg Mayman
Greg Mayman
Greg Mayman
There's someone out there who is as dumb as I am, and not afraid to
admit it!

Greg Mayman

-- Arachne V1.71;UE01, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/



Re: Secure shell, JS, Arachne future?

2003-08-11 Thread Greg Mayman
On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 15:26:03 -0500, Sam Ewalt wrote:

 Somehow Arachne needs to become a project that will attract
 new talent and an influx of ability and energy.

An excellent idea! Now if we could only get Michael to agree. Or even
answer our mail. It seems he is much too busy with other projects to
bother with Arachne.

 There is a large pool of DOS programmers involved in the FreeDOS
 project--perhaps Arachne can become integrated into that
 community as the FreeDOS web browser.

 Something like that has to happen for Arachne to evolve further
 and become more capable.

Yes, the problem is that we are a small community, which necessarily
means a smaller pool of talent to draw on.

More participants means more ideas and/or solutions.

Not only that, more participants means many more opportunities for
partial solutions to come together to give a successful result.

This is what we really need!!!

Greg

-- Arachne V1.71;UE01, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/


Re: Secure shell, JS, Arachne future?

2003-08-10 Thread Rick Orr
programmers who have better abilities than mine.

Two of them come to mind right-off-the-bat.

Bernie and Clarence. 
Yup. 'nuf said.

later,
rick


Re: Secure shell, JS, Arachne future?

2003-08-10 Thread Sam Ewalt
On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 18:38:38 -0400, Glenn McCorkle wrote:


 We need programmers who have better abilities than mine.


Somehow Arachne needs to become a project that will attract
new talent and an influx of ability and energy.

There is a large pool of DOS programmers involved in the FreeDOS
project--perhaps Arachne can become integrated into that
community as the FreeDOS web browser.

Something like that has to happen for Arachne to evolve further
and become more capable.






Sam Ewalt
Croswell, Michigan, USA
-- Arachne V1.70;rev.3, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/



Re: Secure shell, JS, Arachne future?

2003-08-09 Thread Greg Mayman
On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 18:38:38 -0400, Glenn McCorkle wrote:

 BTW,
 Please allow me to apologize to all list members for making those
 'snide remarks' in my earlier replies.

You're no worse than the rest of us, for getting p*ssed off at times.

Just remember that criticism of Arachne is meant as CONstructive, not 
DEstructive.

If we didn't love Arachne, we wouldn't be reading this list, and we'd
probably be using MicroSnot's products, right?

Keep your pecker up, Glenn. We all still loves ya G

Greg

-- Arachne V1.71;UE01, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/