Re: arachne-digest V1 #2002

2003-01-04 Thread Thomas Mueller
> All you need is a mean to parse the query string, then pass it to the
> DBMS. If only there was a Perl or TCL for DOS...

> Regards

> Cristian Burneci

There is!  Perl for DOS, but no TCL as far as I know.  Perl DOS port is compiled
with DJGPP.  More information on Perl and DJGPP at
http://www.perl.com/
http://www.delorie.com/djgpp/




Re: arachne-digest V1 # 2002

2003-01-04 Thread Samuel W. Heywood
On Sat, 04 Jan 2003 13:43:35 +0100 (CET), [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Richard Menedetter) wrote:

> Hi Samuel!

> 04 Jan 2003, "Samuel W. Heywood" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> SH> I sometimes need to use a Window$ browser to do web sites that are
> SH> infested with JavaScript.
> Hmmm ... I allways thought that one needs a JavaScript capable browser to view
> these pages :-

True.

> But honestly ... mozilla for example is available for these platforms:
> Win32, MacOS 9, MacOS X, Linux, AIX, BeOS, BSD/OS, FreeBSD, HPUX, NetBSD,
> OpenVMS, OS/2 and Solaris.

> Why is there a need for a "windows browser" to view webpages which have
> embedded JS ??

In my current situation I have to use a Windows browser.  I am in a
travelling mode with my laptop.  I don't have available to me the means
to back up all my stuff to anything.  This is something I would of
course need to do before re-partitioning my drive to install a linux OS.

> IMHO there is no way to do it by DOS.
> Can't you simply use the keyboard ?? and tab your way to correct place ??
> (go to the start menu by ctrl-esc and from there on with cursor, tab etc.)
> it works for me if I'm too lazy to attach a mouse.

I don't know how to use Window$ without a mouse.  I have tried tabbing
and ALT + TAB, and using the arrow keys and it doesn't work for me.

I have just recently learned about how easy it is to use Arachne without
a mouse.  I don't know why Bill Gates didn't design his OS to work as
well without a mouse as Arachne does.

Sam Heywood


-- This mail was written by user of The Arachne Browser - http://arachne.cz/



Re: arachne-digest V1 # 2002

2003-01-03 Thread Juha Sahakangas
On Sat, Jan 04, 2003 at 01:09:25AM +, Samuel W. Heywood wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Sam Ewalt wrote:

> I sometimes need to use a Window$ browser to do web sites that are
> infested with JavaScript.  Now that my built-in pointing device on

I think most windows browsers are able to be used with keyboard only
javascript may make things harder, but most of the stuff should work...

Even with IE, basic functionality is there with no mouse, but Mozilla is
miles ahead, the type-ahead find of new versions rocks. You can just start
typing text, and the cursor jumps to nearest link that matches, or if so
configured even into non-link text, doesn't sound very useful at first,
but after you get used to it, it's just amazing. Not only does it beat
navigating all links one by one with tab, but most of the time it's easier
than using mouse as well.


> Window$ because Window$ wants you to use the point-and-click GUI to
> remove old hardware and to find new hardware and to install new hardware.
> I can't point-and-click if my mouse is running wild and out of control.

If the mouse is only "running wild" in the sense that cursor moves, it's
possible to change windows with alt-tab, and inside window navigate widgets
with tab, enter and space, rather easy to install drivers that way. If the
mouse is also automagically pressing it's buttons, then that's gonna make
matters difficult...


> There is probably a much easier way of doing these things simply by
> editing some Window$ start-up files while under DOS, and before going
> into Window$.

Windows 95+ stores it's settings mostly on registry, don't know whether or
not there are DOS applications for modifying that, but it's binary, so
nothing as easy as modifying something with a text editor a'la linux or
windozes when all was still in .ini files.

For the museum versions, I think win3.x mouse settings can be modified from
dos based setup program... not sure, though, it's been a while and can't
remember everything.



Re: arachne-digest V1 # 2002

2003-01-03 Thread Samuel W. Heywood
On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Sam Ewalt wrote:

> On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:24:10 + (UTC), Samuel W. Heywood wrote:
>
>
> > Thanks for telling me how amazingly simple and easy it is to navigate
> > Arachne in mouseless mode.
>
> > I just tried it out in off-line mode.  The Arachne graphics interface
> > is really very easy to use without a mouse.  I had previously
> > supposed that it would be very complicated and difficult, somewhat like
> > trying to go mouseless on another well known, but here unpopular, GUI
> > known as Window$.  Why didn't they design the Window$ GUI to work as
> > easily as the Arachne interface without a mouse?
>
> Actually Windows itself has keyboard equivalents for many functions
> but most people aren't aware of them. I don't know about the Windows
> browsers because I don't use them. And I don't know about more
> recent Windows versions, but I do know that prior to 95 Windows itself
> had keyboard equivalents and mouseless navigation.
>
I sometimes need to use a Window$ browser to do web sites that are
infested with JavaScript.  Now that my built-in pointing device on
my laptop no longer works, I am going to have one heck of a time
at trying to install a standard serial mouse for working under
Window$ because Window$ wants you to use the point-and-click GUI to
remove old hardware and to find new hardware and to install new hardware.
I can't point-and-click if my mouse is running wild and out of control.
There is probably a much easier way of doing these things simply by
editing some Window$ start-up files while under DOS, and before going
into Window$.  I don't know which files to edit and I don't know just
how they should be edited.  I would appreciate any help that someone
might be able to offer on how to solve this problem.  For working only
under DOS, it is so easy to uninstall a defective built-in mouse and to
install instead an alternative and functional standard serial mouse.
Window$ likes to make the simplest things s terribly complicated.

Sam Heywood
-- Message sent by Unix Pine, Version 4.44





Re: arachne-digest V1 # 2002

2003-01-03 Thread Sam Ewalt
On Fri, 3 Jan 2003 18:24:10 + (UTC), Samuel W. Heywood wrote:


> Thanks for telling me how amazingly simple and easy it is to navigate
> Arachne in mouseless mode.

> I just tried it out in off-line mode.  The Arachne graphics interface
> is really very easy to use without a mouse.  I had previously
> supposed that it would be very complicated and difficult, somewhat like
> trying to go mouseless on another well known, but here unpopular, GUI
> known as Window$.  Why didn't they design the Window$ GUI to work as
> easily as the Arachne interface without a mouse?


Actually Windows itself has keyboard equivalents for many functions
but most people aren't aware of them. I don't know about the Windows
browsers because I don't use them. And I don't know about more
recent Windows versions, but I do know that prior to 95 Windows itself
had keyboard equivalents and mouseless navigation.






Sam Ewalt
Croswell, Michigan, USA
-- Arachne V1.70;rev.3, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/




Re: arachne-digest V1 # 2002

2003-01-03 Thread Samuel W. Heywood
On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Sam Ewalt wrote:

> On Thu, 02 Jan 2003 09:39:50-0400, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > The reason why I am using this program instead of Arachne right now is
> > that I am currently travelling with my laptop and the infernal internal
> > mouse is running wild and I can't control it.  I have the kind which has
> > a tiny little control stick that pokes out of the middle of the keyboard.
> > At the slightest touch it goes wild and races all over the screen.  I
> > can't hold it still so as to position it on a spot long enough to click
> > on it.  I will disable the internal mouse and I will acquire and install
> > an external mouse later.  Unlike Clarence, I never learned how to use
> > Arachne without a mouse.
>
>
> Fairly simple to navigate mouseless. Use the arrow keys to move the
> cursor left and right, up and down. Hit "enter" to select. Also the
> "tab" key jumps the cursor to the next link.  That's enough for most
> purposes.
>
> "Page Up" and "Page Down" do the obvious. Learning how to use Arachne
> without a mouse seems a lot simpler to me than finding, learning and
> installing another program.

Thanks for telling me how amazingly simple and easy it is to navigate
Arachne in mouseless mode.

I just tried it out in off-line mode.  The Arachne graphics interface
is really very easy to use without a mouse.  I had previously
supposed that it would be very complicated and difficult, somewhat like
trying to go mouseless on another well known, but here unpopular, GUI
known as Window$.  Why didn't they design the Window$ GUI to work as
easily as the Arachne interface without a mouse?

My excuse for not using Arachne this time is that I have to dial long
distance from my vacation place to hook up with my regular ISP,
shentel.net.  I am currenetly connected to "access-4-free" with lsppp
for DOS and using a local dialup number.  I can do my shentel email
through my Unix shell account at "sdf.lonestar.org"
>
> Customising the "F-" keys for your favorite functions will make
> navigation easier as well. It will cut down on the positioning and
> clicking needed for everyday tasks.

> Sam Ewalt
> Croswell, Michigan, USA
> -- Arachne V1.70;rev.3, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/

Sam Heywood
-- Message sent by Unix Pine, Version 4.44





Re: arachne-digest V1 #2002

2003-01-02 Thread Thomas Mueller
Excerpt from "Glenn Gilbreath Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> OK, the final topic is MTA, mail transport agent...while it
> is true there are quite a number for DOS, I still vote for
> NetMail DOS 2.12 by Marc Ressl...it is faster and easier
> to setup than any other I've tried, which includes FDSMTPOP.

I find one serious flaw with NetMail DOS including 2.12 on downloading (POP3).
When an email message has one or more lines of 1024 characters, NetMail
downloads the message but then hangs, going into an infinite loop of adding
whitespace to the downloaded message, was up to about 3 MB when I hit Ctrl-C and
stopped it.  Then all messages remain on the POP3 server, including those
messages that downloaded successfully prior to the message with the line(s) of
1024 characters.  UKA_PPP breezes through with no problem.

I would get such long lines occasionally with about.com newsletters,
occasionally with another newsletter I never subscribed to, and more recently
with some base64-encoded Korean spams.  With some of those base64-encoded 
Korean spams, the base64 code would go all the way on one line through
character 1024, then character 1025 would start the next line, etc.

I'm not sure what the RFCs say about line length in mail and news messages,
but a mail and/or news client needs to be able to take a little rough treatment,
should not crash just because a message deviates from standards.



Re: arachne-digest V1 # 2002

2003-01-02 Thread Sam Ewalt
On Thu, 02 Jan 2003 09:39:50-0400, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The reason why I am using this program instead of Arachne right now is
> that I am currently travelling with my laptop and the infernal internal
> mouse is running wild and I can't control it.  I have the kind which has
> a tiny little control stick that pokes out of the middle of the keyboard.
> At the slightest touch it goes wild and races all over the screen.  I
> can't hold it still so as to position it on a spot long enough to click
> on it.  I will disable the internal mouse and I will acquire and install
> an external mouse later.  Unlike Clarence, I never learned how to use
> Arachne without a mouse.


Fairly simple to navigate mouseless. Use the arrow keys to move the
cursor left and right, up and down. Hit "enter" to select. Also the
"tab" key jumps the cursor to the next link.  That's enough for most
purposes.

"Page Up" and "Page Down" do the obvious. Learning how to use Arachne
without a mouse seems a lot simpler to me than finding, learning and
installing another program.

Customising the "F-" keys for your favorite functions will make
navigation easier as well. It will cut down on the positioning and
clicking needed for everyday tasks.






Sam Ewalt
Croswell, Michigan, USA
-- Arachne V1.70;rev.3, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/




Re: arachne-digest V1 # 2002

2003-01-02 Thread sheywood

On Wed, 1 Jan 2003 13:53:24 -0600 Glenn Gilbreath Jr.
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



> OK, the final topic is MTA, mail transport agent...while it
> is true there are quite a number for DOS, I still vote for
> NetMail DOS 2.12 by Marc Ressl...it is faster and easier
> to setup than any other I've tried, which includes FDSMTPOP.



I have tried NetMail DOS 2.12 by Marc Ressl and have tried also FDSMTPOP.
Also I have tried many other mail transport agents for DOS.  I agree that
NetMail DOS 2.12 is among the most easy to set up and use.

In my experience the easiest of all to set up and use is NetMail Pro
by David Colston, author of Nettamer.  The program comes with its own
internal PPP dialer and packet driver.  I like NetMail Pro so much for
its simplicity and reliability that I even registered my copy.

The reason why I am using this program instead of Arachne right now is
that I am currently travelling with my laptop and the infernal internal
mouse is running wild and I can't control it.  I have the kind which has
a tiny little control stick that pokes out of the middle of the keyboard.
At the slightest touch it goes wild and races all over the screen.  I
can't hold it still so as to position it on a spot long enough to click
on it.  I will disable the internal mouse and I will acquire and install
an external mouse later.  Unlike Clarence, I never learned how to use
Arachne without a mouse.

Sam Heywood
P.S.  I am shopping for a mini-mouse for my laptop.  I used to have one
many years ago.  It was very small.  It worked just like a standard size
mouse and it worked fine.  I lost it and I can't find another one.

-- Message sent by Net-Mail Pro (DOS). See http://www.nettamer.net/xagent.html 




Re: arachne-digest V1 #2002

2003-01-02 Thread Cristian Burneci
HTML-DBMS interface looks doable

I did a little research on the DGI aspects and found out the following:
(maybe this is a bit like reinventing the wheel, but...)


- First one has to have a little knowledge about HTML forms and CGIs
 
- Then read "dgi.txt" and the syntax rules of "mime.cfg". For instance
"inbox.dgi" is not an executable file as one may expect, but a parameter
located in one of the "mime.cfg" lines (same like "image/jpg"). Search
there for it and observe in what way "inbox.dgi" is  associated to
"insight.exe".

- Then observe that, when shelling out, the necessary commands get
assembled in $ROURA$.BAT (in my case located in %TEMP%\ARACHNE.TMP). This
is a temporary batch file. It gets executed then deleted.

- The query string location depends on how the respective line in mime.cfg looks
like. If "$s" is used, the query string is passed as an argument of
program call command in  $ROURA$.BAT. If "$q" is used, the query string
is found in $QUERY$.TMP (in the same temporary directory). A bit like
"GET" and "POST" methods :). Process any dgi type form (like reply to an
e-mail message) and get a snapshot of these two files.

All you need is a mean to parse the query string, then pass it to the
DBMS. If only there was a Perl or TCL for DOS...

Regards

Cristian Burneci

On Wed, 1 Jan 2003 18:18:36 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Shelling out to a program is just that - shelling OUT. The user must
> still maneuver through the outside program's interface. If a DBMS looked
> and operated exactly like an HTML form, then there would be no problem.
> But none of them do.

> My desire is to see a DBMS interface that operates from an HTML form.
> When someone is taught how to use Arachne and HTML, they would
> simultaneously be able to use a database. I work mostly with people who
> are not familiar with electronic equipment. Lesson One is the on-off
> switch. Teaching two separate (and fundamentally different) program
> interfaces is counter productive to quick developmental progress.

> Such a HTML-DBMS Arachne interface would open up a lot of opportunities
> for all Arachne users. I've received several emails (off list) from
> Arachnoids using CD-ROMs as a data server, although the data is
> pre-formatted in TXT or HTM files. DB files would be even more flexible,
> allowing comparisons, and-or, if-then, and a bunch of other handy
> commands.

>> Finally, a tip about EEK and OOK files...Read the docs folks!  Plain
>> as day,

> Apparently not, if "folks" (plural) keep asking. Rumor has it that EEK
> was originally a verbal exclamation from an early Arachne user, who was
> trying to figure out the file scheme and structure.

> By the way, if the instructions were in a database format, they would
> have been quickly located and consolidated. Hence, fewer questions to the
> list.

>> OK, enough for todays lessons...Happy New Year!

> Ditto.

> Bob

> -

> 
> Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
> Only $9.95 per month!
> Visit www.juno.com

-- This mail was written by user of The Arachne Browser for DOS
 - http://arachne.cz/
-- Arachne V1.71;UE01, NON-COMMERCIAL copy, http://arachne.cz/




Re: arachne-digest V1 #2002

2003-01-01 Thread bobdohse
Gee, Wiz  (or GEE WIZ !!!),


On Wed, 1 Jan 2003 13:53:24 -0600 "Glenn Gilbreath Jr."
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I think though that some of us may be missing the point
> entirely of WHY Arachne was developed in the first place
> back in 1996...xChaos had in mind a complete "Internet Suite"
> for rather obsolete DOS computers.  

Some would argue that Arachne - like DOS or the dinosaur - must grow and
adapt, or die. It matters not why Arachne was developed. If it doesn't
meet the continuing needs of some users, then they will move on. At some
point, there are no more users (and no more updates). That's probably why
there is no Arachne code written for the Commodore 64.


> Arachne WAS NOT
> intended as a front end for any database program, nor as
> a shell for DOS...though with some work it can be used as
> such.  

And air conditioning wasn't intended as a cooling device for vehicles. So
what? 

Here in the Arizona desert, most people are happy that somebody pushed
the envelope. We're also happy for electrical starters, power steering,
and power brakes. We've even replaced our tube radios with newer devices
that use electronic components.


> For users to somehow imply that Arachne is inferior
> because it doesn't interface well with XML docs, or some DB2
> or FoxPro database is sort of silly, IMNSHO.  

A search of past email reveals ZERO use of the word INFERIOR. But, maybe
I deleted those emails. At any rate, I don't recall anyone suggesting
that Arachne was inferior. Not extended in the directions some might find
useful, but never inferior. My favorite adjective happens to be GREAT.
I'm hoping for greatER.


> What you can
> do is write a simple BATCH program to launch your database
> software, copy that to your Arachne\OOPS directory then rename
> it to something like DATABASE.OOK, and your set...if desired you
> can even assign an icon inside WWWMAN.CFG.  There, that wasn't
> so freackin' hard now was it?

Except that it doesn't work like that.

Shelling out to a program is just that - shelling OUT. The user must
still maneuver through the outside program's interface. If a DBMS looked
and operated exactly like an HTML form, then there would be no problem.
But none of them do.

My desire is to see a DBMS interface that operates from an HTML form.
When someone is taught how to use Arachne and HTML, they would
simultaneously be able to use a database. I work mostly with people who
are not familiar with electronic equipment. Lesson One is the on-off
switch. Teaching two separate (and fundamentally different) program
interfaces is counter productive to quick developmental progress.

Such a HTML-DBMS Arachne interface would open up a lot of opportunities
for all Arachne users. I've received several emails (off list) from
Arachnoids using CD-ROMs as a data server, although the data is
pre-formatted in TXT or HTM files. DB files would be even more flexible,
allowing comparisons, and-or, if-then, and a bunch of other handy
commands.


> Finally, a tip about EEK and OOK files...Read the docs folks!  Plain 
> as day, 

Apparently not, if "folks" (plural) keep asking. Rumor has it that EEK
was originally a verbal exclamation from an early Arachne user, who was
trying to figure out the file scheme and structure.

By the way, if the instructions were in a database format, they would
have been quickly located and consolidated. Hence, fewer questions to the
list.


> OK, enough for todays lessons...Happy New Year!

Ditto.

Bob


-


Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com



Re: arachne-digest V1 #2002

2003-01-01 Thread Glenn Gilbreath Jr.
Hiya Gang!
First offHappy New Year!  Hehehe...
Now, on to my opinions...
Glennmcc asked is there is any "practical" use for Java
inside Arachne...simple answer, correct answer...NO!!!
While it may be that Java is an OS of sorts, and some
JVMs (Java Virtual Machines) exist for various other
operating systems, in MANY years of Internet use, I have
yet to stumble across anything where it was absolutely
necessary to have JVM...over the course of my adventures
and explorations, the only Java Applets I have used were
a few simple games, prizepoint.com, and a few other small
applets...a couple are even on my first website on AOHell,
members.aol.com/GLENNRPH/glennrph.htm, a banner 
for the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children
and a simple "news bulletin" ticker.  The pages display
just fine without Java.  There's my vote...no JVM for DOS!

OK, the final topic is MTA, mail transport agent...while it
is true there are quite a number for DOS, I still vote for
NetMail DOS 2.12 by Marc Ressl...it is faster and easier
to setup than any other I've tried, which includes FDSMTPOP.
As for using stricly CORE.EXE, well...if you can do it, fine.
I think though that some of us may be missing the point
entirely of WHY Arachne was developed in the first place
back in 1996...xChaos had in mind a complete "Internet Suite"
for rather obsolete DOS computers.  Arachne WAS NOT
intended as a front end for any database program, nor as
a shell for DOS...though with some work it can be used as
such.  For users to somehow imply that Arachne is inferior
because it doesn't interface well with XML docs, or some DB2
or FoxPro database is sort of silly, IMNSHO.  What you can
do is write a simple BATCH program to launch your database
software, copy that to your Arachne\OOPS directory then rename
it to something like DATABASE.OOK, and your set...if desired you
can even assign an icon inside WWWMAN.CFG.  There, that wasn't
so freackin' hard now was it?

Finally, a tip about EEK and OOK files...Read the docs folks!  Plain as
day, they say that EEK files a small DOS batch programs which CAN
pass DOS variables to CORE.EXE or other executables...OOKs are
BATCH programs which run completely outside of Arachne.

OK, enough for todays lessons...Happy New Year!
Wiz  <{;-)
Glenn