Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Francis Gerund via arch-general]

On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 11:58 AM, Nicolas F.  wrote:

> On 28.09.2016 17:24, Francis Gerund via arch-general wrote:
> >
> > 
> >
>
> That was my reaction when I saw you post a long debunked FUD story to
> this list. The problem lies with Intel and Lenovo, not Microsoft, and it
> was not a malicious move against Linux, no matter how hard you want to
> be the victim here. If you want to run on modern computers, keep up with
> hardware developments, otherwise you're just dragging everyone else down.
>
> Stop getting your only source of information from shit websites with
> shit users such as slashdot.
>


Ouch!

Okay . . .  then would you please recommend one or more sites that you
consider less "shit" than Slashdot?

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Nicolas F.]

On 28.09.2016 17:24, Francis Gerund via arch-general wrote:
> 
> 
> 

That was my reaction when I saw you post a long debunked FUD story to
this list. The problem lies with Intel and Lenovo, not Microsoft, and it
was not a malicious move against Linux, no matter how hard you want to
be the victim here. If you want to run on modern computers, keep up with
hardware developments, otherwise you're just dragging everyone else down.

Stop getting your only source of information from shit websites with
shit users such as slashdot.

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 11:35:00 +0200, Lukas Rose wrote:
>And the cases it didn't work out of the box were non-rolling-release
>Distros where most times a manual kernel upgrade to some more recent
>version fixed it.

Sometimes it requires a BIOS update. When my mobo was new, it could be
used with Linux, but a few BIOS updates were needed, before Linux run
stable.

Sometimes we simply don't notice that something doesn't work, because
we simply don't use it, something like...

"Certification notes

Suspend is not supported on this device

The hardware design of this device does not support suspend (S3).
Suspend, therefore, does not work."
- http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/201504-18282/

...won't be an issue for all users, but OTOH it likely is a very
serious issue for other users.

Regards,
Ralf

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[gurnaik via arch-general]

On 29/09/16 11:19, Lukas Rose wrote:


"Worked for you this day", "you were lucky "…? I am talking of 100+ Linux 
installations on different hardware over the last few years. Not just one or two lucky cases. And 
sometimes it was very new hardware, like WiFi-Chips that were released a few weeks ago.



I would generally agree with you, but I recently bought a Lenovo Yoga 
laptop which came with Broadcom WIFI and Bluetooth that are not 
currently supported by Linux.


So I would say you've been lucky up to now ;)

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Lukas Rose]

> On 29 Sep 2016, at 11:56, Martin Kühne via arch-general 
>  wrote:
> 
> Honestly, though, "worked for you to this day" just doesn't cut it in this 
> case.
> Just because you were lucky or never had to deal with really new
> hardware doesn't mean hardware compatibility is not an issue.
> And the rarer the case of incompatibility appears, the more
> disappointing it actually is when it hits you, and I guess we all
> agree that a bit of accumulated data about how to avoid them as much
> as possible is a good start.

"Worked for you this day", "you were lucky "…? I am talking of 100+ Linux 
installations on different hardware over the last few years. Not just one or 
two lucky cases. And sometimes it was very new hardware, like WiFi-Chips that 
were released a few weeks ago.

But hey, I don't even disagree with the idea of aggregating hardware data that 
works. I guess running a wiki page on that really is a good idea. I just wanted 
to say that Linux compatibility Isn't that bad as often assumed, and I don' 
know why. I often hear people talking like: "Hey, watch out that this new 
external HDD is Linux certified", "when you buy new hardware, you really have 
to make sure that it's Linux compatible, because it often isn't".

I wanted to give an example that People are offen overcautious with that, and 
that companies may abuse this misbelief to make money by selling regular 
hardware as "Linux compatible" at higher prices. And after all, we shouldn't 
scare off new soon-to-be Linux users with these old scars of hardware 
compatibility, should we? ;)

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Martin Kühne via arch-general]

On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 11:35 AM, Lukas Rose  wrote:
>
> I've been installing various Linux distributions on all kinds of notebooks 
> and desktop-PCs for several years now, and I almost never had problems with 
> hardware compatibility. Just follow the basic rules like avoid dedicated 
> graphics if you don't need them, prefer Intel chips, and you're done! But 
> even if you don't watch out for those, like many of the people did who 
> brought me their computers, it still works - almost always. And the cases it 
> didn't work out of the box were non-rolling-release Distros where most times 
> a manual kernel upgrade to some more recent version fixed it. So I don't get 
> why people are always calling for "Linux compatibility", most common hardware 
> does work.


Honestly, though, "worked for you to this day" just doesn't cut it in this case.
Just because you were lucky or never had to deal with really new
hardware doesn't mean hardware compatibility is not an issue.
And the rarer the case of incompatibility appears, the more
disappointing it actually is when it hits you, and I guess we all
agree that a bit of accumulated data about how to avoid them as much
as possible is a good start.

cheers!
mar77i

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Lukas Rose]

> On 29 Sep 2016, at 10:40, Christian Kruse  wrote:
> 
> I can be sure that everything works with Linux. I don't have the time or
> the energy to check the hardware vendors manually

I've been installing various Linux distributions on all kinds of notebooks and 
desktop-PCs for several years now, and I almost never had problems with 
hardware compatibility. Just follow the basic rules like avoid dedicated 
graphics if you don't need them, prefer Intel chips, and you're done! But even 
if you don't watch out for those, like many of the people did who brought me 
their computers, it still works - almost always. And the cases it didn't work 
out of the box were non-rolling-release Distros where most times a manual 
kernel upgrade to some more recent version fixed it. So I don't get why people 
are always calling for "Linux compatibility", most common hardware does work. 

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 11:15:27 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
>On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 10:15:19 +0200, Martin Kühne via arch-general
>wrote:  
>>Whoever makes a start with the wiki page will likely refer to this
>>thread as a reference.
>
>And perhaps
>
>http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/
>
>however, sometimes such lists are tricky. Sometimes hardware is
>mentioned as Linux compatible and they forget one from 4 revisions that
>isn't. I experienced this for a 56K modem. It's also possible that
>something works with Linux, but doesn't provide all available features,
>such as for professional RME audio cards.  

PS:

Not to mention AMD/ATI drivers that might work, but not with all
versions of X.

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 10:15:19 +0200, Martin Kühne via arch-general wrote:
>Whoever makes a start with the wiki page will likely refer to this
>thread as a reference.

And perhaps

http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/

however, sometimes such lists are tricky. Sometimes hardware is
mentioned as Linux compatible and they forget one from 4 revisions that
isn't. I experienced this for a 56K modem. It's also possible that
something works with Linux, but doesn't provide all available features,
such as for professional RME audio cards.

Regards,
Ralf

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Marshall Cleave]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256



>Good evening,
>
>Do you Have any pointer to good opensource hardware ?
>
>Le 28 sept. 2016 21:04, "Jude DaShiell"  a écrit :
>

If somebody is going to create a wiki entry then I wish to put forward
Entroware https://www.entroware.com/store/
I've never bought anything from them yet but I did have a good chat to
some of the people from Entroware at the last OggCamp. They seemed like
decent people and have a reasonable selection of equipment installed
with Ubuntu LTS or freeNAS or OS free.




Regards
Marshall
- -timttmy


-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 10:45:12 +0200, Christian Kruse wrote:
>Ralf Mardorf writes:
>
>> You are right, but you also missed something. I've taken a look at an
>> averaged tower PC. At first appearance the price seems to be ok, but
>> after a further look I noticed that it's just the basic price, if you
>> want at least one hard disk drive, you already need to pay more. How
>> do they install an Ubuntu flavor, if you buy a computer without hard
>> disk drive? In the end it's plain daylight robbery.  
>
>I don't think that this is true; generally their desktop systems come
>with a 500GB Segate HDD. And as I just checked I couldn't find a system
>without a disk; could you provide a link?

My apologies,
indeed, one drive is mounted,
http://www.tuxedocomputers.com/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Computer-/-PCs/Alle-Systeme/TUXEDO-Six-Intel-Core-Series-Linux-Komplett-PC-Hoechstleistung-fuer-hoechste-Ansprueche.geek?x88efa=gst9atn5t86hthjethnkusjco3
 .

>> DIY is significant less expensive, even if you should buy some
>> hardware that shouldn't work with Linux, even if you then wouldn't
>> get your money back and need to buy some hardware twice.  
>
>DIY was always less expensive and will always be. But it will cost you
>your time. I'm not willing to pay that price.

DIY is usually not that significant less expensive as it is compared to
tuxedocomputers.com.

Regards,
Ralf

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Christian Kruse]

Hi,

Dragon ryu via arch-general  writes:

> I generality don't hate DIY PC. I think it worth pay your time to do
> so.

I don't hate them. When I was younger all my computers were DIY
computers. But times change, and my work load increased; now my spare
time is *very* limited and I am no longer willing to spend time on
things like looking for the right hardware.

Best regards,
-- 
Christian Kruse
https://wwwtech.de/about


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Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Ralf Mardorf]

On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 10:40:17 +0200, Christian Kruse wrote:
>I can be sure that everything works with Linux.

For what purpose? Writing emails and surfing through the world wide web?
How does their computers work, if you boot the kernel with "threadirqs"
for real-time tasks? Will it cause less or much jitter for pro-audio,
or CNC?

That a machine "woks with Linux" is a vague claim.

I bought hardware that was announced as Linux compatible. But it
wasn't. I got my money back and my dealer removed the vendor's claim
from the catalogue. There are often pitfalls such as, "you can connect
a drive to this interface and it will work with Linux", missing the
information "you can not boot a Linux from a drive that is connected
to this interface" and similar issues.

Regards,
Ralf

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Dragon ryu via arch-general]

2016/09/29 17:44 "Christian Kruse" :
>
> Hi,
>
> Ralf Mardorf  writes:
>
> > You are right, but you also missed something. I've taken a look at an
> > averaged tower PC. At first appearance the price seems to be ok, but
> > after a further look I noticed that it's just the basic price, if you
> > want at least one hard disk drive, you already need to pay more. How do
> > they install an Ubuntu flavor, if you buy a computer without hard disk
> > drive? In the end it's plain daylight robbery.
>
> I don't think that this is true; generally their desktop systems come
> with a 500GB Segate HDD. And as I just checked I couldn't find a system
> without a disk; could you provide a link?
>
> > DIY is significant less expensive, even if you should buy some
> > hardware that shouldn't work with Linux, even if you then wouldn't get
> > your money back and need to buy some hardware twice.
>
> DIY was always less expensive and will always be. But it will cost you
> your time. I'm not willing to pay that price.
>
> Best regards,
> --
> Christian Kruse
> https://wwwtech.de/about

I generality don't hate DIY PC. I think it worth pay your time to do so.

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Christian Kruse]

Hi,

Ralf Mardorf  writes:

> You are right, but you also missed something. I've taken a look at an
> averaged tower PC. At first appearance the price seems to be ok, but
> after a further look I noticed that it's just the basic price, if you
> want at least one hard disk drive, you already need to pay more. How do
> they install an Ubuntu flavor, if you buy a computer without hard disk
> drive? In the end it's plain daylight robbery.

I don't think that this is true; generally their desktop systems come
with a 500GB Segate HDD. And as I just checked I couldn't find a system
without a disk; could you provide a link?

> DIY is significant less expensive, even if you should buy some
> hardware that shouldn't work with Linux, even if you then wouldn't get
> your money back and need to buy some hardware twice.

DIY was always less expensive and will always be. But it will cost you
your time. I'm not willing to pay that price.

Best regards,
-- 
Christian Kruse
https://wwwtech.de/about


signature.asc
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Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Jude DaShiell]

thinkpenguin.com is another open architecture vendor.
On Thu, 29 Sep 2016, 
Christian Kruse wrote:



Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2016 03:54:17
From: Christian Kruse <c...@defunct.ch>
Reply-To: General Discussion about Arch Linux <arch-general@archlinux.org>
To: General Discussion about Arch Linux <arch-general@archlinux.org>
Subject: Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks
Linux Installation

Hi,

Maxwell Anselm via arch-general <arch-general@archlinux.org> writes:



Do you Have any pointer to good opensource hardware ?



Not exactly open-source/FSF-endorsed but https://system76.com/ sells
laptops with Ubuntu-preinstalled so those are also guaranteed to run Arch.


Germany has such a company as well:

<http://www.tuxedocomputers.com/>

They're selling devices with either Ubuntu or ElementaryOS
pre-installed. I bought a InfinityBook, it works pretty well and
flawless.

UK has something like that, too:

<https://www.entroware.com/store/>

They sell devices with Ubuntu pre-installed.

Best regards,



--

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Christian Kruse]

Hi,

Merlin Büge  writes:

> But note that all that is not open source hardware (as mentioned
> above).

True, that's why I answered here and not earlier :-)

> Also I'm not getting the point in buying such hardware -- there is
> some linux distribution preinstalled, but that's it I guess. Or am I
> missing something?

I can be sure that everything works with Linux. I don't have the time or
the energy to check the hardware vendors manually, I want to buy
hardware that just works; my time is too limited and to precious to me
to work around hardware/driver flaws.

Best regards,
-- 
Christian Kruse
https://wwwtech.de/about


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Martin Kühne via arch-general]

On Thu, Sep 29, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Merlin Büge  wrote:
> But note that all that is not open source hardware (as mentioned above).
> Also I'm not getting the point in buying such hardware -- there is some linux
> distribution preinstalled, but that's it I guess. Or am I missing something?
>

The hardware might be chosen so that it works well with linux. If you're lucky.
Other than that, I find the term open source hardware was probably
misused in the first place in this thread, as the topic as I
understood it was "hardware for use with free software".

> If you want open source hardware, I recommend looking at
> - the EOMA68 project
> - Olimex
> - upcoming Talos Workstation by Raptor Engineering
> - maybe devices supported by libreboot
>

Whoever makes a start with the wiki page will likely refer to this
thread as a reference.

cheers!
mar77i

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Merlin Büge]

On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 09:54:17 +0200
Christian Kruse  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Maxwell Anselm via arch-general  writes:
> 
> >>
> >> Do you Have any pointer to good opensource hardware ?
> >
> >
> > Not exactly open-source/FSF-endorsed but https://system76.com/ sells
> > laptops with Ubuntu-preinstalled so those are also guaranteed to run Arch.
> 
> Germany has such a company as well:
> 
> 
> 
> They're selling devices with either Ubuntu or ElementaryOS
> pre-installed. I bought a InfinityBook, it works pretty well and
> flawless.
> 
> UK has something like that, too:
> 
> 
> 
> They sell devices with Ubuntu pre-installed.

But note that all that is not open source hardware (as mentioned above).
Also I'm not getting the point in buying such hardware -- there is some linux
distribution preinstalled, but that's it I guess. Or am I missing something?

If you want open source hardware, I recommend looking at
- the EOMA68 project
- Olimex
- upcoming Talos Workstation by Raptor Engineering
- maybe devices supported by libreboot

Regards,

Merlin






-- 
Merlin Büge 

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Christian Kruse]

Hi,

Maxwell Anselm via arch-general  writes:

>>
>> Do you Have any pointer to good opensource hardware ?
>
>
> Not exactly open-source/FSF-endorsed but https://system76.com/ sells
> laptops with Ubuntu-preinstalled so those are also guaranteed to run Arch.

Germany has such a company as well:



They're selling devices with either Ubuntu or ElementaryOS
pre-installed. I bought a InfinityBook, it works pretty well and
flawless.

UK has something like that, too:



They sell devices with Ubuntu pre-installed.

Best regards,
-- 
Christian Kruse
https://wwwtech.de/about


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Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Martin Kühne via arch-general]

I passively +1 to creating a wiki page for the time being.
While it's worth mentioning the good parts as we listed them in this
thread, it's also important to list bad parts and link the
intel/lenovo debacle, somehow.
Also, I might go and put whatever broadcom wifi interfaces on that
list that failed me in the past (insert a poorly chosen list of swear
words here).

cheers!
mar77i

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[G. Schlisio]

> I would personally recommend the Project Sputnik hardware from Dell
> ,
> in particular the XPS 13 Developer Edition .They put a decent amount of
> effort into making sure the BIOS and firmware at least work with the latest
> version of Ubuntu and mainline these for the most part. Worst comes to
> worst, you can just repackage the stuff from Ubuntu but I'd say pretty much
> everything is working as well as it should on mainline Arch today.

[…]

>> Not exactly open-source/FSF-endorsed but https://system76.com/ sells
>> laptops with Ubuntu-preinstalled so those are also guaranteed to run Arch.

we should propably collect such knowledge in the wiki. something like
"hardware guide" or similar?

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Arsalan Afzal via arch-general]

I would personally recommend the Project Sputnik hardware from Dell
,
in particular the XPS 13 Developer Edition .They put a decent amount of
effort into making sure the BIOS and firmware at least work with the latest
version of Ubuntu and mainline these for the most part. Worst comes to
worst, you can just repackage the stuff from Ubuntu but I'd say pretty much
everything is working as well as it should on mainline Arch today.

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 3:55 PM, Maxwell Anselm via arch-general <
arch-general@archlinux.org> wrote:

> >
> > Do you Have any pointer to good opensource hardware ?
>
>
> Not exactly open-source/FSF-endorsed but https://system76.com/ sells
> laptops with Ubuntu-preinstalled so those are also guaranteed to run Arch.
>

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Maxwell Anselm via arch-general]

>
> Do you Have any pointer to good opensource hardware ?


Not exactly open-source/FSF-endorsed but https://system76.com/ sells
laptops with Ubuntu-preinstalled so those are also guaranteed to run Arch.

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Martin Kühne via arch-general]

The FSF has a directory of hardware that respects geek's freedom [0].
I've recently been on a UK based liberated hardware seller, but hell I
can't dig up the link right now.

cheers!
mar77i

[0] http://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/endorsement/respects-your-freedom

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Plonky Duby via arch-general]

Good evening,

Do you Have any pointer to good opensource hardware ?

Le 28 sept. 2016 21:04, "Jude DaShiell" <jdash...@panix.com> a écrit :

> That or buy an open architecture device.  The new computer I have is an
> open architecture computer for that very reason and I bought that last year.
>
> On Wed, 28 Sep 2016, Martin K?hne via arch-general wrote:
>
> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 14:55:54
>> From: Martin K?hne via arch-general <arch-general@archlinux.org>
>> To: General Discussion about Arch Linux <arch-general@archlinux.org>
>> Cc: Martin K?hne <mysat...@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks
>> Linux Installation
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 5:35 PM, Francis Gerund via arch-general
>> <arch-general@archlinux.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I worry about if and how this will affect Arch.  Any opinions?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> It's a thing people have to be wary about. Average arch users may have
>> similar laziness with regards to what their hardware requirements are
>> as users of other distros - we're so used to have stuff just working.
>> So the only advice I can give, if you should figure out you buy a new
>> device, save your receipt so you get your money back.
>>
>> cheers!
>> mar77i
>>
>>
> --
>

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Jude DaShiell]

That or buy an open architecture device.  The new computer I have is an 
open architecture computer for that very reason and I bought that last 
year.


On Wed, 28 Sep 2016, Martin K?hne via arch-general wrote:


Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2016 14:55:54
From: Martin K?hne via arch-general <arch-general@archlinux.org>
To: General Discussion about Arch Linux <arch-general@archlinux.org>
Cc: Martin K?hne <mysat...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks
Linux Installation

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 5:35 PM, Francis Gerund via arch-general
<arch-general@archlinux.org> wrote:

I worry about if and how this will affect Arch.  Any opinions?





It's a thing people have to be wary about. Average arch users may have
similar laziness with regards to what their hardware requirements are
as users of other distros - we're so used to have stuff just working.
So the only advice I can give, if you should figure out you buy a new
device, save your receipt so you get your money back.

cheers!
mar77i



--

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Martin Kühne via arch-general]

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 5:35 PM, Francis Gerund via arch-general
 wrote:
> I worry about if and how this will affect Arch.  Any opinions?
>
>


It's a thing people have to be wary about. Average arch users may have
similar laziness with regards to what their hardware requirements are
as users of other distros - we're so used to have stuff just working.
So the only advice I can give, if you should figure out you buy a new
device, save your receipt so you get your money back.

cheers!
mar77i

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Martin Kühne via arch-general]

If anything, it's intel being asswipe lazy to not upstream linux
drivers for this new raid mode.

cheers!
mar77i

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Simon Doppler]

On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 11:35:04 -0400
Francis Gerund via arch-general  wrote:

> I worry about if and how this will affect Arch.  Any opinions?
> 
> 
> On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Kyle Bassett via arch-general <
> arch-general@archlinux.org> wrote:
> 
> > This is insane!  Apple set the precedent with smart phones, but now we have
> > Trusted Computing Creep in desktops.  Used are losing further control of
> > their own devices.
> >
> > Ugh.
> >
> > On 28 Sep 2016 11:27, "D C via arch-general" 
> > wrote:
> >
> > Wow, is MS desperate or something?
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Francis Gerund via arch-general
> >  wrote:  
> > > https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/16/09/21/1516230/  
> > microsoft-signature-pc-  
> > > requirements-now-blocks-linux-installation-reports?sbsrc=md
> > >
> > > It was nice while it lasted.
> > >
> > >   
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Public_Key_Block.asc
> >  

This won't really affect Arch any more than any other new hardware
missing a driver, because that's all it really is (source: [1]). This
hardware won't be usable until someone (either a someone with knowledge
and free time or Lenovo or Intel) provides a driver for this hardware.

[1]:
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/53ri0m/warning_microsoft_signature_pc_program_now/d7wekux

-- 
Simon Doppler (dopsi)
W: https://dopsi.ch
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GitHub: https://github.com/dopsi
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pgpzuQc58ETbA.pgp
Description: OpenPGP digital signature

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[D C via arch-general]

I'm not gonna lie, this is all a tad technical even for me, but
wouldn't intsalling an AMD chip solve the issue?

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 11:45 AM, Doug Newgard  wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 11:24:25 -0400
> Francis Gerund via arch-general  wrote:
>
>> https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/16/09/21/1516230/microsoft-signature-pc-
>> requirements-now-blocks-linux-installation-reports?sbsrc=md
>>
>> It was nice while it lasted.
>>
>> 
>
> They don't "block" Linux. They are using a higher performance RAID setup that
> there's simply no Linux driver for yet. Once someone creates one, you'll be
> able to install Linux. This is normal with new hardware, it happens all of the
> time.



-- 
Public_Key_Block.asc

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Dragon ryu via arch-general]

2016/09/29 1:22 "D C via arch-general" :
>
> I'm not gonna lie, this is all a tad technical even for me, but
> wouldn't intsalling an AMD chip solve the issue?
>
> On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 11:45 AM, Doug Newgard 
wrote:
> > On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 11:24:25 -0400
> > Francis Gerund via arch-general  wrote:
> >
> >>
https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/16/09/21/1516230/microsoft-signature-pc-
> >> requirements-now-blocks-linux-installation-reports?sbsrc=md
> >>
> >> It was nice while it lasted.
> >>
> >> 
> >
> > They don't "block" Linux. They are using a higher performance RAID
setup that
> > there's simply no Linux driver for yet. Once someone creates one,
you'll be
> > able to install Linux. This is normal with new hardware, it happens all
of the
> > time.
>
>
>
> --
> Public_Key_Block.asc

hmm. Interesting.
rather " 'driver' should be included inside kernel, or not" will separates
priority and difficulty...
All we need is wait. I assume.

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Doug Newgard]

On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 11:24:25 -0400
Francis Gerund via arch-general  wrote:

> https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/16/09/21/1516230/microsoft-signature-pc-
> requirements-now-blocks-linux-installation-reports?sbsrc=md
> 
> It was nice while it lasted.
> 
> 

They don't "block" Linux. They are using a higher performance RAID setup that
there's simply no Linux driver for yet. Once someone creates one, you'll be
able to install Linux. This is normal with new hardware, it happens all of the
time.

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Francis Gerund via arch-general]

I worry about if and how this will affect Arch.  Any opinions?


On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 11:31 AM, Kyle Bassett via arch-general <
arch-general@archlinux.org> wrote:

> This is insane!  Apple set the precedent with smart phones, but now we have
> Trusted Computing Creep in desktops.  Used are losing further control of
> their own devices.
>
> Ugh.
>
> On 28 Sep 2016 11:27, "D C via arch-general" 
> wrote:
>
> Wow, is MS desperate or something?
>
> On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Francis Gerund via arch-general
>  wrote:
> > https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/16/09/21/1516230/
> microsoft-signature-pc-
> > requirements-now-blocks-linux-installation-reports?sbsrc=md
> >
> > It was nice while it lasted.
> >
> > 
>
>
>
> --
> Public_Key_Block.asc
>

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Kyle Bassett via arch-general]

This is insane!  Apple set the precedent with smart phones, but now we have
Trusted Computing Creep in desktops.  Used are losing further control of
their own devices.

Ugh.

On 28 Sep 2016 11:27, "D C via arch-general" 
wrote:

Wow, is MS desperate or something?

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Francis Gerund via arch-general
 wrote:
> https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/16/09/21/1516230/
microsoft-signature-pc-
> requirements-now-blocks-linux-installation-reports?sbsrc=md
>
> It was nice while it lasted.
>
> 



--
Public_Key_Block.asc

Re: [arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[D C via arch-general]

Wow, is MS desperate or something?

On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Francis Gerund via arch-general
 wrote:
> https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/16/09/21/1516230/microsoft-signature-pc-
> requirements-now-blocks-linux-installation-reports?sbsrc=md
>
> It was nice while it lasted.
>
> 



-- 
Public_Key_Block.asc

[arch-general] Microsoft Signature PC Requirements Now Blocks Linux Installation

[Francis Gerund via arch-general]

https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/16/09/21/1516230/microsoft-signature-pc-
requirements-now-blocks-linux-installation-reports?sbsrc=md

It was nice while it lasted.