Re: Re : Re: Raspberry Pi5/500 "officially" supported?

2025-12-10 Thread Stefan Seyfried

Hi Guillaume,

Am 10.12.25 um 15:26 schrieb Guillaume GARDET:


You can use higher end systems such as:
* MINISFORUM MS-R1  
https://store.minisforum.com/products/minisforum-ms-r1-workstation?variant=47289624690933
* Radxa Orion O6 https://radxa.com/products/orion/o6/


With the radxa I need to build a system -- find and buy a case, etc. 
Things I stopped doing 20 years ago ;-) Also, they state "Debian 12 
Native, Integrated with CIX P1 Kernel Package and Extensions" which 
sounds like "frankenstein Kernel, good luck!" but I might be wrong.


The Minisforums is three times the price of the Pi500+ I ordered. Yes, I 
get three times the number of cores and double the memory, but maybe 
relative to the price, the performance is similar.
Also "*For the best experience, please use the official OS image until 
the driver is merged into the main branch." => Frankenstein kernel.



Yes, they are more expensive, but also much more powerful (armv9+ with lots of 
RAM, etc.) and with a proper EFI boot and a good upstream support.


Fpr the Raspberries, for me the proven track record of 
raspberrypi.{org,com} in ways of supporting their stuff for a long time 
is more convincing than the vague marketing on the other vendor's pages.




Maybe better to buy one of this higher end system instead of multiple RPi 5?


I just bought one, the pi500+ will replace the pi400 (and probably keep 
the two pi4b's switched off more often ;-)).


In a few years, when I want to phase out the pi4b's, the situation might 
be different and I might buy something else.
The good thing: I know today that I'll be able to use the pi's for other 
hobby projects 5 years from now :-D


Best regards and thanks for the advice. It is appreciated, even if I did 
not follow it this time :-)


Stefan
--
Stefan Seyfried

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over
 public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman


Re: Re : Re: Raspberry Pi5/500 "officially" supported?

2025-12-10 Thread Bret Towe
On Wed, Dec 10, 2025 at 6:26 AM Guillaume GARDET 
wrote:

> Hi Stefan,
>
> - Stefan Seyfried  a écrit :
> > Hi Torsten,
> >
> > Am 10.12.25 um 13:55 schrieb Torsten Duwe:
> >
> > > Knowing you and knowing the RPi5, I strongly suggest you have a look
> at alternate
> > > platforms; my personal favourites are rk3588 based; YMMV.
> > >
> > > The Pi5 NVME IF has only a single lane, which only works reliable at
> Gen2 speed.
> > > To compare, the Rock5B I'm currently typing to has a quad-lane Gen3.
> The Rock 5B+
> > > splits that into 2x2 Gen3 if you prefer. There are some boards with
> 2.5Gb Ether,
> > > if you want to extend into NFS. The quad-core CPU is not bad, but the
> current state
> > > seems to be to add at least 4 more "little" cores, if not another 4
> medium-sized ones.
> > > So long story short: the Pi5 might not be the best choice starting
> already with the
> > > hardware, let alone the documentation.
> >
> > I am biased here.
> >
> > Just last week, i put a raspi os on my first Raspberry Pi Model B, to
> > use my RaspyRFM module for a POC decoding my wmbus watermeter.
> >
> > What do I want to convey with this nice story?
> > With a Raspberry Pi I can, more than 10 years after it was initially
> > sold, download a up-to-date OS image *from the original vendor* and use
> it.
> >
> > All other ARM board vendors from boards I have, provide, if at all, a
> > badly hacked together debian or ubuntu image with a frankenstein'd
> > Kernel where you are lucky to find sources at all. You can download this
> > image from some crazy google drive account or a dropbox link which might
> > be available tomorrow -- or not.
>
> You can use higher end systems such as:
> * MINISFORUM MS-R1
> https://store.minisforum.com/products/minisforum-ms-r1-workstation?variant=47289624690933
> * Radxa Orion O6 https://radxa.com/products/orion/o6/
>
> Yes, they are more expensive, but also much more powerful (armv9+ with
> lots of RAM, etc.) and with a proper EFI boot and a good upstream support.
>

https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2025/minisforum-stuffs-entire-arm-homelab-ms-r1
looking at Jeff's review I'm not sure how well supported they are, the
ms-r1 I feel is not worth it until its supported by mainline kernel


>
> Maybe better to buy one of this higher end system instead of multiple RPi
> 5?
>
> Cheers,
> Guillaume
>
>
> >
> > Maybe this situation has changed, and 10 years from now I will be able
> > to tell. Today, I continue to just use what worked well for me and
> > that's Raspberry Pies. I'm too old to waste time with the cheap SOC of
> > the day and I'd rather trade some performance for ease of use and
> > hassle-free operations :-D
> >
> > Oh, just checked and found that the Rock5 would be significantly more
> > expensive than the Raspi500+ I just ordered, so remove the "cheap" in
> > the last sentence ;)
> >
> > My obsworkers have been running on a RPi400 and two RPi4B/8GB, all with
> > USB-Connected SSDs, so replacing the 400 with the 500+ will be a welcome
> > improvement, even if theoretically there would be more performant
> > options available.
> >
> > Best regards, and thanks for your concerns, but I prefer to not follow
> > your suggestion :-)
> >
> >   Stefan
> >
> > (And yes, I know, the raspberry pi also needs frankenstein kernel hacks,
> > the first model until today does not run right with a mainline kernel,
> > this is why I use raspi os on it, but at least I can get a raspi os for
> > it after > 10 years).
> > --
> > Stefan Seyfried
> >
> > "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over
> >   public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman
>


Re : Re: Raspberry Pi5/500 "officially" supported?

2025-12-10 Thread Guillaume GARDET
Hi Stefan,

- Stefan Seyfried  a écrit :
> Hi Torsten,
> 
> Am 10.12.25 um 13:55 schrieb Torsten Duwe:
> 
> > Knowing you and knowing the RPi5, I strongly suggest you have a look at 
> > alternate
> > platforms; my personal favourites are rk3588 based; YMMV.
> > 
> > The Pi5 NVME IF has only a single lane, which only works reliable at Gen2 
> > speed.
> > To compare, the Rock5B I'm currently typing to has a quad-lane Gen3. The 
> > Rock 5B+
> > splits that into 2x2 Gen3 if you prefer. There are some boards with 2.5Gb 
> > Ether,
> > if you want to extend into NFS. The quad-core CPU is not bad, but the 
> > current state
> > seems to be to add at least 4 more "little" cores, if not another 4 
> > medium-sized ones.
> > So long story short: the Pi5 might not be the best choice starting already 
> > with the
> > hardware, let alone the documentation.
> 
> I am biased here.
> 
> Just last week, i put a raspi os on my first Raspberry Pi Model B, to 
> use my RaspyRFM module for a POC decoding my wmbus watermeter.
> 
> What do I want to convey with this nice story?
> With a Raspberry Pi I can, more than 10 years after it was initially 
> sold, download a up-to-date OS image *from the original vendor* and use it.
> 
> All other ARM board vendors from boards I have, provide, if at all, a 
> badly hacked together debian or ubuntu image with a frankenstein'd 
> Kernel where you are lucky to find sources at all. You can download this 
> image from some crazy google drive account or a dropbox link which might 
> be available tomorrow -- or not.

You can use higher end systems such as:
* MINISFORUM MS-R1  
https://store.minisforum.com/products/minisforum-ms-r1-workstation?variant=47289624690933
* Radxa Orion O6 https://radxa.com/products/orion/o6/

Yes, they are more expensive, but also much more powerful (armv9+ with lots of 
RAM, etc.) and with a proper EFI boot and a good upstream support.

Maybe better to buy one of this higher end system instead of multiple RPi 5?

Cheers,
Guillaume


> 
> Maybe this situation has changed, and 10 years from now I will be able 
> to tell. Today, I continue to just use what worked well for me and 
> that's Raspberry Pies. I'm too old to waste time with the cheap SOC of 
> the day and I'd rather trade some performance for ease of use and 
> hassle-free operations :-D
> 
> Oh, just checked and found that the Rock5 would be significantly more 
> expensive than the Raspi500+ I just ordered, so remove the "cheap" in 
> the last sentence ;)
> 
> My obsworkers have been running on a RPi400 and two RPi4B/8GB, all with 
> USB-Connected SSDs, so replacing the 400 with the 500+ will be a welcome 
> improvement, even if theoretically there would be more performant 
> options available.
> 
> Best regards, and thanks for your concerns, but I prefer to not follow 
> your suggestion :-)
> 
>   Stefan
> 
> (And yes, I know, the raspberry pi also needs frankenstein kernel hacks, 
> the first model until today does not run right with a mainline kernel, 
> this is why I use raspi os on it, but at least I can get a raspi os for 
> it after > 10 years).
> -- 
> Stefan Seyfried
> 
> "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over
>   public relations, for nature cannot be fooled." -- Richard Feynman