Re: Economists job market/search costs
In my experience, with electrical engineering and biomedical engineering, it seems that the average seems about 5 to 6 years, probably closer to 5. Among graduates since about 1995, anyway. I'm saddened to hear that the norm of 4 years and yer out is breaking down. Engineering schools still maintain it to no harm. What has happened in the economics profession? Fabio -- John A. Viator, Ph.D. Beckman Laser Institute 1002 Health Sciences Road East University of California Irvine, CA 92612 (949)824-3754 (949)824-6969 fax [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Economists job market/search costs
> Having publications before you go on the market can make a very big > difference. At least 10 years ago very few people did and having > - - Bill Dickens An article in the Journal of Human Resources about 10 years ago showed that having 1 article had a big effect on landing a job, 2 articles a little more, and then you get diminishing returns. The JHR articled did quality of the journal counts a lot, too. The bigger the better. I'm saddened to hear that the norm of 4 years and yer out is breaking down. Engineering schools still maintain it to no harm. What has happened in the economics profession? Fabio
Re: Economists job market/search costs
I should note that all my answers are based on 12 years experiencing advising Berkeley graduate students. I'm not sure how well it translates to GMU students. Also, my info is 10 years old. >1. Once you are almost ABD, what is the opportunity cost of prolonging your >graduation one more year, as opposed to just taking your chances at the job >market right now? Depends on how long you have been working on your PhD. It used to be the case that taking more than 4 years to finish an Economics PhD was seen as a bad sign and going on the market in your 4th year even if your PhD dissertation wasn't that far along was the normal advice. However, it is my understanding that the 4 year norm has been breaking down so that may not be an issue so much anymore. If not I'm sure there is still some marginal penalty in that people who finish early are considered better risks than people who take a long time to finish their dissertation. >2. What is the opportunity cost of trying the job market "prematurely", and, >worse comes to worse, just cancel the job search if nothing appealing comes >about and then try again the year after that? The cost of going on the academic market more than once is huge. If you go on one year and don't get a job you are known as damaged goods (someone no one wanted last time). Since testing the water and then pulling out is not the norm this hurts. Avoid doing it at all cost if you want a good academic job. If you are in some other market where people aren't watching who is coming out of where every year I doubt it would matter. >3. What is the benefit, at the margin, of going into the market with say >one, two, or zero publications? (For instance, perhaps the market is so >tight that the marginal benefit is not that big--after all, low-tier >institutions may not be that different.) Having publications before you go on the market can make a very big difference. At least 10 years ago very few people did and having published work was taken as a very strong signal. However, most hiring committees can probably do the math. Five years with two publications vs. four years with 1. But who are you kidding. You really don't have a choice. If you go on before your advisor tells you to our don't do it when your advisor tells you to you are going to get your advisor ticked off at you and then you will never get a job anyway. - - Bill Dickens
Re: SV: Economists job market/search costs
In my view, there are costs to going out early and few benefits. First, there is the nightmare scenario in which you get a job that requires you to teach while still trying to finish your dissertation - beware, these rocks have sunk many a ship. You should not go out unless you are confident that your dissertation can be finished (meaning signed off by all parties not just finished in your head) *well* before your job begins (i.e. give yourself a summer to move and develop course notes). Second, I think that initial placement is quite important. The quality of your colleagues will greatly aid you in your future work and you will be much better off if you begin with a 3/3 or less teaching load rather than a 4/4 which might happen if you go out in a weak position - so it's better to begin with a strong start. Third, one or two years in another instituion won't help you at all unless you have published a quick string of papers that indicates that you were low-placed low to begin with. The advantage of getting a job early is the money. Individual circumstances vary but you should think of life-cycle smoothing etc. Of course delay is not worthwhile unless you make the most of it. In my view, the ideal situation is to arrange to teach 1 class at your own or nearby institution to get you some money and experience and to use your free time to finish your dissertation, hone your working papers, and gather more skills - then go out onto the market confident that you have the skills, experience and qualifications necessary to do as well as possible. My comments are aimed at those interested in the academic market. Chresten is right that the situation is different if you are less interested in pursuing this course. If you don't expect to compete in the publishing market, for example, then quality of colleagues is less important and actual experience in whatever industry you find a job in is more important thus going out earlier is less costly (but still beware of having to finish your dissertation and start a new job at the same time). Alex -- Alexander Tabarrok Department of Economics, MSN 1D3 George Mason University Fairfax, VA, 22030 Tel. 703-993-2314 and Director of Research The Independent Institute 100 Swan Way Oakland, CA, 94621 Tel. 510-632-1366
SV: Economists job market/search costs
Let me start by saying that I do not have a Ph.D and do not have an indepth econ background. I am a humble poli sci ABT with a personal interest in public choice theory and therefore Econ. Besides I find it useful in policy analysis as well, however this being said it seems to me that in order to answer the question one must have more information. I know that you are a almost ABD, but do not know what your dream job is. In order to give advice on job hunting that would seem appropriate. If you want to work in a think tank, then the situation would seem to be rather different than if you want to work at GMU or another unversity. Same goes for the size of University you want to work at. You might easily find a job at a small university but not at a large one. Essentially what I am saying is that you first need to ponder what you want to do with your doctorate before asking advice on how to seek a job. Not because people cannot give you good advice, but because the advice would depend on the job you seek. For anyone out there feel free to comment on my analysis as well. Sincerely Yours Chresten Anderson -Oprindelig meddelelse-Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]På vegne af [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sendt: 30. oktober 2002 23:10Til: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Emne: Economists job market/search costs(If this is not truly armchair material, I apologize in advance)Dear Armchairs,Advice for novice economics graduates is not scarce in several sources. As a fourth year phd student from Mason, however, there are some questions that I have not seen addressed very much--and here I want to profit from the considerable armchair audience familiarized with the demand and supply of George Mason (or similar programs) graduates.1. Once you are almost ABD, what is the opportunity cost of prolonging your graduation one more year, as opposed to just taking your chances at the job market right now?Typically, the advise given is to check with your advisor, and whenever he says "go", one must go into the market. Which is fine, but,2. What is the opportunity cost of trying the job market "prematurely", and, worse comes to worse, just cancel the job search if nothing appealing comes about and then try again the year after that?Other advice is that the more (or the stronger) the publications, teaching, and research record, the better your chances are in the market. Surely, but,3. What is the benefit, at the margin, of going into the market with say one, two, or zero publications? (For instance, perhaps the market is so tight that the marginal benefit is not that big--after all, low-tier institutions may not be that different.)Finally, other advice is to be patient and realistic. Even a non-ideal placement is a good place to start, and from there it's up to yourself to move up--or not. But,4. What increases the chances of better placement in the future more, one more year as a grad student (doing papers, teaching, etc.), or one or two years of work in X-institution?Again, if this posting is off-mark, I apologize. Otherwise, I'd appreciate any comments.Thanks,-An economist who cannot "do the math" of going into the market. :-)
Economists job market/search costs
(If this is not truly armchair material, I apologize in advance) Dear Armchairs, Advice for novice economics graduates is not scarce in several sources. As a fourth year phd student from Mason, however, there are some questions that I have not seen addressed very much--and here I want to profit from the considerable armchair audience familiarized with the demand and supply of George Mason (or similar programs) graduates. 1. Once you are almost ABD, what is the opportunity cost of prolonging your graduation one more year, as opposed to just taking your chances at the job market right now? Typically, the advise given is to check with your advisor, and whenever he says "go", one must go into the market. Which is fine, but, 2. What is the opportunity cost of trying the job market "prematurely", and, worse comes to worse, just cancel the job search if nothing appealing comes about and then try again the year after that? Other advice is that the more (or the stronger) the publications, teaching, and research record, the better your chances are in the market. Surely, but, 3. What is the benefit, at the margin, of going into the market with say one, two, or zero publications? (For instance, perhaps the market is so tight that the marginal benefit is not that big--after all, low-tier institutions may not be that different.) Finally, other advice is to be patient and realistic. Even a non-ideal placement is a good place to start, and from there it's up to yourself to move up--or not. But, 4. What increases the chances of better placement in the future more, one more year as a grad student (doing papers, teaching, etc.), or one or two years of work in X-institution? Again, if this posting is off-mark, I apologize. Otherwise, I'd appreciate any comments. Thanks, -An economist who cannot "do the math" of going into the market. :-)
