Re: Grade inflation - an easy explanation?
Good point in general. In this particular case, however, Iowa requires too semesters of rhetoric for everyone. That means that they have something like 200 sections of rhetoric per year, so if the classes has even the same percentage of student complaints as normal undergraduate classes the department would be swamed with complaints. Of course in an environment in which the students had to make a real case for their complaints instead of the instructors having to "disprove" the complaints much of the cost of complaints would be shifted to the students. Complaints without a solid prima facie basis would get dismissed out of hand. David Levenstam In a message dated 1/14/03 5:35:18 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > >Also consider the possibility that many departments get budgets based on >enrollments - and tough grades scare students away! Fabio > >On Tue, 14 Jan 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> In the Rhetoric Department at Iowa instructors who tried to actually >teach >> writing and therefore generated many student complaints were offered >out of >> their contracts--that is, forced out--because the chair and assistant >chair >> didn't want to deal with student complaints. >> >> In a message dated 1/14/03 2:17:30 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >> >> > >> >Has anybody tested the hypothesis that professors assign easy grades >> >because it sucks up too much time? >> > >> >Consider the costs of tough grading - spending more time correcting >> >papers, extra time spent arguing grades with students and the extra >effort >> >it takes to design challenging tests and assignments. >> > >> >Fabio >> >
Re: Grade inflation - an easy explanation?
> Has anybody tested the hypothesis that professors > assign easy grades > because it sucks up too much time? Hi, I am intersted in a related question. Are grades of new and/or 'experimental' classes intentionally inflated? New classes often suffer from poor attendance and an initial bout of 'inflation' may be a good way to get more students to enroll. Thanks Arham __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: Grade inflation - an easy explanation?
Also consider the possibility that many departments get budgets based on enrollments - and tough grades scare students away! Fabio On Tue, 14 Jan 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > In the Rhetoric Department at Iowa instructors who tried to actually teach > writing and therefore generated many student complaints were offered out of > their contracts--that is, forced out--because the chair and assistant chair > didn't want to deal with student complaints. > > In a message dated 1/14/03 2:17:30 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > >Has anybody tested the hypothesis that professors assign easy grades > >because it sucks up too much time? > > > >Consider the costs of tough grading - spending more time correcting > >papers, extra time spent arguing grades with students and the extra effort > >it takes to design challenging tests and assignments. > > > >Fabio >
Re: Grade inflation - an easy explanation?
> begin with? Why did grade inflation begin to occur > when it did (the 1960s??)? I doubt it was because > grading time increased? Actually, grading time increased around the 1960's - larger class sizes. Per student it's less but many more students. Also, it's my impression research requirements for tenure increasred around that time. So the cost of time went up at that time. Fabio
Re: Grade inflation - an easy explanation?
In the Rhetoric Department at Iowa instructors who tried to actually teach writing and therefore generated many student complaints were offered out of their contracts--that is, forced out--because the chair and assistant chair didn't want to deal with student complaints. In a message dated 1/14/03 2:17:30 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > >Has anybody tested the hypothesis that professors assign easy grades >because it sucks up too much time? > >Consider the costs of tough grading - spending more time correcting >papers, extra time spent arguing grades with students and the extra effort >it takes to design challenging tests and assignments. > >Fabio
Re: Grade inflation - an easy explanation?
If that were the case, why werent grades easy to begin with? Why did grade inflation begin to occur when it did (the 1960s??)? I doubt it was because grading time increased? Grading can take a lot of time, but at research universities, faculty often dont do their own grading. Multiple choice exams (or having fewer exams or graded assignments) can also save time, without necessitating grade inflation. Seth Giertz --- fabio guillermo rojas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Has anybody tested the hypothesis that professors > assign easy grades > because it sucks up too much time? > > Consider the costs of tough grading - spending more > time correcting > papers, extra time spent arguing grades with > students and the extra effort > it takes to design challenging tests and > assignments. > > Fabio > > > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Grade inflation - an easy explanation?
Has anybody tested the hypothesis that professors assign easy grades because it sucks up too much time? Consider the costs of tough grading - spending more time correcting papers, extra time spent arguing grades with students and the extra effort it takes to design challenging tests and assignments. Fabio
Re: Grade Inflation
The misallocation of resources seems obvious if you look at the job prospects of English majors vs Engineering majors: the world wants more engineers. Fabio's argument seems to be that most students' ability to be an engineer is partially predetermined, and that the ones with fewer talents wouldn't be much more useful if they decided to study engineering anyway (compared to their usefulness with an English degree). The bottom line is: grade inflation shouldn't interefere with the process of students choosing their majors. Gustavo - Original Message - From: "fabio guillermo rojas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 1:45 PM Subject: Re: Grade Inflation > > The effect of this is to draw students away from math, science and > > economics and towards the softer social sciences. Similarly, within > > departments students are drawn away from harder graders and towards > > softer graders. Budgets go where students go! Thus grade inflation > > causes a *misallocation of resources* (measured in student time or in > > budgets.) > > Alex > > Alex, were you reading the New York Times this morning? Seriously, > how much misallocation is occuring? Why is better to have more math and > physics majors, and less English majors? Maybe this is in some sense > optimal. > Why should people who can't do math clog up math classes? > English professors are cheaper and more numerous, so maybe lax grading > is a way of allowing people to get the degree while not burdening > the big money generators of the university.
Re: Grade Inflation
In response to Fabio's comments: If you just start by saying "what's the optimal number of math or english PhDs" then obviously you are going to get nowhere. A better procedure, however, is to say that the current situation is non-optimal if it is based upon arbitrary factors. In particular, the distribution of students and budgets can't be optimal if it is based on the fact that some professors and disciplines arbitrarily grade easier than other professors and disciplines. Thus, rather than say "I think there should be more math and science degrees" I say "I think the choice of what degree to puruse should not be based on an arbitrary grade inflation factor." Alex P.S. I very much doubt that such a system is second-best optimal. Here is a test for all such arguments (in this and in other contexts). If all disciplines and professors graded on a common scale would anyone argue in *favor* of grade inflation in English? I seriously doubt it - thus such ex-post rationalizations should be given little weight (even - perhaps especially! - if they come from exceedingly clever people like Fabio). P.P.S. I was not reading the NYTimes this morning but I did find what Fabio was referring to, an article by Valen Johnson. Available here: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/04/14/edlife/14ED-VIEW.html Several years ago in Statistical Science, Johnson proposed a grading scheme that would overcome the grade inflation problem. You can find the paper on his home page, but to make a long story short the essential idea is to downweight an A from a professor/discipline that gives all As (and thus provides little discriminating information) and to upweigh an A from a professor/discipline where there are As and Cs. I was enthusiastic about Johnson's proposal when I brought it up on this list some time ago. There was some discussion then, I think Robin had some critiques - check the archives. Alex -- Dr. Alexander Tabarrok Vice President and Director of Research The Independent Institute 100 Swan Way Oakland, CA, 94621-1428 Tel. 510-632-1366, FAX: 510-568-6040 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Grade Inflation
That's what I meant. ;-) >The real problem with grade inflation is not the reduction in > information that might be used by employers. As with regular inflation, > the real problem is that grade inflation is not uniform - some > departments and some professors are more subject to inflation than > others. In particular, grade inflation tends to be much worse the > softer the science: grades are almost always significantly higher in > art, cultural anthropology, and english than in math, physics and > economics, for example. And within departments it is well known that > some professors grade easier than others. > > The effect of this is to draw students away from math, science and > economics and towards the softer social sciences. Similarly, within > departments students are drawn away from harder graders and towards > softer graders. Budgets go where students go! Thus grade inflation > causes a *misallocation of resources* (measured in student time or in > budgets.) > > Alex > -- > Dr. Alexander Tabarrok > Vice President and Director of Research > The Independent Institute > 100 Swan Way > Oakland, CA, 94621-1428 > Tel. 510-632-1366, FAX: 510-568-6040 > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > First Law of Work: If you can't get your work done in the first 24 hours, work nights.
Re: Grade Inflation
> The effect of this is to draw students away from math, science and > economics and towards the softer social sciences. Similarly, within > departments students are drawn away from harder graders and towards > softer graders. Budgets go where students go! Thus grade inflation > causes a *misallocation of resources* (measured in student time or in > budgets.) > Alex Alex, were you reading the New York Times this morning? Seriously, how much misallocation is occuring? Why is better to have more math and physics majors, and less English majors? Maybe this is in some sense optimal. Why should people who can't do math clog up math classes? English professors are cheaper and more numerous, so maybe lax grading is a way of allowing people to get the degree while not burdening the big money generators of the university. Fabio
Re: Grade Inflation
The real problem with grade inflation is not the reduction in information that might be used by employers. As with regular inflation, the real problem is that grade inflation is not uniform - some departments and some professors are more subject to inflation than others. In particular, grade inflation tends to be much worse the softer the science: grades are almost always significantly higher in art, cultural anthropology, and english than in math, physics and economics, for example. And within departments it is well known that some professors grade easier than others. The effect of this is to draw students away from math, science and economics and towards the softer social sciences. Similarly, within departments students are drawn away from harder graders and towards softer graders. Budgets go where students go! Thus grade inflation causes a *misallocation of resources* (measured in student time or in budgets.) Alex -- Dr. Alexander Tabarrok Vice President and Director of Research The Independent Institute 100 Swan Way Oakland, CA, 94621-1428 Tel. 510-632-1366, FAX: 510-568-6040 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Grade Inflation
I posted a note to this list a couple of days ago about this, I'm not sure it went through. Its been a while since I looked at this, but when I did the information that I found suggested that employers not only don't get transcripts, but they don't even ask grade average information on job applications. Does anyone know of any information to the contrary? It may be changing given some of the other things that are going on in the labor market, but a recent study by Ron Ferguson that surveyed employers about what third of the HS class their workers were drawn from had to be reworded to get the employers to guess when they didn't know because many (most) had no concrete knowledge. - - Bill Dickens William T. Dickens The Brookings Institution 1775 Massachusetts Avenue, NW Washington, DC 20036 Phone: (202) 797-6113 FAX: (202) 797-6181 E-MAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AOL IM: wtdickens >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/13/02 04:55AM >>> Has anyone done a study on this: Which matters more for employers? Someone who's got high grades and studies in a so-so school or above-median (but not so high) and studies in an ivy league? At 07:17 AM 4/10/2002 -0700, you wrote: >--- "Robert A. Book" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Isn't this what the GRE, MCAT, etc., are for? Granted, they don't > > apply to all post-graduate plans, but it's a start. > >How many employers require applicants having a BA/BS to have taken the GRE >etc. before they are considered for hiring? >If few do, then it shows the degree and grades are still a sufficient >criterion. > >Fred Foldvary > >= >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >__ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax >http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.295 / Virus Database: 159 - Release Date: 11/1/2001
Re: Grade Inflation
And also, I know maybe only a few (or none) of the people subscribing to this group is a psychologist. But how true are those "personal attributes" test that employers give to perspective employees? Those that you have to check "traits others think about me" and "traits i think i have" or something like that. Because like for example Standard Chartered requires that their management trainees do get a certain set of qualities before they start to hire them. Do anyone of you know in what percentages are the results correct like maybe 90% of those test takers that say they are calm do become good managers, etc...? At 01:13 PM 4/10/2002 -0400, you wrote: > > --- "Robert A. Book" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Isn't this what the GRE, MCAT, etc., are for? Granted, they don't > > > apply to all post-graduate plans, but it's a start. > >Fred Foldvary ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) responded: > > How many employers require applicants having a BA/BS to have taken the GRE > > etc. before they are considered for hiring? > > If few do, then it shows the degree and grades are still a sufficient > > criterion. > > >Good point. I'm sure few if any do, which raises an perhaps even more >interesting question: > >Most graduate schools are part of universities which also have >undergraduate programs, and most graduate schools require some >standardized tests. Does that mean they put less confidence in the >degrees and grades they themselves give, than the employers do? > > >There are two caveats to taking that question the way I'd like to. >First, I suspect employers use personal interviews much more than >graduate schools do; perhaps interviews produce more, or more relevant >information than a standardized test. > >Second, I wonder how the standardized testing "community" would react >to employers wanting to use existing tests for hiring purposes. >Surely there is nothing to stop job applicants from taking the GRE, >but I don't believe there is any existing mechanism for employers to >receive score reports directly from ETS. (Schools seem to want scores >from ETS, not from the applicant, probably to prevent forgery.) The >absense of such a mechanism may mean there is no demand for the >service from employers, or it could mean the suppliers refuse to >supply for some reason. > >--Robert > > > > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.295 / Virus Database: 159 - Release Date: 11/1/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.295 / Virus Database: 159 - Release Date: 11/1/2001
Re: Grade Inflation
Nice one Anton. At 07:46 PM 4/11/2002 -0700, you wrote: >Alex Tabarrok wrote: > >Yes, as I tell my children, "Son, don't worry about those grades - > > even a C student can become President one day." > >And if their hearts are set on more serious careers? > >-- >Anton Sherwood, http://www.ogre.nu/ > > > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.295 / Virus Database: 159 - Release Date: 11/1/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.295 / Virus Database: 159 - Release Date: 11/1/2001
Re: Grade Inflation
Has anyone done a study on this: Which matters more for employers? Someone who's got high grades and studies in a so-so school or above-median (but not so high) and studies in an ivy league? At 07:17 AM 4/10/2002 -0700, you wrote: >--- "Robert A. Book" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Isn't this what the GRE, MCAT, etc., are for? Granted, they don't > > apply to all post-graduate plans, but it's a start. > >How many employers require applicants having a BA/BS to have taken the GRE >etc. before they are considered for hiring? >If few do, then it shows the degree and grades are still a sufficient >criterion. > >Fred Foldvary > >= >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >__ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax >http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.295 / Virus Database: 159 - Release Date: 11/1/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.295 / Virus Database: 159 - Release Date: 11/1/2001
Re: Grade Inflation
Alex Tabarrok wrote: >Yes, as I tell my children, "Son, don't worry about those grades - > even a C student can become President one day." And if their hearts are set on more serious careers? -- Anton Sherwood, http://www.ogre.nu/
Re: Grade Inflation
Jason wrote "This could (and in my observation does) mean that non-academics jobs are looking for other characteristics that are hard to test for- good "people skills" and "leadership ability"." Yes, as I tell my children, "Son, don't worry about those grades - even a C student can become President one day." Alex -- Dr. Alexander Tabarrok Vice President and Director of Research The Independent Institute 100 Swan Way Oakland, CA, 94621-1428 Tel. 510-632-1366, FAX: 510-568-6040 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Grade Inflation
There's a very good discussion of grade inflation over time and across departments in the Winter 1991 issue of the Journal of Economic Perspectives by Sabot and Wakemann-Linn. Art Woolf Art Woolf Phone: (802) 656-4711 Vermont Council on Economic Education 219 Kalkin Hall University of Vermont email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Burlington, VT 05405 website: www.bsad.uvm.edu/vcee
Re: Grade Inflation
My two cents on this: I think that Robert Book may have hit is when he said that employers may have other attributes they are looking for that are more easily identifiable in an interview. While academic positions (as a faculty of student) are usually the ones that call for good test scores (usually along with grades), it seems that non-academic jobs, usually look at experience and your interview first then to your degree at what school, and maybe finally to grades. This could (and in my observation does) mean that non-academics jobs are looking for other characteristics that are hard to test for- good "people skills" and "leadership ability". These are better seen in an interview, from activities one participates in, and maybe even from the school you attended (the different cultures at different schools helping to predict how one will fit with the company's culture- this is in evidence at the many non-academic, and even academic, institutions that hire many employees from the same school). So while grade inflation may cause a loss of information, this loss in not particularly valueable to the places many graduates go- non-academics jobs. Where the information would be valueable- academic jobs and grad school, there are tests to equalize the applicants. Jason
Re: Grade Inflation
This discussion has been assuming that employers look at grade averages. Last time I looked into this, very very few employers requested university or high school transcripts or even asked people to report their grade averages on their applications. Asking for GREs would probably get them into trouble with the EEOC and the courts since using tests in hiring is very difficult if blacks and whites score differently on them. I believe the law still requires employers to show that using the test is a business necessity. Does anybody have any evidence that employers are requesting grade averages frequently today? That would be a very interesting result given all the discussion of upgrading of required skills. - - Bill Dickens William T. Dickens The Brookings Institution 1775 Massachusetts Avenue, NW Washington, DC 20036 Phone: (202) 797-6113 FAX: (202) 797-6181 E-MAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] AOL IM: wtdickens >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 04/10/02 01:13PM >>> > --- "Robert A. Book" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Isn't this what the GRE, MCAT, etc., are for? Granted, they don't > > apply to all post-graduate plans, but it's a start. Fred Foldvary ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) responded: > How many employers require applicants having a BA/BS to have taken the GRE > etc. before they are considered for hiring? > If few do, then it shows the degree and grades are still a sufficient > criterion. Good point. I'm sure few if any do, which raises an perhaps even more interesting question: Most graduate schools are part of universities which also have undergraduate programs, and most graduate schools require some standardized tests. Does that mean they put less confidence in the degrees and grades they themselves give, than the employers do? There are two caveats to taking that question the way I'd like to. First, I suspect employers use personal interviews much more than graduate schools do; perhaps interviews produce more, or more relevant information than a standardized test. Second, I wonder how the standardized testing "community" would react to employers wanting to use existing tests for hiring purposes. Surely there is nothing to stop job applicants from taking the GRE, but I don't believe there is any existing mechanism for employers to receive score reports directly from ETS. (Schools seem to want scores from ETS, not from the applicant, probably to prevent forgery.) The absense of such a mechanism may mean there is no demand for the service from employers, or it could mean the suppliers refuse to supply for some reason. --Robert
Re: Grade Inflation
> --- "Robert A. Book" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Isn't this what the GRE, MCAT, etc., are for? Granted, they don't > > apply to all post-graduate plans, but it's a start. Fred Foldvary ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) responded: > How many employers require applicants having a BA/BS to have taken the GRE > etc. before they are considered for hiring? > If few do, then it shows the degree and grades are still a sufficient > criterion. Good point. I'm sure few if any do, which raises an perhaps even more interesting question: Most graduate schools are part of universities which also have undergraduate programs, and most graduate schools require some standardized tests. Does that mean they put less confidence in the degrees and grades they themselves give, than the employers do? There are two caveats to taking that question the way I'd like to. First, I suspect employers use personal interviews much more than graduate schools do; perhaps interviews produce more, or more relevant information than a standardized test. Second, I wonder how the standardized testing "community" would react to employers wanting to use existing tests for hiring purposes. Surely there is nothing to stop job applicants from taking the GRE, but I don't believe there is any existing mechanism for employers to receive score reports directly from ETS. (Schools seem to want scores from ETS, not from the applicant, probably to prevent forgery.) The absense of such a mechanism may mean there is no demand for the service from employers, or it could mean the suppliers refuse to supply for some reason. --Robert
Re: Grade Inflation
(OK, this is my third attempt in three days to get this particular post through the server... --RAB) > > Since grades can't get any higher than an A, doesn't > > grade inflation merely squeeze out information > > regarding graduates as the grade scale gets compressed > > at the high end? > > You would think that smart employers would know to rate a B+ student from a > tough-grading school more favorably than an A- student from an easy-grading > school. But there are too many schools, and most employers aren't using a > national database of with statistics about each school. > Grade inflation ignorance can also be seen in the several organizations > which equate GPAs across schools and majors, by for example setting minimum > required GPAs to apply. These include a lot of jobs on and off campus and > some graduate programs. Not to mention fraternities and most honor > societies, graduation with distinction, and qualification for undergraduate > honors programs. (but I digress) I believe there is some evidence that grade inflation is not uniform across fields, at the same school. When I was an undergrad, the conventional wisdom among sutdents was that grades depended on the street where the class was held -- meaning, on the street occupied by the science and math departments and the engineering school, the average grade given was a full point below the average for the rest of the campus. I never personally saw the data for that claim, but it did somewhat reflect my personal experience, and I believe there is data out there someplace showing this is a general trend. It is worth noting that this could reflect either subject-biased grade inflation (easier grading in humanities and social sciences relative to science/math/engineering), or subject-biased content deflation -- grades might represent the same degree of mastery of the subject, but some departments (Hum/SocSci) teach easier material. In this latter case, there could still be subject-unbiased grade inflation also, of course. In a world in which grad schools and employers set minimum GPAs to apply, equating them across majors, the losers are those in the harder(-grading) majors. --Robert First Law of Work: If you can't get your work done in the first 24 hours, work nights.
Re: Grade Inflation
--- "Robert A. Book" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Isn't this what the GRE, MCAT, etc., are for? Granted, they don't > apply to all post-graduate plans, but it's a start. How many employers require applicants having a BA/BS to have taken the GRE etc. before they are considered for hiring? If few do, then it shows the degree and grades are still a sufficient criterion. Fred Foldvary = [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Re: Grade Inflation
> It seems to me that an effective remedy to grade inflation would be > standardized exams on the subjects taught, prior to graduation. There would > be, for example, a standard exam for econ majors, similar to what is done in > grad schools. If many universities used the same exams, then that would > serve as a signal of knowledge, and also reveal the grade differential > relative to test results. That, of course, is why such exams are not being > implemented. > > Fred Foldvary Isn't this what the GRE, MCAT, etc., are for? Granted, they don't apply to all post-graduate plans, but it's a start. First Law of Work: If you can't get your work done in the first 24 hours, work nights.
Re: Grade Inflation
It's a bad thing but one reason is maybe that Universities would not want to be compared to each other in terms of test scores. Tests are hardcore evidences of which school is good and which school is not. At 09:00 AM 4/9/2002 -0700, you wrote: >It seems to me that an effective remedy to grade inflation would be >standardized exams on the subjects taught, prior to graduation. There would >be, for example, a standard exam for econ majors, similar to what is done in >grad schools. If many universities used the same exams, then that would >serve as a signal of knowledge, and also reveal the grade differential >relative to test results. That, of course, is why such exams are not being >implemented. > >Fred Foldvary > >= >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >__ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax >http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.295 / Virus Database: 159 - Release Date: 11/1/2001 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.295 / Virus Database: 159 - Release Date: 11/1/2001
Re: Grade Inflation
It seems to me that an effective remedy to grade inflation would be standardized exams on the subjects taught, prior to graduation. There would be, for example, a standard exam for econ majors, similar to what is done in grad schools. If many universities used the same exams, then that would serve as a signal of knowledge, and also reveal the grade differential relative to test results. That, of course, is why such exams are not being implemented. Fred Foldvary = [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/
RE: Grade Inflation
Gustavo Lacerda: >You would think that smart employers would know to rate a B+ student from a tough-grading school more favorably than an A- student from an easy-grading school. But there are too many schools, and most employers aren't using a national database of with statistics about each school. Grade inflation ignorance can also be seen in the several organizations which equate GPAs across schools and majors, by for example setting minimum required GPAs to apply. This is a powerful argument for the old school tie. Graduates of, say, the pharmacy school at the University of Texas at Austin have, and can easily update and refine, a good sense of just what a B+ from _that_ school means. Michael Michael E. Etchison Texas Wholesale Power Report MLE Consulting www.mleconsulting.com 1423 Jackson Road Kerrville, TX 78028 830) 895-4005
Re: Grade Inflation
> Since grades can't get any higher than an A, doesn't > grade inflation merely squeeze out information > regarding graduates as the grade scale gets compressed > at the high end? Additionally, since it is unlikely > -jsh I'll look this up on ERIC (the education research data base) to see if what's been done. But remember that grades aren't *that* valuable as signals on the labor market because college graduates have at least two other fairly strong signals: majors and what college they got into. Fabio
Re: Grade Inflation
> > For universities that take the long view, better > grades mean better job > opportunities for graduates. Better-paid graduates > mean better endowments > in the future. For schools that have seen their > 300th birthday (i.e., > Harvard), it's not so unreasonable to assume such a > precognitive scope. > Since grades can't get any higher than an A, doesn't grade inflation merely squeeze out information regarding graduates as the grade scale gets compressed at the high end? Additionally, since it is unlikely that all schools and instructors would inflate on a similar scale, don't these premises imply that hiring decisions will be more risky in the future? After all, Harvard may have been around for 300 years, but grade inflation is relatively recent, so it may be premature to claim that grade inflation is a wise long-run decision. -jsh p.s. Honesty requires me to inform you that I ripped off at least one of my points from the Economist. Here's the article address (07 March 2002): www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=S%27%29H%2C%2EPA%2B%27%200%20%5C%0A __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Re: Grade Inflation
(insert caveat about theorizing without data) Now then, a big selling point for competitive universities is retention rate - how many incoming freshmen they keep on to graduate at the same school. Obviously, good grades are a key factor in retaining students. For universities that take the long view, better grades mean better job opportunities for graduates. Better-paid graduates mean better endowments in the future. For schools that have seen their 300th birthday (i.e., Harvard), it's not so unreasonable to assume such a precognitive scope. -JP >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Grade Inflation >Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 20:20:51 EDT > >Is grade inflation worse at higher priced colleges? I can imagine that if >a >student flunks out at a higher priced college, that it costs that school >more >in revenue and that it might be hard to attract students if they have to >pay >alot of money and then work hard to get good grades. Has any research been >done on this? > >Also, over time has the number of slots in colleges and universities >available been rising relative to the number of students applying to >college? > If that were the case, would schools feel pressure to inflate grades if >they >are unwilling to cut price? > >Cyril Morong _ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
Grade Inflation
Is grade inflation worse at higher priced colleges? I can imagine that if a student flunks out at a higher priced college, that it costs that school more in revenue and that it might be hard to attract students if they have to pay alot of money and then work hard to get good grades. Has any research been done on this? Also, over time has the number of slots in colleges and universities available been rising relative to the number of students applying to college? If that were the case, would schools feel pressure to inflate grades if they are unwilling to cut price? Cyril Morong
