Re: Study disovers Swedes are less well-off than American blacks
I have little doubt that the heart of the study reaches a correct mathematical conclusion--that the average Swede has a lower income than the average American black. It does, however, contain a few myths I'd like to briefly address below. In a message dated 12/29/02 10:23:43 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [snip] Does anyone on the list have any comments about this story? Despite the fact that the left-liberal responses I read to this article were devoid of substance, I still think there must be more to the story than this article says. Do you all think it is better to be black in America or white in Sweden (and why, of course)? Or does the answer all depend on some other factor? ~Alypius Assuming that the study got its numbers right, one would be better of in a material sense--food, clothing, shelter, medical care, idle entertainment--as an average black in America rather than as an average Swede. People don't necessarily maximize income, especially not measureable income; they maximize utility. Is it better to be a black in America? I don't know, and probably neither does anyone else. I'd venture a guess that an awful lot of American blacks would say otherwise, though I'm not sure. It's easy to image that if only I were (white, male, middle-class, rich, pretty, thin, this, that, or the other thing that I'm not) I'd be much better off. Even if they would say otherwise it doesn't mean that it's correct since they don't know what it's like to be a Swede any more than a Swede knows what it's like to be a black American. Most economists tend to focus on incomes as a proxy for utility, but I've seen studies which conclude that people with higher incomes don't feel any happier. Personally I'd rather have the problems of high income than those of low income--but in truth we're comparing here high income to higher income. [snip] Weak growth means that Sweden has lost greatly in prosperity compared with the United States, HUI's president, Fredrik Bergstrom, and chief economist, Robert Gidehag, said. This is misleading, as are most economic stories of failure and success. Relative failure means only that your ego gets wounded. As the next line indicates, the average Swede has a 20% higher real income today than he or she did 20 years ago. I'd take a 20% real increase in my income any day. Of course I'd rather have the 56% increase, but both represent successes. Ind International Monetary Fund data from 2001 show that U.S. GDP per capita in dollar terms was 56 percent higher than in Sweden, while in 1980, Swedish GDP per capita was 20 percent higher. The median income of African American households was about 70 percent of the median for all U.S. households, while Swedish households earned 68 percent of the overall U.S. median level. This means that Swedes stood below groups, which, in the Swedish debate, are usually regarded as poor and losers in the American economy, Bergstrom and Gidehag said. Again it's not a race to some finish line, winner-take-all contest. It's not a contest at all. Both blacks Americans and Swedes win by having higher incomes. What this does say is that in America we have a relatively distorted nothing of what it means to be poor. By long-term historical standards, even poor Americans are fantastically wealthy. Look at the poorest nations of the world to see how people have lived for most of human history. That's poverty. Even by our own recent standards, poor people are rich: back in the 1990s I saw a study which reported that the average welfare recipient in America consumed more in constant dollars than the average middle income American in 1955. And that average income American in 1955 had a real income exceptionally high not only by long-term human standards, but simply by standards of the world in 1955. If the trend persists, things that are commonplace in the United States will be regarded as the utmost luxury in Sweden, the authors said. We are not quite there yet, but the trend is clear. Well that may come to pass, but as I understand it, a vastly larger share of Americans than Europeans own their own homes, so the commonplace in the US, luxury in Europe has been going on for some time. I understand that the socialized medical systems of many European countries also don't provide many of the treatments--like kidney dialysis or heart-bypass surgery--that Americans routinely get. Perhaps, if real Swedish incomes continue to grow, even there socialized medical system will provide commonly what the US system has provided commonly for decades. Of course by then the US system will probably be providing newer services that the Swedish economy won't--it's better, all other things held constant, to have a really high income than a merely high income. There's no doubt that we'd all rather have a $100 income than a $70 come or a $68 income, holding all other factors constant. But the
Re: Study disovers Swedes are less well-off than American blacks
I am somewhat familiar with the mentioned study, having written a piece on it a while back (I also have the study on pdf at work somewhere although in Swedish I am afraid. I shall check it on Monday) Anyway, I will venture a few comments. On your question: Do you (all) think it is better to be black in America or white in Sweden (and why, of course)?, I would say: YES! at least in terms of economic opportunities. Unless the study is lying (which I believe it is not), the median black American household DOES have higher purchasing power than the median Swedish (white AND non- white, mind you) household. The difference, however, is not very large. Another thing is, that this is MEDIAN households we are talking about, and so the study says nothing of the spread of income. Without knowing this for certain I would venture that the difference of before tax income among black Americans is far greater than the similar difference among Swedes. This difference is of course increased when comparing after tax income, since the Swedish welfare state is vastly more redistributive than the American (indeed, this is the reason for the relative slow economic growth in Sweden). Thus, a risk-aversive person may yet prefer to have been born a Swede rather than a black American. That is: a risk-aversive AND egoistic person since, as the study shows, ALL Americans are getting increasingly richer than Swedes, indicating that a black American today can pretty much rest assured that his / her children will grow up to be richer than the average Swede. Another thing to keep in mind is that the study is comparing median income BEFORE taxes, rather than after taxes / welfare transfers (both in kind and money). This of course raises the question whether the median household receives more or less from this taxes v. welfare exchange (and whether the median American black household receives more or less than the median Swedish household). This is to some degree an ideological question. I for my part, have no doubt that the answer is that the welfare states in both Sweden AND America are so large as to make the median households in both countries worse off after the tax v. welfare exchange and consequently making the Swedish household even worse off relatively than before taxes. Jacob Braestrup Danish Taxpayers Association This is a multi-part message in MIME format. This article can be found at several sites on the net. This link is to a left-wing site where the feedback was almost uniformly negative, but, as so often in leftist critiques, factually empty. Does anyone on the list have any comments about this story? Despite the fact that the left-liberal responses I read to this article were devoid of substance, I still think there must be more to the story than this article says. Do you all think it is better to be black in America or white in Sweden (and why, of course)? Or does the answer all depend on some other factor? ~Alypius http://pub176.ezboard.com/frepnetfrm131.showMessage? topicID=141.topic Study disovers Swedes are less well-off than American blacks - --- Study discovers Swedes are less well-off than the poorest Americans Reuters via Haaretz | 5/4/2002 | Reuters Posted on 5/4/02 3:41 PM Pacific by l33t STOCKHOLM - Swedes, usually perceived in Europe as a comfortable, middle class lot, are poorer than African Americans, the most economically-deprived group in the United States, a Swedish study showed yesterday. The study by a retail trade lobby, published in the liberal Dagens Nyheter newspaper 19 weeks before the next general election, echoed the center-right opposition's criticism of the weak state of Sweden's economy, following decades of almost uninterrupted Social Democratic rule. The Swedish Research Institute of Trade (HUI) said it had compared official U.S. and Swedish statistics on household income, as well as gross domestic product, private consumption and retail spending per capita between 1980 and 1999. Using fixed prices and purchasing power parity adjusted data, the median household income in Sweden at the end of the 1990s was the equivalent of $26,800, compared with a median of $39,400 for U.S. households, HUI's study showed. Weak growth means that Sweden has lost greatly in prosperity compared with the United States, HUI's president, Fredrik Bergstrom, and chief economist, Robert Gidehag, said. International Monetary Fund data from 2001 show that U.S. GDP per capita in dollar terms was 56 percent higher than in Sweden, while in 1980, Swedish GDP per capita was 20 percent higher. Black people, who have the lowest income in the United States, now have a higher standard of living than an ordinary Swedish household, the HUI economists said. If Sweden were a U.S. state, it would be the poorest, measured
Study disovers Swedes are less well-off than American blacks
This article can be found at several sites on the net. This link is to a left-wing site where the feedback was almost uniformly negative, but, as so often in leftist critiques, factually empty.Does anyone on the list have any comments about this story?Despite the fact that the left-liberal responses I read to this article were devoid of substance, I still think theremust be more to the story than this article says. Do you all think it is better to be black in America or white in Sweden (and why, of course)? Or doesthe answerall depend on some other factor? ~Alypius http://pub176.ezboard.com/frepnetfrm131.showMessage?topicID=141.topic Study disovers Swedes are less well-off than American blacks Study discovers Swedes are less well-off than the poorest AmericansReuters via Haaretz | 5/4/2002 | ReutersPosted on 5/4/02 3:41 PM Pacific by l33tSTOCKHOLM - Swedes, usually perceived in Europe as a comfortable, middle class lot, are poorer than African Americans, the most economically-deprived group in the United States, a Swedish study showed yesterday.The study by a retail trade lobby, published in the liberal Dagens Nyheter newspaper 19 weeks before the next general election, echoed the center-right opposition's criticism of the weak state of Sweden's economy, following decades of almost uninterrupted Social Democratic rule.The Swedish Research Institute of Trade (HUI) said it had compared official U.S. and Swedish statistics on household income, as well as gross domestic product, private consumption and retail spending per capita between 1980 and 1999.Using fixed prices and purchasing power parity adjusted data, the median household income in Sweden at the end of the 1990s was the equivalent of $26,800, compared with a median of $39,400 for U.S. households, HUI's study showed."Weak growth means that Sweden has lost greatly in prosperity compared with the United States," HUI's president, Fredrik Bergstrom, and chief economist, Robert Gidehag, said.International Monetary Fund data from 2001 show that U.S. GDP per capita in dollar terms was 56 percent higher than in Sweden, while in 1980, Swedish GDP per capita was 20 percent higher."Black people, who have the lowest income in the United States, now have a higher standard of living than an ordinary Swedish household," the HUI economists said.If Sweden were a U.S. state, it would be the poorest, measured by household gross income before taxes, Bergstrom and Gidehag said.They said they had chosen that measure for their comparison to get around the differences in taxation and welfare structures. Capital gains such as income from securities were not included.The median income of African American households was about 70 percent of the median for all U.S. households, while Swedish households earned 68 percent of the overall U.S. median level.This means that Swedes stood "below groups, which, in the Swedish debate, are usually regarded as poor and losers in the American economy," Bergstrom and Gidehag said.Between 1980 and 1999, the gross income of Sweden's poorest households increased by just over 6 percent, while the poorest in the United States enjoyed a three times higher increase, HUI said.If the trend persists, "things that are commonplace in the United States will be regarded as the utmost luxury in Sweden," the authors said. "We are not quite there yet, but the trend is clear."According to HUI figures, during the period 1998-1999, U.S. GDP per capita was 40 percent higher than in Sweden, while U.S. private consumption and retail sales per capita exceeded Swedish levels by more than 80 percent.The HUI economists attributed the much bigger difference in consumption and sales mainly to the fact that U.S. households pay themselves for education and health care, services that are tax-financed and come for free or at low user charges in Sweden.According to recent opinion polls Sweden's Social Democrats are comfortably ahead of the center-right opposition in the run-up to the September 15 elections.