Re: Is True Skip-Sequential Processing Possible with RECFM=FB,DSORG=PS?

2023-11-13 Thread Seymour J Metz
What is a physical block? Even without taking into accounnt that contemporary DASD subsystems are cached, on old CKD DASD you could read any of count, key and data without reading the others. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי

Re: Is True Skip-Sequential Processing Possible with RECFM=FB,DSORG=PS?

2023-11-13 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On 11/13/23 15:59:45, Bob Raicer wrote: There have been a few posts in this thread that more or less stated that only complete physical blocks could be read into storage from a device. This is not strictly true.> We don't know the OP's objective: performance, security, or other. -- gil

Re: Is True Skip-Sequential Processing Possible with RECFM=FB,DSORG=PS?

2023-11-13 Thread Bob Raicer
There have been a few posts in this thread that more or less stated that only complete physical blocks could be read into storage from a device. This is not strictly true. There is the obvious case of truncation, where the number of bytes the device has been requested to transfer is less than

Re: Is True Skip-Sequential Processing Possible with RECFM=FB,DSORG=PS?

2023-11-13 Thread Ed Jaffe
On 11/13/2023 7:23 AM, Schmitt, Michael wrote: As long no one ever uses DISP=MOD ...or checkpoints. Checkpoints can cause short blocks to be written. What about CLOSE TYPE=T? Would that flush the current block? -- Phoenix Software International Edward E. Jaffe 831 Parkview Drive North El

Re: Is True Skip-Sequential Processing Possible with RECFM=FB,DSORG=PS?

2023-11-13 Thread Seymour J Metz
At one time there was a component called Actual Block Processor that was used both by VSAM and paging, and the paging data sets were CI format. I have no idea how much of that, if any, remains in z/OS, but essentially my question was whether pages were now stored in 4 KiB physical records.

Re: Is True Skip-Sequential Processing Possible with RECFM=FB,DSORG=PS?

2023-11-13 Thread Bob Raicer
A PDSE is essentially a form of VSAM Linear, where the physical data set is a collection of 4K-byte blocks.  It does not have the notion of CA's and CI's like other VSAM data sets.  The notion of BLKSIZE is synthesized and mapped onto the internal PDSE structures; the BLKSIZE value is not the

Re: Is True Skip-Sequential Processing Possible with RECFM=FB,DSORG=PS?

2023-11-13 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On 11/13/23 11:54:07, Schmitt, Michael wrote: That I don't know. I've only dealt with GSAM checkpoints (which may not support RECFM=VBS). And one other: checkpoints in z/OS FTP. My *guess* is that since a checkpoint has to flush the buffers to disk before you fill up the block, even VBS would

Re: Is True Skip-Sequential Processing Possible with RECFM=FB,DSORG=PS?

2023-11-13 Thread Schmitt, Michael
That I don't know. I've only dealt with GSAM checkpoints (which may not support RECFM=VBS). And one other: checkpoints in z/OS FTP. My *guess* is that since a checkpoint has to flush the buffers to disk before you fill up the block, even VBS would have a short block. -Original Message-

Re: Is True Skip-Sequential Processing Possible with RECFM=FB,DSORG=PS?

2023-11-13 Thread Steve Smith
Same as above. On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 1:50 PM Paul Gilmartin < 0014e0e4a59b-dmarc-requ...@listserv.uga.edu> wrote: > On 11/13/23 08:23:44, Schmitt, Michael wrote: > >>> As long no one ever uses DISP=MOD > > > > ...or checkpoints. Checkpoints can cause short blocks to be written. > > > > (My

Re: Is True Skip-Sequential Processing Possible with RECFM=FB,DSORG=PS?

2023-11-13 Thread Steve Smith
While the original question isn't really about assembler, it is at least about programming. This tangent has nothing to do with either... if you want uninformed speculation on random topics, that's what IBM-MAIN is for. sas On Mon, Nov 13, 2023 at 9:48 AM Seymour J Metz wrote: > I believe

Re: Is True Skip-Sequential Processing Possible with RECFM=FB,DSORG=PS?

2023-11-13 Thread Paul Gilmartin
On 11/13/23 08:23:44, Schmitt, Michael wrote: As long no one ever uses DISP=MOD ...or checkpoints. Checkpoints can cause short blocks to be written. (My knowledge is with IMS/DB GSAM checkpoints.) How does checkpoint interact with RECFM=VBS? -- gil

Re: Is True Skip-Sequential Processing Possible with RECFM=FB,DSORG=PS?

2023-11-13 Thread Schmitt, Michael
>> As long no one ever uses DISP=MOD ...or checkpoints. Checkpoints can cause short blocks to be written. (My knowledge is with IMS/DB GSAM checkpoints.) -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Assembler List On Behalf Of Jon Perryman Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2023 5:18 PM To:

Re: Is True Skip-Sequential Processing Possible with RECFM=FB,DSORG=PS?

2023-11-13 Thread Seymour J Metz
I believe that the OP wanted a solution for BSAM. If VSAM is an option then it's a nobrainer. Does anybody know whether CI size = block size for PDSE and zFS (linear) data sets? VSAM used to use multiple blocks for a CI. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 עַם

Re: Is True Skip-Sequential Processing Possible with RECFM=FB,DSORG=PS?

2023-11-13 Thread Jonathan Scott
Someone mentioned the CMS file system in a recent post. The CMS file system uses a hierarchical block map system for each file, which gives very efficient direct access by record number (both for fixed-length and varying-length records) avoiding the need to read any previous file data blocks