Re: [asterisk-users] 10/100 voip phones and gigabit connection
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 19:10 -0700, Andrew Hakman wrote: 2 cables is definitely the best, followed by a cheap gig switch at each desk. GB lan for interconnecting computers would be optimal. Seperate cabling for voip: ok, but i wouldn't put a switch at every desktop: A 100MB switch with power-over-ethernet can be put on a UPS. During my last blackout i found out that all but my switches were on the UPS... bummer! And i presume that Gb-p.o.e are even more expensive than 100Mb-p.o.e. hw -- _ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] 10/100 voip phones and gigabit connection
Jeff LaCoursiere wrote: On Fri, 15 Jan 2010, Hans Witvliet wrote: If you connect your pc with GB-lan card to an dual-ported ip-phone, you and up with an 100Mbps lan connection to your pc. Only way to avoid that, is to insert a cheap second lan-card in your pc, and connect your phone to the second lan, so your pc will act as an switch, instead of your phone... I'm curious - how have you managed to connect a second LAN card and have it bridge your (presumably onboard) ethernet? Does Windows have such capability? Right click on the interface and choose bridge connections. But I guess the OP was running XUbuntu, and though relatively complicated I guess you could get it to do that. Not all that complicated. IIRC it's just. brctl addbr br0 brctl addif eth0 brctl addif eth1 Then configure br0 as your interface. j -- _ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] 10/100 voip phones and gigabit connection
Jeff LaCoursiere skrev: On Fri, 15 Jan 2010, Hans Witvliet wrote: If you connect your pc with GB-lan card to an dual-ported ip-phone, you and up with an 100Mbps lan connection to your pc. Only way to avoid that, is to insert a cheap second lan-card in your pc, and connect your phone to the second lan, so your pc will act as an switch, instead of your phone... I'm curious - how have you managed to connect a second LAN card and have it bridge your (presumably onboard) ethernet? Does Windows have such capability? But I guess the OP was running XUbuntu, and though relatively complicated I guess you could get it to do that. j On my laptop I just used the controlpanel - network connections , marked wireless and build-in card, rightclicked and selected bridge networks. Then I plugged my ip-phone in the laptop, and my phone was connected via wlan. So at least in Vista it's built in. Leif -- _ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] 10/100 voip phones and gigabit connection
Hans Witvliet skrev: During my last blackout i found out that all but my switches were on the UPS... bummer! Coincidentially, in danish, oops is spelled ups. It also gives funny images when your packages are delivered by a company called Oops... Leif -- _ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] 10/100 voip phones and gigabit connection
On 01/15/10 17:54, randall wrote: hi all, i noticed that a lot of VOIP phones have a double network interface allowing you to use only 1 LAN cable for both the phone and your desktop, a really nice feature that can save a lot of cable, but most are 10/100 connections while i have a gigabit network. Off course there are phones available with a Gigabit connection but these are at least 3 to 4 times as expensive. another option would be to have both desktop and voip phone each a dedicated line ( basically having 2 seperate networks ), already have these in place from the old/current situation but i was hoping to clear some cables. does anybody know of another solution to this or is my conclusion above simply all the choice there is? You've hit the nail on the head. A VoIP phone with two network ports is probably best thought of as a two port switch. Like any switch, if you connect a gigabit NIC to a 10/100 switch, you'll end up with a 100 megabit connection. The only way to get a gigabit connection to your PC is via a phone that has gigabit ports, or have a separate cable back to the switch. Best practice is usually to segregate phone and PC networks anyway - it helps avoid degradation of VoIP quality when the LAN becomes heavily loaded. -- _ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] 10/100 voip phones and gigabit connection
On 01/15/2010 12:41 PM, Rob Hillis wrote: On 01/15/10 17:54, randall wrote: hi all, i noticed that a lot of VOIP phones have a double network interface allowing you to use only 1 LAN cable for both the phone and your desktop, a really nice feature that can save a lot of cable, but most are 10/100 connections while i have a gigabit network. Off course there are phones available with a Gigabit connection but these are at least 3 to 4 times as expensive. another option would be to have both desktop and voip phone each a dedicated line ( basically having 2 seperate networks ), already have these in place from the old/current situation but i was hoping to clear some cables. does anybody know of another solution to this or is my conclusion above simply all the choice there is? You've hit the nail on the head. A VoIP phone with two network ports is probably best thought of as a two port switch. Like any switch, if you connect a gigabit NIC to a 10/100 switch, you'll end up with a 100 megabit connection. The only way to get a gigabit connection to your PC is via a phone that has gigabit ports, or have a separate cable back to the switch. Best practice is usually to segregate phone and PC networks anyway - it helps avoid degradation of VoIP quality when the LAN becomes heavily loaded. i'll folow the best practice then in that case. thanks for the confirmation Rob, Randall -- _ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] 10/100 voip phones and gigabit connection
- Original Message - From: randall To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 7:54 AM Subject: [asterisk-users] 10/100 voip phones and gigabit connection hi all, just subscribed to the list and first mail, nice to be here. Hopefully i'm in the right place for this question since i'm planning a little VOIP implementation at the moment and ran in to something while going through the shopping list. i noticed that a lot of VOIP phones have a double network interface allowing you to use only 1 LAN cable for both the phone and your desktop, a really nice feature that can save a lot of cable, but most are 10/100 connections while i have a gigabit network. Off course there are phones available with a Gigabit connection but these are at least 3 to 4 times as expensive. In a pinch, the cheapest 1Gbit switch I could find is 17 Eur with 5 ports. Leif -- _ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] 10/100 voip phones and gigabit connection
On 01/15/2010 02:00 PM, Leif Neland wrote: - Original Message - *From:* randall mailto:rand...@songshu.org *To:* asterisk-users@lists.digium.com mailto:asterisk-users@lists.digium.com *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 7:54 AM *Subject:* [asterisk-users] 10/100 voip phones and gigabit connection hi all, just subscribed to the list and first mail, nice to be here. Hopefully i'm in the right place for this question since i'm planning a little VOIP implementation at the moment and ran in to something while going through the shopping list. i noticed that a lot of VOIP phones have a double network interface allowing you to use only 1 LAN cable for both the phone and your desktop, a really nice feature that can save a lot of cable, but most are 10/100 connections while i have a gigabit network. Off course there are phones available with a Gigabit connection but these are at least 3 to 4 times as expensive. In a pinch, the cheapest 1Gbit switch I could find is 17 Eur with 5 ports. Leif its not the network switch that i'm worried about, its the build in switch of the phones with the double network card -- _ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] 10/100 voip phones and gigabit connection
- Original Message - From: randall To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 2:11 PM Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] 10/100 voip phones and gigabit connection On 01/15/2010 02:00 PM, Leif Neland wrote: - Original Message - From: randall To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 7:54 AM Subject: [asterisk-users] 10/100 voip phones and gigabit connection list. i noticed that a lot of VOIP phones have a double network interface allowing you to use only 1 LAN cable for both the phone and your desktop, a really nice feature that can save a lot of cable, but most are 10/100 connections while i have a gigabit network. Off course there are phones available with a Gigabit connection but these are at least 3 to 4 times as expensive. In a pinch, the cheapest 1Gbit switch I could find is 17 Eur with 5 ports. Leif its not the network switch that i'm worried about, its the build in switch of the phones with the double network card Sure. My point was just that IF you only got one connection in the wall, its cheaper to get a switch than getting a phone with dual 1Gbit ports. Leif -- _ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] 10/100 voip phones and gigabit connection
On 01/15/2010 02:19 PM, Leif Neland wrote: - Original Message - *From:* randall mailto:rand...@songshu.org *To:* asterisk-users@lists.digium.com mailto:asterisk-users@lists.digium.com *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 2:11 PM *Subject:* Re: [asterisk-users] 10/100 voip phones and gigabit connection On 01/15/2010 02:00 PM, Leif Neland wrote: - Original Message - *From:* randall mailto:rand...@songshu.org *To:* asterisk-users@lists.digium.com mailto:asterisk-users@lists.digium.com *Sent:* Friday, January 15, 2010 7:54 AM *Subject:* [asterisk-users] 10/100 voip phones and gigabit connection list. i noticed that a lot of VOIP phones have a double network interface allowing you to use only 1 LAN cable for both the phone and your desktop, a really nice feature that can save a lot of cable, but most are 10/100 connections while i have a gigabit network. Off course there are phones available with a Gigabit connection but these are at least 3 to 4 times as expensive. In a pinch, the cheapest 1Gbit switch I could find is 17 Eur with 5 ports. Leif its not the network switch that i'm worried about, its the build in switch of the phones with the double network card Sure. My point was just that IF you only got one connection in the wall, its cheaper to get a switch than getting a phone with dual 1Gbit ports. Leif OK, point taken. but i have 6xisdn2 and already 2x24 gigabit switches (will need to replace one with a PoE version ) these connections include both desktops and current phones. i was just hoping to cut back the amount of cabling with 50%, and when i found out that most phones with 10/100/1000 connection cost about 250,- euro's a piece instead of 90,- for a decent version with 10/100 it was a real bummer, it would mean about doubling my budget. -- _ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] 10/100 voip phones and gigabit connection
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010, randall wrote: Sure. My point was just that IF you only got one connection in the wall, its cheaper to get a switch than getting a phone with dual 1Gbit ports. Leif OK, point taken. but i have 6xisdn2 and already 2x24 gigabit switches (will need to replace one with a PoE version ) these connections include both desktops and current phones. i was just hoping to cut back the amount of cabling with 50%, and when i found out that most phones with 10/100/1000 connection cost about 250,- euro's a piece instead of 90,- for a decent version with 10/100 it was a real bummer, it would mean about doubling my budget. I'm not sure you get it - he is saying you can eliminate the extra cable run to the desk, and place a small 5 port gigabit switch under the desk and drive both your PC and the phone from it. Total cost per desk - 90 + 17 euros. Significantly less than 250 euros for a dual gigabit port phone. No change to your switching infrastructure in your machine room. j -- _ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] 10/100 voip phones and gigabit connection
On 01/15/2010 02:54 PM, Jeff LaCoursiere wrote: On Fri, 15 Jan 2010, randall wrote: Sure. My point was just that IF you only got one connection in the wall, its cheaper to get a switch than getting a phone with dual 1Gbit ports. Leif OK, point taken. but i have 6xisdn2 and already 2x24 gigabit switches (will need to replace one with a PoE version ) these connections include both desktops and current phones. i was just hoping to cut back the amount of cabling with 50%, and when i found out that most phones with 10/100/1000 connection cost about 250,- euro's a piece instead of 90,- for a decent version with 10/100 it was a real bummer, it would mean about doubling my budget. I'm not sure you get it - he is saying you can eliminate the extra cable run to the desk, and place a small 5 port gigabit switch under the desk and drive both your PC and the phone from it. Total cost per desk - 90 + 17 euros. Significantly less than 250 euros for a dual gigabit port phone. No change to your switching infrastructure in your machine room. j i did get it, its a good idea itself and i considered doing this a few years back, but as you can read from my reply i already have the separate cabling lying around and my old phones that i need to replace are plugged in there. Since i have these already it would mean adding extra switches and untangling the huge amounts of cluttered wires under the desks, and i'm not sure if thats worth the trouble since it usually is a little dusty there and the ladies in the office always tend to get a little nervous when i stay down there too long ;) -- _ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] 10/100 voip phones and gigabit connection
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 1:54 AM, randall rand...@songshu.org wrote: does anybody know of another solution to this or is my conclusion above simply all the choice there is? So let me get this straight. You're planning on buying multiple Gigabit, PoE switches, and you're quibbling over the price of running parallel data cable? The gigabit PoE switches are not cheap, at least if you're buying enterprise switches that actually deliver real gigabit, with full cross-sectional bandwidth. The cable isn't very much money, and if you double-wire now, you're ready when you have twice as many employees in the same space. Next, you don't say what this office is like, but I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Most people in an office rarely spike to a full 100Mbit connection. Do some bandwidth monitoring on your network and you'll discover that. A gigabit ethernet phone is a nice thing to have, but it's more a marketing thing than an actual necessity. Anybody that can afford a gigabit ethernet switching phone and true gigabit ethernet PoE backend can afford a second wire to every desk. Please let me know the use case if you find people can't be happy with a 100Mbit connection for the typical Windoze office environment. -- _ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] 10/100 voip phones and gigabit connection
On 01/15/2010 05:01 PM, David Backeberg wrote: On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 1:54 AM, randallrand...@songshu.org wrote: does anybody know of another solution to this or is my conclusion above simply all the choice there is? So let me get this straight. You're planning on buying multiple Gigabit, PoE switches, no, only 1 would be enough, think i will get this one in the link for the phones seperately http://www.salland.eu/product/350730 and you're quibbling over the price yes, i like to quibble over price, i'm dutch ;) The gigabit PoE switches are not cheap, i noticed at least if you're buying enterprise switches that actually deliver real gigabit, with full cross-sectional bandwidth. The cable isn't very much money, and if you double-wire now, you're ready when you have twice as many employees in the same space. i already have 3 cat5e wires running to each workplace, at the moment 2 are occupied with respectively 1 for a desktop and 1 for the old phone Next, you don't say what this office is like, but I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Most people in an office rarely spike to a full 100Mbit connection. Do some bandwidth monitoring on your network and you'll discover that. we use a lot of email which is IMAP based, for normal text like this email it will not be a problem but we are send huge picture attachments, when using 100mbit it can get real sluggish at times especially when you are in a hurry to forward them, plus i like to have /home directories mounted on the server. a little extra never hurts. A gigabit ethernet phone is a nice thing to have, but it's more a marketing thing than an actual necessity. i don't care for the phone to have gigabit connection, its about the desktops not losing gigabit connection Anybody that can afford a gigabit ethernet switching phone and true gigabit ethernet PoE backend can afford a second wire to every desk. its not the wires at the desk i wanted to get rid off, i was hoping to use less in the server room, from the patch panel to the switch. Please let me know the use case if you find people can't be happy with a 100Mbit connection for the typical Windoze office environment. windoze? people still use that? ;) we mostley have Xubuntu based desktops running here, not that it matters or is absolutely necessary to have, but its a terrible thing to loose if you are used to it, also i use the LAN here sometimes for cluster testing. -- _ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] 10/100 voip phones and gigabit connection
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 14:11 +0100, randall wrote: its not the network switch that i'm worried about, its the build in switch of the phones with the double network card -- Hi, Don't think you'll find phone's with an internally gbit switch. As for voip it is not needed. If you connect your pc with GB-lan card to an dual-ported ip-phone, you and up with an 100Mbps lan connection to your pc. Only way to avoid that, is to insert a cheap second lan-card in your pc, and connect your phone to the second lan, so your pc will act as an switch, instead of your phone... hw -- _ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] 10/100 voip phones and gigabit connection
If the phone is first, then it slightly limits the PC and rebooting the phone causes loss of contact with the PC. If the PC is first you have to have dual ports on it (a few bucks of hardware, plus configuration costs), then rebooting the PC causes the phone to loose contact with the world. Not good if you are on the phone and need to reboot. Two separate feeds would work best, but cost more. Dual wall jacks with green-PC and blue-Phone jacks could then be used. The phone will be on the desk, the PC may be under it. Two jacks, two cables. If there were a standard for two Ethernet connections in a cable... that could work, but might interfere with Power Over Ethernet. I wouldn't want to be like Bill Gates saying 640K memory is enough for anyone circa-197?, but isn't two 100 meg connections enough for any single desk? The phone doesn't really need more than 10 meg. An advantage of the separate net for the phone, is that it would make POE easy for the phones, and eliminate a lot of wall warts under every desk. Plug in the phone and it works. YMMV. Cary Fitch -- _ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] 10/100 voip phones and gigabit connection
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010, Hans Witvliet wrote: If you connect your pc with GB-lan card to an dual-ported ip-phone, you and up with an 100Mbps lan connection to your pc. Only way to avoid that, is to insert a cheap second lan-card in your pc, and connect your phone to the second lan, so your pc will act as an switch, instead of your phone... I'm curious - how have you managed to connect a second LAN card and have it bridge your (presumably onboard) ethernet? Does Windows have such capability? But I guess the OP was running XUbuntu, and though relatively complicated I guess you could get it to do that. j -- _ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] 10/100 voip phones and gigabit connection
Windows, yes, but used to be through 3rd party software. Doubt this has changed as Windows has no focus on any useful network anything. Linux, yes, and it's definitely not complicated. Probably take 2 minutes to setup if you already had bridge utils installed, maybe 5 if you had to install the package first. Regardless, I would say this wouldn't be the best solution for the reasons someone already mentioned - you form some dependency between the phone and the PC. 2 cables is definitely the best, followed by a cheap gig switch at each desk. Also, someone was mentioning if you could run 2 ethernet connections through one cable. This works with 10/100 (as only 2 pairs are used, so you can wire 2 pairs to one jack, and the other 2 pairs in the cat5 to the other jack), but doesn't work with gigabit, as it uses all 4 pairs. Even if you just consider 10/100, this is a nifty hack in a pinch, but I seriously doubt anyone does this in a professional install. Cable isn't all that expensive when it comes right down to it. Andrew On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Jeff LaCoursiere j...@jeff.net wrote: On Fri, 15 Jan 2010, Hans Witvliet wrote: If you connect your pc with GB-lan card to an dual-ported ip-phone, you and up with an 100Mbps lan connection to your pc. Only way to avoid that, is to insert a cheap second lan-card in your pc, and connect your phone to the second lan, so your pc will act as an switch, instead of your phone... I'm curious - how have you managed to connect a second LAN card and have it bridge your (presumably onboard) ethernet? Does Windows have such capability? But I guess the OP was running XUbuntu, and though relatively complicated I guess you could get it to do that. j -- _ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- _ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[asterisk-users] 10/100 voip phones and gigabit connection
hi all, just subscribed to the list and first mail, nice to be here. Hopefully i'm in the right place for this question since i'm planning a little VOIP implementation at the moment and ran in to something while going through the shopping list. i noticed that a lot of VOIP phones have a double network interface allowing you to use only 1 LAN cable for both the phone and your desktop, a really nice feature that can save a lot of cable, but most are 10/100 connections while i have a gigabit network. Off course there are phones available with a Gigabit connection but these are at least 3 to 4 times as expensive. another option would be to have both desktop and voip phone each a dedicated line ( basically having 2 seperate networks ), already have these in place from the old/current situation but i was hoping to clear some cables. does anybody know of another solution to this or is my conclusion above simply all the choice there is? Much obliged, Randall -- _ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
