Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
Sorry for causing this war. It's just, if everyone sent private messages:- a) there would be no point of the mailing list b) our mailboxes would fill up in minutes, leaving no space of our business emails. Dan -Original Message- From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of C. Savinovich Sent: 13 November 2009 08:02 To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion' Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan How do you know a good soccer player when you see one? If you are a good scout, just by his body language. Just by seeing him how he walks and positions himself on a field. By the time he touches the ball, he is either eliminated from my list of prospects or he is marked as good to be considered. How do you know a good technical person when you see one? Because irrespective of wherever he/she is from, regardless of his language, social status, and even upbringing, he KNOWS WHAT GOOGLE IS. The desire to investigate, research, and READ must be born with him the same day he is born. There is a saying that goes you can't tech a man anything, you can only help him find himself. In this case, this man has been attentively helped, and his questions have been duly answered more than once in this forum. He has been told in no uncertain terms to SEARCH IN GOOGLE... That is the answer, based in the fact that he will find plenty of solutions to HIS particular question within 1 minute. He doesn't listen. And listening is not a cultural constrain (perhaps if we call him little grasshopper will he be more attentive?). To me, he doesn't have it. I have friends who ask me all the time to teach them programming and I ignore them. Inside I know that they don't have it because a real programmer never asks another to teach him to program, therefore I would save myself the time. But maybe I am wrong, maybe this guy will learn from what we are trying to tell him... I hope. CS -Original Message- From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steve Howes Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 8:51 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan On 13 Nov 2009, at 16:02, Cary Fitch wrote: Sorry, I can't resist. Evidently How do I join the Mail List Nazi Corp? Do I have to be invited, or can I just self appoint myself? Asking neophyte questions are objected to by some, top posting by those who blast others, etc. You just joined. How about leaving member chastisement to the sponsor of the list? I'd happily do so if it happened. Some people have no one within 250 miles of where they are to learn from or learn better by working with code than reading inscrutable examples from different versions, and other inanimate pages of examples that have wrong variables, etc. Well, most of the people on the list managed to do this without harassing people.. Nearly everyone can be criticized for something, Asking dumb questions, top posting, bottom posting and leaving 3 pages of crap to scroll through, answering questions that were answered 5 posts down, because they didn't review the newer messages before posting, and more. Yes, and they shouldn't. Its called etiquette. Be charitable and kind. Have a nice day. I always am. Here, have a free hug, *hug* I find that helps when I'm feeling grumpy. S ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
I don't get it. I just replied helpfully to Mr. opensourcesolutions on the mailing list and for this he expresses his gratitude with two more obnoxious private e-mails to me, along these general lines: hi these r the steps to rn music on if i doing some mistake than plz guide me. 1-Install SOX (Sound Exchange Quality) yum install sox 2 install a music (plz give the link to download) 3 convert the song in asterisk format, convert it through sox 4 file saved in mohwav 5 now give the path in /etc/asterisk/musiconhold thx -- Alex Balashov - Principal Evariste Systems Web : http://www.evaristesys.com/ Tel : (+1) (678) 954-0670 Direct : (+1) (678) 954-0671 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
I cant stop laughing lolz Any how we must not reply in private but ask to post on list only. Lets make him able to achieve his objective through the list. Cheers On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 11:56 PM, Alex Balashov abalas...@evaristesys.comwrote: I don't get it. I just replied helpfully to Mr. opensourcesolutions on the mailing list and for this he expresses his gratitude with two more obnoxious private e-mails to me, along these general lines: hi these r the steps to rn music on if i doing some mistake than plz guide me. 1-Install SOX (Sound Exchange Quality) yum install sox 2 install a music (plz give the link to download) 3 convert the song in asterisk format, convert it through sox 4 file saved in mohwav 5 now give the path in /etc/asterisk/musiconhold thx -- Alex Balashov - Principal Evariste Systems Web : http://www.evaristesys.com/ Tel : (+1) (678) 954-0670 Direct : (+1) (678) 954-0671 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- Best Regards Shakeel Abbas ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
Don't laugh too hard. -- Sent from mobile device On Nov 14, 2009, at 2:04 PM, ABBAS SHAKEEL shakeel.abbas@gmail.com wrote: I cant stop laughing lolz Any how we must not reply in private but ask to post on list only. Lets make him able to achieve his objective through the list. Cheers On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 11:56 PM, Alex Balashov abalas...@evaristesys.com wrote: I don't get it. I just replied helpfully to Mr. opensourcesolutions on the mailing list and for this he expresses his gratitude with two more obnoxious private e-mails to me, along these general lines: hi these r the steps to rn music on if i doing some mistake than plz guide me. 1-Install SOX (Sound Exchange Quality) yum install sox 2 install a music (plz give the link to download) 3 convert the song in asterisk format, convert it through sox 4 file saved in mohwav 5 now give the path in /etc/asterisk/musiconhold thx -- Alex Balashov - Principal Evariste Systems Web : http://www.evaristesys.com/ Tel : (+1) (678) 954-0670 Direct : (+1) (678) 954-0671 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- Best Regards Shakeel Abbas ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
Pre-judging people doesn't work on mailing lists given the inherent language barriers, etc. I believe language barriers can cause many problems when trying to communicate. I might say something in another language trying to translate a phrase or something, that might not have the same meaning I´m trying to get accross. I´m billingual myself, english is my second language but, I carefully try to choose the correct words when asking for help or even talking to anybody so I don´t offend that person. Let´s have compassion with this guy and let´s give him a break. Looks like his having a lot of problems trying to resolve his issues and frustrations have started to get on him. I put myself on his shoes and know how frustrating things can get from time to time. Also, we need to understand not all everyone has the same understanding capabilities. Some of us are ¨dumber¨ than others. What´s easy for you may not be easy for me and viceversa. ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
Landy Landy wrote: I believe language barriers can cause many problems when trying to communicate. I might say something in another language trying to translate a phrase or something, that might not have the same meaning I´m trying to get accross. I´m billingual myself, english is my second language but, I carefully try to choose the correct words when asking for help or even talking to anybody so I don´t offend that person. It is a central contention of my previous posts on this topic that when you take the time to carefully choose to the correct words, and otherwise appear to give some thought to both the intellectual coherence and the articulation of your question, this is evident in the resulting message. Language barriers are not a problem here; it is obvious that both thought and effort went into your post, even if there are orthographic and/or grammatical mistakes. In particular, since you are aware that English is not your native language, you aren't going to do stupid things to make the problem worse like encd ur entire msg in philistine txt spek, r U ? The difference between what you are referring to and the poster under discussion is about laziness and respect, not legitimate differences of language, culture and technical abilities of which we should all - I fully agree - be mindful. -- Alex Balashov - Principal Evariste Systems Web : http://www.evaristesys.com/ Tel : (+1) (678) 954-0670 Direct : (+1) (678) 954-0671 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
Please stop emailing me personally. If no one replies to a post, it means that everyone is busy or they think you should read through the documentation before posting. If you can't figure out simple things like Music on hold from the documentation, then i dont think VOIP is for you. -Original Message- From: aster...@opensourcesolution.in [mailto:aster...@opensourcesolution.in] Sent: 13 November 2009 09:18 To: Dan Journo Subject: hi Dan Hi dan, sorry for sending u personal mail. i am a beginner in asterisk, i had configured a minimum dial plan in which i had made two extentions n made call between two extentions via soft phone (X-Lite). now i am begining with CALLER -ID, MUSIC ON HOLD, QUEUE.plz if u have any good link or documentation than share it with me. Regards, Pawan ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
Its not just you mate. He's doing it to everyone, and sadly the list server is too clever to accept forged unsubscribes.. Steve On 13 Nov 2009, at 15:22, Dan Journo wrote: Please stop emailing me personally. If no one replies to a post, it means that everyone is busy or they think you should read through the documentation before posting. If you can't figure out simple things like Music on hold from the documentation, then i dont think VOIP is for you. -Original Message- From: aster...@opensourcesolution.in [mailto:aster...@opensourcesolution.in ] Sent: 13 November 2009 09:18 To: Dan Journo Subject: hi Dan Hi dan, sorry for sending u personal mail. i am a beginner in asterisk, i had configured a minimum dial plan in which i had made two extentions n made call between two extentions via soft phone (X- Lite). now i am begining with CALLER -ID, MUSIC ON HOLD, QUEUE.plz if u have any good link or documentation than share it with me. Regards, Pawan ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
Sorry, I can't resist. How do I join the Mail List Nazi Corp? Do I have to be invited, or can I just self appoint myself? Asking neophyte questions are objected to by some, top posting by those who blast others, etc. How about leaving member chastisement to the sponsor of the list? Some people have no one within 250 miles of where they are to learn from or learn better by working with code than reading inscrutable examples from different versions, and other inanimate pages of examples that have wrong variables, etc. Nearly everyone can be criticized for something, Asking dumb questions, top posting, bottom posting and leaving 3 pages of crap to scroll through, answering questions that were answered 5 posts down, because they didn't review the newer messages before posting, and more. Be charitable and kind. Have a nice day. Cary Fitch -Original Message- From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steve Howes Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 9:45 AM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan Its not just you mate. He's doing it to everyone, and sadly the list server is too clever to accept forged unsubscribes.. Steve On 13 Nov 2009, at 15:22, Dan Journo wrote: Please stop emailing me personally. If no one replies to a post, it means that everyone is busy or they think you should read through the documentation before posting. If you can't figure out simple things like Music on hold from the documentation, then i dont think VOIP is for you. -Original Message- From: aster...@opensourcesolution.in [mailto:aster...@opensourcesolution.in ] Sent: 13 November 2009 09:18 To: Dan Journo Subject: hi Dan Hi dan, sorry for sending u personal mail. i am a beginner in asterisk, i had configured a minimum dial plan in which i had made two extentions n made call between two extentions via soft phone (X- Lite). now i am begining with CALLER -ID, MUSIC ON HOLD, QUEUE.plz if u have any good link or documentation than share it with me. Regards, Pawan ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
This is happening here also :( On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 9:02 PM, Cary Fitch ca...@usawide.net wrote: Sorry, I can't resist. How do I join the Mail List Nazi Corp? Do I have to be invited, or can I just self appoint myself? Asking neophyte questions are objected to by some, top posting by those who blast others, etc. How about leaving member chastisement to the sponsor of the list? Some people have no one within 250 miles of where they are to learn from or learn better by working with code than reading inscrutable examples from different versions, and other inanimate pages of examples that have wrong variables, etc. Nearly everyone can be criticized for something, Asking dumb questions, top posting, bottom posting and leaving 3 pages of crap to scroll through, answering questions that were answered 5 posts down, because they didn't review the newer messages before posting, and more. Be charitable and kind. Have a nice day. Cary Fitch -Original Message- From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steve Howes Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 9:45 AM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan Its not just you mate. He's doing it to everyone, and sadly the list server is too clever to accept forged unsubscribes.. Steve On 13 Nov 2009, at 15:22, Dan Journo wrote: Please stop emailing me personally. If no one replies to a post, it means that everyone is busy or they think you should read through the documentation before posting. If you can't figure out simple things like Music on hold from the documentation, then i dont think VOIP is for you. -Original Message- From: aster...@opensourcesolution.in [mailto:aster...@opensourcesolution.in ] Sent: 13 November 2009 09:18 To: Dan Journo Subject: hi Dan Hi dan, sorry for sending u personal mail. i am a beginner in asterisk, i had configured a minimum dial plan in which i had made two extentions n made call between two extentions via soft phone (X- Lite). now i am begining with CALLER -ID, MUSIC ON HOLD, QUEUE.plz if u have any good link or documentation than share it with me. Regards, Pawan ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- Best Regards Shakeel Abbas ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
On 13 Nov 2009, at 16:02, Cary Fitch wrote: Sorry, I can't resist. Evidently How do I join the Mail List Nazi Corp? Do I have to be invited, or can I just self appoint myself? Asking neophyte questions are objected to by some, top posting by those who blast others, etc. You just joined. How about leaving member chastisement to the sponsor of the list? I'd happily do so if it happened. Some people have no one within 250 miles of where they are to learn from or learn better by working with code than reading inscrutable examples from different versions, and other inanimate pages of examples that have wrong variables, etc. Well, most of the people on the list managed to do this without harassing people.. Nearly everyone can be criticized for something, Asking dumb questions, top posting, bottom posting and leaving 3 pages of crap to scroll through, answering questions that were answered 5 posts down, because they didn't review the newer messages before posting, and more. Yes, and they shouldn't. Its called etiquette. Be charitable and kind. Have a nice day. I always am. Here, have a free hug, *hug* I find that helps when I'm feeling grumpy. S ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
Sorry, I can't resist. How do I join the Mail List Nazi Corp? Do I have to be invited, or can I just self appoint myself? Asking neophyte questions are objected to by some, top posting by those who blast others, etc. How about leaving member chastisement to the sponsor of the list? That's unlikely to happen in most cases. Some people have no one within 250 miles of where they are to learn from or learn better by working with code than reading inscrutable examples from different versions, and other inanimate pages of examples that have wrong variables, etc. Yes. Nearly everyone can be criticized for something, Asking dumb questions, top posting, bottom posting and leaving 3 pages of crap to scroll through, answering questions that were answered 5 posts down, because they didn't review the newer messages before posting, and more. Be charitable and kind. Have a nice day. There's absolutely something to be said for that. On the other hand, there is also something to be said for making people exhaust the available resources prior to solving their problems for them. You can even be charitable and kind while doing so... Back in the '90's, I knew a really bright guy who knew Windows and Novell inside and out. He was just learning UNIXy stuff (FreeBSD in particular) and he was discovering that there was a lot of application for the stuff. He would frequently approach me, desperately seeking an answer to some general problem of some sort. I would typically give relatively vague answers, ending up essentially with a figure it out yourself. This frustrated him to no end, but he would do so. Later, he would come to me, almost always with a workable solution, at which point we would often discuss the ins and outs of several different options. His solution wasn't always the *best*, but it would always serve as a foundation for the rest. Years later, he thanked me. At the time, he didn't really appreciate what I was doing and didn't see the bigger picture. Looking back on it, I think he saw that I had always tried to aim him in a sensible direction before shoving him off on his own to figure it out. He eventually grew confident enough and capable enough that he would no longer need to ask for help. I can fix your problems for you, or I can teach you to be self- sufficient... which one is doing you more of a favor? It may seem more charitable and kind to simply give someone answers, but I do not think it actually is, at least in this sort of situation. As for the original poster? It's my impression, reading in between the lines, that he probably hasn't tried that hard. Asterisk on Linux is pretty straightforward, and MOH is probably not that rough to get running. On FreeBSD? That's a different thing. Bleh. But it's still better to do it on-list rather than selecting someone at random to go and bother. I don't think anyone will prevent you from being charitable and kind by providing answers to the guy's questions on the list though. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again. - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples. ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
As is occasionally pointed out by discerning people, questions are not dumb because they are posed by newbies, or because they reflect a lack of familiarity or knowledge of the product. Questions are dumb when they are formulated in a manner consistent with extreme intellectual laziness, expressive laziness and lack of consideration for the charity of one's audience at best, and brain damage at worst. -- Alex Balashov - Principal Evariste Systems Web : http://www.evaristesys.com/ Tel : (+1) (678) 954-0670 Direct : (+1) (678) 954-0671 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
How do you know a good soccer player when you see one? If you are a good scout, just by his body language. Just by seeing him how he walks and positions himself on a field. By the time he touches the ball, he is either eliminated from my list of prospects or he is marked as good to be considered. How do you know a good technical person when you see one? Because irrespective of wherever he/she is from, regardless of his language, social status, and even upbringing, he KNOWS WHAT GOOGLE IS. The desire to investigate, research, and READ must be born with him the same day he is born. There is a saying that goes you can't tech a man anything, you can only help him find himself. In this case, this man has been attentively helped, and his questions have been duly answered more than once in this forum. He has been told in no uncertain terms to SEARCH IN GOOGLE... That is the answer, based in the fact that he will find plenty of solutions to HIS particular question within 1 minute. He doesn't listen. And listening is not a cultural constrain (perhaps if we call him little grasshopper will he be more attentive?). To me, he doesn't have it. I have friends who ask me all the time to teach them programming and I ignore them. Inside I know that they don't have it because a real programmer never asks another to teach him to program, therefore I would save myself the time. But maybe I am wrong, maybe this guy will learn from what we are trying to tell him... I hope. CS -Original Message- From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steve Howes Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 8:51 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan On 13 Nov 2009, at 16:02, Cary Fitch wrote: Sorry, I can't resist. Evidently How do I join the Mail List Nazi Corp? Do I have to be invited, or can I just self appoint myself? Asking neophyte questions are objected to by some, top posting by those who blast others, etc. You just joined. How about leaving member chastisement to the sponsor of the list? I'd happily do so if it happened. Some people have no one within 250 miles of where they are to learn from or learn better by working with code than reading inscrutable examples from different versions, and other inanimate pages of examples that have wrong variables, etc. Well, most of the people on the list managed to do this without harassing people.. Nearly everyone can be criticized for something, Asking dumb questions, top posting, bottom posting and leaving 3 pages of crap to scroll through, answering questions that were answered 5 posts down, because they didn't review the newer messages before posting, and more. Yes, and they shouldn't. Its called etiquette. Be charitable and kind. Have a nice day. I always am. Here, have a free hug, *hug* I find that helps when I'm feeling grumpy. S ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
Joe Greco wrote: Sorry, I can't resist. How do I join the Mail List Nazi Corp? Do I have to be invited, or can I just self appoint myself? Asking neophyte questions are objected to by some, top posting by those who blast others, etc. How about leaving member chastisement to the sponsor of the list? That's unlikely to happen in most cases. Some people have no one within 250 miles of where they are to learn from or learn better by working with code than reading inscrutable examples from different versions, and other inanimate pages of examples that have wrong variables, etc. Yes. Nearly everyone can be criticized for something, Asking dumb questions, top posting, bottom posting and leaving 3 pages of crap to scroll through, answering questions that were answered 5 posts down, because they didn't review the newer messages before posting, and more. Be charitable and kind. Have a nice day. There's absolutely something to be said for that. On the other hand, there is also something to be said for making people exhaust the available resources prior to solving their problems for them. You can even be charitable and kind while doing so... Back in the '90's, I knew a really bright guy who knew Windows and Novell inside and out. He was just learning UNIXy stuff (FreeBSD in particular) and he was discovering that there was a lot of application for the stuff. He would frequently approach me, desperately seeking an answer to some general problem of some sort. I would typically give relatively vague answers, ending up essentially with a figure it out yourself. This frustrated him to no end, but he would do so. Later, he would come to me, almost always with a workable solution, at which point we would often discuss the ins and outs of several different options. His solution wasn't always the *best*, but it would always serve as a foundation for the rest. Years later, he thanked me. At the time, he didn't really appreciate what I was doing and didn't see the bigger picture. Looking back on it, I think he saw that I had always tried to aim him in a sensible direction before shoving him off on his own to figure it out. He eventually grew confident enough and capable enough that he would no longer need to ask for help. I can fix your problems for you, or I can teach you to be self- sufficient... which one is doing you more of a favor? It may seem more charitable and kind to simply give someone answers, but I do not think it actually is, at least in this sort of situation. As for the original poster? It's my impression, reading in between the lines, that he probably hasn't tried that hard. Asterisk on Linux is pretty straightforward, and MOH is probably not that rough to get running. On FreeBSD? That's a different thing. Bleh. But it's still better to do it on-list rather than selecting someone at random to go and bother. I don't think anyone will prevent you from being charitable and kind by providing answers to the guy's questions on the list though. ... JG Slightly paraphrasing a very old and wise saying: Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach him how to fish, he eats for a lifetime. -- JohnM ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
Slightly paraphrasing a very old and wise saying: Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach him how to fish, he eats for a lifetime. -- JohnM I see no teaching, just no help. He doesn't eat today or tomorrow either. Cary Fitch ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 1:06 PM, John Millican jmilli...@sentinelcommunications.com wrote: Slightly paraphrasing a very old and wise saying: Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach him how to fish, he eats for a lifetime. I've always liked... Build a man a fire stays warm for a day Catch a man on fire stays warm the rest of his life. Either way, I agree. -jon ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
What say you to the proposal that some approaches to seeking help are so ridiculous they should not be tolerated? Community standards neither conceive nor enforce themselves. -- Sent from mobile device On Nov 13, 2009, at 2:32 PM, Cary Fitch ca...@usawide.net wrote: Slightly paraphrasing a very old and wise saying: Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach him how to fish, he eats for a lifetime. -- JohnM I see no teaching, just no help. He doesn't eat today or tomorrow either. Cary Fitch ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
On Fri, 13 Nov 2009, Jon Moore wrote: I've always liked... Build a man a fire stays warm for a day Catch a man on fire stays warm the rest of his life. Funniest thing I've read all day :) -- Thanks in advance, - Steve Edwards sedwa...@sedwards.com Voice: +1-760-468-3867 PST Newline Fax: +1-760-731-3000 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
snip What say you to the proposal that some approaches to seeking help are so ridiculous they should not be tolerated? /snip I say give me a break. Pre-judging people doesn't work on mailing lists given the inherent language barriers, etc. ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
David Gibbons wrote: snip What say you to the proposal that some approaches to seeking help are so ridiculous they should not be tolerated? /snip I say give me a break. Pre-judging people doesn't work on mailing lists given the inherent language barriers, etc. It can. There are intelligent and respectful ways of asking a question - as well as good ways to make the choices surrounding the asking of the question (such as emailing a dozen people privately and continuously badgering them, while posting to the list in parallel) - despite the encumbrance language differences pose. I've seen people with far, far worse English than our opensourcesolutions friend interact in a way that reflects much more common sense, awareness, respect of the audience, and a generally cultured way of seeking assistance that dignifies a response. -- Alex -- Alex Balashov - Principal Evariste Systems Web : http://www.evaristesys.com/ Tel : (+1) (678) 954-0670 Direct : (+1) (678) 954-0671 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
What say you to the proposal that some approaches to seeking help are so ridiculous they should not be tolerated? Community standards neither conceive nor enforce themselves. This community standard is entirely self-enforcing. If everybody thinks the request for help is unwarranted and doesn't deserve an answer, then nobody answers. If it isn't so intolerable to fall victim to that, then someone may feel inclined to help out and answer. If the volume of such requests becomes sufficiently burdensome that it exhausts those answering the questions, then eventually the equilibrium resets; those answering the questions begin to pick out the ones that they feel are worthy of answers. Years ago, I got a bit of a panicky phone call from a sysadmin at an ISP that I was loosely familiar with from mailing lists. He was rather frazzled and puzzled because he had been struggling to solve a problem during a downtime; it was something I was familiar with and had been advocating on a mailing list. He was doing something completely reasonable-seeming, it's just that what he was doing didn't work, and had never worked that way. I walked him through a different method, from memory, solved his problem. I'm positive I could have charged him billable hours, but I didn't, because I felt somewhat responsible for having advocated something rather complex that was followed by a competent admin and it blew up in his face - precisely *because* the problem and fix were obscure. The Asterisk community is great at promoting itself, but quite frankly the documentation and solutions are sometimes not all that great. It can be challenging to find the right fix, or even *a* fix. Questions *must* be expected. The community has generally been fairly successful at coping with the questions; I view the beginning of this thread to be a sign of that. ... JG -- Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I won't contact you again. - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN) With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples. ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
On Fri, 13 Nov 2009, Cary Fitch wrote: Sorry, I can't resist. Next time please try harder. How do I join the Mail List Nazi Corp? And of course, lacking any sense of history, let's blame it on the Nazis. Asking neophyte questions are objected to by some, top posting by those who blast others, etc. Not at all. If you had any sense of Pawan's history you may have chosen sides differently: Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 09:34:18 + Subject: [asterisk-users] Installing Asterisk Pawan states he is reading an Asterisk book and requests suggestions on which OS he should use. He received helpful responses from Dan Journo, PATRICK KANGETHE, John Novack, and Hans Witvliet. 30 minutes later he posts a brilliant tome Subjected installing consisting of 2 words -- installing asterisk. He received less than helpful responses from Steve Howes, Alex Balashov, and Pascal Bruno. Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:07:30 + Subject: [asterisk-users] deploying asterisk Pawan states he had just finished the installation requirement of asterisk and now feels competent to piss off 40 executives with his first installation. He received helpful responses from Danny Nicholas, Darrick Hartman, Steve Edwards (me), and Alex Balashov. Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 09:37:42 + Subject: [asterisk-users] hardware requirements for asterisk Pawan request help with hardware requirements. Curiously, he implies that he can read and has just finished my chapters of asterisk. He receives helpful responses from Alex Balashov and Hans Witvliet. Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 04:33:09 + Subject: [asterisk-users] asterisk,libpri,zaptel Pawan requests help installing Asterisk. Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:08:02 + Subject: [asterisk-users] problem while compiling asterisk tar file Pawan requests help in compiling gtk. He receives helpful responses from Jimmy Godbout, Danny Nicholas, Steve Howes, Jason Parker. Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 17:29:57 + Subject: [asterisk-users] help in installing asterisk Pawan requests help in compiling Asterisk. Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 06:20:46 + Subject: [asterisk-users] how to check version of asterisk Pawan requests help to determine the version of Asterisk he installed. He receives helpful responses from Alex Balashov, Tzafrir Cohen, and C. Savinovich. Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:11:47 + Subject: [asterisk-users] how to configure softphones in asterisk Pawan requests help configuring a softphone. He does not indicate that he has done any research, tried anything or received any error messages. He receives helpful responses from Matt Riddell and Danny Nicholas. He receives less that helpful responses from Alex Balashov, Steve Howes, and C. Savinovich in response to emailing them privately. Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:16:50 + Subject: [asterisk-users] how to configure softphones in asterisk Pawan solicits help configuring a softphone. He does not indicate that he has done any research, tried anything or received any error messages. He receives helpful responses from Alex Balashov and Barry L. Kline. Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 06:31:35 + Subject: [asterisk-users] soft phone (X-lite) not able to register with asterisk Pawan solicits help configuring a softphone. 20 minutes later he posts the same request. He receives a helpful response from ABBAS SHAKEEL. Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 08:47:41 + Subject: [asterisk-users] CALLER-ID, MUSIC ON HOLD, HOLD, QUEUE Pawan indicates he has succeeded in placing a call between 2 extensions and now wants someone to complete is dialplan. He receives a helpful response from Leif Neland and less than helpful responses from Steve Howes and Steve Edwards. He also invites a flame-fest by soliciting help privately from several list members. All this in the last 2 weeks. Some people have no one within 250 miles of where they are to learn from or learn better by working with code than reading inscrutable examples from different versions, and other inanimate pages of examples that have wrong variables, etc. Distance is no defense to ignorance. If you have the ability to email, you have access to all the resources you need -- if given a gentle nudge or 2. Pawan has demonstrated a lack of social and technical skills that a clue-by-4 can't cure. Time to move on... -- Thanks in advance, - Steve Edwards sedwa...@sedwards.com Voice: +1-760-468-3867 PST Newline Fax: +1-760-731-3000 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
I strongly concur with this realistic and very well-researched thesis. -- Sent from mobile device On Nov 13, 2009, at 5:59 PM, Steve Edwards asterisk@sedwards.com wrote: On Fri, 13 Nov 2009, Cary Fitch wrote: Sorry, I can't resist. Next time please try harder. How do I join the Mail List Nazi Corp? And of course, lacking any sense of history, let's blame it on the Nazis. Asking neophyte questions are objected to by some, top posting by those who blast others, etc. Not at all. If you had any sense of Pawan's history you may have chosen sides differently: Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 09:34:18 + Subject: [asterisk-users] Installing Asterisk Pawan states he is reading an Asterisk book and requests suggestions on which OS he should use. He received helpful responses from Dan Journo, PATRICK KANGETHE, John Novack, and Hans Witvliet. 30 minutes later he posts a brilliant tome Subjected installing consisting of 2 words -- installing asterisk. He received less than helpful responses from Steve Howes, Alex Balashov, and Pascal Bruno. Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:07:30 + Subject: [asterisk-users] deploying asterisk Pawan states he had just finished the installation requirement of asterisk and now feels competent to piss off 40 executives with his first installation. He received helpful responses from Danny Nicholas, Darrick Hartman, Steve Edwards (me), and Alex Balashov. Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 09:37:42 + Subject: [asterisk-users] hardware requirements for asterisk Pawan request help with hardware requirements. Curiously, he implies that he can read and has just finished my chapters of asterisk. He receives helpful responses from Alex Balashov and Hans Witvliet. Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 04:33:09 + Subject: [asterisk-users] asterisk,libpri,zaptel Pawan requests help installing Asterisk. Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:08:02 + Subject: [asterisk-users] problem while compiling asterisk tar file Pawan requests help in compiling gtk. He receives helpful responses from Jimmy Godbout, Danny Nicholas, Steve Howes, Jason Parker. Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 17:29:57 + Subject: [asterisk-users] help in installing asterisk Pawan requests help in compiling Asterisk. Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 06:20:46 + Subject: [asterisk-users] how to check version of asterisk Pawan requests help to determine the version of Asterisk he installed. He receives helpful responses from Alex Balashov, Tzafrir Cohen, and C. Savinovich. Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:11:47 + Subject: [asterisk-users] how to configure softphones in asterisk Pawan requests help configuring a softphone. He does not indicate that he has done any research, tried anything or received any error messages. He receives helpful responses from Matt Riddell and Danny Nicholas. He receives less that helpful responses from Alex Balashov, Steve Howes, and C. Savinovich in response to emailing them privately. Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:16:50 + Subject: [asterisk-users] how to configure softphones in asterisk Pawan solicits help configuring a softphone. He does not indicate that he has done any research, tried anything or received any error messages. He receives helpful responses from Alex Balashov and Barry L. Kline. Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 06:31:35 + Subject: [asterisk-users] soft phone (X-lite) not able to register with asterisk Pawan solicits help configuring a softphone. 20 minutes later he posts the same request. He receives a helpful response from ABBAS SHAKEEL. Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 08:47:41 + Subject: [asterisk-users] CALLER-ID, MUSIC ON HOLD, HOLD, QUEUE Pawan indicates he has succeeded in placing a call between 2 extensions and now wants someone to complete is dialplan. He receives a helpful response from Leif Neland and less than helpful responses from Steve Howes and Steve Edwards. He also invites a flame-fest by soliciting help privately from several list members. All this in the last 2 weeks. Some people have no one within 250 miles of where they are to learn from or learn better by working with code than reading inscrutable examples from different versions, and other inanimate pages of examples that have wrong variables, etc. Distance is no defense to ignorance. If you have the ability to email, you have access to all the resources you need -- if given a gentle nudge or 2. Pawan has demonstrated a lack of social and technical skills that a clue-by-4 can't cure. Time to move on... -- Thanks in advance, --- -- Steve Edwards sedwa...@sedwards.com Voice: +1-760-468-3867 PST Newline Fax: +1-760-731-3000 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
My point was the two previous posters could have ignored the request and made no post at all. That they were violating a rule by top posting to tell a person not to bug them. And, someone criticized me for an off topic post and of course there have been 15-20 more. And some have top posted and interleave posted, and etc. And, it will all die down in a day or so. It is Friday night, time to turn off the computer and click Mark all as read on Monday morning. Be charitable and kind. Have a nice weekend. Cary Fitch -Original Message- From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steve Edwards Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 4:59 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan On Fri, 13 Nov 2009, Cary Fitch wrote: Sorry, I can't resist. Next time please try harder. How do I join the Mail List Nazi Corp? And of course, lacking any sense of history, let's blame it on the Nazis. Asking neophyte questions are objected to by some, top posting by those who blast others, etc. Not at all. If you had any sense of Pawan's history you may have chosen sides differently: Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 09:34:18 + Subject: [asterisk-users] Installing Asterisk Pawan states he is reading an Asterisk book and requests suggestions on which OS he should use. He received helpful responses from Dan Journo, PATRICK KANGETHE, John Novack, and Hans Witvliet. 30 minutes later he posts a brilliant tome Subjected installing consisting of 2 words -- installing asterisk. He received less than helpful responses from Steve Howes, Alex Balashov, and Pascal Bruno. Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 14:07:30 + Subject: [asterisk-users] deploying asterisk Pawan states he had just finished the installation requirement of asterisk and now feels competent to piss off 40 executives with his first installation. He received helpful responses from Danny Nicholas, Darrick Hartman, Steve Edwards (me), and Alex Balashov. Date: Mon, 02 Nov 2009 09:37:42 + Subject: [asterisk-users] hardware requirements for asterisk Pawan request help with hardware requirements. Curiously, he implies that he can read and has just finished my chapters of asterisk. He receives helpful responses from Alex Balashov and Hans Witvliet. Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 04:33:09 + Subject: [asterisk-users] asterisk,libpri,zaptel Pawan requests help installing Asterisk. Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:08:02 + Subject: [asterisk-users] problem while compiling asterisk tar file Pawan requests help in compiling gtk. He receives helpful responses from Jimmy Godbout, Danny Nicholas, Steve Howes, Jason Parker. Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2009 17:29:57 + Subject: [asterisk-users] help in installing asterisk Pawan requests help in compiling Asterisk. Date: Sun, 08 Nov 2009 06:20:46 + Subject: [asterisk-users] how to check version of asterisk Pawan requests help to determine the version of Asterisk he installed. He receives helpful responses from Alex Balashov, Tzafrir Cohen, and C. Savinovich. Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 17:11:47 + Subject: [asterisk-users] how to configure softphones in asterisk Pawan requests help configuring a softphone. He does not indicate that he has done any research, tried anything or received any error messages. He receives helpful responses from Matt Riddell and Danny Nicholas. He receives less that helpful responses from Alex Balashov, Steve Howes, and C. Savinovich in response to emailing them privately. Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:16:50 + Subject: [asterisk-users] how to configure softphones in asterisk Pawan solicits help configuring a softphone. He does not indicate that he has done any research, tried anything or received any error messages. He receives helpful responses from Alex Balashov and Barry L. Kline. Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 06:31:35 + Subject: [asterisk-users] soft phone (X-lite) not able to register with asterisk Pawan solicits help configuring a softphone. 20 minutes later he posts the same request. He receives a helpful response from ABBAS SHAKEEL. Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 08:47:41 + Subject: [asterisk-users] CALLER-ID, MUSIC ON HOLD, HOLD, QUEUE Pawan indicates he has succeeded in placing a call between 2 extensions and now wants someone to complete is dialplan. He receives a helpful response from Leif Neland and less than helpful responses from Steve Howes and Steve Edwards. He also invites a flame-fest by soliciting help privately from several list members. All this in the last 2 weeks. Some people have no one within 250 miles of where they are to learn from or learn better by working with code than reading inscrutable examples from different versions, and other inanimate pages of examples that have wrong variables, etc. Distance is no defense to ignorance. If you have the ability to email, you have access to all the resources you need
Re: [asterisk-users] FW: hi Dan
On Nov 13, 2009, at 6:16 PM, Cary Fitch wrote: My point was the two previous posters could have ignored the request and made no post at all. That they were violating a rule by top posting to tell a person not to bug them. And, someone criticized me for an off topic post and of course there have been 15-20 more. And some have top posted and interleave posted, and etc. And, it will all die down in a day or so. Be charitable and kind. Have a nice weekend. Cary Fitch Just the other day, I was commenting how helpful people are on this list. We rarely get into flame wars. We rarely port RTFM. And yet, there comes a time when even the most flame-proof must flame. I think it's been shown that people have been BEYOND helpful, more than kind, very patient, and courteous... up until the point where it was time not to be. I just want to say thank you to those that continue to be helpful day in and out and say... I support their handling of the 100%. That being said... when we discuss our flames, we shall not invoke Godwin's Law. :) ---fred http://qxork.com ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
