Re: [asterisk-users] International dialplans for Asterisk?
Am Freitag, den 22.12.2006, 09:53 -0500 schrieb Doug Crompton: Wow what a mess! I can imagine how much easier it would be if the world adopted a country/area/exchange scheme like in the US with known length. It must be complicated in Germany just within the country. At least in the US we know what the length should be so if we don't have that we know the number is in error. Doug Having variable length offers several advantages, it just makes life harder for telcos (and telco-lookalikes like us ;) - Companies with several phones can have DDI, possibly multi-digit, but (as convention) the -0 always is the central phone desk. So if you do not know the number of the person, but just the company (which would be listed in the yellow pages), you call the -0 and ask to be transferred. For example if I need to speak to the University library, I just call 73-0 (local call), and they transfer to extensions 73-1234. I prefer this a lot over the system it seems the US as well as UK use a lot, where you always dial a fixed-length number, the call is connected (from which moment on you are charged for the call--- this was really expensive if international tariffs applied) and a recorded message asks you to dial a four-digit extension or 0 for assistance. I like our system better, as it allows for all those nice digital phone features like Callback-on-Called-Party-ends-call (if the remote side was on a call, so the busy indication works without additional charge), Callback-After-First-Call-Of-Remote-Party (where, if nobody was available, the network will notifiy after the other side got off-hooked and on-hooked again), and whatever there is. - And then, in small populated areas that got their own area code nonetheless, they handed out short numbers. Nowadays with ISDN lines (which give you three up to 10 numbers) being so popular, VoIP geographic numbers taking their share etc, the number room became full in those areas. So they just took free 3-digit codes and made 6-digit blocks out of them. No problem with digital switches on the telco side. Here in Bonn (area 228) policy was that every new landline gets one (analogue line) or three (ISDN) 7-digit numbers, and if you apply for up to 7 more numbers, which was free until 2005, you would get 8-digit numbers. Lots of 6-digit numbers are still in use (handed out until the late 90s), shorter numbers do not exist except for companies. How short a number they have (plus DDI digits) depends on what they pay for it and how many channels their trunk has. They will get 5-digit(+x) here for a reasonable price, 4-digit will be rather expensive, and 2-/3-digit are not available any more - those in use have been assigned in the 50ties when the phone system was built. So the University, the DoD, the D.of Foreign Affairs, the town hall, the police central station... caught them, and bad luck for all the others. Of course, Germany does not have something like area-split and similar hassles - at least not for technical reasons. AFAIK there have been a handful area code changes for political reasons during the last 50 years, and the eastern part of Germany got a completely new phone system after the Iron Curtain fell - quite foresight to keep the 3x area codes unused in the western phone system (except 30 which is Berlin - but that in fact is eastern Germany as well, obviously). I think the most recent area code changes were when the 0-800 numbers came, because some area had the code 8001 or so. European standards and their popularity in germany, ahem... :) BR Anselm ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] International dialplans for Asterisk?
On 13:16, Fri 22 Dec 06, Rajeev Natarajan wrote: I think the + convention started off because different countries have different international access codes. Well, on GSM networks, + can be a part of the number to represent the international access code ( the traditional access code in India is 00 for international). So to call Digium, from my GSM phone, I can use 0018775468963 or +18775468963 and Allison will answer :) Rajeev On 12/22/06, Doug Crompton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Question... What is the purpose of the + before the number? Does anyone actually have to enter it? If so how would you do it? It is not used in the US but do I see it come in on SIP lines CID. I assume the CID ignores it in the number as I do not see it on the display. It is however stored in asterisk and when doing CID comparisions it can be a problem. The + is indeed a 'wildcard' for international access code. In our setup we dont provide it to the telco. In my GSM all numbers have this prefix so I can take my GSM to every country in the world and still dial my contacts. That's why we also put that + in phonenumbers in our applications and if we send it to asterisk it will be stripped. The fun thing is, that I also use this schema for .nl numbers, and that my provider is clever enough to find out where my GSM is and charge national fee when I dial +countrycode. while in the country of that code. I think it's all a lot easier when we simple adopt this schema and dial countrycodeareastation from now ;) -- Michiel van Baak [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://michiel.vanbaak.eu GnuPG key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x71C946BD Why is it drug addicts and computer afficionados are both called users? ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] International dialplans for Asterisk?
Am Freitag, den 22.12.2006, 00:53 -0500 schrieb Doug Crompton: Question... What is the purpose of the + before the number? Does anyone actually have to enter it? If so how would you do it? It is not used in the US but do I see it come in on SIP lines CID. I assume the CID ignores it in the number as I do not see it on the display. It is however stored in asterisk and when doing CID comparisions it can be a problem. The + is replaced by the telco you are connected to - by whatever the local prefix for international call is. In the US and Canada it will be 011, in most parts of the world 00, and there is Russia with its exotic 08 wait for beep 10... The + should work in GSM mobile networks and most SIP providers seem to accept it. For callerid, there seem to be several cases. One of my providers (the others manage better and always give 00492281234567 formatted numbers) gives CID as +491601234567 for calls from one German mobile network, 491637654321 from a second network and 02281234567 from landline, so my dialplan has to cope with that such that my endpoints show the proper number. This is done by the following logic: If number begins with +, strip it. If number begins with anything but 0, prepend 00. If number begins with 0049, replace by 0. Although in Germany you can dial 0049 (region) (number), readability is better when there is only the 0 (region) (number) on the display - especially as numbers tend to get long, and e.g. Grandstream BT-100 only have a 12-digit display. BTW the longest number I _think_ is planned in Germany is 9 digits after the area code for 2- and 3-digit area codes, 8 for 4-, and 7 for 5-digit areacodes. There is one exception though that I know of: One of our ministeries has usually 55- numbers (55 being their number, then four digits DDI), but their fax numbers are 8-digit. Thus resulting in total in 011-49-228-55-87654321 from US, 18 digits. If you can, leave room for long numbers. BR Anselm ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] International dialplans for Asterisk?
Wow what a mess! I can imagine how much easier it would be if the world adopted a country/area/exchange scheme like in the US with known length. It must be complicated in Germany just within the country. At least in the US we know what the length should be so if we don't have that we know the number is in error. Doug On Fri, 22 Dec 2006, Anselm Martin Hoffmeister wrote: Am Freitag, den 22.12.2006, 00:53 -0500 schrieb Doug Crompton: Question... What is the purpose of the + before the number? Does anyone actually have to enter it? If so how would you do it? It is not used in the US but do I see it come in on SIP lines CID. I assume the CID ignores it in the number as I do not see it on the display. It is however stored in asterisk and when doing CID comparisions it can be a problem. The + is replaced by the telco you are connected to - by whatever the local prefix for international call is. In the US and Canada it will be 011, in most parts of the world 00, and there is Russia with its exotic 08 wait for beep 10... The + should work in GSM mobile networks and most SIP providers seem to accept it. For callerid, there seem to be several cases. One of my providers (the others manage better and always give 00492281234567 formatted numbers) gives CID as +491601234567 for calls from one German mobile network, 491637654321 from a second network and 02281234567 from landline, so my dialplan has to cope with that such that my endpoints show the proper number. This is done by the following logic: If number begins with +, strip it. If number begins with anything but 0, prepend 00. If number begins with 0049, replace by 0. Although in Germany you can dial 0049 (region) (number), readability is better when there is only the 0 (region) (number) on the display - especially as numbers tend to get long, and e.g. Grandstream BT-100 only have a 12-digit display. BTW the longest number I _think_ is planned in Germany is 9 digits after the area code for 2- and 3-digit area codes, 8 for 4-, and 7 for 5-digit areacodes. There is one exception though that I know of: One of our ministeries has usually 55- numbers (55 being their number, then four digits DDI), but their fax numbers are 8-digit. Thus resulting in total in 011-49-228-55-87654321 from US, 18 digits. If you can, leave room for long numbers. BR Anselm ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users Those that sacrifice essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Ben Franklin (1759) * Doug Crompton * * Richboro, PA 18954 * * 215-431-6307* * * * [EMAIL PROTECTED]* * http://www.crompton.com * ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] International dialplans for Asterisk?
The + sign is grammatic only it just means your international dialing prefix + the country code etc. So for dialing a number from Canada to the UK you would advertize the number as + 44 xx etc. In Canada we dial 011 for international calls so I would actually dial 01144 xxx etc. Henry L.Coleman CEO *VoIP-PBX* 1-866-415-5355 Toronto Ontario Canada Wow what a mess! I can imagine how much easier it would be if the world adopted a country/area/exchange scheme like in the US with known length. It must be complicated in Germany just within the country. At least in the US we know what the length should be so if we don't have that we know the number is in error. Doug On Fri, 22 Dec 2006, Anselm Martin Hoffmeister wrote: Am Freitag, den 22.12.2006, 00:53 -0500 schrieb Doug Crompton: Question... What is the purpose of the + before the number? Does anyone actually have to enter it? If so how would you do it? It is not used in the US but do I see it come in on SIP lines CID. I assume the CID ignores it in the number as I do not see it on the display. It is however stored in asterisk and when doing CID comparisions it can be a problem. The + is replaced by the telco you are connected to - by whatever the local prefix for international call is. In the US and Canada it will be 011, in most parts of the world 00, and there is Russia with its exotic 08 wait for beep 10... The + should work in GSM mobile networks and most SIP providers seem to accept it. For callerid, there seem to be several cases. One of my providers (the others manage better and always give 00492281234567 formatted numbers) gives CID as +491601234567 for calls from one German mobile network, 491637654321 from a second network and 02281234567 from landline, so my dialplan has to cope with that such that my endpoints show the proper number. This is done by the following logic: If number begins with +, strip it. If number begins with anything but 0, prepend 00. If number begins with 0049, replace by 0. Although in Germany you can dial 0049 (region) (number), readability is better when there is only the 0 (region) (number) on the display - especially as numbers tend to get long, and e.g. Grandstream BT-100 only have a 12-digit display. BTW the longest number I _think_ is planned in Germany is 9 digits after the area code for 2- and 3-digit area codes, 8 for 4-, and 7 for 5-digit areacodes. There is one exception though that I know of: One of our ministeries has usually 55- numbers (55 being their number, then four digits DDI), but their fax numbers are 8-digit. Thus resulting in total in 011-49-228-55-87654321 from US, 18 digits. If you can, leave room for long numbers. BR Anselm ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users Those that sacrifice essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Ben Franklin (1759) * Doug Crompton * * Richboro, PA 18954* * 215-431-6307 * ** * [EMAIL PROTECTED]* * http://www.crompton.com * ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] International dialplans for Asterisk?
I agree, also have had this religious argument with an international telephony professional who disagrees He doesn't see that the variable length numbering (lack of ) plan can really become a problem On a similar note, since the NANP has become all electronic, there should never have been another area code split. It is costly to business and confusing to distant users who, after the passage of time try to locate someone in the now split off area code. Area codes are slowly losing their meaning as well, with LNP and VOIP services offering an NPA unrelated to geography With number assignments now mostly left in the laps of bureaucrats, the NANP will soon be in the same mess as the rest of the world. John Novack Doug Crompton wrote: Wow what a mess! I can imagine how much easier it would be if the world adopted a country/area/exchange scheme like in the US with known length. It must be complicated in Germany just within the country. At least in the US we know what the length should be so if we don't have that we know the number is in error. Doug On Fri, 22 Dec 2006, Anselm Martin Hoffmeister wrote: Am Freitag, den 22.12.2006, 00:53 -0500 schrieb Doug Crompton: Question... What is the purpose of the + before the number? Does anyone actually have to enter it? If so how would you do it? It is not used in the US but do I see it come in on SIP lines CID. I assume the CID ignores it in the number as I do not see it on the display. It is however stored in asterisk and when doing CID comparisions it can be a problem. The + is replaced by the telco you are connected to - by whatever the local prefix for international call is. In the US and Canada it will be 011, in most parts of the world 00, and there is Russia with its exotic 08 wait for beep 10... The + should work in GSM mobile networks and most SIP providers seem to accept it. For callerid, there seem to be several cases. One of my providers (the others manage better and always give 00492281234567 formatted numbers) gives CID as +491601234567 for calls from one German mobile network, 491637654321 from a second network and 02281234567 from landline, so my dialplan has to cope with that such that my endpoints show the proper number. This is done by the following logic: If number begins with +, strip it. If number begins with anything but 0, prepend 00. If number begins with 0049, replace by 0. Although in Germany you can dial 0049 (region) (number), readability is better when there is only the 0 (region) (number) on the display - especially as numbers tend to get long, and e.g. Grandstream BT-100 only have a 12-digit display. BTW the longest number I _think_ is planned in Germany is 9 digits after the area code for 2- and 3-digit area codes, 8 for 4-, and 7 for 5-digit areacodes. There is one exception though that I know of: One of our ministeries has usually 55- numbers (55 being their number, then four digits DDI), but their fax numbers are 8-digit. Thus resulting in total in 011-49-228-55-87654321 from US, 18 digits. If you can, leave room for long numbers. BR Anselm ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users Those that sacrifice essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. -- Ben Franklin (1759) * Doug Crompton * * Richboro, PA 18954 * * 215-431-6307* * * * [EMAIL PROTECTED]* * http://www.crompton.com * ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[asterisk-users] International dialplans for Asterisk?
Does anyone know the maximum number of digits for an international phone number? Doing some searching, it looks like 16 numbers including the 011 is the maximum number, because 17 is just not found: OK:1234567890123456 http://www.google.com/search?q=011X Not OK:12345678901234567 http://www.google.com/search?q=011XX This fellow includes 011x.T in his dial plan. Will this provide for more than 16 numbers?http://www.vovida.org/pipermail/mgcp/2003-November/001848.html Does anyone have some definitive sources for this subject? Other info: http://www.mail-archive.com/asterisk-users@lists.digium.com/msg37207.html ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] International dialplans for Asterisk?
On 21/12/06, Doug [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know the maximum number of digits for an international phone number? Doing some searching, it looks like 16 numbers including the 011 is the maximum number, because 17 is just not found: OK:1234567890123456 http://www.google.com/search?q=011X Not OK:12345678901234567 http://www.google.com/search?q=011XX Why would you imagine that people in non-US countries would list their phone numbers on their websites in US International dialing format? Especially when more countries use '00' for their outbound international prefix than use '011'. As has already been mentioned recently, at least one country (Germany) has no hard limit on the length of a number - extra digits after the base number are delivered to the CPE for internal routing - kind-of self-administered DDI ranges. Peter -- Peter Bowyer Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] International dialplans for Asterisk?
On 22:56, Thu 21 Dec 06, Peter Bowyer wrote: On 21/12/06, Doug [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone know the maximum number of digits for an international phone number? Doing some searching, it looks like 16 numbers including the 011 is the maximum number, because 17 is just not found: OK:1234567890123456 http://www.google.com/search?q=011X Not OK:12345678901234567 http://www.google.com/search?q=011XX Why would you imagine that people in non-US countries would list their phone numbers on their websites in US International dialing format? Especially when more countries use '00' for their outbound international prefix than use '011'. As has already been mentioned recently, at least one country (Germany) has no hard limit on the length of a number - extra digits after the base number are delivered to the CPE for internal routing - kind-of self-administered DDI ranges. As far as I can remember (and our ITSP is telling us to do) the 'dial international' code will be gone soon. In our case we have to provide the number like this: country coderegionendpoint[extra digits] So for a dutch number you send: 31318787243 31 == .nl 318 == my local region 787243 == my endpoint I see this more and more. not only ITSP, also PSTN providers and cellphone providers. cellphone providers use this most of the time: +countryregionendpont The above number looks like: +31318787243 Try to get that from your telco, it makes life way more easy. -- Michiel van Baak [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://michiel.vanbaak.eu GnuPG key: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x71C946BD Why is it drug addicts and computer afficionados are both called users? ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] International dialplans for Asterisk?
Question... What is the purpose of the + before the number? Does anyone actually have to enter it? If so how would you do it? It is not used in the US but do I see it come in on SIP lines CID. I assume the CID ignores it in the number as I do not see it on the display. It is however stored in asterisk and when doing CID comparisions it can be a problem. Doug On Fri, 22 Dec 2006, Michiel van Baak wrote: The above number looks like: +31318787243 Try to get that from your telco, it makes life way more easy. -- Michiel van Baak [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://michiel.vanbaak.eu ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] International dialplans for Asterisk?
I think the + convention started off because different countries have different international access codes. Well, on GSM networks, + can be a part of the number to represent the international access code ( the traditional access code in India is 00 for international). So to call Digium, from my GSM phone, I can use 0018775468963 or +18775468963 and Allison will answer :) Rajeev On 12/22/06, Doug Crompton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Question... What is the purpose of the + before the number? Does anyone actually have to enter it? If so how would you do it? It is not used in the US but do I see it come in on SIP lines CID. I assume the CID ignores it in the number as I do not see it on the display. It is however stored in asterisk and when doing CID comparisions it can be a problem. Doug On Fri, 22 Dec 2006, Michiel van Baak wrote: The above number looks like: +31318787243 Try to get that from your telco, it makes life way more easy. -- Michiel van Baak [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://michiel.vanbaak.eu ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
