Re: [asterisk-users] PRI Outbound CallerID Question
- Original Message - From: Kristian Kielhofner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] PRI Outbound CallerID Question Shawn Kelley wrote: Hi all, I've searched around and haven't found much of an answer to my issue. Any advice from you would be appreciated. Problem: Need to take an inbound call from our PRI and forward it to another PSTN user via the PRI, sending the original callers id with it. I know this can be done since we currently use an 800 service that does it. You call the 800 number; they answer and put you on hold. They then outcall to the pstn numbers we have defined and the incoming call shows up with the original callers CID, we answer and have options to accept or reject the call. So I know the 800 provider is staying in the middle of the call and not just performing a redirect to us. I've tried the various CID settings in Asterisk, but am not able to use anything but our DID numbers for our outbound caller id. My telco has been unresponsive to this issue. Does anyone know if it's possible with a PRI or do you have to have some other type of PSTN connection such as SS7? Thanks!! --Shawn Shawn, 1) When a call comes in, put the original CALLERID(number) into a variable. This way, if you mess with the real CALLERIDNUM through your dialplan you can always set it back. I like to use KKFROMCID to make sure that no scripts, Asterisk, etc mess with my original CID! 2) Get a telco that lets you set any CID. I don't know if I just look trustworthy or something, but I have had no problems whatsoever getting several LECs and CLECs in multiple states to let me set any CID I want. Looking at the other posts, it seems that some people have problems with that. I never considered it to be a big deal, just a cool privilege that you gain with a PRI... It seems that isn't the case with some telcos. 3) I don't know if this works or not, but I could swear that there is a redirect possible on PRI (similar to SIP 302). I don't know if app_transfer (and your telco) support it, but it would be really cool because it would save you in terms of the number of used channels. (Using 0 channels instead of 2). Check this thread: http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/2003-May/004594.html -- Kristian Kielhofner There's a good chance that one reason they are unresponsive is the loss of revenue - if you change the caller id number to something that is not theirs. James Taylor ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [asterisk-users] PRI Outbound CallerID Question
James, As for the loss of revenue, they wouldn't loose any. Since there are two scenarios we want to do, one is put our 800 number in the CID, (which is with the same carrier as our phone service), the other is to simply put the original callers CID in the outbound CID when we are transferring the call to one of our remote employees (home or cell). Loss of revenue was a good idea, but don't think it's the cause here. --Shawn -Original Message- From: James [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 5:34 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] PRI Outbound CallerID Question - Original Message - From: Kristian Kielhofner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] PRI Outbound CallerID Question Shawn Kelley wrote: Hi all, I've searched around and haven't found much of an answer to my issue. Any advice from you would be appreciated. Problem: Need to take an inbound call from our PRI and forward it to another PSTN user via the PRI, sending the original callers id with it. I know this can be done since we currently use an 800 service that does it. You call the 800 number; they answer and put you on hold. They then outcall to the pstn numbers we have defined and the incoming call shows up with the original callers CID, we answer and have options to accept or reject the call. So I know the 800 provider is staying in the middle of the call and not just performing a redirect to us. I've tried the various CID settings in Asterisk, but am not able to use anything but our DID numbers for our outbound caller id. My telco has been unresponsive to this issue. Does anyone know if it's possible with a PRI or do you have to have some other type of PSTN connection such as SS7? Thanks!! --Shawn Shawn, 1) When a call comes in, put the original CALLERID(number) into a variable. This way, if you mess with the real CALLERIDNUM through your dialplan you can always set it back. I like to use KKFROMCID to make sure that no scripts, Asterisk, etc mess with my original CID! 2) Get a telco that lets you set any CID. I don't know if I just look trustworthy or something, but I have had no problems whatsoever getting several LECs and CLECs in multiple states to let me set any CID I want. Looking at the other posts, it seems that some people have problems with that. I never considered it to be a big deal, just a cool privilege that you gain with a PRI... It seems that isn't the case with some telcos. 3) I don't know if this works or not, but I could swear that there is a redirect possible on PRI (similar to SIP 302). I don't know if app_transfer (and your telco) support it, but it would be really cool because it would save you in terms of the number of used channels. (Using 0 channels instead of 2). Check this thread: http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/2003-May/004594.html -- Kristian Kielhofner There's a good chance that one reason they are unresponsive is the loss of revenue - if you change the caller id number to something that is not theirs. James Taylor ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] PRI Outbound CallerID Question
On Tue, Sep 26, 2006 at 08:11:09PM -0400, Kristian Kielhofner wrote: But gratuituously making easy something that very few people have a legitimate need to do, which undermines something that -- even if you do only make the resaonable assumption that you know which phone, and not which person, is calling -- is useful and productive... is probably a Bad Idea. Full disclosure notwithstanding. jra, Sprint made the mistake. That is ridiculous... Certainly. Caller ID has not been secure for a long time. If you think that it should be made secure now, you are out of touch with reality because that is NOT going to happen. It has been made easy. It is ubiquitous. Get over it :)! Not at all. The number of ingress points to native SS7 is tiny. The number of ingress points to ISDN, while far larger, is still on the order of maybe 6-digits of sites (the end-offices), and wouldn't be all that difficult to secure at all. The only options now are to not trust caller id, ask more questions (i.e. get better identity systems and processes in place), and, as I said, enforce laws that we already have. Certainly. I think you missed my point that setting caller id in a nefarious way is almost always used as a tool in an action that is already defined as a crime. The things you are talking about doing are already illegal - whether or not you are spoofing caller id. Granted, caller id does make it easier, but if we didn't have the ability to set caller id the crooks would still be scamming, harassing, etc just like they are now. They would just be using other tools to do it or make it easier for them. Well, not all of them, actually. Telemarketers, who are constrained to send proper caller id, do not, I believe, inlcude credit bureaux, and PI pretexting is not per-se illegal either, at the moment. But let's remember one fundamental point, raised in the rollout of CNID in the first place: my phone belongs to *me*; I pay for it for *my* convenience, not that of others. The LEC's *make money* off of CNID service provision; they have, it seems to me, an obligation to make sure, collectively, that it does what they say it does. Cheers, -- jra Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth[EMAIL PROTECTED] Designer Baylink RFC 2100 Ashworth AssociatesThe Things I Think'87 e24 St Petersburg FL USA http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 That's women for you; you divorce them, and 10 years later, they stop having sex with you. -- Jennifer Crusie; _Fast_Women_ ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] PRI Outbound CallerID Question
On Tue, Sep 26, 2006 at 09:30:04PM -0400, Kristian Kielhofner wrote: Steve Totaro wrote: I set caller ID to a unique identifier before sending to a transfer partner or overflow call center. This makes it much easier to match CDRs and get stats on the outcome of calls once they leave our center. It is a very valuable and legitimate use. Am I committing a crime? nah. This is exactly what I am talking about. That is a very useful application of caller id manipulation. Why should you lose that useful feature because a few misguided people sometimes use it for nefarious purposes? Strawman, Kristian; I already covered that, and confirmed that I believe it to be an acceptable use, also, covered by agreement. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth[EMAIL PROTECTED] Designer Baylink RFC 2100 Ashworth AssociatesThe Things I Think'87 e24 St Petersburg FL USA http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 That's women for you; you divorce them, and 10 years later, they stop having sex with you. -- Jennifer Crusie; _Fast_Women_ ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] PRI Outbound CallerID Question
Jay R. Ashworth wrote: On Tue, Sep 26, 2006 at 09:30:04PM -0400, Kristian Kielhofner wrote: Steve Totaro wrote: I set caller ID to a unique identifier before sending to a transfer partner or overflow call center. This makes it much easier to match CDRs and get stats on the outcome of calls once they leave our center. It is a very valuable and legitimate use. Am I committing a crime? nah. This is exactly what I am talking about. That is a very useful application of caller id manipulation. Why should you lose that useful feature because a few misguided people sometimes use it for nefarious purposes? Strawman, Kristian; I already covered that, and confirmed that I believe it to be an acceptable use, also, covered by agreement. Cheers, -- jra jra, If someone doesn't respect laws from Congress and State legislators, they certainly aren't going to be stopped by a $0.02 civil agreement drafted by some telcos legal team... However, if such an agreement were required to ensure the reliability and quality of caller id services, I would have no problem signing one. ;) -- Kristian Kielhofner ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[asterisk-users] PRI Outbound CallerID Question
Hi all, I've searched around and haven't found much of an answer to my issue. Any advice from you would be appreciated. Problem: Need to take an inbound call from our PRI and forward it to another PSTN user via the PRI, sending the original callers id with it. I know this can be done since we currently use an 800 service that does it. You call the 800 number; they answer and put you on hold. They then outcall to the pstn numbers we have defined and the incoming call shows up with the original callers CID, we answer and have options to accept or reject the call. So I know the 800 provider is staying in the middle of the call and not just performing a redirect to us. I've tried the various CID settings in Asterisk, but am not able to use anything but our DID numbers for our outbound caller id. My telco has been unresponsive to this issue. Does anyone know if it's possible with a PRI or do you have to have some other type of PSTN connection such as SS7? Thanks!! --Shawn ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] PRI Outbound CallerID Question
Yes, it is possible. But, your Telco has to support this. Your Telco has to give you the ability to set your caller ID. Some providers (and it sounds like yours may be one of them) only allow you to use numbers which you are authorized to use (such as your DIDs). On 9/26/06, Shawn Kelley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all,I've searched around and haven't found much of an answer to my issue. Anyadvice from you would be appreciated. Problem: Need to take an inbound call from our PRI and forward it to anotherPSTN user via the PRI, sending the original callers id with it.I know this can be done since we currently use an 800 service that does it. You call the 800 number; they answer and put you on hold. They then outcallto the pstn numbers we have defined and the incoming call shows up with theoriginal callers CID, we answer and have options to accept or reject the call.So I know the 800 provider is staying in the middle of the call and not justperforming a redirect to us.I've tried the various CID settings in Asterisk, but am not able to useanything but our DID numbers for our outbound caller id. My telco has been unresponsive to this issue.Does anyone know if it's possible with a PRI or do you have to have someother type of PSTN connection such as SS7?Thanks!!--Shawn ___--Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --asterisk-users mailing listTo UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users-- Lacy MooreAspendora, Inc. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] PRI Outbound CallerID Question
Besides for what Lacy answered, have you tried NOT playing with setting CID? Just do a blind xfer, or just use dial whatever on the DID itself. If that doesn't work then like Lacy said your provider might be blocking it. On 9/26/06, Shawn Kelley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I've searched around and haven't found much of an answer to my issue. Any advice from you would be appreciated. Problem: Need to take an inbound call from our PRI and forward it to another PSTN user via the PRI, sending the original callers id with it. I know this can be done since we currently use an 800 service that does it. You call the 800 number; they answer and put you on hold. They then outcall to the pstn numbers we have defined and the incoming call shows up with the original callers CID, we answer and have options to accept or reject the call. So I know the 800 provider is staying in the middle of the call and not just performing a redirect to us. I've tried the various CID settings in Asterisk, but am not able to use anything but our DID numbers for our outbound caller id. My telco has been unresponsive to this issue. Does anyone know if it's possible with a PRI or do you have to have some other type of PSTN connection such as SS7? Thanks!! --Shawn ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [asterisk-users] PRI Outbound CallerID Question
There seems to be three tiers in my experience: 1. Only your DID's 2. Arbitrary, but the pilot number of the PRIwill appear if you suppress your Caller ID 3. Completely arbitrary, including null --this is the fa shizzle So you want 2) or 3) but definitely it is a telco thing. You need to sweetly social engineer someone in the call centre at your telco. -Original Message-From: Lacy Moore - Aspendora [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 11:50 AMTo: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial DiscussionSubject: Re: [asterisk-users] PRI Outbound CallerID Question Yes, it is possible. But, your Telco has to support this. Your Telco has to give you the ability to set your caller ID. Some providers (and it sounds like yours may be one of them) only allow you to use numbers which you are authorized to use (such as your DIDs). On 9/26/06, Shawn Kelley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all,I've searched around and haven't found much of an answer to my issue. Anyadvice from you would be appreciated. Problem: Need to take an inbound call from our PRI and forward it to anotherPSTN user via the PRI, sending the original callers id with it.I know this can be done since we currently use an 800 service that does it. You call the 800 number; they answer and put you on hold. They then outcallto the pstn numbers we have defined and the incoming call shows up with theoriginal callers CID, we answer and have options to accept or reject the call.So I know the 800 provider is staying in the middle of the call and not justperforming a redirect to us.I've tried the various CID settings in Asterisk, but am not able to useanything but our DID numbers for our outbound caller id. My telco has been unresponsive to this issue.Does anyone know if it's possible with a PRI or do you have to have someother type of PSTN connection such as SS7?Thanks!!--Shawn___--Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --asterisk-users mailing listTo UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users-- Lacy MooreAspendora, Inc. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] PRI Outbound CallerID Question
On Tue, Sep 26, 2006 at 12:49:34PM -0500, Lacy Moore - Aspendora wrote: Yes, it is possible. But, your Telco has to support this. Your Telco has to give you the ability to set your caller ID. Some providers (and it sounds like yours may be one of them) only allow you to use numbers which you are authorized to use (such as your DIDs). Specifically, carriers who permit you to connect using a technology which allows you to send originating CNID (which is basically limited to ISDN at the moment, I believe) *are supposed to* filter the CNID you present before passing it along (I believe this to be in Part 68, but can't cite it), but not all of them do. In the past, 5ESS's automatically filtered, and DMS-100's automatically didn't, though either could -- I think -- be datafilled on a trunkgroup basis to work the other way. In the OP's situation, if his carrier doesn't already forward the CNID he supplies them, then he'll likely have to sign something with the to get authorization to do it. Or, like someone said, pretext it. Oh, my; that's a bad word this year. :-) And it's not real rugged either. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth[EMAIL PROTECTED] Designer Baylink RFC 2100 Ashworth AssociatesThe Things I Think'87 e24 St Petersburg FL USA http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 That's women for you; you divorce them, and 10 years later, they stop having sex with you. -- Jennifer Crusie; _Fast_Women_ ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] PRI Outbound CallerID Question
Shawn Kelley wrote: Hi all, I've searched around and haven't found much of an answer to my issue. Any advice from you would be appreciated. Problem: Need to take an inbound call from our PRI and forward it to another PSTN user via the PRI, sending the original callers id with it. I know this can be done since we currently use an 800 service that does it. You call the 800 number; they answer and put you on hold. They then outcall to the pstn numbers we have defined and the incoming call shows up with the original callers CID, we answer and have options to accept or reject the call. So I know the 800 provider is staying in the middle of the call and not just performing a redirect to us. I've tried the various CID settings in Asterisk, but am not able to use anything but our DID numbers for our outbound caller id. My telco has been unresponsive to this issue. Does anyone know if it's possible with a PRI or do you have to have some other type of PSTN connection such as SS7? Thanks!! --Shawn Shawn, 1) When a call comes in, put the original CALLERID(number) into a variable. This way, if you mess with the real CALLERIDNUM through your dialplan you can always set it back. I like to use KKFROMCID to make sure that no scripts, Asterisk, etc mess with my original CID! 2) Get a telco that lets you set any CID. I don't know if I just look trustworthy or something, but I have had no problems whatsoever getting several LECs and CLECs in multiple states to let me set any CID I want. Looking at the other posts, it seems that some people have problems with that. I never considered it to be a big deal, just a cool privilege that you gain with a PRI... It seems that isn't the case with some telcos. 3) I don't know if this works or not, but I could swear that there is a redirect possible on PRI (similar to SIP 302). I don't know if app_transfer (and your telco) support it, but it would be really cool because it would save you in terms of the number of used channels. (Using 0 channels instead of 2). Check this thread: http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/2003-May/004594.html -- Kristian Kielhofner ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] PRI Outbound CallerID Question
On Tue, Sep 26, 2006 at 05:28:12PM -0400, Kristian Kielhofner wrote: 2) Get a telco that lets you set any CID. I don't know if I just look trustworthy or something, but I have had no problems whatsoever getting several LECs and CLECs in multiple states to let me set any CID I want. Looking at the other posts, it seems that some people have problems with that. I never considered it to be a big deal, just a cool privilege that you gain with a PRI... It seems that isn't the case with some telcos. And, um, perhaps that's not a bad thing? Y'all read this: http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000154.html and then give some more thought to whether you *should* play games with CNID... even assuming that you can. And don't give me policy's not my problem; I'm only concerned with mechanism... that's what they said at Birkenau, too. Hitler. Godwin. :-) Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth[EMAIL PROTECTED] Designer Baylink RFC 2100 Ashworth AssociatesThe Things I Think'87 e24 St Petersburg FL USA http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 That's women for you; you divorce them, and 10 years later, they stop having sex with you. -- Jennifer Crusie; _Fast_Women_ ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] PRI Outbound CallerID Question
Jay R. Ashworth wrote: On Tue, Sep 26, 2006 at 05:28:12PM -0400, Kristian Kielhofner wrote: 2) Get a telco that lets you set any CID. I don't know if I just look trustworthy or something, but I have had no problems whatsoever getting several LECs and CLECs in multiple states to let me set any CID I want. Looking at the other posts, it seems that some people have problems with that. I never considered it to be a big deal, just a cool privilege that you gain with a PRI... It seems that isn't the case with some telcos. And, um, perhaps that's not a bad thing? Y'all read this: http://lauren.vortex.com/archive/000154.html and then give some more thought to whether you *should* play games with CNID... even assuming that you can. And don't give me policy's not my problem; I'm only concerned with mechanism... that's what they said at Birkenau, too. Hitler. Godwin. :-) Cheers, -- jra jra, Quite frankly, it is not my fault that the general public and several institutions like banks, etc have poorly implemented systems on THEIR end that ASSUME that CNID is gospel and use it for all kinds of authentication purposes. Why do telcos use the ANI for billing? Because it is gospel, and as long as they are sending out bills, it always will be. If you need to authenticate based on phone number (which is ridiculous anyways), check against the ANI. If you are a legit institution that needs access to the ANI, you should have no problem getting that sent down your PRI from your telco. Obviously caller ID is a joke, and has been for some time. That ship sailed long before you and I started talking about it on Asterisk-Users. The more that people fall for invalid and spoofed caller id the better for all of us. Standard practice and public opinion need to be changed on this. I hate getting credit cards and having to activate them from my home phone number. It tells me that my credit card has no understanding of security for my account. Too bad that to make purchases in the 21st century you need a credit card, and all banks and card issuers are equally stupid. Why not connect me to a human that asks me all kinds of questions? I know they can do that because other banks (and credit bureaus, etc) have access to that info and have those processes in place. Maybe if US Weekly does a few more stories about celebs like Paris Hilton getting jacked by spoofed caller id popular opinion might be changed. Until then... What is boils down to is personal responsibility and enforcement of rules/laws that are already in place. Sure, I *COULD* drive 150mph on almost any road, but we as a society already have laws in place like speed limits that will punish me when I do. I am not forbidden from buying a Porsche (or penalized for having one) just because it can go 150mph. However, if I do, I'll go to jail. Likewise, if a predator scams someone, stalks them, etc because they have access to caller id spoofing, lock them up for theft or stalking (illegal in most states). Don't take away their PRI or the ability to set CID and punish the rest of us in the process. I'm no lawyer, but in Wisconsin (and probably other states) it is perfectly legal and acceptable to set caller id to anything you please, as long as it is not used to stalk, harass, defraud, etc. If you get busted doing that, not only do you faces charges on the original crime (stalking, theft, etc) you get another count added for faking caller id to do it. As a matter of fact, a less known fact is that if you use an FRS (Family Radio Service) walkie-talkie (or police scanner) in the commission of a crime, you just broke another (federal) law and can be prosecuted for that. There are examples of laws like this all over the place... -- Kristian Kielhofner ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] PRI Outbound CallerID Question
On Tue, Sep 26, 2006 at 07:17:57PM -0400, Kristian Kielhofner wrote: Quite frankly, it is not my fault that the general public and several institutions like banks, etc have poorly implemented systems on THEIR end that ASSUME that CNID is gospel and use it for all kinds of authentication purposes. Why do telcos use the ANI for billing? Because it is gospel, No it's not. Sprint, in the southwest, converted presented CNID to ANI and sent it along. Check the telecom archives. But this isn't germane. and as long as they are sending out bills, it always will be. If you need to authenticate based on phone number (which is ridiculous anyways), check against the ANI. If you are a legit institution that needs access to the ANI, you should have no problem getting that sent down your PRI from your telco. Indeed. But that's not on point, either. Obviously caller ID is a joke, and has been for some time. That ship sailed long before you and I started talking about it on Asterisk-Users. The more that people fall for invalid and spoofed caller id the better for all of us. Standard practice and public opinion need to be changed on this. I understand your point, but I'm of two minds on this, as I am on the current ATM password fracas, and for the same reasons. I hate getting credit cards and having to activate them from my home phone number. It tells me that my credit card has no understanding of security for my account. Too bad that to make purchases in the 21st century you need a credit card, and all banks and card issuers are equally stupid. Indeed it is. Why not connect me to a human that asks me all kinds of questions? I know they can do that because other banks (and credit bureaus, etc) have access to that info and have those processes in place. Oh yeah, they can ask you *useful* questions. Like your mother's maiden name. And your SSN. :-) Maybe if US Weekly does a few more stories about celebs like Paris Hilton getting jacked by spoofed caller id popular opinion might be changed. Until then... Indeed. What is boils down to is personal responsibility and enforcement of rules/laws that are already in place. Sure, I *COULD* drive 150mph on almost any road, but we as a society already have laws in place like speed limits that will punish me when I do. I am not forbidden from buying a Porsche (or penalized for having one) just because it can go 150mph. However, if I do, I'll go to jail. Precisely. You're saying that not spoofing caller ID is not part of the American Social Contract, then? Likewise, if a predator scams someone, stalks them, etc because they have access to caller id spoofing, lock them up for theft or stalking (illegal in most states). Don't take away their PRI or the ability to set CID and punish the rest of us in the process. I'm no lawyer, but in Wisconsin (and probably other states) it is perfectly legal and acceptable to set caller id to anything you please, as long as it is not used to stalk, harass, defraud, etc. If you get busted doing that, not only do you faces charges on the original crime (stalking, theft, etc) you get another count added for faking caller id to do it. The need to send CNID not your own for non-nefarious purposes (see the HP pretexting scam, and if you *don't* think that's going to dribble over into telemarketers sending fake CNID, TCPA notwithstanding, then you're nuts) is rare enough that I have no problem requiring the telcos to get a signed agreement from clients to turn off the filters. As a matter of fact, a less known fact is that if you use an FRS (Family Radio Service) walkie-talkie (or police scanner) in the commission of a crime, you just broke another (federal) law and can be prosecuted for that. There are examples of laws like this all over the place... Sure. But gratuituously making easy something that very few people have a legitimate need to do, which undermines something that -- even if you do only make the resaonable assumption that you know which phone, and not which person, is calling -- is useful and productive... is probably a Bad Idea. Full disclosure notwithstanding. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth[EMAIL PROTECTED] Designer Baylink RFC 2100 Ashworth AssociatesThe Things I Think'87 e24 St Petersburg FL USA http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 That's women for you; you divorce them, and 10 years later, they stop having sex with you. -- Jennifer Crusie; _Fast_Women_ ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] PRI Outbound CallerID Question
Jay R. Ashworth wrote: But gratuituously making easy something that very few people have a legitimate need to do, which undermines something that -- even if you do only make the resaonable assumption that you know which phone, and not which person, is calling -- is useful and productive... is probably a Bad Idea. Full disclosure notwithstanding. Cheers, -- jra jra, Sprint made the mistake. That is ridiculous... Caller ID has not been secure for a long time. If you think that it should be made secure now, you are out of touch with reality because that is NOT going to happen. It has been made easy. It is ubiquitous. Get over it :)! The only options now are to not trust caller id, ask more questions (i.e. get better identity systems and processes in place), and, as I said, enforce laws that we already have. I think you missed my point that setting caller id in a nefarious way is almost always used as a tool in an action that is already defined as a crime. The things you are talking about doing are already illegal - whether or not you are spoofing caller id. Granted, caller id does make it easier, but if we didn't have the ability to set caller id the crooks would still be scamming, harassing, etc just like they are now. They would just be using other tools to do it or make it easier for them. -- Kristian Kielhofner ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] PRI Outbound CallerID Question
Kristian Kielhofner wrote: Jay R. Ashworth wrote: But gratuituously making easy something that very few people have a legitimate need to do, which undermines something that -- even if you do only make the resaonable assumption that you know which phone, and not which person, is calling -- is useful and productive... is probably a Bad Idea. Full disclosure notwithstanding. Cheers, -- jra jra, Sprint made the mistake. That is ridiculous... Caller ID has not been secure for a long time. If you think that it should be made secure now, you are out of touch with reality because that is NOT going to happen. It has been made easy. It is ubiquitous. Get over it :)! The only options now are to not trust caller id, ask more questions (i.e. get better identity systems and processes in place), and, as I said, enforce laws that we already have. I think you missed my point that setting caller id in a nefarious way is almost always used as a tool in an action that is already defined as a crime. The things you are talking about doing are already illegal - whether or not you are spoofing caller id. Granted, caller id does make it easier, but if we didn't have the ability to set caller id the crooks would still be scamming, harassing, etc just like they are now. They would just be using other tools to do it or make it easier for them. -- Kristian Kielhofner I set caller ID to a unique identifier before sending to a transfer partner or overflow call center. This makes it much easier to match CDRs and get stats on the outcome of calls once they leave our center. It is a very valuable and legitimate use. Am I committing a crime? nah. We use and trust ANI, not caller ID although I think I read you can manipulate ANI if you have an SS7 link. I have yet to play with SS7. Thanks, Steve Totaro ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] PRI Outbound CallerID Question
Steve Totaro wrote: I set caller ID to a unique identifier before sending to a transfer partner or overflow call center. This makes it much easier to match CDRs and get stats on the outcome of calls once they leave our center. It is a very valuable and legitimate use. Am I committing a crime? nah. We use and trust ANI, not caller ID although I think I read you can manipulate ANI if you have an SS7 link. I have yet to play with SS7. Thanks, Steve Totaro Steve, This is exactly what I am talking about. That is a very useful application of caller id manipulation. Why should you lose that useful feature because a few misguided people sometimes use it for nefarious purposes? -- Kristian Kielhofner ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
