Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community I'd also like to offer my support - if you want to leave, then that's your call and nobody elses.If people decide they want to insult you because of this decision, then I think they're pretty much providing more evidence to back you up.Best of luck to you. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=232673#p232673 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community That kind of behavior, unfortunately, isnt unique to the blind and visually impaired communities, it goes on in most, if not all, Internet communities.Part of the problem is that most Internet communities, including this one, allow the use of handles and very little real world or real life information about its members. With such anonymity, nobody knows who they really are, so they act badly with the only possible reprisal being that they get banned from the community, and if they used a disposable email address, and most of them do, theyll be back to cause more trouble.Thats why I use my real name as my handle, and my non-disposable email address on the Internet communities I join. I want to show that I am willing to be responsible for my actions, and that I dont intend to cause any trouble.Im not saying that everyone that uses a handle is out to cause trouble since most people use them. Im just saying that if you couldn 39;t be anonymous on forums like these, forum trolls (as they are commonly called) would not be so common. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223000#p223000 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community Oddly enough, once someone gets themselves banned that is usually that. I tend to find trolls who just exist to be trolls are less common on this forum, or are very much easier to spot and deal with anyway, than people who simply cannot have a civilized disagreement and degenerate into name calling. In a lot of cases, people will take moderation warnings in the spirit in which theyre meant and leave off. However, in other cases people just dont have the maturity to back off from an arguement or to disagree amicably, and in those cases those are the people who get banned. Even with bans, Ive known people who recieve a temporary ban and then grow up and have become valuable members later, although some havent. What is more an issue I find is mob mentality, when an arguement escalates, usually with a small vocal minority and a large vocal majority or people who attempt to sit on the fence of the arguement but get drawn into one side or the other. In some of those cases its possible to head the flame train off at the pass, in others it unfortunately is not and that usually results in topic closure and often someone getting warnings or bans. Still, one of the more interesting balancing acts I find as a moderator is being in the position of not wanting! to use brute force tactics like bans etc, sinse generally the more you resort to such things the more you will have to, but at the same time being willing to do so as and when necessary, which I can say is less often than people might think. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223008#p223008 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community Yeah, I know all about forum moderating and administration, as I was our departments forum moderator and administrator mainly because nobody else was willing to do it. I didnt care, for the most part I enjoyed it, but there were a few moments when I wanted to reach out and choke someone! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223013#p223013 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
2015-07-07
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : themadviolinist via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community Some thoughts from someone who is quite old compared to most of you, (Im in my mid forties.)First of all, people are people, and whether its here, Google Plus, Facebook, LiveJournal, or a good double dozen other fora Ive participated in, there are people who either dont know how to conduct civil conversations when things get hot, or who dont give a tinkers damn. Believe me, this is not unique to the blind community. We do have our particular cultural anomalies, but they are small compared to the common issues that plague on-line discussions everywhere. I refer you to the phenomenon known as gamergate that dominated the tech news for about three months earlier this year that resulted in some truly dreadful and misogynistic behavior on the part of so-called grownups, and the kerfuffle over the Hugo awards. Google these if you arent familiar, gamergate or sad puppies.Next obvious statement, ther e is a reason why people in most countries have to be of a certain age before being given responsibilities over lethal accident vectors, such as cars, aircraft and the voting booth. The on line world is a space that allows for much more freedom of younger people than most other spaces. This is probably a net bonus, since old farts like me need to be shaken out of our complacency. But there is a cost in inexperience, in incivility, in the fact that teen agers are simply aliens, most of whom dont know how to feed themselves well, do laundry properly or take any account of money, let alone deal with the responsibilities of running a complex on-line game that requires good security, the ability to consider consequences and so forth. I know from experience, I was one, and Ive raised two, with two more in the pipeline, God help me.A lot of the drama referred to here seems to me simply the radioactivity of children, and is not necessarily worth wri ting off a community. Those of us who are older and have more life experience need to be in the position of mentors and guides, and perhaps not judge too harshly. Those of you who are the aforementioned aliens, (sorry, but truth is truth, and if you survive it you will get better) please cut the rest of us some slack too.We all come from such diverse backgrounds, that blindness is, surprisingly to some of you, one of the least important things we have to share with one another. That said, it is important to remember that my experience of blindness, being in the first cohort of blind children who were put in public schools (or government-run schools for you britts) is very different from that of someone growing up today in a country with few resources to work with. I was damned lucky; being born even a couple years sooner would have condemned me to having no choice about how I was educated. Blindness is not the central fact of my existence, that wo uld be the lovely woman who foolishly consented to marry me ten years ago, and the avatars of chaos that claim to be her children. Others of you have come to different terms with your blindness and who am I to judge, given the differences in our history.People have been complaining about Freedom Scientific since it was Henter-Joyce. There are a lot of reasons why they developed the way they did, and there are a lot of modern-day market forces that are stressing their business model to the breaking point. JFW is still a nice piece of kit that I no longer use, but if it works for you, God bless, kiss kiss and lets go on.So, if you have a beef with internet forum chatting, that I get, but I think youre misattributing some of the problems you see to this and other such like being a blind-specific affinity group. For every drama queen Ive run across here, Ive found a ton of people who are respectful, helpful and love sharing the ir enthusiasm for our hobby of audio games. Ive had lovely discussions with people, even when we are vehemently disagreeing on another topic about such things as religion, or something equally important, the future of Swamp. Im not here every day, and I hardly read every topic, so I often miss the worst of the drama, because it takes place on discussion threads I dont normally follow, so I hear about it as an indirect reference somewhere else.So Id urge you not to give up on us just yet. Weve survived the hacking Swamp year, debates over same sex marriage, and well survive the poor security practices of people who either dont know any better or choose to be slipshod. Its ok, that will sort itself out over time. Hot button topics will come and go, tempers will fray under disagreement, but on the whole, we do pretty well. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223099#p223099 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community I agree with your sentiments, but I can also sympathize with people who say, enough is enough! Whether theyre justified in placing blame on the blind community as a whole or not, and, as an aside, I have always despised the term blind community, its human nature to lump all bad behavior in the same group. So blind teen hackers are getting a bad reputation at the moment. I feel that it would be more productive to deal with each individual as a separate entity, but I can also relate to just getting so enraged with things that appear to have become the status quo that I get sucked into thinking that at least certain subsections of this so-called blind community are bad. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223101#p223101 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community I am in fact growing somewhat weary of the incessant complaints about the blind community. While I used to somewhat agree with it, I wonder how founded the complaints actually are. Remember that everyone who is complaining is essentially also part of this community. Radios you have to tune as well if you want to listen to something useful. There are plenty of tv channels with programs that I would not listen to at all. maybe the same concept applies here, just tune the villains out, or switch channels so that youre involved with something more fun. It really disappoints me to see that there are now two topics about the blind community on the first page of the off-topic room containing mostly complaints which apply to pretty much all communities.Theres plenty of places where blind people dont get accepted at all by the sighted, its no good hating on the sighted community for this reason either, nor is it good to despise everyone in the blind community except a select few because a couple of particularly noisy people decided to say something obnoxious. The same goes for the playroom as well, Ive never found it particularly hard to stay clear of the drama. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=223017#p223017 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community Hi. I can see both sides of the ball here, but others have already stated what I wanted to so I wont repeat whats been already said. While were on the subject of vision, I have slitely enough, in both eyes to see pictures and my surroundings. However, a lot of things tend to get blurry when in constant motion, hents is why I wouldnt be able to see whats going on the tv for instants. Moving to the subject of younger game devs, every time this gets braught up, and since my game is an online game, I always for some reason have a feer that my game is one of the games being referd too here. In case it is, id just like to say that while I am by no means a perfect admin, I do try to run the game to the best of my abilitys. Getting back on topic though, id just like to say this, I can see both positive sides of the sited and the blind communitys. As for here, while ive had my bad moments, and difficultys, its all part of the learning expirie nce, and ive found that each bad moment here gives way to a better time, where ive learned something new. In a lot of ways, this community has helpt me to better myself, the same with the sited community as well. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222927#p222927 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community People like the audazle project and the ones that make Flarestar, I currently forget there names, are the devs I respect because they take feedback in stride. So positive feedback makes them happier and they strive to make more games, and negative comments let them know where to improve and they dont start fights like some devs do. Seeing a flame war burst out over simple things like who leads or holds a project, who hacked what etc etc. is vastly irritating. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222916#p222916 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community I used to think that people who are born blind are better off than those that lose their vision later in life, as I have. My thinking was that those who are born blind, having never had vision, dont know what theyre missing, but those that lose their vision later in life suffer a major and traumatic loss.But now I wonder if it really isnt the other way around, that despite the trauma of losing your vision, suffering that trauma is better than being so sheltered by well meaning parents that you can barely function on your own. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222917#p222917 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community I used to think that people who are born blind are better off than those that lose their vision later in life, as I have. My thinking was that those who are born blind, having never had vision, dont know what theyre missing, but those that lose their vision later in life suffer a major and traumatic loss.But now I wonder if it really isnt the other way around, that despite the trauma of losing your vision, suffering that trauma is better than being so sheltered by well meaning parents that you can barely function on your own.--I cant say the same thing about the developers of Flairstar, a.k.a. Ticonblu. After buy The Inquisitor Part One, and finding it buggy to the point that the game could not be completed, and finding that the developer didnt seem to care that he sold me a known defective product. After that experience, I will never buy anything from Ticonblu again. And Im not alone in being screwed by Ticonblu.SSo, of course he isnt going to start any dramas here, because hell very likely be roasted alive by the people hes sold junk to. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222917#p222917 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community I certainly wasnt referring to Deathmatch either. I couldnt say one way or the other, having never played it, but I havent heard any complaints about it either.As for the hacking and such in Swamp, Aprone handled that situation like the mature adult he is. And, as has been stated, the reason so many of these other games have so many problems is that younger devs lack experience, and the forethought to really care about the security of their player base. I know thats harsh, but it appears to be true. And Im not the kind of person who can just sit back and not give a shit when I know, intimately, some of the things that go on. I am really trying not to bring specifics into this, for several reasons, but the point is, I dont think its a smart idea for anyone to play games that are written by people who have confessed to being hackers, or at the very least have dabbled in writing malware. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222985#p222985 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community One of the most infuriating things is when people will come onto the forum for the sole reason to start flame wars. Theyll start a topic, escalate drama, next thing you know, such immature words as fuckerface and bastardfuck or whatever is the newest combination of conventional swear words. I find it unbelievably childish and it makes me lose faith in our next generation. It makes me scared to be part of that generation. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222996#p222996 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community I am by no means stating that the sighted comunity is free of drama. However, the fact that the drama is such commonplace is what puts me off about the blind community. For example, last week I found 2 15 year olds fighting and when I asked what the argument was about they resorted to the he started it card. In yet other places, people will be extremely jealous about everything. Again, I know its not just the blind community. However, how the members of said community react upon there jealousy is unbelievably childish. Now I know it may only be with younger developers, but they will most likely be the people who will make games for the next generation of audio gamers. Its honestly quite scary to think that some of these developers are older than me yet they show such immaturity. That is one of the basses on which my decision is set, and I do not think I will change my mind. Im also quite tired of being ridiculed, or feeling that way, when I dont know something about technology. I know how petty I may sound but it has gone on for so long Ive grown tired of it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222894#p222894 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community My response to being ridiculed when I dont know something is to ask my heckler something I know he doesnt that I do, that usually puts them in their place. Your question doesnt have to be about the same or similar thing you didnt have an answer to, the point is to subtly tell the detractor that they dont know everything either, but its more effective if it is. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222898#p222898 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community @CWI agree with you, the decisions, the behavior and many many other things are indicated by the country where people live, and the culture they own. The more years I pass, the more disability Im seeing on the young blind children. The point is, they are used to get things plain in front of them right on the table. What Im intending to say by On the table, is that they are used, not necessarily by themselves, to have everything ready. This idea is even grown harder by their parents by isolating their children. Imagine getting everything ready for you. You want your clothes, they are served by your parents. You want a glass of cold water, that is served by your parents. You want to plug in your computer, that is again served by your parents.What the heck is this blind folk supposed to do?The situation gets even worse when these blind kids do not try to change anything because they feel good with it. When I went to the pub lic school, I remember some of students and teachers who intended to help me with everything and let me do nothing. But I was feeling very disabled in this situation and I told them Im not a king or prince to have everything delivered by somebody else. Yes they wanted to even open my laptops lit because they thought I couldnt do it myself. Primarily, This is not a bad thing because they just want to help you and I never took it for granted, but in this way you are making yourself much more disabled.Then we come to the point you mentioned.Problems on acting with the people in daily lifeBasically Itll happen if parents of these blind kids will not change their attitudes towards their children and the consequences will bring about later on their ongoing life. I think the situation has changed to what it has been ten years ago regarding disability of blind children. We were different. Not that Im old though, Im jus t 19. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222904#p222904 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community @CWI agree with you, the decisions, the behavior and many many other things are indicated by the country where people live, and the culture they own. The more years I pass, the more disability Im seeing on the young blind children. The point is, they are used to get things plain in front of them right on the table. What Im intending to say by On the table, is that they are used, not necessarily by themselves, to have everything ready. This idea is even grown harder by their parents by isolating their children. Imagine getting everything ready for you. You want your clothes, they are served by your parents. You want a glass of cold water, that is served by your parents. You want to plug in your computer, that is again done by your parents.What the heck is this blind folk supposed to do?The situation gets even worse when these blind kids do not try to change anything because they feel good with it. When I went to the publi c school, I remember some of students and teachers who intended to help me with everything and let me do nothing. But I was feeling very disabled in this situation and I told them Im not a king or prince to have everything delivered by somebody else. Yes they wanted to even open my laptops lit because they thought I couldnt do it myself. Primarily, This is not a bad thing because they just want to help you and I never took it for granted, but in this way you are making yourself much more disabled.Then we come to the point you mentioned.Problems on acting with the people in daily lifeBasically Itll happen if parents of these blind kids will not change their attitudes towards their children and the consequences will bring about later on their ongoing life. I think the situation has changed to what it has been ten years ago regarding disability of blind children. We were different. Not that Im old though, Im just 19. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222904#p222904 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community I am a little surprised at the comments on Ticonblu, sinse Ive both always found them very easy to deal with and a nice bunch who take cryticism, and in the three titles Ive played extensively, inquisitors heartbeat and she noire were both fine (she noire needed a little script tightening but that is not a ug), and the inquisitor chapter 1 was only buggy in so far as it closed down once on me, and the registering of the cross gesture seemed rather screwy. I was still able to finish the game however with no trouble. Admitedly, that was on Ios so I cant speak for any other version of the game, but it does surprise me nonetheless, still if issues are reported and the developers actually arent responding that isnt good. As to online games, no Danny, I wasnt thinking of deathmatch specifically, although I do believe it was dmnb that started the craze off last christmas. With sight levels, what a person loses or wha tever is a different question, however I am not exactly convinced myself that the idea of a specialist environment where everything is done for you is correct. From what Ive seen myself, if anything it is the opposite way around, in specialist institutions and things run for the blind people are taught to get what their given and like it and not! to atempt to look outside the system. Whether the behaviour people have noticed is a reaction against that, after all to people who feel they have been controlled and have very ittle choice, even miner exertions of power are a victory, (look at some of the arguements prisoners have over petty things like space), Im not sure. One thing I will however warn people of when these discussions start is runing into prejudice. It is a common cognitive bias to look around and find specific examples that support a hypothesis, simply because a person believes they do, ie, Jo is being a complete dou chenozzle because Jo is blind, rather than just Jo is being a complete douchenozzle because jo is! a complete douchenozzle! . Im not saying that the fact that a person has grown up living with being blind and all the ways they might have been treated because of that doesnt have an effect, just to be very careful when analysing those effects, sinse its a little too easy to start making unfalsifyable claims and moving into prejudice teretory, and anyone who is in any way disabled already has far too much of that from everybody else to eal with. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222954#p222954 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community Most communities that wind up multigenerational tend to have these periods each time a new generation pops in where the newer generation has bouts of drama. Most of the drama around here lately seems to come from the newer developers yelling at each other.If things work out the way they have elsewhere, most of them should either cool down or get themselves banned over the course of a few months. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222747#p222747 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community @Gene, In the topic on the blind community I mentioned distancing myself from blind organizations, not this forum sinse I tend to find the two groups, the blind as community institutions go, and audio gamers tend to be different. I will not discuss the freedom scientific topic sinse Ive just posted a moderation message there, however one thing I will say is to remember the proverb evil shouts, good whispers, indeed one thing I will say about the forum is people are remarkably quick to remember the bad occurrences but dont tend to remember as much of the good stuff.I have noticed myself that on any forum not just this one, when an arguement starts the band wagon gets rolling and everyone jumps on. That is what moderators are for and why our faq clearly states to respect others while sharing opinions. while Im very sorry you as a new member happened to run into one of these juggernaughts of flame, equally Id s uggest that perhaps you, and ghost rider and anyone else actually start reporting these situations, (obviously myself and the other mods cant read every topic there is), sinse the forum has gone on for a very long time quite amicably, and Id much rather these things got resolved, indeed its quite amazing how once you stop the band wagon everyone can get off and be quite peaceful. Frequently, its not actually what someones opinion is, but how they express it that counts and unfortunately language is an escalating thing, ie, if one person starts calling something crap other people will too. I do agree the just ignore it putoff is very irritating, sinse it really does go against the free speech and mutual respect ethos that we usually try to promote, indeed Ive debated writing a list of forum dos and donts (mostly donts), including this reason. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222739#p222739 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community Ghost Rider, while I do get what you are saying I also think you are letting a few bad apples spoil your opinion of what is a fairly decent community in the main. The reason I say that is I have been on the web for close to twenty years, and the fact is I have been on both blind and sighted forums, chat rooms, and while there certainly are individuals in the blind community that act childish, immature, and behave inappropriately I have been around the web enough these last two decades to know there are some mainstream communities that are just as bad as not worse. It just all depends on what subject you are on, and how volatile it gets. I have seen some pretty spectacular flame wars on mainstream forums that make the childish stuff that goes on here seem pretty minor in comparison. So lets not point fingers and judge the entire blind community based on a handful of immature and childish individuals. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222740#p222740 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community hi.I agree. Its strange but theres not much we can do about the protecting thing. Its not good in my opinion. Sure protect to a sertain extent but there needs to be a stopping line and that line should not be crossed.I have seen a lot of drama on the playroom and dont go on there that much because of it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222789#p222789 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community Dark wrote:Also to be honest if you think sighted forums and communities are free from this kind of drama, it sounds like you havent seen too many.This sounds like the Line of the year to me, I dont think dark could say it better - If you think that drama only exist for the Blind community, I would disagree with you. Just read some random forum posts from Insert site of interest and observe while adults fight over something very childish in over 500 posts.In any case, Whatever choice and course you have set for yourself, I wish you the best, and socializations free of any sort of drama. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222797#p222797 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community @Some of youWell, I agree that there are many problems going on in the blind community, especially in some forums, but that doesnt necessarily mean that all are the same. With this state, you are reminding me a generalised opinion of the mainstream sited people who think that all blind people are equally the same. They cannot study, they cannot learn, they are unable to help themselves in their daily life, etc etc etc. I registered in this forum about 9 or 10 months ago, and Ive seen a very good community, far far better than the other ones. Its true that some people in the blind community act extremely childishly. Ive seen pretty much more childish behavior in the other forums, like Playroom, when a person would report another in the public forum, and the posts would flow 90 comments per day. That went so bad that the admin stated that he got mad by that post and decided to close the topic because everything felt like a game or fairytale for a three year old child.These kind of things are supposed to happen even in the sited forums, arent they?Fortunately blindness is a disability which is supposed to cause problems to the vision not to the brain. So there are very bad people, immature, mentally disorganized, but there are also very good and intelligent blind people as well who will pleasurely get along with you and you will enjoy every single discussion.Thank you for taking the time to read this post and please do not get all blinds stuck in the same category.Have a good time. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222765#p222765 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community @Some of youWell, I agree that there are many problems going on in the blind community, especially in some forums, but that doesnt necessarily mean that all are the same. With this state, you are reminding me a generalised opinion of the mainstream sited people who think that all blind people are equally the same. They cannot study, they cannot learn, they are unable to help themselves in their daily life, etc etc etc. I registered in this forum about 9 or 10 months ago, and Ive seen a very good community, far far better than the other ones. Its true that some people in the blind community act extremely childish. Ive seen pretty much more childish behavior in the other forums, like Playroom, when a person would report another in the public forum, and the posts would flow 90 comments per day. That went so bad that the admin stated that he got mad by that post and decided to close the topic because everything felt like a game or fairytale for a three y ear old child.These kinds of things are supposed to happen even in the sited forums, arent they?Fortunately blindness is a disability which is supposed to cause problems to the vision not to the brain. So there are very bad people, immature, mentally disorganized, but there are also very good and intelligent blind people as well who will pleasurely get along with you and you will enjoy every single discussion.Thank you for taking the time to read this post and please do not get all blinds stuck in the same category.Have a good time. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222765#p222765 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
2015-07-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community Hello all,Here is my point of view. I love audio games. That is, I love to develop, play, and talk about them, which is the reason I have not left the forum. Ive seen the drama, I used to be part of it myself, but that stopped a couple of months ago. But back to the subject at hand, I will not leave this forum simply for the fact that there are! supportive people, civilized people, people who can help with any technical issues I have, people who make wonderful games and play and support any that I make myself, people that have some sense in their brains, --- and those are the people, in my opinion, that keep this community running. The moderators, while they do a great job in most cases of stomping out the drama that comes about, are not what drives this forum; its the people. and I dont mean the immature drama magnets, I mean the tens, (maybe even hundreds because I dont bother to count), of people who are there to help, discuss, an d play games with. I have decided to be one of those people. So when there are topics with drama in them now a days, I mostly either have a brief look and laugh before hitting the close button, or skip them entirely. Because I could leave this community all I want, just to join a sighted community. But then what? Id find 20 or so drama topics within 6 months as I have here and leave that one too. So what would be the point? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222810#p222810 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community It depends upon the online game, its security and how its run. There are many extremely good browser games and muds that entirely missout on the hacking and associated drama. Likewise, while there were trouble makers on Swamp through a lot of work on Aprones part I believe that situation has become managable, and really the worlds first audio multiplayer fps is definitely something. The issue with online games seems to be entirely that of younger, newer developers who begin a project without certain levels of experience or stability. IN some cases this leads to games that by rights should have been practice example games or should have considderably more work and thought put into them going live and all the accompanying drama. In other cases it leads to games being launched without adequate security or experienced moderation, or still worse, newer developers getting into arguements with their own friends or colleagues, arguements that of ten result in a lot of petty and malicious behaviour, often doubly worse because such people have privilidged access to the code.Unfortunately it is a trend, that everyone suddenly wants to create an online game, but perhaps should think more carefully before doing so, and yes, its resulted in a lot of agro although the agro is more based on that situation and its not too different to other major arguements that have arisen in the past resulting from a certain trend in thinking which perhaps isnt thought through sufficiently. Itll die out in the end though, these things always do, anyone who was here a few years ago remember the row over accents? or the everyone complain about the database episode? as with most things, this too shal pass, however if everyone jumps ship at the first sign of bad weather, well itll be a pretty empty ship, and bad weather does tend to be fairly universal in any communit y, at some point in time. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222880#p222880 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community @Turtle;The problem with some players hacking, cheating, and otherwise trashing online games, I suspect is mostly kids that dont know any better or simply dont care how their actions might effect others. It is these troublemakers and the problems they cause that is my primary reason for not playing online games. The few times I did try online gaming, I found I didnt enjoy it as much as I enjoyed playing offline, so now I dont even consider it an option. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222873#p222873 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community Hi all,Well, I can see both sides of this.The thing is, Ghost Rider has a point. Not because blindness-specific forums have less drama, but because when drama happens here, it seems to pile on all at once. Were not talking about a Tumblr post where literally 20,000 people could comment. Here, the same people tend to get into the same old petty fights.Furthermore, I can think of a couple of newer audio games that are so poorly run that it makes me sick to think about. Im not going to mention names, but, because I am closer to one of these situations than I would like to be, I hear about things all the time that truly make my blood boil. Security risks, hacking, general immaturity, and so forth, are things that I hear about on a daily basis, because I happen to be close to someone who plays a big part in running one of these games. And I find myself getting more and more frustrated, because everybody is just going on their merry way, not caring at all a bout whats really going on, because these people are young and lack life experience.So to be honest, I can see why Ghost Rider is frustrated. But Dark is also correct that the internet is really a black hole of drama if thats what you seek. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222863#p222863 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Distancing myself from the blind community
Distancing myself from the blind community Hello everyone. So in the past few days, Ive been leaning away from the blind community. Ive been hanging out with my sighted girlfriend and her sisters and there boyfriends on twitter and there was only one drama that happened last night. However, in my experience, the blind community has started to resemble a cesspool of angst, drama, and immaturity, with a few small oases of calm, civilized individuals. Those are the people I will remain in contact with. Ive lost so much faith in the blind community after reading a topic chock full of drama. It looked to me like 2 year olds fighting over a ball. However, in the sighted community, civility is so much easier to come by and I love it there. Most of them are accepting and Ive made so many new friends. Please keep in mind Im not targetting any individual person on this forum but some of you, be it over skype, twitter or online games, have lost my respect and faith. I think myself above none of you, howe ver some peoples actions have caused me great annoyance. I wish you all the best in whatever goals you have for the future. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222682#p222682 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community which community are you talking about? I mean here in the audio games? anywhere else? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222689#p222689 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community Hi.I couldnt agree more with this post. TO be honest its not just on here. Ive seen it so much on the Playroom, on the zone bbs. Its kind of sad to be honest. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222687#p222687 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community Id ask the same as Afrim, sinse the blind community in general and the audio gaming community specifically are different. Also to be honest if you think sighted forums and communities are free from this kind of drama, it sounds like you havent seen too many. Actually, to be honest from what youve said it sounds more as if your objection isnt to the blind community specifically, but is comparing the situation of hanging out with my sighted girlfriend and her sisters and there boyfriends on Twitter As to being part of a large and diverse forum. Head over to gamefaqs and check some of the boards there if you dont believe me, or have a look at retroremakes.com, still worse forums devoted to say relationship or psychological issues. Of course how much you participate in any community is very much your decision, however from what you describe I do wonder whether your correctly inter preting the facts. It is rather like an American friend I had who thought the Uk was much nicer than the Us because she was comparing living in a huge, bussling city of columbia with the small market town of Buxton far in the country, I doubt shed have said the same if seeing the inner city center of a big British city like London or Bermingham. Im not saying discussion of blindness in general and community institutions isnt a valid activity, I just question whether your interpretation of the facts here and your decision to distance yourself is up to you. For a start, I can certainly! tell you that back when this forum started and had fewer than fifty members, Drama was literally unknown, indeed I dont think we had hour first real instance of such before 2009, and it certainly didnt become a concern until 2012, even now I will say myself and the other moderators do try to keep things to a minimum. Of course if you w ant to leave, well its up to you, Id suggest however you think about things first and make sure you have your facts and reasons correct. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222706#p222706 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community @afrim;Brad mentioned this forum and The Zone, another online community of visually impaired people, and there are other similar communities.I too have to agree with Ghost Writer and Brad. I lost my vision to an aggressive form of glaucoma two years ago. For most of the past two years, I was in a deep depression over my vision loss. I wasnt interested in doing anything or socializing. I just stayed shut in in my apartment and listened to audio books all day. But now in the past month, Ive started coming out of the depression, Im reaching out to people Ive lost contact with over the past two years, reconnecting with family. and Im getting interested in doing something useful with myself again, before I lost my vision, I was a software developer, so now Im getting back into that, Ive decided that I want to learn to develop audio games. I have a couple of ideas, and I also have ideas for a couple of programs that visually impair ed people might find useful. In other words, things are looking up!When I found this community, I thought Id found a great place to hang out and socialize with people who might have similar points of view and outlooks because they were also visually impaired as I am. But over time, the way some people here behave, I find myself leaning away from this community and towards those communities Id been a member of since before I lost my vision. As Ghost Writer said, I found they are generally happier, friendlier, and are very accepting that despite my blindness, I can be a useful member of the community. I find I enjoy their community more than I like this one.An example: I;m taking a look at the NVDA screen reader as a possible alternative to JAWS. Since I would be actively comparing the two screen readers, I thought my comments would be welcome in the modern day comparison of NVDA and JAWS topic, what I got instead was to be ridiculed for my choice of file man ager instead of Windows explorer and a remark that because the writer changes his own settings when he needs to he cant help me with mine, how does changing his own settings when he needs to prevent him from helping anyone else with theirs, unless hes just saying, I could help you, but I dont want to, what the heck? And besides, I never asked for any help from anyone, I was just relating some of the issues I was encountering. As a community, we should be helping each other or at the very least, respecting each other and our choices, not the ridicule and disdain Ive seen people show to other peoples choices just because they dont agree with theirs. Too often Ive seen people ridiculed because they choose to use and like JAWS instead of NVDA, , or, in my case because I choose to use a file manager other than Windows explorer. Not only is that not right, its unacceptable and shows a lack of tolerance and maturity.When the topic of F reedom Scientifics ridiculous license agreement turned up, people here start calling Freedom Scientific childish name, and wish misfortune on its employees by wanting the company to go out of business so they lose their jobs. When I complained about what I thought was childish behavior, they told me to shut up and ignore them if I didnt like it. Whats ironic is that while they were trying to suppress my right to speak my opinion they were speaking their own. Sorry, but it doesnt work that way unless you are a despotic ruler. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222711#p222711 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community I agree. People should treat others with respect here and show that this community is a place of helping, learning, and friendship rather than this place where people shoot down others opinions. Im sorry that new members are enduring this, and I want to help you in any way I can that there are those that will reach out in friendship and help a fellow blind person. I hope the rest of the community could do the same.Thank you. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222713#p222713 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community @afrim;Brad mentioned this forum and The Zone, another online community of visually impaired people, and there are other similar communities.@Dark;If I recall correcly, in the disappointed with the blind community topic, you yourself said that you were distancing yourself from the blind and visually impaired communities and preferred to be with your sighted friends for the very same or similar reasons that Ghost Writer mentioned.--I too have to agree with Ghost Writer and Brad. I lost my vision to an aggressive form of glaucoma two years ago. For most of the past two years, I was in a deep depression over my vision loss. I wasnt interested in doing anything or socializing. I just stayed shut in in my apartment and listened to audio books all day. But now in the past month, Ive started coming out of the depression, Im reaching out to people Ive lost contact with over the past two years, reconnecting with family . and Im getting interested in doing something useful with myself again, before I lost my vision, I was a software developer, so now Im getting back into that, Ive decided that I want to learn to develop audio games. I have a couple of ideas, and I also have ideas for a couple of programs that visually impaired people might find useful. In other words, things are looking up!When I found this community, I thought Id found a great place to hang out and socialize with people who might have similar points of view and outlooks because they were also visually impaired as I am. But over time, the way some people here behave, I find myself leaning away from this community and towards those communities Id been a member of since before I lost my vision. As Ghost Writer said, I found they are generally happier, friendlier, and are very accepting that despite my blindness, I can be a useful member of the community. I find I enjoy their community more than I like this one.An example: I;m taking a look at the NVDA screen reader as a possible alternative to JAWS. Since I would be actively comparing the two screen readers, I thought my comments would be welcome in the modern day comparison of NVDA and JAWS topic, what I got instead was to be ridiculed for my choice of file manager instead of Windows explorer and a remark that because the writer changes his own settings when he needs to he cant help me with mine, how does changing his own settings when he needs to prevent him from helping anyone else with theirs, unless hes just saying, I could help you, but I dont want to, what the heck? And besides, I never asked for any help from anyone, I was just relating some of the issues I was encountering. As a community, we should be helping each other or at the very least, respecting each other and our choices, not the ridicule and disdain Ive seen people show to other peoples choices just because they don 9;t agree with theirs. Too often Ive seen people ridiculed because they choose to use and like JAWS instead of NVDA, , or, in my case because I choose to use a file manager other than Windows explorer. Not only is that not right, its unacceptable and shows a lack of tolerance and maturity.When the topic of Freedom Scientifics ridiculous license agreement turned up, people here start calling Freedom Scientific childish name, and wish misfortune on its employees by wanting the company to go out of business so they lose their jobs. When I complained about what I thought was childish behavior, they told me to shut up and ignore them if I didnt like it. Whats ironic is that while they were trying to suppress my right to speak my opinion they were speaking their own. Sorry, but it doesnt work that way unless you are a despotic ruler. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222711#p222711 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community
Re: Distancing myself from the blind community @ghost riderYou are generalizing the blind community by extrapolating from particular incidents.This may be justified, but please be more specific and provide examples.Its very easy to claim that the blind community is childish without providing any exact sources. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222724#p222724 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
