Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2020-01-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : rwbeardjr via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Is there any way people can beta test the accessible version? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490724/#p490724 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible I've been checking the blog and left comments, but even my comments haven't been approved, so I'm not sure. Either the blog has been abandoned in favour of some other communication method, or there are some unexpected hitches.I can say there have been no main line updates to the game for a while, so perhaps something is happening in the developer's personal circumstances we don't know about, though I won't start to get seriously worried for another few months. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490142/#p490142 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2020-01-01
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : arturminyazev via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible hellodoes anyone knows status of the accessibility work?last update was 3 months ago, but maybe ,there are someone on the discord server and knows something. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490021/#p490021 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible As I said previously in this topic, I've been waiting for an accessible single player space colony game for a long time. I absolutely love the idea of taking a load of lost colonists from a few planetary explorers to building and overseeing entire cities, nurturing their development, coping with an alien environment, and keeping things running smoothly.I appreciate the complexity that goes into making a game like this accessible, and am glad that one or two loud mouthed idiots haven't soured entire process. As Jayde said, though theoretically accessibility should be automatic with most if not all games, in practice at the moment it takes a lot of particularly specialised work on the part of developers, especially in games like this with complex interfaces, however I can say such work is very much appreciated and I look forward to experiencing the result when its ready. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/459890/#p459890 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible As I said previously in this topic, I've been waiting for an accessible single player space colony game for a long time. I absolutely love the idea of taking a load of lost colonists from a few planetary explorers to building and overseeing entire cities, nurturing their development, coping with an alien environment, and keeping things running smoothly.I appreciate the complexity that goes into making a game like this accessible, and am glad that one or two loud mouthed idiots haven't soured entire process. As Jayde said, though theoretically accessibility should be automatic with most if not all games, in practice at the moment it takes a lot of particularly specialised work on the part of developers, especially in games like this with complex interfaces, however I can say such work is very much appreciated and I look forward to experiencing the result. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/459890/#p459890 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-09-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible It wasn't this person saying that though, it was their management;. I do share the sentiment though. However, I also see how accessibility can hurt a company. It's more time, more money, and then when people act all entitled about it, the higher ups start questioning whether it's really worth it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/459889/#p459889 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible I'm not normally a huge fan of this sort of thing, but I liked what I saw here. Hey, at least it's not another FPS.I definitely can appreciate that there's a ton of work that's going to go into making this accessible, especially if it's a hex grid and not just a traditional one. I can't even imagine the math, so I don't envy your position.Basically, if it takes a bit of time, that's fine. Do it right, even if it takes longer, that's the main thing.I really don't love it when people make comments about how they're just gonna drop accessibility altogether if this is the response they get (not saying you're doing this, BTW, not at all). Because what it feels like is "not only do you have to wait, but you also have to play nice. I can take this away whenever I want, so be grateful", and that's not cool. It's true enough, but it's not cool. Insofar as it's reasonable, accessibility should be an automatic in game development, not a privilege. This is why I really appreciate what you're doing here. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/459886/#p459886 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-09-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible This sounds badass. I've wanted to play this since first hearing about it, but now I can't wait until the accessibility stuff gets released. This sounds like something right up my alley, and I love the humor. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/459870/#p459870 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Hi.This game is going to be great!Just like crafting kingdom, I'm sure it will bring us hours of fun. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/459830/#p459830 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-09-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : mikrima via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Hi everyone!The work on the accessibility for this game is coming along great! I've made a recording of the first 4 minutes of gameplay and posted it on my blog. If you're interested in a sneak preview, here's the link:https://icodelikeagirl.com/2019/09/05/g … k-preview/ URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/459815/#p459815 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-08-07
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Addolis via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible In my case? Nothing. I've tried to get them on multiple occations to hlep out with truly real cases of work-place and educational descrimination, but all they do is refer me to a local or federal agency. THe NFB only helps when the case generates enough poblisity, allowing them to steal the spotlight, and if you don't believe me, look at all there cases. They don't help the small local students, they help out those who go to large universities. THey Don't go after smaller companies who descriminate against blind peple they go after places like walmart, and target, and amazon because they are well known. If it doesn't generate poblisity , it isn't worth there time. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/453831/#p453831 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-08-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : RTT entertainment via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Does anybody know if this game is an open ended affair? From what my friend played, he says that it seems to be very mission based. That’s not a bad thing, it just seems like a strange direction for a colony management game to take. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/453420/#p453420 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible The game is still being developed, I saw a recent update, though not one related to accessibility, still as Liam said these things take time and i'm confident that if Metalpop have said the game will be accessible, it will be. Personally, I've wanted a really good single player space colony management game for a while now so I'm really looking forward to this one. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/453397/#p453397 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-08-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : bookrage via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible I don't know why I'm jumping in here, but I have my own opinion on this mess.first, Especially if the company is actively working on accessibility, it serves us better to be constructive and say things to them on their forums or in private like "Hey, this thing doesn't work, you might be able to fix it by doing X." or "Could you rearrange things so that this is this way?" I do think that if a game could reasonably be considered accessible-possible and the developers are openly and aggressively anti-accessible, then 1-star reviews are valid. If Crafting Kingdom basically told us to go jump in a river, with their game being so easy to make accessible, then we have the right to throw down bad reviews. However, in the case of crafting kingdom, this sin't the case so they haven't earned what a small number of brats have done.As for what can come from being noisy.When the Amazon Kindle first came out, Amazon was openly against putting text-to-speech on the system to allow the blind to use the device to read. My family, as well as others all over the country contacted everyone they knew, both sighted and non-sighted about this rather jerkish policy and there was a huge flood of negative comments thrown in on Amazons comment thing for the Kindle announcement. The decision was reversed within an hour and Amazon said that the Kindle would have text-to-speech features. It has opened up a huge world of reading for me and countless others that just wasn't open before as a result.Do I think all video games should be accessible. My answer is No. Some games are simply too complex or just not a format that an accessible version would be reasonable. Something like Super Mario Galaxy could never be made into an accessible game. I think we need to be realistic. If the game is super-complex or we can't think of a reasonable way to help the developers make it work for us, we shouldn't throw down a bad review or raise a fuss. When a game is either reasonabally able to be made accessible and the developer refuses to do so, or it is accessible and then the developr loses any intent in making it accessible, such as in the case of Herozero, then it is reasonable to throw down bad reviews. That is how we make our voices heard. The bad reviews, as Crafting Kingdom's developer said, hurt their pocket books. If we hurt bad companies that won't listen to REASONABLE accessibility requests, they are likely to listen.However, Crafting kingdom and several other games don't deserve it. In fact, even though they haven't gotten quite there, Crafting kingdom I think deserves high reviews because they are making an effort. High reviews for serious attempts at accommodation are powerful too and will urge more companies to do this as such high reviews help their pocket books.I'm not a member of the NFB or AFB but they do a lot of good work along with being a little too militant for my tastes, though they aren't monolithic and I've met several very reasonable members before, they don't all agree on what things are best to do and not all of them participate in all of their projects.But that's all I have to say about that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/453395/#p453395 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible I imagine as soon as there is an update we will all know about it. These things take time and patience. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/453371/#p453371 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-08-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : RTT entertainment via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Hi everyone. Sorry to revive this topic, but does anybody know if this game is still being developed? I know the developer said that it would take a few weeks, but it has almost been a month. I’m not asking for the game to be released and I know it takes a lot of time, but may we please at least still get an update as to how things are coming along? Please don’t tell me to just be patient and wait for the games release? I am not asking for the game to be released. I’m only asking for an update as to what is going on. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/453366/#p453366 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-08-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : RTT entertainment via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Hi everyone. Sorry to revive this topic, but does anybody know if this game is still being developed? I know the developer said that it would take a few weeks, but it has almost been a month. I’m not asking for the game to be released and I know it takes a lot of time, but may we please at least still get an update as to how things are coming along? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/453366/#p453366 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible @77, the mainstream industry is large, but this is a game that isn't exactly well known. If a game is extremely well-known, then a one-star review isn't going to do much, if anything. But if a game isn't well-known, say less than 1 people know it (as an example), then a one-star review can be extremely damaging. If that one-star review is never purged, then it can affect the games popularity in the future. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/449532/#p449532 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible @77, the mainstream industry is large, but this is a game that isn't exactly well known. If a game is extremely well-known, then a one-star review isn't going to do much, if anything. But if a game isn't well-known, say less than 1 people know it (as an example), then a one-star review can be extremely damaging. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/449532/#p449532 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-17
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : nidza07 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible @76 Yeah, and it's not just Crafting kingdoms. She wrote a plugin for making accessible games in Unity which quite a few devs are already using, namely app a11y uses it in their game world app. @77 yeah, couldn't wait for a post like that. Mainstream community is way larger. For on100 1 star reviews, you get possible 500 5 star reviews. Also, nobody takes away features from them because well, all those developers are sighted people, and how can you program something you can't use? That's why reverse never happens. In fact, there are even more reasons, and I'll just say that this is one of a few accessible mainstream games, even more so on Android than iOS. So if you are in such a hurry to have concerns, then I don't know honestly what's up with people. If one day these guys make a completely inaccessible game, they have every right to do it because not every game can be made accessible. However, people don't realize that. Am I happy with the number of games we currently can play with sighted people? Hell no I'm not. However, is this really the type of company to blame? In fact, she raises a very valid point. I also want to say that when sighted users leave one star reviews, they have tried the app. These people did not give one star reviews based on the quality, they gave them based on the idea that it wont ever be accessible, while a simmple email to the company would work very well. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/449512/#p449512 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-17
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : mektastic via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible I'm coming in with a very unpopular opinion.First, if you spend any time in the gamer realm at all, you also know there is a huge entitlement issue. The fact that now a member of a company is upset because of something that I also think is a shitty move and now feels soured about accessibility makes me question their intentions. And you would likely say I'm being unfair.But so are posts like this, which are basically scolding the majority of us who don't do things of this nature. Do people not believe that sighted gamers are not entitled, leave 1 star reviews for unfair reasons, or make unfair demands? It happens.So the thing that frosts my cookies is that now someone feels that they want to take their toys and go home? While I feel the frustration and sympathize, I wish this hadn't been posted here because nothing makes me want to buy a game less than the idea of someone talking about just dropping accessibility based on the actions of others. When sighted gamers also show their asses, will the company consider taking away features of their game?I always feel frustrated when I see posts like this from developers because I go between feeling frustrated on behalf of the developer, irritated at the people who made them feel this way, and angry that once again we have to be subjected to another rant by people whose games we are buying when they would be better served keeping it a little more private and group texting their feelings and sparing us from being preached at, again. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/449503/#p449503 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-15
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : leibylucw via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible If Crafting Kingdoms is any indication of the usability of their apps, I don't have any concerns. It's just a matter of patience (which some folks apparently don't have). URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/449087/#p449087 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-15
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Addolis via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible I'm looking forward to it too honestly! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/449061/#p449061 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible @Michelle, really glad to hear that the access mode is happening, as I said, I've been wanting a space colonization management game for a considerable time now and will very much look forward to this when the niggling accessibility problems are ironed out. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448981/#p448981 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible I'm glad to hear that all the negativity hasn't put you off of making this game accessible, I'm looking forward to trying it once it's ready. I would say something to these self entitled blindies out there, but it's just not worth our time, they have sad little lives and nothing better to do then act like complete idiots, and I'm very happy to hear that you weren't put off by them Michelle, there are a lot of us that look forward to sighted games having accessibility added to them. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448781/#p448781 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-14
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Addolis via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible I'm sorry, while sighted people do do this, it is so clear to me that blind people have one of the worst entitlement problems i've ever seen. I my self saw it with Madden developement, over the years, and people just grilling EA because Madden Menus were not accessible right then and there. I want games to be accessible too, but acting like I have some sort of God-Given right to force a developer to make there games accessible especially if they are a small company isn't going to change a thing. I'd rather wait and see what happens. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448768/#p448768 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-13
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : RTT entertainment via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Good point iron Cross. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448612/#p448612 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-13
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible There are going to be those who do things like this because that's just how they are. But there are so much more of us who do appreciate the work people are putting into accessibility than hateful, entitled trolls. Also, I'm betting not everyone would have realized the effect this would have, now hopefully they do. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448606/#p448606 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-13
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : RTT entertainment via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Just for those interested, the tutorial person is a bit of a sassy one. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448604/#p448604 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-13
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : RTT entertainment via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Hi. I just have to ask, is this game open ended or mission based? My friend who is visually impaired was playing with me and showing me the game. I don’t have any problem with this game being mission based, it just seems like a strange direction for a game like this to take. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448580/#p448580 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-13
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : frastlin via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible @Michelle sorry, I should have talked to you first before posting it here. I felt it was critically important that the blind community see the psychological impact of the different actions they take in relation to accessibility on non blind development teams. I think this thread has taught many people that the proper way to get accessibility is to privately contact developers first, rather than give them negative reviews on the app store.I hope that when the accessibility mode is ready, all the interest in this topic will translate into interest in the app.(I would be interested to know what percentage of an Indy game's sales and downloads are from blind players)The hope is that future games won't have negative reviews like this for accessibility.I also hope your development lead knows you have a ton of hard-core fans in the VI community! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448579/#p448579 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-13
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : RTT entertainment via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Hi. Do you think we could please have some sort of an audio recording to be able to get an understanding of the game? I’m not necessarily asking to hear the accessibility, just to hear someone walking through some of the game and explaining it. While the App Store description is good, it would be nice to know a bit more about the games mechanics. Can we battle other colonies? Do other colonies even exist? How exactly does the colony ship work? Also, if you didn’t read my review, I think it wasn’t even published, do you think you could please add a save data management system if there is not already implemented? I love having the ability to manage my save and it would be nice to be able to delete a save if you don’t want it anymore. It can get quite bothersome uninstalling the app. I know it sounds pointless, but it’s another suggestion. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448568/#p448568 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : RTT entertainment via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Hi. It is so great to hear that everything is okay. I just wanted to ask, did my review even get published? I can’t seem to find it. My nickname on the App Store is the Tetris monster. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448554/#p448554 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : RTT entertainment via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Hi. It is so great to hear that everything is okay. I just wanted to ask, did my review even get published? I can’t seem to find it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448554/#p448554 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : mikrima via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Hi everyone, I'm Michelle, the author of the blog post.I wanted to post here to throw in my two cents. Ian Hamilton just linked me the AppleVis thread as well, so I'll be posting this over there, too.Because my post felt kind of negative, I didn't post it on Twitter or draw attention to it. It was a personal vent - I didn't think many people would care for it. There's no need to give the game a 5 star rating to counter the 1 star ones. The thought is much much appreciated, and thank you for that - but I'd feel much better if people just reviewed the game after they played it (once everyone can play it). Someone said it pretty perfectly further up in this threat. Manipulating ratings to counter manipulated ratings is not the solution.Also, I'm a little overwhelmed at the moment by the sheer amount of comments, emails and Twitter messages I have received. All of them positive, some offering insights or just trying to see things from all sides and so on. It's pretty awesome, and I made a point of showing around the 20+ positive comments on my blog post today. That definitely changed things, I can tell you that much.Regardless, even if not a single person had read my post - it wasn't my intention to make anyone worry that I'd be stopping my work on the game's accessibility. If there's any doubt in that regard, allow me to spell it out: This game will become accessible! I just don't know when.Aside from the big core gameplay mechanics, I'm fighting a million little things. Here is just one example: The text in some labels has words highlighted in a different color. The screen reader reads the color information out aloud, so currently you're hearing "Great job recruit, now hop onto your left bracket color equals hashtag f f c c 4 5 right bracket colony ship left bracket dash right bracket and fly to the next planet". Not terribly difficult to fix, but I have a hundred of little things like that to iron out. I'll get through it all, in time.Last time, with Crafting Kingdom, it was the feedback of dozens of beta testers from this forum and others that made all the difference. The first version of the game was accessible, yes, but far from great. I'm really hoping one something similar again with this game, once I got things far enough to throw it into an accessibility mode beta test. I had always planned to come here and start a thread looking for beta testers once I'm in that stage. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448536/#p448536 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Munawar via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible This is a lesson for all of us. It's ironic how we will all slam each other quickly and yet when a topic like this comes up, everyone's the good guy now. As I scanned this topic I immediately picked out four names that were relentless when I was actively developing TDV. I'm glad a sighted mainstream dev has finally got your attention. Maybe it'll make you think next time before you go after a dev.Also, the game isn't doing poorly in terms of ratings--it was at a 4.8 when I checked. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448537/#p448537 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : mikrima via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Hi everyone, I'm Michelle, the author of the blog post.I wanted to post here to throw in my two cents. Ian Hamilton just linked me the AppleVis thread as well, so I'll be posting this over there, too.Because my post felt kind of negative, I didn't post it on Twitter or draw attention to it. It was a personal vent - I didn't think many people would care for it. There's no need to give the game a 5 star rating to counter the 1 star ones. The thought is much much appreciated, and thank you for that - but I'd feel much better if people just reviewed the game after they played it (once everyone can play it). Someone said it pretty perfectly further up in this threat. Manipulating ratings to counter manipulated ratings is not the solution.Also, I'm a little overwhelmed at the moment by the sheer amount of comments, emails and Twitter messages I have received. All of them positive, some offering insights or just trying to see things from all sides and so on. It's pretty awesome, and I made a point of showing around the 20+ positive comments on my blog post today. That definitely changed things, I can tell you that much.Regardless, even if not a single person had read my post - it wasn't my intention to make anyone worry that I'd be stopping my work on the game's accessibility. If there's any doubt in that regard, allow me to spell it out: This game will become accessible! I just don't know when.Aside from the big core gameplay mechanics, I'm fighting a million little things. Here is just one example: The text in some labels has words highlighted in a different color. The screen reader reads the color information out aloud, so currently your hearing "Great job recruit, now hop onto your left bracket color equals hashtag f f c c 4 5 right bracket colony ship left bracket dash right bracket and fly to the next planet". Not terribly difficult to fix, but I have a hundred of little things like that to iron out. I'll get through it all, in time.Last time, with Crafting Kingdom, it was the feedback of dozens of beta testers from this forum and others that made all the difference. The first version of the game was accessible, yes, but far from great. I'm really hoping one something similar again with this game, once I got things far enough to throw it into an accessibility mode beta test. I had always planned to come here and start a thread looking for beta testers once I'm in that stage. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448536/#p448536 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : defender via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible true, I didn't mean it like it was exclusive to them, but I understand how it would sound like that how I said it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448528/#p448528 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : defender via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Yeah it was partially their fault that people got upset in the first place if they never told anyone it was going to be made accessible, but like others have said, they should have just asked if they weren't sure. Hell Trees Brothers (makers of Star Traders) did the same thing and people were disappointed but pretty understanding. I would literally only give 1 star if the game was actively terrible in every way and I paid money for a ly.I see Key7zum defending the practice of giving 1 star to get a dev's attention on the applevis thread and it makes me mad that she doesn't seem to understand the gravity of (over all rating) in Apple's ranking system when a game has so few ratings yet that the impact of one review is totally outsized compared to what it should be.Frankly I see her getting ripped to shreds for it and I can't say I'm sorry either. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448513/#p448513 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible @59, practically every rating system works like Apples does -- even Amazons one works liek that. If a book has only one review and its a bad one, there's a pretty high chance it won't appear in any of the top lists, or in any major list, and so there is a pretty high chance that it won't get popular. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448520/#p448520 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : RTT entertainment via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Screw this, I’m not just sitting back and watching things go badly. Somebody ask Michelle to come to this forum. She needs to see what everyone is saying. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448515/#p448515 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : defender via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Yeah it was partially their fault that people got upset in the first place if they never told anyone it was going to be made accessible, but like others have said, they should have just asked if they weren't sure. Hell Trees Brothers (makers of Star Traders) did the same thing and people were disappointed but pretty understanding. I would literally only give 1 star if the game was actively terrible in every way and I paid money for a ly.I see Key7zum defending the practice of giving 1 star to get a dev's attention on the applevis thread and it makes me mad that she doesn't seem to understand the impact of (over all rating) in Apple's ranking system when a game has so few ratings yet that the impact of one review is totally outsized compared to what it should be.Frankly I see her getting ripped to shreds for it and I can't say I'm sorry either. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448513/#p448513 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : defender via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Yeah it was partially their fault that people got upset in the first place if they never told anyone it was going to be made accessible, but like others have said, they should have just asked if they weren't sure. I would literally only give 1 star if the game was actively terrible in every way and I paid money for a ly.I see Key7zum defending the practice of giving 1 star to get a dev's attention on the applevis thread and it makes me mad that she doesn't seem to understand the impact of (over all rating) in Apple's ranking system when a game has so few ratings yet that the impact of one review is totally outsized compared to what it should be.Frankly I see her getting ripped to shreds for it and I can't say I'm sorry either. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448513/#p448513 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : defender via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Yeah it was partially their fault if they never told anyone it was going to be made accessible, but like others have said, they should have just asked if they weren't sure, or at least given 3 stars or something. I would literally only give 1 star if the game was actively terrible in every way and I paid money for a ly.I see Key7zum defending the practice of giving 1 star to get a dev's attention on the applevis thread and it makes me mad that she doesn't seem to understand the impact of (over all rating) in Apple's ranking system when a game has so few ratings yet that the impact of one review is totally outsized compared to what it should be.Frankly I see her getting ripped to shreds for it and I can't say I'm sorry either. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448513/#p448513 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible @14 "The solution to the problem is for some devs to provide a sort of accessibility framework to be easier for devs to produce." Already exists. Made by the person who made the post.@57 "I’m quite scared that this game will not be made accessible" You should be way more scared than that.So to be absolutely clear here, this is not an issue about an individual game. Michelle, the developer who posted that blog post, is also responsible for the unity accessibility plugin. When she talks about the company being anti accessibility the implications go way way beyond a single game. There was a tweet the other day about her being on an internal hackathon team buildijg a prototype of antive en-e fine Unity screenreader support. It is no exaggeration at all to say that things are at a turning point at the moment and I'd you lose Michelle then the blind accessibility effort will be set back by years. It's precisely this kind of "fuck developers" attitude that made me stop sending developers to this forum. To be blunt accessibility is not going to happen by itself. Outside of CVAA it's still a very tough sell, it's not like other industries where there is a legal imperative so you're reliant entirely on goodwill and winning hearts and minds. If you want it to happen you need to make it happen, and making it happen means encouraging success, not hating on your biggest allies for them not quite managing to drive change at the speed that you like.Standing by is not an option, if you want mainstream accessibility to become a reality you need to stop the people in the community who are sabotaging it, and throw every ounce of support behind your allies who are fighting to change things for the better. Like Michelle. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448512/#p448512 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : RTT entertainment via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible OK. Time for a little confession. I’m actually quite scared. I’m quite scared that this game will not be made accessible just because of what a few people have said. I know the impact that words can have on someone, but I really feel that it would be unfair for all of us to lose out on a phenomenal experience simply because they are demotivated by the opinions of 10 people. Why didn’t they come on this forum? Why didn’t they post anything here? Why just go to the App Store? I really would love to play this game. I quite like crafting kingdom, but it isn’t my cup of tea. Can anyone get into contact with the developer and ask them to post here? We need a status update. Not necessarily on the progress of the accessibility, but rather on the progress of how things are going at the studio. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448508/#p448508 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : CAE_Jones via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible I'll just leave this here:The Copenhagen Interpretation of EthicsThe Copenhagen Interpretation of quantum mechanics says that you can have a particle spinning clockwise and counterclockwise at the same time – until you look at it, at which point it definitely becomes one or the other. The theory claims that observing reality fundamentally changes it.The Copenhagen Interpretation of Ethics says that when you observe or interact with a problem in any way, you can be blamed for it. At the very least, you are to blame for not doing more. Even if you don’t make the problem worse, even if you make it slightly better, the ethical burden of the problem falls on you as soon as you observe it. In particular, if you interact with a problem and benefit from it, you are a complete monster. I don’t subscribe to this school of thought, but it seems pretty popular.In 2010, New York randomly chose homeless applicants to participate in its Homebase program, and tracked those who were not allowed into the program as a control group. The program was helping as many people as it could, the only change was explicitly labeling a number of people it wasn’t helping as a “control group”. The response?“They should immediately stop this experiment,” said the Manhattan borough president, Scott M. Stringer. “The city shouldn’t be making guinea pigs out of its most vulnerable.”On March 11th, 2012, the vast majority of people did nothing to help homeless people. They were busy doing other things, many of them good and important things, but by and large not improving the well-being of homeless humans in any way. In particular, almost no one was doing anything for the homeless of Austin, Texas. BBH Labs was an exception – they outfitted 13 homeless volunteers with WiFi hotspots and asked them to offer WiFi to SXSW attendees in exchange for donations. In return, they would be paid $20 a day plus whatever attendees gave in donations. Each of these 13 volunteers chose this over all the other things they could have done that day, and benefited from it – not a vast improvement, but significantly more than the 0 improvement that they were getting from most people.The response?IT SOUNDS LIKE something out of a darkly satirical science-fiction dystopia. But it’s absolutely real — and a completely problematic treatment of a problem that otherwise probably wouldn’t be mentioned in any of the panels at South by Southwest Interactive.There wouldn’t be any scathing editorials if BBH Labs had just chosen to do nothing – but they did something helpful-but-not-maximally-helpful, and thus are open to judgment.There are times when it’s almost impossible to get a taxi – when there’s inclement weather, when a large event is getting out, or when it’s just a very busy day. Uber attempts to solve this problem by introducing surge pricing – charging more when demand outstrips supply. More money means more drivers willing to make the trip, means more rides available. Now instead of having no taxis at all, people can choose between an expensive taxi or no taxi at all – a marginal improvement. Needless to say, Uber has been repeatedly lambasted for doing something instead of leaving the even-worse status quo the way it was.Gender inequality is a persistent, if hard to quantify, problem. Last year I blogged about how amoral agents could save money and drive the wage gap down to 0 by offering slightly less-sexist wages – while including some caveats about how it was probably unrealistic and we wouldn’t see anything like that in reality. So of course less than a week after I wrote that Evan Thornley says :“There’s a great arbitrage there, we would give [women] more responsibility and a greater share of the rewards than they were likely to get anywhere else and that was still often relatively cheap to someone less good of a different gender.”While Mr Thornley said he wasn’t advocating that the gender pay gap should be perpetuated, he said it provided “an opportunity for forward thinking people”.A number of online commentators, as well as Australian start-up blogs, have since said Mr Thornley’s comments were sexist.Mr. Thornley improved on the status quo – but in the process he interacted the problem and was thus caught up in it. This is a strategy which, if widely embraced, would practically eliminate many forms of wage discrimination overnight simply by harnessing something we have way too much of already: greed. So of course it was denounced.Last year the city of Detroit began to crack down on unpaid water bills, and thousands of poor people suddenly faced the prospect of having their water shut off. The vast majority of people did nothing to help them whatsoever. PETA did offer conditional help: If a family went vegan for 30 days, PETA would pay off their water bill, and throw in a basket of vegan food to boot. This was strictly more helpful than what 99.9% of humanity was doin
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : CAE_Jones via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible I'll just leave this here:The Copenhagen Interpretation of EthicsThe Copenhagen Interpretation of quantum mechanics says that you can have a particle spinning clockwise and counterclockwise at the same time – until you look at it, at which point it definitely becomes one or the other. The theory claims that observing reality fundamentally changes it.The Copenhagen Interpretation of Ethics says that when you observe or interact with a problem in any way, you can be blamed for it. At the very least, you are to blame for not doing more. Even if you don’t make the problem worse, even if you make it slightly better, the ethical burden of the problem falls on you as soon as you observe it. In particular, if you interact with a problem and benefit from it, you are a complete monster. I don’t subscribe to this school of thought, but it seems pretty popular.In 2010, New York randomly chose homeless applicants to participate in its Homebase program, and tracked those who were not allowed into the program as a control group. The program was helping as many people as it could, the only change was explicitly labeling a number of people it wasn’t helping as a “control group”. The response?“They should immediately stop this experiment,” said the Manhattan borough president, Scott M. Stringer. “The city shouldn’t be making guinea pigs out of its most vulnerable.”On March 11th, 2012, the vast majority of people did nothing to help homeless people. They were busy doing other things, many of them good and important things, but by and large not improving the well-being of homeless humans in any way. In particular, almost no one was doing anything for the homeless of Austin, Texas. BBH Labs was an exception – they outfitted 13 homeless volunteers with WiFi hotspots and asked them to offer WiFi to SXSW attendees in exchange for donations. In return, they would be paid $20 a day plus whatever attendees gave in donations. Each of these 13 volunteers chose this over all the other things they could have done that day, and benefited from it – not a vast improvement, but significantly more than the 0 improvement that they were getting from most people.The response?IT SOUNDS LIKE something out of a darkly satirical science-fiction dystopia. But it’s absolutely real — and a completely problematic treatment of a problem that otherwise probably wouldn’t be mentioned in any of the panels at South by Southwest Interactive.There wouldn’t be any scathing editorials if BBH Labs had just chosen to do nothing – but they did something helpful-but-not-maximally-helpful, and thus are open to judgment.There are times when it’s almost impossible to get a taxi – when there’s inclement weather, when a large event is getting out, or when it’s just a very busy day. Uber attempts to solve this problem by introducing surge pricing – charging more when demand outstrips supply. More money means more drivers willing to make the trip, means more rides available. Now instead of having no taxis at all, people can choose between an expensive taxi or no taxi at all – a marginal improvement. Needless to say, Uber has been repeatedly lambasted for doing something instead of leaving the even-worse status quo the way it was.Gender inequality is a persistent, if hard to quantify, problem. Last year I blogged about how amoral agents could save money and drive the wage gap down to 0 by offering slightly less-sexist wages – while including some caveats about how it was probably unrealistic and we wouldn’t see anything like that in reality. So of course less than a week after I wrote that Evan Thornley says :“There’s a great arbitrage there, we would give [women] more responsibility and a greater share of the rewards than they were likely to get anywhere else and that was still often relatively cheap to someone less good of a different gender.”While Mr Thornley said he wasn’t advocating that the gender pay gap should be perpetuated, he said it provided “an opportunity for forward thinking people”.A number of online commentators, as well as Australian start-up blogs, have since said Mr Thornley’s comments were sexist.Mr. Thornley improved on the status quo – but in the process he interacted the problem and was thus caught up in it. This is a strategy which, if widely embraced, would practically eliminate many forms of wage discrimination overnight simply by harnessing something we have way too much of already: greed. So of course it was denounced.Last year the city of Detroit began to crack down on unpaid water bills, and thousands of poor people suddenly faced the prospect of having their water shut off. The vast majority of people did nothing to help them whatsoever. PETA did offer conditional help: If a family went vegan for 30 days, PETA would pay off their water bill, and throw in a basket of vegan food to boot. This was strictly more helpful than what 99.9% of humanity was doin
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : CAE_Jones via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible I'll just leave this here, phone permitting.The Copenhagen Interpretation of EthicsThe Copenhagen Interpretation of quantum mechanics says that you can have a particle spinning clockwise and counterclockwise at the same time – until you look at it, at which point it definitely becomes one or the other. The theory claims that observing reality fundamentally changes it.The Copenhagen Interpretation of Ethics says that when you observe or interact with a problem in any way, you can be blamed for it. At the very least, you are to blame for not doing more. Even if you don’t make the problem worse, even if you make it slightly better, the ethical burden of the problem falls on you as soon as you observe it. In particular, if you interact with a problem and benefit from it, you are a complete monster. I don’t subscribe to this school of thought, but it seems pretty popular.In 2010, New York randomly chose homeless applicants to participate in its Homebase program, and tracked those who were not allowed into the program as a control group. The program was helping as many people as it could, the only change was explicitly labeling a number of people it wasn’t helping as a “control group”. The response?“They should immediately stop this experiment,” said the Manhattan borough president, Scott M. Stringer. “The city shouldn’t be making guinea pigs out of its most vulnerable.”On March 11th, 2012, the vast majority of people did nothing to help homeless people. They were busy doing other things, many of them good and important things, but by and large not improving the well-being of homeless humans in any way. In particular, almost no one was doing anything for the homeless of Austin, Texas. BBH Labs was an exception – they outfitted 13 homeless volunteers with WiFi hotspots and asked them to offer WiFi to SXSW attendees in exchange for donations. In return, they would be paid $20 a day plus whatever attendees gave in donations. Each of these 13 volunteers chose this over all the other things they could have done that day, and benefited from it – not a vast improvement, but significantly more than the 0 improvement that they were getting from most people.The response?IT SOUNDS LIKE something out of a darkly satirical science-fiction dystopia. But it’s absolutely real — and a completely problematic treatment of a problem that otherwise probably wouldn’t be mentioned in any of the panels at South by Southwest Interactive.There wouldn’t be any scathing editorials if BBH Labs had just chosen to do nothing – but they did something helpful-but-not-maximally-helpful, and thus are open to judgment.There are times when it’s almost impossible to get a taxi – when there’s inclement weather, when a large event is getting out, or when it’s just a very busy day. Uber attempts to solve this problem by introducing surge pricing – charging more when demand outstrips supply. More money means more drivers willing to make the trip, means more rides available. Now instead of having no taxis at all, people can choose between an expensive taxi or no taxi at all – a marginal improvement. Needless to say, Uber has been repeatedly lambasted for doing something instead of leaving the even-worse status quo the way it was.Gender inequality is a persistent, if hard to quantify, problem. Last year I blogged about how amoral agents could save money and drive the wage gap down to 0 by offering slightly less-sexist wages – while including some caveats about how it was probably unrealistic and we wouldn’t see anything like that in reality. So of course less than a week after I wrote that Evan Thornley says :“There’s a great arbitrage there, we would give [women] more responsibility and a greater share of the rewards than they were likely to get anywhere else and that was still often relatively cheap to someone less good of a different gender.”While Mr Thornley said he wasn’t advocating that the gender pay gap should be perpetuated, he said it provided “an opportunity for forward thinking people”.A number of online commentators, as well as Australian start-up blogs, have since said Mr Thornley’s comments were sexist.Mr. Thornley improved on the status quo – but in the process he interacted the problem and was thus caught up in it. This is a strategy which, if widely embraced, would practically eliminate many forms of wage discrimination overnight simply by harnessing something we have way too much of already: greed. So of course it was denounced.Last year the city of Detroit began to crack down on unpaid water bills, and thousands of poor people suddenly faced the prospect of having their water shut off. The vast majority of people did nothing to help them whatsoever. PETA did offer conditional help: If a family went vegan for 30 days, PETA would pay off their water bill, and throw in a basket of vegan food to boot. This was strictly more helpful than what 99.9% of hum
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : defender via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible @RTTFrom any tab in the app store, go to the top and find the my account button, inside there will be purchases, which includes free apps.In there, you should be able to tap an app and rate it or see your previous rating of it near the bottom of the page that comes up. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448480/#p448480 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : RTT entertainment via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible I have to go off topic for a second. Does this game allow you to battle other colonies? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448466/#p448466 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : leibylucw via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible @45, that's just it, though, [ONE] five-star rating, not 5 or 10, or anything more than 1. There were a handful of folks who said they would give or did give them a five-star rating, so this offsets an accurate rating, it's now just in favor of the developers. Again, I understand the frustrations on both sides, not the negative rating. But we're arguing about ratings, and I've used the word rating way more than I meant to...I think the issue is less about the rating and more about not giving the devs something more concrete, like bidirectional communication that actually builds a relationship between blind users and the development team. Why is the focus on this one stupid rating? The game hasn't tanked because of it, and the game itself is so early in its infancy that as more people are attracted to it, it will gain more (hopefully good) reviews. Again, this concept of battling it out on the ratings section on the app's entry on the app store is ineffective and childish (more to the negative reviewer). URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448457/#p448457 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : deathtime via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible This is very bad, I think. The problem also lies in the fact that the words and actions of several blind people can spoil the attitude of others towards everyone or most blind people. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448448/#p448448 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Thank you for posting this, it is so needed, so glad it got focused on! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448438/#p448438 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : RTT entertainment via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Hi guys. I posted a review on the App Store, but I can’t seem to find it. Can someone please tell me if they can find it? As for my opinion, no comment. No comment whatsoever. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448433/#p448433 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Turkce_Rap via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Some may not like for what i'Ve said but all the so called "the others" including blinds spoilled by the political correctness bullshit and identical policies so mutch. Now blinds started to think that they have a right to piss off what ever disliked by them and it's their right to bring down the companies and institutions are not fitting their dreammed utopias.if you don'T like just don't buy, simple as it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448430/#p448430 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : rwbeardjr via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible I agree with everything said. We need to show more support for these developers. This is why a lot of developers don’t want to make stuff accessible. And I think people need to understand that developers are not obligated to do that. These developers do it by choice. And because of some people in the community, we could be losing a very good accessible game developer URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448429/#p448429 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible I agree with 45 and 46 here, metalpop have already proven their commitment to accessibility and to getting everything running smoothly, just consider the many updates to crafting kingdom with access fixes. Very few games intended for a sighted audience have perfect accessibility out of the box anyway and often need a tweak or two, that's when you contact the developer and politely raise appropriate issues. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448426/#p448426 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : nidza07 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible I have a proof that they care fully about their users. If you want it, go play crafting kingdom. It's a great game, and it never had to be accessible in the first place. Every relatively small dev will care about reviews, because it will help popularize their game. Appa11y who created dice world and game world does the same, and almost every app asks you to rate it positively if you like it. Nothing too surprising there. When I hear that something is not accessible, the first thing I do is write an email to the company in question, not write a review. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448418/#p448418 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : keyIsFull via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible well if you don't want to arte them, don't rate them; the reason for the 5 star ratings wasn't to say that the game was good or is good now or will be good later, it's just to offset the junky 1 star. That 1 star reviewer shouldn't have given a 1 star review anyway, but you can't just take his review off the store, so this is the next best thing. If the game comes out, you try it, and the accessibility turns out to be bad or nonexistent, then by all means give it a ad rating. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448416/#p448416 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : leibylucw via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible What if the situation becomes reversed? What if we give them five stars and it turns out accessibility falls short of expectations? I'm not saying this will happen or we should expect this to be the case, but the common theme among all these answers is that we should praise this dev team through five-star ratings because of the idiocy they had to deal with from the person described in post 1 so they don't lose their ignited spark of ambition to make their app accessible.I don't want to give something I haven't even tried using any rating let alone a five-star one just to let the developers know I appreciate their efforts towards making their app accessible to me. I can do that through an email or a phone call. If it turns out that these channels of communication prove to be ineffective, then I'd strongly question if this company cares more about their ratings than they do about their customers' satisfaction. While I agree the negative review is outrageously inappropriate and unacceptable, I don't think playing a game of "battle the bad rating" is the right approach, nor do I think this dev team should only be looking for what one review says versus a whole community, especially when we can take the time to have a personal connection with them, not a unidirectional rating/review. I understand how this poor dev feels, and she shouldn't feel invalidated for her emotions; however, I just felt like the focus of her complaint rested heavily on the rating, and that rubs me the wrong way. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448414/#p448414 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible There didn't seem to be any negative reviews related to accessibility in the UK Ap store, though I put a positive one and a five star rating through anyhow just in case it helps, since I've wanted a galactic colonisation management game for a very long time and it'll be a crying shame if accessibility doesn't happen due to trolling. Nice way to break in my new bluetooth keyboard .While I agree that fixing reviews isn't a great way around, at the same time, unfortunately with the blind community being as small as it is positive attitude towards developers is crucial, I've seen it time and time again when I've worked with devs, some idiot claiming to speak for blind people mouths off and the dev is soured on the hole business. Usually a little negotiation makes the matter salvageable. I'd usually do this via direct contact but as ap store reviews seem to be the problem here that is where i've submitted the comments I would usually have submitted via email or similar. Given that we cannot police every blind person out there, we can at least try to present a better front and actually behave like those mythical creatures, reasonable human beings. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448408/#p448408 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : daigonite via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible I don't think manipulating reviews to fix manipulated reviews is the right way to approach this... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448399/#p448399 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : frastlin via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible If everyone who commented on this thread could give them a 5-star rating (either in Android or IOS), their app would be a solid 5 star! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448398/#p448398 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Perry Simm via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Hi!Profanity will not help, neither will sadness and resignation.Want more love in this world? Generate it!Let's all give them a five star review and tell them how grateful we are they are putting accessibility into their game.And let's not waste any more time complaining about how bad some people are.Cheers Perry URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448382/#p448382 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible these people that have done this to this dev should be ashamed of themselves, it's disgusting behavior. there may only be a few of the blind community that does this kind of thing, but these few assholes are just making things so much worse for the rest of us who enjoy playing games, and apreciate mainstream devs putting effort into mmaking their games playable for everyone URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448361/#p448361 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible why the fuck why always the bad side of the blind community always shows up like thisreally, i'M so sad URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448354/#p448354 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : frastlin via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible They have 27 reviews in my App store, so if all of us gave them a 5 star, then that would be a significant chunk of the ratings and probably get them back up to a 5/5 rating.Currently they have 4.7/5. I'm not sure you actually need to download the app to rate, but I'm not an expert.We have the extremely rare chance to be a big influence on this app, so let's do it!https://apps.apple.com/app/id1240422237 URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448353/#p448353 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : frastlin via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible They have 27 reviews in my App store, so if all of us gave them a 5 star, then that would be a significant chunk of the ratings and probably get them back up to a 5/5 rating.Currently they have 4.7/5. I'm not sure you actually need to download the app to rate, but I'm not an expert.We have the extremely rare chance to be a big influence on this app, so let's do it! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448353/#p448353 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : zakc93 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible So the game is called "galactic colonies" by metalpop (searching galactic colonies brought it up as the first result for me). I can't see any ratings actually, I'm not sure if ratings are country-specific but I've always suspected that they are. So people in countries where the bad ratings are being given should maybe give good ratings to try and balance them out.For people asking for contact details, she has a twitter account mentioned on her blog, so maybe use that, or leave comments on the blog itself. In case people missed the link in the first post, here it is:https://icodelikeagirl.com/2019/07/11/s … ccessible/ URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448347/#p448347 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : zakc93 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible This is so unfortunate, it's hard to believe that you actually get people who do this for a game for which they know accessibility is coming. Why would you leave 1 star reviews if you know they are working on it, especially if it's a developer who has previously made a good accessible game?Oh and also agree that the comments that say this is indicative of whatever about blind people or what this community has become are unfair given that most of us clearly aren't like this. That doesn't mean we shouldn't do anything about it though, like many other aspects of life it's very possible for a small minority to ruin things for the rest if we don't actively counter it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448342/#p448342 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Left a comment on her blog page to even things out a little.We all know that the blind gaming community as whole isn't like this. Its just always the negative feedback thats loudest. So we should learn from this occasion and improve our positive/productive feedback game.We can't do anything against dicks like that reviewer but we can outweigh him 1000:1. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448343/#p448343 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : zakc93 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible This is so unfortunate, it's hard to believe that you actually get people who do this for a game for which they know accessibility is coming. Why would you leave 1 star reviews if you know they are working on it, especially if it's a developer who has previously made a good accessible game? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448342/#p448342 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : tayo . bethel via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible ... Wow. And I thought my night wasn't going to be very interesting ...Those people who harass developers to make their games accessible right now or else should 1. Do some research on accessibility themselves, not just of software and games but also the attitudes regarding accessibility and 2. Only leave reviews that make positive suggestions about improvements. The reason that inaccessible games don't get negative accessibility reviews is simple: since the games are inaccessible there's no need to leave a review of any kind since the game can't be played. While I've left reviews on a few games, I can't imagine pulling down developers who have proven that they can and will make accessible games, and take positive feedback from the community. That, after all is how Crafting Kingdom came to be. How many developers has this community lost to just such an attitude of "Gimme dis now! Now! NOW!"? Seriously, this has to stop, or the community might find itself in the truly uncomfortable position of having no games to play at all. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448338/#p448338 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : frastlin via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible The best way is to leave a 5 star rating on the app store and say you can't wait for the accessibility mode to come out. That will lesson the effect of the only 1 star rating the app has.Note that Michelle has created The Unity Accessibility Plugin that will help majorly in making the app accessible, and this game is using that plugin. But as she said, something like driving a ship won't work if just the UI is accessible. If you are pressing buttons to turn the ship, the user experience will be terrible. Instead, I want a swiping navigation experience, and I'm sure this is what they are doing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448335/#p448335 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Wow. It's such a shame to see how some people have reacted, which is described in post 1. Big shame on those people... It's important to remember that not all people are like this.I would also like any contact information to the developers if possible. I hope they'll come here on the forum to discuss the accessibility in their game... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448327/#p448327 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-11
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : The Dwarfer via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible See, the most thought provoking part of that post for me was where the author pointed out that companies who were not endeavoring to make their games/software accessible were not receiving this sort of treatment, but that they were because while they were trying, they weren't doing it fast enough.I can see why they'd feel discouraged then. It would be like the lonely kid apparently having no friends choosing to be an ass to the one person who decided to come up and talk to them, while not treating those who shunned them in the same manner. The one person who decided to give that person a friend gets to be punished for doing the right thing, but apparently not in the "right way" URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448324/#p448324 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Does anyone have contact info for the devs in question. I personally have wanted an accessible galactic colonization game for years, and the idea of losing one because of trolls makes me want to go hunt some trol, though failing that, I'd love to send some positive comments to the devs in question. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448319/#p448319 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Moderation:Put this in the correct room. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448314/#p448314 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-11
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : daigonite via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible K, made the thread here:https://forum.audiogames.net/topic/2975 … fications/ URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448303/#p448303 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-11
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : daigonite via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible That's a great idea, but where should we start forming the ideas on how to structure this process? Would this thread work fine?I'm not familiar as much with the more bureaucratic side of things just being a developer myself, but I can explain the reasoning in maxseer, and also, if people have things to add, I can also add it there. Then we can merge maxseer into both a framework and a specification.I like it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448298/#p448298 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-11
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Players abusing developers feels very NFB related, not the developers themselves. The NFB is a joke nowadays with their extreme liberal attitudes, and just the way in which they handle communications with companies, kicking and screaming like toddlers until they get their way. Their image is corrupted because of this. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448288/#p448288 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Why does everyone hate the NFB? What have they actually done? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448290/#p448290 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible @23, yeah, I know that its a specification as a framework, and your post was quite informative. I suggested we write up a formal specification though, on -- say -- GitHub, so that the specification is open and sited and blind individuals can add to it with an agreed-upon approval process. So he spec would be a formal document describing what games must have a minimum, and the framework would be an implementation of that specification. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448296/#p448296 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
2019-07-11
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : daigonite via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible * you deal with different types of games by providing toolkits that have components that can be used in different kinds of games. Some components won't really be necessary for sone games. Having a tool kit with tons of tools for a wide variety of situations allows for the devs to have a wider set of options, without having to build everything from scratch. But when someone comes up with a great accessibility solution, we should be trying to make that an open source framework so that in most cases it can just be applied easily, and in others it can be adjusted for specific circumstances. It's important to understand that this is a progressive, community development. But the alternative is losing accessibility solutions to time and developers leaving the community. * You give devs the choice, but put pressure on them to comply through competition. Colors, the game I'm working on, intends to do this by having a highly accessible experience. By making an example out of ourselves, we cause the public to ask, why isn't AAA using this? We encourage adoption through simplicity and reducing work (automation). They don't have to use maxseer specifically, they can just make their own framework based on the specifications.* regarding authority, I think that having a main branch of the maxseer project is acceptable, but I want to promote the development of forks for specific design cases. Development should be decentralized and open, and based through spreading information in interested communities. Perhaps a maxseer forum or something. This could also be the origin of the official specifications. How this would work in practice, I'm not sure. But there should be minimized authority imho. Specifications could be a good idea in addition, maxseer is essentially a specification that has a framework built around it, but a problem with in house solutions is that they still require a large amount of development that is unlikely to be encouraged if the market shifts away from accessibility for some reason. So having an actual usable framework as well is vital. Also, it encourages indie implementation of accessibility. Pardon me if I'm a bit rough around the edges but I think maxseer is essentially trying to be a specification, I just didn't think about it that way. I'm not really sure what's wrong with having the development of both because indies will at least always have a free to use option.I knew what your NFB joke was. LolListen, I'm willing to develop this technology, but I need help from both communities to actually make it successful. If anyone actually gives a shit about accessibility its worth a shot, right?je97 wrote:Why does everyone hate the NFB? What have they actually done?lol nothing that's why everyone gets miffed. mostly loud barking noises. Although I think they have had a few accomplishments as an organization. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448293/#p448293 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible @25, no, I think we should create a new thread for that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448299/#p448299 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible K, made the thread here:https://forum.audiogames.net/topic/2975 … fications/ URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448303/#p448303 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible @25, no, I think we should create a new thread for that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448299/#p448299 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible That's a great idea, but where should we start forming the ideas on how to structure this process? Would this thread work fine?I'm not familiar as much with the more bureaucratic side of things just being a developer myself, but I can explain the reasoning in maxseer, and also, if people have things to add, I can also add it there. Then we can merge maxseer into both a framework and a specification.I like it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448298/#p448298 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible @23, yeah, I know that its a specification as a framework, and your post was quite informative. I suggested we write up a formal specification though, on -- say -- GitHub, so that the specification is open and sited and blind individuals can add to it with an agreed-upon approval process. So he spec would be a formal document describing what games must have a minimum, and the framework would be an implementation of that specification. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448296/#p448296 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible * you deal with different types of games by providing toolkits that have components that can be used in different kinds of games. Some components won't really be necessary for sone games. Having a tool kit with tons of tools for a wide variety of situations allows for the devs to have a wider set of options, without having to build everything from scratch. But when someone comes up with a great accessibility solution, we should be trying to make that an open source framework so that in most cases it can just be applied easily, and in others it can be adjusted for specific circumstances. It's important to understand that this is a progressive, community development. But the alternative is losing accessibility solutions to time and developers leaving the community. * You give devs the choice, but put pressure on them to comply through competition. Colors, the game I'm working on, intends to do this by having a highly accessible experience. By making an example out of ourselves, we cause the public to ask, why isn't AAA using this? We encourage adoption through simplicity and reducing work (automation). They don't have to use maxseer specifically, they can just make their own framework based on the specifications.* regarding authority, I think that having a main branch of the maxseer project is acceptable, but I want to promote the development of forks for specific design cases. Development should be decentralized and open, and based through spreading information in interested communities. Perhaps a maxseer forum or something. This could also be the origin of the official specifications. How this would work in practice, I'm not sure. But there should be minimized authority imho. Specifications could be a good idea in addition, maxseer is essentially a specification that has a framework built around it, but a problem with in house solutions is that they still require a large amount of development that is unlikely to be encouraged if the market shifts away from accessibility for some reason. So having an actual usable framework as well is vital. Also, it encourages indie implementation of accessibility. Pardon me if I'm a bit rough around the edges but I think maxseer is essentially trying to be a specification, I just didn't think about it that way. I'm not really sure what's wrong with having the development of both because indies will at least always have a free to use option.I knew what your NFB joke was. LolListen, I'm willing to develop this technology, but I need help from both communities to actually make it successful. If anyone actually gives a shit about accessibility its worth a shot, right?je97 wrote:Why does everyone hate the NFB? What have they actually done?lol nothing that's why everyone gets miffed. mostly loud barking noises. Although I think they have had a few accomplishments as an organization. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448293/#p448293 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible * you deal with different types of games by providing toolkits that have components that can be used in different kinds of games. Some components won't really be necessary for sone games. Having a tool kit with tons of tools for a wide variety of situations allows for the devs to have a wider set of options, without having to build everything from scratch. But when someone comes up with a great accessibility solution, we should be trying to make that an open source framework so that in most cases it can just be applied easily, and in others it can be adjusted for specific circumstances. It's important to understand that this is a progressive, community development. But the alternative is losing accessibility solutions to time and developers leaving the community. * You give devs the choice, but put pressure on them to comply through competition. Colors, the game I'm working on, intends to do this by having a highly accessible experience. By making an example out of ourselves, we cause the public to ask, why isn't AAA using this? We encourage adoption through simplicity and reducing work (automation). They don't have to use maxseer specifically, they can just make their own framework based on the specifications.* regarding authority, I think that having a main branch of the maxseer project is acceptable, but I want to promote the development of forks for specific design cases. Development should be decentralized and open, and based through spreading information in interested communities. Perhaps a maxseer forum or something. This could also be the origin of the official specifications. How this would work in practice, I'm not sure. But there should be minimized authority imho. Specifications could be a good idea in addition, maxseer is essentially a specification that has a framework built around it, but a problem with in house solutions is that they still require a large amount of development that is unlikely to be encouraged if the market shifts away from accessibility for some reason. So having an actual usable framework as well is vital. Also, it encourages indie implementation of accessibility. Pardon me if I'm a bit rough around the edges but I think maxseer is essentially trying to be a specification, I just didn't think about it that way. I'm not really sure what's wrong with having the development of both because indies will at least always have a free to use option.I knew what your NFB joke was. Lolje97 wrote:Why does everyone hate the NFB? What have they actually done?lol nothing that's why everyone gets miffed. mostly loud barking noises. Although I think they have had a few accomplishments as an organization. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448293/#p448293 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible * you deal with different types of games by providing toolkits that have components that can be used in different kinds of games. Some components won't really be necessary for sone games. Having a tool kit with tons of tools for a wide variety of situations allows for the devs to have a wider set of options, without having to build everything from scratch. But when someone comes up with a great accessibility solution, we should be trying to make that an open source framework so that in most cases it can just be applied easily, and in others it can be adjusted for specific circumstances. It's important to understand that this is a progressive, community development. But the alternative is losing accessibility solutions to time and developers leaving the community. * You give devs the choice, but put pressure on them to comply through competition. Colors, the game I'm working on, intends to do this by having a highly accessible experience. By making an example out of ourselves, we cause the public to ask, why isn't AAA using this? We encourage adoption through simplicity and reducing work (automation). They don't have to use maxseer specifically, they can just make their own framework based on the specifications.* regarding authority, I think that having a main branch of the maxseer project is acceptable, but I want to promote the development of forks for specific design cases. Development should be decentralized and open, and based through spreading information in interested communities. Perhaps a maxseer forum or something. This could also be the origin of the official specifications. How this would work in practice, I'm not sure. But there should be minimized authority imho. Specifications could be a good idea in addition, maxseer is essentially a specification that has a framework built around it, but a problem with in house solutions is that they still require a large amount of development that is unlikely to be encouraged if the market shifts away from accessibility for some reason. So having an actual usable framework as well is vital. Also, it encourages indie implementation of accessibility. Pardon me if I'm a bit rough around the edges but I think maxseer is essentially trying to be a specification, I just didn't think about it that way. I'm not really sure what's wrong with having the development of both because indies will at least always have a free to use option.I knew what your NFB joke was. Lol URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448293/#p448293 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible * you deal with different types of games by providing toolkits that have components that can be used in different kinds of games. Some components won't really be necessary for sone games. Having a tool kit with tons of tools for a wide variety of situations allows for the devs to have a wider set of options, without having to build everything from scratch. But when someone comes up with a great accessibility solution, we should be trying to make that an open source framework so that in most cases it can just be applied easily, and in others it can be adjusted for specific circumstances. It's important to understand that this is a progressive, community development. But the alternative is losing accessibility solutions to time and developers leaving the community. * You give devs the choice, but put pressure on them to comply through competition. Colors, the game I'm working on, intends to do this by having a highly accessible experience. By making an example out of ourselves, we cause the public to ask, why isn't AAA using this? We encourage adoption through simplicity and reducing work (automation). They don't have to use maxseer specifically, they can just make their own framework based on the specifications.* regarding authority, I think that having a main branch of the maxseer project is acceptable, but I want to promote the development of forks for specific design cases. Development should be decentralized and open, and based through spreading information in interested communities. Perhaps a maxseer forum or something. This could also be the origin of the official specifications. How this would work in practice, I'm not sure. But there should be minimized authority imho. Specifications could be a good idea in addition, maxseer is essentially a specification that has a framework built around it, but a problem with in house solutions is that they still require a large amount of development that is unlikely to be encouraged if the market shifts away from accessibility for some reason. So having an actual usable framework as well is vital. Also, it encourages indie implementation of accessibility. Pardon me if I'm a bit rough around the edges but I think maxseer is essentially trying to be a specification, I just didn't think about it that way. I knew what your NFB joke was. Lol URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448293/#p448293 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible * you deal with different types of games by providing toolkits that have components that can be used in different kinds of games. Some components won't really be necessary for sone games. Having a tool kit with tons of tools for a wide variety of situations allows for the devs to have a wider set of options, without having to build everything from scratch. But when someone comes up with a great accessibility solution, we should be trying to make that an open source framework so that in most cases it can just be applied easily, and in others it can be adjusted for specific circumstances. It's important to understand that this is a progressive, community development. But the alternative is losing accessibility solutions to time and developers leaving the community. * You give devs the choice, but put pressure on them to comply through competition. Colors, the game I'm working on, intends to do this by having a highly accessible experience. By making an example out of ourselves, we cause the public to ask, why isn't AAA using this? We encourage adoption through simplicity and reducing work (automation)* regarding authority, I think that having a main branch of the maxseer project is acceptable, but I want to promote the development of forks for specific design cases. Development should be decentralized and open, and based through spreading information in interested communities. Perhaps a maxseer forum or something. Specifications could be a good idea in addition, maxseer is essentially a specification that has a framework built around it, but a problem with in house solutions is that they still require a large amount of development that is unlikely to be encouraged if the market shifts away from accessibility for some reason. So having an actual usable framework as well is vital. Also, it encourages indie implementation of accessibility. Pardon me if I'm a bit rough around the edges but I think maxseer is essentially trying to be a specification, I just didn't think about it that way. I knew what your NFB joke was. Lol URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448293/#p448293 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible * you deal with different types of games by providing toolkits that have components that can be used in different kinds of games. Some components won't really be necessary for sone games. Having a tool kit with tons of tools for a wide variety of situations allows for the devs to have a wider set of options, without having to build everything from scratch. But when someone comes up with a great accessibility solution, we should be trying to make that an open source framework so that in most cases it can just be applied easily, and in others it can be adjusted for specific circumstances. It's important to understand that this is a progressive, community development. But the alternative is losing accessibility solutions to time and developers leaving the community. * You give devs the choice, but put pressure on them to comply through competition. Colors, the game I'm working on, intends to do this by having a highly accessible experience. By making an example out of ourselves, we cause the public to ask, why isn't AAA using this? We encourage adoption through simplicity and reducing work (automation)* regarding authority, I think that having a main branch of the maxseer project is acceptable, but I want to promote the development of forks for specific design cases. Development should be decentralized and open, and based through spreading information in interested communities. Perhaps a maxseer forum or something. Specifications could be a good idea in addition, but a problem with in house solutions is that they still require a large amount of development that is unlikely to be encouraged if the market shifts away from accessibility for some reason. So having an actual usable framework as well is vital. Also, it encourages indie implementation of accessibility. I knew what your NFB joke was. Lol URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448293/#p448293 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Why does everyone hate the NFB? What have they actually done? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448290/#p448290 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible Players abusing developers feels very NFB related, not the developers themselves. The NFB is a joke nowadays with their extreme liberal attitudes, and just the way in which they handle communications with companies, kicking and screaming like toddlers until they get their way. Their image is corrupted because of this. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448288/#p448288 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible @19, I see your point. My major concern is this: you can develop the framework all you like, add as many features as you like, but:* how will you handle other types of games, i.e.: side-scrollers, top-down shooters, etc? If this is to be a standard, then it'll need to cover as many of these as possible.* how will you get video game development teams to use it? Who, or what, will govern what the framework does and doesn't do?My above question isn't "how will you get all teams," but either a majority, or a minority, of teams. Getting all of them to use it is a pipe dream.I think a different approach to doing this would be to:1) write a specification that defines a fully playable game. Such a definition might be "a game that is playable by individuals with and without disabilities."2) Ensure that the specification governs what any game must have to be complaint with the specification. Obviously leave it open so that studios can add extensions to it.3) Write a framework that includes only the requirements the specification governs.This approach seems like a much better idea; either studios can go with their own in-house implementation or can go with an already-developed framework that is spec-compliant. This is what some programming languages do (i.e. with international bodies like ISO and IEEE). URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448284/#p448284 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible
Re: Stop punishing developers trying to make their games accessible @19, I see your point. My major concern is this: you can develop the framework all you like, add as many features as you like, but:* how will you handle other types of games, i.e.: side-scrollers, top-down shooters, etc? If this is to be a standard, then it'll need to cover as many of these as possible.* how will you get video game development teams to use it? Who, or what, will govern what the framework does and doesn't do?My above question isn't "how will you get all teams," but either a majority, or a minority, of teams. Getting all of them to use it is a pipe dream. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/448284/#p448284 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
