Re: Win32 App Accessibility
Re: Win32 App Accessibility Voice over is one huge problem lol.About Electron, I hope that Chromium will be accessible on linux soon, as the guys from both Orca and Chromium projects are making a great job. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/451537/#p451537 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Win32 App Accessibility
Re: Win32 App Accessibility @5, to be fair, the QT accessibility problem is an issue with voice over and not necessarily QT's fault. At least it seems that way. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/451527/#p451527 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Win32 App Accessibility
Re: Win32 App Accessibility Not much else that needs to be said. Anything using standard winforms or even the more modern WPF frameworks is very accessible, because it works well with the Windows accessibility API's like UIA that are used by screen readers to do their job. What caused a decline in app accessibility in recent years, at least in my opinion is the prevalance of cross-platform GUI toolkits, which do a better or worse job of exposing accessibility related information to operating systems. WX is by far the best, because it usually just maps most controls to the native controls of a given operating system, so WX apps are really accessible (IE Audacity). However, QT gained even more traction, and while it has an accessibility API the support isn't anywhere nearly as good. For the longest time, the accessibility support wasn't even bundled with the toolkit so you had to ask developers to implement it or copy in DLL files and hope you get it to work. Now, the situation is decent enough on Windows, even better on Linux, but on the Mac side a lot of important QT widgets like trees, tables, lists and combo boxes still don't have any accessibility support so using many apps, like just about every multi-person voice chat solution is frustrating.There's a few more toolkits out there, like GTK which is basically the native on Linux where accessibility is usually perfect, but nonexistant on other platforms, and juice which just straight up draws graphics to the screen so doesn't work well at all. And then there's Electron, which even though makes rather bloated applications can result in some really accessible experiences because they're just web pages, so following web accessibility guidelines results in very accessible, cross platform applications. At least on Windows and Mac because Chromium on Linux currently isn't accessible. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/451454/#p451454 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Win32 App Accessibility
Re: Win32 App Accessibility I would not wish the win32 API on my worst enemy, just sayin'. I agree with 2 here. Making GUI toolkits sounds like a nice idea, but then you need to make your own widgets. QT does this extremely nicely, integrating UIA into theirframework with QT5 (and thereby making pretty much all QT5 apps, bar a few, at least primitively accessible). URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/451444/#p451444 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Win32 App Accessibility
Re: Win32 App Accessibility unless Electron is not accessible on Linux it has no go for me.About Win32, as Nyanchan said, if one ceates an application in pure Win32, you have a very good chance it will be accessible. It was like that since I remember. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/451439/#p451439 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Win32 App Accessibility
Re: Win32 App Accessibility I can say that applications using win32 native widgets are 80% accessible. This is mainly because there are API functions that retrieve almost every information about windows on ram, which are organized as a large tree structure from the root desktop window.However, even if they are using native APIs, recent applications tend to perform a lot of window subclassing to modify the default behaviors. Such modifications often break screen reader navigation.Another problem is that most of the crossplatform GUI libraries try to implement their own graphical widgets in order to avoid using native APIs for each OS. This does make sense in terms of maintenance cost, but unfortunately, that most likely means that we can't use them.I'm honestly having high expectation for web based application frameworks like Electron. Making it crossplatform is what the "web side" does, and web is already accessible in most platforms. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/451406/#p451406 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Win32 App Accessibility
Win32 App Accessibility Hey all,I'm just doing a quick survey to ask about the accessibility of win32 apps over time.I think a major reason why accessibility dipped in the 2000s was because of a migration to the web, causing people to basically loosen up standards. Plus a lot of people using technology like Flash which was innovative at the time for ease of implementation and just the sheer amount of shit you could do with it, but also not remotely consistent with accessibility.However I have heard a few reports through the years that win32 apps have had variable quality over the years. I'm trying to pin down exactly the reason why, but while writing out some thoughts I had on accessibility I realized I didn't actually know much about the accessibility experience of win32 apps themselves over time.So yeah, just talk about your experience using win32 apps, and how the transition away from win32 apps affected you. In regards to applications used for completing tasks, like forms or things like word processors, how did the accessibility landscape evolve for you?For clarification, win32 apps are basically those default windows forms apps. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/451401/#p451401 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Win32 App Accessibility
Win32 App Accessibility Hey all,I'm just doing a quick survey to ask about the accessibility of win32 apps over time.I think a major reason why accessibility dipped in the 2000s was because of a migration to the web, causing people to basically loosen up standards. Plus a lot of people using technology like Flash which was innovative at the time for ease of implementation and just the sheer amount of shit you could do with it, but also not remotely consistent with accessibility.However I have heard a few reports through the years that win32 apps have had variable quality over the years. I'm trying to pin down exactly the reason why, but while writing out some thoughts I had on accessibility I realized I didn't actually know much about the accessibility experience of win32 apps themselves over time.So yeah, just talk about your experience using win32 apps, and how the transition away from win32 apps affected you. In regards to applications used for completing tasks, like forms or things like word processors, how did the accessibility landscape evolve for you? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/451401/#p451401 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
