Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? @Dark;Sorry, Ill correct that right now.Bash away everybody, I will say no more. As a JAWS user and a satisfied Freedom Scientific customer, I had an interest in what other people thought of them and their products, but not if those opinions are presented with name calling and other unproductive behavior. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222755#p222755 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? @Moderation! @Gene you seem to have missunderstood the above moderation comment, if you feel people are bashing ie, cryticizing unfairly, feel free to say so, just do so without accusing those who offer other forms of cryticism of childish name calling or bitching and mowning.Really, only in two posts in this entire thread have joke names been used, indeed there are far more posts complaining at those joke names than actually made them in the first place so might I suggest everyone drop the discussion about the joke names, and if people want to have a serious conversation about the issue raised in the blog, ie, the Jaws licensing business, just to do so without all the baggage. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222758#p222758 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? Well, while I am personally appalled about Freedom Scientifics end user license agreement I also realize that most of us have a freedom of choice. Today there are a number of alternatives including: NVDA, Window-Eyes, System Access, Supernova,etc. Rather than complain about it I chose to leave Jaws the minute I found something both cheaper and meets my personal needs. I personally feel if someone has a grievance with Jaws or any other product to stop complaining about it and simply find an alternative that suits his/her needs. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222741#p222741 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? Moderation! @Gellman, now it is you getting confrontational! please do not tell other people what they themselves are saying or what they mean or start attributing characteristics such as Getting superior to others. If you want to discuss the issue, or any issues surrounding Freedom Scientific, please do so, but keep the discusssion about the issues not about the iniquities of those who hold opposing points of view. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222807#p222807 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? Hello,I forgot about Freedom Scientific suing gw micro. I think that is very much out of line, given the market that screen reader developers are taking part in. Thats like Apple or Samsung suing Sony for adding a touch screen to their playstation vita handheld console. No, not gonna happen, and Apple and Samsung realize that so didnt sue them. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222774#p222774 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? Heres a question for you.If this is the software license agreement for JAWS 16 and JAWS 16 was released over six months ago, what can it mean that it took six months for people to decide to make a stick about it? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222783#p222783 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? @bradThe same could be said of any corporation being the first to market a groundbreaking invention.Does it mean that we should be thankful in perpetuity for what the corporation has done for us and give it a free pass when it tries to squelch competition?If FS$ had been successful in patenting screen reader functions, NVDA would either not exist or have been crippled from start. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222806#p222806 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? @GeneWarnerCriticism is not less valid or important just because it concerns events you think are no longer of great novelty.Yes, the issues with FS$ license are not new, and so what?You do not get to define which actions of anyone are too old to be of general public concern.And you are continuing to conflate criticizing a corporation with wishing ill on its employees.If there are particular statements wherein anyone has wished ill on individual employees of the said corporation, by all means provide the exact quotes, but dont argue that others should refrain from recalling what FS$ has done in the past, and please dont cast suspicion on peoples motivation without evidence.- You are claiming from apparent superiority that others act childishly, but you are yourself imputing the honesty of the blogger by strongly implying that his primary motive for covering the FS$ license is getting more clicks.I note once again that you have not refuted my point that if FS$ had been successful in patenting placemarkers i.e assigning keyboard shortcuts to searching text on a webpage, free screen reader development would have grounded to a halt.So in a world where FS$ was able to patent screen reader functions, you would have no free opensource alternative for the simple reason that developers would have been sued into oblivion.And I am not willing to give FS$ a free pass even for its past litigiousness just because they failed.And by they I do not mean all individual employees down to the office secretary but only those who are responsible for setting the policy. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222798#p222798 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? Hello.Im an NVDA user and would not go back to jaws. But I will say this, before NVDA, JAWS was my screen reader and I learned how to use a computer using JAWS so, i dont hate JAWS, its people or anything like that. I dont like that you have to pay for it, but before i knew about NVDA, JAWS was awesome. It allowed me to go on the internet, read books, listen to audiobooks, watch movies, listen to radio and much much more. So before we say we hate JAWS, which I dont think anyone does hear, think back on what it aloud you to do. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222803#p222803 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? Moderation! @Coltonhill01, the position of this forum on personal attacks is absolutely clear, whatever someone else says, you dont have the right to insult them on your own behalf. Sinse this is not the first time you have been warned about this kind of behaviour you are now banned from the forum for two months. If you did not want a ban, well you should have either reported the offending post or at least not responded with a personal attack. In addition, this topic is now being closed. I didnt want things to go this far and was hoping the situation could be resolved peacefully but that obviously will not happen. In general I can say I am very disappointed that people cannot have a disagreement without getting into mud slinging arguements. Let us have no more of it! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222822#p222822 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? I have to laugh, you have a valid argument against Freedom Scientific and you completely discredit it and yourself by resorting to childish name calling. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222601#p222601 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? I wasnt having a go at anyone earlier... just for the record.post 11:I remember when I got my first mac back in 2008 I pretty much said the same thing to everyone I knew... Just get a mac you will save money.At the time I just got laughed at, now they all have iPhones, macs or run NVDA under windows. So people are realizing... slowly but surely URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222692#p222692 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? Jean, you yourself are acting like a child, by not allowing us to state what is clearly factual. Freedom scientifics intentions are clearly to enforce money out of people to be able to use a screen reader for there computer. But, heres what they dont realize. Microsoft narrator is becoming more accessible by every windows version. I have no doubt that narrator may leave even NVDA in the dust. But not this year, of course. Jean, what you dont seem to understand is, were not wishing anyone them il, just the company. And do you know why? Simple. Because, theyre stating plainly in the ULA that what theyre trying to do is get the most profit as possible, and youre falling for it. There entire company is a scam in order to get more than $3 a year at peoples expense. Now heres a message towards freedom scientific. I could buy a $600 laptop computer and pay another $1000 for a copy of jaws 16. But another way I could do it is, I co uld easily buy a mac Minny for $600, and it already comes with a completely functional screen reader, voice over. By th eway guys, I have no idea where Im going with this. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222669#p222669 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? no one said anything about wishing any of them ill will, we just dont like the way theyre choosing to do business. does the name really offend you that you have to call us children, i mean come on... Just ignore the topic if you dont like whats going on in it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222652#p222652 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? why cant people criticize them with out resorting to really stupid name calling? Its hard to take any criticism seriously when its filled with childish terms like freedom science fiction, greedom scientific and flaws. Name calling like that make the 7 year-olds currently having a fight outside my house sound more mature. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222661#p222661 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? why cant people criticize them with out resorting to really stupid name calling. Its hard to take any criticism seriously when its filled with childish terms like freedom science fiction, greedom scientific and flaws. Name calling like that make the 7 year-olds currently having a fight outside my house sound more mature. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222661#p222661 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? With all the name calling, wishing ill will on the people that work at Freedom scientific, and other rather childish behavior over something that will have little if any affect on you, I wonder why you complain about the way people treat you. If you are going to act like children, you should be treated like children. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222644#p222644 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
2015-07-04
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : severestormsteve1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? I agree that the name calling aspect is rather childish, but I consider, (and that has only increased since I discovered NVDA, voice over, System Access and narrator), Freedom Scientific to be unfair with the way they price jaws. Im aware that the company in question has produced other products, both hardware and software, so I dont really see the point in putting such a high price on Jaws, especially considering the fact that it can be a real pain to install. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222675#p222675 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? Ive been monitoring this topic in case a moderation intervention is needed. I will remind people that the blog with the article referencing the issues with the jfw ula was not written by Coltonhill01, but is a blog from a different site that Coltonhill is directing people to. Therefore, the issues of the jfw ula, and the language that certain people use about Jfw or Freedom Scientific are two very different matters from two different sources and should not be thought of as related, particularly sinse the blog article laying out the authors concerns is clearly not intended to be insulting. So, might I suggest people separate out the issues here so that it doesnt turn into a anyone who cryticises freedom Scientific is behaviing like a child debate, sinse that way doth lie flame wars. Please remember to keep discussions civil and stay out of personal attacks. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222672#p222672 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? @11 agreed, @12 dont worry, Ive been practicing restraint, trust me, if I let loose what I really wanted to say in some of these topics, Id be gone in no time... URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222676#p222676 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? I wasnt having a go at anyone earlier... just for the record. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222692#p222692 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? Yeah guys, I agree with JeenWarner here, the name-calling is quite unnecessary. Do you not notice that someone, or an organization, or a company, improves when given constructive criticism. Some of the criticisms I see are destructive, not constructive. Maybe things would be better if some of you could work on that.Now, to raise my point regarding FS:Maybe we could try and ask the head of FS, have you tried competitors products and compared them to JAWS? If the answer is no, then that would be one small step in making FS a better competitor than they are right now. Thank you, and I am sorry if I offended anyone. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222707#p222707 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? coltonhill01 wrote:and again gene.Stop bashing all of us and making us feel like crap just because you want us to be adults, when most of us arent.Really, when I joined this forum I was told that you had to be 18 or older to join. I thought this was a community of adults, Im sorry if I was wrong. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222730#p222730 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? There is one humorous element to this non-sense.Everybody knows that nobody actually reads those software license agreements software vendors like to put in their installers. So, other than to malign and wish for misfortune to befall all the people working at Freedom Scientific for the actions of a few,and of course to attract more readers to view the ads on his page and thus earn him a few more pennies, what other motivation could this blogger have to actually read one? Besides, its been proven in court that those shrink wrapped license agreements are unenforceable, though that hasnt stopped the software vendors from using them. So this ridiculous software license agreement that a couple of idiots at Freedom Scientific created is a whole lot of nothing.Even though that first line seems like Freedom Scientific is trying to trap you in an agreement you havent read or agreed to, they arent. If they were why would they give you the option to decline the agreement. Even your blogger noted that. I believe that first line is just a poor choice of words.I also agree that they wont allow other software vendors to use trial versions for software testing is stupid, that seems counter productive. More programs being compatible with JAWS just makes JAWS that much a better product. However; the truth is that companies with a real interest in attracting and supporting disabled companies wont balk at paying for JAWS to test their software with, after all, look at how much they spend on software development tools, theyd just consider JAWS to be another development tool.This whole thing feels like just another opportunity to unfairly malign a software vendor just because they are competitors of your favorite screen reader. Unfairly? Yes, if you really intended that your criticisms of Freedom Scientific to do any good, youd be taking them directly to Freedom Scientific instead of ho lding your private little bashing session here.The bottom line for me is, I agree with a lot that is said here about Freedom Scientifics behavior, if I didnt, I wouldnt be learning NVDA, Id be still using JAWS. I just disagree with how you all are going about discussing these issues. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222727#p222727 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? @GeneWarnerThe patent was invalidated on the ground that the innovasion was prior art.Prior art is a well known patent defense, and I for one dont believe that FS$ couldnt have discovered that assigning a keyboard shortcut to a text search function was so generic that someone else would have invented it.The outcome was not even close, so there is two possibilities -- FS$ filed the patent hoping they could get away with it or they were ignorant and didnt care to investigate prior to filing it.None of these possibilities are flattering.And no, using software patents in this sleazy way is not a strategy used by many software vendors.My claim therefore stands, if the patent on placemarkers had been upheld the free screenreader development would ground to a halt.Please elaborate if this is a conjecture with which you disagree.You wrote:Everybody knows that nobody actually reads those software license agreements software vendors like to put in their installers. So, other than to malignand wish for misfortune to befall all the people working at Freedom Scientific for the actions of a few,and of course to attract more readers to view theads on his page and thus earn him a few more pennies, what other motivation could this blogger have to actually read one? Besides, its been proven in court that those shrink wrapped license agreements are unenforceable, though that hasnt stopped the software vendors fromusing them. So this ridiculous software license agreement that a couple of idiots at Freedom Scientific created is a whole lot of nothing.So you are now conceding that the criticism of FS$ is in fact valid, but still its wrong to malign the Beleaguered corporation.And the party whose motivation is to be suspected is not the corporation but the blogger pointing out the mistake.I dont agree, a corporation should be presumed responsible for its public communication unless proven otherwise.Whether or not all employees of FS$ took part in the decision is besides the point, the corporation as an entity whom must be presumed responsible for its own actions. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222735#p222735 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? ironcross32 wrote:no one said anything about wishing any of them ill will, we just dont like the way theyre choosing to do business. does the name really offend you that you have to call us children, i mean come on... Just ignore the topic if you dont like whats going on in it.Maybe you yourself havent done it but several people here as well as the blogger in the first post have wished that they go out of business. What about all the people that have jobs there, any thoughts for them? Freedom Scientific also hires blind and visually impaired people when no one else will, what about them? I wonder if the people here and that blogger would be willing to help them while they try to find a new job, theyll need deep pockets, its common knowledge those blind and visually impaired people could and probably will take a lot of time to find a new job, assuming they actually do find one.You tell me to ignore these threads if I dont like them, by the same token, why dont you take your own advice and ignore Freedom Scientific if you dont like them or what they are doing?Like I said in the topic about the way the blind and visually impaired community behaves, intolerant hypocrites. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222703#p222703 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? There is one humorous element to this non-sense.Everybody knows that nobody actually reads those software license agreements software vendors like to put in their installers. So, other than to malign and wish for misfortune to befall all the people working at Freedom Scientific for the actions of a few,and of course to attract more readers to view the ads on his page and thus earn him a few more pennies, what other motivation could this blogger have to actually read one? Besides, its been proven in court that those shrink wrapped license agreements are unenforceable, though that hasnt stopped the software vendors from using them. So this ridiculous software license agreement that a couple of idiots at Freedom Scientific created is a whole lot of nothing.Even though that first line seems like Freedom Scientific is trying to trap you in an agreement you havent read or agreed to, they arent. If they were why would they give you the option to decline the agreement. Even your blogger noted that. I believe that first line is just a poor choice of words.I also agree that they wont allow other software vendors to use trial versions for software testing is stupid, that seems counter productive. More programs being compatible with JAWS just makes JAWS that much a better product. However; the truth is that companies with a real interest in attracting and supporting disabled companies wont balk at paying for JAWS to test their software with, after all, look at how much they spend on software development tools, theyd just consider JAWS to be another development tool.This whole thing feels like just another opportunity to unfairly malign a software vendor just because they are competitors of your favorite screen reader. Unfairly? Yes, if you really intended that your criticisms of Freedom Scientific to do any good, youd be taking them directly to Freedom Scientific instead of ho lding your private little bashing session here.The bottom line for me is, I agree with a lot that is said here about Freedom Scientifics behavior, if I didnt, I wouldnt be learning NVDA, Id be still using JAWS. I just disagree with how you all are going about discussing these issues.@gellman;At the time Freedom Scientific sued GWSoft, they thought they had a valid patent that was infringed on. Any company in that position, is going to sue the violators of their patent. It wasnt until after they filed their law suit that the patent was struck down. So there is nothing here you can fault Freedom Scientific for, they behaved the way any other company would were they in the same situation. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222727#p222727 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? and again gene.Stop bashing all of us and making us feel like crap just because you want us to be adults, when most of us arent. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222729#p222729 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? Um, Gene might I ask, whered you find out you had to be 18 to join this forum, and who told you if it wasnt from the forum directly? As far as I know there isnt an age restriction on this forum, although that still doesnt mean we shouldnt at least try to act like, if not adults, at least civil people. I mean, ok the bashing is fun and all. Its satisfying and such. Making up names fo the company, creating lets-bash-this-and-that videos and stuff like that can get a lot of laughs out of a lot of people depending on the audience. But does it do anything to help the situation here? Nope, it doesnt do a thing. IN fact, when it comes time that we send our criticisms directly to fs, this bashing might make them laugh at us even more and theres a chance they wouldnt take our criticism seriously even if it was constructive. I guess if yall wanna bash, ya can do it privately or in like a group called lets bash Jaw s or somethin like that if you really want to. Not on a public forum where fs could very well see it. Well that about sums up my position right there. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222737#p222737 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? ironcross32 wrote:no one said anything about wishing any of them ill will, we just dont like the way theyre choosing to do business. does the name really offend you that you have to call us children, i mean come on... Just ignore the topic if you dont like whats going on in it.Maybe you yourself havent done it but several people here as well as the blogger in the first post have wished that they go out of business. What about all the people that have jobs there, any thoughts for them? Freedom Scientific also hires blind and visually impaired people when no one else will, what about them? I wonder if the people here and that blogger would be willing to help them while they try to find a new job, theyll need deep pockets, its common knowledge those blind and visually impaired people could and probably will take a lot of time to find a new job, assuming they actually do find one.You tell me to ignore these threads if I dont like them, by the same token, why dont you take your own advice and ignore Freedom Scientific if you dont like them or what they are doing?Like I said in the topic about the way the blind and visually impaired community behaves, intolerant hypocrites.garrett wrote:Jean, you yourself are acting like a child, by not allowing us to state what is clearly factual.Thats where you are wrong, go back and read my message again, and try to comprehend it this time. I am not asking you to stop criticizing Freedom Scientific, Im just asking that you present your criticisms without resorting to name calling and other childish behavior. It accomplishes nothing except to make your criticisms seriously. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222703#p222703 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? ironcross32 wrote:no one said anything about wishing any of them ill will, we just dont like the way theyre choosing to do business. does the name really offend you that you have to call us children, i mean come on... Just ignore the topic if you dont like whats going on in it.Maybe you yourself havent done it but several people here as well as the blogger in the first post have wished that they go out of business. What about all the people that have jobs there, any thoughts for them? Freedom Scientific also hires blind and visually impaired people when no one else will, what about them? I wonder if the people here and that blogger would be willing to help them while they try to find a new job, theyll need deep pockets, its common knowledge those blind and visually impaired people could and probably will take a lot of time to find a new job, assuming they actually do find one.You tell me to ignore these threads if I dont like them, by the same token, why dont you take your own advice and ignore Freedom Scientific if you dont like them or what they are doing?Like I said in the topic about the way the blind and visually impaired community behaves, intolerant hypocrites.garrett wrote:Jean, you yourself are acting like a child, by not allowing us to state what is clearly factual.Thats where you are wrong, go back and read my message again, and try to comprehend it this time. I am not asking you to stop criticizing Freedom Scientific, Im just asking that you present your criticisms without resorting to name calling and other childish behavior. It accomplishes nothing except to make your criticisms seriously.Anyway, Im going to take Darks and my own advice and stop Im going to take Darks advice and leave you to your name calling and other childish and insensitive behavior, and Im going to take my own advice and stop associating with people who cant or wont behave like the adults they are supposed to be. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222703#p222703 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? @superbAre you seriously arguing that a corporation that sued a competetor for infringing a software patent on placemarkers cares more about ethics than profit?I think that you all ought to consider how the screenreader landscape would be now if the FS$ patent on placemarkers had been enforceable against GWMicro and other vendors of screen readers whose products are now almost equally as good if not cheaper.The bottomline for me with regard to FS$ is that they by litigation tried to accomplish what they could not do by open and honest competition.Do you think that NVDA, VoiceOver and Orca could continue development if FS$ had been allowed to patent functions which are now common in all screen readers?How could a free screen reader alternative ever be developed, if the developer had been forced to pay FS$ for each download?Software patents are bad enough, and when these are (ab)used by an accessibility vendor to chill competition, and lock in customers we as blind users and customers suffer. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222719#p222719 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? At this Gene dude:Remember I am indeed still a young teenager, and I wasnt anywhere near the one who came up with the name.I do not wish ill will to a single person in that company, I do not wish death, lawsute, any of that.Not to mention that I myself do not agree with the flaws name. It is almost the same as NVDA.Only thing is, NVDA people havent made all the jaws scripts, and OCR is buggy if at all working on NVDA.However, as far as i can tell, if you know python, you can do more with NVDA-addons than you can do with jaws scripts. You have the full functionality of python, external modules, etc, plus every single function that NVDA has to offer.Now if Im wrong, sorry about that, I havent looked into jaws scripting.If you want to take it up with the company, good then. We should actually do that. Its time these people heard from their customers!Just, watch out for automated systems and scams when calli ng big companies like that.I think the first place we should start, is, ahem, the legal department?Anyways Im off. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222728#p222728 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? @superb;Exactly.Question: Has any of you participating in this silly and childish name calling campaign ever considered doing something constructive and taken your criticisms directly to Freedom Scientific where theyd have the best chance of doing any good? Or is it more important to you to bitch and piss and moan about them than to actually make an effort to bring about change for the better. Honestly, you do you expect Freedom Scientific to improve if you say nothing to them about your concerns?If youre not willing to do something constructive about the situation, the least you can do is to try and not make it worse by being mean and disrespectful. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222717#p222717 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? Moderation! @Gene, your general attacks on those who hold opinions opposed to yours are verging close to the personal here. As I said above, Coltonhills use of the joke name for Freedom Scientific is quite a different matter to the cryticism mentioned in the blog or elsewhere in this topic, and your continual conflating of the two issues and denigration of those who hold opposing views to yours is not helping the situation. This is particularly true when accusing others of bitching and moaning This is a discussion forum, ie, it exists precisely for! the airing of different opinions. Feel free to disagree with any opinions offered, but please do not insult those who in their turn disagree with you, or assume that everybody holds the same view or expresses them in the same way, sinse it results in continual aggravation.@Coltonhill01, while there is no basic problem with your using the phrase greedom science fiction from the pe rspective of the forum, please do not accuse others of crap or lean on your age as an excuse for childish behaviour towards other members. to everyone bare in mind the age range on this forum is extremely large, going from 13 and 14 year olds to people in their fourties or older. Screen reader preferences and cryticisms tend to be a sensative area, so the issue should be discussed sensatively. As it says in the rules, differences of opinion are welcome, but please maintain a respect for other memberss while discussing those different opinions.If this topic continues to generate this sort of friction it will be closed and official warnings will be administered. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222738#p222738 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? Lol and if they so much as try to sue anyone here it will be frivolous as it always is. Every point made in that article is very valid and, even more so the statement that you are hereby agreeing to the license even after so much as downloading! the executable. But oh wait, the license agreement aint on their site, and even if they want it to be there the moment you download it, then they should put it there before the download windows appears! Its not that hard, Jason SW did it with all his xl studios games, with a checkbox stating I have read and agree to the... bla bla bla, you get the idea. Now comes the time to start notifying all mainstream devs about nvda so they wont get frightened by jaws, and rightfully so. They dont need to be frightened anymore though, cuzz theirs nvda! And if ya dont like nvda, ya dont like window eyes, theres yet another solution just a download away, system access to go! www.satogo.com click the begin link, and your executable is right there! Just as long as you have internet exploder running before running satogo.exe, youre good! You can even exit internet explorer once system access to go is initialized and youll be totally fine! Its really great for a free version of a paid screen reader, which, I have to say, system access all be it a paid screen reader, is the second most reasonably priced screen reader next to nvda out there, which is more than can be said of the popular screen readers. I have a feeling the reason they charge for system access is that they kinda have to, because they have all these great synthesizer options, like ivona, realspeak, ya know. Pretty sure they gotta pay royalties or at least have proof that theyre selling a product that includes those synths. Dont have the 300 something dollars for it at the time? No worries, you can get it as part of your samnet mobile subscription! And then the samnet mobile network is great too. So anyway, system access rant complete. Lol. Anyway, either that or nvda are great solutions for devs and users alike. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222638#p222638 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? Well, I had to go download the user docs just to find it on there site. LOL. Come on now, I have to go download the help files before I get to see the agreement? You just got to love the following.IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS EULA, DO NOT USE, INSTALL OR DOWNLOAD THE SOFTWARE. Has anyone notiest that Jaws fifteen put that in all caps when I copied from the help file? LOL. The whole agreement follows so that no one has to agree to it to read it nor do they have to doudt what we are talking about, as if they would. Now lets feed JAWs to the sharks shall we? Also, CW isnt my real name. LOL.Freedom Scientific End-User License Agreement – JAWS®IMPORTANT! BE SURE TO CAREFULLY READ AND UNDERSTAND ALL OF THE RIGHTS, OBLIGATIONS AND RESTRICTIONS SET FORTH IN THIS FREEDOM SCIENTIFIC END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT (“AGREEMENT” OR “EULA”). YOU ARE NOT AUTHORIZED TO USE THE JAWS SOFTWARE PROGRAM, UPDATES AND OTHER MATERIALS ACCOMPANYING OR ASSOCIATED WITH THE PROGRAM, UNLESS AND UNTIL YOU ACCEPT THE TERMS OF THIS EULA.BY AGREEING TO THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT, USING, INSTALLING OR DOWNLOADING THE SOFTWARE, YOU SIGNIFY YOUR ACCEPTANCE OF AND INTENT TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS EULA. THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THE FREEDOM SCIENTIFIC SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT (LICENSE AGREEMENT) EXPLAIN THE LEGAL RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN FREEDOM SCIENTIFIC AND THE INDIVIDUAL AND ORGANIZATIONAL PURCHASERS (DEFINED AS ORGANIZATIONAL LICENSEES BELOW) OF FREEDOM SCIENTIFIC SOFTWARE. BY USING THE SOFTWARE, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU HAVE READ AND UNDERSTAND THIS AGREEMENT, AND AGREE TO BE BOUND BY ALL OF ITS TERMS AND CONDITIONS. IF YOU DO NOT ACCEPT THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS EULA, DO NOT USE, INSTALL OR DOWNLOAD THE SOFTWARE.This Agreement is entered into between Freedom Scientific, Inc. a Delaware Corporation, with an address at 11800 31st Court North, St. Petersburg, FL 33716 (Freedom Scientific or Licensor) and You (referred to as You or Licensee and shall be effective as of the date You accept the terms of this Agreement by any of the means noted above.1. DEFINITIONS1.1 Documentation means the user guide, help information, content and/or other documentation and materials accompanying and associated with the Software, including associated media, printed materials and any “online” or electronic documentation provided by Freedom Scientific for use with the Software. 1.2 Organizational License means any institutional, organizational or enterprise license, including without limit, the Freedom Scientific Software License Agreement, granted by Freedom Scientific to an Organizational Licensee for use of the Program with the intended use by the employees or contractors of the Organization as End-Users. Organizational Licensees agree through these Organizational Licenses to be responsible and liable for any and all use by the individual End Users. 1.3 Organizational Licensee means any company, organization or governmental institution that receives an Organizational License to the Program from Freedom Scientific, subject to each individual End User agreeing to a EULA governing their use of the Program. 1.4 Software means any Freedom Scientific computer program (in object code) provided to and downloaded, installed or accessed by End User pursuant to this Agreement. 1.5 Update means, if applicable, any patch, update or new version of the Software for the Program delivered to an End User pursuant to this EULA or an Organizational License. 1.6 Program means, collectively, the Software, Updates, and all related Documentation. 1.7 End User means You as either an individual Licensee, if You are licensing the Program directly, or as an employee or contractor who is authorized by an Organizational Licensee to use the Program. References to “You” or End User” refer to You as the licensee and user of the Program pursuant to your applicable Licenses. 2. LICENSE TO THE PROGRAM2.1 General Licensing Provisions for the Program.Freedom Scientific provides You with the Program You have downloaded, received in a package with this Agreement or received by other authorized means for Your use in accordance with the terms and conditions of Licenses granted to You and any Organizational License. The terms applicable to End Users in the Organizational License are incorporated by reference into this Agreement. Freedom Scientific makes the Program available in different Editions and Licenses described more fully in this Section 2. The general terms and conditions of the License apply to all Editions and Licenses, unless limited or specifically noted in this Section 2.2.2 License Grant.Subject to the terms and conditions in this Agreement, and the specific License Rights and Limitations in Section 2.3 to 2.5 that apply to your Edition and Mode, Freedom Scientific grants to You a limited, nonexclusive, nontransferable, nonsublicensable license to use the Program
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? Hello,Not really, its an opinion based blog, and I think the guy has a very valid point. The fact that just by downloading the software you are already agreeing tthe license agreement is just ridiculous, and that for a developer to test with Jaws they have to buy it. I think Ive just lost a lot of respect for freedom scientific. Oh, and I bet they wont be like mainstream companies and provide review codes to people who ask either. This is just, in my opinion, very wrong to say the least. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222621#p222621 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? Yup; it is clear that freedomscientific is willing to put accessibility of software and sites in general a very far distant second to profit. Im just thankful that we have NVDA, and eagerly await the day where I can ditch jaws for good. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222625#p222625 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
Re: greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? @2 Um... a lot of us call them Greedom Science Fiction, trust me, youll hear that name again. secondly, I as well lost any and all respect for them, not that there was much left after their long period of non-innovation and shovelling the same old muck down our throats. I have been an NVDA user since around 2009 and happier for it. Am I going to receive letters in the mail, oh wait, they dont even have my address, Do I need to write a disclaimer on this post, Im so scared Ill be sued... Lol, they can try, Im broke, theyll get 0.The above mensioned statements are my opinion alone and are not to be taken as factual. Any intent anyone perceives to represent my intent to slander Freedom Scientific as an entity or any one individual employed by the entity is thereby nullified. No defamation was intended either.There, I covered my ass like a good American. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222626#p222626 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to?
greedom science fiction, what did I just agree to? I have a blog post somebody showed me that you all might like. Its about the jfw license agreement which you are instantly bound to, as soon as you click a single download link on the software.Enjoy!http://chrishofstader.com/what-did-i-just-agree-to/ URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=222564#p222564 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
