Re: help from python users
Re: help from python users Firstly, if/when Nuitka works well switching is literally free, so not using it now doesn't put anyone behind because you can just install and use it.But this *is* objective. Just go to nuitka.net and go down their bugs list in their latest releases. Some highlights from just the last few months:Fix, the .pyi file parser didn't handle relative imports. Fix, was memory leaking arguments of all complex call helper functions. Windows: Fixup for multiprocessing module and complex call helpers that could crash the program. Fix, the frame caching could leak memory when using caching for functions and generators used in Fix, getattr, setattr and hasattr could not be used in finally clauses anymore. Fix, loop optimization sometimes didn't determinate, effectively making Nuitka run forever, with no indication why. This has been fixed and a mechanism to give up after too many attempts has been added.Fix, closure taking object allowed a brief period where the garbage collector was exposed to uninitialized objects. Windows: Avoid encoding issues for Python3 on more systems, by going from wide characters to unicode strings more directly, avoiding an encoding as UTF8 in the middle. There's something like 20 or 30 bugs per release, that's just the highlights. But notice: your program might leak memory. Your program might crash. The encoding bug would probably hit translation to Japanese on Windows or whatever. Yeah they've fixed them. I haven't even started quoting the various "this thing about standalone didn't work" ones, when standalone is what you're using for redistribution. But what's next? You don't know. Neither you nor I have the expertise to easily find out. They're still at the stage where their compiler can just freeze.And yeah, as for Synthizer it builds the entire thing in CI in around 6 or 7 minutes, which is either a 1 or 2 core incredibly low end VM without an SSD or anything, and certainly much less powerful than your laptop (indeed: I'm moving to GitHub workflows because once it's doing all the Ci things we'll be building for 8 or 10 platforms and Appveyor doesn't go parallel).My advice is this. If it's really, really that important to you that your whole program compiles, go use a compiled language and make the productivity trade-off of not using something so high-level as Python. Your time is more valuable than the tiny bit of extra time it takes your program to start, especially since building your program will take longer than 0.25 or 0.5 seconds or whatever it is you're seeing. But if you're not always running your program through Nuitka when testing it, you shouldn't use Nuitka because the environments function differently, so you should at least be doing that much. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/615504/#p615504 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: help from python users
Re: help from python users Well, as far as I can see, Synthizer builds on run-down CI VMs too in reasonably low time. But in the end, it doesn't matter at all. Nuitka is there, because someone thought it would be a cool idea and built it. Camlorn has legitimate reasons not to use it, but its just as fair that there are people who are using it. Learning is a process, maybe he will crash with it some day, maybe he won't and nuitka will develop into a beast over the next few years and he will come out on top, having a great product that not just compiles fast enough, but runs smoothly and works just amazingly fine, who knows? Personally I never gave it a try and went with Cython all the time for the stuff I needed to do compiled to improve algorithm performance at a fairly low level (mostly O(N) optimization problems) or when wanting to build a wrapper around a shared library without having to go with ctypes. But i'm kinda interested in it and will give it a try as soon as I can get a weekend free for it to actually happen. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/615482/#p615482 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: help from python users
Re: help from python users @11:Point taken. Yes, that does include downloading GCC/other tools, unzipping, and installing silently. In regards to Synthizer building in half that time: point taken, though do remember you are on a much, much more powerful setup than am I. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/615286/#p615286 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: help from python users
Re: help from python users Uh. All of Synthizer builds from scratch in half that time even though I use a bunch of C++ features that are known for being very slow and it's like 2 lines counting dependencies. You're telling me that 2 lines takes 3 minutes. Hopefully that's including downloading the tools? if it's not then I entirely stand by my half an hour for big projects prediction.Also you're literally saying that a main.py which calls your main function is the alternative. That's like 3 lines. it doesn't reveal any of your code because everything behind that main function is still hidden. 3 lines, and maybe needing to write a script, plus let's not forget that at your skill level code protection probably doesn't matter, vs. beta compiler that takes 3 minutes and presumably because of that you're not actually testing it in the prod configuration? Don't do this. It will bite you. But I doubt you're going to listen, so probably see you in a few months when this finally explodes because you tried to do something actually complicated with it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/615281/#p615281 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: help from python users
Re: help from python users
@9:Yeah, it has certainly improved a lot. I'm not sure what version you tried, but we're now on 0.6.12.1. It's still far from perfect, but 30 minute build times for a simple:print("Heelo.")
input()should build in under 3 minutes. Which if we're comparing to Pyinstaller is pretty bad, but for how fast Nuitka executables open, it truly isn't bad. That's the main reason I'm willing to make the traidoff; executables created with Nuitka will open in like, a second tops. In addition, if I want to Cythonize for code protection, with pyinstaller I would have tomake a main.py file that runs my actual main function and won't be cythonized.Either cythonize by hand, or make a Python script to do it for you.Nuitka takes a lot of that away from you. Also, there's no nuitkaxtractor.py or whatever for people to fuck around in my source tree. My biggest gripe with it is after like waiting for a few minutes for your build, sometimes it just won't run, and you can't see why unless you have something outputting the console or sys.stderr. Often times it's the console, which is annoying if you're like me and use the --windows-disable-console flag; you have to rebuild the hole project without that to get the output if the error doesn't write to sys.stderr for whatever reason. I had this issue with Pyinstaller as well, but that took a minute to rebuild, max. A feature that would be nice in nuitka is if you could tell it to use your built modules already, thus making it only need to rebuild the exe file
URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/615269/#p615269
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Re: help from python users
Re: help from python users Interesting. It's possible Nuitka has improved, but the problem with it is that if you have a complex dependency graph it has to compile all your dependencies. When I used it, I forget what it was on, but lots of imports and things and it just slowed it way down.In the end you're either going to just use interpreted Python, or you're going to use a compiled language. They still fix codegen bugs every release. If you aren't always running compiled Python you will discover at some point that there are behavior changes/miscompilations and then you will be very very sad.The compile times are only my second-most important reason for not using it; my most important reason is that I value reliability, and they have yet to convince me that they're reliable. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/615251/#p615251 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: help from python users
Re: help from python users @7: I actually use Nuitka and it's literally fine, takes at most 10 minutes when I initially run it, and that's to download C compilers and all that. Usually after that it does take a bit, but I'd honestly don't mind it. I can see why it could be a deal breaker, but 30 minutes for a small project is unseen on my end.You can also use py2exe like NVDA and TW Blue does, or Pyinstaller like every audiogame developer and their mother do. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/615213/#p615213 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: help from python users
Re: help from python users I mean technically there is Nuitka but there's a reason that no one uses it, starting at "it literally can take half an hour to compile your small project" and ending at "and then it crahes because Nuitka is beta". There's also technically Numba which can do a subset of Python and run it on the GPU, and which is one of the most popular packages used by machine learning researchers because it can often take your big mathematical algorithm and get it going on your GPU cluster supercomputer thingie with a few extra lines.But neither is suitable for audiogames: Nuitka for the obvious reasons, Numba because Numba binaries aren't really distributable at all and it can't run over your whole project. There's a reason I don't bring them up here often in other words. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/615187/#p615187 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: help from python users
Re: help from python users python is an interpreted language. you'll want to google what the difference between compiled and interpreted languages is.basically, there is no compilation step. you run the program by giving the python interpreter your source code, an and it will, as the name suggest, interpret it and execute it.you can get the python interpreter from the official python website. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/615143/#p615143 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: help from python users
Re: help from python users Well, Cython translates into C which then gets compiled, so its at least more compiled than pure Python, but still, it requires an interpreter to run. If you're in desperate need of a compiled language, you should go check out other languages than Python. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/615130/#p615130 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: help from python users
Re: help from python users Cython is not a true compiler. I don’t think python can be compiled, it is an interpreted language. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t tools to turn python code into an executable, but they package python with them in order to interpret the code. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/615111/#p615111 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: help from python users
2021-02-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : GrannyCheeseWheel via Audiogames-reflector
Re: help from python users The official interpreter is not a compiler, it's an interpreter. I mean, the one everyone uses is Cython. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/615083/#p615083 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: help from python users
Re: help from python users I hear the official interpretor is pretty good... what else do you need? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/615082/#p615082 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
help from python users
2021-02-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : Blue-Eyed Demon via Audiogames-reflector
help from python users Hello everyone.So I am just kind of getting into coding in python recently, and I was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of a good compiler. The help would be much appreciated. Thanks y'all. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/615081/#p615081 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
