Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering [[wow]] guys, this sounds really awesome If you can get done something it will be really great. Start from a existing point, using a existing mtg engine will make the things easier. Now, use java to build the client... Well you know that the accesibility of the java GUIS aren't a lot of accessible that we want.Well, continue with this project! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=320351#p320351 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering Hi,as far as I can see since i'm playing around with this stuff the client already supports plugins / extensions which you can just drop in and they will do their job. That enables you to just create a repository of some sort on GitHub or somewhere else, develop your plugin, pack it down into a jar file and drop it into the XMage plugins folder. And if you think your plugin needs some more advanced API functions, you could contribute to XMage itself providing this function. I don't think that the XMage developers will reject more advanced API functionalities, since those will help other plugins too in the future.That's how the whole extension/plugin system is intended to work in most cases and this should be applicable here too.Best Regards.Hijacker URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=319777#p319777 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering
2017-07-16
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : TJ . Breitenfeldt via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering This looks exactly like what I need.I did speak with Wizards of the Coast, and I asked permission for building the table top based magic the gathering game that vcaparica suggested, but unfortunately they denied me privilege in building a audio game of this. I did tell them that the products they are providing are not accessible, and to consider building accessibility features into their app or online games that already exist. I was told that my feedback did get passed on to the development team.A side note, I also found out that screen reader users can not create accounts on their website, because they do not provide accessibility features for getting passed the captcha to submit your user account information. I mentioned that as well to them.So, I may work on the tabletop version as a side project, but not necessarily release it to the public. However, it looks like XMage has been around for quite a while, is open source, and has a pretty strong followi ng. I would feel better about contributing toward that project, because regardless of weather they got permission or not from Wizards, the project is still up and being developed, even if the original developer got a cease and desist letter.Which raises the next question, how to go about making this accessible, I think that providing some add on of some sort would be ideal so that people can take advantages of the new updates people put out on git hub, rather than building a completely different version that is stuck at the version that I built in accessibility, but I am not sure where to start with this. I may turn this into a project for school, we will see. Does anyone have any suggestions of where to start?TJ Breitenfeldt URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=319726#p319726 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering I'm very much looking forward to the results of this project. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=319077#p319077 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering That sounds awesome. If someone's already implemented it, then, as Hijacker said, making it accessible would be a much more manageable feat than programming all the rules... which is what I was wary about. This looks like a much more achievable thing than it originally did, good luck URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=318505#p318505 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering If you account for lands which are by far the most numerous cards in any match, and also account the fact that except by Legends every player will have more than one copy of each card in his deck, then a single match would handle 50 to 80 different cards, eventually less. I also agree with file formats, open is better. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=318000#p318000 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering Hi,[[wow]], that came unexpected. Thanks for pointing that one out, didn't expect it to be so many cards.Anyway, you don't actually have to load all cards each time the game runs, didn't you? You actually do just need to load the classes as soon as any player plays this card, but in no other case. This reduces the classes instanciated to a maximum of a thousand (one very very long gaming sessions with more than 10 decks per player, if you calculate with two players, and no card may exist twice). This is totally acceptable. I'd expect the amount to be drastically lower (maybe something around 200 in one average gaming session?).I can just repeat myself, YGOPro does it like this, and it works without any slowdowns or such stuff, that's just fine.I don't recommend to use any new file format for this. This forces users to use your (and only your!) tools to modify it, and if they don't like it, you miss some probably really hel pful users who could have assisted you if they had more choices. Using an open database format like SQLite 3 (which is a database system which enables you to search data quickly without much time lost) enables your users to use any database editing frontend they like. Hell yeah, there is even a Firefox add-on out there which is just amazing and you don't even need to install any application to your computer, as long as you got Firefox. There are command-line versions. And so on. Anyone will find a GUI which fits his needs. That's an opportunity a single-man-project shouldn't miss out.Best Regards.Hijacker URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317996#p317996 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering Hi,so yes, there need to be one class per card, at last that's what i would do, and no, magic doesn't have 10,000 cards yet, it barely has as much as Yu-Gi-Oh has, and that's just something around 4,000 to 5,000.Anyway, those are just some few files which don't take very much space for each one.YGOPro uses a splitted system. It contains one database file (sqlite3) which contains all cards with an unique id, the card text, the possibility to set small text pieces (more of that later), attack and defense power, the element, the type... and all that kind of stuff. When loading this database, YGOPro then looks if it can find a lua script for the id found in the database, and if yes, loads this lua script to backup the card class already existing in the game itself. If it doesn't find a lua script with the id of the card, the card simply doesn't have any effects and therefore just is a useless spell, trap, or monster card.The text pieces are shown on screen if the card e.g. has multiple effects. You can then left click the card you want to activate and the game will show you a selection screen with as many choices as the card has effects and as many text pieces as the card has effects and each text piece will be mapped to one effect of the card and describe it in a KISS (keep-it-short-and-simple) way.Example:First effect: pay 1 to tab cardSecond effect: pay 1 to untab cardThis way of handling databases makes it easy to translate the game without losing any functionality, because everything you must do here is to change the texts. As long as the ids stay the same, the game can map the lua scripts towards the cards and all will work as expected.Best Regards.Hijacker URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317980#p317980 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering It's complicated and nothing I would expect one man to do on his own, alone, with the need to program each card himself, that's what I already said.But it isn't impossible. Wizards of the Coast themselves provided a Magic The Gathering game on their own, even if it isn't accessible at all. YGOPro prooves that it is possible even for community-projects to bloom and support full-featured effect chaining and such stuff, but it takes time and many ambitioned people.It would be nice to have such simple tabletop simulator like Cockatrice, this would actually enable us to play Magic at all, but I can tell you from my own experience it's loads more fun to have a client which supports all functionalities on it's own, not just because it fixes all misunderstanding problems you might have with some effects automatically.Best Regards.Hijacker URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317540#p317540 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering I play Magic. A major part of the game are combos--groups of cards whose effects interact with one another to create a situation that usually leads to either an instant win or a major advantage for the player who played the combo. I'll give an example of one: in my Merfolk themed deck, I have the cards "Wanderwine Prophets", "Sygg, River Guide", and "Seahunter". The interaction works like this:1. Every time Wanderwine Prophets does combat damage to a player (the attack is not blocked by a creature), I have the option of sacrificing a merfolk creature (taking it out of play and putting it into the graveyard). Doing so will allow me to play another turn.2. I can pay mana to let Sygg, River Guide give protection to Wanderwine Prophets from the colours of the creatures my enemy has which would block its attacks.3. Seahunter allows me to pay mana to search my deck for any merfolk creature card and put it directly onto the battlefi eld.The result is that I can attack as many times as I have merfolk in my deck without allowing my opponent to attack, as each turn I use Seahunter's ability to fetch a new Merfolk for Wanderwine Prophets to sacrifice, letting me play another turn almost indefinitely (I have a lot of merfolk in my deck).Things like this are what makes MTG hard to program effects for and why Cockatrice is 'simple-minded'--because things like this are easy for players to reason about but hard to program into a computer.So I think that forking Cockatrice might be the best place to start, or at least making something similar, perhaps with a decent guide to how to play Magic built into it. I would not wanna be the guy who has to make sure all the combos work (there are many possibilities). URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317513#p317513 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering If you would like to chat about this project, I have many ideas waiting for a programmer. My skype username is cego.em.tiroteio URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317377#p317377 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering Oh, boy, I thought the message was sent but it posted just the first paragraphs. I'll rewrite, perhaps this time I'll be shorter.TLDR: You don't need to code all this stuff. You don't NEED automation. All you really need is a P2P client that manages cards, moving cards from buffer to buffer, and a chat. The players can do the rest.Now, introducing Dragonstudios' Apprentice for those who don't know it.Back in the 90's, a bunch of guys named Dragonstudios released Apprentice, a P2P software to play MtG online. The software was very small, used very simple graphics, and had no automation at all. Despite that, it was a hit. Thousands of people played using it, there was the PlaneswalkerLeague centered on IRC channels that promoted tournaments almost everyday. Here in Brazil we had LigaMagic which was our national version of Planeswalker League, so I imagine that many other countries had their own.What did Apprentice consis t on? The window was divided into menubars, toolbars, sidebar, main tabletop and chat bar. On the left side, there was the sidebar which showed your hand on a list, every row containing the card name and casting cost. The chat bar was on the bottom of screen. The toolbar and menubar were atop everything and 70% of the screen was the tabletop, where you could drag and drop cards and right-click them to access quick actions such as tap or bury. The toolbar contained buttons such as "Draw Card", "+1 Life", "-1 Life", "Advance Phase", "Pass Turn", "+1 Counter", "+1/+1", and so on. Now, I'm probably getting redundant, but I'll explain why it worked for many, many years without any automation.You're gonna attack. You choose and declare attackers, tap them and it goes. Your opponent sees your tapped attackers and declares and assigns blockers. You and your opponent both know who died and who didn 39;t. You know how double strike works, just so you can play with real cards on a tabletop without any computers. The non-blocked creatures will deal say 6 damage to your opponent, and he knows that he needs to lower his life points by six. And if he doesn't, if anybody runs out of the rules, well, same things applies online and offline, specially if a third person, a judge for tournaments, can be watching. Besides all the talking, the chat would also register every action, so there would be no problem determining what happened.So, that's it. I don't think you need to code all of Magic's functionalities so it runs things for you, you just need a platform with a nice deck editor that allows you to run the game yourself. I tried a lot to reproduce Apprentice in an accessible application, but I seriously lack even the most basic programming skills. Hope this ideas can help you.PS: On card databases, try googling for magic the gathering full card spoile rs, it will take you to text listings of all cards, then you can parse and store it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317374#p317374 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering
2017-06-29
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : TJ . Breitenfeldt via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering Hi vcaparica, I would be happy to take other suggestions, I am still pondering how to do this, so if you have a different idea, please share. TJ Breitenfeldt URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317370#p317370 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering Hi,First of all, this idea is something I've wanted to do since a long time, but unfortunately I lack the programming skills needed, so your topic got me very happy Let me suggest a completely different approach to the problem URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317369#p317369 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering That's right, I didn't think of these. The card transformation stuff could be done quite easy. Just create a new class which is now a creature, with the ability to tap and gain one mana, since that's actually the same thing. Of course this creature must react on cards which search for land targets, but this should be no problem. The artifact creatures are a bit harder though. It might be the best way to implement a separate class for those, inheriting the creature and just setting up the artifact features on top of it. Just my spontaneous ideas. I didn't take very much time to re-invent the wheel though. Since I don't plan to make such things I didn't create a nice class model for it. Anyway, you see, its all but not an easy attempt you're trying here.Best Regards.Hijacker URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=316720#p316720 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering
2017-06-24
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : TJ . Breitenfeldt via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering Okay, that makes sense, but if I have a card that is an artifact creature how do I pull in the properties of both the creature class and the artifact class? Also, I suppose I will want a design that will account for being able to switch card types, since some cards directly effect card type, such as make 1 of your land into a 1/1 token or something.TJ Breitenfeldt URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=316706#p316706 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering Hi,so it shouldn't be necessary to add classes to support things like "permanent", "quickplay" or effects like "haste" or "defender". All those things can be toggled with flags instead of parent classes. With this way you can reduce classes to Creature, Spell, Land, Artifact and some more, and that should be it. This skips the multiple parents problem you're javing with Java. But that's one of the reasons I don't like Java as a language, I like multiple parents, even if you can usually avoid such structures.Best Regards.Hijacker URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=31#p31 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering
2017-06-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : TJ . Breitenfeldt via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering Hi, thank you for the tips. I am working on getting my bachelors in computer science, but I just finished my first year of programming classes. I have two more years left. I will take a look with google to see if I can dig some things up. That is what I was thinking, there are a lot of commonalities between all of the cards, and a lot of the effects are the same on different cards. There are some strange effects sometimes that really aren't shared with other cards, but that is not the norm. I haven't built a game yet, that I can say I am proud of, and this didn't seem terribly hard if I can figure out how to handle the cards. It is complicated, but I think with in my skill level. I primarily wanted to use java to build this because that is the language I am learning in my classes for the most part, so I know java the best. I also felt that object oriented programming would fit this type of project well, however I am running into an issue because java doesn 39;t allow for a child class to have two or more parents. I think the way I was designing it may have worked, but I don't think I should use java if I am going to approach this problem using object oriented programming. Main problem is that I have a card class, and all card cards have names, then I have a class called permanence, which all permanents can be tapped, then I have a creature class, and the creature class has various properties, and finally I would create a class for each creature, passing in its properties up the hierarchy, however creatures can be more than one card type, so I would have to make the creature I am working on extend the Creature class as well as say the Artifact class, which I can't do in java. Sure I can use interfaces, but I can't get the same effect as I am wanting with classes. I think I need a different language, or a different approach.I started looking at BGT, and I have a couple questions on that which I will post in a diffe rent thread, I was also just thinking of learning C++. I know that it can do what I want and more, but I took a C class at one point and I did not like it. I am going to have to learn it for my degree eventually though.TJ Breitenfeldt URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=316633#p316633 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering Let's try that again. It seems to have lost my entire post!I highly recommend googling "programming MTG card effects" or "programming TCG card effects". There are a lot of posts out there and you may be able to pull together some ideas from them.Note that I've never programmed this kind of thing myself, but I've done some research into it while considering making an accessible digital version of a card game called Sentinels of the Multiverse. I'll refer to it in the rest of the post as examples. The basic idea is that you want to be able to reuse things as much as possible. Think about what core actions or effects exist in the game. For example, in Sentinels, and I suspect in Magic, there are effects like gaining/losing hit points, increasing/decreasing damage dealt, increasing/decreasing damage taken, being immune to certain types of damage, etc. You want to code the effects, not the cards themselves. Keywords can be useful in that they might determine some rule that the game needs to keep track of. For example, Sentinels has the "ongoing" keyword to mean that a card's effects remain active until it is trashed.If you've ever played Tactical Battle, looking at how the game allows people to create their own units, maps, etc, is a good way to understand what you're trying to achieve. Ideally, you should be able to write a custom card with effects that are already implemented in the code, and have it work smoothly with the other existing cards.I don't know what you're programming experience is, so I won't make assumptions about your abilities. If you're determined enough, and you start off small, getting a few cards to work, and expanding from there, I don't see why you couldn't get somewhere with this. At the very least, it's a great learning experience.Sorry if this was kind of vague and rambling. Since I don't have speci fic experience with implementing this type of program, I don't want to give you misleading information. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=316629#p316629 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering I highly recommend googling URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=316629#p316629 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering Don't bother trying this. That's exactly the same global concerns like Apple try to do with systems like Siri, you know why their functions are limited right? Yeah, because they don't understand what you want from them, at least not in most of all cases. Just because the word "flying" happens to appear in the text it doesn't mean that this creature is actually flying, it could mean around 100 other things besides that. There are people alive who try to investigate learning algorithms which really understand text or pictures and are doing this for 20 and more years now. You'd absolutely lose track of your main project when trying such attempt.Lua is by far the smallest and fastest scripting language available. It's standard library doesn't contain very much, but with around 100 kilobytes of size it fits nearly everywhere possible. It's strength llys in its embeddability. You can easily embed a lua stack into your game, expose an api to it and the user can script as far as they want without interfering with your main program or damaging something on runtime. That's how e.g. World Of Warcraft realizes it's monster and spell scripts and such stuff. The main game runs and just loads those scripts which implement the features of the possible enemies.To see more of lua, just Try yourself out and go hereBest Regards.Hijacker URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=316459#p316459 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering
Re: Creating Accessible Magic the Gathering Don't bother trying this. That's exactly the same global concerns like Apple try to do with systems like Siri, you know why their functions are limited right? Yeah, because they don't understand what you want from them, at least not in most of all cases. Just because the word URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=316459#p316459 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
