Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back @52It might take you somewhere but I'm not touching it with a 10 foot pole. Much of Quorum is about changing terminology and language syntax to match research papers rather than the rest of the industry, and it's as sandboxy as anything else, just with a larger sandbox. But each to their own.@53I'd guess tie. BGT has an advantage in that (if I recall) maps are only string keys, but Python dictionaries are one of the most optimized hashtable implementations on the face of the earth. BGT might win for smaller maps though, because many game scripting languages will optimize for that case at the cost of being able to handle large dicts well. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/548655/#p548655 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back Someone should do a speed comparison between python dictionaries and BGT ones, I think python would win by a decent margin. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/548636/#p548636 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back Well, we now have Quorum studio, with support for graphics. Let's see where this will take us. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/548630/#p548630 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back
@46. Well, there are alot of bgt limitations, some more obvious than others, but all valid nevertheless. I won't list all of them here, they are, I believe, all covered in some part of a post from a topic or another anyway. Instead, I'll list the ones I've hit my self or herd about people hitting across bgt's history, as to not clutter this post with too many uselessly spent words.The most important limitation of them all is the mediocre support for calling dlls. I'd say, if you can't get basic dll things right, then why bother releasing it?for one, it can't create, pass or in anyway modify what C calls structs. For that thing alone, almost 97% of C interfaces out there would need to first be wrapped in other dlls that manage the structs for the stupid bgt to make sense of them.for example, let's say you have this declaration in a file called something like capy.htypedef struct{float x;float y;float z;double angle;} rotate_vector_2d;and you have something like this:bool do_objects_collide(struct rotate_vector_2d *first, struct rotate_vector_2d *second);...and so on...This is a very simple C API, I get it and I get that structs are maybe not the most shini thing in this situation, but bare with me for this example.Bgt doesn't support creating and managing C stile structs like, for example, autoit, or any other language with dll support does, so, you'd need to create yet another dll to wrap it up. Let's say, now you created a dll that, by whatever means you want, knows how to reference the header file with that other function and struct declaration. In the wrap_capi.c, you'd have something like this:#include#includerotate_vector_2d* vector_new(float x, float y, float z, double angle){rotate_vector_2d *vec;vec->x=x;vec->y=y;vec->z=z;vec ->angle=angle;return vec;}//and because dlls don't know about program scope, we need to implement this as well, I think. Even if not, this is a good approach to follow if the struct is something heavy and memory consuming, like a file, image, socket, physics related things like solid bodies, etc.bool vector_free(struct rotate_2d_vector *vec){return free(vec);}and keep in mind you'd need to do something like this, perhaps minus the freeing function,every...fucking...time...you need to expose structs to bgt. Now, remember I said this trick only works for somewhat simple C API's with relatively flat and simple structs like I've shown you. But now, try to imagine you have something like this:typedef struct{float radius;point center; //assume we defined the point struct earlyer in this file or in some other included file}circle;typedef struct{engine_type type;int hp;circle wheels[4];} car;imagine trying to wrap that monstrosity, can you do it like I did the previous example? now, really think about that, OK?now, another thing you might find frustrating about bgt is that it doesn't support passing of function callbacks, again, unlike practically any language with dll capabilities.To be honest, I'm not going to explain what callbacks are in this post, suffice it to say, this is the only way for native dlls to pass events to their calling application, practically notifying them that something beyond their codespace happened. To better understand this, I'll provide, yet again, a short code example.typedef void callback_func(void *userdata);//couldn't figure out anything better for a more interesting/illustrative params list, sorry.void do_something_with_callbacks(callback_func *fnc, void *userdata){while(whatever){if(something_happened)fnc(userdata);}}well, if you'd need to access a function that requires callbacks like the one above, you'd be stuck in bgt, while with python or almost anything else really, you're not.At this point, you might ask, why the hell did you need to read through all that, including the C code? well, to be honest again, the C code wasn't really necessary, but I put it in to illustrate what I say with examples, I'm not really good with explanations, so this is as good a way of communicating as any other.But even the C code, you didn't read pointlessly, everything ties up together in a moment. In fact, those limitations of dll calling in bgt are, practically, for anyone really wanting to use such an outdated technology anyway, the only reason for which bgt didn't evolve any further. Without callbacks and structs, absolutely most of C interfaces are horibly hard to make compatible. Without compatible interfaces, we don't have libs. Without libs, we will never have plugins. And that's the gravest mistake of bgt, nowadays, it's practically a closed sandbox.All other limitations can be solved, if not elegantly, then at least decently, if those above didn't exist.the following is a very short and minimalistic list of the most important limitations of bgt, as requested.no json support, including serialisation and deserialisationno xml support, including serialisation and deserialisationcan't use rest or sope API's/web servi
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back Will do a test of that later on. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/548410/#p548410 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back @48You're talking about networked fpss, if I'm not mistaken. Networking comes with an inherent 50ms lag minimum, usually much more, and without very well done client-side prediction you can't hide it.In order to determine whether it's the game's networking code or the game's algorithms, you look at the CPU usage on the server. Low CPU usage but high lag is networking, high CPU usage and high lag is work on your algorithms.if it is slow because of algorithms, my money is on collision that looks like this:for a in objects: for b in objects: if a.collides_with(b): # somethingWhich (irregardless of language) will become laggy very quickly. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/548399/#p548399 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back @Camlorn, sometimes if you play undead Asalt, for example, sometimes you can experience truly atrotious lag. Even first opening the client, to joining a map for the 1ST time you will experience lag, or a delay. However I suspect that the huge delay is probably due to the game loading all files on start up, to reduce lag later on, however sadly even while you're playing on maps you get noticible lag. But its not as bad, or even as common place than say Blood Storm. With ruftly the same number of people connected, and on the same map at the same time. However Blood Storm does have a way larger map. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/548389/#p548389 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back @45Python is fast enough for an FPS. I don't know why people think it isn't. Doom runs on the lowest end pocket calculators these days, and ours doesn't even have graphics. At the upper end of an online game with a hundred players and 50 areas and each player goes to a different area so you have to simulate all 50 areas at once, and you're running astar everywhere--sure, it'll start having problems. But even Swamp has 5 maps total. People talk about how Python has speed issues, but no one ever says "here is my game, and I failed because it's slow". Talking about speed is just this mythical thing that floats around audiogames.net, the only thing that I know of that had speed issues was SoundRTS, and that wasn't Python, it was just replacing lists (which are arrays) with sets because checking if something is in an array of a thousand items is slow no matter the language. And most people didn't notice, we just fixed it because there was a group of 5 or 6 of us who started playing with literally thousands of units, and once the data structures were swapped it went from unplayably laggy to lag-free.Size of the app doesn't matter, because size of the sounds dominates anything else for any reasonably sized game.C# can be as easily decompiled as Python. You don't quite get the same level of "here is your actual source code" out of it, but the .net framework uses an intermediate language that's much higher level than assembly. I think there's tooling to go all the way to native code, but if you don't you can actually even introspect the classes in the executable, recover attribute names, etc., it's not that hard. System.reflection exists, in other words, which means that if you don't go out of your way you're shipping a database of every type in your program sufficient to be called dynamically with not that much work. Your encrypted sound database that uses in memory streams etc etc etc? Hold my beer.C# is fine as far as it goes. I won't use it because I was programming in 2010 and I refuse to get shafted if an IDE goes inaccessible on me, but in general use whatever you like. But the reasons you're saying you chose it for don't matter much either way, and you're gaining much less security than you think you are. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/548383/#p548383 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back @45 this is a bit cherry picky but after reading your post i have a question. What you mean with limitation, except the obwious one, no gui? Personally i don't see where you would get to the point where limits stop you in game development.And a hint, ya mait want to let your username change, i mean you don't seam me like a bgt lover xd. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/548326/#p548326 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back Hy guys!@camlorn, I'm sorry for other bgt users, but I totally agree with you here. Indeed bgt is dead and so it shall be, everyone who is using it is hitting a dead horse for too long now. The warrying thing is that this fenomenon is not going to stop untill, perhaps, windows will break something critical enough that every bgt game out there will crash at startup, otherwise, I don't see a very optimistic result ahead of us on this line.Sometime ago, I really stood and annalised the thing, the entire problem, as best as I could and know it so far. Now, after turning the coin both sides for almost half a day, I think I understand what's going on.So, basically, bgt is, even now with today's technologies and frameworks, like the concept of the dark side of the force in star wars. In other words, bgt is guaranteed to offer you shortcuts to power, it's seducing like hell so that it worpped the minds of some that could have been wanderfull programmers otherwise, and is generally more quick and easy and besides, like the dark side feeds on the natural imotions of anger and hate from the user, so does bgt have some great games written in it and uses this fakt to its advantage, recruting more newbies.However, like the dark side, as much as it offers power, strength, imortality, whatever, so does everything its offering come at a terible price, limitation. Basically, when you reach those limitations, you're out of luck. When using bgt a long time ago, I hit those limitations pretty hard, so I bounced backwards all the way off the bridge, hitting python for a short while, then pb, for an even shorter time than with python(literarely afew days at best) and, finally, to c#, where I am to this day.Now, let's inspect the other side of the coin, we must do that as well, right?Bgt is dead, I get that. Bgt is a pile of trash, I get that as well. Bgt is limeted, I get and agree with that, too. Bgt encourages some...questionable, if not down right horible, programming stiles considering the design patterns and other tricks practiced today, I really experienced that, it hits later in more serious development, believe me. But, I really have to ask this question, for the sake of asking, what choices do we have currently? Let's see...for one, we have pb.Pure basic, or as I and others like to call it, pb, is designed with games in mind, as they say, one of its strong points. I believe that, for this thing alone, even if it's not really true in the first place, some people around here are using it, good luck to them.However, what I don't like about pb is the fact that, as someone stated before, even if it's marketed as a very simple language, it's actually not.I get it, it has some really awesome libs, plus the cross platform part. Want me to tell you something, pb is as much cross platform, in my opinion, as C or C++ are. yeah, it abstracts away things for you, but it compiles the same native code from a functionality standpoint as your tipical gcc or msvc would generate. And as an added minus, it doesn't even use llvm, so no cross compilation for you, dear user!But, that's not quite the point I'm trying to make, rather another idiom or whatever for not using pb.My actual point is, or should be, pretty obvious. Well, how could a language priced 79 euros at its minimum, still expect its users to manage memory on their own? so, pb users, I'm telling you, you are paying that amount of money for a bunch of interesting C libs, a very accessible ide, I admit, some docs that are almost nothing to the beginner and, I think, that's all.So, for me at least, pb fals out of the equation, unfortunately. I, personally, won't have the patience to create games that can't use oop, or in the building of which I have to manage memory manually. That's why we ran away from C and C++, right?if it comes to that, I'd rather invest and learn to use azure along with a language like c#, this will bring me a long way forward. But this is besides the point, so let's go on.2: python.Contrary to popular belief around here, python is really easy to learn, more english like than even basic, pascal, or whatever, in my eternal, undieing opinion. and again, contrary to popular belief, not only through learning bgt first you can learn python. If we step outside our little community, try to awquardly land in this horible sighted world, a quick google search for python beginner tutorials can easily overwhelm a harddrive of 1 TB with text alone. I'm exagerating and all that, but I think you got the point alright.Now, python was my favourite programming language for quite a while. Even though things have changed, I still consider it my second on the list.for one, the amount of learning resources and tutorials is, as I've said, staggeringly high. As a little joke someone said around here, google is practically maried to python, lol.Something else I like about python is how it can adapt to many workflows and stiles, that's why it was chosen
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back Hy guys!@camlorn, I'm sorry for other bgt users, but I totally agree with you here. Indeed bgt is dead and so it shall be, everyone who is using it is hitting a dead horse for too long now. The warrying thing is that this fenomenon is not going to stop untill, perhaps, windows will break something critical enough that every bgt game out there will crash at startup, otherwise, I don't see a very optimistic result ahead of us on this line.Sometime ago, I really stood and annalised the thing, the entire problem, as best as I could and know it so far. Now, after turning the coin both sides for almost half a day, I think I understand what's going on.So, basically, bgt is, even now with today's technologies and frameworks, like the concept of the dark side of the force in star wars. In other words, bgt is guaranteed to offer you shortcuts to power, it's seducing like hell so that it worpped the minds of some that could have been wanderfull programmers otherwise, and is generally more quick and easy and besides, like the dark side feeds on the natural imotions of anger and hate from the user, so does bgt have some great games written in it and uses this fakt to its advantage, recruting more newbies.However, like the dark side, as much as it offers power, strength, imortality, whatever, so does everything its offering come at a terible price, limitation. Basically, when you reach those limitations, you're out of luck. When using bgt a long time ago, I hit those limitations pretty hard, so I bounced backwards all the way off the bridge, hitting python for a short while, then pb, for an even shorter time than with python(literarely afew days at best) and, finally, to c#, where I am to this day.Now, let's inspect the other side of the coin, we must do that as well, right?Bgt is dead, I get that. Bgt is a pile of trash, I get that as well. Bgt is limeted, I get and agree with that, too. Bgt encourages some...questionable, if not down right horible, programming stiles considering the design patterns and other tricks practiced today, I really experienced that, it hits later in more serious development, believe me. But, I really have to ask this question, for the sake of asking, what choices do we have currently? Let's see...for one, we have pb.Pure basic, or as I and others like to call it, pb, is designed with games in mind, as they say, one of its strong points. I believe that, for this thing alone, even if it's not really true in the first place, some people around here are using it, good luck to them.However, what I don't like about pb is the fact that, as someone stated before, even if it's marketed as a very simple language, it's actually not.I get it, it has some really awesome libs, plus the cross platform part. Want me to tell you something, pb is as much cross platform, in my opinion, as C or C++ are. yeah, it abstracts away things for you, but it compiles the same native code from a functionality standpoint as your tipical gcc or msvc would generate. And as an added minus, it doesn't even use llvm, so no cross compilation for you, dear user!But, that's not quite the point I'm trying to make, rather another idiom or whatever for not using pb.My actual point is, or should be, pretty obvious. Well, how could a language priced 79 euros at its minimum, still expect its users to manage memory on their own? so, pb users, I'm telling you, you are paying that amount of money for a bunch of interesting C libs, a very accessible ide, I admit, some docs that are almost nothing to the beginner and, I think, that's all.So, for me at least, pb fals out of the equation, unfortunately. I, personally, won't have the patience to create games that can't use oop, or in the building of which I have to manage memory manually. That's why we ran away from C and C++, right?if it comes to that, I'd rather invest and learn to use azure along with a language like c#, this will bring me a long way forward. But this is besides the point, so let's go on.2: python.Contrary to popular belief around here, python is really easy to learn, more english like than even basic, pascal, or whatever, in my eternal, undieing opinion. and again, contrary to popular belief, not only through learning bgt first you can learn python. If we step outside our little community, try to awquardly land in this horible sighted world, a quick google search for python beginner tutorials can easily overwhelm a harddrive of 1 TB with text alone. I'm exagerating and all that, but I think you got the point alright.Now, python was my favourite programming language for quite a while. Even though things have changed, I still consider it my second on the list.for one, the amount of learning resources and tutorials is, as I've said, staggeringly high. As a little joke someone said around here, google is practically maried to python, lol.Something else I like about python is how it can adapt to many workflows and stiles, that's why it was chosen
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back @41PB is more popular than you give it credit for, and has been pervasive for a long time. It's only recently that PB has stopped being the thing people leave BGT for. Unfortunately for those who do, PB is in many ways a step down because it requires manually managing memory, and I suspect that that's why we don't have a lot of games written in it. PB sells itself as easy, but is about as hard as C in many respects, and by the time you've worked that out you're out $80 and have wasted a bunch of time. So I'm guessing a lot of people who went down that path just eventually gave up.I'm not claiming that people who buy PB are cracking things. But I'm also not generalizing from a couple examples. I've been around a long time, and a relatively popular BGT endgame is trying PB instead. I suspect that now (finally) people are landing on something mainstream instead, but the point stands. This community is odd enough that going and buying a niche programming language when you're still learning to program seems like a good idea to many, and when you try to counter that you just end up running into a brick wall. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547942/#p547942 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back Yeah, I shouldn't have generalised there, but you're more likely to see a BGT cracker than a PB one. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547936/#p547936 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back @41 agree at first point, but you shouldn't do the same generalizing when you complain about exactly.that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547933/#p547933 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back @40, what's with the assumptions? Only 3 devs use PB and then you go about generalising like that? And I know 2 folks who use PB that pays for all their games, so you really should stop making baseless claims like that. That demographic who is more likely to crack and dadadadada are the folks who still use BGT. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547932/#p547932 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back We can't move on from old languages because the only thing people here want to program is audiogames. Learn from a sighted gaming tutorial that happens to talk about graphics: no. Learn to program something easier first: no. Learn some design patterns and things: no. Even learn all the basics of the programming language in question gets a no sometimes.Audiogames.net is a microcosm where the idea that game programming is somehow easy or even the first thing you should try for doesn't get enough countering to be disbelieved, and so when BGT happened and made this a tiny bit true everyone fell into it like a black hole. Since there aren't enough people pointing out that this idea that games is the first thing a new programmer should be doing is really flawed, and since there are also not enough examples of recent games not in BGT to back those of us up who try to point this out, the gravity is inescapable. Yet the result of this style of thinking are thousand-line if trees that can't be maintained at best, copy/pasted code because someone didn't understand functions and classes at worst, and the mess continues.I mean, forget BGT. Look at all the people who go buy PureBasic--the same people who don't have $15 for a game--just because some people here have used it and like it some. This community is really big on talismans and getting to the end result immediately (never mind if that's actually slower) and really small on infrastructural work, collaboration, and learning.I think Lucia is only a few devs at most, for instance. I might be wrong on that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547930/#p547930 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back Python code looks more English than BGT for me. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547917/#p547917 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back Regarding indentation, just because you can get away with flat code doesn't mean you should. Yes it's easier, but unless you plan to never collaborate on a project with basically most other people, you should indent your code or at least, learn how to do it when the time comes. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547907/#p547907 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back Another invalid arguement.Either way, am I the only one who thinks that python code actualy looks easier than bgt code?Sure, there's indentation but I find indentation easy. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547854/#p547854 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back Agreed with the most here. BGT is a dead language. Why can sighted people move on from dead languages but we can't seem to? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547848/#p547848 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back I'm not even going to bother continue arguing. Simter I suggest you should too. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547775/#p547775 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back @simtar, maybe, maybe not. I’ll simply ask you this. If the sited community can survive without BGT, how come we can't? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547771/#p547771 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back Guys, just let him do whatever he wants with this. He knows the consequences, lord knows they have been raised at least thirty times by now. It is his choice to continue using something when when clearly being shown the negative side to his persistence. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547767/#p547767 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back @30as i pointed out, adleast for me, bgt helped me. Not only for releasing my first stuff, but also for learning python, and since my english level at the time learning of bgt took me already 1/2 years. Also no it hasn't, people like sam tupy, mason armstrong or vgstorm would have never come out or adleast took much longer to come out if bgt wasn't existing.@31 sorry, anyaudio flashbacks. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547755/#p547755 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back English child, english! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547754/#p547754 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back The same arguments are beeing rehashed over and over again about an outdated coding language which is Dying a slow, slow, painful death. Bgt didn’t bring the audio game industry forward, it nearly held it at a certain point in time, allowing only so much advancement. In the long run, it has stunted the growth of audio games and their development. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547751/#p547751 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back The same arguments are beeing rehashed over and over again about an outdated coding language which is Dying a slow, slow, painful death. Mediately didn’t bring the audio game industry forward, it nearly held it at a certain point in time, allowing only so much advancement. In the long run, it has stunted the growth of audio games and their development. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547751/#p547751 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back @27 Nobody said they haven't read your whole post in your Windows 7 topic. The only post that comes close is Nizzas. It says it's not worth reading your post to the end because there is to much misinformation, but the post briefly addressed all of your points, so Nizza must have read it anyway. But I'm sorry for going off-topic. Let's return to the BGT topic. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547631/#p547631 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back @27 Nobody said they haven't read your whole post in your Windows 7 topic. The only post that comes close is Nizzas. It says it's not worth reading your post to the end because there is to much misinformation, but the post addressed all of your points, so Nizza must have read it anyway. But I'm sorry for going off-topic. Let's return to the BGT topic. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547631/#p547631 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back Hahaha spoiled for game quality. No. No I'm not. I would love to be spoiled for game quality. Being spoiled for game quality is why I'm writing Synthizer and have 5 projects in the pipeline behind it.Let's be real here. 99% of audiogames suck and we play them because it's audiogames or nothing. 99% of the offline games are bopit or a 1d sidescroller or something with no depth. And the only reason I cant say 99% of the online games are buggy is that we have something like 5 or 10 active online games that aren't a mud, so if you take one out you get less than 99% remaining. But being as I don't know which online game isn't buggy, it's not like that detracts from my point.Shades of Doom isn't actually that good. It's fun for what it is, and it was especially cool back when we had 3D audio and I was in high school. But I use it as an example because we don't even approach that quality most of the time. Even when we do, even when we get something really good like BK3, it's often clear that people don't understand game design--to use BK3 as an example, there's lots of puzzles that were very blatantly added because games are supposed to have puzzles, not because it's a good place to put a puzzle, or even a good sort of puzzle for that sort of game (see every guess the combination thing for instance).Audiogames have been a thing since the early 2000s, possibly longer. By the nature of what it is we won't have something equivalent to super modern sighted games, but computers have become something like a thousand times faster and more powerful, you don't have to code your audiogame in C/C++ or VB6 for speed anymore. We should have improved in the last 20 or so years. As far as I can tell we actually went backwards, instead. People used to sell their stuff and form companies, you'd have official support channels, games didn't crash and were mostly bug free, people didn't spin their wheels without getting better for years on end.So please. Spoil me. It would be a dream come true. Let's get some more FPSs. Or some action rpgs. How about some basic combo systems in our sidescrollers? Or maybe another SoundRTS?You know why most of our RPGs are turn based? it isn't because that's the most fun kind of RPG, its because that's what's easy to code. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547617/#p547617 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back @26 why shouldn't i repeat the repeat button if all the people do is repeating the same repetetive points that have been made so often, so use the repeat button as an argument? That was the best sentence lol. And also no, that is not at all what i am doing, it's more what the people do when they run out of arguments or want to force a discussion to go further in the hope that someone else will give the points. Then this happens but i don't need that, i know when i have lost.So argumentiert man nicht, schau dir mal das win7 thema von mier an, da geben die sogar zu meine posts nicht zuende zu lesen. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547610/#p547610 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back @26 why shouldn't i repeat the repeat button if all the people do is repeating the same repetetive points that have been made so often, so use the repeat button as an argument? That was the best sentence lol. And also no, that is not at all what i am doing, it's more what the people do when they run out of arguments or want to force a discussion to go further in the hope that someone else will give the points. Then this happens but i don't need that, i know when i have lost. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547610/#p547610 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back @25 Aren't you the one who repeats the whole repeat button crap every third post or so? I also find it quite ironic that you, of all people, tell other people they have no arguments. The only thing you do in discussions is searching posts for those three or four words in the middle you can cherry pick and then arguing against points that have never been made.I totally agree with Philip and Camlorn here. BGT has brought us some great games (Manamon etc), but it has also brought us simplistic game over simplistic game. Nobody wants to erase history here, but it's really time to move on to better things. Supported languages with lots and lots of online discussion. Languages who don't get flagged as viruses every time they are used. Exactly how Windows XP was great at its time, but should never be used today, it's really time to move on from BGT. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547544/#p547544 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back @25 Aren't you the one who repeats the whole repeat button crap every third post or so? I also find it quite ironic that you, of all people, tell other people they have no arguments. The only thing you do in discussions is searching posts for those three or four words in the middle you can cherry pick and then arguing against points that have never been made.I totally agree with Philip and Camlorn here. BGT has brought us some great games (Manamon etc), but it has also brought us simplistic game over simplistic game. Nobody wants to erase history here, but it's really time to move on to better things. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547544/#p547544 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back @25 Aren't you the one who repeats the whole repeat button crap every third post or so? I also find it quite ironic that you, of all people, tell other people they have no arguments. The only thing you do in discussions is searching posts for those three or four words in the middle you can cherry pick and then arguing against points that have never been made. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547544/#p547544 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back @20 and what message you wanted to bring us wiwth that post, i don't get it, it only sounds like you where trying to start a fire but not with me.@24 the only one who is missing arguments here is you. You are wining about developer basics and how spoiled you are when it comes to game quality, and the rest is babling and repeat button. In fact, if i really had to i could go without bgt, i have python. The only exception is networking while i try to get used to sockets and am playing with the code of americranians network wrapper. How ever first i like bgt more and second every one should have the choice what he wants to use. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547510/#p547510 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back @19Games are different than programming tools and libraries. You finish them and they're done. Being able to finish a programming tool and/or library is doable, but hard and something that rarely happens.If camlorn_audio had been finished to a stable point then it would still be up, but it wasn't. In the specific case of that, I had to say "This will randomly crash your app just because" one too many times. And fine, I'd say good on you for feeling like you can just ignore people when they e-mail you, except that even if we leave aside that that's kind of a dickish move, it's a great way to start chipping away at your reputation if no one can get in touch with you because you didn't like what they had to say (plus, you still have to read it, anyway).Also, I don't know how good Manaman is or isn't. Some people like it, it's not my kind of thing. I've not made the claim that we have zero BGT games either. All I said is that we should have at least one Shades of Doom quality game every couple years. We don't. The time between SoD-or-better game seems to be more like 3 or 4, and for the number of people trying to make games, that's not right. And I blame BGT for that, probably 50%, the rest being the lack of investment, people not working out things like reusable level editing, etc. that we could solve, if we had enough cohesion to take on projects as a community.@23I think Simter is just angry at this point, that we're taking their favorite toy away from them with good arguments, or something. Pretty sure me making the point you're making is what set them off. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547415/#p547415 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back If python wasn’t easy to learn, why is this mindset shared by a lot of the people on the Internet? I would go as far as saying that 99.9% of those folks don’t know what BGT is, and yet they still claim that learning python is relatively easy. Again I ask, why? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547413/#p547413 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
2020-06-30
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : Jaidon Of the Caribbean via Audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back @arvox, I'm sending you a PM. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547399/#p547399 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back Maybe it's petty of me to go in with that, but yes I agree lol. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547387/#p547387 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back Camlorn Wrote:"camlorn_audio was much less popular than BGT. One day you may have a project that's popular enough that you try to leave behind that keeps following you as far as your personal e-mail, until then don't judge."Simter having a popular project? That's a miracle. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547375/#p547375 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back @18 Oh, manamon2, bgt. And ya know what, even if it is impolite, that is the way to go. If people write you about an abandoned peace of software and you say requests will be ignored, then these people know 100 percent well that they won't go any where with their request. Look how many projects l-works has in their abandoned section, and they have never wined about to many requests. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547291/#p547291 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back It takes energy to keep telling people that you aren't maintaining a thing anymore, and camlorn_audio was much less popular than BGT. One day you may have a project that's popular enough that you try to leave behind that keeps following you as far as your personal e-mail, until then don't judge. Or maybe you're the kind of person who doesn't mind just being rude, who will actually ignore them instead of composing a polite reply to the effect of "I stopped maintaining this". But as usual when I make an unpopular point, people straw man me: I'm not saying "This, specifically, is why people take projects down", I'm giving an example of why leaving projects up isn't without cost to the people who wrote them. This community has lots of examples of someone abandoning something free and everyone getting outraged about it, even to the point of people trying to revive the game using stolen code, so it's not like that's the only reason someone might want to take something out from orbit.And to be frank, sighted people have no problem learning all these languages that this community likes to claim are harder. You can only blame the language or the community, and the language (any of the languages) has literally hundreds of thousands of people proving it's not the language every day.BGT went like this. "Yay! BGT!" followed by an army of newbie programmers, most of whom bounced off it, but it felt good because there was a .chm file, you didn't have to learn to use Google, and the tutorials were audiogame specific. Now people think it's special, because the people who still defend it never learned enough programming to understand why it's objectively bad. No one put the effort into making anything else mainstream easy, so obviously making something mainstream easy isn't possible and BGT is special. No one was willing to put in the effort to actually learn programming, just to hammer on the tiny, tiny subset in BGT's .chm, so now anyone arguing against it obviously doesn't have a clue about how important and mystical and powerful it is and why we all need to preserve it forever.But seriously, look around. People here make newbie-quality games for 3, 4, 5 years sometimes. There's also hundreds of thousands of devs proving that you shouldn't be making newbie quality games for that long. I'm not talking about people using Unity, I'm talking about lots and lots of people who grab HTML or Pygame or SDL in C++ even, and surpass what most audiogame devs can do in 6 months in their free time, plus also they did graphics which is actually a really hard thing to do. I've got a sighted friend who just went from not knowing how to program 8 months ago, to knowing two programming languages and writing an app for both iOS and Android that has to be able to work offline because it's going to be used in places like the middle of Africa for rather a lot of money.When you dive into a specialized tool using a specialized language used by no one else this is what happens, because all of the things that could enable you just aren't there. BGT isn't justifiable, objectively, and the evidence that it actually hurt the community and lowered the quality of audiogames is all around us. You exhaust what BGT will let you do, then you have to start over if you want to go further, and then either you grind out newbie games forever, be one of the like 5 people who stretch BGT way beyond what it was ever able to do through years of effort, or give up on programming.As I've said a few times now: we should have had one shades of doom quality game every couple years. We don't actually have even that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547268/#p547268 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back @16 o how bad, you get 1 email in 1 month or so and maybe some forum posts about an abandoned projects, o my gosh. How bad. And also no i doupt that, languages like py are harder to learn then bgt. In fact the only reason why so much people say that python is so easy because they have learned bgt before or another language and a lot or principes didn't change. I for an example would have never started or took much longer if i didn't found bgt while browsing in the agarchive because booredom. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547263/#p547263 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back Okay, two things.First, everyone forgets that we had plenty of audiogames before BGT. If BGT hadn't happened we'd have had plenty of audiogames without it. I would go so far as to say probably the same number of audiogames. The only people who think BGT is somehow adding a lot of value are very new programmers. Non-new programmers may use it, but usually with the understanding that it's super limited and that they could move on if they wanted, just they've got all this old code.Second, let's talk about camlorn_audio to understand why people might want their projects taken down. Once upon a time I did an audio library called camlorn_audio, for those who weren't around back then. But it wasn't ever finished, and it couldn't be made to work beyond a certain point. I gave up on it, left it around for a while because hey, it's an open source project on GitHub, no harm. No one can really use it because it was my first C++ project and I didn't understand some important fundamentals and OpenALSoft is kind of lame, I told everyone that, but why bother removing it? Surely no one is going to insist on trying to use the thing that crashes at the drop of a hat without fixing it first, which is so bad that even the author avoids it?Then I started getting e-mails because it kind of worked except not really, asking me for help using it. This never happened with Libaudioverse because Libaudioverse could never really be used with BGT or any of the other toy languages people like to adopt, but camlorn_audio got just the right amount of popularity that I think there's even a couple people still using it. But the problem is that even telling people "sorry, I'm not maintaining this" takes time and gets tiring. So after round 5 or 10 of "I specifically said this isn't usable" I did my best to eradicate it from the face of the earth, and I don't regret it.BGT has bugs. BGT has a bunch of programmers who would probably love to ask Philip things. As long as BGT is up, Philip is going to get some volume of people asking questions, or trying to convince him to maintain it. I don't know if him getting a bunch of requests like that is why he doesn't want it up, but this idea that just leaving projects out there is free to the author is very false. And it's especially false in a community like this, where you've got a bunch of new programmers who ignore "Don't use this" or "This is unmaintained" like there's no tomorrow, and who think that authors are obliged to never, ever move on just because you want to use it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547261/#p547261 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back @13 and yep we should really tell mason to take down sbyw, and tomp hunter, and btw what do you write programs in? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547256/#p547256 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back Umm? Did you not read his message in this very thread?philip_bennefall wrote:I would like to kindly request that the audiogames.net database not be updated with a permanent download link for BGT.It didn't say anything about erasing history. It didn't say that everyone who has a copy of BGT had better damn well delete it from their system effective immediately. He just asked that official sites like this one not host it.Also, I understand that big projects that are using it will continue to use it, but new ones should not be released on BGT. I don't get why this is such a difficult concept to understand. Why are we bitching about this. There's so much it doesn't do, and yet people continue to want more from an audio game? Ok then, stop using BGT and start using a mainstream language where there are libraries to let you do those things. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547257/#p547257 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back I mean, ***he*** wrote it... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547255/#p547255 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
2020-06-30
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : Jaidon Of the Caribbean via Audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back Again, tell VGstorm that. Tell Eban Sky that. Tell Pragma that.I'd like to also say that I'm currently trying to move away from BGT, and I agree its dead and devs should move away from it. But what I don't agree with is Phillip insisting that BGT be removed from all sights perminently. He's trying to errase apart of audiogame history. You may say that most BGT games were shit, but there are shitty video games made in python and those other languages. If Simter, or whoever wants to host it as abandonware that's their choice. Phillip shouldn't demand that people remove it, because at the end of the day, it isn't huring anyone. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547250/#p547250 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
2020-06-30
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : Jaidon Of the Caribbean via Audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back Again, tell VGstorm that. Tell Eban Sky that. Tell Pragma that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547250/#p547250 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back OK, we had a handful of good games on it, but the rest sucked. How is that progressing the audiogames scene? Even the good games had their limits. BGT had its time, that time is over now, so stop holding onto it like it's the last hope of salvation of all of humanity. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547244/#p547244 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back @9.lmfaolmfaolmfaolmfao URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547238/#p547238 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
2020-06-30
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : Jaidon Of the Caribbean via Audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back Tell that to Pragmma and Aaron Baker. Oh wait, Manamon and pretty much all of his games are paid! More reason to make him take down his games. Let's just remove all traces of this scripting language that helped push the audiogame industry further. Let's deny folks who just want to try out BGT, or BGT sources, because its no longer supported. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547230/#p547230 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
2020-06-30
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : manamon_player via Audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back at 6. If in audiogames db they say thats not supported, then what? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547124/#p547124 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
2020-06-30
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : philip_bennefall via Audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back Just wanted to chime in and say that post 6 is absolutely correct. I would like to kindly request that the audiogames.net database not be updated with a permanent download link for BGT.Thanks!Kind regards,Philip Bennefall URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547120/#p547120 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back The way I read that and judging by Philip's actions, it seems that what he means by that is that he doesn't mind it being posted on a Dropbox link in a forum topic somewhere, but he would prefer it if it wasn't linked to in a large public place, such as the agarchive or audiogames.net database, since that could imply that it's still supported somehow. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547118/#p547118 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back The way I read that and judging by Philip's actions, it seems that what he means by that is that he doesn't mind it being posted on a Dropbox link in a forum topic somewhere, but he would prefer it if it wasn't linked to in a large public place, such as the agarchive or audiogames.net database, since that could imply that it's still supported somehow. If this is the case, I honestly can't blame him, if I was him and I created a scripting language that made everyone scream CLONES in all caps every time it's mentioned, I'd want to distance myself from it, too. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547118/#p547118 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back Philip wrote:Hi all,After a lot of consideration, I have decided to remove a few things from blastbay.com that I no longer maintain and/or support. BGT has been officially removed, and so has the game Palace Punch-up. I know that a lot of you are still using BGT, and while I am flattered, I do think it is time to move on to other languages and frameworks in order to take audio games to the next level. I debated for a long time whether I should discontinue BGT or attempt to make a new release, but finally concluded that I am just not interested in it anymore and so I would be doing the community a disservice by keeping it around in its current state. I am fully aware that the installer will be hoested elsewhere, and I don't have a problem with that as long as everyone understands that the project is abandoned and unsupported.On the flip side, I have started releaseing some open source libraries for developers which can be found under "Developer Resources" in the menu. There's not a lot up there yet, but there's more coming for sure.This decision does not mean that I am shutting down Blastbay Studios. I do have plans for future releases, but I will not go into them at this time. This cleanup was necessary in preparation for what's coming, and I hope you can all understand and appreciate my position and the reasons that lead to this decision.Thank you!Yes, he said he knows people will host it but he has also been trying to get it removed from places, see the agarchive. I highly doubt this will make it into the database as again, the tool isn't even recommended by the author himself. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547074/#p547074 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back @2 was about to say the same, he said he wont host it and specifically said in the same topic that people can still host it if they want. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547057/#p547057 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back @2: nonsense, he sed that he don't hoste it, didint sed peaple are not allowed to hoste it URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547044/#p547044 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: bgt mirror is back
Re: bgt mirror is back Oh great. Hosting a tool that the author himself has asked not to be hosted. *sighs* URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/547034/#p547034 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
