Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application Hello there. Well, the site is usable, but a more intuitive client would be nice.Best regards, Haramir. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/552080/#p552080 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application Hi there,@1: I'm not sure right now, whether it was asked already, but what are you making the client in?A Linux version would be great as well you know. If you did the thing in Xamarin forms for example, it could be doable for all platforms at once. May be I would do it myself, but I really hate creating uis, so I most likely won't.But if the project was in something cross-platform, it would be nice.Best regardsRastislav URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/552065/#p552065 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
2020-07-13
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : blindndangerous via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application Absolutely. Good luck with this. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/552059/#p552059 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
2020-07-13
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Blind angel 444 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application Go for it! I’m all for this one and I support you 100%. Let your dreams come true. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551973/#p551973 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application @ironcross32, Any tips for effecient navigation then? Or do I just have to really spend time with the site and get used to it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551938/#p551938 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application Eh earlier this year ain't bad. This would have to be good to get me to use it, because I get along just fine on the website. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551918/#p551918 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application @ashleygrobler04, Haha, I'd almost call this topic necromancy, but nah, it doesn't look like it. Someone please prove me wrong? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551916/#p551916 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
2020-07-13
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : ashleygrobler04 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application Hi all, is this app still being worked on? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551908/#p551908 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application At this rate Voxmate will have its reddit client available before dystopia, and Voxmate isn't even available to the public yet. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/526169/#p526169 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application Don't worry about Dystopia, it will get a new update soon, but the developer seems to be affected by feature creep and keeps delaying the public release to add new stuff. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/526081/#p526081 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application hi.@devinpraterToday I agree 100% with what you said.Dispopia is great but I don't know when it will be released on the app store so an app like this for windows would be awesome! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/526031/#p526031 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application I'd love this! I'd use reddit a lot more than I do now, because I'm on the computer a lot, and can type more there too. And we don't know if Dystopia will ever even be released, lol. It's been in beta for like, quite a while, and time is ticking down for it to be renewed before it stops working due to no updates. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/525784/#p525784 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application When / if there will be a beta, it will most likely be an open beta.Note, that it could be subject to change, I haven't really thought about a beta or anything like it yet (since there's not really an alpha yet). URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/525652/#p525652 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application I Was JUST ASKING IF THERE WAS ANY WAY TO SIGN UP FOR WHEN THE BETA BECOMES AVAILABLE! IS THAT A CRIME!!! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/525649/#p525649 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application lol @46 it's kinda funny how people like these already jump on him and asking for betatesting when there is not even a product to test. He said that the alpha isn't ready yet. I'm sure he'll ask for beta testers if he's ready URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/525644/#p525644 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application Is there a beta we can sign up to test? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/525512/#p525512 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application I really like that idea! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/525500/#p525500 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application this looks like it's coming along great URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/525499/#p525499 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application @1, desktop is always better than a browser. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524975/#p524975 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application this is awesome! I'd love to be able to use reddit with a desktop app. Keep up the great work. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524958/#p524958 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application I'm not sure will you be able to make this, but I quite like the single-letter hotkeys on the website, like a / z for upvoting and downvoting, c for commenting, and so on. Could you have something like that while at the same time having all posts in the list? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524926/#p524926 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application Sure, as long as it isn't Electron. Lol. If it's going to behave like a webpage anyway there's no point. Might as well just use a browser. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524895/#p524895 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application Hi.@someone commNicklasMCHD, the ability to be notified when someone comments on your stuff would be great too. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524893/#p524893 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application Hi,this sounds awesome, I've been waiting for something like this for a long time now. Thanks for doing this! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524882/#p524882 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application Hi again, (Sorry for the dobbelpost).A little status for my reddit app prototype.Current features:* Possibility to authorize multiple reddit accounts (and remove them at a later stage).* retrieves subreddits that the account in question are subscribed to.* Show detailed account information, when the accounts username is clicked.* When post title (in subreddit) is clicked, it shows the post body along with comments and replies in a tree view.Features to come before first alpha:* Show upvote / downvote count and comment count without clicking on a post.* Be able to upvote, downvote and comment (and retract your vote)* Be able to delete your reply on a post.* Compose and publish a post on a subreddit.* Be able to unsubscribe from a subreddit.I know that there is a lot of features missing from the above, but I feel that these features are the most important, and other features will be coming a t alater stage. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524863/#p524863 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application Hi @brad. Thanks for the donation. Following reddits guidelines shouldn't be a problem URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524759/#p524759 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application Hi.@NicklasMCHD, i hope the donations help.Don't worry if you can't get the ap to work because of reddits guidelines or something, if that's the case; just enjoy the cash URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524745/#p524745 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application Hi.If there's a beta, I'll check it out.If you need my email it's bradleybrown2'live.co.ukI'll donate to help the project along. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524741/#p524741 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application @32 That sounds like great news, can't wait to try out the alpha. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524684/#p524684 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application Hi.Thanks for the surprising interest in this.I will start work on it today, and I should (most likely) have an alpha ready in the next couple of days.For those wanting to donate (at some point), that would be very welcome. That would allow me to dedicate more of my time to this project then I would otherwise be able to.If you want to donate at some point, you can go here (PayPal) or here (Accessiware).PS: Donations are totally optional, but very welcome.PPS: I know and understand, that most people don't want to donate to an app, that doesn't even exist yet. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524683/#p524683 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application Hi,I'm not a fan of the reddit site by any means, but it is at least usable. Still, I would love, love love love a desktop client. It would be so much quicker and less clunky than the website. I for one hope you continue this. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524675/#p524675 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application I'd honestly be fine with that even if I don't really use reddit much.Also, does the reddit API allow the chat feature, or is that web only? I know that many reddit apps don't have that feature for some reason. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524658/#p524658 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application Do it please! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524640/#p524640 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application Yes please. And +1 to the suggestion of keyboard shortcuts with an optionally invisible interface. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524607/#p524607 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application @26: Personally I'd prefer the upvote/downvote/what have you to be in a right click menu as that seems faster than tabbing back and forth, but the rest of your idea sounds more or less how I'd also set it up if I knew how. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524602/#p524602 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application Absolutely, man. I'm definitely not a fan of the web interface and do 97 percent of all browsing with the apollo app on my phone. The website is kind of weird and my screenreader focus seems to bounce around a lot and it is annoying.Having a desktop app would be great and pretty convenient for me, and I'd actually planned on writing one myself once I learned enough python. I sort of envisioned a TW Blue-like layout, a treeview with your home feed at the top and all the subs you're subscribed to underneath. I kind of imagined a list of posts which would have the usual save, upvote/downvote, reply, etc as things you could tab to and to view the post and its comments I thought about another treeview with expandable and collapsable levels, because sometimes I like reading top level comments only and hate having to sift through 500 replies. Those were just my notes I wrote down when I thought of doing this, but that would be my idea of a great desktop client... for windows, at least. Even if it looks nothing like that, I'd still take anything you got. Rock on, bro. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524592/#p524592 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application
Re: Gauging Interest in a reddit desktop (Windows & Mac) Application I'd try it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/524591/#p524591 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project For anyone wondering if this is still seeing work: it is. As of a very long weekend I have proven that what I want to do for HRTF works in theory, and I've written all the supporting pieces to actually go ahead and implement it in practice. There's nothing like a giant pile of math to work through, but I worked through it and the prototypes of the mathematically questionable parts seem to be functioning.I'm hoping that there'll be an HRTF demo in a week or two, but work is going into Q2 this week and I'm getting handed at least one big project right away, so no promises. A C API and such will take longer. At the moment this is a bunch of library-private classes that I'm throwing together on an as-needed basis to write test programs.It turned out that I still had my 3D audio benchmark against OpenALSoft. After quite a bit of work I was able to get that running: without doing anything but HRTF (i.e. no streaming etc) my computer gets 1600 sources in it's most basic HRTF configuration. It's less than that if you configure the hRTF to sound better than the default. But in terms of having a target number to play the speed game with (and keeping in mind that you'd need to be running on my tower for meaningful comparison) we have one now.Also I think that I'll be able to write a really good buffer/sound cache in C that preloads assets for you; I ended up writing a ton of concurrency stuff for other reasons. And I figured out why Libaudioverse couldn't ever get Windows to give Libaudioverse amazingly high priority for the audio threads as well. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/516516/#p516516 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @67There is overhead because you need to get the bytes out of a Synthizer buffer and into the Numpy array. Then you need to get the bytes out of the output array and back into a synthizer buffer.I have used these tools significantly. I've run Numba, I've run Theano, I've run Tensorflow. Numpy/scipy is what I reach for when I need to do math, and is what is powering the HRTF conversion scripts Synthizer itself needs. My pipe dream plan to build a speech synthesizer relies on this stuff as well.It might be possible to use the memoryview interfaces to do the copy without round tripping into Python but you'd still have to hold the GIL for that and holding the GIL is a bad idea for audio effects. Plus the copy still happens. There is one possibility here where you write your effect in cython with nogil and Synthizer provides the missing inter-thread synchronization piece, but even if this starts working you can't just go grab the GIL and start playing with Numpy and have things be amazing because your main game threads can just decide to hold onto it and not let go for a bit.But let's say that none of that is a problem. You've got it in Numpy via some magic. The GIL is gone, somehow, which the Python people have been trying and failing to do for literally 10 years now. But in the case of this hypothetical example. You still have two problems.First is that Numpy does have overhead with small arrays, since every vectorized operation has to be arranged for by Python. Numpy asymptotically approaches C with large arrays, but for 256 samples or so it certainly doesn't. It'll be faster than Python, but saying it's zero overhead is incorrect by far. It's constant overhead, but that means that if the arrays are small the constant overhead can sure count for a lot. Rule 1 of algorithmic complexity and constant overhead and things like that is that you only get to sweep them under the rug if the problem size is large enough to hide it.Second is that audio effects can't be vectorized. Numpy vectorizes two audio operations of interest: the FIR filter and the IIR filter. These equate to a lowpass/highpass/bandpass plugin, nothing more. You can perhaps vectorize ringmod if you're sufficiently clever. But that's it. Most audio effects are recursive, for example echoes, where you need to compute every output sample one at a time so you can feed it back into the beginning. For those that aren't, say a simple delay line, the least efficient way to do it is the obvious vectorized way: what you have to do instead is compute one sample at a time and use modulus to make indices wrap around in the buffer. That can be vectorized a little bit if and only if the delay is always longer than the number of samples the effect needs to compute at once, but that's not usually the case.And what that means is that your nice numpy operations just became read one value from the numpy array, do math in pure Python, write one value to the numpy array. And at that point it's as much overhead as lists save that it's easier to copy into and out of numpy arrays from the bindings. But at that point why bother doing that? You can get zero copy if you just use the buffers directly, which is what the bindings will expose assuming that I'm right about being able to solve this in some fashion via cython nogil and Synthizer exposing some atomic lockfree operations.When you use something like Numpy for machine learning, even on the CPU, there is overhead. But 10-20 MS of overhead when the problem you're running takes 10-20 seconds per iteration is nothing. On my machine currently, Synthizer's block size is 256 samples at a sampling rate of 44100, which is 5 MS per block. You'll lose 1-2 MS of this to the GIL and 0.5 to 1 MS of this to getting data into and out of Numpy. That leaves you 2 MS to play with. If you compute slower than 2 MS on more than half the blocks, eventually Synthizer runs out of data to feed to the sound card. If you do it on less than half the blocks, Synthizer can still run out of data if you miss 4 or 5 in a row, which will probably kick an as-yet-to-be-written latency increasing algorithm into gear, thus making the audio of your game progressively higher latency.Now let's bring the GIL back in. You've vectorized in Numpy, but every round trip to Python is going to release/acquire the GIL. Let's say that you do that 5 times per effect. The way Python works is that other threads running pure Python bytecode will only release the GIL after running a specific number of bytecodes (but I believe on Python 3 this got switched to a timer--I'm not going to go read C sourcecode for the sake of this post) so figure on 0.1 to 0.25 MS per GIL operation if the main game thread is trying to acquire it. And there goes your computation window without you even doing any math.And we haven't even talked about how if you accidentally allocate objects (which Python makes easy
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @65 it depends on its size.a simple array has no performance overhead.but for something like neural networks (which my experience says you will need to allocate that on GPU which in turn requires cuda and another framework other than numpy. numpy by itself doesn't support gpu). URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/514252/#p514252 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project Really interested here, thanks for your work¡ URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/514196/#p514196 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @63Wave files of different sample rates sounds funny because that's a test which doesn't currently use the resampler because (as of what's on GitHub at any rate) there is no resampler to be used.wav_test will shortly be rewritten to not use miniaudio directly.@64Yeah, but the thing is that with respect to what you actually need to write effects for, there shouldn't be anything for the most part.And the neural network stuff trades off latency for performance wherever possible, which means none of that tooling is really applicable. And yes I do include Numpy in that--Numpy is great if what you have is a Numpy array, but the overhead of creating and destroying them is terrible. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/512288/#p512288 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @59, in python I didn't write audio effects so I can't comment on it anymore (just gave my idea).what I do with audio now is to process and feed it to neural networks for data science purposes (which is beyond the scope of this library at least).but for coding games I've gave this idea of writing effects in python (which SoLoud doesn't support in it's Filter interface). URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/512283/#p512283 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project Thanks. I actually tried and CFLAGS=-flto, LDFLAGS=-flto -fuse-ld=lld didn't work. I got some kind of undefined references.I figured as much about the dead code. It actually sounded pretty funny when I played a wave file with a lower samplerate. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/512282/#p512282 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project Thanks. I actually tried and CFLAGS=-flto, LDFLAGS=-flto -fuse-ld=lld didn't work. I got some kind of undefined references. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/512282/#p512282 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project Ok, looking further, yes those options are helpful now. But they won't be for the most part when this is done. At the moment there's dead code because most code is in progress. There might be a bit of dead code from i.e. WDL in the end but I'm not overly concerned. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/512276/#p512276 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @60CMake will pick up architecture from the VS command prompt you launch it from. Install VS 2019, install Clang 9, install the most recent CMake, then you can build for 32 bit from the native tools command prompt for 32 bit, I believe. It's not as simple as changing flags, you do in fact have to change the toolchain (sort of--it's complicated. But the previous procedure should work).You can probably get smaller binaries just by changing CMAKE_BUILD_TYPE to release in CMakeCache.txt. On the whole the size of that executable doesn't matter and the final dll will be on the order of megabytes.I had to look up those flags. They're not useful flags. The useful flag is probably -flto or some variant thereof.Please don't send patches for CMake configuration changes: I will probably not merge them at this stage, as that's a moving target. Also if you don't know CMake well, it's easy to get it wrong in ways that seem right.The idiomatic way to do this is to edit CMakeCache.txt and rebuild. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/512272/#p512272 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project A bit off-topic, but what Cmake flags should I use to compile this for 32-bit or should I just install a 32-bit LLVM toolchain and use that? Also, the CFLAGS "-ffunction-sections -fdata-sections" reduced wav_test.exe from 596KB to <250KB, is it OK to add these to the default flags? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/512241/#p512241 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @58Google Python global interpreter lock. You can't execute audio callbacks reliably on background threads in Python because Python has an internal mutex that prevents this. Cython has a nogil utility but then stops short of giving you atomics, so even if the gil weren't a problem you couldn't communicate with the callback in a lockfree fashion.The impact of the GIL is that even if multiple effects are running on different threads, only one of them can be inside Python at once.Also, the overhead of getting very small blocks of audio data into and out of Numpy for processing is massive.And, you have no real control over when Python allocates.If we had just one of these concerns it could be dealt with but we have all of them, so it can't.People think about audio programming wrong. You have to be fast not because you're using all the resources but because you have to wait until the last instant for low latency purposes. I am already using a semaphore, which has to call into the kernel, which usually means a high chance of thread preemption, and I hate it. Here's hoping that I only need one.But finally I take it you've never programmed an audio effect before. Numpy doesn't help you. Delay lines can't be vectorized. if you want to do a convolution or filter you can just feed the impulse to something else, no need to implement it yourself. If you want to do a feedback delay network or something that's already slow even in C.As I said already the callback will exist, because in non-Python scenarios it makes sense to, but you're not going to get what you want from it.You can do custom sources in Python because you can compute the data way ahead of time. Or at least way ahead of time in audio land, which is 200ms or so. SO Synthizer can handle that internally. But audio effect callbacks can't be done ahead of time and must run only once the current blocks of audio are waiting to go out to the sound card. Practically speaking this means you have 1 or 2 ms at most start to finish.What kind of effect do you want to implement that Synthizer isn't going to provide already? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/511408/#p511408 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @55 I said that because it is hard to implement virtual functions in cython ((you should roll a proxy class that calls a python function from within that virtual function)regarding lua or eel, those are good languages, but why we have a language like python which can process effects easily (via numpy or other means), why we should use those?I'm not discoraging it's use (especially eel was designed for effect processing in mind).regarding the audio callback, that can be exicuted on it's own thread without blocking anything else. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/511395/#p511395 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @56SDL2 isn't an audio backend or even particularly low latency, and even if added, all the other backends have to be in there anyway. You don't gain anything from it. It won't make anything smaller or faster. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/511393/#p511393 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project Thanks for the update!Would you consider adding SDL2 as an optional audio back-end?It seems a waste to have an extra audio back-end shipping with some or most games and not use it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/511384/#p511384 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @54I know. It's getting a C API, eventually. That's coming. Virtual functions are fine internally as long as they're not exposed to the user, and the API outside of the internals is Going to be C so that's not a concern for anyone doing bindings. Besides, I'm probably going to end up writing/maintaining the cython bindings myself anyway.You probably won't be implementing custom effects in Cython. You'll probably be implementing custom effects in Lua 5.1 or EEL2. While there are lots of ways to allow Python to provide custom sources, Python's GIL prevents any real concurrency and puts unpredictable kernel calls in places we don't want unpredictable kernel calls if you try to use it for effects. Why is complicated, but the short version is that you don't want to allow the Python program to block the audio thread from the time you allocate space in the ringbuffer to the time you allow the ringbuffer to proceed forward, and effects have to run in that time window by the nature of effects.There'll probably be custom effect C callbacks, but using them with Cython will probably not get you what you want, in other words.Fortunately Lua 5.1 (via LuaJIT--no longer maintained, thus the lack of Lua 5.3) is actually about as fast as C, and EEL2 is the language from Reaper's custom effects which happens to be open source and meets all the requirements for audio programming, so there are not super inconvenient ways to get this. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/511086/#p511086 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project hi,I have 2 suggestions:1. please, please don't use c++ virtual functions (that has a lot of headake when we want to implement it in cython).2. if you want to make a c api, for implementing filters, using callbacks is the best bet. the callback can do it''s job in another thread and it is possible for others to roll their own filter stuff (like different echolisers or other types of reverb like freeverb etc).and it's easier to code it in cython and write other functions for it in cython and more in python itself.thanks URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/511016/#p511016 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project For those wondering if this is dead: it's not. As of now it's the world's lamest media player. Once this is further along there'll be a dedicated thread for it. No promises as to when that'll be, but the first hard cliff is getting multi-format support and the custom protocol stuff working--to have things like HTTP or microphone streaming or who knows what else on the table, there's rather a lot that goes in now.I have a code line counter: getting this far is 700 lines of my own code, excluding blanks and comments. Does wav at the moment, but pluggable backends exist so that it can be extended with any other format (perhaps proprietary ones even). Ogg, Mp3, and Flac are queued but not the immediate priority--let's prove the HRTF first. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/510991/#p510991 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @51It very much depends on what you want to do.If you're talking about these hypothetical buffer functions being used to compute the entire thing ahead of time, Sapi is quite heavyweight and you'll add as much latency as you were trying to get rid of doing it that way. And amusingly (or not so amusingly) that latency will depend on the length of the string as well.The only way to do streaming even remotely efficiently is to either have the library call a callback you provide asking you for samples immediately, or for the library to provide a function that blocks until more samples are required. NVDA does the latter. It is not feasible to share the thread of your main game loop for this if you want low latency; even with a polling interface, it's not possible to be accurate enough to prevent audio artifacts if you're interleaved with game code and trying to share with game timers.It's easy enough to provide interfaces for realtime streaming, but it's quite hard, probably impossible, to make them as easy to use as you want them to be. The problem isn't even exactly performance, it's getting several things to align so that you can get the samples into the right place at the right time without glitching.But if the right interfaces exist you can in theory even do it from Python, only problem there being the global interpreter lock which can sometimes get in the way, but cython might let you avoid even that and you can embed C code directly with CFFI anyway if you want, so there's ways. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/506269/#p506269 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project I was thinking call a function which returns a pointer to a raw audio buffer.Then there are some functions I can call with that buffer.Clear empties the buffer, and Append adds the char* and its length to the buffer.I thought that Synthizer would take audio data from the buffer, if there is any, and mix it in using a thread.EDIT: BTW, your miniaudio_example.cpp file didn't compile on my end until I added the line:#define MINIAUDIO_IMPLEMENTATIONTo the beginning. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/506257/#p506257 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project I was thinking call a function which returns a pointer to a raw audio buffer.Then there are some functions I can call with that buffer.Clear empties the buffer, and Append adds the char* and its length to the buffer.I thought that Synthizer would take audio data from the buffer, if there is any, and mix it in using a thread. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/506257/#p506257 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
2020-03-03
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : manamon_player via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project please make a great 3d soundpool for bgt to work with 2 or 1 or 512 rams too URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/506069/#p506069 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
2020-03-03
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : manamon_player via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project please make a great 3d soundpool for bgt to work or 2 or 1 or 512 rams too URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/506069/#p506069 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project Raw audio samples is possible one way or the other, yeah. That specific feature was a goes without saying sort of thing, in my book. It might be the one thing that's not doable from BGT however. It depends on if you're looking to just send everything at once then close, or if you want to do more. It's hard in the extreme to send samples interactively without either a thread or a function pointer or both.That said, the protocol thing is a protocol (i.e. file), a path (i.e. the protocol gets a string and can do whatever) and a set of options. In theory, this could eventually be extended sufficiently to allow you to hook weirder things like sapi in, though today I'm coding it assuming that protocols are opaque streams of bytes. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/506005/#p506005 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project Or, you could also add a way to send raw audio samples, let's say 16 bit, stereo, 44100. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/505937/#p505937 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Just noticed I dropped the file line from the above post: the comments about URL stuff were supposed to go with something along the lines of syz_loadAsset("file", "path", "");.@46Maybe. Problem is that doing that requires also forwarding to all the other methods that those interfaces provide, and they're daunting.I might tackle speech at some point but if I do, I'm going to do it via reimplementing one of the screen reader speech libs under the unlicense.Regardless it's not really my priority.
URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/505926/#p505926
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Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project Could you maybe add a way to output windows SAPI through Synthizer so that silence can be trimmed from the beginning?This looks really, really cool! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/505922/#p505922 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Multiple years, hah, no. I already almost have the world's most underwhelming media player. There may be something to show for it by this time next week. Just depends how much free time I get. Once the audio decoding infrastructure is finished, things should move at a pretty decent pace for a bit. I've just not bothered posting progress here because it's beyond technical. But to provide the quick list:1. Finish the media decoding infrastructure to a basic level. That's in progress now.2. Code a C++ source/HRTF panner bank architecture. I have a chunk of this in Python outside the repo waiting to be ported, some in Libaudioverse where I'm the sole copyright holder, and some in the repo already.3. Write some really annoying code generators and implement a command/response architecture that I could go on about at length, the short version being that I want to be able to let game code not have to wait on locks *and* batch updates so that you don't hear the audio equivalent of tearing.At 3 you can use it in something because there'll be a C++ API. I'd call that an alpha, because it's where we find out if miniaudio is amazing or amazingly sucky. I'm hoping for amazing, but if it's amazingly sucky then we might have a 3.5 where I have to write an audio backend which I really really don't want to have to do. But then the fun starts (in rough priority order):4. Implement a transparent buffer caching system. We can hold audio assets in memory in an encoded format and we can take your sounds directory and load it in the background so that it's ready for you when you need it.5. Reverb. Probably a feedback delay network. I expect several iterations of this, in order to build up to reverb zones and things like that but want this in the hands of people early.6. Make sure that things are in order enough to make the protocol system public--that is, there's already the beginnings of a piece that lets you plug in your own asset pack format for encryption or go to the internet or etc which is getting used internally.7. Implement effects chains, per source and global (i.e. chorus, etc).8. Investigate bringing EEL2 in for custom effects. For the Reaper people, it turns out that the language you do JSFX in is open source, so anyone who knows that can write effects in theory.8.5. Also maybe investigate bringing Lua in via LuaJIT.9. Maybe work on raycasting to compute reverb.And then after that it's based off demand or my own usage or what have you. For some idea as to the C API I have in mind:syz_handle audio, source;
// could be http, my-magic-format, whatever.
syz_createGenerator(, "file", "my_file.ogg", "");
syz_createSource();
// TBD. Also the default.
// Third parameter is options, key1=value1 key2=value2. Almost never used.
// In future/from a higher level language you can parse urls to this.
syz_sets(source, "panning_strategy", "hrtf");
syz_setf3(source, "position", 5, 5, 0);
syz_addGenerator(source, file);
syz_command(file, "play");The point being that anyone wanting to use this just has to bind seti/setf/setf3/sets, command, and then the general purpose library initialization stuff and the few things that sadly absolutely must be special cases. No enums or anything like that. Do one magic 20 line Python class and you're done, you can set all the properties for today and tomorrow as well. Obviously I'm omitting error handling for the sake of expediency.If you're wondering "but strings are slow": yes, they can be. Probably not too slow for this application. But through magic pointer fuckery, anyone who cares will be able to go through syz_magicFastString("foo") and get a magic value that is magic that they can magically use instead to be faster. Because it's magic, in case you didn't get the point. I probably won't actually name the function that.
URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/505776/#p505776
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Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @camlornNice to see that it's getting somewhere even though it is slow progress.I've stared in on gh and as @kianoosh said in #43 we (well me atm) would love to include in in lucia if everything goes as planned (and it doesn't take multiple years to complete)Would love to help out, but have very limited knowledge with C/C++ programming.I wish you the best of luck URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/505772/#p505772 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project This is awesome. I was going to strongly suggest you to do it and thank you a lot in the end of my post, but now I just thank you a lot as you have started working on this project. I'm very confident that we're going to use it on our upcoming projects, if it's going to be as easy to use and having low latency as you said. Plus, since the licencing complies with lucia we're gonna include it in lucia, too, if its performance doesn't bring up weird issues like sound_lib, which I'm very confident that it's gonna be all right too.Keep it up. We're patiently waiting for the great work of yours. Good luck. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/504784/#p504784 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project This is possibly the fastest abandonment assumption I've ever seen. At least wait a month since the last post by the author LOL. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/504385/#p504385 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project I started it last weekend (see above for the repo link) and am doing a 9-to-5 programming job Monday through Friday. Patience is required. This isn't going to happen in a few days. I know what needs to happen and there is a plan, but I only have weekends and some weeknights to work on it. Keep in mind I spend all of every day Monday through Friday programming; it's not like I get off work with tons of creative energy, going "hey, I know, let's do what I just got done doing for 8 hours". URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/504375/#p504375 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @camlorn: any news regarding this project, or was it abandoned or anything? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/504355/#p504355 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project Again @camlorn, just let me know if you want help with Mac related stuff. Building, testing, etc. I have Mac and don't seem to find VoiceOver such a dumpster fire or hate it with the burning intensity of a thousand suns as you say. Its by no means perfect and I can think of at least about 3 or 4 things off the top of my head that if I could I'd like to ad or change about VoiceOver, but it gets the job done. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503968/#p503968 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @37Probably, but making sure that's the case isn't my priority. If Mingw has Clang, or it can consume the output from clang-cl, or it can consume the output from Microsoft's linker, then it will probably always be possible one way or the other. But the dll is more valuable by far, so I won't actively be working to preserve this capability (but I won't actively be working to get rid of it either). URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503907/#p503907 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project Hi,Will I be able to statically link this using the Mingw64 GCC compiler?I'd rather not lug around an extra DLL in every project if I could avoid it.Thanks. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503853/#p503853 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project I was right about the performance. Naive cross-platform SIMD implementation of convolution seems to be giving a theoretical max between 1000 and 6000 HRTF sources on my machine. That will be less in practice because there's more than just convolution in an HRTF and some crossfading and etc, the list goes on.By comparison, Libaudioverse needed several cores to even get close to 1000.Eventually I'll probably make a Synthizer thread. But so far so good. Probably no audio output for a couple weeks however. There's a lot of groundwork yet. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503665/#p503665 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @camlorn, That is a very good idea. If I had a dll that could bring 3d sound to bgt, I could make almost any game I want. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503624/#p503624 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project The math will be portable, which is part of why I chose Clang. Not the only reason; Clang generally tends to be ahead of everyone else for the latest C++ features. In theory the audio backend is also portable. Some of the I/O stuff may not be.It isn't that porting this to Linux or Mac is particularly hard, it's that I don't have those systems or the motivation and also hate Voiceover with the burning intensity of a thousand suns. But actually doing at least Mac should be pretty easy, though Linux with Alsa was a really big challenge for Libaudioverse because it's barely documented and buggy,. Hopefully miniaudio just handles Alsa, however. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503612/#p503612 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project I would be happy to help any way I can to implement MacOS support. I Know python, My comp sci degree we learned c++, and I have a math degree. I am quick at picking up formulas and algorithms. Let me know how I can help. A dm on twitter is probably the best way to contact me. see my signature. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503421/#p503421 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
2020-02-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : philip_bennefall via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project There's dr_wav, dr_mp3 and dr_flac from the same author as miniaudio.https://github.com/mackron/dr_libs/Kind regards,Philip Bennefall URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503341/#p503341 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project Repository is here: https://github.com/camlorn/synthizerI'm using the unlicense. Hopefully this will work out without having to drag in things that require attribution; I know of at least public domain MP3 and Ogg libraries. If I can find wav and flac we appear to be good. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503281/#p503281 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
2020-02-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : philip_bennefall via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project Thanks for that! I'll check it out next time I dive back into the HRTF stuff; right now I'm a bit swamped with other things and my existing implementation works well enough for my needs at the moment. Though as I say, I need to profile it properly before I consider releasing it. Though honestly if you put your stuff out under a liberal non-binary attribution license, I'll give it a spin and replace mine if yours is better.Kind regards,Philip Bennefall URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503224/#p503224 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
2020-02-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : philip_bennefall via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project Thanks for that! I'll check it out next time I dive back into the HRTF stuff; right now I'm a bit swamped with other things and my existing implementation works well enough for my needs at the moment. Though as I say, I need to profile it properly before I consider releasing it. Though honestly, if you put your stuff out under a liberal license (other than Apache or MIT etc), I'll give it a spin and replace mine if yours is better.Kind regards,Philip Bennefall URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503224/#p503224 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project Also do note that if you use Python for your data processing, you can bring in jinja2 and pretty trivially write Python list of floats and/or Numpy array to C array variable generators. I think the Libaudioverse code has one somewhere, but I don't have it handy. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503221/#p503221 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @27The format can be read by Numpy, I'm almost sure. The tricky thing is that I think they have some sort of weird elevation scheme, so getting from 360 degree azimuth to what they have is weird, or something like that?Have a gist: https://gist.github.com/camlorn/83a0666 … dd5412be72I took the two files of my HRTF Python thing, threw them back to back with comments, search for main.py to skip the first one. That equalizes the MIT dataset if you extract it in the hardcoded path. It's not complete but it has the minimum phase formulas, passable equalization code (could be better, but passable), the bilinear interpolation formulas, and the Woodworth ITD formula for computing the interaural time difference. It's not really commented but the prints give some idea what each step is. Your mileage may vary depending on how much of the underlying math you know, but it's at least something until such time as I have the time to put together a blog post.If you separate the files and install numpy, scipy, and pyo, it should be runnable. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503220/#p503220 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
2020-02-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : philip_bennefall via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @26 Yeah, I ended up equalizing by hand. It took hours, and it hurt. A lot. The format took some figuring out. I ended up converting it to tables in C, and it worked well even though the resulting file is a couple of megabytes.Kind regards,Philip Bennefall URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503217/#p503217 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @19Along those lines, yes.@21You have to equalize the MIT dataset unless you use the diffuse field equalized ones they provided, and their equalization isn't very good. The most basic way is to take the average of the power spectrum--the magnitude response squared--and divide out by that, but that's what they did and it's meh. One of the things I don't like about the MIT dataset is that they're kinda blase about their methodology. Good to know Cipic is worthwhile; I've considered going that route but their data is kinda in a weird format and undocumented. I may have a question for you regarding their coordinate system at some point; their papers are completely inaccessible.@22/23It wouldn't be graph based, no. I'm thinking parallel(synth generators)->source->(serial number of effects)->(split to HRTF panner bank/global effects). This gives at least a factor of 2 increased performance on top of Libaudioverse, enough that fiddling with multithreading work schedulers shouldn't be necessary, possibly much more than a factor of 2 if SIMD counts for as much as I think. That's on top of the factor of 2 or 3 from shortening/preprocessing the impulse responses. You can get much higher performance with less than half the code--MVP of this thing is probably 2000 lines at most, Libaudioverse is around 15k and unfinished.SteamAudio might be good. I think they're Ambisonics though. A lot of the Ambisonics stuff turns into simulating 12-16 speakers, not full HRTF. Full HRTF from ambisonics would be the holy grail, but no one has done that and talked about how to do it at the same time.Issue with WebAudio is that if you want to change how fast the footstep is playing, you need to change the length of that silence. Other issue with WebAudio is that to do anything interesting with custom nodes, you have to make 2 or 3 copies of large audio assets. By the time I was copying out of a buffer into an ArrayBuffer, truncating/extending it,then converting it back to a buffer I was sad inside, and that stops before we talk about the part where I want to be able to yank audio out of the middle of assets so that you don't have to open reaper every time you want to grab a snippet from some long audio file you got out of freesound.org or whatever. Also any decent custom effects for WebAudio have to be Rust/C++ and compiled to Webasm, and keep in mind that these sorts of copy the array manipulations have to happen at least in part on the UI thread.That's not to say it doesn't beat BGT/Pygame/Bass/etc, because it does. It just doesn't go as far as I want it to.@24I've given thought to surround sound, but surround sound is both easy from the aspect of there being tons and tons of things that'll work for it, and hard from my perspective in that I don't have a home theater or the space for one.So: watch this space? I've given thought to how to abstract this so that the panner is swappable, but it's in such an early stage that I have no idea what any of that looks like yet. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503209/#p503209 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @19Along those lines, yes.@21You have to equalize the MIT dataset unless you use the diffuse field equalized ones they provided, and their equalization isn't very good. The most basic way is to take the average of the power spectrum--the magnitude response squared--and divide out by that, but that's what they did and it's meh. One of the things I don't like about the MIT dataset is that they're kinda blase about their methodology. Good to know Cipic is worthwhile; I've considered going that route but their data is kinda in a weird format and undocumented. I may have a question for you regarding their coordinate system at some point; their papers are completely inaccessible.@22/23It wouldn't be graph based, no. I'm thinking parallel(synth generators)->source->(serial number of effects)->(split to HRTF panner bank/global effects). This gives at least a factor of 2 increased performance on top of Libaudioverse, enough that fiddling with multithreading work schedulers shouldn't be necessary, possibly much more than a factor of 2 if SIMD counts for as much as I think. That's on top of the factor of 2 or 3 from shortening/preprocessing the impulse responses. You can get much higher performance with less than half the code--MVP of this thing is probably 2000 lines at most, Libaudioverse is around 15k and unfinished.SteamAudio might be good. I think they're Ambisonics though. A lot of the Ambisonics stuff turns into simulating 12-16 speakers, not full HRTF. Full HRTF from ambisonics would be the holy grail, but no one has done that and talked about how to do it at the same time.Issue with WebAudio is that if you want to change how fast the footstep is playing, you need to change the length of that silence. Other issue with WebAudio is that to do anything interesting with custom nodes, you have to make 2 or 3 copies of large audio assets. By the time I was copying out of a buffer into an ArrayBuffer, truncating/extending it,then converting it back to a buffer I was sad inside, and that stops before we talk about the part where I want to be able to yank audio out of the middle of assets so that you don't have to open reaper every time you want to grab a snippet from some long audio file you got out of freesound.org or whatever. Also any decent custom effects for WebAudio have to be Rust/C++ and compiled to Webasm, and keep in mind that these sorts of copy the array manipulations have to happen at least in part on the UI thread.That's not to say it doesn't beat BGT, because it does. It just doesn't go as far as I want it to.@24I've given thought to surround sound, but surround sound is both easy from the aspect of there being tons and tons of things that'll work for it, and hard from my perspective in that I don't have a home theater or the space for one.So: watch this space? I've given thought to how to abstract this so that the panner is swappable, but it's in such an early stage that I have no idea what any of that looks like yet. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503209/#p503209 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project Please! Consider making this.I can wrap it in Cython for Python and Go. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503203/#p503203 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project I've been looking for an audio library for my Godot accessibility plugin. I'm kind of ignorant about these things. Would this only be HRTF, or would it work well for 5.1/7.1 systems? Godot's audio story is kind of dumb right now. 2-D audio is hard-centered on screen center, meaning you can't do a 2-D game with surround audio out of the box. I hack around that by creating an invisible 3-D viewport, a non-rendering camera, then mirroring all 2-D nodes into the 3-D soundscape. But even that leaves something to be desired, and there is some interest in redoing Godot's audio subsystem for 4.0.HRTF is something I definitely want, even if only for my Godot games. But I'd also like to support non-headphone 5.1/7.1 use as well. If you can pull that off, I'd make an effort at creating a GDNative module for it. Whether or not I could get it into Godot 4 is another story. Godot is MIT, which I assume is compatible with the Apache license. Another challenge is that I'm actually going for pretty substantial cross-platform support, with builds of my game currently running under Linux, Windows, Web Assembly, and Android. I know that's a tall order, but it's what my current engine empowers me to do right now, even with its meh implementation. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503200/#p503200 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project The other 2 3d audio libraries that I know of that haven't been mentioned here yet is Steam Audio and the Oculus Audio SDK. They are only available as binaries, so you wouldn't be able to contribute improvements to it, but can use them in commercial projects. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503195/#p503195 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @camlorn welcome back!1. You talked about this project being game specific as compared to libaudioverse, which was basically implementing WebAudio so would be suitable for anything that needed audio synthesis. How does that translate to the features that won't be avilable in this library vs Libaudioverse? Will its API also be graph based?2. Regarding the WebAudio issues that you mentioned, I'm wondering why you couldn't insert the silence in the BufferNode before adding it to the graph? I'm probably overlooking something obvious here. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503194/#p503194 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
2020-02-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : philip_bennefall via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @16:I use the public domain CIPIC HRTF database found at https://www.ece.ucdavis.edu/cipic/spati … hrtf-data/I use the special kemar dataset, which has 5 degree intervals. I snap between them, with a very brief crossfade. This obviously causes a spike which I would like to avoid, but have not yet found a way. However, the transitions are quite smooth and I am personally happy with the result. I had to do a lot of post processing though in order to even out some of the crazy peaks in the frequency spectrum, and to put the low-end back. The MIT dataset suffers from similar peaks and lack of bass, and the MIT license is ambiguous regarding binary attribution so I avoided it.Kind regards,Philip BennefallP.S. I use miniaudio in my framework and it works wonders. And the author is a great guy, too. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503193/#p503193 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project Hi Camlorn, great idea! I think our community really needs a good 3D sound library. So far, in my memory, there is no audio game that truly manages the sound in 3D completely. I'll explain. So far the games use left and right panning to indicate the position of the object. But they do not manage the position of the object if it is in front of or behind the player. To overcome this they often use the pitch. Would the library you intend to develop go in the direction I think, that is to say actually give the sensation that the object is in front of the player, or in the back?To understand each other, for good sound management in 3d, listen to this video. So far no audio game has ever managed to manage 3D sound in such a realistic way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IXm6SuUigIThanks and good job! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503191/#p503191 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @17The thing about the FSF and any license they put out is that their definition of free isn't your definition of free. Be careful when adopting their licenses, because they can really bite you like this.And be careful in general if you change it. I would say that the MPL2 has what you want, but I haven't read it in years, so don't just take my word. You can honestly literally make the license file "You can do whatever you want with this software, but if you change it you must make your contributions available. Additionally, you use the software at your own risk and no express or implied warranty is provided". The Unlicense is something like 2 paragraphs and says almost exactly that minus the contribution bit, and yes, that will be legally binding. You could put "All users of this software must order a dozen cupcakes and send them to this address in New York" and it would be legally binding. No one would use your software, you'd be laughed out of the room, but it'd be legally binding. Using someone else's lawyer-vetted license is better if there's one that fits what you want to do of course.Some friends and I once got fucked over by a contractor who held code hostage on a hard deadline, hacked together a stupid 3 paragraph thing in Google Docs with grammar and formatting mistakes in 15 minutes, then forced us to sign it because we needed the code faster than could be handled through lawyers. It was also legally binding.@18As far as I know, SOLoud doesn't do HRTF. It might but I don't think it does. It does however contain Miniaudio, which is the public domain piece I might use for audio output.Only ones I know of are OpenALSoft, Resonance, and a thing called Slab3d. Everything else has to be licensed, i.e. wwise, Rapture3d, etc, and you're going to pay a pretty penny for it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503192/#p503192 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project Hi Camlorn, great idea! I think our community really needs a good 3D sound library. So far, in my memory, there is no audio game that truly manages the sound in 3D completely. I'll explain. So far the games use left and right panning to indicate the position of the object. But they do not manage the position of the object if it is in front of or behind the player. To overcome this they often use the peak. Would the library you intend to develop go in the direction I think, that is to say actually give the sensation that the object is in front of the player, or in the back?To understand each other, for good sound management in 3d, listen to this video. So far no audio game has ever managed to manage 3D sound in such a realistic way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IXm6SuUigIThanks and good job! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503191/#p503191 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project I would use it in any future projects I undertake. I always wanted the ability to use 3d audio and messing around with reverb, but all of my efforts were in vane. Open AL is just funky on my machine, FMOD wrapppers are dead in Python... I heard of SoLoud but have not tested that yet, and I don't know what other 3d libs are out there, lol. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503188/#p503188 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @15 thanks for the clarification. What you just described was the intent of using the LGPL. I'll talk with the others about, if we are going to change the licensing of lucia. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503187/#p503187 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @14Yeah. This is in a preliminary enough stage that I need to read the license. I'm not a fan of Apache either, but places like Google like it because of the patent-related clauses.200 samples is too long for realtime usage IMO. You might be able to get away with it but not on low end devices, or if someone tries to push it. Are you doing bilinear interpretation or just locking it to the nearest dataset point? The artifacts really show up when you start interpolating and moving sources around fast, or putting them between data points, plus to do the interpolations you need to run two copies of every source.perhaps if you don't have Libaudioverse's overhead you can effectively brute force it nowadays, but I know that OpenALSoft sounds as good as that Aureal demo and only uses 32 points by default.The TLDR is that a minimum phase filter "takes out" the delay, and puts all the most important coefficients at the front, so when you drop the tail you don't lose much if at all. Then you can interpolate the delay line part by stepping the delay line every sample.I'm curious: did you find any better HRTF data than the MIT dataset? I have a couple I haven't evaluated yet, but I wouldn't mind something better/more comprehensive. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503170/#p503170 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @13From your license file: " You may convey a Combined Work under terms of your choice that, taken together, effectively do not restrict modification of the portions of the Library contained in the Combined Work and reverse engineering for debugging such modifications, if you also do each of the following:" Each of the following don't matter, but I will leave it to you to read them if you want this quote in context.This is fine as long as you're not in a language where all the packing options involve converting to bytecode and hiding the source and where all of the obfuscation/reverse engineering things you might want to do require making the bytecode nonstandard, because those activities are directly against that license. You can't split the reverse engineering prevention of the game off and leave the library in a reverse engineering friendly state in Python.The LGPL works for C++ for instance because you just distribute the library as a DLL, and people can copy the DLLs around all they want, but as soon as you're in something like Python it doesn't.You probably wanted the MPL2, which requires that people making contributions to the library give their contributions back to the library if I recall correctly, but allows incorporation in modified works without this particular restriction, but that ship has probably sailed because afaik you have multiple contributors. Libaudioverse landed on the MPL2 because of the LGPL restriction above, since the bindings to any interpreted language would be licensed under it too, and run into the same problem.You don't need to be a legal professional to read the licenses. You only need to be a legal professional if you're going to defend them in court. Hopefully this doesn't kill the project, and it's possible no one cares, but it's definitely still a problem. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503167/#p503167 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
2020-02-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : philip_bennefall via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @12 Thank you for the references, I'll have to read up on that when I have some time. My convolution based approach uses slightly larger impulses (200 frames) since that's what the dataset contained, but if I can reduce that without noticeable differences in quality, it's always a bonus. It sounds pretty good at least to my ears, but of course there's always room for improvement.Regarding the Apache license, I am not a lawyer so of course I can't be 100% certain that my understanding is correct, but the following quote can be found here:http://www.apache.org/dev/apply-license.htmlSection 4d of the license provides for attribution notices to be included with a work in a NOTICE file, such that the attribution notices will remain, in some form, within any derivative works. Apache projects MUST include correct NOTICE documents in every distribution.It's not quite clear to me whether this applies to derivative works distributed in binary form, but that's what it sounds like.In any case, best of luck with your efforts. To answer your original question, if you do pick the Unlicense or something similarly liberal, I'm most definitely interested. Kind regards,Philip Bennefall URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503164/#p503164 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project
2020-02-21
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AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : philip_bennefall via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Gauging interest in another 3d audio project @12 Thank you for the references, I'll have to read up on that when I have some time. My convolution based approach uses slightly larger impulses (200 frames) since that's what the dataset contained, but if I can reduce that without noticeable differences in quality, it's always a bonus. It sounds pretty good at least to my ears, but of course there's always room for improvement.Regarding the Apache license, I am not a lawyer so of course I can't be 100% certain that my understanding is correct, but the following quote can be found here:http://www.apache.org/dev/apply-license.htmlSection 4d of the license provides for attribution notices to be included with a work in a NOTICE file, such that the attribution notices will remain, in some form, within any derivative works. Apache projects MUST include correct NOTICE documents in every distribution.It's not quite clear to me whether this applies to derivative works distributed in binary form, but that's what it sounds like.In any case, best of luck with your efforts. But to answer your original question, if you do pick the Unlicense or something similarly liberal, I'm most definitely interested. Kind regards,Philip Bennefall URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503164/#p503164 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
