Re: Should aliases expand after 'command'?

2016-10-25 Thread SHwareSyst
It seems ast-developers is still supposed to be the main bug reporting list, but reaching the associated machine spotty, as to when that server is booted up. A monitored bug fixes/new features fork probably won't be maintained until David gets his own copy of the repo, or if he wants push

Re: when does PATH search stop?

2016-11-23 Thread SHwareSyst
There is no precise definition of "acceptable", effectively. It's tied into the requirements specific processors or platforms have on where code and data can be placed in memory, which is outside C's and POSIX's scope. Most systems elect to localize all the (gory) details of creating an

Re: [1003.1(2016)/Issue7+TC2 0001110]: Return requirements for error on dlclo...

2016-12-26 Thread SHwareSyst
I don't see that it requires tracking any closed handle. The effect of returning non-zero for a valid handle value is more, to me, that the value stays in any list of open handles and any referenced structure marked inconsistent, possibly until process exit, possibly until an asynchronous

Re: Some questions on bug 529 (fildes unspecified on close()'s [EINTR])

2016-12-07 Thread SHwareSyst
It appears an Application Usage note that Portable Applications should mask off EINTR from delivery before calling close(), and reenable delivery after close() returns, is warranted for predictable behavior. This would give implementations a chance to do additional cleanup before the

Re: [1003.1(2013)/Issue7+TC1 0001016]: race condition with set -C

2017-03-29 Thread SHwareSyst
I agree something along these lines should be added. As worded now the assumption looks to be more the system is a single user one, or sandboxed to that effect, not a multi-user server. It doesn't even have to be a different user; a separate process that happens to use the same tmpnam()

Re: Rethinking pre/post-increment operators [was: [1003.1(2013)/Issue7+TC1 00...

2017-03-18 Thread SHwareSyst
Some older shells don't do longest match tokenizing of operators, so they might construe ++a as +(+a) or --a as -(-a). I suspect that is how dash and ksh88 are actually evaluating them, not ignoring them silently. With some hardware -(-a) isn't a no-op; it forces a format normalization.

Re: Minutes of the 9th March 2017 Teleconference

2017-03-13 Thread SHwareSyst
Just so people know, most of those comments on the etherpad aren't mine. I get the margin credit on the page because I pasted it from last week's notes as reference, as I'm who usually sets up the agenda boilerplate each week. If I'm running late, someone else that knows how to do it does it

Re: Should "exec" run a shell function?

2017-07-20 Thread SHwareSyst
The grammar has 'program' now too, so it doesn't necessarily follow that a script is precluded, I'd think... The exec() would be again of a shell instance, or equivalent. The wording has been, to me, more "replace with what is specified by simple_command as operand", whether that is a

Re: Environment of expansions and visibility of side-effect assignments

2017-07-25 Thread SHwareSyst
Only the explicit assignment preceding the command_word is evaluated in the new context, and uses the value from the caller's context temporarily. The expansions all occur in, and assignments affect, the caller's context first. So I agree VAR should stay an empty string or unset, but M, N,

Re: Environment of expansions and visibility of side-effect assignments

2017-07-25 Thread SHwareSyst
By P2366, L75534, redirections are performed in a subshell when no command name results, such as one affecting an entire compound command... It goes on that redirections otherwise may fail as part of the current execution environment, not the pending command environment. Maybe it needs to be

Re: Environment of expansions and visibility of side-effect assignments

2017-07-25 Thread SHwareSyst
I disagree about $M, as I see those sub-bullets applying during evaluation of that command or assignments only, in that order of evaluation isn't guaranteed except as a consequence of expansion nesting, and so a reference may get either a pre- or post-assignment value; but by the definition

Re: Solaris 11 certification and broken links at www.opengroup.org

2017-04-24 Thread SHwareSyst
This is my take on the discussion so far: As the method of forcing an environment to be POSIX conforming is implementation-defined in XBD 2, this method should be part of the conformance questionnaire, for both booting into this environment before the interactive shell starts, for

Re: Re bug 528 (sed -E) terminology: EREs have no back-references

2017-05-03 Thread SHwareSyst
I agree this aspect could be clearer, in that they aren't a breaking error, simply superfluous. The general behavior presently is to ignore back references in replacement strings with EREs as match strings, substituting the empty string, that I see, same as if \9 specified for a BRE that has

Re: SIGCHLD trap in a shell

2017-05-10 Thread SHwareSyst
Yes, reception can be blocked for reasons outside a scripts control before an action is set with trap, but the standard does speak to when signals are to be raised and delivery attempted. There is no blanket exception I see, if a regular utility is implemented as a built-in, that the system

Re: SIGCHLD trap in a shell

2017-05-10 Thread SHwareSyst
Still, the effects on the environment should be the same, as separate utility or built-in, including signal generation... Exceptions are for the special built-ins the standard requires be part of the shell, when documented that way, that I see. In a message dated 5/10/2017 7:45:32 A.M.

Re: SIGCHLD trap in a shell

2017-05-10 Thread SHwareSyst
Once the action is set, delivery should succeed, imo, for each child that would normally have a separate process id due to creation of a child utility environment. I can see older Unix's that didn't track process ids in sigevent structures, because they only implemented signal() and

Re: Shell parameter expansions involving '#"

2017-05-15 Thread SHwareSyst
I'm wondering, is it desirable to have a precedence of checking list, since '#' can be either parameter name or operator in that context, or require if there is ambiguity that the # special parameter be represented as $# inside the braces? I'm thinking 'foo=$# ${#foo##pat}' and '${pat}'

Re: Differences between versions of the standard

2017-06-12 Thread SHwareSyst
This would be the XRAT volume, and Change History in individual entries... This is only exhaustive in coverage from when the POSIX Group was formed, it appears, not for earlier IEEE and OpenGroup versions. There is a table of when various interfaces became part of the standard that A.Josey

Re: quoting in shell parameter expressions

2017-06-20 Thread SHwareSyst
I thought we touched upon this also in discussing adding $'...', with the resolution the arguments were WORDs in the grammatical sense and to be scanned that way with regards to quoting. This would supercede that clause in 221, as the standard choosing between conflicting interpretations

Re: fprintf, snprintf, etc., %n and overflow on the return value

2017-05-22 Thread SHwareSyst
The expected behavior is nothing gets written, since the size_t n argument is 0. Whether *() gets written to or not is ambiguous. The implied behavior is that since it is only checking what the buffer length should be, by the paragraph at line 31022, any %n is ignored since no output is

Re: [1003.1(2013)/Issue7+TC1 0001045]: Issues with "cd -"

2017-05-26 Thread SHwareSyst
That's why it's spelled out, so people don't use the Unicode visual duplicate in most fonts if some engine substitutes it, as Mantis does sometimes. Probably because '/' missing from following tag closure. In a message dated 5/26/2017 11:12:17 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,

Re: "-" operand to "sh"

2017-06-03 Thread SHwareSyst
I believe the purpose of this relates to when the -o option is specified it provides a way to use the no operand form to list values set from the environment at startup, so sh -o - ; or sh -o ; behaves like set -o ; but still permits something like sh -co - verbose -- arg1 ; to treat

Re: "-" operand to "sh"

2017-06-06 Thread SHwareSyst
I'm not against, as long as it doesn't reopen the trapdoor issue, but think it would have to be explicit the option listing function, -o or +o without value, is not supported by sh, just set; including 'sh -o;' and 'sh +o;' forms to keep it simple. This addresses the ambiguity that -o

Re: request for clarification on Open Group Base Specifications Issue 7: Canc...

2017-06-10 Thread SHwareSyst
I don't see the interface invoked to block the thread is allowed to cancel the request completely, simply that the interface may return to reduce serialization latencies for the 2 bullet point cases and the cancellation honored at the next plausible point in the code path, in accordance with

Re: [1003.1(2013)/Issue7+TC1 0001045]: Issues with "cd -"

2017-06-10 Thread SHwareSyst
In a message dated 6/10/2017 10:16:54 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, nore...@msnkbrown.net writes: (it's not even clear if such arrays of bytes may be stored in shell variables). This is allowed, clearly, but you currently have to jump through hoops to make use of an arbitrary sequence when

Re: [1003.1(2016)/Issue7+TC2 0001142]: pread(2) and pwrite(2) should be async...

2017-06-10 Thread SHwareSyst
Sorry for the confusion, I was looking at some code recently that appears to initialize a new file description with independent seek pointer from an open handle as part of what they call a dup(). It does save having to track the path string so open(path, ...) doesn't have to be used

Re: IEEE 1003.1b-1993 standard

2017-06-15 Thread SHwareSyst
Ty Joe, that will be useful. In a message dated 6/15/2017 4:44:49 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, gw...@raytheon.com writes: Joe M. I asked the IEEE if they could provide 1003.1b-1993 to The Austin Group, to support the revision of 1003.1-2008, and the IEEE have provided 1003.1b-1993

Re: [1003.1(2004)/Issue 6 0000267]: time (keyword)

2020-02-25 Thread shwaresyst
The thing is, various shells have implemented time as keyword, so this bug is trying to get the standard to reflect actual practice that ignored that Rationale. The debate is more some things allowed to utilities aren't allowed for keywords, and vice versa, so there are advantages to both. As

Re: [1003.1(2004)/Issue 6 0000267]: time (keyword)

2020-02-25 Thread shwaresyst
compatibility or needing any new keywords. On Tuesday, February 25, 2020 Robert Elz wrote:     Date:        Tue, 25 Feb 2020 17:47:23 + (UTC)     From:        shwaresyst     Message-ID:  <1701159045.321204.1582652843...@mail.yahoo.com>   | The thing is, various shells have implemente

RE: [Online Pubs 0001326]: Superfluous punctuations

2020-02-23 Thread shwaresyst
The parentheses are there to indicate all those are interfaces, without the wordier "last msgsnd interface call", or similar, in those lines. On Sunday, February 23, 2020 Austin Group Bug Tracker wrote: The following issue has been SUBMITTED.

Re: [1003.1(2004)/Issue 6 0000267]: time (keyword)

2020-02-24 Thread shwaresyst
I disagree with the notion of using names with colons, especially for new utilities, mainly because colon is the character used as path separator in PATH and there may be usage ambiguities resulting from this overload. I'd be more in favor of implementing labels with another character entirely

Re: [1003.1(2004)/Issue 6 0000267]: time (keyword)

2020-02-24 Thread shwaresyst
If you're going to go with 'z' suffix, "statz" is an option too; for session/process statistics or "state of the machine". On Monday, February 24, 2020 Scott Lurndal wrote: On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 09:23:16AM +, Geoff Clare wrote: > Chet Ramey wrote, on 16 Feb 2020: > > > > On 2/15/20 9:42

RE: Is there an atomic compare-swap function/routine in the standard?

2020-02-14 Thread shwaresyst
Presently, no. There are operations, such as with semaphores, where this sort of functionality might be used but has been left unspecified as many CPUs don't support exchanges; for most older ones only loads and stores are atomic, and the volatile modifier and sigatomic_t types are geared to

Re: Re: [1003.1(2004)/Issue 6 0000267]: time (keyword)

2020-02-18 Thread shwaresyst
al Message- From: Robert Elz To: shwaresyst Cc: Joerg.Schilling ; gwc ; austin-group-l Sent: Tue, Feb 18, 2020 11:34 AM Subject: Re: [1003.1(2004)/Issue 6 267]: time (keyword) Date:Tue, 18 Feb 2020 15:26:43 + (UTC)From: shwaresyst

Re: Re: Re: [1003.1(2004)/Issue 6 0000267]: time (keyword)

2020-02-18 Thread shwaresyst
ly storing the definition, and confusing the user, are more the conforming behavior. -Original Message- From: Joerg Schilling To: shwaresyst ; kre Cc: gwc ; austin-group-l Sent: Tue, Feb 18, 2020 12:08 PM Subject: Re: Re: [1003.1(2004)/Issue 6 267]: time (keyword) shwaresyst wrote:&g

Re: [1003.1(2004)/Issue 6 0000267]: time (keyword)

2020-02-18 Thread shwaresyst
It shouldn't matter whether a token prefix matches a reserved word or not; because the lparen is not separated by a function definition should be the "best, longest" match production that it is interpreted as, and so wouldn't be a syntax error. It's on use that keyword recognition would hide

RE: [1003.1(2008)/Issue 7 0000411]: adding atomic FD_CLOEXEC support

2020-03-12 Thread shwaresyst
Fyi,  the Last updated: date at top wasn't changed. On Thursday, March 12, 2020 Austin Group Bug Tracker wrote: A NOTE has been added to this issue. == https://www.austingroupbugs.net/view.php?id=411

Re: [1003.1(2008)/Issue 7 0000411]: adding atomic FD_CLOEXEC support

2020-03-12 Thread shwaresyst
Yw... Also, while change is minor, just putting out for next meeting, we probably want to take a look at the Related: bugs with Interpretations, see if any those need a timer restart to reflect the change properly. On Thursday, March 12, 2020 Eric Blake wrote: On 3/12/20 1:02 PM, shwaresyst

RE: XCU: 'return' from subshell

2020-03-10 Thread shwaresyst
I basically agree this is an issue - I see return as more for being interpreted as a lexical scope abort, whatever the execution context, and exit an execution scope abort, such as a subshell or separate script utility environment, as their basic intent. Further complicating things, I don't

Re: XCU: 'return' from subshell

2020-03-11 Thread shwaresyst
I agree this is something suitable for a TC type resolution. However, given the amount of existing practice, I do not see we should leave anything unspecified for Issue 8, even if some implementations break as a result. Either it always stops function execution or dot file processing, which

RE: Bug 1016: is anybody working on adding O_NOCLOBBER?

2020-04-16 Thread shwaresyst
yes, it is being worked on but not as a high priority, so Option 2 appears to be a no go. It may be better to revisit the bug and add a test for its availability to sysconf()/getconf as a formal option, in a Coming Attractions sense, so code can be written portably now based on using Option 1

Re: sh: aliases in command substitutions

2020-04-20 Thread shwaresyst
It seems to me that what is missing, in XCU 2.3.1, is a statement that use of keywords in alias bodies is unspecified behavior. Even outside double quotes an initial scan collecting tokens to form a logical line distinct from a potential io-here body will have to treat an alias name as a

Re: sh: aliases in command substitutions

2020-04-20 Thread shwaresyst
:        Mon, 20 Apr 2020 21:17:12 + (UTC)     From:        shwaresyst     Message-ID:  <1050536090.3716059.1587417432...@mail.yahoo.com>   | No, those are attempts at speed optimizations; I'm sad to have to reply like this, but do you have any idea at all what you're talking

Re: sh: aliases in command substitutions

2020-04-20 Thread shwaresyst
an actual name until recognition of the line as a whole has been completed. On Monday, April 20, 2020 Robert Elz wrote:     Date:        Mon, 20 Apr 2020 18:01:49 + (UTC)     From:        shwaresyst     Message-ID:  <1837359500.1041757.1587405709...@mail.yahoo.com>   | It seems to me tha

Re: sh: aliases in command substitutions

2020-04-21 Thread shwaresyst
impossible to have an interpreter that expands alias bodies first, simply that sh does not do it that way due to the possible ambiguities. On Tuesday, April 21, 2020 Joerg Schilling wrote: shwaresyst wrote: > No, those are attempts at speed optimizations; the description before the > numb

Re: XCU: 'exit' trap condition

2020-03-16 Thread shwaresyst
The wording can be construed the intent is the EXIT trap is always expected to be called, with a SIGEXIT delivered to the context of the subshell and not the parent, and otherwise to the parent for performing the trap in its context and terminating the parent. While a subshell context is

RE: [1003.1(2013)/Issue7+TC1 0000871]: Missing potential error code, EOVERFLOW

2020-04-02 Thread shwaresyst
This is not a duplicate, bug 315 covers only one case, this points out it applies to other places. If anything it is a child, not duplicate, that's why it was Accepted. On Thursday, April 2, 2020 Austin Group Bug Tracker wrote: The following issue has been set as DUPLICATE OF issue 315.

RE: sed '\n\nnd'

2020-03-25 Thread shwaresyst
The GNU version is more correct, in my opinion, in that the use of n as a delimiter should take precedence over its use as control character alias with the wording as is. The other versions appear to consider the BRE as so does not match 'n'. On Wednesday, March 25, 2020 Oğuz wrote:     echo

Re: sed '\n\nnd'

2020-03-25 Thread shwaresyst
delimeter overrides that interpretation, to get the results observed. On Wednesday, March 25, 2020 Harald van Dijk wrote: On 25/03/2020 21:09, shwaresyst wrote: > If it wasn't in single quotes, then that might be plausible, but I don't > see it as the intent since no other aliases are excluded as

Re: sed '\n\nnd'

2020-03-25 Thread shwaresyst
delimeter overrides that interpretation, to get the results observed. On Wednesday, March 25, 2020 Harald van Dijk wrote: On 25/03/2020 21:09, shwaresyst wrote: > If it wasn't in single quotes, then that might be plausible, but I don't > see it as the intent since no other aliases are excluded as

Re: sed '\n\nnd'

2020-03-25 Thread shwaresyst
llowing 'n' is the terminator, before the 'd' command. Should there be something explicit about aliases not being usable when repurposed as delimiter, maybe. On Wednesday, March 25, 2020 Harald van Dijk wrote: On 25/03/2020 19:44, shwaresyst wrote: > The GNU version is more correct, in my opinion, in that

RE: Mantis project for Issue8 bug reports?

2020-03-29 Thread shwaresyst
This has been suggested, but the ORs feel the time for such is when Issue 8 is formally released, not before. The austin-futures-l list is more the intended vehicle for issues of that nature, as to what's in place already, but it does not have its own Mantis, or other browser based, interface.

Re: Mantis project for Issue8 bug reports?

2020-03-29 Thread shwaresyst
Um, I did not say that people should get a draft whenever they want one, simply that the other list is being underutilized for discussion of issues arising from Mantis, not any drafts, until we have a release we feel is ready for public review. I wholly agree trying to reference non-releases

Re: [1003.1(2013)/Issue7+TC1 0000871]: Missing potential error code, EOVERFLOW

2020-04-02 Thread shwaresyst
ce. On Thursday, April 2, 2020 Geoff Clare wrote: shwaresyst wrote, on 02 Apr 2020: > > This is not a duplicate, bug 315 covers only one case, this points out it > applies to other places. If anything it is a child, not duplicate, that's why > it was Accepted. It was

Re: sed '\n\nnd'

2020-03-26 Thread shwaresyst
Dijk wrote: On 25/03/2020 23:30, shwaresyst wrote: > yes, without them the argument would be "nnnd", after quote removal by > the shell. The reasoning in first reply was meant to show that the > non-GNU versions might be erroneously treating the second '\' as "do > con

Re: sh: aliases in command substitutions

2020-04-22 Thread shwaresyst
, to indicate end of pattern, not ')', but these don't become part of the base PCS until Issue 9. On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 Joerg Schilling wrote: shwaresyst wrote: > No, you only lex up to the newline or EOF in the first pass, whether the > ending ')' or other context delimeter is

Re: sh: aliases in command substitutions

2020-04-22 Thread shwaresyst
for first lexically, then you'd have a stronger case, but it never has that I've seen. On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 Joerg Schilling wrote: shwaresyst wrote: > When you are evaluating substitutions, yes, expansion is required, but not on > the first pass recognizing them. This is the

Re: [1003.1(2016)/Issue7+TC2 0001341]: The resolution of bugid:1208 as amended by bugnote:4830 is incorrect

2020-05-09 Thread shwaresyst
Robert Elz wrote:     Date:        Sat, 9 May 2020 13:00:54 + (UTC)     From:        shwaresyst     Message-ID:  <600759678.614717.1589029254...@mail.yahoo.com>   | Just floating this out there... While a posix_spawnp() kernel imp doing   | PATH searches relative to the parent's pwd is

Re: Help request and introduction

2020-05-18 Thread shwaresyst
Personally, the offer is appreciated, but I would not find scans of the documents wrapped as a pdf all that useful, if this is intent. Using the original troff, if this is still available, to generate copy and searchable versions, with TOC and xrefs, would be nicer. On Monday, May 18, 2020 J

Re: [1003.1(2016)/Issue7+TC2 0001341]: The resolution of bugid:1208 as amended by bugnote:4830 is incorrect

2020-05-09 Thread shwaresyst
Just floating this out there... While a posix_spawnp() kernel imp doing PATH searches relative to the parent's pwd is a well defined behavior, should there be an additional file_action that search for the executable happens after the chdir action; for the case where PATH, as inherited by the

Re: [1003.1(2008)/Issue 7 0000518]: Allow make's "include" to include multiple files

2020-03-19 Thread shwaresyst
I can't reopen the bug to add a note, so like we did 1318 on top of 411, it probably should be reopened and discussed. Straightforward or not, what you put in is not what is marked as to be put in. On Thursday, March 19, 2020 Geoff Clare wrote: shwaresyst wrote, on 18 Mar 2020

Re: XCU: 'return' from subshell

2020-03-10 Thread shwaresyst
se wrote: On 10/03/20 18:25, shwaresyst wrote: > > I basically agree this is an issue - I see return as more for being interpreted as a lexical scope abort, whatever the execution context, and exit an execution scope abort, such as a subshell or separate script utility environment, as their

RE: [1003.1(2016)/Issue7+TC2 0001347]: stderr access mode - "is expected to be" is not defined

2020-05-29 Thread shwaresyst
Re: matter in connection with C's stderr but only for file descriptor 2 (as inherited by the login shell). Isn't there something about stdin, stdout, and stderr being required to reference the same open file descriptions as fd's 0, 1, and 2, respectively, with inheritance? An application can

Re: [1003.1(2016)/Issue7+TC2 0001347]: stderr access mode - "is expected to be" is not defined

2020-05-29 Thread shwaresyst
No, I did have the "respectively" in there, for 3 separate possible file descriptions. It is also, near as I can tell, a requirement of the C standard those FILE records exist and be usable at program startup, whether included or not, for referencing either an already open stream or be in a

Re: [1003.1(2016)/Issue7+TC2 0001345]: date(1) default format

2020-07-21 Thread shwaresyst
t;, and by extension "POSIX", locale is unchanged from C99, and has not added %Z. This would apply to its usage both by strftime() and strptime(), to  maintain symmetry, I would think. On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 J William Piggott wrote: On Sun, 12 Jul 2020, shwaresyst wrote: Thank y

RE: Status of $'...' addition (was: ksh93 job control behaviour)

2020-07-30 Thread shwaresyst
Also, as something new, its inclusion is part of a later draft of Issue 8. Additional issues it depends on need to be addressed first, specified fully, and incorporated. This is more why it went on the back burner, that I recall. Various other bugs are in similar state; the prerequisites to

Re: ${unset_var=~:~user} (was: A question about interpretation)

2020-07-31 Thread shwaresyst
Robert has a point that assignments, as represented by the ASSIGNMENT_WORD token in the grammar, should be represented by a production of the form: ASSIGNMENT_WORD :: name EQ WORD For 2.6.1 that is the assignment form referenced where word expansion, of the WORD in that production, is relevant

Re: Status of $'...' addition (was: ksh93 job control behaviour)

2020-07-31 Thread shwaresyst
conversions are plausible, it's just how has no portable specification currently, it is left as unspecified. On Friday, July 31, 2020 Steffen Nurpmeso wrote: shwaresyst wrote in <1371185781.9853799.1596158030...@mail.yahoo.com>: |It is not "some sensible \u sequences" alone. First off

Re: [Issue 8 drafts] Error in XCU 2.9.4.5

2020-07-08 Thread shwaresyst
That still has some_other_command never getting executed, so I think just adding the printf sufficient. On Wednesday, July 8, 2020 Nick Stoughton wrote: The whole point of this example is to show that the exit status *of the while loop* will be zero if the loop does not execute, and if you

RE: Why does %#x omit the 0x prefix for a zero value?

2020-07-06 Thread shwaresyst
The necessity for "0x" is to disambiguate from octal numbers with their leading '0', or decimal for a context allowing leading zeroes, but since a 0 is the same in all radices I suspect the decision was not to require it to keep field width minimal for delimited formats like CSV. As to 2nd,

Re: [1003.1(2016)/Issue7+TC2 0001345]: date(1) default format

2020-07-12 Thread shwaresyst
The reason for the disconnect, that I see, is because the %Z modifier references the TZ environment variable, not a value in a struct tm, adding it to d_t_fmt would disqualify the definition from being __STD_C__ conforming. This is one of the areas where the C standard can be considered

Re: LC_CTYPE=UTF-8

2020-06-25 Thread shwaresyst
There are plans for this, having a POSIX.UTF-8 locale as an XSI base requirement. There may be POSIX.UTF-E and UTF-I locales too; same features, simply the different charmaps. As options there may even be, albeit this is unlikely as no platform I'm aware of fully supports ISO-6429 now, a

Re: LC_CTYPE=UTF-8

2020-06-25 Thread shwaresyst
The locale requirements specified in the C standard are what is applicable for implementations that limit their character encoding to the basic source and execution character sets. POSIX requires implementations to support, in at least one provided charmap, the superset of the basic sets

RE: Is ksh93's default alias command='command ' POSIX compliant?

2020-06-14 Thread shwaresyst
The command alias is nominally conforming, I believe, in that recursive alias expansion isn't permitted so looking for a utility named command still occurs. However, the implementation of various utilities as aliases changes the reporting of 'command -v', or '-V',  to that they are aliases and

Re: [1003.1(2016)/Issue7+TC2 0001345]: date(1) default format

2020-06-21 Thread shwaresyst
Re: Are not the examples demonstrating relevant date utility specification requirments as follows: No, they are examples of how the various specified elements can produce output reflecting various locale LC_TIME settings, that's all. The actual format string is still an unspecified

Re: [1003.1(2016)/Issue7+TC2 0001345]: date(1) default format

2020-06-10 Thread shwaresyst
There is also the POSIX locale is a superset of the C locale as defined by the C standard, because it requires support of the Portable Character Set, which has more chars than C requires, and has the LC_MESSAGES category; as primary differences. On Wednesday, June 10, 2020 Joerg Schilling

RE: Should POSIX/SUS advise against MSG_OOB in recognition of RFC 6093?

2020-07-25 Thread shwaresyst
That the semantics are unspecified already disqualifies them from use by portable applications. If it was implementation-defined then such an addition might be warranted, that I see. On Saturday, July 25, 2020 Danny Niu wrote: RFC 6093 "On the Implementation of the TCP Urgent Mechanism"

Re: [Issue 8 drafts 0001349]: Where to obtain ISO/IEC standards (footnote)

2020-07-19 Thread shwaresyst
That reference was left as-is because the Issue 8 draft targets C17 (or 18), but there's a chance c2x may get ratified first so that may affect later drafts. On Sunday, July 19, 2020 Quentin Rameau wrote: Hello, > == >

Re: Status of $'...' addition (was: ksh93 job control behaviour)

2020-07-30 Thread shwaresyst
understand left-associative combining sequences, and these interfaces are portable because requirements in XBD add that support. On Thursday, July 30, 2020 Steffen Nurpmeso wrote: shwaresyst wrote in <1127836834.9524758.1596121054...@mail.yahoo.com>: |Yes, the additions necessary still

Re: Status of $'...' addition (was: ksh93 job control behaviour)

2020-07-30 Thread shwaresyst
to be written, or published if some have been. On Thursday, July 30, 2020 Steffen Nurpmeso wrote: shwaresyst wrote in <311169368.9432836.1596108598...@mail.yahoo.com>: |On Thursday, July 30, 2020 Geoff Clare wrote: |Robert Elz wrote, on 29 Jul 2020: |> |> Speaking of

Re: [1003.1(2013)/Issue7+TC1 0000697]: Adding of a getdirentries() function

2020-09-01 Thread shwaresyst via austin-group-l at The Open Group
needs to be implemented to be wrapped. On Tuesday, September 1, 2020 Steffen Nurpmeso wrote: shwaresyst wrote in <1739483391.1543785.1598977118...@mail.yahoo.com>: |No, it couldn't introduce such a macro, because such would have to \ |assume all d_name entries are the same length.

RE: [1003.1(2013)/Issue7+TC1 0000697]: Adding of a getdirentries() function

2020-09-02 Thread shwaresyst via austin-group-l at The Open Group
array is not a VLA, in the sense C uses the term.   From: shwaresyst Sent: September 1, 2020 4:55 PM To: Wojtek Lerch ; austin-group-l@opengroup.org Subject: RE: [1003.1(2013)/Issue7+TC1 697]: Adding of a getdirentries() function   What that refers to, it looks, is any tail padding

RE: [1003.1(2013)/Issue7+TC1 0000697]: Adding of a getdirentries() function

2020-09-02 Thread shwaresyst via austin-group-l at The Open Group
d to page-align data structures in some situations, I still don’t see its relevance to a discussion of the C standard’s requirements regarding padding in struct types and how it’s affected by flexible arrays.   From: shwaresyst Sent: September 2, 2020 1:58 PM To: Wojtek Lerch ; austin-g

Re: [1003.1(2013)/Issue7+TC1 0000697]: Adding of a getdirentries() function

2020-09-01 Thread shwaresyst via austin-group-l at The Open Group
No, it couldn't introduce such a macro, because such would have to assume all d_name entries are the same length. Adding an option to the interface to do a count, as a vararg parameter, and directly malloc the necessary space, returned via my suggested change to buf as a **, is plausible.

RE: [1003.1(2013)/Issue7+TC1 0000697]: Adding of a getdirentries() function

2020-09-01 Thread shwaresyst via austin-group-l at The Open Group
I agree some additional clarity might be useful there, in the C standard. I'm reading it as the intent being sizeof is equivalent to offsetof the VLA in accordance with the restrictions placed on it by use of the . or -> operators, which may not need extra bytes (so >vla == ( + sizeof(s)) is a

RE: [1003.1(2013)/Issue7+TC1 0000697]: Adding of a getdirentries() function

2020-09-01 Thread shwaresyst via austin-group-l at The Open Group
. Furthermore, requiring these existing implementations to change their layout would break binary backwards compatibility with previous versions.   See DR282 for more details:http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg14/www/docs/dr_282.htm     From: shwaresyst Sent: September 1, 2020 2:27 PM

RE: Overflow conditions for read() and fread() (was: [1003.1(2013)/Issue7+TC1 0000697]: Adding of a getdirentries() function)

2020-10-07 Thread shwaresyst via austin-group-l at The Open Group
The C standard leaves it undefined for fread() because it doesn't require EOVERFLOW in , that I see, or presumes size_t will always be a short or int type. Since POSIX does have it and does not presume a limited width I feel this is a place where a CX extension is warranted as a portability

RE: behaviour of pthread_attr_[sg]etguardsize with thread maintained stack

2020-09-22 Thread shwaresyst via austin-group-l at The Open Group
Once pthread_attr_init() successfully completes the guardsize should be set to the default value and may be examined by pthread_attr_getguardsize(), that I see. A call to setguardsize() should store the value and be returned by subsequent getguardsize() calls, even though it is not used after

Re: behaviour of pthread_attr_[sg]etguardsize with thread maintained stack

2020-09-22 Thread shwaresyst via austin-group-l at The Open Group
a pointer to the attr object. On Tuesday, September 22, 2020 Robert Elz wrote:     Date:        Tue, 22 Sep 2020 11:05:05 + (UTC)     From:        "shwaresyst via austin-group-l at The Open Group"     Message-ID:  <1248402378.5117076.1600772705...@mail.yahoo.com>   | Once p

Re: behaviour of pthread_attr_[sg]etguardsize with thread maintained stack

2020-09-22 Thread shwaresyst via austin-group-l at The Open Group
by the application. On Tuesday, September 22, 2020 Robert Elz wrote:     Date:        Tue, 22 Sep 2020 14:38:07 + (UTC)     From:        shwaresyst     Message-ID:  <32911555.5186984.1600785487...@mail.yahoo.com>   | Yes, it is no longer a factor, I would have guessed that is what "not

Re: Proposal to update reference to POSIX in the ISO C++ standard

2020-09-28 Thread shwaresyst via austin-group-l at The Open Group
The 2018 edition is the latest ISO/IEC/IEEE version, in that it was balloted and approved to keep the IEEE "current standard" clock from timing out. The 2008 edition plus TCs is now the prior version, in the formal sense. On Thursday, September 24, 2020 Jonathan Wakely via austin-group-l at The

Re: Proposal to update reference to POSIX in the ISO C++ standard

2020-09-28 Thread shwaresyst via austin-group-l at The Open Group
It's my understanding ISO/IEC was to bump their distribution also, to keep in synch. Nick S. would be more conversant with the details of thay, though. On Monday, September 28, 2020 Jonathan Wakely wrote: On 28/09/20 14:36 +, shwaresyst wrote: > >The 2018 edition is the latest ISO/IE

RE: [1003.1(2016/18)/Issue7+TC2 0001406]: clarification of SEEK_END when current pointer doesn't match buffer size

2020-09-28 Thread shwaresyst via austin-group-l at The Open Group
As I read it, file size and *seek(SEEK_END, 0) will still be 16, reflecting how many bytes were written to the buffer and which had to be malloc'd. The rewind overwrites the first bytes and a flush, close reflects the size of data considered to be valid after the rewind, since there is no

RE: printf (the utility) expected range of integer values

2020-10-24 Thread shwaresyst via austin-group-l at The Open Group
The text relevant to all this I see is the paragraph at line 104150, page 3114, c181.pdf, which limits outputs to the internal representation range of the format characters used, converted back to text. This should probably be explicit that the conversion shall detect overflows, positive or

Re: printf (the utility) expected range of integer values

2020-10-24 Thread shwaresyst via austin-group-l at The Open Group
t as an actual value. On Saturday, October 24, 2020 Robert Elz wrote:     Date:        Sat, 24 Oct 2020 16:47:41 + (UTC)     From:        shwaresyst     Message-ID:  <160402159.2963847.1603558061...@mail.yahoo.com>   | The text relevant to all this I see is the paragraph at line 104150,

Re: Pseudoterminal terminology in POSIX

2020-08-05 Thread shwaresyst via austin-group-l at The Open Group
The slave side is ancillary to the master, sorry, as physical terminals are ancillary to the processor hardware, imo. Inverting the relationship makes it look like it is the intent of the slave side to source the majority of the data, when more often it is only monitoring output data sourced

Re: [1003.1(2016/18)/Issue7+TC2 0001346]: Require support for CLOCK_MONOTONIC

2020-12-03 Thread shwaresyst via austin-group-l at The Open Group
versions of the standard with one runtime and set of headers. On Thursday, December 3, 2020 Robert Elz wrote:     Date:        Thu, 3 Dec 2020 18:11:51 + (UTC)     From:        shwaresyst     Message-ID:  <684426419.4103424.1607019111...@mail.yahoo.com>   | The 20yymmL shall be replaced with the

Re: [1003.1(2016/18)/Issue7+TC2 0001346]: Require support for CLOCK_MONOTONIC

2020-12-03 Thread shwaresyst via austin-group-l at The Open Group
The 20yymmL shall be replaced with the value specific to Issue 8 when that is finalized, not that an implementation may choose an arbitrary value after 2000. It's a placeholder to indicate this for the bug report only. The other 200809L values all get a blanket change eventually too,

RE: clarification needed: shell 'exec' + function (builtin, …)

2020-12-09 Thread shwaresyst via austin-group-l at The Open Group
I agree more clarification is desirable. The reason I see as why the function isn't executed is it may be treating it as an invoke of "sh -c ls", because ls is a function, but this new sh does not inherit that definition so it looks on path instead and finds the utility. On Wednesday, December

Re: make(1) parallelization, but especially .WAITing

2020-11-03 Thread shwaresyst via austin-group-l at The Open Group
, November 3, 2020 Paul Smith via austin-group-l at The Open Group wrote: On Mon, 2020-11-02 at 15:44 +, shwaresyst via austin-group-l at The Open Group wrote: > With that phrasing is also reserved, since it > is not " followed ONLY by uppercase". Using ".NO_parallel" >

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