Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

I like where you're going, but what do we do about interoperability? There's a hint in your post that we'll simply leave apps broken, stick up our middle fingers, and tempt developers with our millions of users. That may work for open source projects in our repository, but we need to accept t

Re: [Ayatana] Making workspaces great (branched from "Farewell to the notification area")

Here's an idea for a kind of Mac OS X Expose fullscreen (in the way Apple's Front Row fullscreens) way to move either windows or all windows of an application from workspaces. Also is probably touch-friendly. I want to get the general idea of moving windows/applications between workspaces by draggi

[Ayatana] Tagging in Nautilus

how about tagging files and folders in nautilus? i wouldn't have to move them around much anymore, if i could attach tags to them. imagine you don't have to move your files around physically anymore, you just navigate them via tagging.. on a fs level that would be horrendous i suppose, perhaps so

Re: [Ayatana] Making workspaces great (branched from "Farewell to the notification area")

I think a distinction should be made between what would work well on desktops and what would work well on netbooks. Using only maximized windows on a 24in screen for example doesn't sound like something people would be into. As screen size gets bigger I see window management going more towards eas

Re: [Ayatana] Making workspaces great (branched from "Farewell to the notification area")

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 4:13 AM, Conscious User wrote: > > You might want to take a look at those: > > DockbarX > http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=101604 > > Talika > http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Talika+applet?content=118267 Thanks for those, they look interesting and sho

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

In interest of further and slightly more organized discussion, I'm finally starting a blog that I've been meaning to for sometime, about usability (I know, another one) in the interest of eventually developing ideas, not just talking about them. If you're interested in any of the idea's I've presen

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 22:40, Conscious User wrote: > >> If people don't figure out how to use something we designed, the answer >> is to improve the design, and not to mount a campaign to educate them :-) >> >> By which I mean that the pieces should feel more natural, and getting >> things done

Re: [Ayatana] Making workspaces great (branched from "Farewell to the notification area")

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 22:47, Tyler Brainerd wrote: > I think we need to focus a bit more on the fundamental reasons why we use > workspaces. I for one often switch to a new workspace because i don't want > to see any of what i was working on before. I don't want tabs from before, > apps from bef

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

Specifically concerning the idea of a constant place to minimize windows too, on a parallel fork of the original email run, we've been discussing this. I don't know if anyone likes my idea as of yet, but I'm going to keep repeating it anyway. :D The beginning of the discussion centered on an idea

Re: [Ayatana] Making workspaces great (branched from "Farewell to the notification area")

> I think we need to focus a bit more on the fundamental reasons why we > use workspaces. I for one often switch to a new workspace because i > don't want to see any of what i was working on before. I don't want > tabs from before, apps from before, any single thing, just a clean, > open, new desk

Re: [Ayatana] Making workspaces great (branched from "Farewell to the notification area")

I think we need to focus a bit more on the fundamental reasons why we use workspaces. I for one often switch to a new workspace because i don't want to see any of what i was working on before. I don't want tabs from before, apps from before, any single thing, just a clean, open, new desktop. The on

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 13:48 +0100, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Jim Rorie wrote on 22/04/10 01:42: > >... > > > > In short, what provisions have you made to provide the same short cut > > functionality without introducing additional clicks? >

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

> If people don't figure out how to use something we designed, the answer > is to improve the design, and not to mount a campaign to educate them :-) > > By which I mean that the pieces should feel more natural, and getting > things done should be more natural, or we're not succeeding. It is a n

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

Hello Mark, On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 08:49 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > It's a good point. The workspaces experience has languished, and I'd > like for us to climb in and improve it substantially. At the moment, > we > do a half-hearted job - we ship what's there but as you say, only > configure

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On 22 April 2010 18:14, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > Conscious User wrote: >> " 1) Communicating the goals and current status to end users. The amount >> of people who think the messaging menu is only a launcher, for >> example, is overwhelming. > > If people don't figure out how to use something we

Re: [Ayatana] Hovering to open items on the top panel

I think this has some potential. We could at the very least give it a test run during the maverick alphas. On 22 Apr 2010 18:50, "Frederik Nnaji" wrote: On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 18:35, Diego Moya wrote: >> It makes the accidental hove... i can imagine a proficient hacker would not care about too

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

Conscious User wrote: > " 1) Communicating the goals and current status to end users. The amount > of people who think the messaging menu is only a launcher, for > example, is overwhelming. If people don't figure out how to use something we designed, the answer is to improve the design, and not to

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jeremy Nickurak wrote on 21/04/10 21:58: > > AFAIK, this is a major deviation from what upstream and other > distributions are doing, even larger than that of notify-osd. We'll be working as closely as possible with the developers of all those applic

Re: [Ayatana] Hovering to open items on the top panel

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 18:35, Diego Moya wrote: >> It makes the accidental hover over these menus a lot more painful. I'd rather >> not have this. i can imagine a proficient hacker would not care about too much of this, his hands being on the keyboard most of the time. > Ditto. But I think this

Re: [Ayatana] Hovering to open items on the top panel

On 22 April 2010 17:30, Chow Loong Jin wrote: > On Thursday 22,April,2010 10:51 PM, Luke Benstead wrote: >> Then I thought, it would be pretty cool if all the menus on the panel >> (including Applications, Places, System, Me menu, Indicators and the >> calendar ) opened on hover. That would reduce

Re: [Ayatana] Tasque, Giver

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 18:16, John Lea wrote: > Hyia, you might want to post this to the ubuntuone-us...@lists.launchpad.net > mailing list.  I'm not sure if any of the developers working with CouchDB > subscribe to this list, so you may not get a answer to your question here. perhaps one of the

Re: [Ayatana] Tasque, Giver

Hyia, you might want to post this to the ubuntuone-us...@lists.launchpad.net mailing list. I'm not sure if any of the developers working with CouchDB subscribe to this list, so you may not get a answer to your question here. On 22/04/2010 16:29, Chow Loong Jin wrote: On Thursday 22,April,201

Re: [Ayatana] Making workspaces great (branched from "Farewell to the notification area")

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 02:55, Conscious User wrote: > Can you please elaborate more on how vertical setups help your > organization? I use a 2x2 setup too, but mainly for keyboard > navigation purposes, something that would not be forbidden by > the tab concept. Multi-dimensional organization. X

Re: [Ayatana] Hovering to open items on the top panel

On Thursday 22,April,2010 10:51 PM, Luke Benstead wrote: > I've just been thinking about the new indicators, and how there were > some complaints about it adding a click to get to stuff in the menus. > Then I thought, it would be pretty cool if all the menus on the panel > (including Applications,

Re: [Ayatana] Tasque, Giver

On Thursday 22,April,2010 10:48 PM, Frederik Nnaji wrote: > On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 15:12, John Lea wrote: >> I think a first step towards making Tasque work with Ubuntu One could be >> moving it to using CouchDB for it's own storage. The best person to talk to >> about this is Stuart Langridge,

[Ayatana] Hovering to open items on the top panel

I've just been thinking about the new indicators, and how there were some complaints about it adding a click to get to stuff in the menus. Then I thought, it would be pretty cool if all the menus on the panel (including Applications, Places, System, Me menu, Indicators and the calendar ) opened on

Re: [Ayatana] Tasque, Giver

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 15:12, John Lea wrote: > I think a first step towards making Tasque work with Ubuntu One could be > moving it to using CouchDB for it's own storage.  The best person to talk to > about this is Stuart Langridge, see https://launchpad.net/~sil >

Re: [Ayatana] Making workspaces great (branched from "Farewell to the notification area")

> Interestingly I was just about to post a response to this thread with > a similar idea... > > The main problem I find with workspaces is their interaction with the > window list. It would be nice if all applications were visible on the > window list all the time *but* grouped into workspaces with

Re: [Ayatana] Making workspaces great (branched from "Farewell to the notification area")

> I brainstormed a little on your mockup. The attached image shows > workspaces as tabs, and inside it are the actual applications. > > This could easily carry dock functionality as well, where you pin some > applications to a particular workspace. > > -- > Remco > > ___

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On 21 April 2010 22:44, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi folks > > On the new Canonical Design site, we've just posted an overview of our > plan to retire the notification area (a.k.a. "system tray") from Ubuntu > by 11.04.

Re: [Ayatana] Making workspaces great (branched from "Farewell to the notification area")

On 22 April 2010 15:24, Remco wrote: > On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 10:27, Conscious User wrote: >> >>> It's a good point. The workspaces experience has languished, and I'd >>> like for us to climb in and improve it substantially. At the moment, we >>> do a half-hearted job - we ship what's there but

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

> That's true, we haven't done as good a job of communication in the past > as we could have. But we're working on improving it. For this issue > yesterday there were posts on design.canonical.com, > markshuttleworth.com, this mailing list, Twitter, and Identica. And I thank you and Mark for thos

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On 22 April 2010 12:59, Vishnoo wrote: > On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 08:49 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: >> On 22/04/10 04:27, Robin Anderson wrote: >> It's a good point. The workspaces experience has languished, and I'd >> like for us to climb in and improve it substantially. At the moment, we >> do a

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Conscious User wrote on 21/04/10 22:28: >... > As a regular reader of Ubuntu Forums, I know for a fact that there are > two things in Ayatana that really need improving: > > 1) Communicating the goals and current status to end users. The amount > of pe

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dylan McCall wrote on 22/04/10 04:50: >... > First of all, I think it would be worth investigating sound effects > attached to indicators. Doing it through the indicator applet means we > can (if desired) use Canberra's awesome ca_gtk_play_for_widget f

Re: [Ayatana] Tasque, Giver

I think a first step towards making Tasque work with Ubuntu One could be moving it to using CouchDB for it's own storage. The best person to talk to about this is Stuart Langridge, see https://launchpad.net/~sil . On 22/04/2010 06:56, Frederik Nnaji wrote: good

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jim Rorie wrote on 22/04/10 01:42: >... > A prominent example is that of the music player. Short of having a > window open to get in your way, the NA icon gives you a way to control > the player with a minimum number of clicks and no window management

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Frederik Nnaji wrote on 22/04/10 02:29: > > On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 23:04, Shane Fagan > wrote: >... >> I think the target is far enough but I wouldnt like to remove it from >> the default install until upstreams adopt the new spec fully. Which >> wi

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

Conscious User: "1) Communicating the goals and current status to end users. The amount of people who think the messaging menu is only a launcher, for example, is overwhelming. And I cannot really blame them in those cases. What should I say? "Well, it's obvious if you were subscribed in the Ayata

Re: [Ayatana] Making workspaces great (branched from "Farewell to the notification area")

On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 13:15 +0200, Jan-Christoph Borchardt wrote: > I do not use workspaces at all. Neither do I have a bottom panel. The > waste of space on the top panel has become the area for the »tabs« – > the window list applet. That way I can comfortably change between > full-screen applica

Re: [Ayatana] Making workspaces great (branched from "Farewell to the notification area")

> I also run maximus to eliminate the space-wasting titlebar. > Test-driving GNOME Shell, I am waiting for a (native) global menu. At > the moment, I am torn between the two approaches to use the space in > the titlebar: window list or menu. It may be best to use only icons > for the windows (like

Re: [Ayatana] Making workspaces great (branched from "Farewell to the notification area")

> I think we should coordinate this with Gnome, and ask them whether > they're going to do anything with that space in Gnome Shell. It would > be stupid to design something awesome, then realise that Shell uses > that space for a essential part of its functionality. >From the current state, it se

Re: [Ayatana] Making workspaces great (branched from "Farewell to the notification area")

On 22 April 2010 10:27, Conscious User wrote: > A tabbed system like Robin mentioned sounds very nice to me for two > reasons: first, it's very familiar as tabbed browsers are nearly > ubiquitous now. Second, am I the only one here annoyed at the fact that > there is a *huge* waste of space in the

Re: [Ayatana] Making workspaces great (branched from "Farewell to the notification area")

> I thought of maybe bringing up adding workspaces on-the-fly but > dropped it when I thought of a person that had no experience with > multiple workspaces say open an application set to create a new > workspace and being annoyed/angered/confused by all of the windows > they just had now being go

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

Just to make sure you get enough feedback... Workspaces is the one feature that made me think my Linux desktop is clearly superior to windows. The ability to organize niches for different uses like work, internet, fun (music and video), and easily switch between then is great. Instead of getting r

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 20:27 -0700, Robin Anderson wrote: > One important point I hope the design team is aware of and that gets > into discussions on this topic is that minimizing to the "notification > area" / "(not) system tray" is currently a very nice place to put > applications so they're acce

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On Thu, 2010-04-22 at 08:49 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > On 22/04/10 04:27, Robin Anderson wrote: > > One important point I hope the design team is aware of and that gets > > into discussions on this topic is that minimizing to the "notification > > area" / "(not) system tray" is currently a v

Re: [Ayatana] Making workspaces great (branched from "Farewell to the notification area")

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 9:27 AM, Conscious User wrote: > >> It's a good point. The workspaces experience has languished, and I'd >> like for us to climb in and improve it substantially. At the moment, we >> do a half-hearted job - we ship what's there but as you say, only >> configure two workspac

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On 22 April 2010 08:49, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > The workspaces experience has languished, and I'd > like for us to climb in and improve it substantially. At the moment, we > do a half-hearted job - we ship what's there but as you say, only > configure two workspaces. I'd be inclined to say "sh

Re: [Ayatana] Making workspaces great (branched from "Farewell to the notification area")

I think we should coordinate this with Gnome, and ask them whether they're going to do anything with that space in Gnome Shell. It would be stupid to design something awesome, then realise that Shell uses that space for a essential part of its functionality. Nicholas Ipsen > > ___

Re: [Ayatana] Making workspaces great (branched from "Farewell to the notification area")

I really should be going to bed but this is some interesting stuff. I thought of maybe bringing up adding workspaces on-the-fly but dropped it when I thought of a person that had no experience with multiple workspaces say open an application set to create a new workspace and being annoyed/angered/

Re: [Ayatana] Making workspaces great (branched from "Farewell to the notification area")

Oops, sorry I didn't see this thread until after I hit "send". Please consider my most recent email in the other thread to be part of this one. On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 1:55 AM, Conscious User wrote: > > > While I like the basic concept, there are going to be severe limits. > > First off, what abo

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

Since I just joined this list I don't know of an easy way to reply to the messages sent so far in this thread so I'll say here, I definitely agree with everything in the thread so far; quality suggestions. For how to have minimized applications available on all workspaces: My first thought was to

Re: [Ayatana] Making workspaces great (branched from "Farewell to the notification area")

> While I like the basic concept, there are going to be severe limits. > First off, what about vertical desktops? I have a 2x 2 setup, and its > worked wonders for me for keeping organized. I personally can't stand > the stick em all in the line organization. Can you please elaborate more on how

Re: [Ayatana] Making workspaces great (branched from "Farewell to the notification area")

sorry, forgot a bit. you could even implement this to the point of, rather then having the links of the messenging menu open the app over the current workspace instead be the email layer selector itself. i'll get to work on some mockups to explain this a little better. On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 1:3

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On 22 April 2010 03:49, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: > > It's a good point. The workspaces experience has languished, and I'd > like for us to climb in and improve it substantially. At the moment, we > do a half-hearted job - we ship what's there but as you say, only > configure two workspaces. I'd b

Re: [Ayatana] Making workspaces great (branched from "Farewell to the notification area")

While I like the basic concept, there are going to be severe limits. First off, what about vertical desktops? I have a 2x 2 setup, and its worked wonders for me for keeping organized. I personally can't stand the stick em all in the line organization. Secondly, do we want to implement adding worksp

Re: [Ayatana] Farewell to the notification area

On 22/04/10 04:27, Robin Anderson wrote: > One important point I hope the design team is aware of and that gets > into discussions on this topic is that minimizing to the "notification > area" / "(not) system tray" is currently a very nice place to put > applications so they're accessible from all