Re: [Ayatana] New idea of usability for Unity
On 21/03/11 11:12, Mitja Pagon wrote: Good stuff - the menu (M) button should be implemented by ages .. finally some necessary order regarding usability No it should not, it's a bad idea and a degradation of usablity and if you would have even the basic understanding of the subject of usability you would know why. I do wonder however, whether it would have been a better choice to unify the global-menu under a single menu button (similar in specification to those of Firefox 4.0 and Opera 10.0). Whilst I understand that there is some utility in the global-menu in it's present form (i.e. that the end-user can see the menu they're targeting) I find that nested vertical menus are more intuitive to navigate. Furthermore the global-menu, as presently implemented in Unity, feels cramped due to crowding of Unity's panel IMHO. Regards, Lee. -- The second basic thesis is that intellectual freedom is essential to human society — freedom to obtain and distribute information, freedom for open-minded and unfearing debate and freedom from pressure by officialdom and prejudices. Such a trinity of freedom of thought is the only guarantee against an infection of people by mass myths, which, in the hands of treacherous hypocrites and demagogues, can be transformed into bloody dictatorship. Freedom of thought is the only guarantee of the feasibility of a scientific democratic approach to politics, economics and culture. -- Andrei Sakharov, The New York Times (July 22nd, 1968) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] New idea of usability for Unity
On 21/03/11 11:41, SorinN wrote: Using Close-Minimize-Maximize buttons on the left side on the window top is a breach for example (if you would have even the basic understanding of the subject of usability you would know why...) +1 :-) Regards, Lee. -- It is characteristic of theistic tolerance that no one really cares what the people believe in, just so they believe or pretend to believe. -- Emma Goldman, The Philosophy of Atheism (1916) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] New idea of usability for Unity
On 21/03/11 12:01, Mitja Pagon wrote: First it's not all about choice, second if application has menus users never use, should that application have menus at all? But that is not a problem that should be solved on a shell level, it's up to applications to improve their interfaces. Surely it *is* the responsibility of any shell developers to clean up the shell, rather than simple expose the bad UI 'choices' of application developers (or rather tool-kit developers). This is precisely what Unity's global-menu does, it exposes the menu toolbar for all applications which support it. This is *not* always appropriate. The menu toolbar is an efficient means of organising a large number of options (though it could be prettier). Which is excellent for applications like LibreOffice where a large number of menu items need (arguably) to be exposed. However for internet browsers, media players and similar applications the menu toolbar often serves as a /locus/ for advanced and rarely used menu options, whilst the more commonly used options are incorporated into the UI proper. Furthermore, Firefox 4.0's 'firefox button' is a very good example of how to fit a lot of menu options into a organised grid exposed by a single button. This, in my view, is a far more efficient means of exposing menus IMHO (it could even be well suited to LibreOffice). This approach has one further advantage for Unity; it merges (if implemented correctly) the application title and the global-menu into a single, compact panel item (a single /locus/ where the end-user can both identify which application is active, and access its menus). Kind Regards, Lee Hyde. -- There is no patent. Could you patent the sun? -- Dr. Jonas Stalk, on being asked who owned the patent for his polio vaccine signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] New idea of usability for Unity
On 21/03/11 13:27, Thorsten Wilms wrote: But having to hit one target to reveal a 2nd level can't compete with having that level directly accessible. (One might see Marking Menus as an exception, where a little training allows blind use.) I've found (and I can only speak for myself here of course) that after a while navigating any vertical menu becomes second nature (or 'blind' use as you put it). As long as the menu button is intelligently positioned (ideally in a corner) the access time should be relatively quick. In my experience, having to scan a horizontal menus slows menu access down for me. In an ideal work, I'd locate application menu access (through a single button solution) in the upper-left corner of the applications window (obviously when maximised that coincides with the upper-left corner of the screen) and I'd locate shell menu/places access (the access the dash) in the lower-left corner of the screen. These are good loci for menu access IMO, simply because an end-user can simply 'throw' the mouse cursor into the corner. Also, oddly enough, I find that I have something of a leftward bias when it comes to mouse navigation, though perhaps that is a hang-up from years of using windows (where the shell/start menu is located to the lower-left). On 21/03/11 13:27, Thorsten Wilms wrote: Furthermore, nested menus may well be the worst common GUI widgets have to offer (even with some tricks to ease selection of sub-menu items, it still tends to be frustrating). In agree that excessive nesting is problematic, if for the simple reason that navigating from the 'parent' menu to the 'child' menu can be rather hot and miss. I far prefer that menus be implemented in a grid type fashion (similar to in the 'firefox button') with nesting used sparingly (and never with adjacent 'nests'). In all, I think the one button menu solution is the way to go. I think it offers a flexibility that traditional menu toolbars simply don't. Not to mention that, from a purely aesthetic stand point, it would reduce the level of clutter in Unity's panel (they're trying to fit *far* to much in that panel!) Anyhow, the above is just my tupence. I have a few ideas along these lines (vis. what my ideal shell would look like) and I may create some mock-ups when I find the time and post them in the hopes that they provide some inspiration to someone, somewhere (somewhen?). :-) Kind Regards, Lee Hyde. -- There is no patent. Could you patent the sun? -- Dr. Jonas Stalk, on being asked who owned the patent for his polio vaccine signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Me Menu, and single user irritation.
On 17/03/11 12:51, Saleel Velankar wrote: I think on single user scenarios, the gconf key to show the name should be toggled to 0 by default. That's a good idea. Though some thought needs to be given as to whether the existence of a guest account should toggle the gconf key back to 1/2 or not. I personally think that, under such circumstances, the user account should default to gconf key 0 (i.e. use me menu's icon-only mode), and the guest account should default to gconf key 1/2 (i.e. show 'guest' in me menu). Regards, Lee. -- I foresee a universal information system (UIS), which will give everyone access at any given moment to the contents of any book that has ever been published or any magazine or any fact. The UIS will have individual miniature-computer terminals, central control points for the flood of information, and communication channels incorporating thousands of artificial communications from satellites, cables, and laser lines. Even the partial realization of the UIS will profoundly affect every person, his leisure activities, and his intellectual and artistic development. But the true historic role of the UIS will be to break down the barriers to the exchange of information among countries and people. -- Andrei Sakharov, Saturday Review/World (August 24th, 1984) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Design problems in general
On 16/03/11 13:01, Thorsten Wilms wrote: If you are not under too tight constraints, the questionshouldn't be how something is being done, not even how users would like to do it, but rather: how should they do it? I thoroughly disagree with this assessment of UI/X design for the following reasons: 1. It flies in the face of Ubuntu's Linux for Humans motto 2. There is a risk of over-intellectualising UI/X design As I see it (and do correct me if I'm wrong) there is a lack of data to support the 'how it should be done' philosophy. How does one arrive at a conclusion of 'how it should be done'? Have there been any mouse tracking or eye tracking studies on the subject? If so did any of them cover the ease with which end-users adapted to UI changes such as the adoption of left-alignment of window controls or UI changes resulting from switching operating systems? Is there any data concerning uptake of packages and/or settings to subvert changes to the UI/X (beyond the mere existence of such packages)? Without such data I fail to see how one could arrive at a conclusive decision regards a UI/X redesign. It would be nice to have some form of opt-in anonymous data gathering package (census?) for precisely this kind of data gathering. Something similar to Mozilla's Test Pilot and LabKit add-ons which could be used to enrol users (which their prior knowledge and ultimate control) in new UI/X studies and prototype/proof-of-concept UI/X designs. Whether you'd get enough participants to make it worth the developers efforts I don't though, although I would certainly participate in any studies and many prototypes on offer. There is of course a place for artistic license, but not at the cost flexibility or at the risk of dictating how the end-user must use their computer. For example, would it really be so terrible to offer the end user options such as positioning of the Unity panel (bottom or top), or positioning of the Unity dock/springboard? Would it be terrible to consider the users upgrade path when designing (or rather setting up) the interface. A lifelong windows user might prefer a bottom-aligned panel and right-aligned window controls to smooth the transition whilst a MacOSX user might prefer precisely the opposite. On 16/03/11 13:01, Thorsten Wilms wrote: Sometimes the problem may be certain users stubbornness rather than anything else, especially if you design for the long term. So the answer may have to be wrapped up in a strategy to sell it. It's not always simply a case of user stubbornness. Speaking from personal experience, the decision to enforce left-alignment of window controls in Unity will have a negative impact on my own work flow. Due to circumstances beyond my control I have little choice but to dual-boot both Ubuntu and Windows. I work within a laboratory environment wherein many proprietary control and data analysis software is reliant on a Windows platform (often legacy). Hence I fund myself having to dual-boot or VM into Windows frequently, to translate and/or manipulate data gathered via laboratory equipment. This is a very jarring experience, and the shift to and fro left-aligned window controls certainly impacts on my efficiency. Of course the above use case is a rather nice scenario, but I am sure than numerous office worker suffer from similarly strict (although for different reasons entirely) IT provisioning that forces them to use Windows in the workplace. Some thought ought to be given to the 'forced to dual-boot' community, as I'm sure it's a sizeable one. The consistency of user experience should be a goal, not only within Ubuntu itself, but throughout the users experience. The Windows platform is unlikely to offer a left-aligned mode, and so it falls to Ubuntu/Unity to offer an (optional) right-aligned mode lest risk vexing their 'forced to dual-boot' user base. As things stand, I will have to forgo Unity in favour of gnome-panel until this particular issue is addressed (assuming it ever will be) but if push comes to shove I will have little choice but to default to Windows (laboratory equipment manufacturers are unlikely to provision Linux based software any time soon) and I can see myself using Ubuntu less and less (which is a shame, as I far prefer it to Windows). -- The second basic thesis is that intellectual freedom is essential to human society — freedom to obtain and distribute information, freedom for open-minded and unfearing debate and freedom from pressure by officialdom and prejudices. Such a trinity of freedom of thought is the only guarantee against an infection of people by mass myths, which, in the hands of treacherous hypocrites and demagogues, can be transformed into bloody dictatorship. Freedom of thought is the only guarantee of the feasibility of a scientific democratic approach to politics, economics and culture. -- Andrei Sakharov, The New York Times (July 22nd, 1968) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [Ayatana] 'Control Center' should be in 'Launcher' not in 'Session Menu'
On 11/03/11 12:39, M. Adnan Quaium wrote: Just got the news from the following link: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/03/ubuntu-natty-adds-control-centre-entry-to-session-menu/ My opinion is - 'Control Center' should be in 'Launcher' not in 'Session Menu'. Actually, Session menu has nothing in common with Control Center! The Control Center should be in launcher. So that people can easily get access to the control center. I think it'll be very difficult to find out for the users that to change the preferences of his desktop he has to go to the Session Menu. Also by placing it on the launcher, it actually saves one click... :) What do you think? -- M. Adnan Quaium Unless of course you're of the opinion (as I am) that the control centre relates to session management/administration. Although I understand for some this could be seen as a bit of a leap. I would certainly accept that there is a justification for including the control centre in the launcher (perhaps as an option). It could be placed with the recycle bin at the bottom of the screen. On 11/03/11 14:21, Kévin PEIGNOT wrote: I agree, maybe even with a dedicated unity-place instead of the traditionnal control center. -- Envoyé depuis gmail, via Firefox 4 sur Ubuntu 10.10 I do like that idea; a means of highlighting administrative applications and separating them from the hoi polloi of the regular applications could be useful. On 11/03/11 13:25, M. Adnan Quaium wrote: Another problem is, there is a chance to click the SHUT DOWN button mistakenly while clicking the CONTROL CENTRE. -- M. Adnan Quaium It was my understanding that such was the reasoning behind the shut-down and restart confirmation dialogues. As an aside, why were similar dialogues for standby and hibernate abandoned. That decision never made much sense to me, and I do hope it's reversed at some point. I can't count the number of times (actually I can, it's 4) that I've accidentally put my computer into standby/hibernation via Docky's session docklet. Regards, Lee Hyde. -- It is characteristic of theistic tolerance that no one really cares what the people believe in, just so they believe or pretend to believe. -- Emma Goldman, The Philosophy of Atheism (1916) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] 'Control Center' should be in 'Launcher' not in 'Session Menu'
On 11/03/11 15:51, M. Adnan Quaium wrote: May be it can be renamed as Desktop Preferences or any suitable name (if it is possible) rather than Control Centre... Changing the name won't change it's unsuitability for the Me Menu. It just doesn't fit there at all. If it must be placed in any indicator menu, whatever the name, the Session Menu is the best fit (though far from perfect). On 11/03/11 15:56, Luke Benstead wrote: Absolutely, the control center doesn't fit at all in any of the indicators (although certain elements of it do). I do actually think one can make a rather good case for a Control Centre within the Session Menu. Although I think it would be far better to include select administrative tools (e.g. Users and Groups) in appropriate indicator menus whilst leaving the remainder exclusively within the Dash. I also rather like Kévin PEIGNOT suggestion of a dedicated Control Centre (or Administrative Tasks) place. On 11/03/11 16:00, Jeremy Nickurak wrote: Bit of stretch maybe, but... Preferences are personal. They're about what you want, as opposed to system defaults, application behavior, or even data. In that sense, there's something inherently me-related to the settings I've selected. That is indeed a bit of a stretch. Though it was as valiant attempt, if ever I've read one, to shoe-horn something into an indicator menu. ;-) By the same token one could merge the Messages Menu into the Me Menu on the grounds that (nominally) are directed towards the end user (the proverbial 'Me'). The Me Menus brief is concerned with online status and identity to wit a Control Centre entry has no relation. The Session Menus brief is a little less clear (to me) but a reasonable interpretation would be that it's concerned with sessions (obviously) and system status (the latter of which could be used to justify the presence of a Control Centre). On 11/03/11 16:50, Conscious User wrote: I agree with the previous proposal of making it a Dash view. The control center is just a categorized set of application shortcuts, exactly what the Dash is optimized to handle. +1 Kind Regards, Lee -- In order to offer someone a financial reward without him working for it, the government must first ensure that somebody else works for a financial reward without getting it. There is no other way. -- Douglas Wilson signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Me Messaging Indicator Menu
On 01/01/11 03:06, frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: Status Text Status text has 2 applications we are trying to address, a problem not solved by the spec as up to now. 1) IM status text aka motto aka custom status 2) Social Stream status message aka tweet aka blog aka status update With regards to the IM status, I would further divide motto and custom status into two separate categories. 1) A *motto* tends to be a quote or phrase used for purposes of self-expression, and as such its infrequently changed. 2) A *custom status* to be a more specific status (e.g. sleeping, gone shopping, etc...) not covered by the standard online, away and busy status messages. I realise of course that in most, if not all instances these two categories are indistinct in that they use the same mechanism/field. However I would suggest that a *motto* field be placed in the *about me* dialogue, and an option to add *custom statuses* such that they would appear alongside the standard statuses in the *me menu*. The *motto* could then be treated as the nominal *IM status*, only being overridden whilst a *custom status* is enacted, and being restored once the *custom status* has been revoked. That way the text field (in the *me menu*) can be used exclusively for *social media statuses* (as it is now, I believe) which tend to be updated a lot more often (when used). As an aside; the ideal solution to *custom statuses* would be if to defined then *as statuses* within the client/protocol itself. That would however require protocol updates to WLM/Yahoo/GTalk which are not likely forthcoming. :( Kind Regards, Lee Hyde. On 01/01/11 01:45, frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Dani, Conscious ;) On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 19:56, Conscious User consciousu...@aol.com mailto:consciousu...@aol.com wrote: Good job getting rid of the clutter, Daniel, but I was a little troubled with the visual inconsistency, so I'm attaching here the mockup of a suggestion to turn both status changing and publishing into submenus. This allows us to be more confortable to add more complexity to the publishing, such as the account selection originally proposed in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeMenu#Use%20cases Le vendredi 31 décembre 2010 à 15:24 +0100, dani a écrit : i made some mockups that i think are a good and simple solution for this problem, i hope you like: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Maverick/redesign_memenu% 26mesagemenu pd: the last mockup i include a control panel option, this pice is redesigned on gnome 3 and i think is a good option to global all user preference options. http://live.gnome.org/Design/SystemSettings I think it's really good to have only one icon for messaging and Presence up in the panel, much tidier, less confusing. Which one will it be now? The envelope doesn't really indicate presence, wouldn't perhaps the speech bubble make sense up there as an indicator icon for the merged menu? I like the mockups very much, they take what's there and just make it work as one, efficient and neat! ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Conceit, arrogance and egotism are the essentials of patriotism. Let me illustrate. Patriotism assumes that our globe is divided into little spots, each one surrounded by an iron gate. Those who have had the fortune of being born on some particular spot consider themselves nobler, better, grander, more intelligent than those living beings inhabiting any other spot. It is, therefore, the duty of everyone living on that chosen spot to fight, kill and die in the attempt to impose his superiority upon all the others. -- Emma Goldman, What is Patriotism? (1908) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
