Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2012-02-01 Thread supernova
Unity's personality, design, imposes that it's on the left...

Il giorno martedì 29 novembre 2011, Christian Rupp  ha
scritto:
> I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it
working:
> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html
>
> Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to activate
option
>
>
>
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Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2012-02-01 Thread Georgi Karavasilev
LOL, not sure Thunderbird send my previous email correctly, so sending it
again :P
_
Well, if you do some mockups for A) and C) it would rock! :)
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Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2012-02-01 Thread Sunil Singh Rana
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 22:07, Georgi Karavasilev wrote:

> Hmm, you kinda missed my point at A) - if the launcher is at the bottom
> the Dash button will go the the bottom left. When on clicks on the Dash the
> control buttons will be on the panel in the top left which requires mouse
> movement to change Dash size or close it (assuming if you cick the close
> button to close it) and will look kinda broken.

I definitely had missed that point. Thanks a ton for clarifying. I have to
get to the drawing sheet and see what possible change could me given to the
design so that, as I mentioned earlier, so that the consistency, including
mouse traveling and other things, is invariant under the rotation of unity.

> As far as B goes - it's true the horizontal scroll bars are not used THAT
> much, but it I believe generally causes less distraction on the left
>
I agree that it causes less distraction on the left but it, in the current
form, increase the odds of hitting and calling it unnecessarily
exponentially because  of the reasons known to all of us.

> And there is C) when the dash button is at bottom left how will be the
> Dash outline position, so both the panel and the Dash have outline. The
> current Unity-rotated applies outline only and the Dash and not to the
> panel and it's doesn't look good :P
>
I agree that is doesn't look good and that is why I think the design of
unity might need a bit of tweaking so that also the beauty of the dash, or
unity in general, remain invariant under the rotation of the left panel.

One thing we could do is, visually free the dash-- the dash, I don't say
the dash button, from the top bar and also from the left panel, make it
more like an independent visually sleek window which  could be outlined,
bordered in the same way as it is now.
:)






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Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2012-01-30 Thread Georgi Karavasilev
Hmm, you kinda missed my point at A) - if the launcher is at the bottom the
Dash button will go the the bottom left. When on clicks on the Dash the
control buttons will be on the panel in the top left which requires mouse
movement to change Dash size or close it (assuming if you cick the close
button to close it) and will look kinda broken.
As far as B goes - it's true the horizontal scrollbars are not used THAT
much, but it I believe generally causes less distraction on the left
And there is C) when the dash button is at bottom left how will be the Dash
outline position, so both the panel and the Dash have outline. The current
Unity-rotated applies outline only and the Dash and not to the panel and
it's doesn't look good :P
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Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2012-01-30 Thread Sunil Singh Rana
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 16:17, Georgi Karavasilev wrote:

> Hmm, there are two major cons with bottom launcher:
> A) The dash control buttons are on the top left (maximaze and close), what
> happens when the Ubuntu buttom is at the bottom left and those buttons on
> the top left?
>
Just like it happen with other applications. when not maximized it remains
on the dash itself and when maximized it goes to the top left corner.

> B) Due to the fact that launcher is set to "Dodge windows" out of the box
> users may invoke the launcher instead of the bottom scrollbar by accident
> (when the launcher is no set to "Always visible")
>
I personally rarely use the bottom, that is horizontal, scroll bar and most
applications, again according to my personal experience, doesn't use bottom
area for the clickable buttons that are to be clicked too often.

I had always had global menu on the top panel and the cairo dock at the
bottom set to dodge the windows. I don't remember myself getting annoyed
for dock showing unnecessarily as an uninvited guest. I guess, I didn't had
to bring my pointer too close to the bottom edge as I have to bring it to
the left edge.

If I am sounding too illogical please forgive my ignorance.

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Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2012-01-30 Thread Georgi Karavasilev
Hmm, there are two major cons with bottom launcher:
A) The dash control buttons are on the top left (maximaze and close), what
happens when the Ubuntu buttom is at the bottom left and those buttons on
the top left?
B) Due to the fact that launcher is set to "Dodge windows" out of the box
users may invoke the launcher instead of the bottom scrollbar by accident
(when the launcher is no set to "Always visible")
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Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2012-01-26 Thread Petko

On 01/26/2012 07:13 PM, Sunil Singh Rana wrote:

Dear friends,
   Discussion on the bottom unity seem to have stuck.
Here in this mail I present my experience with the users who used 
ubuntu first time. Be it that I installed it on their computer or they 
uses it on my computer, each of them, yes without an exception, had 
trouble with the left side panel showing as an uninvited guest, and it 
really annoyed them just as it annoy me some time.


I reread all the mails in the thread and I think we need to ask 
ourselves questions about the current design.
1) Why do we want the launcher on the left, is it only to save the 
vertical space or there is more to it?
 To give some more meaning to the left positioning - the system menu 
(shut down etc) is on the right . Donno if you had to choose a side what 
would have you chosen ? I just think it's the best choice , not by much 
, but the bes one
2) What is the philosophy behind the current design. I think Swapnil 
had some important things about the design of unity. I think we need 
to clearly note down the philosophy behind the current design. This 
question is important. The sense I got from the above discussion is 
that the current design tries to give value to the word unity by 
unifying the left launcher, dash and the top panel. If that is the 
only intent, I am sure we can have some better, more symmetric design 
which preserves the philosophy of the design ( this is what I call 
unifying) under the position changing of the left panel.
3) Do we actually believe that we can pave our way through the 
ecosystem where apps assume left edge free of panels, and force them 
to write applications optimized for unity look.
Well I believe that right positioning (that is available in oneiric) 
solves that problem .
4) One of the main thing in the design should be to minimize the 
number of steps and/or mouse traversal distance to do the intended 
action. I think the position of lenses at the bottom of dash increases 
the mouse travel in comparison to have them below the search bar.



I personally think.

Having the Dash in the center of the screen, leaving space on all the 
sides when not maximized is more symmetric.
Yes , but you just said about saving mouse movement -> // maybe make the 
fullscreen dash the centered version you're thinking about ,and making 
unity remember if the dash was maximized or not (so that if you want to 
use it only maximized you don't have to do it on every opening).
To give a unified look we also could give the dash a visual 3D effect 
to visualize it out of the desktop, connect the corners of the screen 
with the corners of the dash thus giving it a box like look. whose 
five faces are visible and desktop as the bottom face. its just an 
Idea. I am sure people have better ideas to give a unified look.


I hope I made myself clear enough to understand.

I attached a image to demonstrate that how difficult can it be to use 
the kind of app in the image which has so much clickable area along 
the left edge.


Thanks to all of you.


Overall I'm pro more configuration options thus pro having the ability 
to put Unity at the bottom . I think it would be nice and since the dash 
is an icon now ,it wouldn't be a problem .


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Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2012-01-26 Thread Carl Ansell

Wont be added for the LTS as it would add too much new and potentially unstable 
code, might afterwards though.


Have you considered changing the panel reveal area to the top left corner (Like 
it was in Natty)?



Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 18:13:37 +0100
From: sunil.r...@gmail.com
To: davor.bu...@gmail.com
CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

Dear friends,   Discussion on the bottom unity seem to have 
stuck.Here in this mail I present my experience with the users who used ubuntu 
first time. Be it that I installed it on their computer or they uses it on my 
computer, each of them, yes without an exception, had trouble with the left 
side panel showing as an uninvited guest, and it really annoyed them just as it 
annoy me some time.




I reread all the mails in the thread and I think we need to ask ourselves 
questions about the current design. 1) Why do we want the launcher on the left, 
is it only to save the vertical space or there is more to it?



2) What is the philosophy behind the current design. I think Swapnil had some 
important things about the design of unity. I think we need to clearly note 
down the philosophy behind the current design. This question is important. The 
sense I got from the above discussion is that the current design tries to give 
value to the word unity by unifying the left launcher, dash and the top panel. 
If that is the only intent, I am sure we can have some better, more symmetric 
design which preserves the philosophy of the design ( this is what I call 
unifying) under the position changing of the left panel.


3) Do we actually believe that we can pave our way through the ecosystem where 
apps assume left edge free of panels, and force them to write applications 
optimized for unity look. 4) One of the main thing in the design should be to 
minimize the number of steps and/or mouse traversal distance to do the intended 
action. I think the position of lenses at the bottom of dash increases the 
mouse travel in comparison to have them below the search bar.



I personally think.
Having the Dash in the center of the screen, leaving space on all the sides 
when not maximized is more symmetric.To give a unified look we also could give 
the dash a visual 3D effect to visualize it out of the desktop, connect the 
corners of the screen with the corners of the dash thus giving it a box like 
look. whose five faces are visible and desktop as the bottom face. its just an 
Idea. I am sure people have better ideas to give a unified look. 


I hope I made myself clear enough to understand.
I attached a image to demonstrate that how difficult can it be to use the kind 
of app in the image which has so much clickable area along the left edge.

Thanks to all of you. 



On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 23:29, Davor  wrote:




Dana Thu, 01 Dec 2011 22:15:12 +0100, Ryan Gauger  
napisao/napisala je:

> It does give more customization to users. I understood what Shuttleworth




> said about why Unity wasn't more customizable in Natty: because it was a
> 1.0. But now that it's not a total 1.0 anymore, why not add some more
> customization like being able to choose the position of the launcher? I




> also like the idea that it could also be on the right side of the  
> screen.

I absolutely agree - easier to use (for right handed too) - window controls in 
well known place




 A
> lot of people reading this might be thinking "What about indicators?"  
> Well,
> they could be moved over a bit, or just stay where they are, since the  
> Dash

> Home button is not on the top panel anymore. Good thinking, Christian!
>
> ---Ryan
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Christian Rupp   




> wrote:
>
>>  I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it
>> working:
>> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html




>>
>> Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to  
>> activate
>> option
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>


-- Davor Buday
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-- 
सुनील राणा

"Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it."

" 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can 
not. Love is an attribute of the absolute."







__

Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2011-12-01 Thread Davor
Dana Thu, 01 Dec 2011 22:15:12 +0100, Ryan Gauger  napisao/napisala je:> It does give more customization to users. I understood what Shuttleworth> said about why Unity wasn't more customizable in Natty: because it was a> 1.0. But now that it's not a total 1.0 anymore, why not add some more> customization like being able to choose the position of the launcher? I> also like the idea that it could also be on the right side of the  > screen.I absolutely agree - easier to use (for right handed too) - window controls in well known place A> lot of people reading this might be thinking "What about indicators?"  > Well,> they could be moved over a bit, or just stay where they are, since the  > Dash> Home button is not on the top panel anymore. Good thinking, Christian!>> ---Ryan>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Christian Rupp   > wrote:>>>  I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it>> working:>> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to  >> activate>> option ___>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana>> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp-- Davor Buday___
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Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2011-12-01 Thread Ryan Gauger
It does give more customization to users. I understood what Shuttleworth
said about why Unity wasn't more customizable in Natty: because it was a
1.0. But now that it's not a total 1.0 anymore, why not add some more
customization like being able to choose the position of the launcher? I
also like the idea that it could also be on the right side of the screen. A
lot of people reading this might be thinking "What about indicators?" Well,
they could be moved over a bit, or just stay where they are, since the Dash
Home button is not on the top panel anymore. Good thinking, Christian!

---Ryan

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Christian Rupp  wrote:

>  I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it
> working:
> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html
>
> Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to activate
> option
>
>
>
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> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
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>
>
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Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2011-12-01 Thread Omar B .

we are discussing the menu on unmaximized windows on this bug:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/682788

Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 00:43:55 +0100
Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
From: sunil.r...@gmail.com
To: isan...@gmail.com
CC: estela...@hotmail.com; ayatana@lists.launchpad.net

Sorry I think I didn't make myself clear enough.About the circular button I 
meat the circular shape of the buttons. I think their design being circular is 
not consistent with the rest of the design of the unity. Which has more 
squarish throughout.


I agree with the global menu bar for maximized window is a great idea; but the 
point I raised was for non-maximized windows. Its nice to have the windows 
control available on the ( un-maximized) window it self; but for the windows 
menu one still have to traverse the mouse pointer to the top bar.
I think it would be better to have windows menu also on the (un-maximized) 
window itself.
I got the idea of the design.

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 23:18, Ian Santopietro  wrote:

> So far consistency is concerned I never felt that the circular windows> 
> controls consistent with any part of unity.




They're used to control the dash. You can't make the Dash full screen

without them.



They integrate the window controls into the panel for maximized

windows because they integrate the menu bar and title bar into the top

panel. Doing this saves nearly 50 pixels of vertical screen real

estate, which is nice on large monitors, and huge on smaller screens

like netbooks. Giving the Dash window controls simply makes it more

consistent with the rest of Unity.



Transparent panels blend in with the dash, and make it feel more like

an extension of the panel and launcher, which it is. With the dash

open and full screen, it feels like a single sheet draped over the

screen since everything blends together seamlessly. Visually, it's

very pleasing.

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 13:44, Sunil Singh Rana  wrote:

>

>

> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 18:05, Ian Santopietro  wrote:

>>

>> I mean that the panel is now disconnected from the rest of Unity. With the

>> panel at the bottom, there's no reason for the panel to turn transparent.

>> There's no reason for the Dash's window controls to be in the panel. Having

>> the launcher on the left side is important, because without that, several

>> other points in unity simply don't make any sense.

>

>

> Hi,

>May I please request to make those several other points of

> Unity more clear.

> Please forgive my ignorance.

>

> I agree that there in no reason for the window controls to be in the panel.

> I personally think there is no reason for any window that is not maximized

> to have controls and menus on the top panel. It makes unnecessary mouse

> travels; though I can understand it might me useful for small form factors.

>

> I also never understood the philosophy behind making panels transparent when

> dash is called -- please forgive my ignorance once again.

>

> So far consistency is concerned I never felt that the circular windows

> controls consistent with any part of unity.

>

> Personally I don't know much of advantages of having panel in left apart

> from having more vertical space. But I see the challenges it presents to

> make a consistent design.

>

>

>> On Nov 30, 2011 8:16 AM, "Omar B."  wrote:

>>>

>>> what do you mean "it doesnt work"?

>>>

>>> you just looked at the first screen and havent tried it.

>>>

>>> here are more screens:

>>>

>>> http://forum.ubuntu.ru/index.php?topic=171694.0

>>>

>>>

>>> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/how-to-move-unity-launcher-to-bottom-of.html

>>>

>>> but its still in dev of course.

>>>

>>>

>>> > From: isan...@gmail.com

>>> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:04:03 -0700

>>> > To: sunil.r...@gmail.com

>>> > CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net

>>> > Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

>>> >

>>> > What happens to the top panel with the launcher at the bottom? What

>>> > about the Dash window controls? Without sticking the top panel on the

>>> > left, I don't see how this design works.

>>> >

>>> > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:01, Sunil Singh Rana 

>>> > wrote:

>>> > > I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain

>>> > > consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really

>>> > > see much

>>> > > philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why

>>

Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2011-12-01 Thread Sunil Singh Rana
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 15:21, Gino Vincenzini wrote:

> I understand what people are saying but I agree that it makes little sense
> to try desperately to preserve the vertical space by sticking the launcher
> on the left side in an app ecosystem designed for the launcher or dock to
> be at the bottom.
>
Very well said. Thanks for putting it so clearly.


> If that be the case then the reasons that integrate the menu bar with the
> launcher are no longer relevant, because why the launcher should be on the
> side in the first place is a fundamental idea. Honestly I think the best
> way to handle that is to default to the bottom, allow some cool integration
> when on the left side and let the user pick in the settings. But that's
> just my opinion.
> On Dec 1, 2011 4:11 AM, "Sunil Singh Rana"  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 05:18, Ian Santopietro  wrote:
>>
>>> Many Apps also use the bottom and right edges too. Totem, for example.
>>>
>>
>> Agree. Specially the right side is always used by scroll bar of the
>> application. Totems still have one bar, which mention time, in between. But
>> the back arrow of the browser, one of the most use apps, is too close to
>> the left bar. Quite some web-interfaces, Gmail for example,  also have a
>> lot of links very close to left edge.
>> I hope I made it clear. Left side panel will remain annoying unless we
>> come up with a well thought out mouse gesture to call the panel.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>  On Nov 29, 2011 6:02 PM, "Sunil Singh Rana" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hello Friends,
 I hope all of you are having fun. :)

 Saving the vertical space could be a founding block, but a foundation
 should be consistent with all the foundations. we can't ignore the fact
 that most application uses the space close to left edge for navigation
 within itself; for example: back button of a browser. It is normal that
 launcher on the left will keep appearing as an uninvited guest and shall
 keep annoying. I wonder how many user actually notices the more vertical
 space available to them but I am sure many of them get annoyed with this
 unnecessary revelation of the launcher. Secondly, the top left corner
 becomes a problem to give a consistent design.

 It is difficult to take a completely new approach, take it as an axiom
 and, at the same time, fit it to the traditional approaches which are built
 on completely different set of axiom.

  I think -- I might be wrong -- most application assumes that the
 launcher would be at the bottom and this leaves the bottom side free from
 any button.

 We really need to focus on consistency and universality of the
 experience. I think these things has added plenty to the success of mac.

 On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 19:54, Chad M/ Germann wrote:

> On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 18:31 +0100, Swapnil Bhartiya wrote:
> > On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote:
> > > I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got
> it working:
> > >
> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html
> >
> > That's not a very good design. The whole point of unity was to save
> > vertical space and use horizontal space. This is quite opposite,
> leaving
> > even lesser space. Instead a thinner bottom panel like LinuxMint 12
> may
> > be more 'practical' where users can see running apps and switch
> easily.
>
> that may be the case but it eliminates the strict "It mist be this way"
> fascism that unity currently represents.
>
>
>
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 --
 सुनील राणा

 "Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to
 practice it."

 " 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you'
 love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute."

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>>
>>
>> --
>> सुनील राणा
>>
>> "Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to
>> practice it."
>>
>> " 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you'
>> love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute."
>>
>> ___
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>


-- 
सुनील राणा

"Unselfishness is m

Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2011-12-01 Thread Gino Vincenzini
I understand what people are saying but I agree that it makes little sense
to try desperately to preserve the vertical space by sticking the launcher
on the left side in an app ecosystem designed for the launcher or dock to
be at the bottom. If that be the case then the reasons that integrate the
menu bar with the launcher are no longer relevant, because why the launcher
should be on the side in the first place is a fundamental idea. Honestly I
think the best way to handle that is to default to the bottom, allow some
cool integration when on the left side and let the user pick in the
settings. But that's just my opinion.
On Dec 1, 2011 4:11 AM, "Sunil Singh Rana"  wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 05:18, Ian Santopietro  wrote:
>
>> Many Apps also use the bottom and right edges too. Totem, for example.
>>
>
> Agree. Specially the right side is always used by scroll bar of the
> application. Totems still have one bar, which mention time, in between. But
> the back arrow of the browser, one of the most use apps, is too close to
> the left bar. Quite some web-interfaces, Gmail for example,  also have a
> lot of links very close to left edge.
> I hope I made it clear. Left side panel will remain annoying unless we
> come up with a well thought out mouse gesture to call the panel.
>
>
>
>
>
>>  On Nov 29, 2011 6:02 PM, "Sunil Singh Rana" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Friends,
>>> I hope all of you are having fun. :)
>>>
>>> Saving the vertical space could be a founding block, but a foundation
>>> should be consistent with all the foundations. we can't ignore the fact
>>> that most application uses the space close to left edge for navigation
>>> within itself; for example: back button of a browser. It is normal that
>>> launcher on the left will keep appearing as an uninvited guest and shall
>>> keep annoying. I wonder how many user actually notices the more vertical
>>> space available to them but I am sure many of them get annoyed with this
>>> unnecessary revelation of the launcher. Secondly, the top left corner
>>> becomes a problem to give a consistent design.
>>>
>>> It is difficult to take a completely new approach, take it as an axiom
>>> and, at the same time, fit it to the traditional approaches which are built
>>> on completely different set of axiom.
>>>
>>>  I think -- I might be wrong -- most application assumes that the
>>> launcher would be at the bottom and this leaves the bottom side free from
>>> any button.
>>>
>>> We really need to focus on consistency and universality of the
>>> experience. I think these things has added plenty to the success of mac.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 19:54, Chad M/ Germann wrote:
>>>
 On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 18:31 +0100, Swapnil Bhartiya wrote:
 > On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote:
 > > I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it
 working:
 > >
 http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html
 >
 > That's not a very good design. The whole point of unity was to save
 > vertical space and use horizontal space. This is quite opposite,
 leaving
 > even lesser space. Instead a thinner bottom panel like LinuxMint 12
 may
 > be more 'practical' where users can see running apps and switch
 easily.

 that may be the case but it eliminates the strict "It mist be this way"
 fascism that unity currently represents.



 ___
 Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
 Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
 Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
 More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> सुनील राणा
>>>
>>> "Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to
>>> practice it."
>>>
>>> " 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you'
>>> love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute."
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>>> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> सुनील राणा
>
> "Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to
> practice it."
>
> " 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you'
> love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute."
>
> ___
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
___
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
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Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2011-12-01 Thread Sunil Singh Rana
On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 05:18, Ian Santopietro  wrote:

> Many Apps also use the bottom and right edges too. Totem, for example.
>

Agree. Specially the right side is always used by scroll bar of the
application. Totems still have one bar, which mention time, in between. But
the back arrow of the browser, one of the most use apps, is too close to
the left bar. Quite some web-interfaces, Gmail for example,  also have a
lot of links very close to left edge.
I hope I made it clear. Left side panel will remain annoying unless we come
up with a well thought out mouse gesture to call the panel.





> On Nov 29, 2011 6:02 PM, "Sunil Singh Rana"  wrote:
>
>> Hello Friends,
>> I hope all of you are having fun. :)
>>
>> Saving the vertical space could be a founding block, but a foundation
>> should be consistent with all the foundations. we can't ignore the fact
>> that most application uses the space close to left edge for navigation
>> within itself; for example: back button of a browser. It is normal that
>> launcher on the left will keep appearing as an uninvited guest and shall
>> keep annoying. I wonder how many user actually notices the more vertical
>> space available to them but I am sure many of them get annoyed with this
>> unnecessary revelation of the launcher. Secondly, the top left corner
>> becomes a problem to give a consistent design.
>>
>> It is difficult to take a completely new approach, take it as an axiom
>> and, at the same time, fit it to the traditional approaches which are built
>> on completely different set of axiom.
>>
>>  I think -- I might be wrong -- most application assumes that the
>> launcher would be at the bottom and this leaves the bottom side free from
>> any button.
>>
>> We really need to focus on consistency and universality of the
>> experience. I think these things has added plenty to the success of mac.
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 19:54, Chad M/ Germann wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 18:31 +0100, Swapnil Bhartiya wrote:
>>> > On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote:
>>> > > I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it
>>> working:
>>> > >
>>> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html
>>> >
>>> > That's not a very good design. The whole point of unity was to save
>>> > vertical space and use horizontal space. This is quite opposite,
>>> leaving
>>> > even lesser space. Instead a thinner bottom panel like LinuxMint 12 may
>>> > be more 'practical' where users can see running apps and switch easily.
>>>
>>> that may be the case but it eliminates the strict "It mist be this way"
>>> fascism that unity currently represents.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>>> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> सुनील राणा
>>
>> "Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to
>> practice it."
>>
>> " 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you'
>> love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute."
>>
>> ___
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>


-- 
सुनील राणा

"Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice
it."

" 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love
can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute."
___
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp


Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2011-11-30 Thread Roland Taylor

On 11/29/2011 02:54 PM, Chad M/ Germann wrote:

On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 18:31 +0100, Swapnil Bhartiya wrote:

On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote:

I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working:
http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html

That's not a very good design. The whole point of unity was to save
vertical space and use horizontal space. This is quite opposite, leaving
even lesser space. Instead a thinner bottom panel like LinuxMint 12 may
be more 'practical' where users can see running apps and switch easily.

that may be the case but it eliminates the strict "It mist be this way"
fascism that unity currently represents.



___
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp


Give this man a beer!

___
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
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More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp


Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2011-11-30 Thread Ian Santopietro
But I never mentioned non-maximized windows at all. My argument
pertained to the dash.

On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 16:43, Sunil Singh Rana  wrote:
> Sorry I think I didn't make myself clear enough.
> About the circular button I meat the circular shape of the buttons. I think
> their design being circular is not consistent with the rest of the design of
> the unity. Which has more squarish throughout.
>
> I agree with the global menu bar for maximized window is a great idea; but
> the point I raised was for non-maximized windows. Its nice to have the
> windows control available on the ( un-maximized) window it self; but for the
> windows menu one still have to traverse the mouse pointer to the top bar.
> I think it would be better to have windows menu also on the (un-maximized)
> window itself.
>
> I got the idea of the design.
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 23:18, Ian Santopietro  wrote:
>>
>> > So far consistency is concerned I never felt that the circular windows>
>> > controls consistent with any part of unity.
>>
>> They're used to control the dash. You can't make the Dash full screen
>> without them.
>>
>> They integrate the window controls into the panel for maximized
>> windows because they integrate the menu bar and title bar into the top
>> panel. Doing this saves nearly 50 pixels of vertical screen real
>> estate, which is nice on large monitors, and huge on smaller screens
>> like netbooks. Giving the Dash window controls simply makes it more
>> consistent with the rest of Unity.
>>
>> Transparent panels blend in with the dash, and make it feel more like
>> an extension of the panel and launcher, which it is. With the dash
>> open and full screen, it feels like a single sheet draped over the
>> screen since everything blends together seamlessly. Visually, it's
>> very pleasing.
>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 13:44, Sunil Singh Rana 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 18:05, Ian Santopietro 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I mean that the panel is now disconnected from the rest of Unity. With
>> >> the
>> >> panel at the bottom, there's no reason for the panel to turn
>> >> transparent.
>> >> There's no reason for the Dash's window controls to be in the panel.
>> >> Having
>> >> the launcher on the left side is important, because without that,
>> >> several
>> >> other points in unity simply don't make any sense.
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >                May I please request to make those several other points
>> > of
>> > Unity more clear.
>> > Please forgive my ignorance.
>> >
>> > I agree that there in no reason for the window controls to be in the
>> > panel.
>> > I personally think there is no reason for any window that is not
>> > maximized
>> > to have controls and menus on the top panel. It makes unnecessary mouse
>> > travels; though I can understand it might me useful for small form
>> > factors.
>> >
>> > I also never understood the philosophy behind making panels transparent
>> > when
>> > dash is called -- please forgive my ignorance once again.
>> >
>> > So far consistency is concerned I never felt that the circular windows
>> > controls consistent with any part of unity.
>> >
>> > Personally I don't know much of advantages of having panel in left apart
>> > from having more vertical space. But I see the challenges it presents to
>> > make a consistent design.
>> >
>> >
>> >> On Nov 30, 2011 8:16 AM, "Omar B."  wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> what do you mean "it doesnt work"?
>> >>>
>> >>> you just looked at the first screen and havent tried it.
>> >>>
>> >>> here are more screens:
>> >>>
>> >>> http://forum.ubuntu.ru/index.php?topic=171694.0
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/how-to-move-unity-launcher-to-bottom-of.html
>> >>>
>> >>> but its still in dev of course.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> > From: isan...@gmail.com
>> >>> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:04:03 -0700
>> >>> > To: sunil.r...@gmail.com
>> >>> > CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
>> >>> > Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
>&g

Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2011-11-30 Thread Sunil Singh Rana
Sorry I think I didn't make myself clear enough.
About the circular button I meat the circular shape of the buttons. I think
their design being circular is not consistent with the rest of the design
of the unity. Which has more squarish throughout.

I agree with the global menu bar for maximized window is a great idea; but
the point I raised was for non-maximized windows. Its nice to have the
windows control available on the ( un-maximized) window it self; but for
the windows menu one still have to traverse the mouse pointer to the top
bar.
I think it would be better to have windows menu also on the (un-maximized)
window itself.

I got the idea of the design.


On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 23:18, Ian Santopietro  wrote:

> > So far consistency is concerned I never felt that the circular windows>
> controls consistent with any part of unity.
>
> They're used to control the dash. You can't make the Dash full screen
> without them.
>
> They integrate the window controls into the panel for maximized
> windows because they integrate the menu bar and title bar into the top
> panel. Doing this saves nearly 50 pixels of vertical screen real
> estate, which is nice on large monitors, and huge on smaller screens
> like netbooks. Giving the Dash window controls simply makes it more
> consistent with the rest of Unity.
>
> Transparent panels blend in with the dash, and make it feel more like
> an extension of the panel and launcher, which it is. With the dash
> open and full screen, it feels like a single sheet draped over the
> screen since everything blends together seamlessly. Visually, it's
> very pleasing.
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 13:44, Sunil Singh Rana 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 18:05, Ian Santopietro 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I mean that the panel is now disconnected from the rest of Unity. With
> the
> >> panel at the bottom, there's no reason for the panel to turn
> transparent.
> >> There's no reason for the Dash's window controls to be in the panel.
> Having
> >> the launcher on the left side is important, because without that,
> several
> >> other points in unity simply don't make any sense.
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> >May I please request to make those several other points of
> > Unity more clear.
> > Please forgive my ignorance.
> >
> > I agree that there in no reason for the window controls to be in the
> panel.
> > I personally think there is no reason for any window that is not
> maximized
> > to have controls and menus on the top panel. It makes unnecessary mouse
> > travels; though I can understand it might me useful for small form
> factors.
> >
> > I also never understood the philosophy behind making panels transparent
> when
> > dash is called -- please forgive my ignorance once again.
> >
> > So far consistency is concerned I never felt that the circular windows
> > controls consistent with any part of unity.
> >
> > Personally I don't know much of advantages of having panel in left apart
> > from having more vertical space. But I see the challenges it presents to
> > make a consistent design.
> >
> >
> >> On Nov 30, 2011 8:16 AM, "Omar B."  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> what do you mean "it doesnt work"?
> >>>
> >>> you just looked at the first screen and havent tried it.
> >>>
> >>> here are more screens:
> >>>
> >>> http://forum.ubuntu.ru/index.php?topic=171694.0
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/how-to-move-unity-launcher-to-bottom-of.html
> >>>
> >>> but its still in dev of course.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> > From: isan...@gmail.com
> >>> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:04:03 -0700
> >>> > To: sunil.r...@gmail.com
> >>> > CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> >>> > Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
> >>> >
> >>> > What happens to the top panel with the launcher at the bottom? What
> >>> > about the Dash window controls? Without sticking the top panel on the
> >>> > left, I don't see how this design works.
> >>> >
> >>> > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:01, Sunil Singh Rana <
> sunil.r...@gmail.com>
> >>> > wrote:
> >>> > > I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain
> >>> > > consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really
> >>> > > see

Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2011-11-30 Thread Ian Santopietro
> So far consistency is concerned I never felt that the circular windows> 
> controls consistent with any part of unity.

They're used to control the dash. You can't make the Dash full screen
without them.

They integrate the window controls into the panel for maximized
windows because they integrate the menu bar and title bar into the top
panel. Doing this saves nearly 50 pixels of vertical screen real
estate, which is nice on large monitors, and huge on smaller screens
like netbooks. Giving the Dash window controls simply makes it more
consistent with the rest of Unity.

Transparent panels blend in with the dash, and make it feel more like
an extension of the panel and launcher, which it is. With the dash
open and full screen, it feels like a single sheet draped over the
screen since everything blends together seamlessly. Visually, it's
very pleasing.
On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 13:44, Sunil Singh Rana  wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 18:05, Ian Santopietro  wrote:
>>
>> I mean that the panel is now disconnected from the rest of Unity. With the
>> panel at the bottom, there's no reason for the panel to turn transparent.
>> There's no reason for the Dash's window controls to be in the panel. Having
>> the launcher on the left side is important, because without that, several
>> other points in unity simply don't make any sense.
>
>
> Hi,
>                May I please request to make those several other points of
> Unity more clear.
> Please forgive my ignorance.
>
> I agree that there in no reason for the window controls to be in the panel.
> I personally think there is no reason for any window that is not maximized
> to have controls and menus on the top panel. It makes unnecessary mouse
> travels; though I can understand it might me useful for small form factors.
>
> I also never understood the philosophy behind making panels transparent when
> dash is called -- please forgive my ignorance once again.
>
> So far consistency is concerned I never felt that the circular windows
> controls consistent with any part of unity.
>
> Personally I don't know much of advantages of having panel in left apart
> from having more vertical space. But I see the challenges it presents to
> make a consistent design.
>
>
>> On Nov 30, 2011 8:16 AM, "Omar B."  wrote:
>>>
>>> what do you mean "it doesnt work"?
>>>
>>> you just looked at the first screen and havent tried it.
>>>
>>> here are more screens:
>>>
>>> http://forum.ubuntu.ru/index.php?topic=171694.0
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/how-to-move-unity-launcher-to-bottom-of.html
>>>
>>> but its still in dev of course.
>>>
>>>
>>> > From: isan...@gmail.com
>>> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:04:03 -0700
>>> > To: sunil.r...@gmail.com
>>> > CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
>>> > Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
>>> >
>>> > What happens to the top panel with the launcher at the bottom? What
>>> > about the Dash window controls? Without sticking the top panel on the
>>> > left, I don't see how this design works.
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:01, Sunil Singh Rana 
>>> > wrote:
>>> > > I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain
>>> > > consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really
>>> > > see much
>>> > > philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why
>>> > > the top
>>> > > panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent visual effect
>>> > > when
>>> > > dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows itself in the
>>> > > center of
>>> > > the screen, without blocking the menus and controls of the previous
>>> > > in-focus
>>> > > application. In the later case, I would be able to drag and drop from
>>> > > the
>>> > > dash to any side of the screen, and the design would look more
>>> > > symmetric.
>>> > >
>>> > > Sunil
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 18:45, Swapnil Bhartiya
>>> > > 
>>> > > wrote:
>>> > >>
>>> > >> On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote:
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it
>>> > >>

Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2011-11-30 Thread Sunil Singh Rana
On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 18:05, Ian Santopietro  wrote:

> I mean that the panel is now disconnected from the rest of Unity. With the
> panel at the bottom, there's no reason for the panel to turn transparent.
> There's no reason for the Dash's window controls to be in the panel. Having
> the launcher on the left side is important, because without that, several
> other points in unity simply don't make any sense.
>

Hi,
   May I please request to make those several other points of
Unity more clear.
Please forgive my ignorance.

I agree that there in no reason for the window controls to be in the panel.
I personally think there is no reason for any window that is not maximized
to have controls and menus on the top panel. It makes unnecessary mouse
travels; though I can understand it might me useful for small form factors.

I also never understood the philosophy behind making panels transparent
when dash is called -- please forgive my ignorance once again.

So far consistency is concerned I never felt that the circular windows
controls consistent with any part of unity.

Personally I don't know much of advantages of having panel in left apart
from having more vertical space. But I see the challenges it presents to
make a consistent design.


On Nov 30, 2011 8:16 AM, "Omar B."  wrote:
>
>>  what do you mean "it doesnt work"?
>>
>> you just looked at the first screen and havent tried it.
>>
>> here are more screens:
>>
>> http://forum.ubuntu.ru/index.php?topic=171694.0
>>
>>
>> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/how-to-move-unity-launcher-to-bottom-of.html
>>
>> but its still in dev of course.
>>
>>
>> > From: isan...@gmail.com
>> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:04:03 -0700
>> > To: sunil.r...@gmail.com
>> > CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
>> > Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
>> >
>> > What happens to the top panel with the launcher at the bottom? What
>> > about the Dash window controls? Without sticking the top panel on the
>> > left, I don't see how this design works.
>> >
>> > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:01, Sunil Singh Rana 
>> wrote:
>> > > I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain
>> > > consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really
>> see much
>> > > philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why
>> the top
>> > > panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent visual effect
>> when
>> > > dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows itself in the
>> center of
>> > > the screen, without blocking the menus and controls of the previous
>> in-focus
>> > > application. In the later case, I would be able to drag and drop from
>> the
>> > > dash to any side of the screen, and the design would look more
>> symmetric.
>> > >
>> > > Sunil
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 18:45, Swapnil Bhartiya <
>> swapnil.bhart...@gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it
>> > >>> working:
>> > >>>
>> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to
>> > >>> activate option
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On second thoughts I believe, it's a good idea (gives some
>> customisation
>> > >> to users). Once at the bottom it will be just like Apple Mac's dock.
>> A good
>> > >> thing may be the option to place the launcher anywhere you want -
>> left/right
>> > >> or bottom.
>> > >>
>> > >> swapnil
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> ___
>> > >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>> > >> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
>> > >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>> > >> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > सुनील राणा
>> > >
>> > > "Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the pati

Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2011-11-30 Thread Omar B .

Yes since this is unofficial, some elements are less tight but users wanting 
the launcher at the bottom are not picky and many dont even give any thought to 
the things you pointed out. Still i must credit the individual that managed to 
make this different setup usable, which has been asked for many, despite his 
limited time and resources.

Anyway IMHO the official design of unity is going to keep changing and some 
things are going to get dropped/added, specially since they want an interface 
for a wide range of devices.

I for one think it will need to allow more *flexibility* if it wants to succeed 
in all these areas and for some many different type of users / devices.

Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 10:05:42 -0700
Subject: RE: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
From: isan...@gmail.com
To: estela...@hotmail.com
CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net; sunil.r...@gmail.com

I mean that the panel is now disconnected from the rest of Unity. With the 
panel at the bottom, there's no reason for the panel to turn transparent. 
There's no reason for the Dash's window controls to be in the panel. Having the 
launcher on the left side is important, because without that, several other 
points in unity simply don't make any sense.

On Nov 30, 2011 8:16 AM, "Omar B."  wrote:






what do you mean "it doesnt work"?

you just looked at the first screen and havent tried it.

here are more screens:

http://forum.ubuntu.ru/index.php?topic=171694.0


http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/how-to-move-unity-launcher-to-bottom-of.html

but its still in dev of course.



> From: isan...@gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:04:03 -0700
> To: sunil.r...@gmail.com

> CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
> 
> What happens to the top panel with the launcher at the bottom? What

> about the Dash window controls? Without sticking the top panel on the
> left, I don't see how this design works.
> 
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:01, Sunil Singh Rana  wrote:

> > I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain
> > consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really see much
> > philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why the top

> > panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent visual effect when
> > dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows itself in the center of
> > the screen, without blocking the menus and controls of the previous in-focus

> > application. In the later case, I would be able to drag and drop from the
> > dash to any side of the screen, and the design would look more symmetric.
> >
> > Sunil
> >
> >

> > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 18:45, Swapnil Bhartiya 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote:

> >>>
> >>> I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it
> >>> working:
> >>> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html

> >>>
> >>> Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to
> >>> activate option
> >>
> >>
> >> On second thoughts I believe, it's a good idea (gives some customisation

> >> to users). Once at the bottom it will be just like Apple Mac's dock. A good
> >> thing may be the option to place the launcher anywhere you want - 
> >> left/right
> >> or bottom.
> >>

> >> swapnil
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana

> >> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana

> >> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > सुनील राणा

> >
> > "Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice
> > it."
> >
> > " 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love

> > can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute."
> >
> > ___
> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana

> > Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana

> > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ian Santopietro
> 
> Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.

> See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> 
> "Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast
>  Ofer middangeard monnum sended"

> 
> Pa 

Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2011-11-30 Thread Ian Santopietro
I mean that the panel is now disconnected from the rest of Unity. With the
panel at the bottom, there's no reason for the panel to turn transparent.
There's no reason for the Dash's window controls to be in the panel. Having
the launcher on the left side is important, because without that, several
other points in unity simply don't make any sense.
On Nov 30, 2011 8:16 AM, "Omar B."  wrote:

>  what do you mean "it doesnt work"?
>
> you just looked at the first screen and havent tried it.
>
> here are more screens:
>
> http://forum.ubuntu.ru/index.php?topic=171694.0
>
> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/how-to-move-unity-launcher-to-bottom-of.html
>
> but its still in dev of course.
>
>
> > From: isan...@gmail.com
> > Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:04:03 -0700
> > To: sunil.r...@gmail.com
> > CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> > Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
> >
> > What happens to the top panel with the launcher at the bottom? What
> > about the Dash window controls? Without sticking the top panel on the
> > left, I don't see how this design works.
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:01, Sunil Singh Rana 
> wrote:
> > > I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain
> > > consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really see
> much
> > > philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why
> the top
> > > panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent visual effect
> when
> > > dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows itself in the center
> of
> > > the screen, without blocking the menus and controls of the previous
> in-focus
> > > application. In the later case, I would be able to drag and drop from
> the
> > > dash to any side of the screen, and the design would look more
> symmetric.
> > >
> > > Sunil
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 18:45, Swapnil Bhartiya <
> swapnil.bhart...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it
> > >>> working:
> > >>>
> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html
> > >>>
> > >>> Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to
> > >>> activate option
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On second thoughts I believe, it's a good idea (gives some
> customisation
> > >> to users). Once at the bottom it will be just like Apple Mac's dock.
> A good
> > >> thing may be the option to place the launcher anywhere you want -
> left/right
> > >> or bottom.
> > >>
> > >> swapnil
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> > >> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> > >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> > >> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > सुनील राणा
> > >
> > > "Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to
> practice
> > > it."
> > >
> > > " 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you'
> love
> > > can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute."
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> > > Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> > > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Ian Santopietro
> >
> > Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> > See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> >
> > "Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast
> >  Ofer middangeard monnum sended"
> >
> > Pa gur yv y porthaur?
> >
> > Public GPG key (RSA):
> >
> http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x412F52DB1BBF1234
> >
> > ___
> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> > Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
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Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2011-11-30 Thread Omar B .

what do you mean "it doesnt work"?

you just looked at the first screen and havent tried it.

here are more screens:

http://forum.ubuntu.ru/index.php?topic=171694.0

http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/how-to-move-unity-launcher-to-bottom-of.html

but its still in dev of course.


> From: isan...@gmail.com
> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:04:03 -0700
> To: sunil.r...@gmail.com
> CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
> 
> What happens to the top panel with the launcher at the bottom? What
> about the Dash window controls? Without sticking the top panel on the
> left, I don't see how this design works.
> 
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:01, Sunil Singh Rana  wrote:
> > I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain
> > consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really see much
> > philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why the top
> > panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent visual effect when
> > dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows itself in the center of
> > the screen, without blocking the menus and controls of the previous in-focus
> > application. In the later case, I would be able to drag and drop from the
> > dash to any side of the screen, and the design would look more symmetric.
> >
> > Sunil
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 18:45, Swapnil Bhartiya 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it
> >>> working:
> >>> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html
> >>>
> >>> Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to
> >>> activate option
> >>
> >>
> >> On second thoughts I believe, it's a good idea (gives some customisation
> >> to users). Once at the bottom it will be just like Apple Mac's dock. A good
> >> thing may be the option to place the launcher anywhere you want - 
> >> left/right
> >> or bottom.
> >>
> >> swapnil
> >>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> >> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> >> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > सुनील राणा
> >
> > "Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice
> > it."
> >
> > " 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love
> > can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute."
> >
> > ___
> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> > Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ian Santopietro
> 
> Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
> See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
> 
> "Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast
>  Ofer middangeard monnum sended"
> 
> Pa gur yv y porthaur?
> 
> Public GPG key (RSA):
> http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x412F52DB1BBF1234
> 
> ___
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> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
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Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2011-11-29 Thread Ian Santopietro
Many Apps also use the bottom and right edges too. Totem, for example.
On Nov 29, 2011 6:02 PM, "Sunil Singh Rana"  wrote:

> Hello Friends,
> I hope all of you are having fun. :)
>
> Saving the vertical space could be a founding block, but a foundation
> should be consistent with all the foundations. we can't ignore the fact
> that most application uses the space close to left edge for navigation
> within itself; for example: back button of a browser. It is normal that
> launcher on the left will keep appearing as an uninvited guest and shall
> keep annoying. I wonder how many user actually notices the more vertical
> space available to them but I am sure many of them get annoyed with this
> unnecessary revelation of the launcher. Secondly, the top left corner
> becomes a problem to give a consistent design.
>
> It is difficult to take a completely new approach, take it as an axiom
> and, at the same time, fit it to the traditional approaches which are built
> on completely different set of axiom.
>
> I think -- I might be wrong -- most application assumes that the launcher
> would be at the bottom and this leaves the bottom side free from any button.
>
> We really need to focus on consistency and universality of the experience.
> I think these things has added plenty to the success of mac.
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 19:54, Chad M/ Germann  wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 18:31 +0100, Swapnil Bhartiya wrote:
>> > On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote:
>> > > I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it
>> working:
>> > >
>> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html
>> >
>> > That's not a very good design. The whole point of unity was to save
>> > vertical space and use horizontal space. This is quite opposite, leaving
>> > even lesser space. Instead a thinner bottom panel like LinuxMint 12 may
>> > be more 'practical' where users can see running apps and switch easily.
>>
>> that may be the case but it eliminates the strict "It mist be this way"
>> fascism that unity currently represents.
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>
>
>
> --
> सुनील राणा
>
> "Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to
> practice it."
>
> " 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you'
> love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute."
>
> ___
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
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Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2011-11-29 Thread Sunil Singh Rana
Hello Friends,
I hope all of you are having fun. :)

Saving the vertical space could be a founding block, but a foundation
should be consistent with all the foundations. we can't ignore the fact
that most application uses the space close to left edge for navigation
within itself; for example: back button of a browser. It is normal that
launcher on the left will keep appearing as an uninvited guest and shall
keep annoying. I wonder how many user actually notices the more vertical
space available to them but I am sure many of them get annoyed with this
unnecessary revelation of the launcher. Secondly, the top left corner
becomes a problem to give a consistent design.

It is difficult to take a completely new approach, take it as an axiom and,
at the same time, fit it to the traditional approaches which are built on
completely different set of axiom.

I think -- I might be wrong -- most application assumes that the launcher
would be at the bottom and this leaves the bottom side free from any button.

We really need to focus on consistency and universality of the experience.
I think these things has added plenty to the success of mac.

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 19:54, Chad M/ Germann  wrote:

> On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 18:31 +0100, Swapnil Bhartiya wrote:
> > On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote:
> > > I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it
> working:
> > >
> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html
> >
> > That's not a very good design. The whole point of unity was to save
> > vertical space and use horizontal space. This is quite opposite, leaving
> > even lesser space. Instead a thinner bottom panel like LinuxMint 12 may
> > be more 'practical' where users can see running apps and switch easily.
>
> that may be the case but it eliminates the strict "It mist be this way"
> fascism that unity currently represents.
>
>
>
> ___
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>



-- 
सुनील राणा

"Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice
it."

" 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love
can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute."
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Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2011-11-29 Thread Christian Rupp
Let's sum the things up:

It may break the current idea of unity, but not for every device we need
this horizontal space.
We give the user the choice.
the plugin shows that unity is far more customizable than many think. In
my opinion it also shows that Mint could use unity as well... but used
GS to profit from all the unity haters and in the mean time I've
customized Unity (although the whole internet says that this is
impossible). --> this may be unproductive, but I dislike GS and love
unity since my launcher is at the bottom ;) and all the great lenses of
course

And as the design team stated some time ago: We want a customizable UI
but we lack of manpower.

Yeah and if someone feels lucky he can also make it for the right side
and fix the known issues

Am 29.11.2011 19:01, schrieb Sunil Singh Rana:
> I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain
> consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really see
> much philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know
> why the top panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent
> visual effect when dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows
> itself in the center of the screen, without blocking the menus and
> controls of the previous in-focus application. In the later case, I
> would be able to drag and drop from the dash to any side of the
> screen, and the design would look more symmetric.
>
> Sunil  
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 18:45, Swapnil Bhartiya
> mailto:swapnil.bhart...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote:
>
> I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally
> got it working:
> 
> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html
>
> Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to
> activate option
>
>
> On second thoughts I believe, it's a good idea (gives some
> customisation to users). Once at the bottom it will be just like
> Apple Mac's dock. A good thing may be the option to place the
> launcher anywhere you want - left/right or bottom.
>
> swapnil
>
>
> ___
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> 
> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> 
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> 
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> ? 
>
> "Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to
> practice it."
>
> " 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you'
> love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute."
>
>
> ___
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

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Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2011-11-29 Thread Ian Santopietro
What happens to the top panel with the launcher at the bottom? What
about the Dash window controls? Without sticking the top panel on the
left, I don't see how this design works.

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:01, Sunil Singh Rana  wrote:
> I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain
> consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really see much
> philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why the top
> panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent visual effect when
> dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows itself in the center of
> the screen, without blocking the menus and controls of the previous in-focus
> application. In the later case, I would be able to drag and drop from the
> dash to any side of the screen, and the design would look more symmetric.
>
> Sunil
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 18:45, Swapnil Bhartiya 
> wrote:
>>
>> On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote:
>>>
>>> I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it
>>> working:
>>> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html
>>>
>>> Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to
>>> activate option
>>
>>
>> On second thoughts I believe, it's a good idea (gives some customisation
>> to users). Once at the bottom it will be just like Apple Mac's dock. A good
>> thing may be the option to place the launcher anywhere you want - left/right
>> or bottom.
>>
>> swapnil
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>> Post to     : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
>
>
> --
> सुनील राणा
>
> "Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice
> it."
>
> " 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love
> can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute."
>
> ___
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> Post to     : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>



-- 
Ian Santopietro

Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments.
See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html

"Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast
 Ofer middangeard monnum sended"

Pa gur yv y porthaur?

Public GPG key (RSA):
http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x412F52DB1BBF1234

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Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2011-11-29 Thread Chad M/ Germann
On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 18:31 +0100, Swapnil Bhartiya wrote:
> On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote:
> > I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working:
> > http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html
> 
> That's not a very good design. The whole point of unity was to save 
> vertical space and use horizontal space. This is quite opposite, leaving 
> even lesser space. Instead a thinner bottom panel like LinuxMint 12 may 
> be more 'practical' where users can see running apps and switch easily.

that may be the case but it eliminates the strict "It mist be this way"
fascism that unity currently represents. 



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Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2011-11-29 Thread frederik.nn...@gmail.com
On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 19:01, Sunil Singh Rana wrote:

> I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain
> consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really see much
> philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why the top
> panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent visual effect when
> dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows itself in the center of
> the screen, without blocking the menus and controls of the previous
> in-focus application. In the later case, I would be able to drag and drop
> from the dash to any side of the screen, and the design would look more
> symmetric.
>
> Sunil
>

good points.
I'm having nothing but annoyances with the left-hand-side launcher.
on the long run i'd prefer the dash to do everything for me, it would have
a gesture-activated ALT-TAB-like mode, which would then replace the
Launcher altogether.
And then the launcher API with the progress bars and all the fancy dynamic
indication stuff would start to make sense to me.
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Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2011-11-29 Thread Sunil Singh Rana
I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain
consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really see much
philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why the top
panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent visual effect when
dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows itself in the center of
the screen, without blocking the menus and controls of the previous
in-focus application. In the later case, I would be able to drag and drop
from the dash to any side of the screen, and the design would look more
symmetric.

Sunil

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 18:45, Swapnil Bhartiya
wrote:

> On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote:
>
>> I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it
>> working:
>> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/**11/install-ubuntu-unity-**
>> bottom-launcher.html
>>
>> Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to
>> activate option
>>
>
> On second thoughts I believe, it's a good idea (gives some customisation
> to users). Once at the bottom it will be just like Apple Mac's dock. A good
> thing may be the option to place the launcher anywhere you want -
> left/right or bottom.
>
> swapnil
>
>
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Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2011-11-29 Thread Marco Biscaro

Em 29-11-2011 15:45, Swapnil Bhartiya escreveu:

On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote:
I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it 
working:

http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html

Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to
activate option


On second thoughts I believe, it's a good idea (gives some 
customisation to users). Once at the bottom it will be just like Apple 
Mac's dock. A good thing may be the option to place the launcher 
anywhere you want - left/right or bottom.


swapnil
I've looked the code and seen that it's another plugin for compiz. This 
means two completly distinct code paths (the official unityshell and the 
unityshell-rotated).


It would be very hard to maintain two distinct plugins in code base. If 
this were an option to the official plugin, the chances of being 
approved in the codebase would be greater. However, I don't know how 
complex it would be to convert this to an option.


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Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2011-11-29 Thread Swapnil Bhartiya

On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote:

I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working:
http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html

Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to
activate option


On second thoughts I believe, it's a good idea (gives some customisation 
to users). Once at the bottom it will be just like Apple Mac's dock. A 
good thing may be the option to place the launcher anywhere you want - 
left/right or bottom.


swapnil

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Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom

2011-11-29 Thread Swapnil Bhartiya

On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote:

I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working:
http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html


That's not a very good design. The whole point of unity was to save 
vertical space and use horizontal space. This is quite opposite, leaving 
even lesser space. Instead a thinner bottom panel like LinuxMint 12 may 
be more 'practical' where users can see running apps and switch easily.


Just .02 cents.

Swapnil




Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to
activate option




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